Atlantic City Seeks New Image: Las Vegas's [Archive] - Page 5

Fabrizio

July 31st, 2008, 03:40 PM

Here are comments from people all over the US about Atlantic City on the very popular and much read TripAdvisor.

Nearly every review is negative.... some of them hilariously so.

A sample:

"We came home a day early because Atlantic City was such a disapointment. We used to love it there. You used to be able to see the ocean from the boardwalk and I'd love to take a break from the casinos to sit on the boardwalk and watch the ocean... it mesmerizes me. Ilove it. Now, you can't even see the ocean from the boardwalk. They built a sand berm so all you see is a big sand hill with some spiky plants sticking out of it." - Barbee44 Buffalo NY

"The boardwalk was almost deserted. You had the usual homeless people and street musicians. I thought I was back in the NYC subway. The boardwalk itself is not clean. Its just a way of getting from one casino to another. Don't go out of your way to visit this." - bwco Morris County, NJ

"The stores have very cheap touristy objects and really bad knockoff bags if thats even what you want to call them. It seems everyone on it at night is just having a good time walking to different casinos, but I would not walk it after a certain time since the area does not exactly give off the vibe of safe." - TheresaP Long Island

"Some of the hotels, even though they're considered next to one another, have big gaps of nothingness between them. These gaps are especially not good to travel on foot at night." - missmusic Bay Shore, NY

"May I suggust that you stay in your hotel or go to another boardwalk. The stores are terrible. They are full of trashy items; (like napkins for the new year 1999), and plenty of other things! Next, there are bums and homeless roaming and even sleeping under the boardwalk. They want your money (we got asked a few times)." Traveler0714 Mechanicsburg, PA

"Sadly, this place is very run down and seemingly not very safe.
Immediately upon entering the boardwalk, you see all sorts of dirty people roaming around obviously up to no good. The stores are seedy and run down although some are newer and nice. The beach is the dirtiest I have ever seen ( I actually left my sandles on while walking on it for fear of stepping on who knows what). It is obvious street people live in the immediate area. There was litter all over the beach area and boardwalk itself. " - Berghof

"Dont go out of your way to go here. All it is is a huge boardwalk. The weakest one i have ever been to in fact. Time is better spent at most any other beach." GMan5431 Cincinnati, Ohio

"We seen things haven't changed much on the broadwalk. This was our first time taking our 2 year old son there. We were taking a stroll towards Taj Mahal and we were approached by a bum asking for money. " - MLD07 New York

"It is quite a seedy area...including the beach..... Not to mention the homeless or the crazy people pan-handling.." sparklerblue Upstate NY

"atlantic city was the worse place ive ever seen there was garbage all over,and there were strange people everywhere it was a very dirty place new jersey should be ashamed of its self" - A TripAdvisor Member bridgeport ct.

"Atlantic City is really losing a comeback draw for tourist on the boardwalk. The open garbage buckets literally smelled and drew the gulls. If every casino on the strip paid a fraction to funding garbage pickup/bags/etc. it would make the boardwalk so much more enjoyable. I think the casinos want to keep people inside - but that short term thinking backfires. People would stay longer if they could enjoy the boardwalk and views more." - A TripAdvisor Member Gardner, Ma.

"AC should be ashamed of the condition of the boardwalk. It was filthy and nasty, run down and one huge disappointment. It's obvious that the revenue the casinos generate is put right back into them and the rest of AC has gone to pot! All in all, this was an anniversary trip and we had fun being together, but were very disappointed with AC and won't return. " - A TripAdvisor Member Colonial Heights, VA

giselehaslice

July 31st, 2008, 04:00 PM

Fabrizio, I'm not trying to start anything but I dont see what point your trying to make with tripadvisor posts. Okay we get that the city is in bad shape in alot of areas, but complaining about putting dunes next to the boardwalk is an invalid point. Would you rather have waves come up during a storm and wash the boardwalk away, or the sand. Thats what they are there for. Also, people go there and expect it to be like Vegas. It's definatley not, and won'nt be for a long time. It's a city with economical problems for lots of residents, just like any other city. People try to act like Orlando (Disney) is a perfect place where nothing goes wrong, but in reality, its the most dangerous city in Florida, beating Miami. Thats saying something.

Anyway, okay maybe there is waterfront land to be developed on that side of the boardwalk, but the problem with that is the boardwalk is'nt even near the actual land. Bulldoze the existing structure, and maybe build another actually on land. That would make alot more sence.

66nexus

July 31st, 2008, 06:38 PM

Fab, I'm kinda with Gise on the curiosity of posting tripadvisor comments on here. When did people ever have good things to say about the boardwalk after 1960? Half of them don't know what changed because it was their first time and other people have their expectations on a Vegas level...

Additionally, (for those who knock the casinos) AC was in decline years before the first casino showed up. AC's undoing had nothing to do with the casinos and it is almost beyond opinion that it is way better than it was.

So we can hate the Walk, which was an absolutely desolate neighborhood before it, we can hate the Pier at Caesar's which was an empty complex, we can hate Revel which sat on the site of pure...well nothingness.

So wish AC was South Beach or Vegas or whatever for those who want to do that...I say go ahead and celebrate those cities already.

Wishing upon a star will not change AC so if its development is unnerving then one should discontinue support.

Intheknow

July 31st, 2008, 06:44 PM

All those posts on tripadvisor are from me using aliases. Ha Ha

The sand berms are only good for obstructing the view of the ocean, I think Casino and City officials want people to forget there is a beach and ocean behind the berms.

As for the beach, every town(Ventnor, Margate, Wildwood, etc.) rakes the whole beach everyday. AC rakes about ten ft. wide at the waters edge, it's unbelievable to me.

The City collects the trash on Boardwalk with a stinking, dripping, trashtruck at 7 a.m. and 5 p.m. in the process scattering tourist. It is beyond comprehension on why they do this.

For AC to grow it must maintain tourist, i.e. have them come back.

Like I said "Atlantic City-the most under-utilized City in the world"

Fabrizio

July 31st, 2008, 06:50 PM

Gisel, Nexus: Guys, follow the thread. We are discussing the B'walk at the inlet.

Tear this section down ...or restore it. But letting it sit there to rot casts a poor image on AC (as if AC doesn't already have enough image problems).

I posted travelers comments about the B'walk from TripAdvisor to show you what the popular image of the b'walk is: a dump.

So WHY add to that image by letting this section of the B'walk decay? If this is AC's "World Famous" b'walk... promoted as a fabulous stroll and bike ride ...then clean up your act. If not, you get the "World Famous" TripAdvisor full of those kind of comments.

So my posting of the TripAdvisor comments is entirely appropriate to the conversation.

Wishing upon a star will not change AC so if its development is unnerving then one should discontinue support.

Would you mind explaining that further?

-------

More about TripAdvisor: it is interesting to compare travelers hotel experiences between AC and Vegas. The AC hotels, including the Borgata are no match for the LasVegas Hotels. None of the AC hotels are rated as high as Vegas... and some of them like Trump, Bally's and Hilton are pretty dismal. Why mention this? Well if you have generally negative comments about the B'walk... and so-so comments about the hotels... it doesn't bode well for AC.

I know, I know....Orlando and Vegas have crime too and bla-bla-bla.... but the public perception is different.

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http://www.tripadvisor.com/Hotels-g29750-Atlantic_City_New_Jersey-Hotels.html

http://las-vegas-hotels.tripadvisor.com/Hotels-g45963-Las_Vegas_Nevada-Hotels.html

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66nexus

July 31st, 2008, 07:18 PM

With 11 casinos—and only one of them in the past 15 years built to the luxury standards of the Strip—Atlantic City is far from Las Vegas by any definition. By most measures, Las Vegas out-sizes Atlantic City (number of guestrooms, square feet of convention and exhibit space, restaurants, spas, shopping, etc.). For years Atlantic City has been labeled a smaller, frumpier sibling.
http://www.hotelmotel.com/hotelmotel/data/articlestandard//hotelmotel/142008/507672/i2_t.jpg (http://www.hotelmotel.com/hotelmotel/Columns/Atlantic-City-trumps-Vegas-for-Service/ArticleStandard/Article/detail/507672#)

Market Metrix casino index
But according to a new casino study, some things are changing. Atlantic City is now challenging Las Vegas in fundamental measures including guest satisfaction and certain emotional experiences. Compared to the Las Vegas Strip, Atlantic City guests are more satisfied with their hotel and casino experience and, in turn, are more likely to recommend Atlantic City hotels and casinos to others. For example, Atlantic City guests are impressed with Harrah's service and employee attitudes and love The Borgata Hotel Casino & Spa's celebrity-chef-run restaurants.

Atlantic City hotels and casinos also get higher marks for pampering their guests. Here are some comments about why guests feel pampered:

The quality of their goods is excellent. I stayed in the suite, which offers a huge bathroom, ceiling-to-floor windows and an unusually comfortable bed.
Lots of comfortable pillows and a fruit basket.
Atlantic City has an advantage in its pursuit of Las Vegas-size success. It used to be a popular destination, a summer resort for the wealthy, before Las Vegas existed. The Borgata's success, and New Jersey's low tax rate, is paving the way for a wave of multibillion-dollar resorts.
And while the Market Metrix results show that customers generally are pleased with the new Atlantic City hotels and casinos, there is, of course, The Boardwalk, the ocean and the beach...Look out, here comes Atlantic City's transformation.

http://www.hotelmotel.com/hotelmotel/Columns/Atlantic-City-trumps-Vegas-for-Service/ArticleStandard/Article/detail/507672

this is my response to tripadvisor reviews

66nexus

July 31st, 2008, 07:27 PM

Okay Fab, since we're posting opinions now...

The above is a customer satisfaction article which I am sure some of you will immediately dismiss while accepting tripadvisor comments.

It is going to take A WHOLE LOT more to change the perception people have of AC than restoring the B'walk. That end of the B'walk could be restored tomorrow, people are still going to find the gritty and dirty of the city which is certainly not limited to the B'walk.

And in response to Vegas hotels getting rated better...no kidding. The only new casino AC has is the Borgata.

People tend to keep forgetting that most of the Vegas Strip casinos are relatively new (when Vegas experienced its construct-boom) and almost every one of them is newer than AC's casinos save for a few...so they had BETTER be rated higher

When AC experiences its own boom (if it shall continue) then we'll make the comparison. But comparing the Taj Mahal to something like the Wynn is ridiculous. And as I've said, Harrah's AC already overtakes Harrah's Vegas in modern quality

Intheknow

July 31st, 2008, 07:48 PM

Atlantic City can build ten new Casinos AND have a beautiful boardwalk and beach.

Why do we always compare ourselves to Vegas? We should strive to have Vegas compare themselves to AC.

It's not that difficult to transform AC, if we could only rid ourselves of the corruption and lose the me,me,me attitude. We are all in this together, the self serving attitude is sucking this City dry.

Fabrizio

July 31st, 2008, 08:07 PM

The MarketMetrix Index proves that:

Atlantic City is cooler than Vegas. It's hipper. It's more sophisticated. It's more pampering.... more satisfying.

Gee.... who knew?

AC should really hire someone to hand out flyers on the Boardwalk with that index printed on it.

Cooler than Vegas.... gotta get the word out.

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66nexus

July 31st, 2008, 08:25 PM

I don't believe the article was getting across that AC was 'cooler' or 'hipper' (which it ain't), it indicated the guests experiences...

'Compared to the Las Vegas Strip, Atlantic City guests are more satisfied with their hotel and casino experience and, in turn, are more likely to recommend Atlantic City hotels and casinos to others. For example, Atlantic City guests are impressed with Harrah's service and employee attitudes and love The Borgata Hotel Casino & Spa's celebrity-chef-run restaurants.'

And yes, InTK, even though I've been guilty of it in the past I too tire of the Vegas comparison.

Fabrizio

July 31st, 2008, 08:39 PM

What on earth is an "Emotion Score"? Please explain.

Let's see: I'm in AC and I feel hipper and cooler... uh... or.... the casinos feel hipper and cooler? They're more sophisticated than those in Vegas? Or they make me feel more sophisticated? What's the deal?

(I can just imagine the people they surveyed...why do I have have a feeling they were all from South Jersey... :) )

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v33/ronaldo/Immagine4.jpg

STT757

July 31st, 2008, 11:04 PM

AC visitors have a slightly higher income, that generally reflects the market within 2-3 hours drive from AC is generally some of the wealthiest in the nation. Proves there a market for more Borgata's, Waterclubs etc..

I would have loved if Trump Marina were turned into a Hard Rock Hotel and Casino, AC needs one. The one in Tampa I visited was very nice.

STT757

August 1st, 2008, 01:41 AM

Sad news for the folks involved in the Revel project:

8 Killed in Small Jet Crash in Minnesota

By AMY FORLITI, AP

OWATONNA, Minn. (July 31) - A small jet crashed Thursday while preparing to land at a regional airport in Minnesota, killing eight people, including casino and construction executives.

Authorities initially thought nine people may have been aboard the Raytheon Hawker 800, which went down about 9:30 a.m. at a regional airport about 60 miles south of the Twin Cities.
But by late evening, Department of Public Safety spokesman Doug Neville said it had been confirmed that eight people were on board.
Seven people were dead at the scene. One died later at a hospital. The plane was carrying two pilots.
Severe weather had been moving through southern Minnesota earlier Thursday, but witnesses and the National Weather Service said the storms were subsiding at the time of the crash. It wasn't immediately clear if weather was a factor.
The charter jet, flying from Atlantic City, N.J., to Owatonna, a town of 25,000, went down in a cornfield northwest of Degner Regional Airport, Sheriff Gary Ringhofer said. The wreckage was not visible to reporters because tall corn obscured the crash site.
The debris was scattered 500 feet beyond the airport's runway. Late Thursday, the Dakota County coroner was on the scene working to identify victims.
Cameron Smith, a mechanic at the airport, said he spoke by radio with the jet's pilot just minutes before the crash. The pilot was about to land and was asking where he should park for fuel, Smith said.
He ran to the crash scene to see if anyone could be helped, but saw only a long skid path and debris that he described as "shredded."

He said: "There was no fuselage. There were just parts."
The plane had been scheduled to land at 9:42 a.m., then take off at 11:40 a.m. for Crossville, Tenn.
The only crash victim publicly identified as of early Thursday evening was Karen Sandland, 44, a project manager on the Revel casino project who worked out of Tishman Construction's Newark, N.J. office, company spokesman Bud Perrone said. She was the only Tishman employee on board, said Richard M. Kielar, the company's senior vice president.

Atlantic City Mayor Scott Evans said two high-ranking Revel executives also were among the victims, but he declined to identify them.
Revel CEO Kevin DeSanctis issued a statement Thursday night mourning the loss of employees from his company, Tishman and APG International, a Glassboro, N.J., company that specializes in glass facades. DeSanctis did not identify the victims or say how many of his company's employees died.
APG's telephone rang unanswered Thursday night, and no one immediately responded to a fax sent to the company seeking comment.
Don Pyatt, president of glass company Viracon, told the Owatonna People's Press that the customers were from "a couple of different companies" who were coming to the plant to discuss a project in Las Vegas.
Mary Ann Jackson, a spokeswoman for Viracon's parent company, Apogee Enterprises Inc., confirmed to the AP that those on board were Viracon customers, but declined to provide other details. She said no Viracon employees were involved in the crash.
The airport lies alongside Interstate 35 as it skirts Owatonna's western edge. The airport's Web site describes it as "ideal for all classes of corporate aircraft use" with an all-weather instrument landing system.
Sharon Gordon, a spokeswoman for the South Jersey Transportation Authority, which operates Atlantic City International Airport, said the East Coast Jets plane landed at the airport at 7:10 a.m. from its base in Allentown, Pa.
It picked up several passengers and left at 8:13 a.m., requiring no services on the ground.

http://news.aol.com/article/7-killed-in-small-jet-crash-in-minnesota/112002?icid=100214839x1206483496x1200356442

American Gaming Guru

August 1st, 2008, 03:11 PM

Just so everyone gets an idea of what is going on out there, you might want to read this before taking additional cheap shots at Pinnacle and Barr/Bashaw:

Boyd Soars on Suspended Project, Earnings

2008-08-01 12:12:22.0

BYD (http://www.thestreet.com/quote/BYD.html?omorig=story&puc=tickertop) LVS (http://www.thestreet.com/quote/LVS.html?omorig=story&puc=tickertop) MHGC (http://www.thestreet.com/quote/MHGC.html?omorig=story&puc=tickertop) PENN (http://www.thestreet.com/quote/PENN.html?omorig=story&puc=tickertop) WYNN (http://www.thestreet.com/quote/WYNN.html?omorig=story&puc=tickertop)

http://i.thestreet.com/files/tsc/v2008/css/images/arrow.gif Nicholas Yulico (http://www.thestreet.com/_yahoo/newsanalysis/realestate/10431505.html?cm_ven=YAHOO&cm_cat=FREE&cm_ite=NA#)

Boyd Gaming (BYD (http://www.thestreet.com/quote/BYD.html?omorig=story&puc=tickerembedded) - Cramer's Take (http://www.thestreet.com/cramerstake/BYD.html) - Stockpickr (http://www.stockpickr.com/thestreet-symbol/BYD/)) is surging more than 20% Friday after the casino owner said it would delay construction of Echelon Place, a giant Las Vegas development that investors viewed increasingly as a risky undertaking.
Today's news is great for shareholders. Boyd's stock has been pummeled this year by the bearish thesis that Echelon Place would destroy the company's (http://www.thestreet.com/_yahoo/newsanalysis/realestate/10431505.html?cm_ven=YAHOO&cm_cat=FREE&cm_ite=NA#) value -- because of concerns about what sort of financing and returns on capital Boyd could achieve for the project.
As a reminder, Boyd is rated a stock to own in my Bricks and Mortar mock portfolio.
Echelon is a $4.8 billion project planned for the northern part of the Las Vegas Strip, near where Wynn (WYNN (http://www.thestreet.com/quote/WYNN.html?omorig=story&puc=tickerembedded) - Cramer's Take (http://www.thestreet.com/cramerstake/WYNN.html) - Stockpickr (http://www.stockpickr.com/thestreet-symbol/WYNN/)) is building its next property, Encore.
Some people thought Boyd would break its debt (http://www.thestreet.com/_yahoo/newsanalysis/realestate/10431505.html?cm_ven=YAHOO&cm_cat=FREE&cm_ite=NA#) covenants if it went ahead with the project today, and there was also worry that Morgans Hotel (MHGC (http://www.thestreet.com/quote/MHGC.html?omorig=story&puc=tickerembedded) - Cramer's Take (http://www.thestreet.com/cramerstake/MHGC.html) - Stockpickr (http://www.stockpickr.com/thestreet-symbol/MHGC/)) would not have the money to fund the joint venture piece of the Echelon development.
"It's a big relief. Clearly investors didn't want to see them go ahead in this type of credit market," says Eric Green, portfolio manager at Penn Capital Management (http://www.thestreet.com/_yahoo/newsanalysis/realestate/10431505.html?cm_ven=YAHOO&cm_cat=FREE&cm_ite=NA#), which owns Boyd shares.
Boyd had said it could use its line of credit and funds on hand to build the project, but typically developers get construction financing for new projects. The worry was that Boyd would get unattractive financing rates or none at all -- given the difficult credit markets today. The simple takeaway from the news today is that Boyd is now a much less risky stock. The company can now focus more closely on its portfolio of existing properties, which include casinos catering to residents in Las Vegas, casinos in the Midwest and the hip Borgata Casino in Atlantic City, N.J., that Boyd jointly owns with MGM Mirage (MGM (http://www.thestreet.com/quote/MGM.html?omorig=story&puc=tickerembedded) - Cramer's Take (http://www.thestreet.com/cramerstake/MGM.html) - Stockpickr (http://www.stockpickr.com/thestreet-symbol/MGM/)).

kliq6

August 1st, 2008, 03:19 PM

Boyd got in over there head and now are looking at a way out, they will ty and sell this thing as fast as they can. Know way they are going to just pick it up 18 months from now.

Not a good sign for the industry and AC is dealing with MGM not moving forward as quick as they has wanted so overall times look bad

American Gaming Guru

August 1st, 2008, 04:31 PM

It is really too bad. I love the company and its leadership. The development team, headed up by Bob Boughner is one of the best in the business. I was excited for this one.

I highly doubt they sell it. Unfortunately as we have seen, it just makes absolutely no sense to go to the capital markets right now. I really hope it works out for them.

As it is relevant to this post, people simply suggest that companies trying to develop in AC are there just to flip land. Which ultimately may be the case, due to these financial circumstances, but I know as a fact their original intentions were sincere as they obviously were with BYD in Vegas.

BTW. I am staying at The Chelsea this weekend. I will try and take more construction pics for everyone.

Intheknow

August 1st, 2008, 06:29 PM

It was all so very obvious. People, understandably, and City's(AC) get all excited at the prospects of new development- as my father always said "check the finances of anyone you do business with" sound, solid advice that has served me well.

Talk is cheap, building a Casino is not.

Intheknow

August 1st, 2008, 09:46 PM

Hey guru, Ask for Annie @ the Chelsea, tell her I sent you, maybe she'll buy you a drink.

Stake out the site of Bashaws "proposed Casino" and take some pics, get the park and Monument, I'd appreciate it. Be careful on the boardwalk, you may fall through. Check out the sand berms, then walk down in front of Enclave Condominium, where there is a break in them, and look at the Ocean from the boardwalk, that's what it's all about.

Good luck!

Intheknow

August 2nd, 2008, 04:02 PM

Check MGM stock price.

Hmmmmmmm.

Intheknow

August 2nd, 2008, 04:13 PM

[quote=zipburn;240163]Wrong again. Not that im suprised. MGM doesn't need financing it has the resources to build whatever shape the US economy is in as it is a GLOBAL company. Maybe you should put a hold on your posts for 4-7 years by then maybe you will finally be "Intheknow". Revel is on target for its 2010 opening. The only thing sad is what you have done to this thread.

Sad but true. Apologies accepted.

zipburn

August 2nd, 2008, 11:06 PM

giselehaslice

August 2nd, 2008, 11:40 PM

I echo the fact that AC is packed with people.
I was there last night and enjoyed an excellent dinner at Buddakan at the Pier at Caesars. The place was jammed, did'nt thin out until after 12:00. After that, it was time for the boardwalk. Still jammed with people after 12:30. Music at the Beach Bars was blaring and created an energetic atmosphere.

Sorry, couldnt get any construction pics 'cause we got there after dark. Next time =).

American Gaming Guru, could you please take some pics? Have a nice stay at the Chelsea also...

Intheknow

August 3rd, 2008, 01:42 AM

Apologize for what that your a pessimistic ass clown? Markets go up and down like a sine curve it isn't always going to be peachy The fact there is still progress going on now is testament to what Atlantic City will become. Stop complaing about the same worthless crap day after day on this board! The city is slammed tonite, hmmm.... I wonder why? Gas Prices dropped roughly 30 cents.... it doesn't take a genius to figure out why Atlantic City and the rest of the gaming markets have been struggling. Atlantic City is progressing slowly and surely but it isn't good enough for you so you put down every poster that posts something positive. Its annoying to see your constant bitching and whining. What should AGG do at the Chelsea? Ask for Annie, and say what that he knows the "debbie downer" from the messageboard and he can hope that she "might" buy him a drink. I don't know about him but if Annie is a friend of yours im pretty sure I wouldn't want to hang out with her. This board is about development projects involving Atlantic City, not about regurgiated half truths and crazy rumors. If you don't like improvements made to the city then stop posting here. It really is quite simple, this isn't the Atlantic City Government forum.
So your not man enough to say you were wrong. Development projects are dead throughout the USA and the world.
You may say you are posting something positive, but it's not true. Yes the town is bumping tonight, but it can do 100 times better, is that negative? Shoot for the moon you may land on a star.
Again, I only state fact, the credit crunch is far from over, believe me, I'm in the business.
Don't talk bad about Annie, you don't know her. Speak bad about me, I could give a shit. I can tell you don't know what your talking about.
I regurgitate nothing, I go by what I hear from people on the streets, people serving food and drinks, and the many people that serve you free drinks while you piss your money away at slots.
I heard the party at the Chelsea was jamming tonight. Good food and drink, plenty of "up-scale" people, let's see if it can be sustained.

Intheknow

August 3rd, 2008, 01:48 AM

[quote=giselehaslice;243719]I echo the fact that AC is packed with people.
I was there last night and enjoyed an excellent dinner at Buddakan at the Pier at Caesars. The place was jammed, did'nt thin out until after 12:00. After that, it was time for the boardwalk. Still jammed with people after 12:30. Music at the Beach Bars was blaring and created an energetic atmosphere.

Buddakan in Philadelphis is much better. Boardwalk is poorly lit, and lacking police presence. Can't you people imagine what the boardwalk could be like? Take a look at the pics from Fabrizio of Disney world and tell me that wouldn't be better.

I want this City to be World Class! It won't take much, am I wrong?

zipburn

August 3rd, 2008, 04:54 AM

Intheknow, thanks for questioning my manhood. The triathlon I competed in this morning seemed kind of femine. Its always nice to know that someone "in the business" has no clue what they are doing or even understands basic proven business concepts. Since when do food and beverage employees amount to anything other then entry level jobs in a casino service industry? With the exception being management. What streets do people talk to you on? Pacific Ave. from 10pm-6am? They are service industry employees too. Or is it the illegals pushing their seed babies in strollers along atlantic ave? In all honesty its hard for me to imagine that you actually run a business. It just doesn't add up.

giselehaslice

August 3rd, 2008, 01:41 PM

Buddakan in Philadelphis is much better. Boardwalk is poorly lit, and lacking police presence. Can't you people imagine what the boardwalk could be like? Take a look at the pics from Fabrizio of Disney world and tell me that wouldn't be better.

I want this City to be World Class! It won't take much, am I wrong?

Uh, is'nt it the same restaurant? How can one be better than the other if they have the same exact menu? And the Decor at the AC one is definatley more well planned than the one in Philly. Also, the one in Philly is basically in a Ghost town after 9pm, not the case in AC.

And also, no way do I want Atlantic City to become Disney world. I dont even know why a grown-ups "playground" should model itself after that. They are complete opposite ends of the spectrum.

Lighting on the Boardwalk was 100% better this time than it was last time, so again, wrong.

Yes, AC can be world class, but it'll take alot of Vision, which you should leave to the professionals.

Fabrizio

August 3rd, 2008, 02:05 PM

Disney's understanding of architecture and urban planning is actually very sophisticated. There is indeed a lot to learn from them... as much as from Vegas and SoBeach.

Yes, Disney is a family resort, but that's exactly what LasVegas has been so smart to do: diversify it's offerings.

After 30 years of gambling revenues and a city-scape that, 2 blocks off of the b'walk still looks mostly like Camden, taking a pointer or 2 from other successful resorts might not be such a bad idea.

The city should be beautiful and pleasant enough to attract vacationers with or with out gambling... why not?

It is also a shame that with the dollar so low, Atlantic City can't even capitalize on the big-spending European traveler the way NYC, Vegas and Miami can: Europeans, for the most part, would never think of spending time in a place that looks like AC. Yes, I know.... Vegas is a dump off of the strip and bla-bla-bla.... but the international perception of the place is quite different.

Another view of the Inlet (?):

http://www.flickr.com/photos/bmslou/2704784925/sizes/o/

--

Intheknow

August 3rd, 2008, 05:44 PM

My opinion may differ from yours, that doesn't make me wrong. I have very high standards, it's easier to do something right the first time then to do a half-ass job over and over again.
Our boardwalk can be the best in the world with very little effort, we have the money-100 million for new facades, sickening! Clear the sand berms so we can see the ocean, they protect nothing. If there were a "100 year storm" these would be wiped out in minutes.
Many people and cities emulate successful people and cities for a reason, it's proven to be successful and it's less expensive and risky.
When I am wrong I'll be the first to admit it.

Bashaw will pull the plug on his casino project shortly. Please don't make me say I told you so.

I talk about AC Government because they waste taxpayers money, this money can be used to improve and develop the infrastructure of the City. The taxpayers pay more in lawsuits then anything else. The current president of City Council and the next Mayor(maybe) Langford were awarded 850,000 each, erroniously. Well they spent the money already after being told not to. They are now paying it back in a 30 year installment plan. These are the people leading our City. It's getting worse day by day. This is a fact.

giselehaslice

August 3rd, 2008, 07:49 PM

Well Fabrizio,
You have said that the old Dennis hotel reminds you of Albania, which happens to be in Europe. Maybe AC is appealing to Albanians. (Just Kidding).:D

No, Europeans would'nt spend time in AC, but why can you blame them? I would'nt spend time in not-so-beautiful parts of Europe either. But hopefully, maybe one day AC can cater to the international tourist.

InTheKnow, can you please just stop talking? Thanks.

66nexus

August 3rd, 2008, 07:50 PM

Sorry Fab, but you can't belittle the similarity that people like to dismiss, yes, Vegas is mostly a dump off the strip.

AC's perception comes from its turbulent past. Just as Vegas' did

I'm pretty sure a lot of visitors weren't too big on Vegas before its mega-casinos. Vegas had almost a century of gambling compared to AC's casinos and it only really got hot in the late 80's early 90's. Unfair comparison.

There's several inconsistencies here:

First, some argue that AC is still mostly a dump even with the casinos-

Then the same folks say that they miss the 'old charm' of AC....you know, the same place people rejected which made AC the dump it became.

PS: AC still draws millions of tourists a year (Regardless how close or far they live, if someone does not like a place then they won't go there...simple)

Fabrizio

August 3rd, 2008, 07:59 PM

AC's perception comes from its turbulent past.

No. AC's perception comes from it's present state.

------

From today's Atlantic City Press.... about AC's "World Famous Boardwalk":

ATLANTIC CITY - Rosie Cozzi hasn't been staying in Atlantic City long, but she already knows one section of the Boardwalk to avoid.
"That's why I get off here," the New York woman said as she headed down the ramp onto New Hampshire Avenue.
"It's too bad over there," she added, gesturing toward Maine Avenue. "You trip."
During her first walk in the area Friday night, Cozzi did just that. The next day, an Atlantic City Electric truck got caught in the same spot as it answered a call on the Boardwalk. A wheel went through the wood.
After conducting a study on the Boardwalk, Business Administrator Carol Fredericks wrote memos to Mayor Scott Evans and other city legislators stressing the importance of repairing the famous stretch. It has been about 13 years since major repairs were performed.

Plans are in the works to fix many of the Boardwalk's problem spots, Councilman Dennis Mason said.
But the Inlet area will not be where the work begins in September. That location likely will be included in next year's budget, he said.
Until then, that area will give those walking in certain spots a little more bounce in their walk, as boards move under their weight.
"I felt some boards give," Jim Powell said, as he sat on a bench with his wife, Brenda, and son, Aaron, 14, near Seaside Avenue.
"Of the boardwalks we've been to, this is definitely not one of the nicer ones," Brenda Powell said. "I hit a couple where it felt like they were going to flip up a little."
In comparison, Jim Powell said their Saturday night visit to Ocean City's wooden way was much more pleasant.
Mason, who heads the city's Planning and Development Committee, said the budget allows for the more-trafficked areas to be dealt with this year.
"The Boardwalk Hall area has been bad for quite a while," he said. "That's going to happen right away. At the same time, we're redoing from Texas to Albany avenues."
Revel Entertainment is also committed to fixing a large section of Boardwalk where it's building a $2 billion megaresort.
"According to the company, they have an extensive Boardwalk-restoration program," Revel spokesman Joseph Jaffoni said Monday.
The plan starts at Showboat and would run about six blocks to Rhode Island Avenue, Jaffoni said.
A $900,000 estimate of that area "is a fraction of what they're going to be spending there," he said. A more specific amount was not available.
The city will be responsible for the New Hampshire side, which shouldn't have to wait too long into the next year to see improvements, Mason theorized. That work should bring the repairs into the long-neglected Boardwalk that wraps around the Inlet at Maine Avenue toward Atlantic Avenue.
In the meantime, Mason plans to introduce an ordinance at the next council meeting that would ban all vehicular traffic on the Boardwalk except in emergencies. That would mean a change to the current practice of having police cars patrol the walkway as part of their duties.
"I think I'll have to have a sit-down with the chief (of police, John Mooney)," said Mason, a retired police officer. "I think we should utilize the bicycles up there anyway because they can get in and out of the people traffic quicker."
When Mason first joined the force, he said foot patrols were common on the Boardwalk, with posts every two blocks.
"I don't worry because I have a lightweight truck," said C.B. Sapp, a city plumber who drives up at various spots to check the Beach Patrol stations' plumbing.
The 25-year city employee said he only goes up on the Boardwalk at designated spots. During his visit to the New Hampshire Avenue station, he covered a patch of the walk barely more than the length of his city truck.
But Emanuel Valentine, 16, seemed apprehensive riding in the area on a much lighter vehicle - his bike.
"I'm not too comfortable with it," he said
Valentine just moved to the Inlet and had not been on the Boardwalk there until Monday.
"It feels like you might fall," he said.
Cozzi - whose early exit at New Hampshire Avenue still led her through some questionable boards - walked gingerly as she came from the Boardwalk at Seaside Avenue. That area already is closed to vehicles.
"It's treacherous," she said. "They should have signs that say, 'Be careful.'"

giselehaslice

August 3rd, 2008, 08:26 PM

I've been on the boardwalk hundreds if not thousands of times before and have never tripped. So I do'nt know what they're talking about. I've tripped on Ocean City's boardwalk before, but I'm not complaining about it. People really are just a bunch of Cry-babies. Its wood, it warps, especially in salt air. GET OVER IT! People are'nt falling thru and getting sucked up by quicksand, thank god. That would be a problem worth complaining about.

And I would definatley say that people's perception comes from the past views of AC too. If people made there perception on what AC is today, they would say "WOW, this city has come a long way. It doesnt look like the same place." No question about it.

66nexus

August 3rd, 2008, 10:18 PM

No Fab, all those empty lots and dollar stores and the millions of other things you guys say that's wrong with the city did not get there overnight. A lot of that crap (damn near all of it) is from AC's troubled past.

You wouldn't get smoker's lung from smoking one cigarette...

and BTW, I have no idea why you posted that article

that only proves the present condition of the B'walk, which didn't happen overnight...you said AC's perception comes from its present-state...how do you figure it got there? Please don't say the casinos

Intheknow

August 3rd, 2008, 11:19 PM

Our world famous boardwalk is closed on the south end, pavilions are in disarray or missing roofs, it is being neglected. I don't understand most of your reasoning.
The more people that come to the City the better for the Casinos and their restaurants, even if they are not gamblers.

Atlantic City can be a great resort and casino town at the same time- with very little effort. With development money at a stand still the CITY should concentrate on spending CRDA money on the boardwalk and beach so future developers will have more reason to develop here. Everything is connected.

giselehaslice

August 3rd, 2008, 11:27 PM

CRDA did/is spending money on the boardwalk, the facades.

I wish there was an ignore button on this forum filtering "all annoying and redundant posts", because I would be using it ALL the time.

If all you have to do is complain, we dont want you here. It's as simple as that. Maybe you should make another thread "A pessimistic person's view of Atlantic City."

Intheknow

August 3rd, 2008, 11:35 PM

I'd rather piss you off and prove you wrong. Gee, did you see the new facade on that pizza joint, how about the massage parlor-just wonderful. All for the bargain price of $100,000,000.

Fabrizio

August 4th, 2008, 05:31 AM

and BTW, I have no idea why you posted that article

Again you "have no idea" why I posted an article. Are you able to follow a thread? Let me walk you through this. Please pay attention:

1 - Someone posted a picture of a broken-down section of the boardwalk.

2 - we discussed this broken-down section of the boardwalk.

3- just by chance the Press had an article about this broken-down section of the boardwalk.

4 - sooooo I posted the article.... why?....(now pay attention here) because it pertains to the discussion.

Got it? Clear enough?

----

Nexus: 25-30 years ago NYC was a crime ridden mess. The city was collapsing. The popular perception, it's reputation among average Americans, was very, very poor. NYC was all about muggings and murders... graffiti covered subway trains, garbage strewn streets, druggies, prostitutes, the squalid TimesSquare.....

Today, NYC is seen as a great vacation place... a place to buy a luxury condo. It is known as the biggest city in the US with the lowest crime rate. It is perceved internationaly as a glittering glamorous place.

It's "troubled past" has nothing to do with the popular perception of today's NYC. None. It is a distant memory.

And remember too: In the 1970's, every major American city, large and small, was in the dumps.

The problem with AC, is that 2 blocks off the B'walk, in large stretches of town, very visible to visitors, it's still 1975. (Actually, I say it's worse... but we can dispute that... ).

And this is 30 years after casino gambling... so it has more to do with inept government and planning, lack of vision, and people who constantly, like you folks, make excuses and have low expectations. It is a slothful way of thinking.

In the meantime, Las Vegas is developing a 61 acre new downtown with an Alzheimer’s research center designed by Frank Gehry; a 60-story international center for jewelry trading, a hotel by the chef Charlie Palmer; thousands of residential units and square feet of office space, and a $360 million performing arts center... all designed to be a walkable pleasant neighborhood with nothing to do with gambling.

AS WELL as: MGM's 9 BILLION dollar CityCenter project with work by architects Cesar Pelli, Rafael Vinoly, Norman Foster and Helmut Jahn.

Las Vegas is attracting this kind of serious architectural talent while the Hotel Dennis is painted in clown colors.... and you guys think it's just nifty.

(While we're at it let's also mention Steve Wynn's $2.3 BILLION Encore casino with 2,000 luxury rooms opening this year).

The B'walk is falling apart in places? Well gee.... "get over it"! Hey... it sits there all day long in the salt air.... wadda you want? If you don't like it.... go home. Let's hide behind AC's "troubled past".

Completely ignoring and making excuses for the fact that it has not been repaired in 13 years! This is a city that is raking in millions in gaming revenues!! And it has not been pepaired in 13 years?

But..... hey.... if you don't like it go home.

In the meantime, go to TripAdvisor (the most consulted website of it's kind) type in "Atlantic City Boardwalk" and you get scathing, negative review, after negative review from all over the country. Gee.... duh....I wonder why that is?

But THOSE PEOPLE ARE WRONG. I have a survey here that says that AC is cooler, hipper.... whatever.

AC's own newspaper reports on it, interviewing tourists....but those people are wrong too!! Hey, doesn't Vegas have potholes?

Oh boy...

To a traveller that is spending their good money, it matters nothing that AC is improving... it means nothing that it's come a long way. In today's market, with so much competition, AC better be prepared. Period.

But no... on this thread, among people that claim to love AC, we hear them defending a broken down boardwalk.

Do you guys ever read the NYC threads on this forum? You don't hear people making excuses for mediocrity.

I know AC longer than any of you. Visiting as child during the 60's... living there... returning now and then. Having friends there among the old guard, including a former mayor and his wife. My family has been involved in SoJersey business and politics for most of the last century. We are talking about my home.

So please... when I see the B'walk in that condition, I will speak up.

---

Intheknow

August 4th, 2008, 09:51 AM

Amen.

66nexus

August 4th, 2008, 10:05 AM

^You know what Fab? Fine. You win. So my question for you now is simply this: why don't you move on to a new city that better suits your idea of what a city is?

If AC is so bad, and they just let the city go waste and so on, why are you still torturing yourself? All those cities you name and compare AC to, why don't you exercise your envy and go support one of them? The whining for someone your age about AC is so consistent it's almost unreal.

A new building pops up, you'll find everything wrong with it.

Your argument is the usual (and getting terribly old): "they destroyed all that beautiful architecture _____(*sniff* place tears here)"

NYC is a HORRIBLE comparison to AC. AC's only real market is tourism, people don't go...the place will fall apart. NYC, although tourism is a huge factor it is not the only factor.

To ignore a city's past is choosing to accept ignorance. You, having lived there should know that AC's current state has EVERY-SINGLE-THING to do with its past. You think the casinos were voted in because they just wanted have them there?? No sir! The place was a bigger dump than it is now...the casinos are literally glorified charity and its not a secret. You can really sit there and tell me that AC's current state has nothing to do with its past? You've gone mad.

I'm not a moderator so you don't have to defend the relation to the subject, I was attacking the relevance of the articles you posted.

You know AC longer than any of us...I will buy you the first medal I can find, but until then please understand that it does not make the rest of us ignorant to AC just because we haven't been around since the 60's

Fabrizio

August 4th, 2008, 10:16 AM

1 - I live in Italy.

2 - Expecting the best for a city that I do care about for you is whining. Seeing the b'walk in that shape for you is just peachy.

3 - The ONE person who is consistent and one-note on this thread is you my dear defending every aspect of AC. That is truly unreal.

66nexus

August 4th, 2008, 10:25 AM

1 - I live in Italy.

2 - Expecting the best for a city that I do care about for you is whining.

3 - The ONE person who is consistent and one-note on this thread is you my dear defending every aspect of AC. That is truly unreal.

Oh well hell, that just means you either don't read my posts because you felt insulted, or you're simply getting me confused with the one of the other posters (as evidenced by your assuming my position on the B'walk matter...which I barely commented on).

'Defending every aspect of AC'...I couldn't begin to imagine how you came up with that conclusion. (perhaps because I don't agree with you, and I'm certainly not the only one)

If I am a 'defender', then you sir are the ultimate offender, I see the good in the city while acknowledging the bad. You only acknowledge the bad.

and all the 'tripadvisors' couldn't stop the millions of tourists who still go to AC.

Fabrizio

August 4th, 2008, 11:22 AM

American Gaming Guru

August 4th, 2008, 12:11 PM

WOW! Well, I am pretty consistent too. I am always definitely up-beat about the city. I acknowledge its faults and shortfalls, but I am very optimistic about its future and "pockets of progress".

Sorry folks, I unfortunately did not take any other pics.....I was having to much fun with my friends all weekend.

The Chelsea looks spectacular. Unfortunately, the restaurants and bars were still not open. I heard that they were delayed due to delays getting the CofO form the city. The hotel did right by its guests though. It provided free modest meals and threw massive well-done cocktail parties on both Friday and Saturday. The place was PACKED and the pool scene felt like somthing right out of South Beach.

The hotel still has a ways to go before it is fully up and operational, but I must say that the attention to detail is evident in the construction and really offers a nice addition to the city.

Triborough

August 4th, 2008, 01:04 PM

The best way to sum up Atlantic City is Newark by the Sea, with casinos!

kliq6

August 4th, 2008, 01:25 PM

kliq6

August 4th, 2008, 01:35 PM

You've convinced me.

Actually AC could even capitalize on it's "troubled past" by creating, from Pacific Avenue to the bay, a giant 1970's ghetto theme-park. Build rides going through the abandoned buildings and empty lots.

Or at least plant potatoes.

Rotting Boardwalk? Dress it with sea-weed and do a sea-monster display.... and charge money for it. (make it look even creepier than the Hotel Dennis)

Do a Madame Tussaude's Hall-of-Corruption Pavillion on Gardener's pier with present and past polititians. If there's enough room.

Oh and about Tripadvisor: you really should go on there and set people straight: people are STILL coming to AC, so who-the-hell-cares what they have to say.

You should tell them to stop snitchin'

Tell them they're a bunch of whiners.... what do they expect for 300 dollars a night?.... LasVegas doesn't even HAVE a boardwalk to fall through.

And anyway: what AC needs is less whiners and more winos!

---

Love the ghetto theme park. Your right on the money Fab. Ive been going to AC for 15 years and have family that lived in the area. The fact is that the boardwalk is in bad shape, the tarot card and back rub places are all to prvelant and the city outside of the area right near the casino's is a bad as its ever been. Now I dont agree with saying things have to stay the same and new developments like Revel and Borgata have helped liven up the place but the city overall still needs alot of help.

Fabrizio

August 4th, 2008, 04:13 PM

Oh God.... another WiredNy whiner.

Why don't you just all stay away!:

"I visited Atlantic City once back in the early 90's and was NOT impressed. It was a cold, grey, uninviting experience..." - microserf

"Atlantic City thread gets less than 10 posts in almost 2 years! Shows that AC doesn't hold much mystery or intrigue ..." - Lofter

"Place is a mess." - Ablarc

"Surrounded by a giant ghetto." - Stache

"You'd think all the sleaze squeezed out of Times Square would have relocated here, maybe just off the Boardwalk. Is it zoned out?" - ablarc

"Last time I was there AC itself made me queasy" - Lofter

"The casinos in AC blow. " - G_Money

"Besides the boardwalk, what else is there? Seriously, it's mosty wasteland/ghetto." - Marv95

"just can't see people saying.."Let's go take a weeks vacation in AC." -
voodoochild

"I was in Atlantic City two summers ago for a day trip. Hadn't been there since I was a little kid, so I didn't really know what to expect. The city itself was a dump." - Pianoman.

And it goes on and on.

66nexus

August 4th, 2008, 06:03 PM

^What does it prove?

how do you explain the phenomenon then Fab? You could quote every wiredNyer that ever posted, the simple fact you absolutely nothing for is that millions of people still go...

I mean c'mon! Your answer to that was quoting people...on here!

I could listen to the same "oh AC is dirty this...AC has that..." and the Vegas comparisons and so on. The fact remains

It seems that everyone wants to start from the finish line. AC starts experiencing its first boom since the legalization of gambling, then all of a sudden you want it to be South Beach already.

What was Vegas before all those mega-casinos on the Strip? Since you love bringing up Vegas (as recommended before, you should just support that city)

JCexpert558

August 4th, 2008, 06:09 PM

Everybody look, this thread is called AC seeks new image not lets all fight and crit. AC. Also Fabrizo, if you want to talk about AC's problems, start a new thread because nobody wants to her your crap about AC.

66nexus

August 4th, 2008, 06:15 PM

lofter1

August 4th, 2008, 06:30 PM

... Fabrizo, if you want to talk about AC's problems, start a new thread because nobody wants to her your crap about AC.

Speak for yourself, please.

Fabrizio's AC "crap" is the most entertaining thing about the town.

The place itself is dullsville.

NYatKNIGHT

August 4th, 2008, 07:37 PM

I have to agree. It is absolutely legitimate for people to criticize. The thread is about Atlantic City seeking a new image. Bolstering AND criticism of that new image are fair game especially since, after all the time and the amount of money that could have been spent to improve the city itself, the city is where they are now. Insight to the past, especially architecturally, is appreciated. The remarkable thing is that Atlantic City is seeking Las Vegas' identity at all, when it should be seeking its own original but lost identity. So the new development most certainly should be scrutinized.

If anyone should start another thread its those that only want to talk about fun times in Atlantic City and how great it is. I don't know what good that does, but fine. Believe it or not though, this lively discussion is one of the most interesting I've ever read about the city and I hope it continues. Let's just please refrain from name-calling.

American Gaming Guru

August 4th, 2008, 07:47 PM

Agreed, criticism is fair game, as long as we keep our facts straight. I don't think false rumors or speculation does anyone a service.

BTW. I forgot to report back to everyone on progress on The Chelsea.

Upon check-in this past weekend, guests were given a brochure that had the following "Opening Schedule":

Chelsea Luxe rooms: now available
Chelsea Prime, the 5th Floor, Teplitzky's: opening early August
Chelsea Lite rooms: opening mid-August
Sea Spa: opening mid-September

66nexus

August 4th, 2008, 07:55 PM

Absolutely correct, AC should indeed chase its own identity instead of Vegas' which is why I hate Vegas-to-AC comparisons.

Casino themes are cool and everything but a major factor in why its just starting to experience a construction boom is that they started it wrong with structures like the Taj and Bally's.

I'm hopeful for the newer structures starting with the expansions, Revel etc.

JCexpert558

August 4th, 2008, 10:57 PM

Well then im sorry Fabrizo for that.

JCexpert558

August 4th, 2008, 10:59 PM

But I'm saying though ,AC isn't the worst place to be on earth.

Intheknow

August 4th, 2008, 11:03 PM

Is calling someone a silly goose name calling?

Replace the boardwalk, make it wider, get rid of the sand berms, then we'll tackle the next obstacle. This can be accomplished quickly and efficiently.

Iraq is less depressing then Atlantic City if you live there, as I do. The reason I say this, it is so under-utilzed.

zipburn

August 5th, 2008, 01:14 AM

I think most people interested in Atlantic City detest the comparison to Vegas, that being said Vegas is on the down swing. Where as Atlantic City is doing quite well for the shape the market is in right now. If gas prices continue to tumble I expect a strong month of August. They got a very good start this weekend as Sat. night seemed to be as crowded as July 4th. There is an already acknowledged point that seems to be brought up over and over again. We already know the government sucks, a bunch of crooked democrats. You got a mentally challenged, selected not elected mayor who walks down the street with a bunch of unskilled labor and its ok that it shuts down pacific ave. It's ashame the county can't take over the city that would be a real quick fix. Second the Schiff brothers which are glorified slum lords own most of those shops and are keeping the boardwalk from becoming something great. Another point Atlantic City isn't part of Mexico/Central America. People need to grow a pair and deport the illegal immigrants that are slowly destroying neighborhoods. The slumlords don't repair their propertys because of their illegal tenants. We all realize AC isn't perfect but some posters use backwards logic to justify putting down an investment that betters the city. If there were no sand dunes there would be no beach. Right now there is hardly anything left of a beach at states avenue. With out the dunes the water would be washing under the boardwalk. Progress is moving slowly but the city is much better then it was 10 to 20 years ago.

giselehaslice

August 5th, 2008, 01:42 AM

This is seriously the most annoying thread on the entire board. It's just retarded how some people have to spend all there energy digging deep into this and/or other forums to show THEIR side to the point. It would make alot more sense if they showed a neutral view, but heck...what am I expecting? That's def. not possible with these Immature, Elitist, and crybaby members who think they know everything, but in reality just pretend to know it all.

SURE GLAD I DONT KNOW YOU GUYS, I WOULD WANT TO BLAST MY BRAINS OUT AROUND YOU!

Have a good night <3333 X0x0x0x0x0xx0
Love,
GISELE

JCexpert558

August 5th, 2008, 01:47 AM

Really AC is not that bad, I mean there is alot of crime and stuff like that, but overall, it's a pretty good place, I mean it has the walk, Air show ,Sometimes they have those Import car shows, and a pretty decent Boardwalk. Also does anybody have any new info about Planet Hollywood coming to Atlantic City.

Fabrizio

August 5th, 2008, 03:24 AM

About those sand dunes: I am wondering if that is the best solution for the problem of erosion. Is there any info out there about studies investigating this problem?

Amazing that AC was able to maintain for so long, such wide flat beaches. When did the problem of erosion start to occur? Was it caused by a change in tides? What's going on?

Considering AC's and NewJersey's famously corrupt way of doing things, I can only wonder if those huge, ugly, view blocking dunes are the best way to go. This IS a city that in it's modern day form seems to have no understanding of asthetics and the economic impact of ugliness.

Those weed covered dunes just could be a very heavy handed way of getting the job done... I would really like to know if there might be more pleasing solutions.

----

Below is a postcard of AC from the 1960's featuring the magnificent Traymore Hotel. I find it interesting how the Loews in Miami has picked up the architectural spirit of the Traymore (and how most present day towers in AC are so dreary by comparison):

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v33/ronaldo/337502965_7a3fc99586_b.jpg

Intheknow

August 5th, 2008, 07:34 AM

AGG- Can you give a few more details of your stay at Chelsea? It is the newest development in AC. I thought Chelsea Prime was open, Tiplitzkys will not be open early August, did you look at it, if you did you'll have to agree.

ZippyTheChimp

August 5th, 2008, 08:25 AM

Amazing that AC was able to maintain for so long, such wide flat beaches. When did the problem of erosion start to occur? Was it caused by a change in tides? What's going on?Complicated question; here's just a few points:

Sea level rule of thumb: One foot rise in sea level = 100 foot loss of shoreline. Deeper water also increases wave energy that erodes beaches. Although the problem appears to be accelerating, it wasn't much of a factor in the past. Sea level has risen an average of 6 inches in the last 100 years.

Sand dune creation is a natural phenomenon of coastal beaches. The plants that take hold are salt-water tolerant, and provide a barrier for uplands. Development stops that process.

Sand transportation - probably the biggest impact post-development. When coastal communities construct jetties and other barriers, the process of natural beach replacement is halted.

You can see this clearly on a Google-Earth view of the western end of Rockaway Peninsula. Sand transport is east to west. A jetty constructed around the end of the peninsula in the 1930s stopped further growth westward, and the sand is piling up behind it.

All the Atlantic coastal communities have been screwing each other, and themselves.

American Gaming Guru

August 5th, 2008, 11:01 AM

Unfortunately I do not have much more to say about The Chelsea, other than the 5th Floor bars, lounges etc (Including Chelsea Prime) look finished and ready to go, but were not open yet this past weekend.

The pool area is open and operating with the exception of the bar area and food service.

The hotel responded by providing free breakfast, lunch and cocktail parties which was considerate of them. But I too am anxious to experience the new venues that The Chelsea has to offer. As per my previously posted pics, the spaces are intriguing and well thought-out. I think they really offer a wonderful addition to the city while also paying homage to AC's ever celebrated past.

We all know the exterior is nothing to get excited about. It is clearly inside the hotel where all the money was spent and I don't think anyone on this thread would be disappointed by it.

I will probably be back there in a week or two. I will provide a follow-up.

In regards to the dunes, they are man-made in AC as are many of them up and down many of the populated sections of the eastern seaboard. I grew up on Long Island and like AC, we had beautiful, large open beaches. You could see for miles. It was in the late 80's and early 90's when many LI beaches experienced terrible erosion problems many times as a result of violent storms that hit the coast. Under federal grants and actions of the Army Corps of Engineers, many areas of the east coast implemented a comprehensive dune construction program to prevent further erosion and with the commitment that the Corps would replenish the beach side of the dunes every few years. This has been the case on LI and has worked out well. While yes, the dunes are hideous to look at, they do serve a larger purpose and in AC, a few of you are right. There is practically no beach left at the North end of the boardwalk (by the Taj and Revel in particular). I can not imagine where the beach would be without those dunes in place.

ZippyTheChimp

August 5th, 2008, 11:10 AM

Yes, the dunes will not stop beach erosion. The lost sand must be replaced by human effort.

This was also done at Coney Island/Brighton. There was a real Under the Boardwalk when the song was written. Now the sand is right under the planks.

Fabrizio

August 5th, 2008, 02:00 PM

"Under The Planks" just doesn't have the same ring to it.

But it does rhyme with "wanks" and "thanks" ... so I guess you could get a storyline goin'.

----

Thanks for the info about the dunes.... interesting stuff.

FELIXIMP

August 5th, 2008, 05:32 PM

The Schiff brothers are just down right slum lords.It seems to me the Schiff's are just milking A.C. for all it's worth and are just greedy, no vision carpet baggers.

Last I checked, carpet baggers by definition are not long-time residents of the areas they loot. I worked for the Schiff Brothers for many summers when I was in my teens: call them what you will, but they were two of the most normal, humble guys I ever met - Abe drove around in a Yugo or something similar for years because he didn't care. Truth is, those guys were born in AC and had nothing and bought all their land when no one else wanted it. They had the vision; and they employed hundreds of people who couldn't get jobs elsewhere. You don't know them so I suggest you not level personal attacks. And besides, last I checked, this was America and we are supposed to like capitalism.

Fabrizio

August 5th, 2008, 05:40 PM

A multi-millionare driving a Yugo can be a sign of humility, but it can also be a sign of paranoid cheapness.

American Gaming Guru

August 5th, 2008, 07:33 PM

Well said FELIXIMP. I too admire humility; however, The Schiffs seem to have been a major obstacle towards rehabilitation of the boardwalk. They do not re-invest in or maintain their properties. The CRDA had a hard time convincing the Schiffs to let the CRDA spend $100 million of CRDA funding on their own properties just so the places look decent. It is my understanding that the Schiffs wanted nothing to do with it and held up the project for quite some time.

Also, that dilapidated Schiff Pier and "dead zone" that they own most of in AC are just disgraceful and give the city the seedy reputation that it does not deserve.

By your account it seems that they had been quite generous to the city in the past. Why not now? Am I wrong? I would love to know more about them.

zipburn

August 5th, 2008, 08:27 PM

Also, that dilapidated Schiff Pier and "dead zone" that they own most of in AC are just disgraceful and give the city the seedy reputation that it does not deserve.

By your account it seems that they had been quite generous to the city in the past. Why not now? Am I wrong? I would love to know more about them.

If they were generous, they would let a non-profit put up a sign to cover their obtrusive rust covered billboards that cover most of central pier. They don't have to because their billboard was there before they made the rules. Most if not all of Schiff's properties are EYESORES! They bought them when they were cheap with no plan to improve them. They are not part of the solution in Atlantic City they are part of the problem. They grew up selling cheap services and applied that to most of their boardwalk properties. I am all for captialism but I have no respect when people like the Schiff's create a monopoly of trash in which they are the only winners. The products most of their tenants offer are way overpriced trash from china. Thank god for the CRDA otherwise the Schiff's would keep the boardwalk looking like trash until they passed on.

Intheknow

August 5th, 2008, 08:48 PM

Didn't the Schiffs recently sell?

American Gaming Guru

August 5th, 2008, 09:42 PM

They only sold the horrendous looking shops and cheep buffet in front of The Dennis to Harrah's (for a ridiculously over-inflated price) after years at balking at fair offers form previous owners of the hotel.

lofter1

August 5th, 2008, 09:53 PM

Considering this place is called Wired NEW YORK you really shouldn't be so surprise :cool:

This is seriously the most annoying thread on the entire board. It's just retarded how some people have to spend all there energy digging deep into this and/or other forums to show THEIR side to the point.

Intheknow

August 5th, 2008, 09:58 PM

Fair offers are in the eye of the beholder. Maybe they'll buy Bader Field.

The credit market is looking bad, we have yet to hit bottom. Development is slowing dramatically everyday. I hope Revel gets completed. For that matter, I hope the Chelsea gets completed.

giselehaslice

August 5th, 2008, 11:07 PM

Considering this place is called Wired NEW YORK you really shouldn't be so surprise :cool:

Wait, what?

ZippyTheChimp

August 6th, 2008, 12:16 AM

When a thread becomes annoying and frustrating, sometimes the best thing to do is put it in read-only mode, or take a complete break from it for a while, and direct your attention to other topics.

But if your main interest is Atlantic City, that might not be so easy to do on a Wired New York forum.

Intheknow

August 6th, 2008, 01:07 AM

I've noticed that this summer there have been alot fewer boardwalk parades, the Seafood festival, that was awesome at Gardners Basin (moved last year to the parking lot of Bernie Robbins Stadium-lame) did not happen this summer, the upcoming airshow appears to be the same old same old (remember the Thunderbirds and Blue Angels at the same time? Or the F-22 Raptor? The Stealth bomber? The Harrier Jet?) not this year.

Little things like this compliment a City and draw people.

Just something I've noticed, don't know why it is.

Let me know when someone starts to develop something/anything.

American Gaming Guru

August 6th, 2008, 10:57 AM

Am I the only one dumbfounded by this?

I made the following comment on The Press' website:

"The timing is terrible. While there will undoubtedly be plenty of interest for the land, the city should sit on it a bit longer until (1) the credit markets recover and (2) a full-term mayor is elected to provide stability in city hall.

Short-sighted decisions made for a quick buck usually look regrettable in retrospect."

Thoughts?

New timeline coming for Bader Field development

By MICHAEL CLARK Staff Writer, 609-272-7204

Published: Tuesday, August 05, 2008

ATLANTIC CITY - Potential developers eyeing Bader Field for casino development might get their first look at what it will take to obtain the 140-acre tract as early as next week.
City officials have laid out a timetable to get the bid proposal circulated for the prized parcel, which has been loosely valued at about
$1 billion.
City Council members are expected to submit their final recommendations for the bid proposal today. They will likely include minor additions such as development regulations and affirmative-action guidelines.
Jones Lang LaSalle Americas Inc., a Philadelphia firm recently hired to shape the bid proposal, is scheduled to send the finished proposal back to council Thursday for final approval. Council is expected to sign-off on the proposal Aug. 11, which will likely lead to its public circulation the next day.

"I wanted to put their feet to the fire on this now because we're way behind schedule," Councilman Dennis Mason said of the new timeline.

Delays have plagued the request for proposal, or RFP, which officials projected to be advertised back in March.
Bidders will be given 60 days to respond to the RFP. Mason said the city could award a developer with the property by November, but the timing will depend on how long the state's Local Finance Board reviews it.
New Jersey legislators previously approved a bill that allows state oversight of the deal, with underlying concerns of corruption and mishandling.
The municipal airport on Bader Field closed in September 2006. Since then, several people have faced federal charges after taking or offering bribes for access to the tract.
Although the state will only review the final deal, Mason said the city would send the Local Finance Board a copy of the bid proposal as a courtesy.
Jones Lang LaSalle initially received a $350,000 consulting contract from the Casino Reinvestment Development Authority to help with Bader Field. However, friction between the city and the state agency led to the CRDA relinquishing the firm, in essence, to cut out the middleman.
The firm, which recently received a $240,250 contract from the city, had completed the majority of the bid proposal when the city hired it.
CRDA Director Thomas D. Carver said Monday that the authority is now mostly removed from Bader Field's development since the city hired Jones Lang LaSalle.
City officials and the CRDA developed a contentious relationship over Bader Field at the start of the year after the authority offered a deal to become the site's redevelopment agent days before the city received its first land offer.
The $800 million offer from Penn National Gaming prompted Carver to call the deal a scam. City legislators responded by brushing off the CRDA's proposal as a weak attempt to gain control of city property.
But the city's agreement to sign on Jones Lang LaSalle comforted Carver and the authority.
"The City Council has shown good judgment. They have the best firm to assist them," Carver said. "Everybody took a step back and realized that we were really working in concert with each other. We're happy with where this is at and now we're stepping aside."
Carver, however, left open the possibility of the authority assisting with the property's development in the future.
E-mail Michael Clark: Michael.Clark@pressofac.com (Michael.Clark@pressofac.com)

Intheknow

August 6th, 2008, 11:16 AM

I know City Council is corrupt, and I'll bet my house the CRDA is corrupt. By corrupt I mean, not looking out for the best interest of the taxpayers. This deal will be mired in shit for a few years, so they may as well start the process, by the time the dust settles the property values may rebound.

This Bader Field deal is huge and these dirty politicians are going to want to get their share, cha-ching. It's not "if" they'll screw this up, but "how bad" they'll screw this up.

American Gaming Guru

August 6th, 2008, 01:24 PM

I am on the Pinnacle Entertainment earnings call right now. Here are some encouraging comments made by company CEO Dan Lee on the future of their AC resort development:

- They bought "quite a bit of land" over the last 6 months. Their official Q2 earnings release has expenses "including $5.3 million for the Atlantic City project". Mr. Lee also noted that they are "largely done in land acquisitions" and that there are two large land owners in the middle of the project that are asking unreasonable prices for their land that Pinnacle has determined to "work around them". He also noted that this has been common in both Atlantic City and Las Vegas and that they have a sufficient foot-print for their project. To date Pinnacle has bought appx. 22-23 acres of land at an appx. price of $359,000,000 ($422,000,000 including capitalized interest).

- Mr. Lee also noted that they "are almost done with the conceptual design" and that over the next quarter they will be "getting into the next phase of the project" of street re-configuration and widening in conjunction with the CRDA which they believe will cost them appx. $10-$15 million dollars over the next 15 months. Additionally he noted that the "next phase" will include gaining entitlements and seeking restaurateurs to occupy the property.

- The most important notes; however, seem to me to be that they are getting the project ready for when the credit markets reopen. He noted that carrying costs include $4,000,000 in real estate taxes, $2,000,000 for a hotel lease (The Madison Hotel) and less than $1,000,000 in on-site payroll costs. Additionally expenses include legal and design fees. In summary, they called their carrying costs a "manageable expense to carry the project INDEFINATELY" until they can acquire favorable financing.

Folks, that sounds like a pretty good commitment to me. I know the city has been finagled in the past, but I for one, think Pinnacle is the real thing.

Fabrizio

August 6th, 2008, 01:46 PM

What is their commitment to giving us as far as city street-life goes?....will the side streets be places you will want to walk along? What will the Pacific Ave side be like? Shops and restaurants? and on the Boardwalk frontage?

For any top-notch town, these things would be of utmost importance. Or will this development just add to AC's no-man's landscape of chilling blank walls and parking garages.

Are they adding to the desolation or helping to bring back a sense of place?

What is the city requiring of them?

If you have any info please let us know.

-------

Below:

Another example of how the spirit of AtlanticCity's past lives on in new developments... built elswhere.

Left is a pic of AC charming Inlet neighborhood (which today still looks like Desden after the bombing). To the right is SeaSide Florida. Note how the architecture (4 sided peaked roofs topped with turrets) and placement of the homes is very much the same. Will AC ever be able to again develope anything with such taste and eye for beauty?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v33/ronaldo/51949445.jpg

Intheknow

August 6th, 2008, 02:48 PM

Without a planning committee or stable government AC will never have a plan. Officials don't even have a vision for the city, unless you count one way Pacific/Atlantic. The "Master Plan" is a joke. These people aren't qualified to plan my dinner parties let alone a City. Wouldn't you want someone who has an inkling on how to plan? Maybe get some advice?

There is a rumor that AC has a Boardwalk Committee, you can see the progress, more appropriate-regress, of the Boardwalk.

This madness must stop, I wish I had an answer.

Pinnacle will not break ground within the next three years, at the earliest. Isn't there a minimum of 20 acres to build a Casino?

Fabrizio

August 6th, 2008, 03:26 PM

The city will be stuck with another empty lot in middle of town for how many years?

How about planting grass and letting sheep roam...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v33/ronaldo/8422512.jpg

zipburn

August 6th, 2008, 11:33 PM

they do have the turret style architecture used in the new houses that border maine ave. west of the flagship...

zipburn

August 6th, 2008, 11:44 PM

Am I the only one dumbfounded by this?

No, I am with you on this one. Just shows how unintelligent the people that run Atlantic City are. This is like the moron Judge Stien who is milking the Tropicana for all its worth, saying he wants better offers. I just don't understand how people can be so dense.

Why in hell would you put the RFP's out with no credit market? This is like the city not letting Revel finance through the city to pay for a job the city is supposed to do in the first place.

Intheknow

August 6th, 2008, 11:46 PM

Yea, but do they have sheep?

giselehaslice

August 7th, 2008, 12:16 AM

Intheknow

August 7th, 2008, 01:12 AM

That's the whole point! "No one has any idea yet". Why not? Shouldn't they have a great idea? I mean they are investing 2 billion dollars!

This shows they don't care. Put up 4 walls, add slots and tables, collect the money. It's business, and without any gov. or civic input the trend will continue, sadly.

zipburn

August 7th, 2008, 01:59 AM

It's business, and without any gov. or civic input the trend will continue, sadly.

Last thing i would want running a business is an input from some halfwit corrupt politicians(especially democrats) or race baiting civic "leaders" and their organizations. They have intelligence they don't listen to the current AC gov. or any current AC civic losers.

JCexpert558

August 7th, 2008, 02:16 AM

How tall do you guys think Pinnancles mega casino will be based on how tall his recent projects were:confused:

Intheknow

August 7th, 2008, 09:31 AM

About as high as the bottom of my foot. Send in the sheep.

American Gaming Guru

August 7th, 2008, 10:43 AM

A bit of good news for Revel. Good move on behalf of city council over all. It shows that they are pro business and pro redevelopment.

Atlantic City Council passes $56M. Revel bond ordinance

By MICHAEL CLARK Staff Writer, 609-272-7204

Published: Thursday, August 07, 2008

ATLANTIC CITY - Revel Entertainment Group successfully dodged the effects of a sagging credit market Wednesday when City Council approved a $56 million bond ordinance to help with road improvements around the developer's casino project.

The approval allows Revel to begin negotiating the bond's financial terms with the city, which will act as a vehicle to deliver lower interest rates to Revel from private bond holders.
The bond, which allows Revel as many as 30 years for repayment, will assist in a $90 million project to redesign access roads around the $2 billion waterfront casino project.
Connecticut Avenue would be widened to six lanes, which will run from Melrose Avenue all the way to the Boardwalk.
The Casino Reinvestment Development Authority approved the roadway project in July, after Revel CEO Kevin DeSanctis emphasized that the megaresort would not work without wider roads for traffic.

Should Revel default on the bond, the private bond holders would place a lien on the 20-acre property and reacquire the land for about a quarter of its value.

"We've said all along that the city has no chance to be holding the bag," said Lloyd D. Levenson, a Revel attorney. "We're happy they did this, it's a smart move for them."
The ordinance passed 6-1, with Councilman Steven Moore the lone no vote. Councilman Dennis Mason abstained and Councilman Marty Small was absent.
Although he voted to approve the ordinance, Councilman Timothy Mancuso was the most vocal opposition to the bill, simply because of the way it was presented by Revel.
"I don't like being told we're under the gun and being held hostage," he said, accusing the company of rushing the deal.
Mancuso proceeded to question Mayor Scott Evans, Engineer William Rafferty and Planning Director William Crane about whether Revel provided any detailed breakdown for the bond and how the money would be used.
Their answers were generally the same: No.
Mancuso then brandished a copy of a short summary of the plan that he said was not sufficient and was supplied by Revel attorneys just before the meeting.
But Council President William Marsh reminded Mancuso that the city was not actually paying for the project with credit or anything else.
"We didn't have a budget on how much we're paying because we're not paying anything," he said.
The creative arrangement, which Revel officials insist leaves the city with nothing to lose, was enabled through the use of a state law passed in 2002.
Most residents that spoke publicly Wednesday reiterated similar complaints made at a public hearing held last week, questioning why the city was catering to the developer without getting something substantial in return.
"We have wonderful casinos now, but we're still wearing the same old dirty underwear," resident Jeff Rosenberger said. "You've gotta take care of the underwear, too."
Councilman Moore, the lone no vote on the bill, felt the same.
"We need to put some fire to the feet in this negotiation," said Moore. "We've learned doing it after we've already voted for it it doesn't really work."
Joseph Kelly, president of the Atlantic City Regional Mainland Chamber of Commerce, was one of the few members of the public who endorsed the measure.
"The economy is challenged and Revel has continued to invest in this city," Kelly told council members. "We need that investment. It's important to us that this happens."
E-mail Michael Clark: Michael.Clark@pressofac.com (Michael.Clark@pressofac.com)

American Gaming Guru

August 7th, 2008, 10:49 AM

Pinky's Corner

MGM Delays Development http://www.acweekly.com/images/shim.gif by Pinky Kravitz (pinky@acweekly.com)

http://www.acweekly.com/images/shim.gif

Word has reached this columnist that the proposed MGM Mirage development in Atlantic City, which was to begin groundbreaking in the fall of this year, has been delayed. MGM Mirage officials have let it be known that the company has the funding in place for its $4.5 billion project, which would encompass the full 76 acres that it owns adjacent to the Borgata. It is anticipated that, if the economic condition in the nation picks up, MGM Mirage would commence building in late 2009 or early 2010. This would move the completion date back to late 2012 or early 2013.

JCexpert558

August 7th, 2008, 12:29 PM

About as high as the bottom of my foot. Send in the sheep.

Man I agree with your opinion but dont you think that's a little bit to tall LOL

zipburn

August 8th, 2008, 12:25 AM

How tall do you guys think Pinnancles mega casino will be based on how tall his recent projects were:confused:

It will be up there, from what was said awhile ago a little above 600(i believe 618 to be exact). They might have changed their minds though with the mgm and revel plans released. They still have to wait for the new post office to be built on the corner of atlantic and indiana before they can demolish the current post office. The steel frame is already up on the new office building which will hold the new one. Just recently they demolished the building next to the marburg and the marburg. You can see they are taking their time but they are doing work that needed to be done before any development could happen in the first place. They will build its just going to be delayed a little because of the current market status. They still have to demolish the left over part of the parking garage that is next to the madison. It looks as though their footprint will wrap around the madison and show up back on pacific and kentucky next to the arts building which is under current renovation. It seems as though the madison will be saved. I could be wrong but I doesn't seem likely that the madison will be removed. If I had to speculate It will probably continue to be used as offices as it is now or later as a luxury hotel/condo with an old charm.

American Gaming Guru

August 8th, 2008, 11:13 AM

I think Pinnacle would like nothing more than to demolish The Madison. I have no insight, just a gut feeling by listening to their earnings calls. I do not think that will happen though and glad that hopefully it will not. That old hotel really does have some great charm to it. It is also protected (somewhat anyway) by being listed on the National Register of Historical Places:

Madison Hotel (added 1984 - Building - #84000506)
Also known as Madison House
123 S. Illinois Ave., Atlantic City http://www.nationalregisterofhistoricplaces.com/nr-images/3x3.gifHistoric Significance: Architecture/Engineering, Event Architect, builder, or engineer: Price & Walton Architectural Style: Other, Colonial Revival Area of Significance: Architecture, Commerce Period of Significance: 1925-1949 Owner: Private Historic Function: Domestic Historic Sub-function: Hotel Current Function: Domestic Current Sub-function: Hotel

http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:8jClH0S9QzxRrM:http://www.atlantic-city-online.com/hotels/images/madison-house-exterior.gif (http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.atlantic-city-online.com/hotels/images/madison-house-exterior.gif&imgrefurl=http://www.atlantic-city-online.com/hotels/madisonhouse.shtml&h=195&w=154&sz=28&hl=en&start=3&um=1&tbnid=8jClH0S9QzxRrM:&tbnh=104&tbnw=82&prev=/images%3Fq%3DThe%2BMadison%2BHouse,%2BAtlantic%2BC ity%26ndsp%3D21%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26rls%3Dcom.mic rosoft:en-us:IE-SearchBox%26rlz%3D1I7GFRC%26sa%3DN)

The Sands put some money into renovating it not too long ago. It would be great if Pinnacle incorporated it into their new resort. A complete restoration and addition of a boutique/old world charm hotel could be a great amenity.

American Gaming Guru

August 8th, 2008, 12:05 PM

Apparently all the LUXE tower amenities are now fully open. From their website:

Come celebrate our Grand Opening with a stay at Chelsea Luxe.</B>
Dive in at the Pool or soak in the sun at our terrace patio, then meet us for a fabulous dining experience at Stephen Starr's Chelsea Prime. After dinner, grab a cool cocktail at the 5th Floor before retiring to your elegant room in our posh Chelsea Luxe tower.

Our Chelsea Luxe rooms, Chelsea Prime restaurant, the Pool and
the 5th Floor are now open. Come and join the excitement.</B>
Opening soon: Chelsea Lite, Teplitzky's, and Sea Spa

kliq6

August 8th, 2008, 12:17 PM

But I'm saying though ,AC isn't the worst place to be on earth.

No that honor in America goes to Cleveland and Detroit, but AC aint far behind

Intheknow

August 9th, 2008, 06:09 PM

The Chelsea is getting some unflattering reviews. Opened before they should have, staff is ill equipped (training) and the basics, checking in, is a nightmare. Why doesn't anyone listen to me?

giselehaslice

August 9th, 2008, 06:16 PM

The Chelsea is getting some unflattering reviews. Opened before they should have, staff is ill equipped (training) and the basics, checking in, is a nightmare. Why doesn't anyone listen to me?

Where are you getting this info? And the reason people don't listen to you is very clear, but let's let you figure it out.

Intheknow

August 9th, 2008, 09:45 PM

66nexus

August 9th, 2008, 10:07 PM

People on the street. Also, check out Hotels.com. It appears that everything you refute me on is coming to fruition....Revel, Pinnacle, MGM, AC Gateway.... Retarded City officials....lack of planning...revenues going down,down,down....

Now I did here that the Chelsea Prime was excellent, this comes from a waitress at the Tropicana, she should know.

Atlantic City is at a stand still when it comes to developing, it is also getting dirtier by the day. Our image is not being enhanced, it's down right depressing.

Well, many tourist areas revenues are also going 'down, down, down.'

And by AC being at a stand still I take it you mean after Harrah's tower, Trump's tower, Water Club, and the Chelsea and the yet to be finished Revel then? One hell of a stand still.

Understandable that you live in AC and everything, but the whole 'I heard it from a guy' holds absolutely no grounds of validity.

AC11

August 9th, 2008, 10:15 PM

intheknow...
its called perspective. It means a mental view or outlook. And it is what dictates how we all view the world around us. Your posts are constantly being put forth with an extremely negative perspective.

If you are a local as you say you are, and if you want to see the city succeed as you claim to, then why must you berate it at every chance? As a stakeholder in the future of AC, you, and the rest of us, should be trying our best to pump up the great aspects of the city, and correct the worst.

Life can suck, or life can inspire. Its all in how you look at it.

For example: You could show a picture of Atlantic City on a beautiful summer morning with locals and visitors enjoying walks and bike rides on the Boardwalk, or eating breakfast at one of the cafes near Tropicana, or you can show a gloomy picture on a rainy day, with nothing going on. Which would it be?

There are many of us here (Guru, Gisele, zipburn, JC, to name a few) who enjoy conversations about the potential of Atlantic City, and about the projects that are going on and sometimes how the past plays into that. Yes we have criticism, and that is not a bad thing. And we all know what kind of shape the market is in. But we still see potential. If we didn't, we wouldn't be here.

Why doesn't anyone listen to me?

It's because of your perspective.

Intheknow

August 9th, 2008, 10:32 PM

AC has tremendous potential. It is just being wasted. Building a Casino with no street level existance is not what I call progress.

As for people strolling and riding on boardwalk, pretty soon they may not be legal, due to the fact the foundation is falling apart.

As for refering to people on the street, they are the trueist and best source of info. Please check hotels.com concerning Chelsea if you want proof of my statement. I'll rely on people on the street.

The boardwalk is a mess, I'm not lying, take a walk or ride on it, don't you think it could and should be world class?

My standards must be higher then the posters you mentioned.

And another thing, have you been to the WALK? Have you experienced the traffic patterns that were designed-it's awful! Same with the Marina district traffic patterns, it's like LA, but for what reason, they had a flat peice of land to work with.

Now, again, they want to make Pacific and Atlantic one-way, idiots. Traffic is not bad here, I don't get it. well I do, the politicians want to line there pockets with all this nonsensical, huge projects. That's why the little things don't get done in this town.

I still have faith in Atlantic City, I just wish the developers would utilize the Beach and Boardwalk more instead of closing these assets of to the public.

Fabrizio

August 10th, 2008, 09:57 AM

Re: Hotel Chelsea reviews at hotel.com

Reviewers mention that the Hotel was in previews... so I think readers will take that into consideration but even so, a 3,2 rating is a disaster.

Of 14 reviewers 6 do not reccomend the place. Not good.

Random quotes:

"We also had to stand in line for 43 minutes, listening to everyone in line complain about the hotel. In my opinion this is unacceptable for a hotel that is new."

"they seemed slow and unorganized. "

"The lobby and the rooms were not upscale at all. Room was not 4-star or luxury."

"Although I'd love for this to succeed, i'm a bit skeptical."

"The lobby and the rooms were not upscale. It has a good location as long as they can figure out how to check you in before your trip is over."

"Some of the staff was wonderful, some was incredibly rude and unprofessional. When we went to check in, there was a line of 20 people at the front desk, all of whom were waiting to complain!"

http://www.hotels.com/property.do?searchMtmPropertySupplierId=&propertyIdsToCompareString=&COMonth=-1&PSRC=ORG100&TSRC=1&numrooms=1&searchType=&usertypedcity=Atlantic+City+area%2C+New+Jersey%2C+ US&alternateSell=&acDestinationId=DB9D214A-362E-499C-9C14-B7073EF0CA2C&allPropertyTypesSelected=true&COYear=2008&CODay=-1&paging=1&acDestinationType=1&searchID=AC102636-8EA7-C911-BAB2-8C3401905D52&CIYear=2008&mtnHotelID=406252&destination=DB9D214A-362E-499C-9C14-B7073EF0CA2C&roomOccupancyString=1%7C%7C2%7C0%7C0&CIDay=-1&sortBy=HCOMPICK&s=1&position=3&CIMonth=-1

However: Tripadvisor, while only having 2 reviews, they are at least positive.

But overall, for the present, a traveler doing a search about ratings for the Hotel Chelsea would come away with a rather negative impression of the place and would probably choose to stay else where.

-----

Intheknow: The problem is that among your many good points, there are so many false hoods and so much here-say that everything becomes a little unbelievable and that's a shame..

No one cares what you hear from Tropicana waitresses and bus boys. I'm sure there are gossip-style web sites that would be grateful for this kind of info: but not here.

Perhaps putting it into context: "A waitress told me..." would at least take the edge off.

--

Intheknow

August 10th, 2008, 11:13 AM

A waitress told me that Chelsea Prime was excellent.

blackdragon905

August 10th, 2008, 04:53 PM

you can't really expect it to be great, i mean it really is only a 100 million dollar renovation of two old hotels, 100 million dollars is a lot but in terms of building a super luxury hotel, not really, i hope it does well though.

Fabrizio

August 10th, 2008, 07:22 PM

You can't screw around when your website promises this:

"This summer, the Chelsea ushers in a new era of Atlantic City chic, re-imagining the fabled heyday of “America's Playground” for the savvy modern traveler. The first non-gaming hotel to grace the Boardwalk since the 1960s, the Chelsea captures imaginations by conjuring the long-lost glamour and sophistication of this seaside resort town as a magical retreat where leisure and luxury come together in a perfect blend of great service, true comfort, and alluring spaces."

giselehaslice

August 10th, 2008, 08:02 PM

Well, what would you say if you wanted business?

"Crappy Interiors and Shoddy fixtures are a promise here. We will make sure you're stay is something that came out of a horror story. We really take pride in our bad staff."

I think NOT.

(not that I'm saying the Chelsea has any of these things, just trying to make a point.)

Intheknow

August 10th, 2008, 08:08 PM

I have had personel business dealings with Curtis and AC Gateway. They were very sloppy, amateurish, and arrogant. Suffice it to say our dealings went nowhere.

This doesn't mean he can't succeed at the Chelsea, but I wouldn't bet on it being successful.

Fabrizio

August 10th, 2008, 08:14 PM

Excellent giselehaslice, is that the best excuse you can come up with?

Let's offer pie-in-the-sky expectations, but we'll open when we're not quite ready... and well...hey....we'll see how it goes.

It doesn't work that way today. These are unforgiving times with lots of competition.

Perhaps it would have been better to delay the opening.

---

intheknow: peronal dealings of what nature?

---

giselehaslice

August 10th, 2008, 08:46 PM

Seriously Fabrizio? I can't make excuses for what the Chelsea may/may not be. It's funny, because you seem really flimsy about your view on this hotel. One day your like (not exact quotes) "Little Hotels like these start things like South Beach" and "Give the Dennis Hotel to Bashaw so he can develop it the right way" then the next your like "Not acceptable" and other random stuff. Maybe you should stick to one side.

Intheknow

August 10th, 2008, 08:54 PM

They wanted to buy a building I'm part owner of for their Casino.

As I stated in a previous post they are opening the Chelsea before it is complete which is never a good idea, it makes for bad first impressions for guests(construction going on) and it slows construction(guests in the way). But what do I know.

Fabrizio

August 10th, 2008, 09:04 PM

No giselehaslice, I will leave the "sticking to one side" to you.

The promise of the Chelsea is wonderful: the concept, the look etc.... all the right moves. And I still certainly agree with all that I said... about a hotel that was not yet open... and based on Bashaw's reputation established with his properties in CapeMay.

But now it's up to them to deliver with the Chelsea. As I said: Perhaps it would have been better to delay the opening.

Do you have a problem with that?

----

Congress Hall, Cape May

hotels.com: 4,5 rating. 98% recommended.

http://www.hotels.com/property.do?searchMtmPropertySupplierId=&propertyIdsToCompareString=&COMonth=-1&PSRC=null&TSRC=1&numrooms=1&searchType=&usertypedcity=Cape+May%2C+NJ&alternateSell=&allPropertyTypesSelected=true&COYear=2008&CODay=-1&paging=1&searchID=AC102644-5630-6911-BAE2-14342C904268&CIYear=2008&mtnHotelID=292074&destination=73B13047-85F3-423D-A65E-33AB7D44D095%7C28A25571-C4C3-4911-AF67-6E3B2E1E4485%7CCape+May%2C+NJ%2C+USA%7CCITY&roomOccupancyString=1%7C%7C2%7C0%7C0&CIDay=-1&sortBy=HCOMPICK&s=1&position=1&CIMonth=-1

--

giselehaslice

August 10th, 2008, 09:31 PM

Actually I do, it would'nt follow through with "the promise" .

Don't Forget it was a soft opening. If people who stayed there did'nt know the amenities were'nt complete yet, then obviously they would not be happy with there stay. Just to put it out there for everyone, if you want to make rude remarks about a place, you better have been there so you actually have a vaid point of reference.

Oh, and when people make an argument, they 99,9 % stick to one side, thats why it's an agument.

Fabrizio

August 10th, 2008, 09:36 PM

giselehaslice

August 10th, 2008, 09:57 PM

Geez, maybe this forum gives the world the false perception of the New York attitude. I'm just going to stick my nose up, walk away while inserting commas where decimal places usually go because I'm so cultured and European. And I'm going to talk about Florida alot. Toodles!

Oh, and maybe you call this a discussion, but most people would just call it whining.

Fabrizio

August 10th, 2008, 10:08 PM

Ciao! And dear, please be careful that those heels don't get stuck on the boardwalk!

giselehaslice

August 10th, 2008, 10:13 PM

Obrigada! Dawl I'm going to need all the luck I can get, seriously the condtion of these boardwalks these days.

Intheknow

August 10th, 2008, 10:14 PM

zipburn

August 10th, 2008, 10:45 PM

LOL. No bud, we all made remarks about the place before it opened and will continue to do so. Remarks based on renderings, photos, reviews etc. And we all await any forum member's personal experience in staying there.

If we all had to restrict our comments until we have "actually been there" then this entire forum would have to close down.

Actually...AGG has stayed there twice and I've been in there a few times. Based on reviews from AGG, he spoke pretty fondly of his experience and provided a boatload of pictures. I think the purpose of the soft opening was to be used to iron out the kinks and captialize on the sold out city. As far as the people waiting on the lobby, I guess Intheknow(as stated before) has never really been in a casino he just looks at the buildings from the outside. You should see the lines at Harrahs's since they added the new tower or Borgata when it first opened. The chelsea is a small place and the lobby is only soo big.

Intheknow

August 10th, 2008, 10:55 PM

It's O.K. to have long lines? 5 star hotel. Very lame excuse. You walk in, give your credit card, get a key, go to your room. If it takes more then 5 minutes to accomplish this you're doing something wrong.

How was you're stay? Please explain the grandeur. i.e. the cost vs. experience.

zipburn

August 10th, 2008, 10:59 PM

Oh Giesel. Not everything is peachy and dreamy, don't take things so personally.

Bashaws claim to fame is Congress Hall, he renovated it, that's all, I don't even think he used his own money..gov. grants etc....This is not vision, someone else had the vision, he just painted it. His other claim to fame was the head of the CRDA, which his lover McGreevy handed to him. The Facades on boardwalk are poor and way over cost, the money could have and should have been spent more wisely.

Do you still believe he and Barr are going to develop a Casino?

You don't pay for the facades so why you so worried about how much they cost? The guy is a little snooty but he tried to incorporate a plan in which Fabrizio and you have been bitching about forever. If you are part owner of a building they wanted to buy and your last name isn't Dougherty, you have no room to talk about how anything looks. There isn't one building in that area that is worthy of being saved besides the Knife & Fork. You have defended the Schiff's and their eyesores while saying the new facades are poor? I really don't get you degrade every improvement to the city while sticking up for the the people that keep the city looking like crap. Do you think there will be a day when you actually provide some information about the development of this city or can we only expect you to spout off half truths, wait staff rumors, and degrading comments about progress?

Intheknow

August 10th, 2008, 11:13 PM

zipburn

August 10th, 2008, 11:35 PM

I never defended the Schiffs, I said a fair offer is in the eye of the beholder. That money for facades is my money, I'm a taxpayer, it could have been spent on something better. By the way when will the facades be finished? When Revel is complete.

You obviously don't know much about historic buildings that are worthy of saving in that area.

Please explain to me what my half-truths and falsehoods are, I'll wait.

Here's a development story-it's dying. Wait five years, then I'll talk about new development in AC.

Well a falsehood is when you say something that isn't true. The facades are funded completely by the CRDA. The CRDA is completely funded by a tax on the Casinos. So you saying, "That money for facades is my money, I'm a taxpayer, it could have been spent on something better." You are a taxpayer but that money didn't come from you and it isn't your money. The facades are almost done, so saying they will be done when Revel is not true either. I don't buy into Fabrizios crap. If the building looks good and isn't in bad condition, save it; demolish all the rest. The only building in that area worth saving is the Knife and Fork.

Intheknow

August 11th, 2008, 12:25 AM

66nexus

August 11th, 2008, 12:50 AM

^You were speaking awhile ago about how the B'walk was filled with cheesy one-dollar stores and how much potential AC had, now to say that spending money on facades is a waste?

zipburn

August 11th, 2008, 03:07 AM

CRDA money is for programs for the elderly and improvements in the state of NJ. If the money is wasted on facades then my tax dollars must fund programs for the elderly and othe rimprovements to NJ.

I honestly think you are clueless. Don't accuse someone of something without solid proof. Now go book a room at the Chelsea but get there a day early so they can get your room ready.

I honestly think you have a mental handicap. Facts mean nothing to you do they? It's called the Casino Reinvestment Development Authority...

straight from their website:

Mission Statement
The Casino Reinvestment Development Authority shall provide capital investment funds for economic development projects that respond to the changing economic needs of Atlantic City and the State of New Jersey. It shall encourage business development and permanent job creation, promote opportunities for business expansion, and commit to facilitating a vibrant economic investment and employment environment for New Jersey.

Now before you start "accusing" me of being clueless why don't you provide solid facts, besides your normal retort that you "hear from people on the streets". I'm on the streets of Atlantic City almost every single day, I never heard from you. When they were building the Quarter there was this guy who used to stand on the corner of Iowa & Pacific and he thought he was directing the tower crane. Everytime you make a comment I think of that guy being one of your "people on the streets".

Intheknow

August 11th, 2008, 07:35 AM

That was me directing the crane.

Now we have beautiful dollar stores and massage parlors. Makes me want to buy a tee shirt.

American Gaming Guru

August 11th, 2008, 10:16 AM

Beach Theme Unveiled for $2B Resort
By Eric Peterson (http://www.globest.com/cgi-bin/udt/im.author.contact.view?client_id=globest&story_id=172978&title=Beach%20Theme%20Unveiled%20for%20%242B%20Res ort&author=Eric%20Peterson&address=http%3A//www.globest.com/news/1220%5F1220/newjersey/172978%2D1.html&summary=ATLANTIC%20CITY%2DHowever%2C%20Pinnacle%20 Entertainment%20officials%20are%20still%20hedging% 20on%20when%20they%20will%20start%20construction%2 0for%20the%20project.)
News Tip? (http://www.globest.com/cgi-bin/udt/im.author.contact.view?client_id=globest&story_id=172978) | http://www.globest.com/redesign/images/email_icon.gif (http://www.globest.com/cgi-bin/udt/im.send.story.prompt?client_id=globest&story_id=172978) Email (http://www.globest.com/cgi-bin/udt/im.send.story.prompt?client_id=globest&story_id=172978) | http://www.globest.com/redesign/images/printer_icon.gif (http://www.globest.com/news/1220_1220/newjersey/172978-1.html?type=pf) Print (http://www.globest.com/news/1220_1220/newjersey/172978-1.html?type=pf) | http://www.globest.com/redesign/images/reprints_icon.gif (http://remreprints.com/) Reprints (http://remreprints.com/)

http://www.globest.com/newspics/nej_daniellee.jpg
Lee
ATLANTIC CITY-Pinnacle Entertainment officials still aren't sure when they will actually start construction for their proposed $2-billion hotel/casino project here, but they've at least rolled out general plans for the resort's theme. The theme will apparently be "the beach," company officials told gaming analysts during a conference call.
While a construction date hasn't been set yet, analysts were given the news that more detailed plans are in the works, with designs currently being "tweaked," according to Dan Lee, chairman of the Las Vegas-based Pinnacle. The sticking point right now, according to Lee, is the global credit mess.
"As a practical matter, in these current markets, we can't finance this thing today," Lee told analysts. "I don't think anyone can, if they're trying to build a big project. We're in a bit of a holding pattern while we spend small amounts of money on legal fees and things like that as we move forward toward a project we can build when the capital markets recover."
Much of the boardwalk site for the proposed resort was once occupied by the Sands Hotel/Casino, which Pinnacle bought from affiliates of Carl Icahn for a reported $270 million in 2006. The 600-room Sands was closed down for good a year later, and imploded this past October. Initial plans called for the start of construction this year, with completion by late 2011. But in February, Pinnacle announced it was putting the project on hold, (http://www.globest.com/news/1103_1103/newjersey/168632-1.html)citing the credit markets. Construction now is unlikely to start before 2010, Lee told analysts. To date, the former Sands site has been prepped for construction, as have 18 adjoining acres acquired from the Icahn affiliates as part of that transaction. Pinnacle has also been assembling adjoining parcels, spending another $75 million to date for that purpose, and currently controls nearly 25 acres. Agreements are said to be close for additional parcels along the boardwalk and the adjoining Pacific Ave. "You never really get the full footprint you want," Lee told analysts. "You just have to work around things."

American Gaming Guru

August 11th, 2008, 10:59 AM

All, to set the record straight (from my perspective anyway). Here are some pros and cons about The Chelsea's first 2 weeks of operation (I was not there this past week):

Pro: The Place looks unbelievable. The developer did a wonderful job on the rooms and common area amenities (Pool, Restaurants, Bars, Beach etc.)

Con: They DID open the place too early. There were little amenities available and no food and beverage facilities available the 1st weekend of August for when they began taking reservations.

Pro: The developer and operator (Cape Advisors/Cape May Resorts aka Curtis Bashaw and partners), did the right thing by providing free breakfast and lunch and lavish cocktail parties each night for the guests of the hotel. These venues have subsequently opened (in the Luxe tower anyway).

Con: Staffing DID seem confused and ill-trained for a "grand opening" or "ribbon cutting" what ever they wanted to call it. During both of my stays, reservations were mixed up, I was over-charged (they had me in 2 rooms), the pool attendants seemed confused with cabana reservations, some guests were given very nicely done brochures highlighting the meal and cocktail party details, some were not (including me). It would have been nice to receive at check-in or at least get a verbal update from the women at the check-in counter.

Pro: There was no wait to check in. Upon check out, they had no problem with holding my bags as I spent the remainder of the day at the pool. While perhaps the hotel staff was not prepared, they were courteous and clearly trying hard to provide a pleasurable experience for the guests.

Con: The Lite tower is not yet open including Tiplitzky's and Sea Spa. They are still very much under heavy construction.

Pro/Reasoning: I know the developer encountered some unforeseen construction issues (in the Lite tower) which is common in significant rehab projects. Their original construction schedule was very aggressive, but I don't blame them for opening in phases to catch as much summer business as possible.

Well, thats about it. I hope I provided a good unbiased (well I guess I am a bit biased since I really like and welcome the place) view of how the 1st 2 weeks were at The Chelsea.

And yes, Intheknow, some of your info has been verified by me who experienced the hotel personally on two different occasions; however, I don't think it's right to go after the developer (what seems to be perhaps personal for a failed real estate deal?). At least this is not the place to do so in this forum.

I personally believe that Mr. Bashaw is a visionary and has guts for taking a major bet on AC's future. His enthusiasm radiates for its future and he has proven to be a excellent booster to enliven once decrepit areas of the city in a classy and exciting form.

We should wish him luck and spread the word (since you seem to talk to so many people) that hey, the place looks great, they are trying like hell to make a run of it and helping to re-shape this city for the better.

What more could we ask for?

Fabrizio

August 11th, 2008, 12:28 PM

You're a bit whiney but...

(seriously), thanks again for an interesting, well rounded look at the Chelsea.

I'm sure they had good reason to open in phases, but there is a risk as word of mouth and on-line reviews come in. TripAdvisor and hotel.com are not to be taken lightly. Even here in Italy, hotels take these web sites and their client comments very seriously. They are the first thing travelers consult.

If you are opening in a desirable location like NY's Lower East Side, a place that does not have many hotel offerings, the public will put up with heavy construction and so forth.... but I think the traveler to AC will be less forgiving. It's not like there's some great neighborhood at your doorstep, waiting to be explored.

The Chelsea's marketers will have to go into damage control, but 6 months from now, this rough spot will most likely be a memory.

In the meantime, I think the best strategy for selling this place to the public, is for Bashaw's PR dept. to tone down the talk of high end -luxury and point up the boutique/slightly funky vibe of the place. This place is going to have to find it's niche. It's not the Borgata.

Furthermore: for any intelligent, well travel crowed, over enthusiastic cheerleading for this development, will simply backfire. It creates just as much harm as the knee-jerk nay-sayers.... if not more.

----------------------
Note to Gisel:

Perhaps it would have been better to delay the opening.

And in the meantime AGG writes:

They DID open the place too early.

So what on earth is your problem?

------------------------

Note to Zipburn:

I don't buy into Fabrizios crap.

Uh... I beg your pardon? What exactly are you refering too?

---

American Gaming Guru

August 11th, 2008, 01:09 PM

I'm whiney?

Just trying to show two sides of a story....but acknowledging I am a bit biased. Whats wrong with that?

Fabrizio

August 11th, 2008, 01:12 PM

LOL. Oh AGG!... you've been away... go back and read the last few pages... you'll see.

acplayer

August 11th, 2008, 02:37 PM

I have to say I generally agree with IntheKnow and Fabrizio. A.C. is way under-utilized and mis-managed by both the inept politicians as well as many of the casinos. I can't wait to see Pinnacles rendering. Maybe something similar to Fabrizios Disney pics...just go back to what worked before and update it.

Old Virginia Ave.....
http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh72/acplayerr/acstreetscene1895.jpg

Fabrizio

August 11th, 2008, 05:04 PM

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v33/ronaldo/acstreetscene1895.jpg

Disney's Boardwalk development at right.

---

As Zipburn mentioned, new development along Maine Ave does have a small dose of this "sea-shore" style... but you would need sweeping zoning and design laws for an entire neighborhood. If such a thing were done, skillfully including shopping streets, it would be an enourmous success. If you want to develop something like a so.Beach neighborhood in AC... that would be the way to do it.

---

Intheknow

August 11th, 2008, 10:24 PM

Bashaw and myself did not have a failed business deal, he failed. I don't take or make it personal, it's business.

I stated weeks ago that it is a mistake to open early. It almost always is in these situations. It's common sense, to me anyway.

It took me a blink of an eye to see that AC Gateway were posers when they said they were going to develop a Casino, they will not develop a Casino, even if the credit markets were great-trust me.

Last week the Chelsea fired the Assistant GM and the next day the GM quit, this is not a good sign. I agree they needed to capture some of the summer business (it's probably 85% of yearly revenue) but the costs are high when trying to be the best.

Atlantic City will not improve until the current government is indicted, this will happen, to most of the jokers anyway. I don't know what the feds and State are waiting for, more evidence? The best the current City Council should do is to do nothing! What ever they touch turns to rust.

Casino wins were down 6.6% in July compared to last July. Maybe we should diversify?

Why can't AC look like the pic. above? Why can't we have the nicest Boardwalk in the world? Beach? City? Casinos? Why, why, why???

giselehaslice

August 11th, 2008, 11:59 PM

haah Fabrizio, you are sooooo funny I JUST PEED MY PANTIES!

I actually agree with the Chelsea being opened to early. My previous post was meant to be a load of crap answer you would make, and I emphasized "the promise" part, because you earlier quoted that. It sounds like something out of the movie The Notebook. Most people can usually detect sarcasm.

Beijos <3

Fabrizio

August 12th, 2008, 07:49 AM

( Att. Fellow forum members: he lives in South New Jersey ... so please excuse him and try to understand. )

Intheknow

August 12th, 2008, 08:47 AM

Gisel, you sure do change your tune readily.

You may disagree with my opinions but at least they will never change. I maybe wrong at times but I'll be man enough to admit it.

It is going to take something drastic (vision) to turn AC around, I have my doubts this will occur.

There is an excellent letter in the AC press today @ACpress.com under opinions -voice of the people, comparing Wildwood and AC. Before you start berating me, I know they are two different worlds.

The Hilton is in deep trouble- revenues down 20% from a year ago. Maybe if they cleaned there carpets.....

Fabrizio

August 12th, 2008, 09:17 AM

Certainly the poor economy is being felt everywhere, but This is why AC must develop an attractive, viable city... not just depend on casinos:

Atlantic City casino revenue falls 6.6 percent in July

By DONALD WITTKOWSKI
Published: Tuesday, August 12, 2008
Press of Atlantic City

Excerpts:

ATLANTIC CITY - It won't be a blockbuster summer. It won't be even a ho-hum summer. Barring a miraculous turnaround in August, it's going to be one stinker of a summer for the casinos.

The gaming industry's summer slump continued in July, with revenue falling sharply in what is usually the most important month on the casino calendar.

July's decline followed an 11 percent revenue drop in June, suggesting a weak summer is all but certain, even if trends reverse in August. It also appears 2008 will mirror 2007 as another year of declining revenue overall.

An even more dramatic comparison is this July versus July 2005, when casinos raked in an all-time record of $504.8 million in revenue. The 2005 figure is 15 percent higher than this July.

-----

"Voice of the People" Press of Atlantic City

Excerpts:

Atlantic City could take a lesson from Wildwood
- BRIAN O'NEILL Ventnor

"On a recent Sunday, my wife and I took a day trip to Wildwood to celebrate our first anniversary and enjoy some nice weather.

Upon arriving, the first feeling was security. Police were posted on every other street, whether on foot patrol or bike, and the motorized patrol used modified golf carts on the Boardwalk. Do we really need a 3,000-pound gas-guzzling vehicle that can go to 145 mph on our Atlantic City Boardwalk?

During our stay, we were never bothered by beggers or vagrants. Most of the motels one block from the Boardwalk had beautiful pools.

American Gaming Guru

August 12th, 2008, 10:28 AM

Intheknow. Funny you should say that about The Hilton. I have always held that small hotel in high regard. After all these years, the place still shines and has a nice comfort to it. But I must say. I was in there about two weeks ago, and the carpets looked a mess!

I know Resorts International had a management shake-up a few months back. The President and his team left the company to pursue there own venture in another state. Hopefully they will get back on their feet. Resorts International aka Colony Capital has deep pockets.

In regards to The Chelsea, I too heard from a reliable source that the GM quit about a week or two ago. Again, I hope it works out for them.

AC11

August 12th, 2008, 11:11 AM

Here are some pics of Revel.
http://11floor.com/ACphotos/IMG_0167.jpg
http://11floor.com/ACphotos/IMG_0169.jpg
http://11floor.com/ACphotos/IMG_0174.jpg

The ugliest building on the best piece of property in the city.
http://11floor.com/ACphotos/IMG_0170.jpg
http://11floor.com/ACphotos/IMG_0171.jpg
http://11floor.com/ACphotos/IMG_0172.jpg

Another part of the Boardwalk in bad shape. This is at the end of Pacific Ave.
http://11floor.com/ACphotos/IMG_0173.jpg

giselehaslice

August 12th, 2008, 12:02 PM

Wow Fabrizio. You live in Tuscany? Thats just amazing. Looks alot better in pictures than in real life. Cool how you post on here after 10pm New York time and Italy is at least 5 hours ahead. I find it a bit strange, creepy actually, that you pinpointed my location when it was never anywhere on my profile. I do in fact live in Southern New Jersey, but don't forget a few years ago (I think it was '05 or '06) that the best town in The USA was in Southern New Jersey. I might just live there.

For the record, I have agreed with the Chelsea opening too early from the start. I was, again, just trying to cope with Fabrizio's annoyingness by posting some random post saying why it would'nt work because the hotel promised to open on a certain date. (something Fabrizio have would undoubtably said)

Fabrizio

August 12th, 2008, 12:21 PM

Will you please show us where you said you, "have agreed with the Chelsea opening too early from the start." Thanks. We're looking forward to seeing the post.

As for posting hours: would you let us know the correct posting hours for the forum? We'd appreciate it.

And yeah... it is kinda strange... creepy... actually a little spooky that I could somehow tell you live in So. Jersey.

( Gisel, as someone else here once told you: stop while you are behind.)

giselehaslice

August 12th, 2008, 12:25 PM

For the first and last time its GISELE, not giesel or gisel or whatever you want to say. Its just starting to bother me.

It's also spooky that one can tell your a really insecure person. Picking on something you supposedly live 4,000 miles away from. Sheesh.

I understand your frusturation, as AC is no Leblon, but it does'nt seem you have any constructive cristism, it just really seems all negative "well they should have done this another way", rather than "I liked this....but some things need to be tweaked."

There are not any correct posting hours on this thread, but I just find it interesting that your serial posting when it's past 3am in Tuscany.

I appologize for what may seem like a blurry mess on my part of my opinion of the Chelsea's opening. I am now saying that I do beleive that they could have probably waited a few more weeks so they had all amenities up and running.

Intheknow

August 12th, 2008, 12:59 PM

STT757

August 12th, 2008, 01:27 PM

At least Harrah's did well, also Borgata.

Harrah's escapes A.C. casinos' loss
Tuesday, August 12, 2008
JUDY DeHAVEN
Star-Ledger Staff
Atlantic City's casinos continued their losing streak, reporting a 6.6 percent revenue decline in July.

But one gambling parlor bucked the trend: Harrah's reported a 19.7 percent increase.

The casino, in A.C.'s Marina District, was helped by additional table games, which gave it a whopping 86.1 percent boost in table revenue, as well as a new water-themed hotel expansion and a pool that have garnered a reputation for the nighttime party atmosphere.

For the first seven months of the year, Harrah's is the only casino to report an increase in gambling revenue -- up 5.3 percent. For the resort as a whole, casino revenue has fallen 6.1 percent since the start of the year.

The only other bright spot in July was Borgata, where revenue increased 1.9 percent. Ironically, Borgata also opened a water-themed hotel tower and pool expansion in June called the Water Club. Harrah's Waterfront Tower and pool had a bit of a head start because it opted to open its hotel in phases starting in March, while Borgata opened its expansion all at once.

"I don't expect the Water Club to pay off immediately for Borgata," said Bill LaPenta, director of financial analysis for the casino consulting firm, Spectrum Gaming Group. "It takes at least two or three months for a new room tower to start to really yielding dividends or results."

The increases -- especially Harrah's -- provided a tiny bit of good news for a city that has been battered by intense competition for gamblers, an ailing economy and high gas prices that have kept tourists home. Other casino markets around the country, including Las Vegas, have suffered similar fates.

The summer months of July and August are supposed to be good times for A.C. And casino executives had hoped for a strong showing before a full smoking ban takes effect in October.

Instead, revenue fell at nine casinos last month. At five -- Hilton, Resorts, Showboat, Trump Marina and Trump Taj Mahal -- the decline was in the double digits.

In all, the casinos won $438.7 million from gamblers last month, according to the N.J. Casino Control Commission. Slot machine revenue fell 7.2 percent, while table game revenue declined 5.1 percent.

AC11

August 12th, 2008, 02:16 PM

For all the negative people here, just happened to check trip advisor about AC and this was the first review listed.

Stayed at the Chelsea on Saturday night. Was thoroughly impressed by all the attention to detail this hotel was given. Lots of spaces to relax and enjoy.

The pool area was great - cocktails were stellar, ambiance very rejuventating -- a feel that you just don't find elsewhere in AC.

Ate at the just-opened Chelsea Prime Saturday night. Have to say I was very impressed. Porterhouse was cooked just right, sides were great (tater tots!), cocktails also very good (try the blood and sand).

Rooms have very cozy beds, cool TV (but the remote is a little weird to operate; the buttons the tv tells you to press are missing.), warm comfortable shower, pretty views.

This is the only place in AC that I've seen that doesn't try to be Vegas -- instead it's a classy, relaxing environment that I'm sure will attract a lot more of people like me - young Manhattanites who are looking for a weekend away. Having the casinos nearby but not always in your face made this trip so much more rejuvenating and enjoyable than previous trips to AC.

Highly recommend!

giselehaslice

August 12th, 2008, 04:29 PM

Gesil, the rules of this forum include using proper grammer. Would'nt is incorrect, as is should'nt-very annoying. Please refer to your third grade reader. You write like a City Councilmen. Don't take it personally.

Alright, I'm sorry that I speak two other languages other than English. I get them mixed up especially becuase English is'nt my first. I won't take it personally, but I will refer you to your 3rd grade teacher and tell them you need some help with learning how to read, because you obviously couldnt read the post I wrote earlier regarding the spelling of my name.

66nexus

August 12th, 2008, 05:36 PM

It took me a blink of an eye to see that AC Gateway were posers when they said they were going to develop a Casino, they will not develop a Casino, even if the credit markets were great-trust me.

Atlantic City will not improve until the current government is indicted, this will happen, to most of the jokers anyway. I don't know what the feds and State are waiting for, more evidence? The best the current City Council should do is to do nothing! What ever they touch turns to rust.

Casino wins were down 6.6% in July compared to last July. Maybe we should diversify?

Why can't AC look like the pic. above? Why can't we have the nicest Boardwalk in the world? Beach? City? Casinos? Why, why, why???

"With the high oil prices, people don't have much disposable income to spend on gaming and entertainment. So we are looking at a short-term slump, certainly. In the longer term, everything depends on what's going to happen to oil prices."

"But the biggest threat of all is that Las Vegas might somehow be perceived to have lost its buzz. Like any tourist economy, the city's fortunes depend squarely on being seen as a "hot" destination, a tag that becomes difficult to justify if potential visitors hear reports that the place is struggling."

"Other sectors of Las Vegas aren't looking too healthy, either. Attendance at conventions, which account for roughly a quarter of the city's income, dropped by 7 per cent this year"

<All taken from the article>

The thing I don't understand is why people hate to admit that AC is doing relatively well given the circumstances. (why does no one try to see the national crisis as if AC is somehow exempt?)

-NOW, I am absolutely positive there are some who will instantly go to Flickr and post a desolate bombed out AC street and ask 'why is it this way?' I'm telling you right now that I'm simply going to do the same thing with another random city simply to prove that AC's problems are not as unique as some love suggesting.

Why the defeatist attitude? 'Why can't we have the greatest boardwalk?' Can't? Because AC doesn't have it now does not mean it can never again. 'Why can't it be the greatest city?' Are you wishing upon a star?

Casinos are not going to alone undo the decades upon decades of problems that plague the city. Getting rid of the gov. may be a good step, but it will take so much more than that.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/down-and-out-in-las-vegas-860513.html

Intheknow

August 12th, 2008, 06:53 PM

I don't have a defeatest attitude. I think AC is in alot better shape than most U.S. cities, thanks to the casinos and tourists. I am sick of the Vegas comparisions, forget about what Vegas is doing.

Next week we are having the Air show, hundreds of thousands of people on the beach. Do you think we should rake the whole beach to make it presentable to our guests? Maybe leave a good impression? Hey, maybe they'll come back? Maybe someone will say "wow, this is a nice beach". It's little things like this that make a huge difference, the Casinos should demand the City do something about the beach and boardwalk. We have as much, if not more, money than Disney, if they can do it why DON'T we?

NYatKNIGHT

August 12th, 2008, 07:57 PM

It's hard to argue with that. Why isn't A.C. doing everything it can? It's a fair question, people. Nobody's saying "the place sucks so don't go there". I find it a little strange that some who are complaining of a defeatist and negative attitude here and who claim to love A.C. aren't in complete agreement with those who want to make it an attractive and viable city. There is still vast room for improvement no matter if you think they're on the right track in A.C. or not.

Fabrizio

August 12th, 2008, 08:22 PM

The positive attitute at-any-cost vibe from some here is just weird. They sound like politicians. I really think it's that kind of attitute that will continue to keep AtlanticCity looking like a dump for many more years to come.

About the article from Britian's Independent:

Remember that Vegas is currently building the $9.2 billion CityCenter development AND the huge Union Park development. In other words, Vegas continues to look to the future by building a city and not just depending on the lure of casinos.

The AC casino statistics would actually be much, much worse than they already are if you eliminated Harrahs and the Borgata... two properties that are located at the Marina and not located in the city proper. People can go to those casinos with out setting foot in AC. Certainly their newness is mostly the draw... but that fact that you can visit them and avoid Atlantic City probably works in their favour.

---

AC11: note that the positive reviews of the Chelsea on Tripadvisor were noted in an earlier thread. At that time there were ony two... good to see that more good reviews are coming in.

------

-NOW, I am absolutely positive there are some who will instantly go to Flickr and post a desolate bombed out AC street and ask 'why is it this way?' I'm telling you right now that I'm simply going to do the same thing with another random city simply to prove that AC's problems are not as unique as some love suggesting.

Don't bother.

AC isn't Cleveland or Pittsburg or where ever. It's a resort. A place you go to, to feel good, to have a pleasant time. People will not excuse a shabby Boardwalk. No one paying 300 dollars a night will take a stroll on the Boardwalk and think to themselves: "Just because AC doesn't have a nice boardwalk now, does not mean it can never again". Nexus, it doesn't work that way.

A small city with 30 years of casino gambling revenues should not be in that shape. Period.

---

Intheknow

August 12th, 2008, 10:08 PM

My "perspective" comes from living here. I walk and bike the streets and boardwalk, I shop here, I enjoy the many restaraunts and night clubs, I must deal with the local gov.; police, public works, code enforcement, city council, I socialize here. Every night is not a weekend getaway,I do not gamble. If you feel I am negative or pessimistic, so be it.

It amazes me that so many peolpe get excited about a new casino being built (maybe). The new buildings in Dubai are exciting, cool glass on the side of the new water club is not. The money that is being wasted here is staggering. $100,000,000 for new facades, think about that, it's real money. It could be better spent.

Intheknow

August 12th, 2008, 10:51 PM

It is so quite here tonight, you can hear the Baseball announcer for the Surf at Bader Field on the boardwalk, actually I prefer it like this.

zipburn

August 13th, 2008, 01:20 AM

It amazes me that so many peolpe get excited about a new casino being built (maybe). The new buildings in Dubai are exciting, cool glass on the side of the new water club is not. The money that is being wasted here is staggering. $100,000,000 for new facades, think about that, it's real money. It could be better spent.

Are you serious? How should the CRDA spend the money next time? I don't know what time period you are thinking of but currently $100 million isn't that much money. Especially disbursed over the entire boardwalk.

So, lets get this straight

1. You want the boardwalk to be the best in the world, but you don't think the CRDA should spend the money to fix up the store fronts.
2. You think The Chelsea should have never been created, the Howard Johnson and Holiday Inn should have stayed as is because The Chelsea wasn't a national story.
3. You believe that in some distorted way that you pay taxes into the CRDA(which comes from a 1.25% tax on casinos) and using that money on Atlantic City development is a bad thing because it will increase your taxes.(hint: the money for the CRDA and the money that goes into the CRF are two different things)
4. Pinnacle and AC Gateway are going to flip the land that they now own and never build. Even though it is a known fact that the credit markets aren't in the shape for it to be feasible right now.
5. AC Gateway shouldn't move the monument and knife and fork because the traffic situation in Atlantic City isn't of concern to anybody, especially the tourists. The park that it will go through will be adversly effected and the .025 average daily park attendees will become disenchanted with the city.
6. Revel will never complete its project and the Water Club and its 43 storys with "cool glass" that add to the upscale market are nothing to get excited about.

I could go on but I think you can get the point...

Intheknow

August 13th, 2008, 07:10 AM

Zip, You are missing my point and misinterpreting my views. Please go on and on, for one I never said Pinnacle was going to flip the land, AC Gateway, yes. Bashaw was head of CRDA, this is a little more then shady that he wants to now develop land he should have been trying to get other developers to build on while he was head of CRDA.

Traffic is not bad in the City, the problem lies before the park, which is utilized by many, they want to move Monument and destroy Park so Bashaw has enough land to build Casino, not because of traffic. Google Earth on AC and show me any public green land besides Bader field and O'Donnell Park. Tourists don't say they are not coming to AC because of traffic problems.

We need new stores not new facades, right now they are giving pigs a bath, they are still pigs. I don't think it's a bad idea, I think it could have been better spent. A hundred million is too much for the new facades.

Intheknow

August 13th, 2008, 08:20 AM

Point #2, I never said Chelsea should never have been created. Please provide proof.

Check out CRDA website, besides their BS mission statement.

As always I stand by everything I say, time will tell if I am telling the truth.

I don't get your point, don't assume I have any inkling of comprehending what you state here.

American Gaming Guru

August 13th, 2008, 10:36 AM

This seems like an oxymoron to me. (1st) the city council finally does something right by helping along a critical development while the credit markets are closed and then (2) the union that should want jobs created is now fighting the very same development that would create them (union or not).

I am not anti union at all, but Local 54 seems to be overstepping their duties to their union here. As in the Trop case, they are sadly digging their own grave and not helping shape a prosperous future for AC.

This is NJ politics at it s best and it stinks. Unless I am mistaken. Thoughts?

Local 54 pushing petition that seeks vote on Revel bond financing

By MICHAEL CLARK Staff Writer, 609-272-7204

Published: Wednesday, August 13, 2008

ATLANTIC CITY - Residents accusing the city of bending over backward for a casino developer could have the final word at the ballot box this fall.

A local union's petition against the developer's newly acquired municipal bond financing is circulating throughout the city, providing a new forum for disapproving residents and prompting outrage from at least one state assemblyman.
Last week, City Council approved the $56 million bond ordinance to help fund road improvements around the Revel Entertainment's
$2 billion casino project. The approval allows Revel to begin negotiating the bond's financial terms with the city, which will act as a vehicle to deliver lower interest rates to Revel from private bond holders.
But local casino union leader Bob McDevitt dispatched his members soon after the final vote to begin gathering signatures and force a city-wide vote in November.
McDevitt, of UNITE-HERE's Local 54, argues that the local government's confusion with the complicated bill and the size of the deal is enough to put it to a vote.

"It's undeniable that council had no idea what they were voting on," he said Tuesday. "I don't know any town that would tolerate that kind of government."

The union's effort caught the attention of Assemblyman Vince Polistina, R-Atlantic, who discussed the plan with Revel attorneys last week and criticized McDevitt for trying to deliberately obstruct Revel's progress.
Polistina accused Local 54 of using the petition as leverage in discussions about a labor agreement between the union and Revel executives.
"It certainly appears that Local 54 is playing politics and trying to make things difficult for Revel," he said.
McDevitt denied the claim, insisting the petition "stands on its own." However, McDevitt did not refute the difficulties the union is having in discussions with Revel.
Local 54, the city's largest casino union representing service workers, is seeking a neutrality agreement with Revel - essentially a pledge from the casino not to obstruct its workers from unionizing. According to McDevitt, there have been no negotiations, only discussions that have gone nowhere.
"So far, they've shown little interest in being a union property," said McDevitt, who said he expected to have the agreement by now.
McDevitt did not deny rumors that the union is also asking Revel to agree to lock outside businesses leasing property at Revel into a deal that would staff their businesses with union workers. Such an agreement could be harmful to the developer by narrowing a pool of potential restaurants and boutiques the casino would likely attract.
However, McDevitt said only, "We don't have any agreement with Revel right now."
Revel CEO Kevin DeSanctis declined comment on talks with the union through a company representative.
McDevitt says the union must garner 2,000 signatures within 20 days after the ordinance's approval to push the issue onto a ballot.
McDevitt would not specify how many residents signed the petition thus far, but said the initiative is meeting little resistance from residents.
A sampling of residents spoke out with frustration and confusion at a recent public hearing for the ordinance, questioning why the process is moving so fast and what the residents will get in return for the city's help.
McDevitt is asking the same questions and claims he is getting no answers.
"This is a town that has debated one-way traffic (on Atlantic and Pacific avenues) for 100 years," McDevitt said recently. "But this thing gets thrown to council at the last minute and is pushed through. What's the rush?"
But Polistina insists the urgency is necessary to meet the projected opening date, slated for 2010, and fence the wide-reaching effects of an economic slump.
"We need to keep people working," he said. "The economy is so shaky right now, we need to be proactive. I think this is just totally backward."
McDevitt responded: "I'm a resident (here), Vince isn't. Vince doesn't hold the bag if this falls through. I do."
Revel attorneys, however, have repeatedly stressed that residents have nothing to lose if the deal falls through because the actual financing is coming from private bond holders, not the city.
"Well, I would like to hear all this from someone who isn't being paid by Revel," McDevitt said.
But the union president would not commit to dropping the petition if an outside attorney weighs in.

E-mail Michael Clark: Michael.Clark@pressofac.com (Michael.Clark@pressofac.com)

Fabrizio

August 13th, 2008, 10:43 AM

Re: The new facades: Whether they cost too much or not is up for discussion, but those new facades are one of the most intelligent moves AC has done in an effort to upgrade the place. Even if they still house t-shirt shops and the like.

You've got to start somewhere... you've got to break the ice... how else will the B'walk attract nice shops if the over-all impression is dumpy? At least these facades present a new fresh image.

Where they fail, is that the architectural style, while not bad, is a little too generic and cartoonish (although much better than The Walk).

AC had it's own architectural style. Flip through this interesting site that ACplayer posted a while back and you'll see the vocabulary of AC architecture on which to draw from:

http://barryrich.net/acnj/oldhouses/houses.html

Drawing from AC's rich architectural past as inspiration for the new is how to create a distinct Atlantic City brand.

CapeMay has done it by preserving it's Victorian past, Wildwood is doing by preserving it's 1950's architecture and incouraging new architecture to adhere to the style. Miami's So.Beach has done the same with Art-Deco.

AC has little left to preserve (and it should be building soaring modern glass towers)... but areas that recall AC's gracious hey-day should also be part of the plan.

Unfortunately the yokels in AC seem to have little asthetic vision... but those new B'walk facades are a bright spot.

--

Intheknow

August 13th, 2008, 08:53 PM

Some of you may want to check out-www.atlanticcitytripping.com/cityboom/post.php?p=7

Concerns Barr/Bashaw project.

Intheknow

August 13th, 2008, 10:08 PM

From my perspective, August will be the worst month ever for Casinos. This comes from riding down the Boardwalk and observing the crowds or lack thereof.

zipburn

August 13th, 2008, 11:19 PM

Come on Down

As Philadelphia-area patrons continue rolling into town, casino companies are adding new offerings to make Atlantic City an appealing resort destination http://www.atlanticcityweekly.com/images/shim.gif by Bill Gelman (bgelman@southphillyreview.com)

http://www.atlanticcityweekly.com/images/shim.gif

South Philadelphia resident Joe Parella is watching Atlantic City transform right before his very eyes. He has been visiting this resort town for a half century. During those early years, fishing, crabbing and seeing legendary performers Frank Sinatra, Dean Martin and Jack Jones perform live are highlights he will never forget.
“[Club Harlem] had top name acts with a $9 cover and two-drink minimum,” Parella recalls. “They always had decent live bands.”
Today, Parella and his wife are still regulars in town, maintaining a residence just blocks away from the famous Boardwalk. Those clubs he frequented are now a thing of the past, but the couple remains faithful to their home away from home. They enjoy dining at Borgata’s Ombra and catching an occasional lounge act at the Hilton’s Dizzy Dolphin.
But A.C. is taking the steps to becoming a resort destination. The shopping, dining, boutique-hotel experience and other entertainment amenities are all part of A.C.’s new image.
Borgata made a bold statement in late June at the ribbon-cutting ceremony of its new Water Club, the resort’s new hotel experience, featuring a special touch on personal service, with 800 employees to match the 800 rooms. It’s just the latest phase in the joint venture between Boyd Gaming and MGM-Mirage, who have now spent $1.7 billion on the Borgata development. Ask any casino executive in town, including Larry Mullin, president and COO of Borgata, and they stress the importance of the Philadelphia market.
“It’s our largest market; it’s very important,” Mullin says. “We place a premium on Philadelphia, New York and the Washington D.C. area as being our three primary areas. With Philadelphia being the closest, obviously it’s very important. And I grew up there so I know that area very well and it’s a very good market.”
Joan Baranek, a Bucks County, Pa., resident, said after the Borgata opened in 2003 she found herself wanting to come back more.
“[The Borgata] changed Atlantic City,” Baranek says. “It spiffed things up and made it a little more exciting.”
She also likes visiting Harrah’s Entertainment properties because of their Total Rewards system, which rates casino play. On this particular summer night, Baranek passed up the gambling to sample tasty bites at the “Splash” poolside dine around, one of several events held in June as part of Harrah’s Entertainment’s Food and Wine Spectacular Toast to the Coast.
With the gaming industry expanding into Pennsylvania, including the Philadelphia suburbs, having a casino floor filled with table games and slot machines are no longer enough to attract those faithful visitors.
Over the last several years, Harrah’s Entertainment has made sure to include non-gaming amenities in their expansion plans. The Pier Shops at Caesars features two floors of shopping and another dedicated to dining and entertainment. The Pool at Harrah’s doubles as a nightclub and swim-up movie theater for the summer season. The Showboat offers the first and only House of Blues venue in the Northeast. Besides bringing in top-name entertainment acts, the facility includes the Foundation Room, an exclusive club that is a hot spot for celebrities rolling through town.
Call it Atlantic City’s way of answering the Philadelphia challenge.
Jennifer Weissman, eastern regional V.P. of marketing for Harrah’s Entertainment, says the competition from their feeder markets has created new development opportunities for the city.
“It has really provided a great opportunity to think about what the long-term growth potential is for this market and the possibility of A.C. as a destination nationally,” Weissman says. “For years, A.C. has been a very single-destination market that was all about casino facilities and hotel rooms.
“Now we have the opportunity to speak to a larger audience with more entertainment venues that are unique and distinct.”
Mullin sees the competition from neighboring towns being a miniature version of what is offered in Atlantic City.
“I refer to what is happening in Philadelphia with their introduction into gaming as almost the Wawa or 7-Eleven affect,” he says. “You’ve got a convenience store or convenience gambling within 20 minutes of most of those customers. We want to offer the full shopping experience where you get a great overnight stay, a great spa experience, some terrific retail and the best nightlife and live entertainment that you can find anywhere in the country.”
On July 4, the Atlantic City Hilton drew more than 50,000 spectators for a free Beach Boys concert, which far exceeded the 5,000 to 10,000 that property executives had expected. The Tropicana Casino & Resort offers visitors the unique option of strolling through the streets of Old Havana as The Quarter provides shopping, dining, entertainment, as well as the IMAX Theater, currently showing The Dark Knight. The Trump Taj Mahal is slated to open the Chairmen Tower soon and is bringing the well-known New York City restaurant Il Mulino to town. The list keeps growing with over $10 million in capital investments planned within the next five years.
Earlier this month, the new, non-gaming Chelsea hotel opened, offering more rooms for the city as well as a resort-style feel.
Jeffrey Vasser, executive director of the Atlantic City Convention & Visitors Authority, says his aim has been to create “more of a demand for Atlantic City in both the tourism and convention sectors.
“We are now a full, well-rounded destination that continues to grow and change,” Vasser says. “We offer something new and exciting on a regular basis. We’re a one-tank destination for a large part of the country’s population, and there’s plenty to do here whether or not you enjoy gambling.”
With proposed mega-resorts planned from MGM Mirage, Revel Entertainment and others, the deck will be stacked in A.C.’s favor. Weissman says properties that stay status-quo will make it difficult to continue satisfying the Philadelphia faithful.
“I think the facilities that have a multiple dimension focus are the ones that are going to be successful,” Weissman says. “The more options you have for people the better off you are going to fare.”
Mullin sees adding room inventory as an important component of this town’s growth: “I believe that the rooms are the real key, and the quality of those rooms and the non-gaming is what is going to make people visit this great resort area.”

So I don't have to make another post, expect Trump Marinas revenue to keep on dropping as could be expected because of their pending sale. They have cut down on people in certain areas and even their former signature resturaunt, was turned in a players club which was shut down by the board of health because of their use of temporary buffet items on a permanent basis.

giselehaslice

August 13th, 2008, 11:19 PM

Intheknow

August 13th, 2008, 11:33 PM

^Yeah, Becuase you have all the knowlege (or lack there of) about Atlantic City and the casino business.

There might not be crowds tonight, but that makes sense, ITS WEDNESDAY! Have you no common sense? Atlantic City is a weekend town!

It's August 13th, in a "Resort town", every summer day is huge in this town, Casinos can't survive on relying on weekends in the summer. 80-90% of all business is done in the summer.

I have a selective commom sense.

Do you think South Philadelphia is a target area for the Chelsea?

giselehaslice

August 13th, 2008, 11:41 PM

Wow. You have got to be kidding me. There is no way that 80-90 percent of business done in AC is done in the summer. If that was the case, the Casinos would shut down after October and open up again in April. I've been to AC many times in the dead of winter, and while not packed, it certainly was not dead. I think your "selective" common sense is selective, but only to doom and gloom.

66nexus

August 13th, 2008, 11:57 PM

AC isn't Cleveland or Pittsburg or where ever. It's a resort. A place you go to, to feel good, to have a pleasant time. People will not excuse a shabby Boardwalk. No one paying 300 dollars a night will take a stroll on the Boardwalk and think to themselves: "Just because AC doesn't have a nice boardwalk now, does not mean it can never again". Nexus, it doesn't work that way.

A small city with 30 years of casino gambling revenues should not be in that shape. Period.

---

So exactly how does it work then because people are certainly not paying 300 to walk the B'walk. If the casinos weren't there, then no one would really be paying attention to the place...the exact fate the led to the casinos in the first place.

I stand by my remark. Let's face it, the B'walk got the backseat because it wasn't about the B'walk. The casinos weren't supposed to 'fix' AC, they were supposed to be a catalyst.

And we have to remember just how far down the rung we're starting here. AC is not just any small city, it was a suppressed and bombed out one for an incredibly long time.

Intheknow

August 13th, 2008, 11:57 PM

There are many outlying businesses that rely on the summer months to survive the winter, what if all the restaurants, shops, etc... boarded up there businesses, would this help AC image?

Casinos also need everyday of summer to ease there winter downturn.

I think this constitutes common sense.

giselehaslice

August 14th, 2008, 12:03 AM

Intheknow, no point in trying to reason with you, because you are an unreasonable person. Please, be my guest and keep spreading false information ( please get some support to you 80-90 percent statistic), and lets see what happens.

Intheknow

August 14th, 2008, 12:06 AM

A waitress told me that.

66nexus

August 14th, 2008, 12:08 AM

-I have come to notice that any celebration or optimism of developments automatically translates into looking through rose-colored glasses.

-However, any constant reminders of the bad things in AC is justified for some reason.

So...as much as I expect those who point out the negs to do so, expect me to point out the good.

I grow tired of reminding that there is acknowledgment of the bad things about AC. (I've knocked the tacky casinos, the new trump on down to the cheesy dollar stores, but yet this is having no standards for new development I suppose)

I just don't care to talk about it as much as others do, the same way others choose to do just that. So if its boring to some, sorry...don't know what to tell you, but do know that its a two-way street.

giselehaslice

August 14th, 2008, 12:13 AM

Intheknow, your just a comedian now, aren't you?

66nexus, I agree with you and I too can't beleive the negative mindedness that prevails on this board. It actually embarrasses me how close-minded and negative most people on here are, it's just really astounding.

Intheknow

August 14th, 2008, 12:15 AM

I, for one, understand, it's a two way street just like Atlantic and Pacific.

Did you check out the web site I posted above, you will find it interesting.

Humor has been proven to ease disagreements and prolong one's life.

zipburn

August 14th, 2008, 02:08 AM

I believe, like myself, that most people look at this thread to see progress in Atlantic City. It maybe small, it maybe little but its better then what it was before. Yet some people have turned this into a personal grievances thread. Most all of us that say positive things about Atlantic City acknowledge that the city has a bit to go but it is improving. No tourist destination is perfect so always bringing up the SAME old issues that have already been acknowledged by others and issues in which we have no control over is beyond tiresome. Atlantic City is unique in that it was something great until its brand died when the democratic convention came in the 1960s and the social programs started to become more prevelant with the residents. So now there are issues such as a growing segment of the population of ac that lives off of the government, glorified slum lords like the Schiffs, the kook family that owns the house on south columbus place, and others. Add in a growing segment of illegal immigrants that are located in the most anti-development union Local 54. The casinos and other private development is keeping the city rising in the face of these problems though.

Intheknow: Did you happen to notice during this time period a big cold front came through? Remember the storms on Sunday, they were directly associated with Cold air. So why would the people with summer homes in ac, ventnor, margate and longport stay around for the week when its supposed to be colder then normal? I can tell you the streets down here are empty they left on sunday morning.Thats the majority of people who ride bikes and run on the boardwalk, not ac only tourists. Those people stay in the casinos for the majority of the time. You would see them if you went into a casino once in a while. I expect a big week next week with airshow and jimmy buffet. I believe August will be another 6-7% loss but with gas prices continuing to drop it could be a better.

Fabrizio

August 14th, 2008, 06:52 AM

Atlantic City is unique in that it was something great until its brand died when the democratic convention came in the 1960s

Would you explain this further?

Intheknow

August 14th, 2008, 08:01 AM

August numbers will be down more then 6 or 7%, my perceptive methods rarely fail me. Umm, it's been beautiful down here the last three days.

Did you check out the web site? Check out the blog on Pinnacle/eminent domain, interesting stuff. The only buildings not taken, I think, are owned by a Councilmen.

American Gaming Guru

August 15th, 2008, 12:30 PM

What I cant stand is that it seems like everyone in AC is on a witch hunt after Pinnacle. More bad news from Vegas (although we all new this already):

Las Vegas Plaza Plans
Pushed Back to 2009

By TAMARA AUDI
August 15, 2008; Page A3

Plans to build the Las Vegas version of New York's iconic Plaza Hotel have been postponed, a spokesman for the project's owners said, the latest in a series of stalled, canceled or bankrupt projects beset by U.S. economic weakness.
The $5 billion Plaza casino-hotel development was scheduled to break ground by the end of 2008 on the site of the former New Frontier casino. The project's groundbreaking has been moved to "sometime in 2009," said Michelle Tsang, spokeswoman for Elad IDB Las Vegas LLC, a partnership between the Elad Group -- owners of New York's Plaza Hotel -- and IDB Group of Israel.
The Plaza partners also have deferred payment of a $625 million loan used to buy the project site, Ms. Tsang said. Elad IDB paid a premium price of $1.25 billion for 35 acres at the height of a land-buying frenzy on the Las Vegas Strip last year.
Despite the loan deferral and the postponement, Ms. Tsang said the owners plan to go forward with the project.
"They're definitely committed to building. Everything is still going ahead as planned, they're just not doing it in 2008," said Ms. Tsang. "They're doing what everyone else is doing. They're going to wait a little bit and see. It's the same at a lot of different projects."
A tough credit market and a consumer downturn have hit a number of big-ticket Las Vegas projects recently. Boyd Gaming Corp. recently announced that the construction of its $4.8 billion Las Vegas Strip project, Echelon, will be stalled while the company and its partners seek additional financing to complete it. A plan to build the tallest high-rise in Las Vegas was canceled before it broke ground.
Final plans for the Plaza were approved by county officials in Nevada in March. According to a statement from the company in March, those plans include seven towers, featuring an "ultra-luxury hotel, private residences, retail outlets, a state-of-the-art casino, destination restaurants, an entertainment venue and a convention complex."

Intheknow

August 15th, 2008, 05:21 PM

The worst is yet to come, sadly. Casino development is not economically feasible at this time. Pinnacle would build if it could, I don't see a witch hunt.

Intheknow

August 18th, 2008, 11:15 AM

If everyone calls Sam Catenese, Boardwalk and Beach division of AC, and asks that the city rake and clean the WHOLE beach before the air show they may just do it. 609-347-5320

With over 1/2 million people expected, it's little things like this that will bring back tourists.

I've been hearing better things about the Chelsea.

This past Saturday and Sunday were the busiest I've seen AC all year, used to be every weekend was like this.

American Gaming Guru

August 18th, 2008, 11:15 AM

Some interesting stuff on Pinnacle from the Press of AC:

Era ends for owner of Atlantic City motels that sheltered vacationers, victims

By ERIK ORTIZ Staff Writer, 609-272-7253

Published: Monday, August 18, 2008
[/URL] http://media.pressofatlanticcity.com/smedia/2008/08/18/08/443-econo.standalone.prod_affiliate.101.jpg

Charles and Morris Indyg stand in front of Econo Lodge on Kentucky Ave. in Atlantic City. The Indyg family has owned two motels on the beach block of Kentucky Avenue for decades. While they're known now as the Comfort Inn and the Econo Lodge, in the 70s the buildings were the Acapulco Motel and the Richfield-Boscobel Hotel. Today, they will be razed as part of the Pinnacle casino project, and the family will transfer ownership to the company by summer's end.
Anthony Smedile / The Press of Atlantic City

ATLANTIC CITY - The offer came in a letter earlier this year. A Las Vegas casino company wanted to pay Morris Indyg and his family for their two motel properties on Kentucky Avenue.

The company, Pinnacle Entertainment Inc., said it was building a megaresort; it needed the land.
Indyg weighed his options: He could hold out and challenge any threat to his one-block motel empire. Or the 89-year-old Polish immigrant could cash in, making good on the American dream.
With redevelopment already bearing down on the beachfront neighborhood, Indyg and his son, Charles, knew it was time to sell.
The Econo Lodge and Comfort Inn they worked so hard to build are set to close next month. About 40 people are employed at the motels, and workers have the chance to be transferred to other motel properties the family owns in Atlantic County.

Pinnacle Entertainment plans to construct its estimated $1.5 billion to $2 billion resort and casino on nearby land once home to the Sands Casino Hotel. But a weak credit market has put work on hold until at least 2010; Pinnacle has said it may abandon the project altogether.

At least for now, Charles Indyg has heard the motels might become a parking lot. If so, it would be an unassuming end for a business that has provided rooms for guests - and shelter for survivors.
Not just a motel
Since the mid-1990s, the American Red Cross Atlantic/Cumberland Chapter has counted on the Indygs' Econo Lodge motel as a respite for victims of fire and other disasters.
Resort motels typically have shown little interest in a partnership, said Pamela Grites, the local chapter's executive director.
Grites said motel owners want rooms reserved with credit upfront, which the nonprofit Red Cross is not able to do. Some of them also are unwilling to take large families or give rooms to people who may stay there for as long as 28 days, which is permitted when the city is the one subsidizing the room bill.
About 150 Atlantic City residents are the victims of fire each year and need emergency housing, Grites said.
The Red Cross is working with city officials to find another motel property willing to assume the Econo Lodge's role. If it cannot, victims will be placed in surrounding towns.
Grites said she would prefer giving dispaced residents a place to stay closer to home, adding that the Indygs have been ideal hosts.
"They know how to deal with our clients," she said. "They extend us courtesy, even in high (tourism) seasons to make room for us. That's asking a lot because obviously this is a resort town, and it gets more difficult to find rooms when it's a weekend or the summer."
When the Red Cross first asked the Indygs if they would house victims, Morris Indyg agreed.
"How could I not?" he said.
Wartime escape
Indyg was in his early 20s when World War II broke out in Poland.
Forced to live in the Warsaw Ghetto, he led a daring escape with two of his siblings, a relative through marriage named Sylvia and her sister. They fled to the home of a gentile family Indyg knew and trusted.
They were given shelter in a barn. To avoid Nazi capture, Indyg said, they hid underneath piles of hay in a loft space.
The group stayed there for 2 years, until January 1945, the year the war ended.
Indyg and Sylvia later married and emigrated to the United States. They raised three children in New York and moved to Vineland in 1969. Indyg worked as a manager at the Millville Dyeing and Finishing Co. plant, until it closed in the early 1970s.
In 1974, he tried out a new line of work: the hotel business. He said he paid $175,000 to buy the 100-room Richfield-Boscobel Hotel on the beach block of Kentucky Avenue.
Despite the lack of hotel experience, he made a good living, he said, and two years later he bought a neighboring property called the Acapulco Motel. It was converted into an Econo Lodge in 1988. The Richfield-Boscobel was used as a parking lot.
In 1995, Indyg purchased another hotel property on Kentucky Avenue for $1.25 million. The family turned it into a Comfort Inn with Jacuzzis in every room.
The Red Cross' request for help came unexpectedly. To the Indygs, it was a way for "spiritual repayment." When victims needed a place to stay, Morris Indyg would make room - sometimes at the expense of regular business.
"Providing the rooms was his way of doing for others as people did for him," said Charles Indyg, 51.
During a ceremony at Harrah's Resort earlier this year, the Red Cross presented the Indygs with a lifetime achievement award.
Invaluable gift
On a recent Friday, standing in the doorway of his soon-to-close Econo Lodge, Morris Indyg pulled out a wallet filled with family pictures and flipped open to a grainy black-and-white photo of an older man in a dark suit.
His name was Wladyslaw Guzik. He was the one who hid Indyg and his family during the Holocaust. He had risked his life, Indyg said, and gave them something invaluable: shelter.
Guzik and his wife died about two decades ago. Indyg thinks of Guzik often.
"He was a sweet man," he said. "You don't have people like this anymore."
Staff writer Donald Wittkowski contributed to this report.
E-mail Erik Ortiz: EOrtiz@pressofac.com

Pinnacle continues to promote stalled casino project with billboards

By DONALD WITTKOWSKI Staff Writer, 609-272-7258

Published: Monday, August 18, 2008
[URL="http://media.pressofatlanticcity.com/smedia/2008/08/18/07/83-pinnacle.standalone.prod_affiliate.101.jpg"] (http://media.pressofatlanticcity.com/smedia/2008/08/18/08/443-econo.standalone.prod_affiliate.101.jpg) http://media.pressofatlanticcity.com/smedia/2008/08/18/07/83-pinnacle.standalone.prod_affiliate.101.jpg

Billboards on top of the Boardwalk buildings between Martin Luther King Blvd. and Indiana advertise the Pinnacle in Atlantic City.
Ben Fogletto / The Press of Atlantic City

ATLANTIC CITY - A gigantic billboard hovering over the Boardwalk drew quizzical looks from New Yorkers Helena and Josie Grants as they relaxed on a bench during a sunny afternoon.

"Until we open, you'll just have to play somewhere less fun," the sign declared.
Josie turned toward her sister and shrugged her shoulders in a "What does it mean?" kind of way. Helena vaguely recalled plans for a new casino and guessed the billboard offered a sneak peek of that project.
"Isn't it going to be built at the end of the Boardwalk, by the Showboat?" Helena asked.
"Oh, is that where it is?" Josie said.

Actually, the billboard overlooks the Indiana Avenue site where Pinnacle Entertainment Inc. imploded the Sands Casino Hotel last fall to make room for a new $1.5 billion to $2 billion megaresort that would dominate the central part of the Boardwalk.

Even before Pinnacle blew the Sands to smithereens, it began teasing its project with a series of billboards on the Boardwalk and on highways and bridges from Philadelphia to Atlantic City.
"You know what this town could use? Another casino," one says playfully.
The billboards remain standing even though Pinnacle's casino has been stalled by a lack of financing created by the global credit crisis. The company originally planned to start construction this year but has pushed back the timetable to 2010.
Pinnacle chairman Dan Lee has put 50-50 odds on whether the casino will be built. So the billboards tout the arrival of a casino that may never materialize. For the time being, the company intends to keep the promotional campaign going, insisting it is not outdated.
"We still get tons of positive comments," Pinnacle spokeswoman Carmen Gonzales said.
Gonzales declined to say how much Pinnacle is paying for the billboards. Altogether, there are 16 - nine on the Atlantic City Expressway, four on Route 30, two on the Boardwalk at Indiana Avenue and one on the Walt Whitman Bridge in Philadelphia.
Pinnacle has donated one of the expressway billboards for the past two years to the Atlantic County United Way. Another was recently donated to the Greater Atlantic City Chamber of Commerce to promote the city's air show this week, Gonzales said.
The other signs continue to tantalize the public with promises of a Las Vegas-style casino hotel that will be "worth the wait."
Gonzales said Pinnacle has not yet decided whether to keep the same billboard messages up or replace them with a new advertising campaign.
"We have found them to have significant value," she said. "We intend on retaining these boards throughout our development process."
Interestingly, Pinnacle's advertising blitz replaced a series of old Sands billboards that had grown woefully outdated by the time they were finally taken down. The Sands billboards continued to invite customers to "join us for a nostalgic farewell" long after the casino had closed for good Nov. 11, 2006.
Pinnacle inherited the billboard sites when it bought the Sands. One of the signs urges Pinnacle customers to be patient, an apt message for a casino that would probably open no earlier than 2013.
"We'll make your indulgence worth the wait," it says.

E-mail Donald Wittkowski: DWittkowski@pressofac.com (DWittkowski@pressofac.com)

acplayer

August 18th, 2008, 01:47 PM

Hopefully it's not just another vacant surface parking lot for too long. It's too bad there aren't many small hoteliers left in A.C.

Here's the old Boscobel that used to be on this site.

http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh72/acplayerr/acboscobelhotelpc1905.jpg

American Gaming Guru

August 19th, 2008, 11:13 AM

Agreed. The reviews are getting better now that The Chelsea is more of a full-service hotel. This is from a NYC based (I think) website called www.downbythehipster.com (http://www.downbythehipster.com)

A Weekend At: The Chelsea Atlantic City (http://www.downbythehipster.com/blog/2008/8/18/a-weekend-at-the-chelsea-atlantic-city.html)

http://www.downbythehipster.com/storage/2008_chelseaAC.JPG?__SQUARESPACE_CACHEVERSION=1219 071943961
In a special weekend long edition of An Evening At:, DBTH invaded Atlantic City this past weekend for a full evaluation of the new Chelsea Hotel (http://www.downbythehipster.com/blog/category/chelsea-hotel). Brace yourselves for a full rundown of the joint - operations, room, pool, beach, and the 5th Floor - throughout the day. But please be patient, it was a long couple of days.

Luxe Life at the Chelsea Hotel (http://www.downbythehipster.com/blog/2008/8/18/luxe-life-at-the-chelsea-hotel.html)

http://www.downbythehipster.com/storage/2008_chelsearoom.JPG?__SQUARESPACE_CACHEVERSION=12 19076864634Stepping into the Chelsea Hotel in Atlantic City is a bit like stepping into the set of Mad Men. The developers and architects did a tremendous job reaching back into the resort town's past to connect it with what they hope is the future. So while the hallways have brown patterned wall paper and striped carpets, the rooms display a simplistic elegance with some design flourishes accentuating the hotel's throwback theme with modern touches that today's traveler demands. What does that all mean? Well, the plush king size bed sits beneath a black, Formica-esque headboard and there is a leopard print chair and ottoman in the corner, all facing a 37" LCD. The lamps, dressers and curtains all contribute to the motif, bringing guests back to the classic hotel days of yesteryear.

http://www.downbythehipster.com/storage/2008_retrogum.JPG?__SQUARESPACE_CACHEVERSION=12190 76964042
The topper is the mini-bar, complete with an assortment of Atlantic City goodies and retro candy that make sure you know that "old is new". The prices were reasonable, but we weren't in the Blackjack gum mood. Maybe next time. Each room also comes equipped with a Kiki de Monterparnasse Travel Intimacy Kit, just in case things on the 5th Floor get a little too wild.
While the room was very nice, there were still a few kinks to work out. The elevator service was spotty, the shower lacked a soap dish, and the air conditioner was rather noisy, the last two a throwback to the hotel's most recent turn as a Howard Johnson. Management assured us that improvements to the elevator system and HVAC are in the works, so we give them a pass.

Overall, you have to hand it to the entire Chelsea design team. While the Borgata wanted to bring modern Vegas to the East Coast, the Chelsea is trying to establish an Atlantic City identity born out of its historic hey day. In terms of design, they pulled it off.

http://www.downbythehipster.com/storage/2008_kikikit.JPG?__SQUARESPACE_CACHEVERSION=121907 7054998

Pool and Beachside at the Chelsea (http://www.downbythehipster.com/blog/2008/8/18/pool-and-beachside-at-the-chelsea.html)

http://www.downbythehipster.com/storage/2008_chelseapoolside.JPG?__SQUARESPACE_CACHEVERSIO N=1219090060140
So we've covered the rooms (http://www.downbythehipster.com/blog/2008/8/18/luxe-life-at-the-chelsea-hotel.html) (and the sign (http://www.downbythehipster.com/blog/2008/8/18/a-weekend-at-the-chelsea-atlantic-city.html)). It's time now to move outdoors for some daytime recreational activity at the Chelsea Hotel. Weather wise, we couldn't have asked for a better weekend. The sun was out all weekend with nary a cloud to be seen. At around 12:00 on Saturday, we headed down to the pool to check out the scene. The actually pool is rather small, but for reason there are 2 lifeguards on duty. Safety first. There are approximately 50 lounge chairs spaced around the perimeter with seven cabanas lining the edge of the roof. http://www.downbythehipster.com/storage/2008_poolsidecabanas.JPG?__SQUARESPACE_CACHEVERSIO N=1219090126829
This was the first weekend that the pool was serving food, so we settled in for a day of cocktails, music and sun, and mixed it all together with some delicious food. It didn't reach Roosevelt standards (or anything close to it), but the Chelsea pool was most certainly fun. There were several Eastern European waitresses buzzing around, attentive to your every need. Our favorite part was the $40 pitcher of cocktails we ordered up around 4:00. We selected some sort of vodka and rosemary infused lemonade which was both large and refreshing. Did we mention it was large? We're talking 8 or 9 solid glasses. Look out.
http://www.downbythehipster.com/storage/2008_chelsealemonade.JPG?__SQUARESPACE_CACHEVERSIO N=1219090290208
By 4:00, the sun had moved to the other side of the building, covering the roof deck with shade. We decided to make our way down to the famous Atlantic City beach to soak up a few more hours of sun. Good move. Good move. The Chelsea has a dedicated team of attendants surf side who are there to provide you with chairs, towels and an umbrella. Cabanas are also available to rent if you so desire. We did not. Sadly, there was no more lemonade available. Tear.

The beach was our chosen local on Sunday as well, and the common sentiment we heard was how great the Atlantic City beach was. The fickle New Yorkers who had made there way down for the weekend festivities (more later) were all smiles, enjoying the surf, sun and sand that is just steps away from the Chelsea. We agree completely. We really do agree.

An Evening At: The Fifth Floor at the Chelsea (http://www.downbythehipster.com/blog/2008/8/19/an-evening-at-the-fifth-floor-at-the-chelsea.html)

http://www.downbythehipster.com/storage/2008_lounge.JPG?__SQUARESPACE_CACHEVERSION=1219113 071771
So we've covered the rooms (http://www.downbythehipster.com/blog/2008/8/18/luxe-life-at-the-chelsea-hotel.html). We've covered the pool (http://www.downbythehipster.com/blog/2008/8/18/pool-and-beachside-at-the-chelsea.html). What about the Fifth Floor? As you all know, the Chelsea Hotel team locked up Paul Sevigny and Matt Abramcyk to bring their Beatrice cache out of New York and down to the beach. A bold and risky move for several reasons, but why look back? So what has the arrangement produced so far? We'll tell you. First, like everything else in the hotel, the spaces are retro and suave, with a throwback game room, lounge and pool side bar. Since the weather was so nice all weekend, the space that got the most play was the outdoor space. Friday night was relatively quiet, with some shore rats listening to the Beatrice DJ's spinning. Saturday night is when things got interesting.

http://www.downbythehipster.com/storage/2008_chelseagameroom?__SQUARESPACE_CACHEVERSION=12 19113277078
It all started Saturday afternoon when the party bus rolled in from New York City. That evening, the Chelsea was set to host Anna Abramcyck's (Matt's sister) birthday party, and to help her celebrate, the hotel bussed down heaps of her friends. After a late supper, we strolled into the Fifth Floor around midnight. We found the game room relatively empty, but the outdoor lounge was on and popping. MGMT was blaring over the speakers, and the bus folks were starting to make their way downstairs from the penthouse pre-game.
Fast forward to 2:00 AM, when some of the LCD Soundsystem crew had taken over the tables, spinning a deep funk groove. The birthday party (and DBTH) had crossed the threshold into the game room and indoor bar and a dance party was in full effect. The pool deck cleared out, but the party was just getting started. By 3:30, it was seemingly anything goes, and almost anything did. We headed upstairs at about 4, but it seemed like we were the first. Such losers. If the Chelsea wanted to show that the NYC kiddies would be willing to trek down to the dirty dirty, this is certainly a good start. Those who were there certainly learned first hand that you can have fun in Atlantic City. But how did they enjoy the shore regulars that had to gawk at their VIP treatment? And will that turn the regulars off? We certainly shall see.
http://www.downbythehipster.com/storage/2008_chelseapooldeck?__SQUARESPACE_CACHEVERSION=12 19113354340

AC11

August 19th, 2008, 04:24 PM

Thats a great write up for The Chelsea. Thanks for digging that up AGG.

Also, on another note, here is proof that it is not just us suffering.

Business crumbling for Connecticut casinos
(August 19, 2008 9:00 AM)

by Ray Poirier | While gaming analysts have been focusing on declining business in Atlantic City and Las Vegas, less attention has been given to two of the world’s most successful casinos: Foxwoods Resort and Mohegan Sun in Connecticut.

Yet, the two properties have been hit hard by a lack of patronage that has been blamed on a weak economy and high gas prices.

In July, Mohegan Sun reported its slot machine revenue had declined $16.1 million or 14.6% from the amount recorded in July, 2007. It was better at Foxwoods but not much. The slot machine income fell 3.2% or about $2.4 million.

"There’s no doubt," said Mitchell Etess, president and CEO of Mohegan Sun, "that we’re seeing the impacts of people’s feelings on the economy."

Except for the month of May, the two casinos have had almost a year of declining revenue. May’s numbers were higher, said an official, because of the opening of MGM Grand at Foxwoods property.

Intheknow

August 19th, 2008, 06:24 PM

Everyone is suffering, most sectors are hurting.

Second quarter profit was down 16.5% in AC Casinos-ACPress.com 8/19/08

Gambling stocks were down almost 10% today! MGM, etc... OUCH.

Most everything is cyclical, things will get better, but the worst has yet to be felt.

I'm going to have to go and check out this Chelsea, hope they let me in.

NYatKNIGHT

August 20th, 2008, 11:07 AM

When gambling is down, Foxwoods should be hurting, but you'd think A.C. should be able to weather it a little better as a summer beach resort destination, like Ocean City, Md. for example which has condos, hotels, houses, bars, concerts, shopping, boardwalk, nightlife, boating, amusement park, etc...almost everything except casinos. I'm not "in the know", so here's a question: does it?

unknown memory

August 20th, 2008, 04:21 PM

^ Actually, you should be using Wildwood, NJ for the example. Not OC, MD since it's farther south. Wildwood so far has attracted a lot of people as far as Canada. It has no casinos, but has pretty much everything else including night life at 2 AM.

I just went this past weekend and was amazed at how much has changed since my last visit there. Every single hotel/motel was sold out so it took my Dad and me five hours to find a hotel half an hour away inland.

Also, there is Seaside Heights which is the smaller version of Wildwood. Ocean City, NJ is the dry amusement beach area which isn't far from Atlantic City. The family friendly shore with tons of amusements and mini-golfing.

Then, there's Keansburg and Fantasy Island. Perhaps, the lesser known shore amusement spots.

Atlantic City has Steel Pier, but compared to the Stratosphere and the roller coaster on NYNY in Las Vegas, I don't know. It seems that the Stratosphere keeps changing every decade while the Steel Pier has pretty much stayed the same. (Wildwood makes Coney Island look like it really is stuck in its own little time.) The changing of attractions is what helps draw people in. The Orlando formula, as I dub it, since what works in other touristic places all depends on changes/improvements of their attractions.

zipburn

August 20th, 2008, 08:45 PM

Record crowds thunder to Boardwalk Air Show

By STEVEN LEMONGELLO, Staff Writer, 609-272-7275

Published: Wednesday, August 20, 2008
[/URL] http://media.pressofatlanticcity.com/smedia/2008/08/20/17/687-AirShow12.standalone.prod_affiliate.101.jpg

Spectators watch the skies as US Air National Guard F-16's from the 177th Fighter Wing are displayed on a large display at The Pier during the Atlantic City Thunder over the Boardwalk Air Show in Atlantic City, Wednesday August 20, 2008.
Michael Ein

[URL="http://pressofac.mycapture.com/mycapture/photos/Upload.aspx?CategoryID=28449"]Click to share your Air Show photos (http://media.pressofatlanticcity.com/smedia/2008/08/20/17/687-AirShow12.standalone.prod_affiliate.101.jpg)

http://media.pressofatlanticcity.com/smedia/2008/08/20/17/250-import-611-AirShow17.highlight.prod_affiliate.101.thumb.prod_ affiliate.101.jpg (javascript:goGallery('/303/gallery/234259.html')) GALLERY: Click here to view 2008 Atlantic City Air Show (javascript:goGallery('/303/gallery/234259.html'))

5:15 p.m. Update - The Atlantic City Airshow shattered the attendance records set by last year’s event, with police estimating that 700,000 people packed the beach and Boardwalk – a figure close to 200,000 more than even the highest estimates for 2007’s show.

A banner plane that flew across the beach at Atlantic City this morning - minutes after the Atlantic City Airshow was kicked off at 10 a.m. ‑ raised some concerns among lifeguards who thought that restricted airspace was being violated, but it was in fact an official tribute to a late Airshow organizer.
“We were planning that for months now,” said organizer David Schultz of David Schultz Airshows LLC of the plane, which draped a banner reading “This 2008 airshow is dedicated to Bess Miller.” The tribute to Miller, who died this past year, was not on the planned schedule distributed before the show. Several air show volunteers who saw the plane were visibly moved as the banner passed by.

________________________

Atlantic City is able to handle it a little better then others.. What people don't realize is that being a shore community, the surrounding citys swell during the summer months. Atlantic City feeds off the people who own shore homes or stay in these beach communities to the north and south. There has be a decent sized decline in the amount of people in these cities such as brigantine, ventnor, margate... that was until Aug 1st, as gas prices continue to drop even though they are still high, they are percieved to be low because they are 50 cents less then they were last month.. I have been out of town the past two weekends, but the weekend of august 1st was equivalent to july 4th crowds, ITK commented this past weekend was slammed, as referenced above the airshow was a huge success, a popstar is in boardwalk hall on friday nite and jimmy buffet is in town on sunday. With gas prices continuing to drop expect AC to start showing signs of bucking the downward trend. There is chance atlantic city is going to have a positive increase over the same month last year.

Intheknow

August 20th, 2008, 09:14 PM

Not a chance in hell, Zip. It's going to be one of the worst August's ever for Casinos.

As for NYatknight, I'll have to think about your question.

Intheknow

August 21st, 2008, 09:59 AM

American Gaming Guru

August 21st, 2008, 11:57 AM

66nexus

August 21st, 2008, 12:23 PM

There are a million reasons AC is not a resort town. Reason #1- Out of about 100 stores on the boardwalk, 64 (rough count) are either tee-shirt shops or psychic/massage stores. The rest are bad pizza joints (try Mack and Mancos in Ocean City). This is not diversity. In a seven day vacation a family will run out of options in one day.

AC not a 'traditional' resort town...maybe. But if it's not a resort town then what is it? Hate to say it, but you don't need diversity for people to come to your town.

A seven day vacating family will run out of options in lots of places, additionally: we've already beaten up and established that AC is absolutely NOT a long-term stay city. Even Vegas has an average 4 night average stay rate.

66nexus

August 21st, 2008, 12:35 PM

There might not be crowds tonight, but that makes sense, ITS WEDNESDAY! Have you no common sense? Atlantic City is a weekend town!

Also, for some reason, some like to cite how bad the times are for AC, but yet do not include the condition of the economy.

Funny how a successful airshow can still be twisted on this board as bad. Not, 'hey good for AC' but rather, 'well the next month will be bad'.

but then folks wonder why we feel the negativity gets old!

Intheknow

August 21st, 2008, 12:54 PM

I don't see where anyone said airshow was bad for AC. I've stated before economy is bad for everyone in all sectors, yet Ocean City and Wildwood etc. are packed their numbers are down but not as dramatic as AC.

The casino employees are telling me business is way down and their hours are being cut. On a Saturday night the Casino tables are half full. Borgota and Harrahs may be doing better then most but to survive all Casinos need to do well.

66nexus

August 21st, 2008, 01:23 PM

^Don't remember saying anyone said the airshow was bad in the first place. I said it's funny the airshow could be 'twisted' to be something bad (or negative for that matter)

Also, I truly don't think Ocean City or Wildwood draw the visitor numbers that AC does anyway

Intheknow

August 21st, 2008, 01:40 PM

OC and wildwood percentages are not down as much as AC. I'm not here to argue.

"you don't need diversity" , well it sure does help, at the very least it doesn't hurt.

NYatKNIGHT

August 21st, 2008, 03:52 PM

Have you no common sense? Atlantic City is a weekend town!Talk about common sense....it should not be established that it isn't, nor should it be, a long-term stay city. It should be its goal to draw more, at least what its neighbors do in the summer months, for its own economic survival.

The airshow looks like it was a great draw. It's nice to hear the local shops and restaurants were packed. I wonder what everyone thought of those non-casino establishments.

unknown memory

August 21st, 2008, 04:43 PM

The day that us non-gamblers rule the earth, yeah... I think it's getting there. :rolleyes:

Intheknow

August 21st, 2008, 05:13 PM

NYatKNIGHT

August 21st, 2008, 05:22 PM

For the record, I've been to and have had a blast in Atlantic City many, many times (though not in a couple of years), I've been to Vegas almost as many times, and I do like to gamble. I've been rooting for AC since about 1983 when I first drove down with a group of friends and saw the blight, the hidden charm, and the potential.

Fabrizio

August 21st, 2008, 05:24 PM

Atlantic City is a weekend town?

Honestly, I don't know anyone who goes to Atlantic City.

I know people who go to "The Casinos", but in the last 25 years, I've never heard of anyone going to Atlantic City.

Last year I went to the Borgata. Tunneled in... tunneled out. But I did not go to Atlantic City.

People go to Ocean City. They go to Wildwood... Avalon... Stone Harbor... Cape May. And many stay for a week... or two.

Not too long ago people DID go to Atlantic City, so I'm happy to hear that the air show packed them in.

I'm wondering what they thought of AC while walking back to their cars?

Well... A.C. sure does have a nice choice of parking lots.

--

American Gaming Guru

August 21st, 2008, 05:38 PM

Pinnacle still wants to build Atlantic City casino, chairman says

By DONALD WITTKOWSKI, Staff Writer, 609-272-7258

Published: Thursday, August 21, 2008
http://media.pressofatlanticcity.com/smedia/2008/08/21/15/359-Pinnacle_Atlantic_City.embedded.prod_affiliate.101 .jpg (http://media.pressofatlanticcity.com/smedia/2008/08/21/15/107-Pinnacle_Atlantic_City.standalone.prod_affiliate.1 01.jpg) http://media.pressofatlanticcity.com/smedia/2008/08/21/15/107-Pinnacle_Atlantic_City.standalone.prod_affiliate.1 01.jpg

Pinnacle Atlantic City, formerly The Sands Casino Hotel.
EDWARD LEA

3:32 p.m. Update - ATLANTIC CITY — The chairman of Pinnacle Entertainment Inc. reassured New Jersey gaming regulators Thursday that his company remains serious about building a new casino despite uncertainty about the financing and timing of a project that could cost “in the billions.”

Dan Lee said Pinnacle has already invested $400 million for land, design work and other expenses and is waiting for the global credit crunch to finally ease before it seeks construction financing for the proposed 3,000-room casino hotel.
“We intend to have more rooms than any of the existing casinos here,” Lee told the state Casino Control Commission while giving an update on Pinnacle’s plans.
Lee, though, provided few other details and did not say when Pinnacle intends to start construction on the site of the old Sands Casino Hotel. He noted that the company has been refining the designs and is awaiting a cost estimate from consultants. “I’m going to get some number in the billions,” he said.

Fabrizio

August 21st, 2008, 06:05 PM

So far they've invested 400 million... 400 million in a property right in the middle of the Boardwalk... a structure that will have a huge impact on the city, yet no has seen a rendering?

No one knows if Pacific or the side streets will be brought to life... or if they'll be walled off to the public as has been the practice... no one knows what they're offering to the public on the boardwalk frontage. No laws on the books directing them to create a sense of place on those city streets?

And it seems like that's just fine with everybody.

Let's cross our fingers and hope for the best.

Honestly folks... does it work that way anywhere else?

NYatKNIGHT

August 21st, 2008, 06:15 PM

Use your common sense! This is a weekend town. Nobody cares whether or not there is a big blank wall right in the center of town because everyone will be in the casino. Having the most rooms is all we need to hear. They are already budget cutting and slashing amenities, so stop being so negative.

Intheknow

August 21st, 2008, 06:15 PM

Hope and dreams of building, it does not look good at all, for at least five years, quite kidding yourselves. As I've stated before talk is cheap, building a Casino is not. I honestly don't see anything being built here in the near future. There's more talk and no action in AC then anywhere I've ever been. Pinnacle is full of shit, guaranteed.

The ECONOMY has not reached bottom!

You missed the blank wall on the south end, east end, every otherblock on boardwalk, ................. Start a Mural Arts program for the children of AC to paint these walls! They do it in Philadelphia and it is very successful. How hard is that????

Fabrizio

August 21st, 2008, 06:44 PM

Childrens art belongs in the class room.

In the meantime, with 400 million so far invested, they should be required to build temporary structures along Pacific and the boardwalk. They should not be allowed to add to AC's blight with a huge empty field in the middle of town... for how many years?

Oh... excuse my thinking for being so... responsible... er, I mean negative...

Intheknow

August 21st, 2008, 07:13 PM

Before you say childrens art belongs in classroom, check out what they have designed in Philadelphia. It gives them a sense of responsibility, pride, and accomplishment, things that are sorely lacking in AC. Also, the neighbors are given a say of what the mural should be, it's a total win, win, win.

Some of these walls have been barren for years and will remain so, and we add new walls everyday. Peter Max has left Atlantic City, now we have a blank, ugly space next to the original Convention Center, and, to boot, we put an empty lot in front of it!

Little things mean alot.

Fabrizio

August 21st, 2008, 07:18 PM

Children did paint the Dennis, didn't they?

acplayer

August 21st, 2008, 08:03 PM

Fabrizio and Intheknow hit the nail right on the head. A.C. was The summer resort town for over a century. Entire families used to come down and stay the whole summer and Never run out of things to do. A.C. had over 14 theaters, over 300 restaurants and clubs, music playing all over town and big acts at the Steel Pier and hotels. Rides and other unique acts at the Million Dollar Pier and Steeplechase. A.C. leaders have this mentality that they'll take any development whatsoever without any thought to what it looks like or how it relates to the streets, etc... I hope Pinnacle's beach theme means huge wrap around porches, sidewalk level store fronts and multiple entries, not just more walled off dead zones.

Offer the people reasons to leave the boxy casinos and want to walk around town. Eyes and ears on the sidewalks means a safer more vibrant city.

http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh72/acplayerr/acbwcrowd1950s.jpg

66nexus

August 21st, 2008, 08:26 PM

^

Everyone wants to be impressed, but seem to assume that (I truly hate to say it) AC deserves development because it just is (send in the hate). Sorry folks, this was a city that was all but signed off until the vote went in to build casinos. The 300 restaurants/theaters etc. all 'was'...

The old city that we miss dearly was a model that failed when planes came around and people could fly to other destinations; so even then...AC was given the backseat.

street charm and city-scapes are beautiful/wonderful/great, but not only does AC not even have the density, it isn't even built-out (note the HUGE swaths of nothing-land throughout)

AC should stop trying to remake the past and find its own future, which I don't believe is in DisneyWorld or Vegas or the various other cities mentioned.

Fabrizio

August 21st, 2008, 08:56 PM

Nearly every American city, big or small, went on the skids from the period of the late 60's through the 70's. AC was not unique in that sense. Most of those cities found a way to renew and suddenly urban living became fashionable. Those mean streets became gentrified and glittering.

On the road to renewal, AC had a huge advantage over many others: legalized gambling (1978) and the millions of dollars that would go into building a great new city.

By now, the AC of today should have been a bustling, fashionable, beautiful place. Just as much as that scene in the photo above.

------

If AC can't learn from Vegas, Disney, Miami, and proven concepts of new urbanism... or even from it's own great past... what should be it's development path?

A parking lot of self-contained mega resort/casinos?

--

giselehaslice

August 21st, 2008, 09:04 PM

Okay, for the people who are twisting my words about atlantic city being a weekend town, I never said that because of people visiting during the weekend architecture didn't matter. And for people who don't see that it really gets more crowded during the weekend than during the week (therefore being a weekend destination) are surely braindead.

Intheknow

August 21st, 2008, 09:12 PM

That's not the point. Why does AC limit itself to being a weekend resort?

My brain is becoming dead, I will try to be simple in any future posts.

A mural is a painting on a wall consisting of an image to beautify said wall, neon paint on the Dennis is an atrocity against the craftsman who built it.

zipburn

August 21st, 2008, 09:14 PM

Fabrizio

August 21st, 2008, 09:30 PM

It's Filthy-delphia.

Or at least it was: for all of it's still present problems, Center City is now mostly a clean and pleasant place with gentrified areas that were a no-man's land a couple of decades ago. Today, it's really hard to remember just how bad CenterCity really was.

http://www.nextgreatcity.com/

zipburn

August 21st, 2008, 09:40 PM

If AC can't learn from Vegas, Disney, Miami, and proven concepts of new urbanism... or even from it's own great past... what should be it's development path?

A parking lot of self-contained mega resort/casinos?

--

AC won't learn from either of those destinations because of inherent disadvantages. One vegas started from the ground up,they don't have slumlords like the schiff's holding onto properties that where built before vegas was built and not repairing them. All of those places mentioned are much larger. You can talk about south beach all you want but what about the condition of the rest of the city?
Weather, believe it or not, actually influences where a person is to take a trip to. Considering AC can be 20 degrees while its 70+ in the other cities at the same time, i think that is of just a little importance. People don't wan't to sit out at a table when sub 40 degree 20 mph+ winds are blowing your napkins off the table. This is over 1/3 of the year. The spring on the island is horrible its full of fog and its at least 10 degrees cooler then than the mainland.This is not something you can overlook when you want all the casinos to have people walking outside their building instead of inside them. Plus everyone seems to forget that most of the jobs here are entry level service industry type jobs. The people that have these jobs can't afford to live on the island anymore and the ones that can don't want to live around the corner from Welfare Wally and his friends. Atlantic City just isn't big enough to be a tourist town and corporate town. As the state becomes more of socalist state, the casinos are the only one keeping this boat floating.

Fabrizio

August 21st, 2008, 09:55 PM

Agreed about realities like the Schiffs and AC's big welfare population. That is even more of a reason to have new development carefully designed to encourage streets and places: the blank wall/parking garage streetscape only adds to the problem... doesn't help it.

Weather: not an issue if AC is developed as a proper city... and it certainly can be. Note BTW: that the crowd on the boardwalk in that photo above are wearing coats. As a child I remember driving to AC to walk on the Boardwalk, to go shopping on Atlantic Avenue, during the winter. Thanksgiving, NewYears, Easter... all a big deal in AC.

But I think the biggest obstacle to intelligent development is the incredibly complacent, unsophisticated (let's face it... kind of dumb) local mind-set.

--

zipburn

August 21st, 2008, 10:52 PM

But I think the biggest obstacle to intelligent development is the incredibly complacent, unsophisticated (let's face it... kind of dumb) local mind-set.

It's ashame what has happened to this city. I believe the biggest issue that might change this is the relaxing of the rules regarding casino workers running for government. There are plenty of people who could run circles around these clowns with qualifications for running this city but the pay cut isn't worth it or they have already left the town.

With regards to the people shopping outside in the winter, they are out in masses at The Walk during the winter. In my previous post I was assuming we were talking about going-on vacation tourists. The one to two dayers from this area are used to these temperatures(actually AC is usually warmer in the fall/winter(as you would already know)).

Fabrizio, i know this hard but Atlantic City's success relys more on convention/trade shows then anything else. The location of "The Walk" is set so people could leave conventions and get a great first impression and intice more conv./trade shows to come. Sure it's not perfect but it is a sucess and has added postitives to AC's image.

zipburn

August 21st, 2008, 11:16 PM

Actually, I agree with Intheknow on this one. I think the trend is going to show that August gaming revenue will be down. Regardless of the Air Show.

I think the show is great as it brings masses of people to town and they get a look at all the positive development that has occurred over the past few years. But I would bet that it is generally not the kind of crowd that would swarm the casinos.

I did hear; however, that many of the local shops and restaurants were absolutely packed due to the airshow. In summary, great for the city, not necessarily for the casinos.

Either way, a good thing!

The Airshow is a great thing, but I wasn't just commenting on the airshow. I have been out of town past two weekends but based on Mr. Negative it was slammed this past weekend, it has been slammed all week long infact. The line at Harrah's to checkin on Monday, exceeded the fri of july 4th weekend two fold(and they added two extra checkin stations since then). THe first weekend of August was slammed infact it was busier then July 4th. The city is still filled to the brim and with Jimmy Buffett at the Boardwalk hall expect another strong weekend. Do I really believe it will be a positive month, not really, but I originally said it would be only a 6-7% decline at the begining of the month. I believe it will at the most be a 6-7% decline maybe better. So all I said is there is a chance there will be a bump over last year for the same month.

For what its worth, I don't live in Atlantic City, but i spend the majority of my day in the city, in and around the casinos. I get a good view of how certain places are doing and aren't doing. I know for a fact that I can and have given a better barometer of the level of customers in town compared to other posters on this board. As I see all casinos not just the ones that are the smallest or run by the state an base everything off of that.

One more thing those buildings next to the Enclave the "historic" ones need to be demolished soon.

Intheknow

August 22nd, 2008, 12:35 AM

Blah, blah, blah....... Time will tell on the #'s for August.

Why do the historic buildings next to Enclave need to be demolished? Lack of City code enforcment making the owners comply to codes? I know someone who owned one of those buildings was living there legally until Bashaw/Barr made their "purchase" offer. (The owner stripped all copper out of building before leaving).

Debating about how many people are here on a given day does not address the problems of AC's architecture, planning, image.

Intheknow

August 22nd, 2008, 12:41 AM

unknown memory

August 22nd, 2008, 04:57 AM

The shops? Very generic, typical shops you would find in any town. The t-shirt, "souvenir" shops would look good in India.

The pier and walk are not unique, same stores as any other outlet in any American city.

I'm from Philadelphia, lots of history and modern to go around, I'm spoiled.
As a casual non-gambler visitor, I go to AC to look at the buildings and to marvel how much the city has changed. I don't go there for shopping. :D I'm from Paramus. Little history, but lots and lots of shopping. So, of course, I can easily glomp the thrifty souvenier shops and the un-unique stores in the AC's "mall" together. Therefore, I don't visit AC that often since there isn't much to do around there.

Yet, whenever I do visit, I think about the vast history that AC had in its past. Today, AC is half plagued by those slums outside the casino areas. I think AC has a chance to improve itself more. Focus on a lot of the local issues. The potential is there but hasn't been grasped too much. -_-

I believe The Walk is a good thing on AC. It does give day trippers something to do despite how unoriginal it is. For the AC locals, it gave them a new place to shop. (And to go original would probably be building the country's largest indoor amusement/water park so it can be runned all year long but nahhh..)

American Gaming Guru

August 22nd, 2008, 12:11 PM

Mark my words.....Pinnacle eventually builds!

Pinnacle still wants to build Atlantic City casino, chairman says

By DONALD WITTKOWSKI Staff Writer, 609-272-7258

Published: Friday, August 22, 2008
http://media.pressofatlanticcity.com/smedia/2008/08/21/17/896-pinnaclecasino2.standalone.prod_affiliate.101.jpg

Pinnacle Entertainment CEO Dan Lee sits in the Casino Control Commission chambers before testifying Thursday about the company's delayed casino project in Atlantic City.
Anthony Smedile

http://media.pressofatlanticcity.com/smedia/2008/08/21/15/107-Pinnacle_Atlantic_City.standalone.prod_affiliate.1 01.jpg

(http://media.pressofatlanticcity.com/smedia/2008/08/21/17/499-pinnaclecasino1.standalone.prod_affiliate.101.jpg) http://media.pressofatlanticcity.com/smedia/2008/08/21/17/499-pinnaclecasino1.standalone.prod_affiliate.101.jpg

ATLANTIC CITY - The chairman of Pinnacle Entertainment Inc. reassured New Jersey gaming regulators Thursday that his company remains serious about building a new casino, despite uncertainty about the financing and timing of the project.

Dan Lee said Pinnacle has already invested $400 million in land, design work and other expenses and is waiting for the global credit crunch to finally ease before it seeks construction financing for a megaresort that could cost "in the billions."
"We're in this thing for $400 million. We're not just going to sit on it. Something needs to be developed there," Lee told the state Casino Control Commission while giving an update on Pinnacle's plans.
Offering a glimpse of the project, Lee said the complex likely would include three hotels totaling 3,000 rooms - more than any existing Atlantic City casino. However, he provided few other details and did not say exactly when Pinnacle intends to start construction on the site of the old Sands Casino Hotel.
"It could be any time for breaking ground, from the first part of next year to a year and a half from now," he said.

Tight credit markets that have made it difficult and expensive to borrow money have put Pinnacle's project in a holding pattern. Lee said the credit crisis may actually be a "blessing in disguise" that allows Pinnacle to further refine its designs while working out the costs.

"Right now, we have conceptual designs of what we would like to build. We're going to find out shortly here how much it would cost to actually build what we've designed," he said.
Pinnacle has assembled a development site of more than 20 acres, including where the Sands stood before it was imploded last fall to make room for the proposed casino. In response to questions from the CCC, Lee stressed the company has no plans to sell the land.
"The land is not for sale," he said. "We don't have a real estate agent out there. We haven't talked to anybody about selling it."
Lee's comments to the commission seemed far more optimistic than his previous public statements about Pinnacle's plans. During a conference call in May, he put the odds of Pinnacle ever building the casino at 50-50, conceding that his company could pull out of Atlantic City if the credit crisis continued.
"Quite frankly, some of your earlier statements seemed almost doom and gloom for a fan of Atlantic City," Commissioner Michael C. Epps said to Lee. "Your statement was, 'We're not going to build until this market turns around, and maybe we won't ever build.' To hear that was a little bit off-putting.
"I'll tell you that I'm more encouraged by your comments and testimony today," Epps continued. "It seems more promising that there is a light at the end of the tunnel, wherever that tunnel is."
At the end of Lee's testimony, the commission voted 4-0 in declaring Pinnacle in compliance with New Jersey gaming regulations. The action was a preliminary finding that Pinnacle has the "good character, honesty and integrity," and financial stability to own a casino, although it has not yet obtained a New Jersey gaming license.

E-mail Donald Wittkowski: DWittkowski@pressofac.com (DWittkowski@pressofac.com)

AC11

August 22nd, 2008, 12:39 PM

I really hope you are right about Pinnacle building. I am holding out hope, but I am not yet convinced.

On another note, Harrah's is stepping up its marketing in addition to stepping up its property. Check out these four TV spots that show Harrah's is putting in their work to distinguish their property.
http://www.escapetoharrahs.info/data/index.html

American Gaming Guru

August 22nd, 2008, 12:44 PM

Oh yeah. There ads are all over NYC. They are doing a great job and it shows in their bottom line!

Intheknow

August 22nd, 2008, 01:18 PM

The airshow was excellent utilization of AC's beach and boardwalk, there should be more events of this magnitude.

Pinnacle is not building in the near future, what do you expect them to say, we have no intentions of building and we are buying up land to flip it. Lee says what the CCC wants to hear.

66nexus

August 22nd, 2008, 02:29 PM

I agree with a lot of the posts here. In regards to: AC changing a lot from times past.

Many cities did indeed slide down the bar in the last century, however, very very few of them were on top during their time the way AC was.

I do agree that weather has to do with the differences in a place like Miami versus AC (and the crowds at the Walk during the holidays weren't sparse in my memory).

But yet, AC does indeed need to, or simply should, make itself into more of a year-round place rather than a seasonal one like Six Flags

Intheknow

August 22nd, 2008, 08:04 PM

zipburn

August 23rd, 2008, 12:40 AM

Tiplitzskys opened at the Chelsea, nice to have a diner down the road. The Chelsea appears to be doing well and getting some decent reviews. I hope it works out, it's going to be tough. Now if the areas around it start to improve we'll be on our way to an improved City.

I'm sorry but your simpleton comments are idiotic at best. Show that you have something working in that dense skull of yours before you post again. Thank you very much!

Intheknow

August 23rd, 2008, 08:38 AM

I'll have you know I just finished a book.

Zippy, your personal views amuse me, please keep posting.

Let's see if Bashaw/Barr buy the Hilton.

Tiplitzkys adds to the street scape that is sorely needed, to bad you look out at the Martinque and the Flamingo hotel. You can be eating breakfast and watching "Cops" for real.

Fabrizio

August 23rd, 2008, 10:15 AM

I think it's time to clear up a couple of myths about AC that I keep hearing over and over on this thread about the decline of Atlantic City.

I lived in AC in 1971/72 and then back again in 74/75. I was young, but remember the experience quite well.

By 1974 the city was run-down, the Inlet was a place you didn't hang out, but there was really very little street crime. It was not Philadelphia. You could walk all over the place at all hours. I was young, very white... an obvious target, but I never remember being afraid. In the city proper there were no homeless and no open drug dealing and so forth. The city was run-down but still very pleasant.

In '74 we lived on Providence Avenue which was one of the most beautiful blocks in the city. The whole area was beautiful and beautifully maintained. I remember walks to the beach and all of those motels there were full of vacationers and perfectly fine.

Atlantic Avenue still had very nice businesses. The businesses on the 1700 block all had matching canopies. There were still movie theatres and even 2 movie theatres operating on the boardwalk. You have to remember: by this time, NY's TimesSquare was pretty squalid with rows of porn theatres... AC's Boardwalk was squeaky clean in comparison. AC was seedy, but Philadelphia was down right scary.

Convention hall still attracted top-notch conventions including the annual American Medical Association's convention. The grand hotels were still operating: the Dennis, Shelburne, Marlbourough Blenheim, Claridge, Chalfonte-Haddon Hall. Was there any other city in the US with such a group of hotels that were still in operation?

AC was frayed, tired, the inlet was a ghetto... "Pauline's Prarie" was still an undeveloped gaping hole up-town, but it was still a "normal" town with thousands of tourists. At that time, there was a push for casino gambling. Gambling was going to give back some of the lost luster. Most, in their ignorance, really imagined the grand old hotels with casinos in them. Most thought that Atlantic Avenue would become a fabulous shopping street again. You would hear the words "MonteCarlo".

As I remember it, AC's real decline started after the legalization of gambling. It was then that the speculation started. Buildings razed. People bought out of their homes etc. It's in that stretch of the late 70's, while casinos were being built, that AC became a series of empty lots and buildings left to rot.

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