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Kris
January 10th, 2004, 01:44 AM
January 10, 2004

Ethnic Friction Over Signs That Lack Translations

By COREY KILGANNON

Should stores in ethnic neighborhoods be allowed to have signs with no English on them?

That delicate issue was revisited yesterday in Flushing, Queens, which has received an influx of Koreans in recent years; a bustling stretch of Northern Boulevard could briefly be mistaken for a commercial strip in Seoul. Most of the businesses have signs emblazoned with large Korean letters. Some have no English words, and some have messages in fragmented English that give no clue to a business's nature.

A task force led by City Councilman John Liu of Flushing announced yesterday that the problem was not serious enough to warrant a new city law requiring some English on signs. The task force, which includes other local elected officials and civic leaders, surveyed 293 businesses along a stretch of Northern Boulevard from Main to 162nd Street. It found that only 5 percent of the stores had signs bearing no English. Twelve percent had English words that were not descriptive of the businesses.

But some people disagree.

"Look at that sign," said Ken Westerfield, 38, of Whitestone, who stood on the boulevard yesterday pointing to a large Korean-language sign next to a supermarket. Its only English words were "Now" and "24 Hours." "You tell me what that sign is for," Mr. Westerfield said. "I can't figure it out." He added that the sign controversy has highlighted ethnic discord between Korean immigrants and longtime white residents of Queens.

"A lot of white people who've grown up here resent Koreans setting up businesses that sell only to other Koreans, buy from other Koreans and do business only with other Koreans," he said. "They ruin the economy for regular Americans."

City law does not require storefront signs to be written in English, a spokeswoman for the City Buildings Department said yesterday. But Councilman Tony Avella, who represents part of the Korean area of Flushing, said he was preparing a bill requiring all signs in the city to be "at least half in English."

In September, Mr. Avella set off a controversy by opposing a Korean-language billboard in Flushing advertising a car service. At the time, he cited a 1909 state law requiring some English on signs. Yesterday, task force members called the law unenforceable. Mr. Avella agreed. He was not at the news conference yesterday, but in a phone interview, he said, "I have no intention of backing off" and called signs with no English "a form of discrimination."

"There's an awful lot of people who feel very strongly about this," he said. "I don't think there's racism here, but people really feel discriminated against when they suddenly see a store sign in the neighborhood they grew up in, and can't understand it. The obvious response is to say, `They don't want me in their store; they don't want me here.' "

Mr. Liu said his office had received hundreds of calls complaining about signs with no English, as well as complaints about all-English signs with no Korean. Instead of legislation, he advocated educating and assisting business owners regarding their signs. He compared the issue to Yiddish signs on the Lower East Side a century ago and Russian signs in the Brighton Beach neighborhood in Brooklyn today.

Most larger businesses on Northern Boulevard, like the Seoul Plaza shopping center, have signs with English translations.

In the Tipperary Arms, an Irish pub nestled among many Korean businesses on Northern Boulevard, a group of customers grumbled about how their families had to Americanize when they immigrated. But Koreans avoid mingling outside their community, they said.

"You don't see a Gaelic sign on this bar, do you?" said Al Antretter, 63, a veteran and longtime Flushing resident. "It's not about the signs themselves. It's about the Koreans coming to this country and starting their businesses, but they don't want to deal with us or our language. They don't even want our business. I say, `You're in America, speak English.' "

Asked about such attitudes yesterday, one task force member, State Assemblyman Brian M. McLaughlin, said, "Change is often hard for many people to accept."

Nyung Park, an owner of Jangsoo Stone Bed and Furniture, which sells beds made of heated onyx and jade and has descriptive English on its sign, said she welcomed customers of all ethnicities.

"I think all store signs, it's good to have English," she said. "You get more customers."

Copyright 2004 The New York Times Company

Kris
January 17th, 2004, 09:38 AM
January 17, 2004

Signs Without English (2 Letters)

To the Editor:

Re "Ethnic Friction Over Signs That Lack Translations" (news article, Jan. 10):

If stores in ethnic neighborhoods really could benefit financially from bilingual signs, then there is economic advantage and they will prosper or perish accordingly.

But let's not fool ourselves. Some specialty businesses attract customers only from a very specific national background. No amount of English would change that.

Some say they can no longer determine what a business is selling. Ridiculous! Go inside. Look around.

Do we want a government-backed language police? There are signs on subway trains written entirely in Spanish. Where is the outrage? Many bodegas sell food with labels only in Spanish. Oh, my!

I suggest that we do not want more laws about awnings. We want businesses in New York to prosper. No one can seriously claim that he feels left out because of single-language signs. Can one's self-esteem be so brittle?

DON MACFARLANE
Brooklyn, Jan. 11, 2004



To the Editor:

Re "Ethnic Friction Over Signs That Lack Translations" (news article, Jan. 10):

How far does the "You're in America, speak English" camp want to go? Must Le Cirque and Café des Artistes translate their names or state their business in English? And what about those pesky French words on their menus?

Is it all languages we're talking about here, or just some?

PENNY LIU
Darien, Conn., Jan. 10, 2004

Copyright 2004 The New York Times Company

Edward
January 17th, 2004, 01:05 PM
And what about those pesky French words on their menus?


Those definitely have to be translated. I always have to ask the waiter to translate. :)

ZippyTheChimp
January 17th, 2004, 02:06 PM
"They ruin the economy for regular Americans."
Yup, it's always good to be regular. :P

Main St Flushing is a teeming neighborhood, added to by the fact that it's the terminus of the #7 subway. The Korean signage is just as much in character as it is in Chinatown. It's easy enough to figure out what the stores sell.

Friends took us to a great Dim Sum place, across the street from the municipal parking garage, 39th Ave I think.

Ninjahedge
January 21st, 2004, 04:12 PM
I know I am going to get shot for this, but I kind of get annoyed at the feeling of being "invaded" myself. The non-integration of immigrants does not serve anything more than the fracturing of communities. You want to site examples of how NYC was in the 1900's as being a GOOD thing? Come on, it was nowhere near a bed of roses in this splintered town.

I do not believe it should be exclusionary in any way, but I get all sorts of funny looks being one of the only caucasions in the Market in Flushing (you know the one, right next to Pho Bang and the other restaurants...). I get the same looks from people when I go down to Mott street. Why? Because I am only 1 caucasion out of 100 people on the street walking around a neighborhood that has little, if any english available.

Yes, I am welcome, but not including my language does not make me feel this way.

Also, if this is not the case, why do people feel the same way when there is NO Korean on some of the signs?

I don't know, this bothers me in more than one arena. The Russian in Brooklyn bothered me years ago, and the Spanish in Hoboken and Jersey City (Ads all in Sapnish) bother me now. The more I look, the more I see English being ignored.

So what language should I learn? I want to go anywhere in america, I don't want to have to learn 4 different languages just to get things in NYC....

(Yes I know I can go elsewhere, but why?)

TLOZ Link5
January 21st, 2004, 05:41 PM
This is not an issue of race or prejudice, but if you're going to emigrate to a country, you ought to make an effort to learn the language of the majority of its inhabitants. If I moved to Paris, I wouldn't expect anyone to make concessions toward my inability to speak French.