Atlantic City Seeks New Image: Las Vegas's

[MidtownGuy]

The facts are the facts. You can use labels like "extremist" but that doesn't change them.

[zipburn]

They are manipulated statistics as listed on that same site in the small print... show me a respectable source, then I might consider it as fact. The question if your so big on irrational spending, why do you use democrat talking points? Question do you believe what the democrats say, on drilling for oil? That the price will only decrease $0.01 in twenty years? Or that the government is in the business to make "green" (the biggest farce ever) jobs? It's funny hearing how the war wasn't justified? The 100,000 dead kurds killed by Saddam didn't matter. The only people that mattered were in Serbia when Clinton was president. It doesn't matter that Saddam was responsible for the Pan Am Flight 830 bombing that exploded just before it landed in Honolulu. It doesn't matter that almost every nation has the same intelligence estimate, and these same people who said BUSH LIES! are the same people seen in press quotes that Saddam needs to go. It doesn't matter that after mistakenly reporting that saddam wasn't seeking enriched uranium from northern africa, 8 months later they confirmed that indeed Saddam's son made trips to Sudan in effort to get the uranium. Of course this recieved little news, unlike the bush lies news. Now your going to paint me as a racist, even though I used no skin colors in my commentary. You did though! It's funny everyone thinks the world hates the US but the fact is two PRO-BUSH presidents just got elected over PRO-LIBERAL ones in Germany and France. Hmm.. ever wonder what side the big mouth protesters are on, that are always quoted in the so called "news"? Here's a hint they are the same side as the ones in the US. The WRONG SIDE! It's really hard to believe how many people have no backbone now a days.. more americans die in democrat philadelphia, and obamanation chicago per day then over 130,000 troops do in iraq.

side note: I'm from NJ so this is fun and games for me, I hope you dont take it personal

[Fabrizio]

"The 100,000 dead kurds killed by Saddam didn't matter..."

Tell us about the day you suddenly started caring about Kurds. Or the well-being of Iraqis? Honestly, between you and me ...whether they have freedom or not, I don't give a ratz asp. Do you? Can you even find Kurdistan on a map? Kurds, for me, are in cottage cheese.

Serbia, being in Europe however, DOES pull a different weight, historically and culturally.

In this day and age of space satellites that can read the label on your underwear, Sadam could have been monitored and contained. The US is wealthy and strong... the last thing it needs to do, is to go into war with these crazys. Use intellegence, coups and assasinations. If a handful of losers could change the course of the US with a couple of box-cutters, then the US could have taken out Sadaam, and taken over the oil fields, with an equally ingenious strategy. Something with a little elegance and style. That these nuts are allowed to kill American boys is sinful.

And instead of building infrastructure for Muslims in Iraq... why not do it for Americans in the good old USA. Suggestion: How about a train from NYC to AC? It should be no sweat.

---

It's funny everyone thinks the world hates the US but the fact is two PRO-BUSH presidents just got elected over PRO-LIBERAL ones in Germany and France.

Wrong again. Conservative officials in Europe have been voted-in because of one reason: immigration policies.

Rest assured: the world still hates Bush... almost as much as the average American does:

http://edition.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/05/01/bush.poll/

-----

Yep, it's a Bush lovin' Germany:
http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/01/06/europe/berlin.php

---

[American Gaming Guru]

From today's Press:

Victory for some in fight vs. eminent domain in Atlantic City

By MICHAEL CLARK Staff Writer, 609-272-7204
Published: Thursday, June 19, 2008





http://media.pressofatlanticcity.com/smedia/2008/06/19/08/41-pinnacleproperty.thumb.prod_affiliate.101.jpg (http://media.pressofatlanticcity.com/smedia/2008/06/19/08/118-pinnacleproperty.standalone.prod_affiliate.101.jpg ) GRAPHIC: Click on the image above for a larger view




ATLANTIC CITY - Vincent Barth's efforts to avoid his property being taken through eminent domain appeared to be all but futile until Wednesday's Planning Board meeting.

Over the past seven months of hearings, experts hired by Pinnacle Entertainment fought Barth's arguments. His attorney, William Potter, battled bitterly with a Planning Board frustrated with seven months of hearings.
Potter didn't even bother showing up for the board's vote Wednesday morning, assuming it would go unanimously against his client.
But at the last minute, Planning Director William Crane recommended the exemption of a few lots within the area targeted for redevelopment, designed to allow Pinnacle to expand its property for a $1.5 billion casino project. Among those excluded was Barth's Park Lane Apartment Hotel.
"This is not what I expected," he said after the hearing. "I'm safe."

However, the individual victories of Barth and others were the exception, as other owners met with disappointment.

Quang Ha, the owner of Kim Son Jewelry, was not excluded in the plan.
"Right now it looks to me like a curious attempt to carve out one of my clients but not the other," said Potter, a Princeton-based attorney representing both men. "It's definitely appropriate to carve out the Park Lane hotel, but to separate the two is arbitrary and capricious."
Ha, who speaks little English, said he plans to continue fighting the redevelopment plan.
The Planning Board's vote acts as a recommendation to City Council, which will form its own resolution to determine whether the area should be designated as blighted, and therefore in need of redevelopment. If passed, the measure would authorize the city to acquire the targeted properties, regardless of the owners' will.
Appeals would be heard in state Superior Court and would have to be filed no later than 45 days after City Council's bill was passed.
"If this case goes up to court, a judge is going to reverse the decision for the entire area," Potter said.
The vote left Pinnacle with less land than it had hoped to acquire, but left company officials reasonably content with the result.
"We're generally pleased with the Planning Board and we hope the City Council will agree," said Pinnacle spokesman Carl Zeitz, stressing what he characterized as the positive impact the casino would have on the surrounding Boardwalk properties and the city overall.
The redevelopment area originally consisted of four city blocks. The L-shaped area stretched along the beach block from Indiana Avenue to Kentucky Avenue and extended to Atlantic Avenue. However, the board exempted two separate portions along Atlantic and Pacific avenues Wednesday.
Zeitz said Pinnacle is accustomed to adapting to change and is confident with the land they have to work with.
"Building a project as big and important as this, your plans are always changing," Zeitz said. "Plans have been changing from the get-go."
One major alteration was Pinnacle's announcement in February that the credit crisis is preventing the $1.5 billion project from progressing. Pinnacle officials have since conceded that the property may be sold and the company could scrap plans to build in Atlantic City.
Among the other properties spared Wednesday were Pacific Avenue neighbors Fischer's Flowers and a business building owned by Councilman John Schultz, which formerly housed an abortion clinic before health violations led to its closing.
The property of Nael Zumot, who owns Atlantic Avenue's Center City Deli, also was excluded from the plan, avoiding another forced relocation for his business. His deli was once located about two blocks east at 1503 Atlantic Ave., but the Casino Reinvestment Development Authority pushed him out with a $110,000 buyout.
Zumot was one of several business owners who stormed City Hall in March, armed with signed petitions. Audrey Anderson, owner of Ms. Audrey's Human Connection on Atlantic Avenue, led that charge and had guaranteed victory.
"I told you we'd win," Anderson said after the hearing.
Mayor Scott Evans, who pledged his support for the city's targeted business owners, entered the meeting only briefly during preliminary discussions before the vote. He then left and did not return until immediately after the vote.
Potter cited the mayor's support while claiming he is aware of three councilmen who would oppose any measure that could lead to eminent domain. However, he said he was not certain of their names.
"They need to break with the past and not do Pinnacle's bidding for them," he said of the resort's legislators. "That's what we are going to argue to City Council, and we'll argue it in court if we have to."
To e-mail Michael Clark at The Press: Michael.Clark@pressofac.com (Michael.Clark@pressofac.com)

[AC11]

I hate to do it, but I have to put in my two cents on the politics discussion that has come about before I get back to AC.

Some of the best transportation systems in the world belong to those "liberal" European countries. The US is way behind in that area, which is why the $4 gas is hurting so much. Drilling for more oil is like putting a band-aid on a gunshot wound. The bottom line is that we need the the federal government to invest in new railroads and other transportation systems that actually work properly, to get away from the mindset that only poor people use public transit, and reduce our oil consumption. It would be like FDR's "New Deal." AC could be a huge beneficiary of this kind of project, because of the huge population here in the northeast.

Anyway...back to AC...

Sabatini's and the neighboring stores are coming down. This opens up more space for Trump Plaza to do something, although I have heard nothing.
http://www.11floor.com/ACphotos/IMG_0139.jpg

Also...here are some pics of the boardwalk side of the Chelsea. The ground level shops were part of the facade project. Unfortunately, the Chelsea doesn't have a Boardwalk entrance to make use of these new facades.
http://www.11floor.com/ACphotos/IMG_0141.jpg
http://www.11floor.com/ACphotos/IMG_0143.JPG

[acplayer]

Nice photos AC11. Sabatini's was a perfectly fine building with street level pedestrian appeal. What a shame. A.C. has very poor planning and no vision. Also, for as much as Trump is supposed to be a showman, I've seen very little showman ship, vision or imagination. If Trump had vision he'd turn Steel Pier back into the 'Showplace of the Nation' it once was. He could have a Circue du Soleil type acrobatic water show at the end of the pier, have a performing arts and music venue over the ocean, etc... this isn't even visionary. Just like the Chelsea, back to the basics.

End of Steel Pier 1959
http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh72/acplayerr/acdivinghorse1959.jpg
http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh72/acplayerr/acsteelpiercircus1959.jpg
http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh72/acplayerr/acsteelpiercircus21959.jpg

[Fabrizio]

Also, for as much as Trump is supposed to be a showman, I've seen very little showman ship, vision or imagination. If Trump had vision he'd turn Steel Pier back into the 'Showplace of the Nation' it once was. He could have a Circue du Soleil type acrobatic water show at the end of the pier, have a performing arts and music venue over the ocean, etc... this isn't even visionary. Just like the Chelsea, back to the basics.


YES!

I don't know where you are getting the great photos you post... but please keep them coming.

That first photo is soooo damn exotic. I love the lobster vs. the diving horse vs. the seals.
That was AC back then... a wonderland, with it's own odd culture.

I remember dinner as a teen at Sabatini's when it first opened in the 1970's, a few years before gambling.

----

This is the Steel Pier in the mid 1960's... as I remember it as a child. The lighting on the boardwalk rivaled TimesSquare. Can you blame me for being pissed at the knuckle heads who have ruined this city?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v33/ronaldo/ac_steelpier8_560.jpg

And speaking of opening up the Dennis to the boardwalk: this is what it used to be like. Umbellas and tables...the scene is more France or Italy than South Jersey. Can you believe the idiots at Balley's painted this magnificent piece of architecture in electric-blue, and covered it with their squalid "WildWest" bull crap?:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v33/ronaldo/ac_hotels_dennis3_560.jpg

What is especially amazing is those two scenes, though two very different worlds, both co-existed on the glorious boardwalk.


---

[AC11]

Check out the www.thenewtaj.com (http://www.thenewtaj.com)
It is all about the chairman tower.
My thoughts on the chairman tower is that it is out of place, and looks totally out of context where it is. It seems to make no reference to the existing Taj tower...not when considering how the Water Club interacts with Borgata and The Waterfront with the rest of Harrahs.

-but-

These renderings make an otherwise ordinary tower look pretty extraordinary.
More on the site.
http://www.thenewtaj.com/downloads/detail1tower.jpg
http://www.thenewtaj.com/downloads/chairmanSuiteTv.jpg

[MidtownGuy]

The old photos look so beautiful. The chairs and umbrellas next to the sea with flowers, and look at that building in the left corner, very charmimg!
What a shame there is such a lack of vision down there. I don't see why casinos and that sort of thing can't coexist.
I have never been to AC, but if it looked like the old pictures on this thread(with new casinos and towers intelligently mixed in) and there were high speed rail links to NYC, I would certainly be a visitor, as would plenty of other urbanites who have money to spend but don't want to be bothered with a car or the hassles of airports for such a short flight.
The northeast corridor needs efficient rail connections between major adjacent cities like Europe and Asia have.
Going to other cities so close to us like Atlantic City or Boston should be way more convenient. It's good for everything, including the economy. Places like Atlantic City could only benefit.

[MidtownGuy]

Nice room:), now that's something Vegas will never have- a big shimmering ocean view.

[acplayer]

Hi Fabrizio, I get the same feelings when you see what A.C. once was and what it has become. I'm too young to have experienced A.C. in it's Golden Years but a picture says a thousand words plus my Mom & Dad grew up there and I've heard all the stories about what a wonderful place it was to grow up. Relating to Sabatini's being unneccessarily demolished, not too long ago, Pacific Ave had No empty lots, parking garages etc... but was lined with ground floor retail, restaurants, etc... with people living above. Imagine that. Now there's no reason to be walking the sidewalks.

Pacific Ave 1968
http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh72/acplayerr/acpacificave1968.jpg

[American Gaming Guru]

I love it too ACplayer! Keep them coming! BTW, I too have my disappointments about Trump's investments in AC but he actually did try to bring the Steel Pier back (I believe it was Mark Etess' idea). He brought back the diving horse (I think it was a donkey) but animal rights groups went nuts and he had to discontinue it.

With that said, I think the current carnival of a pier is a bit trashy but could be so much more than it is.

On the Chairman's Tower....Agreed. I really wish that it was in synch with the original tower. I think the new tower is more TRUMP. Lets not forget that Donald bought the Taj (under construction at the time) and the original tower was already up.

[ZippyTheChimp]

Can you even find Kurdistan on a map? Kurds, for me, are in cottage cheese.

Little Miss Muffet...

The technology that was supposed to make young adults more astute, diversify their tastes, and improve their verbal skills has had the opposite effect. According to recent reports, most young people in the United States do not read literature, visit museums, or vote. They cannot explain basic scientific methods, recount basic American history, name their local political representatives, or locate Iraq or Israel on a map.
The Dumbest Generation (http://www.amazon.com/Dumbest-Generation-Stupefies-Americans-Jeopardizes/dp/1585426393)

[Fabrizio]

Re Pacific Ave: I lived for about 6 months right there on Pacific in a building covered by that street sign. That's the library on the extreme left. Just on that small stretch of Pacific you can see a bar, an optician, a florist shop (Fischer's), motels... to the left of "the Sorrento" was the "The Gem" a great Jewish deli style restaurant with unbelievable corned beef. The post office (with 1930's WPA murals on the walls) is behind that woman in the forground. The phone company building was just up ahead.

[pianoman11686]

RE: some of those old pictures...

Wow, it really looked like a city back then! A real place, postcard-worthy. Last time I was there, it looked like a few big hotels in the middle of an abandoned ghost town.

[66nexus]

Hey Fab on the Bally's we certainly agree. I cannot understand (and never will) the Wild West...I mean...c'mon.

I'm glad the new Chairman Tower isn't in sync with the Taj because I actually think the Taj is ugly (more so the ground-level facade fronting the Boardwalk) The Chairman Tower is more sophisticated

[66nexus]

RE: some of those old pictures...

Wow, it really looked like a city back then! A real place, postcard-worthy. Last time I was there, it looked like a few big hotels in the middle of an abandoned ghost town.

.......Vegas...?

[JCexpert558]

Hi Fabrizio, I get the same feelings when you see what A.C. once was and what it has become. I'm too young to have experienced A.C. in it's Golden Years but a picture says a thousand words plus my Mom & Dad grew up there and I've heard all the stories about what a wonderful place it was to grow up. Relating to Sabatini's being unneccessarily demolished, not too long ago, Pacific Ave had No empty lots, parking garages etc... but was lined with ground floor retail, restaurants, etc... with people living above. Imagine that. Now there's no reason to be walking the sidewalks.

Pacific Ave 1968
http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh72/acplayerr/acpacificave1968.jpg
Yah I know that Atlantic City was more lively back then, but I think that It will become that again later on. So what AC is now is just in it's early stages of what it will be in the not to far future

[Fabrizio]

Great! Could you please show us how this will be done with current building methods that are giving us blank walls, parking garages and so forth? Will you please point out one new casino development that encourages a lively, real city street? I'm interested in seeing the city's master plan that requires casinos to build street level retail spaces. Apart from the outlet&chain-store strip-mall that is "The Walk", can you point out one up-and-coming neighboorhood worth visiting? Do you honestly think "Pacific Avenue", the closest street parallel to the Boardwalk, will once again be worth a stroll?

Actually today's AC, with more visitors year-round, is probably "livelier" now that it was back then ....but not on it's city streets.

---

[66nexus]

^Who said it can never be?

Is it that just because nothing is in the pipeline means that nothing will ever be? Even with all the development, AC is just starting to realize itself. To expect AC to already have this stuff on the way is jumping the gun IMO.

one must consider its tiny population.

You said it yourself, the Chelsea's orientation to city streets is a welcome change to the usual casino stuff.

[zipburn]

The biggest difference between now and then.. is the fact that crime and failure to rebrand ac led to its demise. It has destroyed these areas shown in pictures not to mention atlantic city isn't home to a major corp. that offers more upperlevel income jobs.. I see the ducktown area is getting better in terms of quality. We can keep living in the past but every dog has it day.. the old Atlantic City brand died, it was forced to change and that included removing old buildings. They saved what they could but failure to rebrand Atlantic City cost it. The city is building itself up, it will take time but it is progressing. More housing is needed to attract the executives that now live outside the city. When these new casinos come on-line, pressure will mount to remove stanley holmes and other trash will be gobbled up by developers. AC is rising it's only a matter of time before AC is better than Vegas. Vegas peaked a year or so ago its AC's time now.

[Fabrizio]

AC did rebrand itself in 1978 ...with the advent of gambling. It was supposed to be the LasVegas of the East. Unfortunately no real strategy was in place for the city to achieve that goal. Everything was left up to corporations, the free market, politicians and policy makers that could be bought. The city went from being a rundown seaside resort, to being a rundown seaside resort with casinos. While Vegas moved ahead by developing a broader based appeal, AC seemed largely content with bussed in daytrippers.

It took AC 25 years to finally get something world-class like the Borgata.... and the city on a whole, is still pretty awful.

AC is attemptig to rebrand it's self again by going up-scale, but these things really don't work to their full potential unless there is creative vision, intellegent planning, zoning, guidelines etc. And that's not really happening on a large scale.

AC will surely come around... but I think in a very uninteresting way. It will mostly be the fortress-style Casino/Hotel with patrons being wisked in and off the island.

The Boardwalk will certainly continue to improve. There is an attempt to re-style a stretch of Atlantic Avenue. The Walk will expand. More housing will be built.

But none of this has the feel of being stitched together into an attractive whole. I see no attempt at really creating a new downtown, office complexes, art & cultural facilities (the stuff of a real city)... as Vegas is doing. Yes, AC is tiny in comparison, but even a little would go a long way. Remember that AC, in it's hey-day, was a small but "real" city.

But my bet is that development, though more tasteful and luxurious, is going to continue as it has been: haphazard and chock-a-block... another wasted opportunity.

---

[pianoman11686]

.......Vegas...?

Um, no.

[66nexus]

Um, no.

Let me guess, desert is paradise...?

The Strip is nice, but that's pretty much it

[pianoman11686]

The Strip is much more substantial than the Boardwalk. And Las Vegas is much more substantial than Atlantic City.

Don't get me wrong, the majority of Las Vegas is sprawling crap, but then again, so is Phoenix. The point is it doesn't feel like a ghost town. It's a bustling, significant city apart from the Strip.

[giselehaslice]

Everyone on this board pretty much lives in the past. THE PAST IS DEAD. Atlantic City did have a wonderful past, but it's gone now. Instead of dwelling on how much everyone messed everything up, lets focus on what can be done about it. Thanks.

And for Vegas, yeah the strip is awesome, but if you think that it is a great city... the whole thing looks like a more crowded, less cultured and way more cookie cutter version of East Brunswick. Not a great city, just one huge neighborhood of 2 million people.

PS.. I'm not making fun of East Brunswick, just saying that EB is probably more cultured than LV.

[Fabrizio]

This thread is filled with ideas of what can be done for a better AC.

[zipburn]

tom carver(head of CRDA) was on pinky's show today, he said they are looking to add a park from the light house to the inlet, they acquired most of the land but are waiting to relocate the jitney station...also i believe there is a condo about to break ground(well pilings are already in the ground) right next to the ocean terrace which is on new hampshire ave near gardners basin

[American Gaming Guru]

I did hear Pinky's show yesterday. Great plan on the CRDA's part. The area that the Jitney station is in could really use improvement.

Did you hear the gentleman that called in about the squalid conditions of the Water Side as well? Ironic since we had a discussion going on about its future not too long ago on this website.

Also, the pilings for that building that you see have been there for quite a while. I believe the developer ran out of money. I would not expect any major new condo towers to be built in the city until the credit markets loosen up.

I am heading to the Water Club this weekend for the ribbon cutting. I will try and take pics of the Water Club and a few other buildings that we all seem interested in.

[zipburn]

I heard the caller about the waterside, its good thing that something is happening to that thing...

A new sign was just put up on that site, and its says coming soon... including a picture of the building, if anything is going to be built I'm not sure but usually they don't put coming soon if they aren't going to start construction. Is it possible the lot was sold or acquired?

[American Gaming Guru]

I am pretty sure The Water Side was sold about a year ago (perhaps a bit more than that). The group that sold it was predominately into affordable or low income housing, so it is not surprising the state that it is in.

My concern is that the new company that owns it does not have the experience or financing to accomplish what they have proposed. Additionally, that area really needs to be improved before luxury condos could be marketable there.

[Fabrizio]

I am curious to know: what are the very top condo buildings in Atlantic City, and what are prices going for? Top townhouse development? Thanks.

[giselehaslice]

I'm not sure about Condos, but I'm pretty sure theres a development called Aquella where townhomes are priced from about 1.5 million to I think about 3 million.

[AC11]

The ocean club is one of the top luxury buildings in the city. These pictures below are of one of the nicer units that is going for $1.5m. Average cost there for a 2br unit is about $600k.

The Bella is trying to position themselves as a luxury building, but I don't think they are selling very well. It is in the middle of Revel's construction site and a run down neighborhood.

Other nice condos in AC are the Enclave, The Berkley, and the Plaza. All on the boardwalk south of Albany Ave.

http://www.oceanclubrealty.com/images/properties/1204302820.jpg
http://www.oceanclubrealty.com/images/properties/1204302925.jpg
http://www.oceanclubrealty.com/images/properties/1204303045.jpg

[zipburn]

This is the site I was mentioning that just put up new signage, its called Reflections the developer is Lennar Homes.. at the end of 2007 Lennar dumped 11,000 sites around the country including in NJ and they formed a joint venture with a Morgan Stanley subsidiary... is it possible the AC location is part of this JV? This would give lennar the financing needed to complete this project.. also I don't know if anyone else heard but the borgata had its biggest day ever this past friday, i guess its not that big of a suprise considering that they added a lux hotel to their property

[acplayer]

I have some update photos to add but I thought some folks would like to see the hotel, The Rudolph Hotel, that was originally on the Revel site directly in front of the Garden Pier before the Breakers was built.

http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh72/acplayerr/acrudolphhotel.jpg

[Intheknow]

It appears as Curtis Bashaws plans for a Boutique Casino have fallen through. He is quoted as saying the credit markets are choppy and he doesn't think his group will develope Casino. I never thought he was going to actually develope anything in that area of Albany Ave. He is still moving forward with permits and zoning etc.. then he will try to flip the land. The properties he "bought" in the area were never actually bought. He has options to buy some of the condos and Knife and Fork but no money has changed hands. As the former head of the CRDA I thought the whole deal was shady to begin with. The moving of the Knife and Fork and WWI Monument will never happen and should never have been considered. The park and adjoining streets are the nicest parts of AC. Haven't the Casinos done enough damage to historic AC?

[Intheknow]

The latest rumor is that Stephen Starr has backed out of the Chelsea deal. I don't know how true this is but the goings are slow on Chelsea Ave. The area surrounding it need a major clean-up, I doubt the City can handle it, they appear to be pretty inept to say the least. One can only hope the Chelsea opens soon the area could use a boost I doubt it will become the Hamptons of AC until the City decides to clean the streets, boardwalk, and beach. Bashaws buddies from NY may visit once but not twice.

[giselehaslice]

Where are you getting this false information? I mean I can see maybe the casino rumor being true, but about Steven Starr backing out of the Chelsea...I dont beleive it. Someone who has definatley committed to a project that has been relatively publisized would'nt back out so randomly. It doesnt make sence at all....

[66nexus]

I'm with gisel on this one,

intheknow do you have any links or excerpts from articles so we could get a closer look at what you're talking about? Definitely ain't calling you a liar, but definitely don't believe the claims either

[zipburn]

July 18 is the set date for the ribbon cutting at the Chelsea, plus that area you are talking about is crime free, clean and has little to no housing over there, so I really don't know what your talking about. Obviouslly you have be misinformed maybe you should get a new source because you obviously aren't "in the know".

[kliq6]

Zipburns quote: "AC is rising it's only a matter of time before AC is better than Vegas. Vegas peaked a year or so ago its AC's time now".

Sorry but AC is never going to be bigger then Vegas for gaming customers. Its casinos are decent but only Borgata and Water Club stand out.

[Intheknow]

Zipburn, The only clean spot in Ac is O'Donnell Memorial Park. Try walking by the Chelsea after 10 p.m. you will be accousted by prostitutes and drug dealers. The Flamingo Hotel is a dump and the "lite" section of the Chelsea overlooks it.
As for Stephen Starr, it's a rumor I believe. The Chelsea was supposed to have a soft opening in June, well they better hussle. As for the ribbon cutting on July 18th-the hotel will not be open, try booking a room. Idoubt the restaurants and club will be completed. Bashaw is rushing the job which is never a good thing. The summer season has started and the Chelsea has yet to make a nickel in profit, the first year is going to be very difficult.
June revenue #'s for the Casinos will be way down, mark my words. I can see it and the Casino employees tell me this will be the case.
As for Bashaw/Barr Casino, it will never happen. They have yet to secure financing. The permit and other needs are moving forward, this is just so Bashaw can flip the land. He states he has "bought" all the necessary land in the area but no money has changed hands, and if it does it won't be until October. I'm all for development, but Bashaw and Barr have no intentions of building a Casino, the plans are all conceptual which means they want to make a quick buck at the costs to the AC taxpayers. The dopes in AC government are falling for this scam, hey more kickbacks for them.
AC needs to clean the City, boardwalk and beach all easily attainable but with nothing in it for them I doubt it will ever happen.

[Fabrizio]

Casino revenues down: in this economy that's not so surprising.. you weather the storm... actually high gas prices will probably only help AC. And anyway didn't someone here mention that the Borgata recently had it's best month ever? It's the tired old places that will probably most feel the pinch.

Starr leaving... hotel not finished... what else is new? Projects often have rocky starts. It happens. But the concept and and the people behind it sound solid. The kinks will be worked out. It'll open.

Chelsea: It IS a dump. A potentially great neighborhood but the AC gov. and populace have zero vision. I've heard of no programs in place to guide the development of this area.

"Bashaws buddies from NY may visit once but not twice."

I agree. AC is not ready for prime time. But I think the Chelsea Hotel will be a hit with certain S.Jersey and Philly crowds ...and that's not such a bad thing. And they already know AC is a dump.

[American Gaming Guru]

I too, do not believe that Steven Starr has backed out. Yes, it appears that The Chelsea is behind schedule, but as many of us on here know, the original time-line was unrealistic to begin with. That and some unforeseen circumstances that is common with rehab jobs.

I think The Chelsea will be a hit. The ribbon cutting I believe is a kind of (I am now going to make up a new term) "Hybrid Opening". Part glamour, "yes we are open" kind of thing yet none of the amenities (along with The Chelsea "Lite" tower) will be. Just speculation on my part though by looking at the project.

As much as I admire and get along with everyone in town, I do feel that a majority of people are relatively negative about progress. I get why they are, but why not support such imaginative and progressive developments? I think only Pinky has it in him for that and I fully agree with him. If we remember, the negative chorus was singing loud about the prospects of The Borgata and now we have a wonderful property that has opened up eyes as to the possibility of bringing Atlantic City back to that dream (of the Locals anyway) of what it once was.

In regards to Bashaw's casino, I think the original ideas for the casino (Boutique Style (500 rooms minimum by NJ CCC Law)) would have been great for his group along with Wally's expertise in casino operations. Now that they have proposed 2000+ rooms it will definitely be a much more difficult task.

I know personally by speaking with each of them that their intentions have been to build since the beginning. Things may have changed since the capital markets closed. They could not even build a resort of that magnitude if they wanted to right now. As I said before, there is absolutely no money on the street right now for such a project.

As with Pinnacle, they should keep planning and be determined to build a resort. If the markets do not turn around, then why not sell the land? There are other companies wanting to get into the market. A fully assembled and permitted canvas of land on the boardwalk is a wonderful sweetener!

[Fabrizio]

One thing that helped AC's decline was the Democratic Convention that was held there in 1964.

AC had this huge press opportunity.It was in the national spotlight for a week. Remember, back then it was still boldly billing itself as "The World's Playground". Every journalist in the nation was staying there during that week.

And what happened? While AC in 1964 may have still been splended for folks who knew it well, the journalists sent back articles about what a run-down, shabby place it actually was. It was really quite a scandal.

It is one thing to have a glamorous hotel opening out at the Marina.... but getting people's hopes up that AC is the next Hamptons is pretty dumb and could really back-fire.

Bashaw and crew should tread carefully...

--

[Intheknow]

I'm not against development, so long as it doesn't come at the cost of the taxpayers. If you notice the Chelsea section of AC is the nicest part of town minus the Landmark Condos, the reason why, there are no Casino's past the Hilton.
If you look at any Casino's on the boardwalk and go towards the bay, these neighborhoods are now slums. A city can not be one dimensional to survive. The workers have needs, their children have needs, which are lacking in AC. Why won't the City clean-up? Can it hurt? There are so many trash strewn empty lots in town and not enough public space, the beach is filthy, there isn't a movie theater, no supermarket etc.
AC is the most under utilized City in the world, and it's a damn shame.

[giselehaslice]

AC is trying to improve. It may not be the city who is doing things, but private developers are. If you want to see the city become a better place, investment is a must. So, by making up rumors that steven starr is backing out and Cutis Bashaw not planning to develop a resort anymore doesnt make sense because you say you want the city to become a more usable city.

Some say they want smarter development. I agree, but if the city is in the state it is in right now, I welcome almost anything. Anything is better than the crumbling remains that remain now. So, if you are really rooting for AC, you would'nt bash and you would try to find the small things that make it better.

[66nexus]

Zipburns quote: "AC is rising it's only a matter of time before AC is better than Vegas. Vegas peaked a year or so ago its AC's time now".

Sorry but AC is never going to be bigger then Vegas for gaming customers. Its casinos are decent but only Borgata and Water Club stand out.


Have to do disagree with you there, although I certainly do not think AC is 'better' than Vegas.

I agree with Fabrizio that higher gas $$ will probably help AC, which is far more accessible than Vegas could ever hope to be (its amazing Vegas did as well as it has).

I think its a stretch to say AC will 'never' be bigger for gaming customers for several reasons:

-Macau, which was much worse than AC as far as crime/politics etc. has already surpassed the Strip in gaming revenue.

-AC, being as small as it is, doesn't tread too far behind Vegas in gaming revenues (and like you said, one would only view Borgata as competition but even those old ugly casinos take in $$)

-There was a time (late 80s) when Vegas had the same (larger in scale) ugly casinos that rivaled AC with the tacky-styled flavor.
Casinos like the Wynn, MGM, etc. are all relatively new and newer than most AC casinos.

To sum it all up, Vegas wasn't always 'Vegas', and the Borgata/Water Club won't be the only threat coming from the East

[Intheknow]

I never said it was a fact Starr was backing out, I said rumor has it. Call your sources and ask! Bashaw, as the former head of the CRDA, never intended to build a Casino! First he says boutique(with no drawings or plans) now it's a mega-resort(with no drawings or plans) what am I suppossed to think? I'm not bashing-AC is a shithole-that's a fact. It can easily be cleaned up but the City is content on being filthy-that's a fact!
I encourage development, not dreams of development, not promises.
Bashaw has no Casino development experience, he is a renovator, there's a huge difference. Barr is not a Casino developer, he may know how to run a Casino but to my knowledge he never designed anything.
I stand by my word that these two guys are in it to make a ton of money by using their connections to get permits ,etc. and then flip the land.
Take a look at the two buildings fronting the boardwalk that AC Gateway "purchased" next to the Enclave. Within two months they have become eyesores. Is that what you want this area to become?

[zipburn]

Atlantic Citys win was up last month...Atlantic City will be better then Vegas in sometime, Vegas is big, too big the market is flooded and as stated by people here they think, "AC is a dump", so expectations are low in Atlantic City. Its easy to achieve customer satisfaction because AC will give more than the vistors expect which means people are more likely to come back. With this word of mouth advertising provided by these customers it will continue to attract new people. As AC continues to grow it will be protected from a flooded market because there is only so much land. So with a limited supply of casinos demand increases as AC's popularity goes up. More money means more upgrades and captial investment in the city. The only thing stopping this is the majority of subsidized housing in the city, where these lowlifes (not all of them some are disabled or elderly) live off the government and go out on the streets and scare customers. Another problem is the slumlords that rent beach block properties to illegals and drug dealers(texas ave). AC is small so it is in your face, so to speak. The problems are there people know it and they are trying to fix it. These same worthless people are the ones who keep on electing the crap thats currently in office so they get more money.

[giselehaslice]

Has anyone been down to AC recently? Have any construction updates? Im really anxious to see Revel....

[Intheknow]

Revel is moving along nicely, appears to be on schedule. I'm anti- New Jersey builders, but these guys seem to be on the ball. Just heard tonight that the Chelsea WILL be open in two weeks, forgot to ask about Stephen Starr backing out, appears to be just a rumor. I'll find out tom.
Now if we could just get rid of the City Gov. we might actually make progress. Keep it clean!

[giselehaslice]

Thank you.

[Intheknow]

Looks like the only construction going on is Revel and the Chelsea Hotel. It appears crowded tonight, last night looked dismal. Economy is killing everyone and everything. Doesn't look, at this time, that any new projects are going to get off the ground in the next year, year and a half. AC needs more positives and less abandoned lots and broken promises, might as well clean up the city, boardwalk, and beach while times are tough. Doesn't cost much to clean and the benefit is huge.

[Intheknow]

I've come to the conclusion that AC is unfixable. It will take at least 20 years to undo the pervasive corruption in City Hall. It cannot take an overnight fix and with the amount of stupidity and ignorance it will take at least another generation to change the current incompetence. Do you think the actions of City Hall promote investment or tourism? These people in charge are just too stupid and arrogant to understand. It's sad but true.

[giselehaslice]

Um, okay?

[AC11]

Well, I'm glad you came to that conclusion. Now we can just end this thread and the debate is over. Thanks for your wisdom.

[Fabrizio]

It's a pretty fair assessment:

http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2007/12/after_decades_of_corruption_at.html

[American Gaming Guru]

I was at the Ribbon Cutting ceremony of The Water Club on Friday. I must say that Boyd Gaming has really out-done Borgata. They have accomplished making The Water Club a real different feel from Borgata and more of an upscale experience beginning with the service. There are employees everywhere! The service was impeccable.

The pool scene is unlike anything else in Atlantic City and the attention to design detail is evident. The spa on the 32nd floor "Immersion" is truly something to see. You should all check it out when you have a chance.

I am probably staying there again this 4th of July weekend. I will make sure to bring my camera along this time.

I also had the opportunity to go by Revel and The Chelsea. Revel is rising very fast. A few floors on both hotel towers have been poured and it looks as if the steel for the large "podium" is now being erected.

The Chelsea now looks like it is moving along nicely as well. The exterior is almost complete along Pacific Ave and all the signage is in-place. The "Lite" tower rooms, on the other hand look like they have a long way to go.

Again, I will try and take pics this weekend to share with everyone.

[Intheknow]

Stephen Starr has not backed out of the Chelsea deal. Suppossed to open on the 18th-not likely. Saturday night was a busy busy night. Numbers will be way down for June though. City is still filthy, I know, I can't believe it either.

[66nexus]

Stephen Starr has not backed out of the Chelsea deal. Suppossed to open on the 18th-not likely. Saturday night was a busy busy night. Numbers will be way down for June though. City is still filthy, I know, I can't believe it either.

While I am pretty used to your pessimism, I do not quite understand the consistency of it:

"the plans will fall through..." "AC's unfixable..." "numbers will be way down..." and such

Want true AC filth, take a ride back to 1995, double the nasty, and people still went even then. Any numbers down for hotel stayers has much less to do with AC and much more to do with the economy IMO

[giselehaslice]

Well said. AC is 150% percent better now than in 1995.

Anyway, good news about Revel. Excited to see some construction pix..:D
The Chelsea will open, but probably in Phases, just like the Water Club (are all rooms open yet?)

[zipburn]

i was going to add to the pics that AGG was going to bring but now ill just hit them all up tommorow after work..really pissed right now at the state for putting someone in charge of the tropicana bids who doesn't know what the hell he is doing...even the damn gov. wanted the deal to get done but there was an issue over someones salary.. see what happens when government takes over private industry...they f it up!

[MidtownGuy]

You could have left out the bit about government "taking over" industry, Thank God we have government that regulates industry in this country or it would be a mess, even worse than it is.:cool:

[Marv95]

I'm planning on going to AC for the first time for a day trip on Friday. Probably leave from there after midnight. Anything going on there besides the fireworks and Beach Boys? I'm on a tight budget and prefer something inexpensive or even free. And yes I will play the slots.

Also has anyone taken Greyhound or Academy bus from Port Authority to the casinos? I ask 'cause I wanna know how much of this "casino bonus" voucher thingy I'll be getting back when I get off. Also heard about a food voucher that comes along with it?

[American Gaming Guru]

Marv95. The Academy from the Port Authority is not that bad. Clean buses and definately a cast of characters! I think the cash back is appx. $20 right now. Great bargain considering driving costs appx. $100 round trip from NYC now with gas and tolls.

Definitely check out this website, it usually has everything going on in town: http://www.atlanticcitynj.com/

BTW.....Intheknow? You don't sound it at all.

[AC11]

Some pics of Revel going vertical and Trump's new tower finishing up.

http://www.11floor.com/ACphotos/IMG_0145.jpg

This is what I fear will be a 800' tall blank wall running down the length of this street, closing off the other side of the block completely.
http://www.11floor.com/ACphotos/IMG_0146.jpg
Compare to the rendering
http://rozbmw.bay.livefilestore.com/y1paDYwPcDJoRy5lBg9cOBEaZbdJST1ZqYLY9wIixJTonhOmoO 0tMOgX7XvuoS7HnhMy1uyeoH-UaNLVefxt8ifWQ/Revel-Exterior6.jpg

The new Chairman Tower.
http://www.11floor.com/ACphotos/IMG_0149.jpg

[Intheknow]

I love you guys! The reason I'm so pessimistic is because I live in AC. It could be so much better for very little investment. So much of AC is wasted, you'd be pessimistic also.
Anyway, the two Hilton employee parking lots (Old High school site and one on Hartford Ave and Boardwalk) are empty. AC Gateway must have taken over July 1st-watch them rot.
Did you geniouses read the front page of Wall Street Journal today? If you didn't you should.
I guess I'll see you at the Beach Boy concert friday and I'll also be looking for you July18th when the Chelsea opens.
Don' litter!

[zipburn]

I basically live in Atlantic City but im not pessimistic like yourself. Every year Atlantic City has improved there is a little downturn now but three major hotel expansions are opening this year. A major resort is currently being built. Empty lots are now turned into nice looking affordable housing. In the ducktown area a condo complex will open soon with nice housing. The boardwalk facades are coming along nicely. The chelsea will open and the walk is booming. Sure Pinnacle and AC Gateway will be empty lots for a bit but I see what they will become not what they are now. I will admit one problem that is starting to be an issue, illegal immigration/gangs. These hispanic based gangs are starting to spray paint all over the damn place. If you ride on the tunnel or drive past it on a boat you see what they are doing it makes the city look trashy. It really irks me that they aren't enforcing immigration, these slum lords are renting to these people and its starting to get bad in these neighborhoods.

[Intheknow]

I just got back from the boarwalk. A perfect example of AC stupidity. They drive a trash truck down the middle of the boardwalk at 8 pm thru the crowds, dripping their sludge down the entire length of the boardwalk. It's little things like this that turn people off to this City. Hopefully Bashaw and the Chelsea will have some inflluence on cleaning up the boardwalk. New facades are nice but we're paying way to much for them. Also, every other establisment is a dollar store or lousy, and I mean lousy, pizza joint. We can be a gambling meca and a nice beach resort to vacation. Look at Margate and Ventnor, a stones throw away. AC still looks and acts worse than a Third World Country. I'm surprised UNICEF doesn't have a branch here.
Have you been in any of the Casinos lately? The one's on the boardwalk are filthy. Buy some new carpet, paint etc... I'm amazed at the lack of investment these Casinos put back into there hotels. Thankfully they are going to have to start to improve due to the competition in PA.

[giselehaslice]

Revel looks great! I'm surprised how fast they're getting it up. The casinos on the Boardwalk are actually sprucing up, the only one that I don't think has spruced up is Bally's and maybe Hilton. The others do for the most part have new carpet and paint, so I dont know what your talking about.

[66nexus]

intheknow,

let me guess, 2008 AC bothers you so pre-Borgata AC must've had you throwing up.

I can certainly tell you this, living in AC or not, complaining about all the bad does not a great city make. Is the glass half full or half empty?

If you want AC to be that glittering, glamourous place that once was...then try Vegas for now, or Paris for that matter.

No initial Chelsea's or Borgata/Water Club's or Revels will make the city, AC just needs to keep doing what its doing and refine and iron out the wrinkles along the way. The continued development of AC especially during this financial time is undeniable.

AC is learning at least, we went from casinos like the Resort to casinos like Borgata, and Harrah's casino altering facelift.

[zipburn]

I'm constantly in and out of casinos all day, to say the casinos aren't reinvesting in their interiors is really off base. This spring bally's just renovated the inside of the dennis hotel, and are working on various projects throughout the casino. Caesars is still in renovations on their entire interior including opening up a brand new spa this summer. Harrahs finished renovating their entire inside, and showboat has done the same. Last year the Hilton renovated all their floors including adding a brand new poker room, chinese game section and an add on of a burger bar to oaks . Just a few weeks ago the hilton opened Patsy's in the place of Caruso's. The tropicana just finished building a brand new bar in the center of the main gaming floor, they also finished renovating most of the rooms and added a nice looking slot section that replaces the pennies in heaven section. The trump plaza and taj also went under a complete renovation of their casino which is very nice i must add. Resorts added a Boogie nights club which is working out very well for them. A couple years ago they completely renovated the casino floor and added gallaghers steak house and burger bar, which are great additions. The borgata is currently in the process of renovating all the rooms in the hotel plus a new dining establishment will open shortly.

[acplayer]

I love A.C.'s past and would love to see it achieve it's potential. I did a thorough walk and drive through around A.C. over the last few days. The positives are the Marina area is doing great, although Trumps Marina is really looking worn and hopefully Margaritaville puts a lot of money into it. Gardners Basin is a great place to chill. Nice houses going up around Snug Harbor. The Boardwalk from the Claridge to the Hilton looks good, except for the vacant lot next to the Convention Center. The Dennis Hotel's courtyard is opened up again. The Pier at Caesars is great. The Quarter at Tropicana is doing well and PF Changs creates some good pedestrian street action on Pacific Ave. Also the surf was really fun at States Ave. The Expressway entrance to A.C. and the Walk is attractive. There were bicycle cops patrolling the Boardwalk. Now for the negatives and I can understand InTheKnows frustration. I can't believe how much litter I saw all over A.C., from overflowing trash cans on the Boardwalk, along the beach, along Pacific Ave and the side streets. Something so simple as street, sidewalk and Boardwalk cleaning would make a Huge difference on A.C.'s image. Public works and city residents are not doing their jobs and their civic duty. The Korean War memorial is an ugly concrete slab that blocks Brighton Park and is totally out of place. You can't see the Ocean because the sand dunes block the view from the Boardwalk. The Schiff Brothers obviously have put No money back into Central Pier which looks dilapitated. Considering Spice Road and the new tower, the Taj Mahal's public deck overlooking the Boardwalk & Steel Pier is really bad...peeling paint, cracked and broken plaster and one area with mounds of trash...I couldn't believe Trump actually let this part of his property get so run down. Past Revel there are parts of the Boardwalk that are closed off because it's so bad. Parts of the Boardwalk have fallen into the ocean, railings are totally corroded and the whole boardwalk needs to be replaced. Again, who in city government is responsible for the basics of maintaining the Boardwalk and keeping the city clean? I can't believe the casinos let this mismanagement of the city happen considering the billions of dollars at stake. Another thing I noticed was a total lack of police presence in every area of A.C. I explored. I hope I didn't come across as too negative as I'm still optimistic about A.C.'s future but I wanted to give my honest opinion/impression.

[Fabrizio]

Excellent post.

The Korean War monument: I think the real shame is that it will probably never be moved. AC is just going to have to live with it.... and it is truly awful.

If a politician or a city planner suggested it be moved somewhere else, could you immagine the fall-out from veterans?

And I'd love to know the deal with those sand dunes. I always assumed they were put there to fight erosion but man are they ugly... just ratty looking.

--

[Intheknow]

Fabrizio, The Veterans are for moving the WWI Monument (Albany Ave. Greek Monument) and the removal of 1/3 of O'Donnell Memorial Park so the City can put in a six-lane highway, so moving the Korean Monument is not out of the question. O"Donnell Memorial Park is the largest, cleanest, safest park in AC for the City to destroy it is beyond comprehension. I ask myself why would the Veterans be in favor of moving the Monument, uhmm.... maybe they were promised funds for their VFW hangouts.

[giselehaslice]

As for the sand dunes..
They might not be the best looking things around, but without them probably 3/4 of the existing beach would be washed up on Wildwood by now.

I had now idea that the boardwalk was closed off past Revel. That sounds really bad and they need to do something about it, even if there is'nt anything past Revel except for abandoned lots and run-down apartment complexes.

The Korean War monument was a nice thought, but it's more of an
"Un-Monument" in my opinion. It really has no business being in AC, and really should be in Trenton or somewhere less random.

[Intheknow]

I have contacted the Beach and Boarwalk Div. concerning the closed portion of boardwalk-they obviously are aware of it but must feel the Boardwalk is not that important. The beach and boardwalk are AC's greatest assets to have the boardwalk closed off is just typical AC ineptitude. Now do you see why I am so negative?
As for the beach, every other beach community rakes and cleans their Beach everyday, AC does about 1/5th of there's. It is full of broken shells and garbage, why not clean the whole beach, I mean the guys on the tractor just take another 1/2 hour to do the whole beach?
Keep it clean!

[American Gaming Guru]

I know that there is an agreement in-place with Revel for them to replace large portions of the Boardwalk at that end. I am not sure specifically how far past the resort it will go though.

[American Gaming Guru]

I just found this on another web-site (http://gridskipper.com/71382/meanwhile-in-atlantic-city). Looks great!

Meanwhile in Atlantic City

Wednesday, July 2, 2008
http://gridskipper.com/uploads/thechelsea070208.jpg
Atlantic City's new hotel, the Chelsea, is showing its first signs of life! The pink neon signs out front and on top of the new hotel were up-and-running as of last night. The non-gaming boutique hotel, which officially opens August 1st, is boardwalk-adjacent and will house two restaurants overseen by Stephen Starr, nightlife courtesy of the boys behind NYC's Beatrice Inn, as well as a 15,000 square-foot rooftop pool. The countdown begins...

[Intheknow]

Why doesn't Revel fix boardwalk now? It's summer season, good neighbor marketing, get off on the right foot etc... As for the boardwalk that is closed, that happened in last storm, over a month and a half ago. I asked Ac officials when they are going to fix and they said they are waiting for bids! I reminded them that the taxpayers pay for a boardwalk division of public works dept. and that they have guys doing God knows what at other areas of boardwalk, don't you think they should prioritize the part of Boardwalk that is currently unusable? I'm still waiting for them to get back to me.............Chelsea is looking better, some people have doubts they can get Restaurants open by the 18th, we'll see.

[American Gaming Guru]

I am one of them. I dont think they will have their amenities up an running by the 18th. Probably just a portion of the hotel rooms. I am booked for the 1st weekend in August (for when they officially began taking reservations). I hope it is all open by then!

From the WSJ Today:

COMMERCIAL REAL ESTATE





http://s.wsj.net/img/b.gifBLUEPRINT
Gambling Mecca for Day-Trippers
Bets Some Will Stay Awhile

By MAURA WEBBER SADOVI
SPECIAL TO THE WSJ
July 2, 2008; Page C12

Atlantic City, N.J., now celebrating the 30th year of legalized gambling along its boardwalk, is fighting for its future. Facing stiff competition for the city's bread-and-butter day-trippers, developers are betting billions on new hotel rooms, hoping that the resort can bring in more overnight visitors.
http://s.wsj.net/public/resources/images/PR-AB108A_BLUEP_20080701210818.jpgRevel Entertainment Group A rendering of Revel Entertainment's planned casino along the northern end of the Atlantic City boardwalk that is slated to include two glass-clad hotel towers.
Among the new or revamped properties is the $400 million Water Club. The city's first luxury noncasino hotel opened its doors and five pools last month in the marina district. Like its neighbor, the Borgata Hotel Casino & Spa, the Water Club was developed by a joint venture of Boyd Gaming (http://online.wsj.com/quotes/main.html?type=djn&symbol=BYD) Corp. and MGM Mirage (http://online.wsj.com/quotes/main.html?type=djn&symbol=mgm).
On deck is Revel, a roughly $2 billion beachfront casino by Revel Entertainment Group LLC under construction and targeted to open in 2010, although financing is an issue. Meanwhile, Coastal Marina LLC agreed to buy the Trump Marina Hotel Casino in May for $316 million. Coastal plans to breathe new life into the property with a Jimmy Buffett-inspired Margaritaville theme.
In all, as many as 3,000 hotel rooms are expected to be added this year, expanding the seaside resort's room inventory by about 20%, according to the Atlantic City Convention & Visitors Authority. More are on the way.
Boosters say the additional rooms and new offerings, including spas, restaurants and designer stores, are part of the city's bid to remake itself as a destination that appeals to visitors looking to do more than gamble. Restaurateur Stephen Starr's Buddakan and stores like Tiffany & Co. are already located in Taubman Centers Inc.'s Pier Shops at Caesars, a retail complex opened in 2006.
The pressure is on. With the national economy slowing and Pennsylvania casinos cutting into Atlantic City's customer base, casino revenue from slot machines and table games fell 5.7% last year, marking the city's first annual decline, according to the New Jersey Casino Control Commission. Casino revenue through May of this year was down 5% from the year-earlier period.
The drop has hurt this one-county region in southern New Jersey. The Atlantic City region saw average job levels for 2007 fall 2.6% from 2006, according to the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics.
The bearish outlook isn't worrying Richard Fields, chairman of New York-based Coastal Marina. Mr. Fields says he believes his marina property will attract the higher-income customer who is showing up more in Atlantic City. By buying and renovating an existing casino, he also expects to deliver his property at a discount to the multibillion-dollar price tags of brand-new casinos.
Still, the credit crunch could potentially sideline some of the projects slated to transform the aging gambling town. Las Vegas-based Pinnacle Entertainment (http://online.wsj.com/quotes/main.html?type=djn&symbol=PNK) Inc.'s planned Atlantic City casino, valued at more than $1.5 billion, will open no earlier than 2012, and the project could be indefinitely delayed or canceled if the macroeconomic conditions don't improve, says Pauline Yoshihashi, a Pinnacle spokeswoman.
Meanwhile, the Revel casino project still needs to find financing for the full bill if it is to open its doors in 2010 as planned. Kevin DeSanctis, Revel Entertainment's chief executive, says the project couldn't be completed if more financing doesn't come through, but he expects the credit markets will loosen up around the first quarter of next year and that the project will be able to obtain the money it still needs, an amount he declined to specify.
Write to Maura Webber Sadovi at maura.sadovi@wsj.com (maura.sadovi@wsj.com)

[acplayer]

I forgot to mention the Skyline and new Marriot look good. In other news, this land is crying out to be developed.

From Pinky's corner.
Several years ago, the city of Atlantic City put out a Request for Proposals for the development of property in the Northeast Inlet of the former Captain Starn’s and Garwood Mills sites. The company selected by City Council was the Kushner Corporation. Unfortunately, the president of the company was arrested and eventually jailed. The company stated that it would continue with the project. Kushner put up $2 million to prove its desire to build, but unfortunately, again, they never turned a spade on the ground.
The development was postponed time and time again and finally the time for the development of the project ran out. This columnist was informed that Atlantic City will keep $800,000 of the $2 million. They will return the rest to the company. It is now time for Atlantic City to once again go out for Requests for Proposals to find a company that will develop this valuable piece of inlet property, which is one of the best sites along the waterfront. It could be developed for condominiums or individual homes. Unfortunately, again for the third time, to my knowledge there are no RFPs being prepared for this site, at this time.

Captain Starns
http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh72/acplayerr/accaptainstarnssealions.jpg

http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh72/acplayerr/acstarns1970.jpg

[Intheknow]

Oh Boy, The Revel revelation about not having full financing in place is very disturbing. I'm in a business where I know the full brunt of the economic crunch has yet to be felt. This I hope will teach Las Vegas and AC officials not to approve development without a full financial commitment.
No wonder they haven't repaired the boardwalk fronting their Casino.
Should be a big weekend, slow tonight.

[Intheknow]

It is July 2nd, right? This town looks as though it's February 2nd.

[American Gaming Guru]

Agreed, that Garwood Mills site is absolutely prime for development. I don't know what the city council is thinking, but it might not be a bad idea to wait for an RFP to be released due to the tight credit markets. They are going to want full value for that land. It is an incredible piece of property. But they should be planning for it!

I just took this off of AC weekly. The Chelsea looks great!

http://www.acweekly.com/images/issues/2008-07-03/large/img_9022_actionchel.jpg




Tuesday night, the Chelsea hotel illuminated Atlantic City with the lighting of its neon sign. The fluorescent pink sign of the soon-to-open hotel is a chic addition to the historic seaside resort town’s skyline. (photo by will riccio)AC Action

[Intheknow]

It has been floating around that Bashaw and Barr were in negotiations to buy the Hilton, Hilton demanded they buy Ballys also, Ac Gateway said no then told Hilton that the employee parking lots at old High School and one at Hartford and Boardwalk(which Hilton was leasing off of AC Gateway) be vacated immediatly. Hence, the now empty parking lots.

[American Gaming Guru]

Intheknow. I am not trusting your info. The owners of the Hilton dont even own Ballys.

[Intheknow]

That's what I thought, yet Ac Gateway was in negotiations with Hilton to expand their Rt. 40 Casino plans and they fell through.

[American Gaming Guru]

AC Gateway purchased the former Dunes and AC High School sites from The Hilton (aka Resorts International).

[Fabrizio]

The shot of the Chelsea: isn't that what Pacific Avenue should look like?

----

Intheknow: you just can't continually post rumours here and "things you've heard". WiredNY is not the correct site for that sort of stuff.

[Intheknow]

I'm not a gambler, all casinos look and sound alike to me. The Hilton WAS approached by AC gateway, Hilton wanted Caesers included in the deal Gateway said no, please remove your employee cars from the lots we purchased from you, your lease is up. How's that Fabizio?

[Intheknow]

That is not Pacific Ave in the pic, it's Chelsea Ave. Pacific still looks the same only the Martinique Motel across from Chelsea Hotel now has a chain link fence surrounding it's entrance, nice addition. It may be crime scene chain link fence due to the fact it's crawling with drug addicts, bums and prostitutes, this is what the diners at Stephen Starr Restaurant will be looking at over their $400.00 meals. That's a fact.

[Fabrizio]

LOL.

Well, that's what Pacific Ave SHOULD look like.

[Intheknow]

So far things are looking bleak for this weekend. I'm telling you this town looks desserted. With free concerts on the beach, fireworks tonight-in two spots- traffic is not flowing into the City. The economy is killing this town. I hope things pick up later tonight and tommorrow. This weekend will be a good barometer for the summer. I feel sorry for the workers who rely on tips, I know my bartenders are saying it's been real slow so far this season. Restaurants are being creamed, at least the one's that aren't in Casinos. If you plan on visiting please go out to eat, get drunk, and tip well, it would be greatly appreciated.

[zipburn]

I guess the traffic backed up at least 2 miles on the expressway and the wealth of traffic on albany ave wasn't really there? Is it possible that you could please stop posting your gross misconceptions of reality on here? Its really getting annyoing having to correct your falsehoods. The Pacific Ave. side of the chelsea is tiled with a lightcolor base and yellow/green/black stripes, the corner of chelsea and pacific is all glass with bronze triangles as the awning.

[giselehaslice]

I'm sorry intheknow, but I really can't stand the randomness of your posts. It doesn't serve any purpose saying that the crowds look like february especially when they are probably quite substantial. Obviously you deteste atlantic city and don't want to see it suceed, which is fine, but you aren't contributing any useful info, only saying that a new chain link fence is because of a crime scene.

[66nexus]

Harrah's new tower is lit up like an HD tonight. In essence, the largest tv I've ever seen in my existence

[Jim856796]

That new Revel Entertainment Resort should be twice the height of the Taj Mahal Resort Towers. And anybody notice that the new Taj Mahal tower's ground print looks kinda like a square in shape?

[Intheknow]

Gisel, I don't detest AC or I wouldn't have bought a property here! I'm not a gambler nor do I aspire to be one. I live on the south end of Boardwalk, I see traffic coming in on Albany Ave., there was little or no traffic at 7 pm so f**** you. I hate the waste and lack of legitimate planning for this City-(Lets just throw a Casino here). I live here, I care about the future of this City, I invested in it! I don't go to the Borgata, Harrah's etc..I go where everyday citizens of this City go, and you can bet your ass I'm negative. Until you invest in this City and pay taxes you'll see where my "attitude " originates from. You want a different insight into AC or all your posters regular regurgitation of news atrticles? As for my randomness, look at the randomness of the building of this City!
You pissed me off!
Don't F****** litter when you visit.

[Intheknow]

Revel is going to run out of money! Guaranteed! Mark my words.

[American Gaming Guru]

I am at Borgata right now for the entire weekend and the place is COMPLETELY SOLD OUT! Intheknow knows nothing but false rumors. The Hilton does not own Caesars either, so that rumor is a falsehood as well. Completely untrue.

We here enjoy progress and creativity. I suggest you utilize private posts and messages for careless ambiguity.

[66nexus]

Gisel, I don't detest AC or I wouldn't have bought a property here! I'm not a gambler nor do I aspire to be one. I live on the south end of Boardwalk, I see traffic coming in on Albany Ave., there was little or no traffic at 7 pm so f**** you. I hate the waste and lack of legitimate planning for this City-(Lets just throw a Casino here). I live here, I care about the future of this City, I invested in it! I don't go to the Borgata, Harrah's etc..I go where everyday citizens of this City go, and you can bet your ass I'm negative. Until you invest in this City and pay taxes you'll see where my "attitude " originates from. You want a different insight into AC or all your posters regular regurgitation of news atrticles? As for my randomness, look at the randomness of the building of this City!
You pissed me off!
Don't F****** litter when you visit.



Now you're just taking this thing personal.

Who buys property in a city only to complain about it? Everyone here invested in the city just by going there and we can acknowledge the bad without blowing it out of proportion.

Let me say what perhaps you want to say: "AC is a filthy this, they don't do enough of that, they shouldn't have done this..."

Now with that out of the way I'll ask you, what are you going to do to change it?

We all can exchange our different views but it isn't personal in nature and shouldn't be taken as such

[Jim856796]

Revel is going to run out of money! Guaranteed! Mark my words.

Does that mean their under construction hotel will be put in jeopardy?

[ZippyTheChimp]

I see traffic coming in on Albany Ave., there was little or no traffic at 7 pm so f**** you.The **** doesn't change the nature of a personal attack.

Stop it.

[giselehaslice]

Whatever, intheknow can curse me off. I have better things to do than get offended by someone I don't even know. Happy 4th!

[American Gaming Guru]

Certainly Revel could run into trouble, but with Morgan Stanley as a partner, lets hope that they do not. Unfortunately AC has seen a few of such projects that started construction and never finished:

The Dunes
The Penthouse

Even the Taj Mahal sat uncompleted for quite some time before Donald Trump came along.

I was going to hit up the beach today, but it looks a bit gloomy out there. Intheknow, do you have something to do with that (just some comic relief)? I will take as many pics as possible of the various projects.

I hope everyone has a safe, happy and healthy 4th of July.

GOD BLESS AMERICA!

[AC11]

Does that mean their under construction hotel will be put in jeopardy?

Jim, Don't listen to a word intheknow says. He's clueless.

[Intheknow]

OK, I've stated that Revel won't finish, AC Gateway has no intentions of building and that June revenue #'s will be horrendous (The June Swoon). Time will tell.
City is packed to the gills. Reminds me of the old days.
Don't litter

[zipburn]

You have also stated that AC Gateway wanted Caesars with the Hilton. This made no logical sense in geographical terms one, caesars is at the base of the expressway no way in hell would someone give up that property. The big second is that caesars and bally's have had no connection to the hilton for about 4 years now. People who generally post on this board don't have to be residents or gamblers to know what companies own what casinos. Instead of critizing people for posting and reading articles about the development of this city, maybe you should learn a little about the city you live in before you start posting bogus information that the average joe knows is wrong. The city was packed last night too, the crowds where coming in from the expressway to the marina district. Why you may ask? BECAUSE THERE WAS A MAJOR FIREWORKS DISPLAY ON THAT SIDE OF THE CITY, NOT THE SOUTHSIDE OF AC. why does it seem like its packed to the gills today? SINCE YOUR ON THE SOUTH SIDE OF THE CITY THERE IS A FREE BEACHBOYS CONCERT ON THE BEACH!!! Revel/Morgan Stanley took a calculated risk. The economy has slowed and the credit markets are bad right now, everyone with a brain knows it will recover. They are doing what I believe is a smart strategy, rather then wait for the markets to recover start now so when they do, the casino will be closer to opening then any other place. They can captilize when the market is ready. One more thing this is thread is about the development of atlantic city, not grievances with how the city is run. You are the citizen of AC, not us. Instead of constantly bitching to people who can't help you why don't you do us and yourself a favor; go to city hall and bitch at them!

[Intheknow]

City HAll doesn't respond to my phone calls or letters, believe me I bitch. Tside. The new Chelsea Hotel opened today, half of the lux side

[Intheknow]

Look, I'm just your average efficient, non-corrupt guy. I don't wish bad will on the Casinos. It's just we can do so much better with very little effort, am I wrong in expressing my opinion?
The new Chelsea lobby looked really nice, can't wait until it's complete. They do have a ways to go.
Revel is moving slow, I wish it would open tommorrow, but it won't. I heard they are not fully financed and this is a huge concern. This economy has a good year and a half to recover, add another year and a half for Casino investment, Ka Peeshe?

[Intheknow]

Don't litter.

[Fabrizio]

Intheknow, some advice: they will most likely ban you from the forum if you keep posting multiple posts like that. The "don't litter" thing is cute once, but keep it up and you'll see...

[Intheknow]

AC gateway approached Hilton, Hilton said you can have us if you buy RESORTS also, Gateway said no.
Sorry about the multiple posts.

[American Gaming Guru]

I know that we have been talking about it and now a wonderful property is back for all to see.

This is a fantastic project. Harrah's should be commended for their proper (and very expensive) restoration of a bit of AC's glorious past.

An old Boardwalk beauty returns for all to see

By DONALD WITTKOWSKI Staff Writer, 609-272-7258
Published: Saturday, July 05, 2008
http://media.pressofatlanticcity.com/smedia/2008/07/05/08/523-dennis.embedded.prod_affiliate.101.jpg (http://media.pressofatlanticcity.com/smedia/2008/07/05/08/243-dennis.standalone.prod_affiliate.101.jpg) http://media.pressofatlanticcity.com/smedia/2008/07/05/08/243-dennis.standalone.prod_affiliate.101.jpg

The Dennis Hotel section of Bally's Casino Hotel in Atlantic City has finally been freed of an ugly retail pavilion that blocked the view of the Victorian-era building from the Boardwalk.
Anthony Smedile / The Press of Atlantic City


http://media.pressofatlanticcity.com/smedia/2008/07/05/08/615-dennis3.embedded.prod_affiliate.101.jpg (http://media.pressofatlanticcity.com/smedia/2008/07/05/08/875-dennis3.standalone.prod_affiliate.101.jpg) http://media.pressofatlanticcity.com/smedia/2008/07/05/08/875-dennis3.standalone.prod_affiliate.101.jpg

http://media.pressofatlanticcity.com/smedia/2008/07/05/08/401-dennis2.embedded.prod_affiliate.101.jpg (http://media.pressofatlanticcity.com/smedia/2008/07/05/08/6-dennis2.standalone.prod_affiliate.101.jpg) http://media.pressofatlanticcity.com/smedia/2008/07/05/08/6-dennis2.standalone.prod_affiliate.101.jpg

http://media.pressofatlanticcity.com/smedia/2008/07/05/08/569-dennis1.embedded.prod_affiliate.101.jpg (http://media.pressofatlanticcity.com/smedia/2008/07/05/08/228-dennis1.standalone.prod_affiliate.101.jpg) http://media.pressofatlanticcity.com/smedia/2008/07/05/08/228-dennis1.standalone.prod_affiliate.101.jpg








ATLANTIC CITY - Martin Schaeffer, an 81-year-old tourist from Holland, Pa., was born about the same time that the Dennis Hotel was built.

On a recent afternoon, he interrupted his stroll on the Boardwalk to give the old hotel an admiring look. Then he whistled in approval.
"The architecture is A-1," he marveled. "They don't make them like this anymore."
Until recently, Schaeffer and millions of others who traverse the Boardwalk each year weren't able to appreciate the beauty of the Dennis, a stately building topped by an elegant French mansard roof.
From ground level on the Boardwalk, the Dennis was hidden by a long, two-story retail pavilion built in the 1960s or '70s which housed a collection of nondescript food outlets and shops.

But now the pavilion has been torn down, freeing up the view of the Dennis, as it was originally, following the hotel's construction from 1915 to 1925. Bally's Atlantic City, which bought the pavilion for $38.5 million last year, wanted the public to see the Dennis as it was in its heyday.

"We got rid of the ugly retail pavilion," Joe Domenico, Bally's senior vice president and general manager, said bluntly. "From a property standpoint, it definitely was the right thing to do. It definitely opens up the view to a beautiful old hotel."
The Dennis still functions as a hotel as part of the sprawling, multi-themed Bally's casino complex. Bally's recently invested $19 million to refurbish the hotel's 330 rooms and is spending another $4 million to spruce up the view from the outside, Domenico said.
Scheduled to finish by the Fourth of July weekend, work crews are putting the final touches on a wider Boardwalk that will extend right up to the Dennis. The project also includes new brickwork to repair parts of the Dennis that were damaged when the retail pavilion was torn away from the hotel. In addition, the hotel's former scenic courtyard is being recreated with new sod and landscaping.
"We're restoring the original look of the hotel as best as possible," Domenico said. "It's going to be a whole new perspective on what had been a pretty poor area."
The Dennis is laid out in a U-shaped design, with two wings jutting out to the Boardwalk from the hotel's main 11-story section. The wings are painted in whimsical aqua and lavender hues. The hotel facade has graceful arched windows, like eyes topped with beautiful lashes.
"The two wings never had sunlight on them," Daniel Iversen, a Friedmutter Group architect overseeing the project for Bally's, said of where the retail pavilion covered the hotel. "We had to remove the structural sections of the pavilion where they were attached to the building. Now we're creating a facade that will tie into the existing building."
Preservation of the Dennis Hotel was identified as a top priority of the state Casino Reinvestment Development Authority as part of its ongoing $100 million restoration project of stores and historic sites along the Boardwalk. The authority wanted the old retail pavilion torn down and played with the idea of condemning it to clear the way for demolition.
However, Bally's was able to reach a sale agreement with the pavilion's former owners, Abraham and Robert Schiff, the legendary brothers who control about 70 percent of the noncasino property on the Boardwalk.
Interestingly, a now-outdated sign attached to a railing on the Boardwalk reminds everyone of how the pavilion once blocked the view of the Dennis. It invites people to "turn around and look hard" at two Atlantic City icons now disguised as part of the Bally's complex.
One of them, the Warner Theatre, a majestic movie house that opened in the 1920s, stopped showing films long ago. All that remains is the theater's ornate Spanish-Moorish revival facade that has been incorporated into Bally's Wild Wild West Casino.
The second icon is the Dennis Hotel, which is sandwiched between the Wild Wild West Casino and Bally's modern glass-skinned hotel tower.
The sign includes an old picture showing how the Dennis used to look to Boardwalk strollers, before the retail pavilion was built. Now, everyone will be able to enjoy that unobstructed view again.
E-mail Donald Wittkowski: DWittkowski@pressofac.com (DWittkowski@pressofac.com)

[Fabrizio]

Nice that they've opened it up, but it's a cheap, gross restoration.

First of all, a neo-classic brick building covered over in paint, is just tacky looking. (they did the same hack-job on the HaddonHall.... fortunately the Claridge was spared).

A first-class restoration would mean cleaning the building to it's original brick work. Removing paint on these buildings is done all the time, it's not something that's unusual to do.

If they MUST keep the paint on, AT LEAST chose a decent color scheme. Neo-classic detailing painted blue and orange is laughable. The roofs of these buildings where traditionally grey or green, yet, I see that they insist with blue.

And why is that grand bay widow given reflective glass?

This magnificent building is obviously in the hands of idiots. It looks like something you'd see in Albania.

[American Gaming Guru]

Unfortunately, they renovated the facade a years ago to mimic their Wild Wild West Casino (big mistake obviously) while now considered tacky, was a big hit when it first opened.

I thought The Dennis was originally white painted brick. Does anyone out there know?

Also, I just saw this on Expedia about The Chelsea:

Renovation Notice

.hotdtxt{font-size:12px;line-height:16px;} http://www.expedia.dk/eta/spaceit.gif

The hotel opened on July 4, 2008 with the following amenities: Guestrooms include TVs with HD basic cable, telephones, and minibars
Valet parking and bell services are available Upcoming additions:
On August 1, 2008, the pool, food and beverage services, and room service will begin (date is subject to change)
The spa will open on October 1, 2008 (subject to change) This information supersedes all other information in this hotel’s description that relates to these hotel amenities.

[Fabrizio]

Unfortunately, they renovated the facade a years ago to mimic their Wild Wild West Casino (big mistake obviously) while now considered tacky, was a big hit when it first opened.



Now considered tacky? It was considered tacky the moment it was finished.

The Dennis was built in the 1920's. Brick with limestone detailing. The Marlborough-Blenheim was white painted stucco. The Traymore was tan glazed brick.

Brick buildings of this kind were NOT painted ... it wasn't a tenement for gosh sakes. It was painted by Bally's 20 years ago.

--

[AC11]

Now considered tacky? It was considered tacky the moment it was finished.
--

While I agree the paint scheme is tacky, I think it shows great vision on Harrah's part to restore this building. I for one love passing it on the Boardwalk.

[American Gaming Guru]

Same here. I love it.

[Fabrizio]

AC11: my quote is refering to the WildWest theme.

----

Listen, it's wonderful to see this opened up. But they have not "restored" this building. I can only hope that it's the first phase in a real restoration (doubt it). If they leave that ridiculous multi-colored paint scheme and dumb reflective glass treatment, then it's just the same old eye-sore... with a lawn in front.

[American Gaming Guru]

My hopes as well. That would be fantastic. The multi-colored theme looks ridiculous.

[66nexus]

While it may not be to historical standards, the new paint scheme is a far cry from the old one. Same old eye-sore it ain't, tan beats blue/orange (paint) on almost every beach town I can think of. Imagine if they had simply left the color but tore down the retail structure...hideous wouldn't describe it.

[Intheknow]

Well, it is the most aesthetically pleasing site on the boardwalk. Which says alot about the rest of the boardwalk. The new boardwalk they installed looks great, let's do the whole boardwalk with CRDA money and outside contractors.

[Fabrizio]

It should be noted too that one of the most beautiful features of the Dennis was destroyed by Bally's: the wings that connected the hotel to the B'walk. These were 2 story limestone structures with Gothic-revival detailing (a different architectural style than the main structure). They were an essential feature of the hotel.

Also: the curved balconies of the main structure were taken down.

So much of the original detailing of the building has been destroyed... that together with the inane paint job, the building is really only a shadow of it's former self.

Considering the billions that a company like Bally's has, it amazes me that they can't do a decent job restoring it. The building, as it exists now, looks junky.

The Dennis:

http://www.emporis.com/en/il/im/?id=622481

The Hotel du Palais in Biarritz:

http://www.hotelspreference.com/_cache/114/photos/04f989d2073bc25568139c1cc3229f09.jpg/NCxNC-Mode~ratio-BG~-Root~-ScaleUp~1.png

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b5/BiarritzHotelduPalais1.JPG/800px-BiarritzHotelduPalais1.JPG


---

[zipburn]

its better than nothing isn't it? IMO those wings looked silly, and they were removed because of the building that was just torn down. On a sidenote they are putting up a building with architecture you might like next to ripleys believe it or not. I know your hard to please so we will see.

[Fabrizio]

Uh... let's see... 1920's Neo-Gothic structures with carved limestone detailing, sundecks, canopies and a luxury shopping arcade facing an out-door cafe... looked ....silly.

http://www.emporis.com/en/il/im/?id=622481

[Intheknow]

What a Hotel! Now that's a tourist attraction, can you imagine if that was there now the way it was? Well, we have the new Chelsea Hotel-sheesh. Does anyone have any old or new pics of old AC High School? Knife and Fork, O'Donnell Park(Chelsea Park), WWI Monument, or that area of AC?

[zipburn]

Uh... let's see... 1920's Neo-Gothic structures with carved limestone detailing, sundecks, canopies and a luxury shopping arcade facing an out-door cafe... looked ....silly.

http://www.emporis.com/en/il/im/?id=622481

I'm sorry about your obsession with old buildings but those wings look silly and out of place in front of that building.. if you can't see how retarded it looks blocking the dennis then you are blinded by your obsession... don't get me wrong they look really good but they also look really reallly stupid in front of the dennis

[zipburn]

Sure we can continue to post these buildings in their heyday but this following is a shot of the buildings in 1978 with no one on the boardwalk! I wonder why? http://www.emporis.com/en/il/im/?id=317028

[Fabrizio]

The Dennis was a hotel complex built in 3 phases: if you notice, the mansard roofed wings were built IN FRONT of the main building. And then IN FRONT of the mansard roofed wings were built the 2 story structures. All different architectural styles but working together in a harmoniously designed building. Although I can understand that you would think it looks retarded, believe me, it was quite beautiful:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v33/ronaldo/hotel-dennis-atlantic-city-us-state.jpg

Obessesed with old buildings?

The Dennis in it's present state looks more like something from Castro's Havana (or perhaps Ceausescu's Romania).

Honestly, I'd rather see the thing torn down and replaced with a top-notch piece of modern architecture than to see it as it is now.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v33/ronaldo/569-dennis1embeddedprod_affiliate10.jpg



--

[Intheknow]

AC casinos revenue down 11% in June compared to same time last year. Economy, smoking ban, energy costs, blah blah blah. A gambler will always gamble, be it PA or AC. AC better start working for their customers or the slide will continue.

[American Gaming Guru]

Ouch! I just saw it on the CCC website too. Realize, however, that this is not singularly an AC phenomenon. Here is the latest on Nevada:

Statewide, gambling revenue in May slumped an eye-popping 15.2%, with table games down 15.7% and slots off 15.1%. Things were even worse on the Las Vegas Strip, where total gambling revenue fell 16.4% -- the largest decline yet in 2008, and one that is at an increasing rate as quarter-to-date revenues for the Strip are off 9%.

"The decline in Strip revenues is worse than the period immediately following Sept. 11, 2001 and except for January 2002 is the worst monthly performance in more than 10 years," wrote Robin Farley of UBS in a note. "The weakness in gaming revenues was not confined exclusively to the Strip as the Las Vegas locals market declined 19.5% in May, bringing year to date revenues down 8.7%."

[66nexus]

Yep AGG^

we have foreseen this. The first time I realized Vegas would be vulnerable was in the aftermath of the Sept. 11th attacks, that made me believe that while Vegas' exotic nature as a mystical far away place (because you can't get there easily) was its ultimate weakness (...well, because you can't get there easily) lol

ps: Is Fabrizio really gone? What the heck is a debate worth without two sides

[Intheknow]

Revel wants to use the City of Atlantic City to facilitate a $56 million dollar loan to widen the road around their casino. This project is in deep trouble, if it gets finished, it won't be for another 5-7 years. The credit markets are bad and getting worse. As for business in AC, just ask ANY Casino employee, it's really bad. As for the Casino take compared to last year-the Casinos slots are not paying out as the same percentage as last year, ask any slots player. In the short term Casinos profits will be up, in the long run gamblers will go elsewhere.
These Casinos and AC Gov. better start reacting to competition.

[zipburn]

unless this past june was spectacluar it was going to be down just because of the calender, and with gas prices at or near 4 dollars for regular people are going to be driving less.. boy if that train was available from nyc now instead of next year it would have been great for this city....i still don't buy this doom and gloom logic though.. borgatas tower just went online and the chelsea is up too i expect a strong win in july. slide? there was a win in may.. people can only play table games here not in pa so what atlantic city is in the process of doing is removing the low-roller slot players who come by bus, which has been a a goal in the transformation of the city to more of an overnight destination. the walk has has been really busy in fact i have never seen it this busy its what it used to be on the weekends during the weekdays so far this summer. I can't imagine how much non gaming revenue in the city has gone up since the last estimate of $500 million was done before the walk and borgata were even open but for some idiotic reason they refer to that number like its current. There is more to spend money on instead of casino gambling now so unless they start showing that its hard to judge how this has affected this city. Eventually these clowns in government will have to do something to get the price of fuel lowered when that happens expect to see wins get bigger..

[Intheknow]

unless this past june was spectacluar it was going to be down just because of the calender, and with gas prices at or near 4 dollars for regular people are going to be driving less.. boy if that train was available from nyc now instead of next year it would have been great for this city....i still don't buy this doom and gloom logic though.. borgatas tower just went online and the chelsea is up too i expect a strong win in july. slide? there was a win in may.. people can only play table games here not in pa so what atlantic city is in the process of doing is removing the low-roller slot players who come by bus, which has been a a goal in the transformation of the city to more of an overnight destination. the walk has has been really busy in fact i have never seen it this busy its what it used to be on the weekends during the weekdays so far this summer. I can't imagine how much non gaming revenue in the city has gone up since the last estimate of $500 million was done before the walk and borgata were even open but for some idiotic reason they refer to that number like its current. There is more to spend money on instead of casino gambling now so unless they start showing that its hard to judge how this has affected this city. Eventually these clowns in government will have to do something to get the price of fuel lowered when that happens expect to see wins get bigger..
You're not getting it, PA will have tables, the take is down here in AC, Casino money drives this City. Take all non-gambling revs for City and you won't ever come to Casino $$$. Fuel isn't the main problem concerning Atlantic City. I'm not pessimisict, just realistic.

[zipburn]

I'm sorry your pessimistic, i think you have posted one positive thing about ac and that was in regards to the dennis. I don't get it? I guess July 4th was a bad weekend for the city? I guess the market research shows more people are willing to come back Atlantic City over Vegas but that doesn't mean anything. I guess Revel will just run out of money and two major towers will just sit there empty. I guess MGM is breaking ground in Dec. And I guess somehow widening roads so their isn't major traffic backups is a bad thing. You have been posting alot of rumor/ignorant posts that have no merit. Everyone and their mother knew that Revel was going ahead with out full financing. Everyone also knows that they are being financed by Morgan Stanley. So is Morgan Stanley going under? Really that is what you are suggesting. If the city can get lower interest rates than Revel why not ask the city for some help on a job that the city is "supposed" to be responsible for in the first place? Last I checked most people have a budget for a trip or vacation, if they are spending more for fuel then that means they have less to burn at the tables. Hence less revenue at the end of the day for the casinos. If the city sells out hotel rooms regularly on the weekend, do you think adding hotel rooms doesn't increase the take on a weekend? Do you think if a couple want to go on vacation but want to drive somewhere, are they going to stay at horse track/casino where its smells like horse crap and the only option is play slots? Or are they going to come to the beach? Anyone can go to their local bar for thier bachelor/bachelorette party but if they come to atlantic city they can party all night. In which they do.... everything I just posted is factually sound. Can we say the same for your posts? NOPE!

[Intheknow]

Time will tell.

[acplayer]

Intheknow, you asked for some old A.C.H.S. and Chelsea Park photos. Here's a couple. And yes old A.C. was awesome, the future A.C. can be awesome as the city has tons of potential, but currently it's one of the most dysfunctional city's in the country.

p.s. what happened to Fabrizio?

http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh72/acplayerr/achighschool.jpg


http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh72/acplayerr/actrolley68881955.jpg

[Intheknow]

Thanks for the pics. What building is/was the second pic? Did Bashaw, as the head of the CRDA, have the high school torn down? The reason I ask is, his plans call for removing half the park for his new Casino. He already bought the Old High school site, sounds alittle shady, but what do I know?

[JCexpert558]

Look this thread is called AC new Image why is everybody talking about it's past?

[Intheknow]

Look this thread is called AC new Image why is everybody talking about it's past?
Ummm, because the new image is on hold until the US economy gets out of the crapper. Should we put the thread on hold for 4-7yrs?
What is being built besides the Revel site-won't be finished anytime soon,and the Chelsea Hotel? Whatever is planned is now unplanned until further notice. Sad but true.
Anyone have old pics?

[zipburn]

Ummm, because the new image is on hold until the US economy gets out of the crapper. Should we put the thread on hold for 4-7yrs?
What is being built besides the Revel site-won't be finished anytime soon,and the Chelsea Hotel? Whatever is planned is now unplanned until further notice. Sad but true.
Anyone have old pics?

Wrong again. Not that im suprised. MGM doesn't need financing it has the resources to build whatever shape the US economy is in as it is a GLOBAL company. Maybe you should put a hold on your posts for 4-7 years by then maybe you will finally be "Intheknow". Revel is on target for its 2010 opening. The only thing sad is what you have done to this thread.

Look this thread is called AC new Image why is everybody talking about it's past?

I don't get it either there a bunch of projects going on right now but people keep on dwelling in the past by showing old buildings when they looked good. These same buildings looked run down and were eyesores before they were demolished. We can talk about saving everything but really who is going to pay for the millions of dollars to refurbish these old buildings? People need to get through their skull that things will be saved if it is economically viable. Just look at what Trump Entertainment did to the old firehouse on Pennsylvania Ave. It looks great but not everything can be save as it does fit into future plans.

Thanks for the pics. What building is/was the second pic? Did Bashaw, as the head of the CRDA, have the high school torn down? The reason I ask is, his plans call for removing half the park for his new Casino. He already bought the Old High school site, sounds alittle shady, but what do I know?

I though you said you lived in Atlantic City? Thats the green/white stucco building that was refurbished about 10 years ago, and unlike its current pic it looked like trash before they did it. Also the building next to it was demolished about 4 years ago it had broken windows and needed to be removed.When you drive towards the inlet where atlantic/ventnor merge. The old ACHS building was refurbished by a superintendent which cost the city millions of dollars in wasted funds as the building started to crumble anyway. The building was then declared unworthy of a building permit. So it sat there until it was bought by the Hilton which at the time was part of the old Park Place Entertainment. Wally Barr was at the top of that company in the Atlantic City market during the purchase. The building was an eyesore. People were more upset because they went to school there rather than upset because of the architecture. The ohio ave. s