Atlantic City Seeks New Image: Las Vegas's

[Fabrizio]

That part of the B'walk weird?

Yes, weird that after 30 years of casino gambling it sits in this condition.

That part of the B'walk (with Captain Starns and Hackney's) was once beautiful and a tourist attraction.

That AC lets it's "world famous" boardwalk lanquish like this for all the world to see , says plenty about an inept city hall and it's citizens.

I love the fallen down lamp post... I wonder how many years it's been sitting there.

Damn right I'm gonna complain.

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http://geology.cwru.edu/~huwig/catalog/slides/265.%20.15.jpg

[Intheknow]

I ride my bike every morning on the boardwalk. That section was closed off about 3 months ago, not ten years. You two have stated some real idiotic statements. How much would it costs to repair? Less than the 100 million the City is spending for new facades on massage parlors, bad pizza joints, and dollar stores. As for crime in that area, maybe some police presence would help.
"Lets tear down the boardwalk" "Lets demolish the boardwalk" Thank God you guys aren't in charge. Honestly, are you serious?

[American Gaming Guru]

Since I was young (ok about 10 years ago) I always thought it would be a good idea to move that section of the boardwalk to the shore-line (instead of out in the water), that way to extend the rest of the boardwalk all the way to the inlet. It might even open that shore-line area to new hotel and commercial development to liven it up a bit.

[Fabrizio]

An while AC lets it's "world famous" boardwalk rot, Disney builds it's own boardwalk complete with old style Atlantic City architecture.

Imagine if the Inlet looked like this:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/eschipul/268964987/sizes/l/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/7957780@N06/2549980868/in/photostream/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/srkelleher/305654911/

While AC let's it's SteelPier rot.... Disney builds this:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/sbam/120355719/sizes/o/


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[giselehaslice]

Yeah, guess your right. I'd much rather the CRDA spend $100 Million to fix up that "pier" that really doesnt have any meaning than try to improve the streetscape along the boardwalk that everyone knows is there. (NOT)

I dont think anyone who visits the city knows about the inlet section. It's not a boardwalk, It's a random wooden walkway over water, which is fine when people know about it, buy nobody does.

[Intheknow]

Gesil: stop while you are behind. Gee, all that ocean front land ready to be developed, let's pretend it's not there.

[JCexpert558]

I think the Boardwalk in the water is a good idea, all they have to do is fix it up a bit and many people will be over there IMO.

[Fabrizio]

Here are comments from people all over the US about Atlantic City on the very popular and much read TripAdvisor.

Nearly every review is negative.... some of them hilariously so.

A sample:

"We came home a day early because Atlantic City was such a disapointment. We used to love it there. You used to be able to see the ocean from the boardwalk and I'd love to take a break from the casinos to sit on the boardwalk and watch the ocean... it mesmerizes me. Ilove it. Now, you can't even see the ocean from the boardwalk. They built a sand berm so all you see is a big sand hill with some spiky plants sticking out of it." - Barbee44 Buffalo NY

"The boardwalk was almost deserted. You had the usual homeless people and street musicians. I thought I was back in the NYC subway. The boardwalk itself is not clean. Its just a way of getting from one casino to another. Don't go out of your way to visit this." - bwco Morris County, NJ

"The stores have very cheap touristy objects and really bad knockoff bags if thats even what you want to call them. It seems everyone on it at night is just having a good time walking to different casinos, but I would not walk it after a certain time since the area does not exactly give off the vibe of safe." - TheresaP Long Island

"Some of the hotels, even though they're considered next to one another, have big gaps of nothingness between them. These gaps are especially not good to travel on foot at night." - missmusic Bay Shore, NY

"May I suggust that you stay in your hotel or go to another boardwalk. The stores are terrible. They are full of trashy items; (like napkins for the new year 1999), and plenty of other things! Next, there are bums and homeless roaming and even sleeping under the boardwalk. They want your money (we got asked a few times)." Traveler0714 Mechanicsburg, PA

"Sadly, this place is very run down and seemingly not very safe.
Immediately upon entering the boardwalk, you see all sorts of dirty people roaming around obviously up to no good. The stores are seedy and run down although some are newer and nice. The beach is the dirtiest I have ever seen ( I actually left my sandles on while walking on it for fear of stepping on who knows what). It is obvious street people live in the immediate area. There was litter all over the beach area and boardwalk itself. " - Berghof

"Dont go out of your way to go here. All it is is a huge boardwalk. The weakest one i have ever been to in fact. Time is better spent at most any other beach." GMan5431 Cincinnati, Ohio

"We seen things haven't changed much on the broadwalk. This was our first time taking our 2 year old son there. We were taking a stroll towards Taj Mahal and we were approached by a bum asking for money. " - MLD07 New York

"It is quite a seedy area...including the beach..... Not to mention the homeless or the crazy people pan-handling.." sparklerblue Upstate NY

"atlantic city was the worse place ive ever seen there was garbage all over,and there were strange people everywhere it was a very dirty place new jersey should be ashamed of its self" - A TripAdvisor Member bridgeport ct.

"Atlantic City is really losing a comeback draw for tourist on the boardwalk. The open garbage buckets literally smelled and drew the gulls. If every casino on the strip paid a fraction to funding garbage pickup/bags/etc. it would make the boardwalk so much more enjoyable. I think the casinos want to keep people inside - but that short term thinking backfires. People would stay longer if they could enjoy the boardwalk and views more." - A TripAdvisor Member Gardner, Ma.

"AC should be ashamed of the condition of the boardwalk. It was filthy and nasty, run down and one huge disappointment. It's obvious that the revenue the casinos generate is put right back into them and the rest of AC has gone to pot! All in all, this was an anniversary trip and we had fun being together, but were very disappointed with AC and won't return. " - A TripAdvisor Member Colonial Heights, VA

[giselehaslice]

Fabrizio, I'm not trying to start anything but I dont see what point your trying to make with tripadvisor posts. Okay we get that the city is in bad shape in alot of areas, but complaining about putting dunes next to the boardwalk is an invalid point. Would you rather have waves come up during a storm and wash the boardwalk away, or the sand. Thats what they are there for. Also, people go there and expect it to be like Vegas. It's definatley not, and won'nt be for a long time. It's a city with economical problems for lots of residents, just like any other city. People try to act like Orlando (Disney) is a perfect place where nothing goes wrong, but in reality, its the most dangerous city in Florida, beating Miami. Thats saying something.

Anyway, okay maybe there is waterfront land to be developed on that side of the boardwalk, but the problem with that is the boardwalk is'nt even near the actual land. Bulldoze the existing structure, and maybe build another actually on land. That would make alot more sence.

[66nexus]

Fab, I'm kinda with Gise on the curiosity of posting tripadvisor comments on here. When did people ever have good things to say about the boardwalk after 1960? Half of them don't know what changed because it was their first time and other people have their expectations on a Vegas level...

Additionally, (for those who knock the casinos) AC was in decline years before the first casino showed up. AC's undoing had nothing to do with the casinos and it is almost beyond opinion that it is way better than it was.

So we can hate the Walk, which was an absolutely desolate neighborhood before it, we can hate the Pier at Caesar's which was an empty complex, we can hate Revel which sat on the site of pure...well nothingness.

So wish AC was South Beach or Vegas or whatever for those who want to do that...I say go ahead and celebrate those cities already.

Wishing upon a star will not change AC so if its development is unnerving then one should discontinue support.

[Intheknow]

All those posts on tripadvisor are from me using aliases. Ha Ha

The sand berms are only good for obstructing the view of the ocean, I think Casino and City officials want people to forget there is a beach and ocean behind the berms.

As for the beach, every town(Ventnor, Margate, Wildwood, etc.) rakes the whole beach everyday. AC rakes about ten ft. wide at the waters edge, it's unbelievable to me.

The City collects the trash on Boardwalk with a stinking, dripping, trashtruck at 7 a.m. and 5 p.m. in the process scattering tourist. It is beyond comprehension on why they do this.

For AC to grow it must maintain tourist, i.e. have them come back.

Like I said "Atlantic City-the most under-utilized City in the world"

[Fabrizio]

Gisel, Nexus: Guys, follow the thread. We are discussing the B'walk at the inlet.

Tear this section down ...or restore it. But letting it sit there to rot casts a poor image on AC (as if AC doesn't already have enough image problems).

I posted travelers comments about the B'walk from TripAdvisor to show you what the popular image of the b'walk is: a dump.

So WHY add to that image by letting this section of the B'walk decay? If this is AC's "World Famous" b'walk... promoted as a fabulous stroll and bike ride ...then clean up your act. If not, you get the "World Famous" TripAdvisor full of those kind of comments.

So my posting of the TripAdvisor comments is entirely appropriate to the conversation.




Wishing upon a star will not change AC so if its development is unnerving then one should discontinue support.

Would you mind explaining that further?

-------

More about TripAdvisor: it is interesting to compare travelers hotel experiences between AC and Vegas. The AC hotels, including the Borgata are no match for the LasVegas Hotels. None of the AC hotels are rated as high as Vegas... and some of them like Trump, Bally's and Hilton are pretty dismal. Why mention this? Well if you have generally negative comments about the B'walk... and so-so comments about the hotels... it doesn't bode well for AC.

I know, I know....Orlando and Vegas have crime too and bla-bla-bla.... but the public perception is different.

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http://www.tripadvisor.com/Hotels-g29750-Atlantic_City_New_Jersey-Hotels.html

http://las-vegas-hotels.tripadvisor.com/Hotels-g45963-Las_Vegas_Nevada-Hotels.html

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[66nexus]

With 11 casinos—and only one of them in the past 15 years built to the luxury standards of the Strip—Atlantic City is far from Las Vegas by any definition. By most measures, Las Vegas out-sizes Atlantic City (number of guestrooms, square feet of convention and exhibit space, restaurants, spas, shopping, etc.). For years Atlantic City has been labeled a smaller, frumpier sibling.
http://www.hotelmotel.com/hotelmotel/data/articlestandard//hotelmotel/142008/507672/i2_t.jpg (http://www.hotelmotel.com/hotelmotel/Columns/Atlantic-City-trumps-Vegas-for-Service/ArticleStandard/Article/detail/507672#)

Market Metrix casino index
But according to a new casino study, some things are changing. Atlantic City is now challenging Las Vegas in fundamental measures including guest satisfaction and certain emotional experiences. Compared to the Las Vegas Strip, Atlantic City guests are more satisfied with their hotel and casino experience and, in turn, are more likely to recommend Atlantic City hotels and casinos to others. For example, Atlantic City guests are impressed with Harrah's service and employee attitudes and love The Borgata Hotel Casino & Spa's celebrity-chef-run restaurants.



Atlantic City hotels and casinos also get higher marks for pampering their guests. Here are some comments about why guests feel pampered:

The quality of their goods is excellent. I stayed in the suite, which offers a huge bathroom, ceiling-to-floor windows and an unusually comfortable bed.
Lots of comfortable pillows and a fruit basket.
Atlantic City has an advantage in its pursuit of Las Vegas-size success. It used to be a popular destination, a summer resort for the wealthy, before Las Vegas existed. The Borgata's success, and New Jersey's low tax rate, is paving the way for a wave of multibillion-dollar resorts.
And while the Market Metrix results show that customers generally are pleased with the new Atlantic City hotels and casinos, there is, of course, The Boardwalk, the ocean and the beach...Look out, here comes Atlantic City's transformation.

http://www.hotelmotel.com/hotelmotel/Columns/Atlantic-City-trumps-Vegas-for-Service/ArticleStandard/Article/detail/507672



this is my response to tripadvisor reviews

[66nexus]

Okay Fab, since we're posting opinions now...

The above is a customer satisfaction article which I am sure some of you will immediately dismiss while accepting tripadvisor comments.

It is going to take A WHOLE LOT more to change the perception people have of AC than restoring the B'walk. That end of the B'walk could be restored tomorrow, people are still going to find the gritty and dirty of the city which is certainly not limited to the B'walk.

And in response to Vegas hotels getting rated better...no kidding. The only new casino AC has is the Borgata.

People tend to keep forgetting that most of the Vegas Strip casinos are relatively new (when Vegas experienced its construct-boom) and almost every one of them is newer than AC's casinos save for a few...so they had BETTER be rated higher

When AC experiences its own boom (if it shall continue) then we'll make the comparison. But comparing the Taj Mahal to something like the Wynn is ridiculous. And as I've said, Harrah's AC already overtakes Harrah's Vegas in modern quality

[Intheknow]

Atlantic City can build ten new Casinos AND have a beautiful boardwalk and beach.

Why do we always compare ourselves to Vegas? We should strive to have Vegas compare themselves to AC.

It's not that difficult to transform AC, if we could only rid ourselves of the corruption and lose the me,me,me attitude. We are all in this together, the self serving attitude is sucking this City dry.

[Fabrizio]

The MarketMetrix Index proves that:

Atlantic City is cooler than Vegas. It's hipper. It's more sophisticated. It's more pampering.... more satisfying.

Gee.... who knew?

AC should really hire someone to hand out flyers on the Boardwalk with that index printed on it.

Cooler than Vegas.... gotta get the word out.

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[66nexus]

I don't believe the article was getting across that AC was 'cooler' or 'hipper' (which it ain't), it indicated the guests experiences...

'Compared to the Las Vegas Strip, Atlantic City guests are more satisfied with their hotel and casino experience and, in turn, are more likely to recommend Atlantic City hotels and casinos to others. For example, Atlantic City guests are impressed with Harrah's service and employee attitudes and love The Borgata Hotel Casino & Spa's celebrity-chef-run restaurants.'

And yes, InTK, even though I've been guilty of it in the past I too tire of the Vegas comparison.

[Fabrizio]

What on earth is an "Emotion Score"? Please explain.

Let's see: I'm in AC and I feel hipper and cooler... uh... or.... the casinos feel hipper and cooler? They're more sophisticated than those in Vegas? Or they make me feel more sophisticated? What's the deal?

(I can just imagine the people they surveyed...why do I have have a feeling they were all from South Jersey... :) )


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v33/ronaldo/Immagine4.jpg

[STT757]

AC visitors have a slightly higher income, that generally reflects the market within 2-3 hours drive from AC is generally some of the wealthiest in the nation. Proves there a market for more Borgata's, Waterclubs etc..

I would have loved if Trump Marina were turned into a Hard Rock Hotel and Casino, AC needs one. The one in Tampa I visited was very nice.

[STT757]

Sad news for the folks involved in the Revel project:

8 Killed in Small Jet Crash in Minnesota

By AMY FORLITI, AP

OWATONNA, Minn. (July 31) - A small jet crashed Thursday while preparing to land at a regional airport in Minnesota, killing eight people, including casino and construction executives.

Authorities initially thought nine people may have been aboard the Raytheon Hawker 800, which went down about 9:30 a.m. at a regional airport about 60 miles south of the Twin Cities.
But by late evening, Department of Public Safety spokesman Doug Neville said it had been confirmed that eight people were on board.
Seven people were dead at the scene. One died later at a hospital. The plane was carrying two pilots.
Severe weather had been moving through southern Minnesota earlier Thursday, but witnesses and the National Weather Service said the storms were subsiding at the time of the crash. It wasn't immediately clear if weather was a factor.
The charter jet, flying from Atlantic City, N.J., to Owatonna, a town of 25,000, went down in a cornfield northwest of Degner Regional Airport, Sheriff Gary Ringhofer said. The wreckage was not visible to reporters because tall corn obscured the crash site.
The debris was scattered 500 feet beyond the airport's runway. Late Thursday, the Dakota County coroner was on the scene working to identify victims.
Cameron Smith, a mechanic at the airport, said he spoke by radio with the jet's pilot just minutes before the crash. The pilot was about to land and was asking where he should park for fuel, Smith said.
He ran to the crash scene to see if anyone could be helped, but saw only a long skid path and debris that he described as "shredded."

He said: "There was no fuselage. There were just parts."
The plane had been scheduled to land at 9:42 a.m., then take off at 11:40 a.m. for Crossville, Tenn.
The only crash victim publicly identified as of early Thursday evening was Karen Sandland, 44, a project manager on the Revel casino project who worked out of Tishman Construction's Newark, N.J. office, company spokesman Bud Perrone said. She was the only Tishman employee on board, said Richard M. Kielar, the company's senior vice president.

Atlantic City Mayor Scott Evans said two high-ranking Revel executives also were among the victims, but he declined to identify them.
Revel CEO Kevin DeSanctis issued a statement Thursday night mourning the loss of employees from his company, Tishman and APG International, a Glassboro, N.J., company that specializes in glass facades. DeSanctis did not identify the victims or say how many of his company's employees died.
APG's telephone rang unanswered Thursday night, and no one immediately responded to a fax sent to the company seeking comment.
Don Pyatt, president of glass company Viracon, told the Owatonna People's Press that the customers were from "a couple of different companies" who were coming to the plant to discuss a project in Las Vegas.
Mary Ann Jackson, a spokeswoman for Viracon's parent company, Apogee Enterprises Inc., confirmed to the AP that those on board were Viracon customers, but declined to provide other details. She said no Viracon employees were involved in the crash.
The airport lies alongside Interstate 35 as it skirts Owatonna's western edge. The airport's Web site describes it as "ideal for all classes of corporate aircraft use" with an all-weather instrument landing system.
Sharon Gordon, a spokeswoman for the South Jersey Transportation Authority, which operates Atlantic City International Airport, said the East Coast Jets plane landed at the airport at 7:10 a.m. from its base in Allentown, Pa.
It picked up several passengers and left at 8:13 a.m., requiring no services on the ground.

http://news.aol.com/article/7-killed-in-small-jet-crash-in-minnesota/112002?icid=100214839x1206483496x1200356442

[American Gaming Guru]

Just so everyone gets an idea of what is going on out there, you might want to read this before taking additional cheap shots at Pinnacle and Barr/Bashaw:

Boyd Soars on Suspended Project, Earnings

2008-08-01 12:12:22.0

BYD (http://www.thestreet.com/quote/BYD.html?omorig=story&puc=tickertop) LVS (http://www.thestreet.com/quote/LVS.html?omorig=story&puc=tickertop) MHGC (http://www.thestreet.com/quote/MHGC.html?omorig=story&puc=tickertop) PENN (http://www.thestreet.com/quote/PENN.html?omorig=story&puc=tickertop) WYNN (http://www.thestreet.com/quote/WYNN.html?omorig=story&puc=tickertop)


http://i.thestreet.com/files/tsc/v2008/css/images/arrow.gif Nicholas Yulico (http://www.thestreet.com/_yahoo/newsanalysis/realestate/10431505.html?cm_ven=YAHOO&cm_cat=FREE&cm_ite=NA#)





Boyd Gaming (BYD (http://www.thestreet.com/quote/BYD.html?omorig=story&puc=tickerembedded) - Cramer's Take (http://www.thestreet.com/cramerstake/BYD.html) - Stockpickr (http://www.stockpickr.com/thestreet-symbol/BYD/)) is surging more than 20% Friday after the casino owner said it would delay construction of Echelon Place, a giant Las Vegas development that investors viewed increasingly as a risky undertaking.
Today's news is great for shareholders. Boyd's stock has been pummeled this year by the bearish thesis that Echelon Place would destroy the company's (http://www.thestreet.com/_yahoo/newsanalysis/realestate/10431505.html?cm_ven=YAHOO&cm_cat=FREE&cm_ite=NA#) value -- because of concerns about what sort of financing and returns on capital Boyd could achieve for the project.
As a reminder, Boyd is rated a stock to own in my Bricks and Mortar mock portfolio.
Echelon is a $4.8 billion project planned for the northern part of the Las Vegas Strip, near where Wynn (WYNN (http://www.thestreet.com/quote/WYNN.html?omorig=story&puc=tickerembedded) - Cramer's Take (http://www.thestreet.com/cramerstake/WYNN.html) - Stockpickr (http://www.stockpickr.com/thestreet-symbol/WYNN/)) is building its next property, Encore.
Some people thought Boyd would break its debt (http://www.thestreet.com/_yahoo/newsanalysis/realestate/10431505.html?cm_ven=YAHOO&cm_cat=FREE&cm_ite=NA#) covenants if it went ahead with the project today, and there was also worry that Morgans Hotel (MHGC (http://www.thestreet.com/quote/MHGC.html?omorig=story&puc=tickerembedded) - Cramer's Take (http://www.thestreet.com/cramerstake/MHGC.html) - Stockpickr (http://www.stockpickr.com/thestreet-symbol/MHGC/)) would not have the money to fund the joint venture piece of the Echelon development.
"It's a big relief. Clearly investors didn't want to see them go ahead in this type of credit market," says Eric Green, portfolio manager at Penn Capital Management (http://www.thestreet.com/_yahoo/newsanalysis/realestate/10431505.html?cm_ven=YAHOO&cm_cat=FREE&cm_ite=NA#), which owns Boyd shares.
Boyd had said it could use its line of credit and funds on hand to build the project, but typically developers get construction financing for new projects. The worry was that Boyd would get unattractive financing rates or none at all -- given the difficult credit markets today. The simple takeaway from the news today is that Boyd is now a much less risky stock. The company can now focus more closely on its portfolio of existing properties, which include casinos catering to residents in Las Vegas, casinos in the Midwest and the hip Borgata Casino in Atlantic City, N.J., that Boyd jointly owns with MGM Mirage (MGM (http://www.thestreet.com/quote/MGM.html?omorig=story&puc=tickerembedded) - Cramer's Take (http://www.thestreet.com/cramerstake/MGM.html) - Stockpickr (http://www.stockpickr.com/thestreet-symbol/MGM/)).

[kliq6]

Boyd got in over there head and now are looking at a way out, they will ty and sell this thing as fast as they can. Know way they are going to just pick it up 18 months from now.

Not a good sign for the industry and AC is dealing with MGM not moving forward as quick as they has wanted so overall times look bad

[American Gaming Guru]

It is really too bad. I love the company and its leadership. The development team, headed up by Bob Boughner is one of the best in the business. I was excited for this one.

I highly doubt they sell it. Unfortunately as we have seen, it just makes absolutely no sense to go to the capital markets right now. I really hope it works out for them.

As it is relevant to this post, people simply suggest that companies trying to develop in AC are there just to flip land. Which ultimately may be the case, due to these financial circumstances, but I know as a fact their original intentions were sincere as they obviously were with BYD in Vegas.

BTW. I am staying at The Chelsea this weekend. I will try and take more construction pics for everyone.

[Intheknow]

It was all so very obvious. People, understandably, and City's(AC) get all excited at the prospects of new development- as my father always said "check the finances of anyone you do business with" sound, solid advice that has served me well.

Talk is cheap, building a Casino is not.

[Intheknow]

Hey guru, Ask for Annie @ the Chelsea, tell her I sent you, maybe she'll buy you a drink.

Stake out the site of Bashaws "proposed Casino" and take some pics, get the park and Monument, I'd appreciate it. Be careful on the boardwalk, you may fall through. Check out the sand berms, then walk down in front of Enclave Condominium, where there is a break in them, and look at the Ocean from the boardwalk, that's what it's all about.

Good luck!

[Intheknow]

Check MGM stock price.

Hmmmmmmm.

[Intheknow]

[quote=zipburn;240163]Wrong again. Not that im suprised. MGM doesn't need financing it has the resources to build whatever shape the US economy is in as it is a GLOBAL company. Maybe you should put a hold on your posts for 4-7 years by then maybe you will finally be "Intheknow". Revel is on target for its 2010 opening. The only thing sad is what you have done to this thread.

Sad but true. Apologies accepted.

[zipburn]

Apologize for what that your a pessimistic ass clown? Markets go up and down like a sine curve it isn't always going to be peachy The fact there is still progress going on now is testament to what Atlantic City will become. Stop complaing about the same worthless crap day after day on this board! The city is slammed tonite, hmmm.... I wonder why? Gas Prices dropped roughly 30 cents.... it doesn't take a genius to figure out why Atlantic City and the rest of the gaming markets have been struggling. Atlantic City is progressing slowly and surely but it isn't good enough for you so you put down every poster that posts something positive. Its annoying to see your constant bitching and whining. What should AGG do at the Chelsea? Ask for Annie, and say what that he knows the "debbie downer" from the messageboard and he can hope that she "might" buy him a drink. I don't know about him but if Annie is a friend of yours im pretty sure I wouldn't want to hang out with her. This board is about development projects involving Atlantic City, not about regurgiated half truths and crazy rumors. If you don't like improvements made to the city then stop posting here. It really is quite simple, this isn't the Atlantic City Government forum.

[giselehaslice]

I echo the fact that AC is packed with people.
I was there last night and enjoyed an excellent dinner at Buddakan at the Pier at Caesars. The place was jammed, did'nt thin out until after 12:00. After that, it was time for the boardwalk. Still jammed with people after 12:30. Music at the Beach Bars was blaring and created an energetic atmosphere.

Sorry, couldnt get any construction pics 'cause we got there after dark. Next time =).

American Gaming Guru, could you please take some pics? Have a nice stay at the Chelsea also...

[Intheknow]

Apologize for what that your a pessimistic ass clown? Markets go up and down like a sine curve it isn't always going to be peachy The fact there is still progress going on now is testament to what Atlantic City will become. Stop complaing about the same worthless crap day after day on this board! The city is slammed tonite, hmmm.... I wonder why? Gas Prices dropped roughly 30 cents.... it doesn't take a genius to figure out why Atlantic City and the rest of the gaming markets have been struggling. Atlantic City is progressing slowly and surely but it isn't good enough for you so you put down every poster that posts something positive. Its annoying to see your constant bitching and whining. What should AGG do at the Chelsea? Ask for Annie, and say what that he knows the "debbie downer" from the messageboard and he can hope that she "might" buy him a drink. I don't know about him but if Annie is a friend of yours im pretty sure I wouldn't want to hang out with her. This board is about development projects involving Atlantic City, not about regurgiated half truths and crazy rumors. If you don't like improvements made to the city then stop posting here. It really is quite simple, this isn't the Atlantic City Government forum.
So your not man enough to say you were wrong. Development projects are dead throughout the USA and the world.
You may say you are posting something positive, but it's not true. Yes the town is bumping tonight, but it can do 100 times better, is that negative? Shoot for the moon you may land on a star.
Again, I only state fact, the credit crunch is far from over, believe me, I'm in the business.
Don't talk bad about Annie, you don't know her. Speak bad about me, I could give a shit. I can tell you don't know what your talking about.
I regurgitate nothing, I go by what I hear from people on the streets, people serving food and drinks, and the many people that serve you free drinks while you piss your money away at slots.
I heard the party at the Chelsea was jamming tonight. Good food and drink, plenty of "up-scale" people, let's see if it can be sustained.

[Intheknow]

[quote=giselehaslice;243719]I echo the fact that AC is packed with people.
I was there last night and enjoyed an excellent dinner at Buddakan at the Pier at Caesars. The place was jammed, did'nt thin out until after 12:00. After that, it was time for the boardwalk. Still jammed with people after 12:30. Music at the Beach Bars was blaring and created an energetic atmosphere.

Buddakan in Philadelphis is much better. Boardwalk is poorly lit, and lacking police presence. Can't you people imagine what the boardwalk could be like? Take a look at the pics from Fabrizio of Disney world and tell me that wouldn't be better.

I want this City to be World Class! It won't take much, am I wrong?

[zipburn]

Intheknow, thanks for questioning my manhood. The triathlon I competed in this morning seemed kind of femine. Its always nice to know that someone "in the business" has no clue what they are doing or even understands basic proven business concepts. Since when do food and beverage employees amount to anything other then entry level jobs in a casino service industry? With the exception being management. What streets do people talk to you on? Pacific Ave. from 10pm-6am? They are service industry employees too. Or is it the illegals pushing their seed babies in strollers along atlantic ave? In all honesty its hard for me to imagine that you actually run a business. It just doesn't add up.

[giselehaslice]

Buddakan in Philadelphis is much better. Boardwalk is poorly lit, and lacking police presence. Can't you people imagine what the boardwalk could be like? Take a look at the pics from Fabrizio of Disney world and tell me that wouldn't be better.

I want this City to be World Class! It won't take much, am I wrong?

Uh, is'nt it the same restaurant? How can one be better than the other if they have the same exact menu? And the Decor at the AC one is definatley more well planned than the one in Philly. Also, the one in Philly is basically in a Ghost town after 9pm, not the case in AC.

And also, no way do I want Atlantic City to become Disney world. I dont even know why a grown-ups "playground" should model itself after that. They are complete opposite ends of the spectrum.

Lighting on the Boardwalk was 100% better this time than it was last time, so again, wrong.

Yes, AC can be world class, but it'll take alot of Vision, which you should leave to the professionals.

[Fabrizio]

Disney's understanding of architecture and urban planning is actually very sophisticated. There is indeed a lot to learn from them... as much as from Vegas and SoBeach.

Yes, Disney is a family resort, but that's exactly what LasVegas has been so smart to do: diversify it's offerings.

After 30 years of gambling revenues and a city-scape that, 2 blocks off of the b'walk still looks mostly like Camden, taking a pointer or 2 from other successful resorts might not be such a bad idea.

The city should be beautiful and pleasant enough to attract vacationers with or with out gambling... why not?

It is also a shame that with the dollar so low, Atlantic City can't even capitalize on the big-spending European traveler the way NYC, Vegas and Miami can: Europeans, for the most part, would never think of spending time in a place that looks like AC. Yes, I know.... Vegas is a dump off of the strip and bla-bla-bla.... but the international perception of the place is quite different.

Another view of the Inlet (?):

http://www.flickr.com/photos/bmslou/2704784925/sizes/o/

--

[Intheknow]

My opinion may differ from yours, that doesn't make me wrong. I have very high standards, it's easier to do something right the first time then to do a half-ass job over and over again.
Our boardwalk can be the best in the world with very little effort, we have the money-100 million for new facades, sickening! Clear the sand berms so we can see the ocean, they protect nothing. If there were a "100 year storm" these would be wiped out in minutes.
Many people and cities emulate successful people and cities for a reason, it's proven to be successful and it's less expensive and risky.
When I am wrong I'll be the first to admit it.

Bashaw will pull the plug on his casino project shortly. Please don't make me say I told you so.

I talk about AC Government because they waste taxpayers money, this money can be used to improve and develop the infrastructure of the City. The taxpayers pay more in lawsuits then anything else. The current president of City Council and the next Mayor(maybe) Langford were awarded 850,000 each, erroniously. Well they spent the money already after being told not to. They are now paying it back in a 30 year installment plan. These are the people leading our City. It's getting worse day by day. This is a fact.

[giselehaslice]

Well Fabrizio,
You have said that the old Dennis hotel reminds you of Albania, which happens to be in Europe. Maybe AC is appealing to Albanians. (Just Kidding).:D

No, Europeans would'nt spend time in AC, but why can you blame them? I would'nt spend time in not-so-beautiful parts of Europe either. But hopefully, maybe one day AC can cater to the international tourist.

InTheKnow, can you please just stop talking? Thanks.

[66nexus]

Sorry Fab, but you can't belittle the similarity that people like to dismiss, yes, Vegas is mostly a dump off the strip.

AC's perception comes from its turbulent past. Just as Vegas' did

I'm pretty sure a lot of visitors weren't too big on Vegas before its mega-casinos. Vegas had almost a century of gambling compared to AC's casinos and it only really got hot in the late 80's early 90's. Unfair comparison.


There's several inconsistencies here:

First, some argue that AC is still mostly a dump even with the casinos-

Then the same folks say that they miss the 'old charm' of AC....you know, the same place people rejected which made AC the dump it became.


PS: AC still draws millions of tourists a year (Regardless how close or far they live, if someone does not like a place then they won't go there...simple)

[Fabrizio]

AC's perception comes from its turbulent past.

No. AC's perception comes from it's present state.

------

From today's Atlantic City Press.... about AC's "World Famous Boardwalk":

ATLANTIC CITY - Rosie Cozzi hasn't been staying in Atlantic City long, but she already knows one section of the Boardwalk to avoid.
"That's why I get off here," the New York woman said as she headed down the ramp onto New Hampshire Avenue.
"It's too bad over there," she added, gesturing toward Maine Avenue. "You trip."
During her first walk in the area Friday night, Cozzi did just that. The next day, an Atlantic City Electric truck got caught in the same spot as it answered a call on the Boardwalk. A wheel went through the wood.
After conducting a study on the Boardwalk, Business Administrator Carol Fredericks wrote memos to Mayor Scott Evans and other city legislators stressing the importance of repairing the famous stretch. It has been about 13 years since major repairs were performed.

Plans are in the works to fix many of the Boardwalk's problem spots, Councilman Dennis Mason said.
But the Inlet area will not be where the work begins in September. That location likely will be included in next year's budget, he said.
Until then, that area will give those walking in certain spots a little more bounce in their walk, as boards move under their weight.
"I felt some boards give," Jim Powell said, as he sat on a bench with his wife, Brenda, and son, Aaron, 14, near Seaside Avenue.
"Of the boardwalks we've been to, this is definitely not one of the nicer ones," Brenda Powell said. "I hit a couple where it felt like they were going to flip up a little."
In comparison, Jim Powell said their Saturday night visit to Ocean City's wooden way was much more pleasant.
Mason, who heads the city's Planning and Development Committee, said the budget allows for the more-trafficked areas to be dealt with this year.
"The Boardwalk Hall area has been bad for quite a while," he said. "That's going to happen right away. At the same time, we're redoing from Texas to Albany avenues."
Revel Entertainment is also committed to fixing a large section of Boardwalk where it's building a $2 billion megaresort.
"According to the company, they have an extensive Boardwalk-restoration program," Revel spokesman Joseph Jaffoni said Monday.
The plan starts at Showboat and would run about six blocks to Rhode Island Avenue, Jaffoni said.
A $900,000 estimate of that area "is a fraction of what they're going to be spending there," he said. A more specific amount was not available.
The city will be responsible for the New Hampshire side, which shouldn't have to wait too long into the next year to see improvements, Mason theorized. That work should bring the repairs into the long-neglected Boardwalk that wraps around the Inlet at Maine Avenue toward Atlantic Avenue.
In the meantime, Mason plans to introduce an ordinance at the next council meeting that would ban all vehicular traffic on the Boardwalk except in emergencies. That would mean a change to the current practice of having police cars patrol the walkway as part of their duties.
"I think I'll have to have a sit-down with the chief (of police, John Mooney)," said Mason, a retired police officer. "I think we should utilize the bicycles up there anyway because they can get in and out of the people traffic quicker."
When Mason first joined the force, he said foot patrols were common on the Boardwalk, with posts every two blocks.
"I don't worry because I have a lightweight truck," said C.B. Sapp, a city plumber who drives up at various spots to check the Beach Patrol stations' plumbing.
The 25-year city employee said he only goes up on the Boardwalk at designated spots. During his visit to the New Hampshire Avenue station, he covered a patch of the walk barely more than the length of his city truck.
But Emanuel Valentine, 16, seemed apprehensive riding in the area on a much lighter vehicle - his bike.
"I'm not too comfortable with it," he said
Valentine just moved to the Inlet and had not been on the Boardwalk there until Monday.
"It feels like you might fall," he said.
Cozzi - whose early exit at New Hampshire Avenue still led her through some questionable boards - walked gingerly as she came from the Boardwalk at Seaside Avenue. That area already is closed to vehicles.
"It's treacherous," she said. "They should have signs that say, 'Be careful.'"

[giselehaslice]

I've been on the boardwalk hundreds if not thousands of times before and have never tripped. So I do'nt know what they're talking about. I've tripped on Ocean City's boardwalk before, but I'm not complaining about it. People really are just a bunch of Cry-babies. Its wood, it warps, especially in salt air. GET OVER IT! People are'nt falling thru and getting sucked up by quicksand, thank god. That would be a problem worth complaining about.

And I would definatley say that people's perception comes from the past views of AC too. If people made there perception on what AC is today, they would say "WOW, this city has come a long way. It doesnt look like the same place." No question about it.

[66nexus]

No Fab, all those empty lots and dollar stores and the millions of other things you guys say that's wrong with the city did not get there overnight. A lot of that crap (damn near all of it) is from AC's troubled past.

You wouldn't get smoker's lung from smoking one cigarette...

and BTW, I have no idea why you posted that article

that only proves the present condition of the B'walk, which didn't happen overnight...you said AC's perception comes from its present-state...how do you figure it got there? Please don't say the casinos

[Intheknow]

Our world famous boardwalk is closed on the south end, pavilions are in disarray or missing roofs, it is being neglected. I don't understand most of your reasoning.
The more people that come to the City the better for the Casinos and their restaurants, even if they are not gamblers.

Atlantic City can be a great resort and casino town at the same time- with very little effort. With development money at a stand still the CITY should concentrate on spending CRDA money on the boardwalk and beach so future developers will have more reason to develop here. Everything is connected.

[giselehaslice]

CRDA did/is spending money on the boardwalk, the facades.

I wish there was an ignore button on this forum filtering "all annoying and redundant posts", because I would be using it ALL the time.

If all you have to do is complain, we dont want you here. It's as simple as that. Maybe you should make another thread "A pessimistic person's view of Atlantic City."

[Intheknow]

I'd rather piss you off and prove you wrong. Gee, did you see the new facade on that pizza joint, how about the massage parlor-just wonderful. All for the bargain price of $100,000,000.

[Fabrizio]

and BTW, I have no idea why you posted that article


Again you "have no idea" why I posted an article. Are you able to follow a thread? Let me walk you through this. Please pay attention:

1 - Someone posted a picture of a broken-down section of the boardwalk.

2 - we discussed this broken-down section of the boardwalk.

3- just by chance the Press had an article about this broken-down section of the boardwalk.

4 - sooooo I posted the article.... why?....(now pay attention here) because it pertains to the discussion.

Got it? Clear enough?

----

Nexus: 25-30 years ago NYC was a crime ridden mess. The city was collapsing. The popular perception, it's reputation among average Americans, was very, very poor. NYC was all about muggings and murders... graffiti covered subway trains, garbage strewn streets, druggies, prostitutes, the squalid TimesSquare.....

Today, NYC is seen as a great vacation place... a place to buy a luxury condo. It is known as the biggest city in the US with the lowest crime rate. It is perceved internationaly as a glittering glamorous place.

It's "troubled past" has nothing to do with the popular perception of today's NYC. None. It is a distant memory.

And remember too: In the 1970's, every major American city, large and small, was in the dumps.

The problem with AC, is that 2 blocks off the B'walk, in large stretches of town, very visible to visitors, it's still 1975. (Actually, I say it's worse... but we can dispute that... ).

And this is 30 years after casino gambling... so it has more to do with inept government and planning, lack of vision, and people who constantly, like you folks, make excuses and have low expectations. It is a slothful way of thinking.

In the meantime, Las Vegas is developing a 61 acre new downtown with an Alzheimer’s research center designed by Frank Gehry; a 60-story international center for jewelry trading, a hotel by the chef Charlie Palmer; thousands of residential units and square feet of office space, and a $360 million performing arts center... all designed to be a walkable pleasant neighborhood with nothing to do with gambling.

AS WELL as: MGM's 9 BILLION dollar CityCenter project with work by architects Cesar Pelli, Rafael Vinoly, Norman Foster and Helmut Jahn.

Las Vegas is attracting this kind of serious architectural talent while the Hotel Dennis is painted in clown colors.... and you guys think it's just nifty.

(While we're at it let's also mention Steve Wynn's $2.3 BILLION Encore casino with 2,000 luxury rooms opening this year).

The B'walk is falling apart in places? Well gee.... "get over it"! Hey... it sits there all day long in the salt air.... wadda you want? If you don't like it.... go home. Let's hide behind AC's "troubled past".

Completely ignoring and making excuses for the fact that it has not been repaired in 13 years! This is a city that is raking in millions in gaming revenues!! And it has not been pepaired in 13 years?

But..... hey.... if you don't like it go home.

In the meantime, go to TripAdvisor (the most consulted website of it's kind) type in "Atlantic City Boardwalk" and you get scathing, negative review, after negative review from all over the country. Gee.... duh....I wonder why that is?

But THOSE PEOPLE ARE WRONG. I have a survey here that says that AC is cooler, hipper.... whatever.

AC's own newspaper reports on it, interviewing tourists....but those people are wrong too!! Hey, doesn't Vegas have potholes?

Oh boy...

To a traveller that is spending their good money, it matters nothing that AC is improving... it means nothing that it's come a long way. In today's market, with so much competition, AC better be prepared. Period.

But no... on this thread, among people that claim to love AC, we hear them defending a broken down boardwalk.

Do you guys ever read the NYC threads on this forum? You don't hear people making excuses for mediocrity.

I know AC longer than any of you. Visiting as child during the 60's... living there... returning now and then. Having friends there among the old guard, including a former mayor and his wife. My family has been involved in SoJersey business and politics for most of the last century. We are talking about my home.

So please... when I see the B'walk in that condition, I will speak up.

---

[Intheknow]

Amen.

[66nexus]

^You know what Fab? Fine. You win. So my question for you now is simply this: why don't you move on to a new city that better suits your idea of what a city is?

If AC is so bad, and they just let the city go waste and so on, why are you still torturing yourself? All those cities you name and compare AC to, why don't you exercise your envy and go support one of them? The whining for someone your age about AC is so consistent it's almost unreal.

A new building pops up, you'll find everything wrong with it.

Your argument is the usual (and getting terribly old): "they destroyed all that beautiful architecture _____(*sniff* place tears here)"

NYC is a HORRIBLE comparison to AC. AC's only real market is tourism, people don't go...the place will fall apart. NYC, although tourism is a huge factor it is not the only factor.

To ignore a city's past is choosing to accept ignorance. You, having lived there should know that AC's current state has EVERY-SINGLE-THING to do with its past. You think the casinos were voted in because they just wanted have them there?? No sir! The place was a bigger dump than it is now...the casinos are literally glorified charity and its not a secret. You can really sit there and tell me that AC's current state has nothing to do with its past? You've gone mad.

I'm not a moderator so you don't have to defend the relation to the subject, I was attacking the relevance of the articles you posted.

You know AC longer than any of us...I will buy you the first medal I can find, but until then please understand that it does not make the rest of us ignorant to AC just because we haven't been around since the 60's

[Fabrizio]

1 - I live in Italy.

2 - Expecting the best for a city that I do care about for you is whining. Seeing the b'walk in that shape for you is just peachy.

3 - The ONE person who is consistent and one-note on this thread is you my dear defending every aspect of AC. That is truly unreal.

[66nexus]

1 - I live in Italy.

2 - Expecting the best for a city that I do care about for you is whining.

3 - The ONE person who is consistent and one-note on this thread is you my dear defending every aspect of AC. That is truly unreal.

Oh well hell, that just means you either don't read my posts because you felt insulted, or you're simply getting me confused with the one of the other posters (as evidenced by your assuming my position on the B'walk matter...which I barely commented on).

'Defending every aspect of AC'...I couldn't begin to imagine how you came up with that conclusion. (perhaps because I don't agree with you, and I'm certainly not the only one)

If I am a 'defender', then you sir are the ultimate offender, I see the good in the city while acknowledging the bad. You only acknowledge the bad.

and all the 'tripadvisors' couldn't stop the millions of tourists who still go to AC.

[Fabrizio]

You've convinced me.

Actually AC could even capitalize on it's "troubled past" by creating, from Pacific Avenue to the bay, a giant 1970's ghetto theme-park. Build rides going through the abandoned buildings and empty lots.

Or at least plant potatoes.

Rotting Boardwalk? Dress it with sea-weed and do a sea-monster display.... and charge money for it. (make it look even creepier than the Hotel Dennis)

Do a Madame Tussaude's Hall-of-Corruption Pavillion on Gardener's pier with present and past polititians. If there's enough room.

Oh and about Tripadvisor: you really should go on there and set people straight: people are STILL coming to AC, so who-the-hell-cares what they have to say.

You should tell them to stop snitchin'

Tell them they're a bunch of whiners.... what do they expect for 300 dollars a night?.... LasVegas doesn't even HAVE a boardwalk to fall through.

And anyway: what AC needs is less whiners and more winos!



---

[American Gaming Guru]

WOW! Well, I am pretty consistent too. I am always definitely up-beat about the city. I acknowledge its faults and shortfalls, but I am very optimistic about its future and "pockets of progress".

Sorry folks, I unfortunately did not take any other pics.....I was having to much fun with my friends all weekend.

The Chelsea looks spectacular. Unfortunately, the restaurants and bars were still not open. I heard that they were delayed due to delays getting the CofO form the city. The hotel did right by its guests though. It provided free modest meals and threw massive well-done cocktail parties on both Friday and Saturday. The place was PACKED and the pool scene felt like somthing right out of South Beach.

The hotel still has a ways to go before it is fully up and operational, but I must say that the attention to detail is evident in the construction and really offers a nice addition to the city.

[Triborough]

The best way to sum up Atlantic City is Newark by the Sea, with casinos!

[kliq6]

[quote=zipburn;240163]Wrong again. Not that im suprised. MGM doesn't need financing it has the resources to build whatever shape the US economy is in as it is a GLOBAL company. Maybe you should put a hold on your posts for 4-7 years by then maybe you will finally be "Intheknow". Revel is on target for its 2010 opening. The only thing sad is what you have done to this thread.

Sad but true. Apologies accepted.

MGM has no problem, its 40% owned by Dubaii

[kliq6]

You've convinced me.

Actually AC could even capitalize on it's "troubled past" by creating, from Pacific Avenue to the bay, a giant 1970's ghetto theme-park. Build rides going through the abandoned buildings and empty lots.

Or at least plant potatoes.

Rotting Boardwalk? Dress it with sea-weed and do a sea-monster display.... and charge money for it. (make it look even creepier than the Hotel Dennis)

Do a Madame Tussaude's Hall-of-Corruption Pavillion on Gardener's pier with present and past polititians. If there's enough room.

Oh and about Tripadvisor: you really should go on there and set people straight: people are STILL coming to AC, so who-the-hell-cares what they have to say.

You should tell them to stop snitchin'

Tell them they're a bunch of whiners.... what do they expect for 300 dollars a night?.... LasVegas doesn't even HAVE a boardwalk to fall through.

And anyway: what AC needs is less whiners and more winos!



---


Love the ghetto theme park. Your right on the money Fab. Ive been going to AC for 15 years and have family that lived in the area. The fact is that the boardwalk is in bad shape, the tarot card and back rub places are all to prvelant and the city outside of the area right near the casino's is a bad as its ever been. Now I dont agree with saying things have to stay the same and new developments like Revel and Borgata have helped liven up the place but the city overall still needs alot of help.

[Fabrizio]

Oh God.... another WiredNy whiner.

Why don't you just all stay away!:

"I visited Atlantic City once back in the early 90's and was NOT impressed. It was a cold, grey, uninviting experience..." - microserf

"Atlantic City thread gets less than 10 posts in almost 2 years! Shows that AC doesn't hold much mystery or intrigue ..." - Lofter

"Place is a mess." - Ablarc

"Surrounded by a giant ghetto." - Stache

"You'd think all the sleaze squeezed out of Times Square would have relocated here, maybe just off the Boardwalk. Is it zoned out?" - ablarc

"Last time I was there AC itself made me queasy" - Lofter

"The casinos in AC blow. " - G_Money

"Besides the boardwalk, what else is there? Seriously, it's mosty wasteland/ghetto." - Marv95

"just can't see people saying.."Let's go take a weeks vacation in AC." -
voodoochild

"I was in Atlantic City two summers ago for a day trip. Hadn't been there since I was a little kid, so I didn't really know what to expect. The city itself was a dump." - Pianoman.

And it goes on and on.

[66nexus]

^What does it prove?

how do you explain the phenomenon then Fab? You could quote every wiredNyer that ever posted, the simple fact you absolutely nothing for is that millions of people still go...

I mean c'mon! Your answer to that was quoting people...on here!

I could listen to the same "oh AC is dirty this...AC has that..." and the Vegas comparisons and so on. The fact remains

It seems that everyone wants to start from the finish line. AC starts experiencing its first boom since the legalization of gambling, then all of a sudden you want it to be South Beach already.

What was Vegas before all those mega-casinos on the Strip? Since you love bringing up Vegas (as recommended before, you should just support that city)

[JCexpert558]

Everybody look, this thread is called AC seeks new image not lets all fight and crit. AC. Also Fabrizo, if you want to talk about AC's problems, start a new thread because nobody wants to her your crap about AC.

[66nexus]

WOW! Well, I am pretty consistent too. I am always definitely up-beat about the city. I acknowledge its faults and shortfalls, but I am very optimistic about its future and "pockets of progress".


Thank you. Apparently, on here this seems to be a crime.

[lofter1]

... Fabrizo, if you want to talk about AC's problems, start a new thread because nobody wants to her your crap about AC.


Speak for yourself, please.

Fabrizio's AC "crap" is the most entertaining thing about the town.

The place itself is dullsville.

[NYatKNIGHT]

I have to agree. It is absolutely legitimate for people to criticize. The thread is about Atlantic City seeking a new image. Bolstering AND criticism of that new image are fair game especially since, after all the time and the amount of money that could have been spent to improve the city itself, the city is where they are now. Insight to the past, especially architecturally, is appreciated. The remarkable thing is that Atlantic City is seeking Las Vegas' identity at all, when it should be seeking its own original but lost identity. So the new development most certainly should be scrutinized.

If anyone should start another thread its those that only want to talk about fun times in Atlantic City and how great it is. I don't know what good that does, but fine. Believe it or not though, this lively discussion is one of the most interesting I've ever read about the city and I hope it continues. Let's just please refrain from name-calling.

[American Gaming Guru]

Agreed, criticism is fair game, as long as we keep our facts straight. I don't think false rumors or speculation does anyone a service.

BTW. I forgot to report back to everyone on progress on The Chelsea.

Upon check-in this past weekend, guests were given a brochure that had the following "Opening Schedule":

Chelsea Luxe rooms: now available
Chelsea Prime, the 5th Floor, Teplitzky's: opening early August
Chelsea Lite rooms: opening mid-August
Sea Spa: opening mid-September

[66nexus]

Absolutely correct, AC should indeed chase its own identity instead of Vegas' which is why I hate Vegas-to-AC comparisons.

Casino themes are cool and everything but a major factor in why its just starting to experience a construction boom is that they started it wrong with structures like the Taj and Bally's.

I'm hopeful for the newer structures starting with the expansions, Revel etc.

[JCexpert558]

Well then im sorry Fabrizo for that.

[JCexpert558]

But I'm saying though ,AC isn't the worst place to be on earth.

[Intheknow]

Is calling someone a silly goose name calling?

Replace the boardwalk, make it wider, get rid of the sand berms, then we'll tackle the next obstacle. This can be accomplished quickly and efficiently.

Iraq is less depressing then Atlantic City if you live there, as I do. The reason I say this, it is so under-utilzed.

[zipburn]

I think most people interested in Atlantic City detest the comparison to Vegas, that being said Vegas is on the down swing. Where as Atlantic City is doing quite well for the shape the market is in right now. If gas prices continue to tumble I expect a strong month of August. They got a very good start this weekend as Sat. night seemed to be as crowded as July 4th. There is an already acknowledged point that seems to be brought up over and over again. We already know the government sucks, a bunch of crooked democrats. You got a mentally challenged, selected not elected mayor who walks down the street with a bunch of unskilled labor and its ok that it shuts down pacific ave. It's ashame the county can't take over the city that would be a real quick fix. Second the Schiff brothers which are glorified slum lords own most of those shops and are keeping the boardwalk from becoming something great. Another point Atlantic City isn't part of Mexico/Central America. People need to grow a pair and deport the illegal immigrants that are slowly destroying neighborhoods. The slumlords don't repair their propertys because of their illegal tenants. We all realize AC isn't perfect but some posters use backwards logic to justify putting down an investment that betters the city. If there were no sand dunes there would be no beach. Right now there is hardly anything left of a beach at states avenue. With out the dunes the water would be washing under the boardwalk. Progress is moving slowly but the city is much better then it was 10 to 20 years ago.

[giselehaslice]

This is seriously the most annoying thread on the entire board. It's just retarded how some people have to spend all there energy digging deep into this and/or other forums to show THEIR side to the point. It would make alot more sense if they showed a neutral view, but heck...what am I expecting? That's def. not possible with these Immature, Elitist, and crybaby members who think they know everything, but in reality just pretend to know it all.

SURE GLAD I DONT KNOW YOU GUYS, I WOULD WANT TO BLAST MY BRAINS OUT AROUND YOU!

Have a good night <3333 X0x0x0x0x0xx0
Love,
GISELE

[JCexpert558]

Really AC is not that bad, I mean there is alot of crime and stuff like that, but overall, it's a pretty good place, I mean it has the walk, Air show ,Sometimes they have those Import car shows, and a pretty decent Boardwalk. Also does anybody have any new info about Planet Hollywood coming to Atlantic City.

[Fabrizio]

About those sand dunes: I am wondering if that is the best solution for the problem of erosion. Is there any info out there about studies investigating this problem?

Amazing that AC was able to maintain for so long, such wide flat beaches. When did the problem of erosion start to occur? Was it caused by a change in tides? What's going on?

Considering AC's and NewJersey's famously corrupt way of doing things, I can only wonder if those huge, ugly, view blocking dunes are the best way to go. This IS a city that in it's modern day form seems to have no understanding of asthetics and the economic impact of ugliness.

Those weed covered dunes just could be a very heavy handed way of getting the job done... I would really like to know if there might be more pleasing solutions.

----

Below is a postcard of AC from the 1960's featuring the magnificent Traymore Hotel. I find it interesting how the Loews in Miami has picked up the architectural spirit of the Traymore (and how most present day towers in AC are so dreary by comparison):

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v33/ronaldo/337502965_7a3fc99586_b.jpg

[Intheknow]

AGG- Can you give a few more details of your stay at Chelsea? It is the newest development in AC. I thought Chelsea Prime was open, Tiplitzkys will not be open early August, did you look at it, if you did you'll have to agree.

[ZippyTheChimp]

Amazing that AC was able to maintain for so long, such wide flat beaches. When did the problem of erosion start to occur? Was it caused by a change in tides? What's going on?Complicated question; here's just a few points:

Sea level rule of thumb: One foot rise in sea level = 100 foot loss of shoreline. Deeper water also increases wave energy that erodes beaches. Although the problem appears to be accelerating, it wasn't much of a factor in the past. Sea level has risen an average of 6 inches in the last 100 years.

Sand dune creation is a natural phenomenon of coastal beaches. The plants that take hold are salt-water tolerant, and provide a barrier for uplands. Development stops that process.

Sand transportation - probably the biggest impact post-development. When coastal communities construct jetties and other barriers, the process of natural beach replacement is halted.

You can see this clearly on a Google-Earth view of the western end of Rockaway Peninsula. Sand transport is east to west. A jetty constructed around the end of the peninsula in the 1930s stopped further growth westward, and the sand is piling up behind it.

All the Atlantic coastal communities have been screwing each other, and themselves.

[American Gaming Guru]

Unfortunately I do not have much more to say about The Chelsea, other than the 5th Floor bars, lounges etc (Including Chelsea Prime) look finished and ready to go, but were not open yet this past weekend.

The pool area is open and operating with the exception of the bar area and food service.

The hotel responded by providing free breakfast, lunch and cocktail parties which was considerate of them. But I too am anxious to experience the new venues that The Chelsea has to offer. As per my previously posted pics, the spaces are intriguing and well thought-out. I think they really offer a wonderful addition to the city while also paying homage to AC's ever celebrated past.

We all know the exterior is nothing to get excited about. It is clearly inside the hotel where all the money was spent and I don't think anyone on this thread would be disappointed by it.

I will probably be back there in a week or two. I will provide a follow-up.

In regards to the dunes, they are man-made in AC as are many of them up and down many of the populated sections of the eastern seaboard. I grew up on Long Island and like AC, we had beautiful, large open beaches. You could see for miles. It was in the late 80's and early 90's when many LI beaches experienced terrible erosion problems many times as a result of violent storms that hit the coast. Under federal grants and actions of the Army Corps of Engineers, many areas of the east coast implemented a comprehensive dune construction program to prevent further erosion and with the commitment that the Corps would replenish the beach side of the dunes every few years. This has been the case on LI and has worked out well. While yes, the dunes are hideous to look at, they do serve a larger purpose and in AC, a few of you are right. There is practically no beach left at the North end of the boardwalk (by the Taj and Revel in particular). I can not imagine where the beach would be without those dunes in place.

[ZippyTheChimp]

Yes, the dunes will not stop beach erosion. The lost sand must be replaced by human effort.

This was also done at Coney Island/Brighton. There was a real Under the Boardwalk when the song was written. Now the sand is right under the planks.

[Fabrizio]

"Under The Planks" just doesn't have the same ring to it.

But it does rhyme with "wanks" and "thanks" ... so I guess you could get a storyline goin'.

----

Thanks for the info about the dunes.... interesting stuff.

[FELIXIMP]

The Schiff brothers are just down right slum lords.It seems to me the Schiff's are just milking A.C. for all it's worth and are just greedy, no vision carpet baggers.


Last I checked, carpet baggers by definition are not long-time residents of the areas they loot. I worked for the Schiff Brothers for many summers when I was in my teens: call them what you will, but they were two of the most normal, humble guys I ever met - Abe drove around in a Yugo or something similar for years because he didn't care. Truth is, those guys were born in AC and had nothing and bought all their land when no one else wanted it. They had the vision; and they employed hundreds of people who couldn't get jobs elsewhere. You don't know them so I suggest you not level personal attacks. And besides, last I checked, this was America and we are supposed to like capitalism.

[Fabrizio]

A multi-millionare driving a Yugo can be a sign of humility, but it can also be a sign of paranoid cheapness.

[American Gaming Guru]

Well said FELIXIMP. I too admire humility; however, The Schiffs seem to have been a major obstacle towards rehabilitation of the boardwalk. They do not re-invest in or maintain their properties. The CRDA had a hard time convincing the Schiffs to let the CRDA spend $100 million of CRDA funding on their own properties just so the places look decent. It is my understanding that the Schiffs wanted nothing to do with it and held up the project for quite some time.

Also, that dilapidated Schiff Pier and "dead zone" that they own most of in AC are just disgraceful and give the city the seedy reputation that it does not deserve.

By your account it seems that they had been quite generous to the city in the past. Why not now? Am I wrong? I would love to know more about them.

[zipburn]

Also, that dilapidated Schiff Pier and "dead zone" that they own most of in AC are just disgraceful and give the city the seedy reputation that it does not deserve.

By your account it seems that they had been quite generous to the city in the past. Why not now? Am I wrong? I would love to know more about them.

If they were generous, they would let a non-profit put up a sign to cover their obtrusive rust covered billboards that cover most of central pier. They don't have to because their billboard was there before they made the rules. Most if not all of Schiff's properties are EYESORES! They bought them when they were cheap with no plan to improve them. They are not part of the solution in Atlantic City they are part of the problem. They grew up selling cheap services and applied that to most of their boardwalk properties. I am all for captialism but I have no respect when people like the Schiff's create a monopoly of trash in which they are the only winners. The products most of their tenants offer are way overpriced trash from china. Thank god for the CRDA otherwise the Schiff's would keep the boardwalk looking like trash until they passed on.

[Intheknow]

Didn't the Schiffs recently sell?

[American Gaming Guru]

They only sold the horrendous looking shops and cheep buffet in front of The Dennis to Harrah's (for a ridiculously over-inflated price) after years at balking at fair offers form previous owners of the hotel.

[lofter1]

Considering this place is called Wired NEW YORK you really shouldn't be so surprise :cool:



This is seriously the most annoying thread on the entire board. It's just retarded how some people have to spend all there energy digging deep into this and/or other forums to show THEIR side to the point.

[Intheknow]

Fair offers are in the eye of the beholder. Maybe they'll buy Bader Field.

The credit market is looking bad, we have yet to hit bottom. Development is slowing dramatically everyday. I hope Revel gets completed. For that matter, I hope the Chelsea gets completed.

[giselehaslice]

Considering this place is called Wired NEW YORK you really shouldn't be so surprise :cool:

Wait, what?

[ZippyTheChimp]

When a thread becomes annoying and frustrating, sometimes the best thing to do is put it in read-only mode, or take a complete break from it for a while, and direct your attention to other topics.

But if your main interest is Atlantic City, that might not be so easy to do on a Wired New York forum.

[Intheknow]

I've noticed that this summer there have been alot fewer boardwalk parades, the Seafood festival, that was awesome at Gardners Basin (moved last year to the parking lot of Bernie Robbins Stadium-lame) did not happen this summer, the upcoming airshow appears to be the same old same old (remember the Thunderbirds and Blue Angels at the same time? Or the F-22 Raptor? The Stealth bomber? The Harrier Jet?) not this year.

Little things like this compliment a City and draw people.

Just something I've noticed, don't know why it is.

Let me know when someone starts to develop something/anything.

[American Gaming Guru]

Am I the only one dumbfounded by this?

I made the following comment on The Press' website:

"The timing is terrible. While there will undoubtedly be plenty of interest for the land, the city should sit on it a bit longer until (1) the credit markets recover and (2) a full-term mayor is elected to provide stability in city hall.

Short-sighted decisions made for a quick buck usually look regrettable in retrospect."

Thoughts?

New timeline coming for Bader Field development

By MICHAEL CLARK Staff Writer, 609-272-7204

Published: Tuesday, August 05, 2008








ATLANTIC CITY - Potential developers eyeing Bader Field for casino development might get their first look at what it will take to obtain the 140-acre tract as early as next week.
City officials have laid out a timetable to get the bid proposal circulated for the prized parcel, which has been loosely valued at about
$1 billion.
City Council members are expected to submit their final recommendations for the bid proposal today. They will likely include minor additions such as development regulations and affirmative-action guidelines.
Jones Lang LaSalle Americas Inc., a Philadelphia firm recently hired to shape the bid proposal, is scheduled to send the finished proposal back to council Thursday for final approval. Council is expected to sign-off on the proposal Aug. 11, which will likely lead to its public circulation the next day.

"I wanted to put their feet to the fire on this now because we're way behind schedule," Councilman Dennis Mason said of the new timeline.

Delays have plagued the request for proposal, or RFP, which officials projected to be advertised back in March.
Bidders will be given 60 days to respond to the RFP. Mason said the city could award a developer with the property by November, but the timing will depend on how long the state's Local Finance Board reviews it.
New Jersey legislators previously approved a bill that allows state oversight of the deal, with underlying concerns of corruption and mishandling.
The municipal airport on Bader Field closed in September 2006. Since then, several people have faced federal charges after taking or offering bribes for access to the tract.
Although the state will only review the final deal, Mason said the city would send the Local Finance Board a copy of the bid proposal as a courtesy.
Jones Lang LaSalle initially received a $350,000 consulting contract from the Casino Reinvestment Development Authority to help with Bader Field. However, friction between the city and the state agency led to the CRDA relinquishing the firm, in essence, to cut out the middleman.
The firm, which recently received a $240,250 contract from the city, had completed the majority of the bid proposal when the city hired it.
CRDA Director Thomas D. Carver said Monday that the authority is now mostly removed from Bader Field's development since the city hired Jones Lang LaSalle.
City officials and the CRDA developed a contentious relationship over Bader Field at the start of the year after the authority offered a deal to become the site's redevelopment agent days before the city received its first land offer.
The $800 million offer from Penn National Gaming prompted Carver to call the deal a scam. City legislators responded by brushing off the CRDA's proposal as a weak attempt to gain control of city property.
But the city's agreement to sign on Jones Lang LaSalle comforted Carver and the authority.
"The City Council has shown good judgment. They have the best firm to assist them," Carver said. "Everybody took a step back and realized that we were really working in concert with each other. We're happy with where this is at and now we're stepping aside."
Carver, however, left open the possibility of the authority assisting with the property's development in the future.
E-mail Michael Clark: Michael.Clark@pressofac.com (Michael.Clark@pressofac.com)

[Intheknow]

I know City Council is corrupt, and I'll bet my house the CRDA is corrupt. By corrupt I mean, not looking out for the best interest of the taxpayers. This deal will be mired in shit for a few years, so they may as well start the process, by the time the dust settles the property values may rebound.

This Bader Field deal is huge and these dirty politicians are going to want to get their share, cha-ching. It's not "if" they'll screw this up, but "how bad" they'll screw this up.

[American Gaming Guru]

I am on the Pinnacle Entertainment earnings call right now. Here are some encouraging comments made by company CEO Dan Lee on the future of their AC resort development:

- They bought "quite a bit of land" over the last 6 months. Their official Q2 earnings release has expenses "including $5.3 million for the Atlantic City project". Mr. Lee also noted that they are "largely done in land acquisitions" and that there are two large land owners in the middle of the project that are asking unreasonable prices for their land that Pinnacle has determined to "work around them". He also noted that this has been common in both Atlantic City and Las Vegas and that they have a sufficient foot-print for their project. To date Pinnacle has bought appx. 22-23 acres of land at an appx. price of $359,000,000 ($422,000,000 including capitalized interest).

- Mr. Lee also noted that they "are almost done with the conceptual design" and that over the next quarter they will be "getting into the next phase of the project" of street re-configuration and widening in conjunction with the CRDA which they believe will cost them appx. $10-$15 million dollars over the next 15 months. Additionally he noted that the "next phase" will include gaining entitlements and seeking restaurateurs to occupy the property.

- The most important notes; however, seem to me to be that they are getting the project ready for when the credit markets reopen. He noted that carrying costs include $4,000,000 in real estate taxes, $2,000,000 for a hotel lease (The Madison Hotel) and less than $1,000,000 in on-site payroll costs. Additionally expenses include legal and design fees. In summary, they called their carrying costs a "manageable expense to carry the project INDEFINATELY" until they can acquire favorable financing.

Folks, that sounds like a pretty good commitment to me. I know the city has been finagled in the past, but I for one, think Pinnacle is the real thing.

[Fabrizio]

What is their commitment to giving us as far as city street-life goes?....will the side streets be places you will want to walk along? What will the Pacific Ave side be like? Shops and restaurants? and on the Boardwalk frontage?

For any top-notch town, these things would be of utmost importance. Or will this development just add to AC's no-man's landscape of chilling blank walls and parking garages.

Are they adding to the desolation or helping to bring back a sense of place?

What is the city requiring of them?

If you have any info please let us know.

-------

Below:

Another example of how the spirit of AtlanticCity's past lives on in new developments... built elswhere.

Left is a pic of AC charming Inlet neighborhood (which today still looks like Desden after the bombing). To the right is SeaSide Florida. Note how the architecture (4 sided peaked roofs topped with turrets) and placement of the homes is very much the same. Will AC ever be able to again develope anything with such taste and eye for beauty?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v33/ronaldo/51949445.jpg

[Intheknow]

Without a planning committee or stable government AC will never have a plan. Officials don't even have a vision for the city, unless you count one way Pacific/Atlantic. The "Master Plan" is a joke. These people aren't qualified to plan my dinner parties let alone a City. Wouldn't you want someone who has an inkling on how to plan? Maybe get some advice?

There is a rumor that AC has a Boardwalk Committee, you can see the progress, more appropriate-regress, of the Boardwalk.

This madness must stop, I wish I had an answer.

Pinnacle will not break ground within the next three years, at the earliest. Isn't there a minimum of 20 acres to build a Casino?

[Fabrizio]

The city will be stuck with another empty lot in middle of town for how many years?

How about planting grass and letting sheep roam...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v33/ronaldo/8422512.jpg

[zipburn]

they do have the turret style architecture used in the new houses that border maine ave. west of the flagship...

[zipburn]

Am I the only one dumbfounded by this?


No, I am with you on this one. Just shows how unintelligent the people that run Atlantic City are. This is like the moron Judge Stien who is milking the Tropicana for all its worth, saying he wants better offers. I just don't understand how people can be so dense.

Why in hell would you put the RFP's out with no credit market? This is like the city not letting Revel finance through the city to pay for a job the city is supposed to do in the first place.

[Intheknow]

Yea, but do they have sheep?

[giselehaslice]

What is their commitment to giving us as far as city street-life goes?....will the side streets be places you will want to walk along? What will the Pacific Ave side be like? Shops and restaurants? and on the Boardwalk frontage?

For any top-notch town, these things would be of utmost importance. Or will this development just add to AC's no-man's landscape of chilling blank walls and parking garages.

Are they adding to the desolation or helping to bring back a sense of place?

What is the city requiring of them?

If you have any info please let us know.



Nobody knows yet. Let's wait for the renderings and details before we shoot it down.

[Intheknow]

That's the whole point! "No one has any idea yet". Why not? Shouldn't they have a great idea? I mean they are investing 2 billion dollars!

This shows they don't care. Put up 4 walls, add slots and tables, collect the money. It's business, and without any gov. or civic input the trend will continue, sadly.

[zipburn]

It's business, and without any gov. or civic input the trend will continue, sadly.

Last thing i would want running a business is an input from some halfwit corrupt politicians(especially democrats) or race baiting civic "leaders" and their organizations. They have intelligence they don't listen to the current AC gov. or any current AC civic losers.

[JCexpert558]

How tall do you guys think Pinnancles mega casino will be based on how tall his recent projects were:confused:

[Intheknow]

About as high as the bottom of my foot. Send in the sheep.

[American Gaming Guru]

A bit of good news for Revel. Good move on behalf of city council over all. It shows that they are pro business and pro redevelopment.



Atlantic City Council passes $56M. Revel bond ordinance

By MICHAEL CLARK Staff Writer, 609-272-7204


Published: Thursday, August 07, 2008






ATLANTIC CITY - Revel Entertainment Group successfully dodged the effects of a sagging credit market Wednesday when City Council approved a $56 million bond ordinance to help with road improvements around the developer's casino project.

The approval allows Revel to begin negotiating the bond's financial terms with the city, which will act as a vehicle to deliver lower interest rates to Revel from private bond holders.
The bond, which allows Revel as many as 30 years for repayment, will assist in a $90 million project to redesign access roads around the $2 billion waterfront casino project.
Connecticut Avenue would be widened to six lanes, which will run from Melrose Avenue all the way to the Boardwalk.
The Casino Reinvestment Development Authority approved the roadway project in July, after Revel CEO Kevin DeSanctis emphasized that the megaresort would not work without wider roads for traffic.

Should Revel default on the bond, the private bond holders would place a lien on the 20-acre property and reacquire the land for about a quarter of its value.

"We've said all along that the city has no chance to be holding the bag," said Lloyd D. Levenson, a Revel attorney. "We're happy they did this, it's a smart move for them."
The ordinance passed 6-1, with Councilman Steven Moore the lone no vote. Councilman Dennis Mason abstained and Councilman Marty Small was absent.
Although he voted to approve the ordinance, Councilman Timothy Mancuso was the most vocal opposition to the bill, simply because of the way it was presented by Revel.
"I don't like being told we're under the gun and being held hostage," he said, accusing the company of rushing the deal.
Mancuso proceeded to question Mayor Scott Evans, Engineer William Rafferty and Planning Director William Crane about whether Revel provided any detailed breakdown for the bond and how the money would be used.
Their answers were generally the same: No.
Mancuso then brandished a copy of a short summary of the plan that he said was not sufficient and was supplied by Revel attorneys just before the meeting.
But Council President William Marsh reminded Mancuso that the city was not actually paying for the project with credit or anything else.
"We didn't have a budget on how much we're paying because we're not paying anything," he said.
The creative arrangement, which Revel officials insist leaves the city with nothing to lose, was enabled through the use of a state law passed in 2002.
Most residents that spoke publicly Wednesday reiterated similar complaints made at a public hearing held last week, questioning why the city was catering to the developer without getting something substantial in return.
"We have wonderful casinos now, but we're still wearing the same old dirty underwear," resident Jeff Rosenberger said. "You've gotta take care of the underwear, too."
Councilman Moore, the lone no vote on the bill, felt the same.
"We need to put some fire to the feet in this negotiation," said Moore. "We've learned doing it after we've already voted for it it doesn't really work."
Joseph Kelly, president of the Atlantic City Regional Mainland Chamber of Commerce, was one of the few members of the public who endorsed the measure.
"The economy is challenged and Revel has continued to invest in this city," Kelly told council members. "We need that investment. It's important to us that this happens."
E-mail Michael Clark: Michael.Clark@pressofac.com (Michael.Clark@pressofac.com)

[American Gaming Guru]

Pinky's Corner

MGM Delays Development http://www.acweekly.com/images/shim.gif by Pinky Kravitz (pinky@acweekly.com)

http://www.acweekly.com/images/shim.gif


Word has reached this columnist that the proposed MGM Mirage development in Atlantic City, which was to begin groundbreaking in the fall of this year, has been delayed. MGM Mirage officials have let it be known that the company has the funding in place for its $4.5 billion project, which would encompass the full 76 acres that it owns adjacent to the Borgata. It is anticipated that, if the economic condition in the nation picks up, MGM Mirage would commence building in late 2009 or early 2010. This would move the completion date back to late 2012 or early 2013.

[JCexpert558]

About as high as the bottom of my foot. Send in the sheep.


Man I agree with your opinion but dont you think that's a little bit to tall LOL

[zipburn]

How tall do you guys think Pinnancles mega casino will be based on how tall his recent projects were:confused:

It will be up there, from what was said awhile ago a little above 600(i believe 618 to be exact). They might have changed their minds though with the mgm and revel plans released. They still have to wait for the new post office to be built on the corner of atlantic and indiana before they can demolish the current post office. The steel frame is already up on the new office building which will hold the new one. Just recently they demolished the building next to the marburg and the marburg. You can see they are taking their time but they are doing work that needed to be done before any development could happen in the first place. They will build its just going to be delayed a little because of the current market status. They still have to demolish the left over part of the parking garage that is next to the madison. It looks as though their footprint will wrap around the madison and show up back on pacific and kentucky next to the arts building which is under current renovation. It seems as though the madison will be saved. I could be wrong but I doesn't seem likely that the madison will be removed. If I had to speculate It will probably continue to be used as offices as it is now or later as a luxury hotel/condo with an old charm.

[American Gaming Guru]

I think Pinnacle would like nothing more than to demolish The Madison. I have no insight, just a gut feeling by listening to their earnings calls. I do not think that will happen though and glad that hopefully it will not. That old hotel really does have some great charm to it. It is also protected (somewhat anyway) by being listed on the National Register of Historical Places:

Madison Hotel (added 1984 - Building - #84000506)
Also known as Madison House
123 S. Illinois Ave., Atlantic City http://www.nationalregisterofhistoricplaces.com/nr-images/3x3.gifHistoric Significance: Architecture/Engineering, Event Architect, builder, or engineer: Price & Walton Architectural Style: Other, Colonial Revival Area of Significance: Architecture, Commerce Period of Significance: 1925-1949 Owner: Private Historic Function: Domestic Historic Sub-function: Hotel Current Function: Domestic Current Sub-function: Hotel

http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:8jClH0S9QzxRrM:http://www.atlantic-city-online.com/hotels/images/madison-house-exterior.gif (http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.atlantic-city-online.com/hotels/images/madison-house-exterior.gif&imgrefurl=http://www.atlantic-city-online.com/hotels/madisonhouse.shtml&h=195&w=154&sz=28&hl=en&start=3&um=1&tbnid=8jClH0S9QzxRrM:&tbnh=104&tbnw=82&prev=/images%3Fq%3DThe%2BMadison%2BHouse,%2BAtlantic%2BC ity%26ndsp%3D21%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26rls%3Dcom.mic rosoft:en-us:IE-SearchBox%26rlz%3D1I7GFRC%26sa%3DN)


The Sands put some money into renovating it not too long ago. It would be great if Pinnacle incorporated it into their new resort. A complete restoration and addition of a boutique/old world charm hotel could be a great amenity.

[American Gaming Guru]

Apparently all the LUXE tower amenities are now fully open. From their website:

Come celebrate our Grand Opening with a stay at Chelsea Luxe.</B>
Dive in at the Pool or soak in the sun at our terrace patio, then meet us for a fabulous dining experience at Stephen Starr's Chelsea Prime. After dinner, grab a cool cocktail at the 5th Floor before retiring to your elegant room in our posh Chelsea Luxe tower.


Our Chelsea Luxe rooms, Chelsea Prime restaurant, the Pool and
the 5th Floor are now open. Come and join the excitement.</B>
Opening soon: Chelsea Lite, Teplitzky's, and Sea Spa

[kliq6]

But I'm saying though ,AC isn't the worst place to be on earth.

No that honor in America goes to Cleveland and Detroit, but AC aint far behind

[Intheknow]

The Chelsea is getting some unflattering reviews. Opened before they should have, staff is ill equipped (training) and the basics, checking in, is a nightmare. Why doesn't anyone listen to me?

[giselehaslice]

The Chelsea is getting some unflattering reviews. Opened before they should have, staff is ill equipped (training) and the basics, checking in, is a nightmare. Why doesn't anyone listen to me?

Where are you getting this info? And the reason people don't listen to you is very clear, but let's let you figure it out.

[Intheknow]

People on the street. Also, check out Hotels.com. It appears that everything you refute me on is coming to fruition....Revel, Pinnacle, MGM, AC Gateway.... Retarded City officials....lack of planning...revenues going down,down,down....

Now I did here that the Chelsea Prime was excellent, this comes from a waitress at the Tropicana, she should know.

Atlantic City is at a stand still when it comes to developing, it is also getting dirtier by the day. Our image is not being enhanced, it's down right depressing.

[66nexus]

People on the street. Also, check out Hotels.com. It appears that everything you refute me on is coming to fruition....Revel, Pinnacle, MGM, AC Gateway.... Retarded City officials....lack of planning...revenues going down,down,down....

Now I did here that the Chelsea Prime was excellent, this comes from a waitress at the Tropicana, she should know.

Atlantic City is at a stand still when it comes to developing, it is also getting dirtier by the day. Our image is not being enhanced, it's down right depressing.

Well, many tourist areas revenues are also going 'down, down, down.'

And by AC being at a stand still I take it you mean after Harrah's tower, Trump's tower, Water Club, and the Chelsea and the yet to be finished Revel then? One hell of a stand still.

Understandable that you live in AC and everything, but the whole 'I heard it from a guy' holds absolutely no grounds of validity.

[AC11]

intheknow...
its called perspective. It means a mental view or outlook. And it is what dictates how we all view the world around us. Your posts are constantly being put forth with an extremely negative perspective.

If you are a local as you say you are, and if you want to see the city succeed as you claim to, then why must you berate it at every chance? As a stakeholder in the future of AC, you, and the rest of us, should be trying our best to pump up the great aspects of the city, and correct the worst.

Life can suck, or life can inspire. Its all in how you look at it.

For example: You could show a picture of Atlantic City on a beautiful summer morning with locals and visitors enjoying walks and bike rides on the Boardwalk, or eating breakfast at one of the cafes near Tropicana, or you can show a gloomy picture on a rainy day, with nothing going on. Which would it be?

There are many of us here (Guru, Gisele, zipburn, JC, to name a few) who enjoy conversations about the potential of Atlantic City, and about the projects that are going on and sometimes how the past plays into that. Yes we have criticism, and that is not a bad thing. And we all know what kind of shape the market is in. But we still see potential. If we didn't, we wouldn't be here.

Why doesn't anyone listen to me?

It's because of your perspective.

[Intheknow]

AC has tremendous potential. It is just being wasted. Building a Casino with no street level existance is not what I call progress.

As for people strolling and riding on boardwalk, pretty soon they may not be legal, due to the fact the foundation is falling apart.

As for refering to people on the street, they are the trueist and best source of info. Please check hotels.com concerning Chelsea if you want proof of my statement. I'll rely on people on the street.

The boardwalk is a mess, I'm not lying, take a walk or ride on it, don't you think it could and should be world class?

My standards must be higher then the posters you mentioned.

And another thing, have you been to the WALK? Have you experienced the traffic patterns that were designed-it's awful! Same with the Marina district traffic patterns, it's like LA, but for what reason, they had a flat peice of land to work with.

Now, again, they want to make Pacific and Atlantic one-way, idiots. Traffic is not bad here, I don't get it. well I do, the politicians want to line there pockets with all this nonsensical, huge projects. That's why the little things don't get done in this town.

I still have faith in Atlantic City, I just wish the developers would utilize the Beach and Boardwalk more instead of closing these assets of to the public.

[Fabrizio]

Re: Hotel Chelsea reviews at hotel.com

Reviewers mention that the Hotel was in previews... so I think readers will take that into consideration but even so, a 3,2 rating is a disaster.

Of 14 reviewers 6 do not reccomend the place. Not good.

Random quotes:

"We also had to stand in line for 43 minutes, listening to everyone in line complain about the hotel. In my opinion this is unacceptable for a hotel that is new."

"they seemed slow and unorganized. "

"The lobby and the rooms were not upscale at all. Room was not 4-star or luxury."

"Although I'd love for this to succeed, i'm a bit skeptical."

"The lobby and the rooms were not upscale. It has a good location as long as they can figure out how to check you in before your trip is over."

"Some of the staff was wonderful, some was incredibly rude and unprofessional. When we went to check in, there was a line of 20 people at the front desk, all of whom were waiting to complain!"


http://www.hotels.com/property.do?searchMtmPropertySupplierId=&propertyIdsToCompareString=&COMonth=-1&PSRC=ORG100&TSRC=1&numrooms=1&searchType=&usertypedcity=Atlantic+City+area%2C+New+Jersey%2C+ US&alternateSell=&acDestinationId=DB9D214A-362E-499C-9C14-B7073EF0CA2C&allPropertyTypesSelected=true&COYear=2008&CODay=-1&paging=1&acDestinationType=1&searchID=AC102636-8EA7-C911-BAB2-8C3401905D52&CIYear=2008&mtnHotelID=406252&destination=DB9D214A-362E-499C-9C14-B7073EF0CA2C&roomOccupancyString=1%7C%7C2%7C0%7C0&CIDay=-1&sortBy=HCOMPICK&s=1&position=3&CIMonth=-1

However: Tripadvisor, while only having 2 reviews, they are at least positive.

But overall, for the present, a traveler doing a search about ratings for the Hotel Chelsea would come away with a rather negative impression of the place and would probably choose to stay else where.

-----

Intheknow: The problem is that among your many good points, there are so many false hoods and so much here-say that everything becomes a little unbelievable and that's a shame..

No one cares what you hear from Tropicana waitresses and bus boys. I'm sure there are gossip-style web sites that would be grateful for this kind of info: but not here.

Perhaps putting it into context: "A waitress told me..." would at least take the edge off.

--

[Intheknow]

A waitress told me that Chelsea Prime was excellent.

[blackdragon905]

you can't really expect it to be great, i mean it really is only a 100 million dollar renovation of two old hotels, 100 million dollars is a lot but in terms of building a super luxury hotel, not really, i hope it does well though.

[Fabrizio]

You can't screw around when your website promises this:

"This summer, the Chelsea ushers in a new era of Atlantic City chic, re-imagining the fabled heyday of “America's Playground” for the savvy modern traveler. The first non-gaming hotel to grace the Boardwalk since the 1960s, the Chelsea captures imaginations by conjuring the long-lost glamour and sophistication of this seaside resort town as a magical retreat where leisure and luxury come together in a perfect blend of great service, true comfort, and alluring spaces."

[giselehaslice]

Well, what would you say if you wanted business?

"Crappy Interiors and Shoddy fixtures are a promise here. We will make sure you're stay is something that came out of a horror story. We really take pride in our bad staff."

I think NOT.

(not that I'm saying the Chelsea has any of these things, just trying to make a point.)

[Intheknow]

I have had personel business dealings with Curtis and AC Gateway. They were very sloppy, amateurish, and arrogant. Suffice it to say our dealings went nowhere.

This doesn't mean he can't succeed at the Chelsea, but I wouldn't bet on it being successful.

[Fabrizio]

Excellent giselehaslice, is that the best excuse you can come up with?

Let's offer pie-in-the-sky expectations, but we'll open when we're not quite ready... and well...hey....we'll see how it goes.

It doesn't work that way today. These are unforgiving times with lots of competition.

Perhaps it would have been better to delay the opening.

---

intheknow: peronal dealings of what nature?


---

[giselehaslice]

Seriously Fabrizio? I can't make excuses for what the Chelsea may/may not be. It's funny, because you seem really flimsy about your view on this hotel. One day your like (not exact quotes) "Little Hotels like these start things like South Beach" and "Give the Dennis Hotel to Bashaw so he can develop it the right way" then the next your like "Not acceptable" and other random stuff. Maybe you should stick to one side.

[Intheknow]

They wanted to buy a building I'm part owner of for their Casino.

As I stated in a previous post they are opening the Chelsea before it is complete which is never a good idea, it makes for bad first impressions for guests(construction going on) and it slows construction(guests in the way). But what do I know.

[Fabrizio]

No giselehaslice, I will leave the "sticking to one side" to you.

The promise of the Chelsea is wonderful: the concept, the look etc.... all the right moves. And I still certainly agree with all that I said... about a hotel that was not yet open... and based on Bashaw's reputation established with his properties in CapeMay.

But now it's up to them to deliver with the Chelsea. As I said: Perhaps it would have been better to delay the opening.

Do you have a problem with that?

----

Congress Hall, Cape May

hotels.com: 4,5 rating. 98% recommended.

http://www.hotels.com/property.do?searchMtmPropertySupplierId=&propertyIdsToCompareString=&COMonth=-1&PSRC=null&TSRC=1&numrooms=1&searchType=&usertypedcity=Cape+May%2C+NJ&alternateSell=&allPropertyTypesSelected=true&COYear=2008&CODay=-1&paging=1&searchID=AC102644-5630-6911-BAE2-1