Atlantic City Seeks New Image: Las Vegas's [Archive] - Page 9

zipburn

November 12th, 2008, 06:27 PM

Atlantic City landowner considers casino near Borgata

By MICHAEL CLARK Staff Writer, 609-272-7204

Published: Wednesday, November 12, 2008

http://media.pressofatlanticcity.com/smedia/2008/11/12/12/632-newcasinoWED.thumb.prod_affiliate.101.jpg (http://media.pressofatlanticcity.com/smedia/2008/11/12/12/867-newcasinoWED.standalone.prod_affiliate.101.jpg)

ATLANTIC CITY - A city landowner with initial plans to build a hotel near the Borgata Hotel Casino & Spa is apparently thinking bigger and bolder.

According to city officials, Realtor Rob Pagano recently requested the city rezone his 17-acre property to resort-commercial, which would allow casino construction. The Planning Board is expected to study the proposal and consider the request.
Pagano, who owns Pagano Real Estate based in Glen Rock, Bergen County, is reportedly in discussions with multinational conglomerate Triple Five Worldwide.
City Planning Director William Crane said Pagano hopes to link his 17-acre property to a portion of a triangular parcel across the street, with boundaries comprised of Huron Avenue, Brigantine Boulevard and the White Horse Pike.
Under the plan, Pagano's property would house a casino hotel and the triangular property would consist of unspecified retail development, according to city officials.

It is unclear whether Triple Five would develop the entire project.

Pagano and Stuart Bienenstock, a representative with Triple Five Worldwide, both attended a Planning and Development Committee meeting last week when the plans were discussed. However, neither returned repeated calls for comment.
Triple Five owns the Mall of America in Minnesota, the nation's largest retail complex. It also has real estate interests in Arizona, Nevada and California, plus dozens of smaller companies.
In 2004, Triple Five won a court battle with its former Mall of America business partners, according to published reports. Triple Five was awarded full control over that mall. But over the next two years, the company had to raise a billion dollars to buy out its Mall of America ex-partners.
Crane said he was under the impression that Triple Five owned the triangular parcel adjacent to Pagano's property, but he was not certain. City property records show the owner is a group called the Marina Towers Association.
That property was previously considered by planning officials for rezoning for casino development as well. However, the city refused to include the rezoning in the new master plan, essentially killing the effort.
"They would have somewhere close to 30 acres if they combined the properties," Crane said.
But joining the parcels would be a tough task, one that Crane doesn't believe is surmountable.
"It would be very difficult to link those properties because of the roadway system in between," he said.
Crane voiced the same concerns to the developers at the committee meeting, along with potential issues with the wetlands on the side of the Pagano property farthest from Huron Avenue.
Councilman Dennis Mason, who chairs the Planning and Development Committee, told the developers to address the access issues before returning to the city. The committee then forwarded the proposal to the resort's Planning Board.
Crane said the city discussed rezoning Pagano's property for casino gaming months ago, but Pagano and his company declined to engage in further talks.
"They said they weren't interested," Crane said. The potential plan continues a theme of developers' attraction with the resort's Marina District, home to the city's most successful casino and tentative plans for more gaming halls. MGM Grand has proposed building the largest casino in town on a 72-acre site also next door to the Borgata. The development is to feature three hotel towers totaling 3,000 rooms. However, the development has been delayed indefinitely because of the nation's financial crisis.

Intheknow

November 12th, 2008, 07:21 PM

Yea, Sal Pagano's going to build a casino but MGM, Pinnacle, Revel etc.. say they can't get financing. That article is so ludicrous AC officials may actually waste my tax dollars contemplating it. Stupid shit just continues in this town.

JCexpert558

November 14th, 2008, 06:30 PM

When will any of the proposed building be constructed:(

Intheknow

November 14th, 2008, 11:30 PM

Revel, Revel, Revel..... currently they are at a virtual stand still on construction. Rumor has it..and it's a big rumor, they will be announcing within 2 weeks that they got financing and they are moving forward with both towers. I personally don't believe it (since I heard it from someone other than a chair pusher) but we shall see. I hope it's true.

New Mayor- Langford. Nuff said.

blackdragon905

November 15th, 2008, 10:23 AM

Well if that rumor is true, that would be terrific news! But again, Ive learned with this AC construction that i'll believe it when I see it.

Intheknow

November 19th, 2008, 03:36 PM

Third quarter profits are down 23%. On a bright note AC is building a Holocaust museum on the boardwalk, that should brighten peoples spirits. Next up Hiroshima photo gallery.

Fabrizio

November 19th, 2008, 05:11 PM

They've already made present day AC look like Dresden after the bombings ...a nice Holocaust museum is going to fit right in.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v33/ronaldo/53-pinncalestandaloneprod_affiliate.jpg

lofter1

November 19th, 2008, 09:08 PM

Vegas has an Atomic Testing Museum (http://www.atomictestingmuseum.org/atmexptest2.html). Beats a Holocaust anyday.

And it's got a cool souvenir shop (http://www.atomictestingmuseum.org/cart/) ...

http://atomictestingmuseum.org/cart/images/DSC00007lg.jpg
Radiation Cap (http://atomictestingmuseum.org/cart/product_info.php?products_id=92): $22.00

http://atomictestingmuseum.org/cart/images/DSC00024lg.jpg
Instructional Book (http://atomictestingmuseum.org/cart/product_info.php?products_id=91) (Hardcover): $39.95

http://atomictestingmuseum.org/cart/images/DSC00136lg.jpg
Toy Soldier Set (http://atomictestingmuseum.org/cart/product_info.php?products_id=99): $3.00

http://www.atomictestingmuseum.org/images/topHeaderLogo907x65.jpg (http://www.atomictestingmuseum.org/)

Intheknow

November 19th, 2008, 09:48 PM

Now that's cool. Yet, does Vegas have medical waste washing up on it's shores?

zipburn

November 19th, 2008, 10:50 PM

"The unlined landfill contains more than 49 million cubic yards of waste, including municipal solid waste, MEDICAL WASTE, sewage sludge, hydrocarbon-contaminated soils, asbestos and construction waste.

The settlement calls for the containment structure to be completed in two years. It would prevent the release of more than 14 million pounds of contaminants each year, which include stormwater pollutants, methane gas and landfill leachate."

http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2008/aug/07/republic-pay-1-million-fines-and-36-million-fix-la/

The Las Vegas Wash used to contain over 2,000 acres of wetlands it has now been reduced to 200 acres. Wetlands thrive in warmer climates, like all other lifeforms. Don't even think of bringing up that POLITICAL-science garbage man made global warming in response.

It would be nice if we didn't have the same pictures posted again with new quips, pictures of toys sold that pitt the americans vs. the obama administration, or demented people that think what is happening in atlantic city is an isolated problem.

Fabrizio

November 20th, 2008, 03:25 AM

Zipburn: instead of complaing about what others post and trying to control the thread, why don't you try actually engaging in conversation? Every time one of your comments goes challenged you remain silent or change the subject.

LOL: Now it's the Americans vs the Obama (commies) administration. Uh... no zipburn... the Americans voted the guy in and the backward thinking, America-destroying Republican administration out. Under the Bush administration you've been given bigger government, the collapse of the American economy and billion dollar bailouts... yet the Obama administration (that isn't even in power yet) are the Communists: good one.

For you zipburn: http://www.csmonitor.com/2008/1021/p09s01-coop.html

and: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/31/business/31view.html?pagewanted=all

---

Intheknow

November 20th, 2008, 09:07 AM

Zippy, New Jersey is way more toxic than Nevada...please don't take this simple pleasure from me.

We are entering a crisis mode in AC and the nation, it's a shame AC government has yet to recognize this. Lets give the police and fire chief raises so they are one of the highest paid in the NATION! These politicians are about to get a big bite in the ass from the taxpayers, it's only a matter of time. In the end we'll all be better off, we still need to bite the economic bullet for a year or more.

zipburn

November 20th, 2008, 03:10 PM

I like engaging in conversation but I don't have the time to do it as indepth as you take it. Sorry if my responses aren't adequate for you but how can you accept articles of little to no objectivity such as the ones you presented? The one compares president's and which party they are from. JFK(a democrat) believed in tax cuts like a republican but they don't now. The article also presents no depth into what party controlled the respective houses of congress. Congress creates legislation the president only accepts or vetos the bill that he recieves. Most of Clinton's term was controlled by republicans. The last two years the economy has gone to hell in a handbasket yet some would like to believe its all BUSH but infact the democrats have sat on their hands while having the majority in both houses. The other article is a comparison of two canidates tax policies it states the tired shallow mantra of the president elect. How is it possible you give a tax cut to people who don't pay taxes? That's called welfare. When people are given something for nothing, where does the motivation to succeed go? What is the purpose of working hard and making the right decisions when you are going to be punished for being successful? Taxes stifle growth and that is a fact. Obama wants to govern with a "new deal" type approach. IMO, FDR was a horrendous president and the study below furthers my case. If you think im a diehard republican your mistaken, I believe the direction the democrat party has gone since the 43rd took office has been disgusting to say the least. The major media outlets have become overly biased towards one side and have created a new reporting style in the process; journalistic manipulation. I found this quote recently, I thought you might like it.

"We cannot expect the Americans to jump from capitalism to Communism, but we can assist their elected leaders in giving Americans small doses of socialism until they suddenly awake to find they have Communism." - Soviet Leader Nikita Khrushchev, 1959

http://newsroom.ucla.edu/portal/ucla/FDR-s-Policies-Prolonged-Depression-5409.aspx?RelNum=5409

giselehaslice

November 20th, 2008, 03:23 PM

Last Time I checked, this thread was not about Obama. Like him or loathe him, it should be on another thread.

Fabrizio

November 20th, 2008, 03:27 PM

Oh boy... well at least let me start here:

"The major media outlets have become overly biased towards one side and have created a new reporting style in the process; journalistic manipulation."

THE major media outlet in the US is Fox News. It's THE most watched and it is biased toward the Republican party. It was in the tank for McCain and demonized Obama.

Talk Radio is 95 percent conservative.

Newspaper readership might be biased toward the Dems but newspaper readership is WAY down with newspapers going out of business. The average Amercan has never read the NY Times.

AND it is the conservative media that has the loudest, most vocal and popular media stars... Rush limbaugh, Sean Hannity, Bill OReilly, Ann Coulter, Laura Ingraham etc... etc. Liberals can not compete with them.

Yes the American media is biased. It is biased toward the Republican party.

---
giselehaslice : it is all about the economy now. AC is virtually at a standstill.... so some talk about the economy and what is in store is appropriate.

Thank God we do not have McCain, Sarah Palin, Joe the Plumber and all that crap to guide us.

giselehaslice

November 20th, 2008, 03:37 PM

Okay, maybe talk about the economy is appropriate. On the other hand, Cheerleading for Obama is not appropriate. Especially in a thread primarily about development. Lets try not to make this political.

Fabrizio

November 20th, 2008, 03:49 PM

You are the one always yapping about negativity... but my being postive about the new administration and it's impact on business is inappropriate. Go figure.

Intheknow

November 20th, 2008, 06:36 PM

I've developed an attitude, does that count? Politics (national) should be avoided on this thread. It appears my prediction of less casinos in AC has a better chance of more, may come to fruition.

lofter1

November 20th, 2008, 06:50 PM

That last sentence ^ is indecipherable :confused:

Intheknow

November 20th, 2008, 07:05 PM

My M.O is indecipherability.

Many posters have been stating over the past 6 months on all the new Casinos that will be going up, while I've stated it's basically B.S. I stated in the past that AC has a better chance of losing casinos (see Sands) than gaining Casinos. Resorts and Hilton are getting close to being mothballed.

Intheknow

November 21st, 2008, 07:27 AM

F.Y.I. The current economic crisis is far from over. The full brunt won't be felt for 3-4 months. The problem is people who have been living beyond their means, housing is only a start, commercial real estate is next, then personal credit card debt. Keep your investments in cash if you can for the next 6 months.

Meanwhile AC government has yet to mention cut backs or lay offs. Typical arrogant AC Gov. thinking they are above the people and they don't have to sacrifice like the commoners. Their carefree days are numbered.

lofter1

November 21st, 2008, 10:12 AM

You think things look bad now?

Wait for January '09.

Gambling may seem like the only viable option.

JCMAN320

November 21st, 2008, 12:47 PM

I'm headin down there this weekend with my girlfriend. I'll try and take some pics and give my unbias accurate view.

Ninjahedge

November 21st, 2008, 12:48 PM

Unfortunately, t will not be "high stakes" gambling Loft. I see an increase in thnigs like betting at the track and other things from people wishing to win their own version of the lottery, but I see few people willing to spend much or travel to do so.

You get more back-yard slot machine halls and internet gambling. :(

Also, do you think those toy soldiers glow in the dark? ;)

Zip, your statements are reactionary and inflamatory. I am not saying that others do not do similar when responding, but straw manning a "Global warming" bash into your post was really bizzarre.

The surest way to get people to see a particular train of thought or argument is to tell them not to think about it. You should know this.

As for lines like "Americans versus the Obama Administration"... Holy left field batman! You were baiting and you know it. Lets try and leave unsubstantiated argumentative quips like that for other threads and preferably other websites.

Lofter posting toy soldiers is a reference to the Las Vegas museum, which was referenced by the mentioning of the Holocaust museum in AC. There was a chain of rational thought here. Yours was a blind swing. Spare us.....

Oh, in case I missed it, you know that the Smoking Ban has been put on hold for a year. Whoopie. Now depressed gamblers can go into smoke filled rooms just like in the movies. And I am sure that will save the gaming industry BILLIONS!

Intheknow

November 21st, 2008, 04:35 PM

If I owned the Hilton I would make it 100% smoke free, what do they have to lose? I'd bet business would pick up. I think this idea is to obvious to the awesome casino marketing people.

JCman if you want to score points with your girlfriend take her to boogienights at Resorts tomm. night. WARNING-You may have to dance but it is a good time and chicks dig it.

Intheknow

November 21st, 2008, 08:37 PM

The Casinos are going about this whole economic downturn in the wrong way! Massive lay-offs, less comps, less advertising.......it is dismal in these casinos.

They are still making money but they are burning bridges to save pennies, down right stupid. These guys want to run for office in AC? Dumb, stupid sons of bitches-the whole lot of Atlantic City, no wonder this city is a shit whole.

zipburn

November 22nd, 2008, 02:50 AM

Zip, your statements are reactionary and inflamatory. I am not saying that others do not do similar when responding, but straw manning a "Global warming" bash into your post was really bizzarre.

The surest way to get people to see a particular train of thought or argument is to tell them not to think about it. You should know this.

As for lines like "Americans versus the Obama Administration"... Holy left field batman! You were baiting and you know it. Lets try and leave unsubstantiated argumentative quips like that for other threads and preferably other websites.

Lofter posting toy soldiers is a reference to the Las Vegas museum, which was referenced by the mentioning of the Holocaust museum in AC. There was a chain of rational thought here. Yours was a blind swing. Spare us.....

Oh, in case I missed it, you know that the Smoking Ban has been put on hold for a year. Whoopie. Now depressed gamblers can go into smoke filled rooms just like in the movies. And I am sure that will save the gaming industry BILLIONS!

With regards to the Global Warming "quip", I am seriously tired of having full blown ignorance shoved in my face. I was just trying to stop any environmental clown from posting on this board.

Sorry for the Obama comment, I know it isn't for here but to see the utter ignorance displayed by masses of people is down right depressing. This new administration will hurt Atlantic City.

"universal healthcare", sorry that isn't a blind swing its more like playing slow-pitch softball.

Atlantic City could easily pitch non-smoking to their advantage and I am all for it. It was nice the past week or so when I didn't have that shit blown in my face. But the problem with these liberal policies is that they actually, hurt business, not help.

When did an anti-war protest save innocent people from crimes against humanity? When did taxing a business increase profits? When did giving illegal immigrants amnesty, increase wages for Americans? When did abolishing the death penalty save the prison guards life? When did a union benefit others on the same job?

Thats right, NEVER!

Fabrizio

November 22nd, 2008, 03:37 AM

Zipburn: you write like you truly want the US to become a 3rd world country. Your mentality explains why the only gains made by the Republican party in this election were in places like Arkansas, Alabama, Tennessee and Appalacia!

And explain to us why Obama was endorsed by: The Economist, The Financial Times, BusinessWeek, Paul Volker, William Buffet, The Wall Street Journal (does not officially endorse candidates, but made their choice clear) and etc?

--

lofter1

November 22nd, 2008, 10:13 AM

When did a sore loser ever generate good will?

I think we all know the answer ...

Intheknow

November 22nd, 2008, 01:40 PM

Does anyone think Longport, Margate, Ventnor, Ocean City, Wildwood etc.. is going to suffer as bad as Atlantic City? I don't. It's going to get alot, and I mean alot worse for Atlantic City. Camden might look better in 2 years time.

giselehaslice

November 22nd, 2008, 03:39 PM

^Thats was an extremely educated thing to say. Not to mention very meaningful.

Intheknow

November 22nd, 2008, 04:39 PM

^Still an imbecile I see. Wow, giasael all this development that you predicted 6, 5, 4 ..months ago is just booming. Revenues and profits are soaring, employment is above 100%, it's so clean now, the Pier is booming, restaurants are packed, the jet set has arrived, the weekend spot to be in, new Casinos are sprouting up all over town. Well AC does have a new image just not the one they wanted. Any more predictions boy wonder?

giselehaslice

November 22nd, 2008, 07:24 PM

IKthuhKnaw, Maybe development is slow, but do you see anywhere in the country that has a booming construction sector right now? It's not limited to AC.

The reason for my previous comment is to point out how shallow minded your posts are. There is no way in the universe that places like Wildwood and Ocean City are going to make more money than AC this winter. Most places in those towns are seasonal, while AC businesses (restaurants, stores) are open year round. Can you make money while you're closed? Even a pre-schooler would know the answer to this.

Intheknow

November 22nd, 2008, 08:05 PM

Ummmm...I'm talking long term health of a city. Ocean City etc... will do well for the WHOLE fiscal year. AC is slowly dying, look at the numbers. The only numbers you have to look at are Casino numbers because that's all AC offers. The Casinos are depressing for the workers and the customers this is bad because it will feed on itself and continue to get worse. Watch and see.

Look for me out and about tonight I'll buy you a drink from a bartender that doesn't know if he'll have a job after tonight.

giselehaslice

November 22nd, 2008, 09:45 PM

Okay! I'll take a bottle of Leblon Cachaca at Mur.mur.

zipburn

November 22nd, 2008, 11:20 PM

The pier is losing three shops, but business the past two days has been very, very good. November is shaping up to be a decent month, although numbers might be hurting in the finally tally because of Colony Capitals pull back. MLK's real birthday might be the end of their layoffs and they will start to get aggressive on the market. The Asians are supplying the Hilton's major source. If they didn't lift the smoking ban, where by the majority of the asians smoke, the Hilton could have been in really big trouble. They will look to increase the size of their asian gaming area. Town has been busy every weekend so far and moderate business during the week. It is looking alot better then last month as both friday and saturdays are booming rather than just sat. like last month. Revel is still trucking along, as mentioned before MS has the backing to finance on their own, I expect it to completed with or without another financier. Finally to say Atlantic City will be the next Camden is f'n ridiculous. There are smaller projects that are still going and will be completed and a two billion dollar casino is still going up.

Intheknow

November 23rd, 2008, 09:37 AM

I said Camden might look better in two years.

Look at AC now-the City. Now look at the falling tax dollars and Casino funds. If the City looks like hell now what will less money into the system do for it? There is a real danger, if a few Casinos close, that this City can spiral into the abyss. The chain of events don't bode well for the future of this city, local government is still the same, the beach and boardwalk are deteriorating, the empty lots are expanding, unemployment is up, the Casinos have yet to adapt to competition......and the AC government has yet to even discuss any of these concerns. The magic fairy isn't going to save AC, PEOPLE, Businesses, and local Government must do something and I have yet to witness any attempt at change the same old status quo.

Fabrizio

November 23rd, 2008, 11:12 AM

And get more Asians into the Hilton fast.... !

-----
Financial problems hit Resorts
By DONALD WITTKOWSKI Staff Writer, 609-272-7258
Published: Saturday, November 22, 2008

ATLANTIC CITY - Investment firm Colony Capital LLC appeared to get a steal when it bought Resorts Atlantic City in 2001 for $140 million - less than half of what was paid by the casino's previous owner. Seven years later, the Resorts deal isn't looking so sweet. Atlantic City's oldest casino is losing money, falling behind on its debt payments and prompting speculation about possible bankruptcy as it struggles in the lousy economy.

"There's not an industry in the country that has been immune to this economic decline or downturn," company spokesman Alan C. Marcus said.

Resorts' balance sheet reveals a net loss of $22.2 million so far this year. The company is saddled with $360 million in debt and has burned through $17 million in cash in the last nine months. Resorts disclosed this week it failed to make an interest payment this month and is in negotiations with a lender. Dennis M. Farrell Jr., a gaming analyst for Wachovia Capital Markets, said the casino's weak operating performance has only magnified its heavy debt. He said Resorts may be heading for a bankruptcy restructuring unless parent company Colony Capital provides a cash infusion.

"Unless the property owners put in more cash, it's going to be difficult for the property to remain out of restructuring," Farrell said. "But it doesn't mean they would have to shut down the property, though. They could still keep the property going."

As ominous as bankruptcy may sound, Atlantic City's 30-year casino history is replete with gaming companies that reorganized their finances through Chapter 11. Resorts weathered two bankruptcies after entertainer Merv Griffin took over the casino in the 1980s. Farrell noted that lenders prefer to keep a casino open during bankruptcy reorganization for cash flow to pay the bills.

Resorts was the city's first casino, opening May 26, 1978. First owned by Resorts International Inc., the casino came under Griffin's control in 1988. Sun International Hotels Ltd. bought Resorts from Griffin in 1996 for $301 million. Sun unloaded the struggling property to Colony Capital five years later for $140 million. Colony, a real estate investment company based in Los Angeles, updated the aging casino with a new $125 million, 400-room hotel tower in 2004.

But these days, the faltering economy and Atlantic City's casino slump have combined to put intense pressure on Resorts. Farrell said if the company restructures, a sale is one possible outcome. Particularly worrisome is Resorts' high debt load, which is about six times the average rate of the large casino companies, Farrell stated. Financial statements indicate the casino's cash flow simply is too little to serve the interest payments on its debt.

"With the current debt burden and weak operating cash flow over the last 12 months, the ability to make their interest payments is going to be very difficult. I just don't see how they can continue at the current pace," Farrell said.

Resorts said this week in a regulatory filing that it was unable to make its monthly interest payment due Nov. 7 because of the "extreme impact of the current economic conditions." It did not divulge the amount of the payment, but said it is in negotiations with its lender, Column Financial Inc., to resolve the problem.

Marcus, the casino spokesman, said the privately held company would not discuss its finances. Nicholas L. Ribis, the company's vice chairman and chief executive officer, also declined to comment Friday. "I really don't care about rumors. I just run my business," Ribis said, referring all questions to his public relations staff.

The Casino Control Commission, the state agency that regulates Atlantic City's gaming industry, approved a new five-year license for Resorts in January despite concerns about its financial forecasts. "With the problems you've had with your previous forecasts, why should we have confidence in your future forecasts?" Commissioner Michael A. Fedorko pointedly asked company officials during the licensing hearing.

The commission continues to keep an eye on Resorts, as well as its struggling sister property, the Atlantic City Hilton Casino Resort, which is also owned by Colony Capital. "We have been monitoring their financial condition for some time," commission spokesman Daniel Heneghan said of Resorts. "There has been regular communication back and forth between our staff and them on their financial situation."

Resorts and Hilton have been the worst performers this year among Atlantic City's 11 casinos. Through the first nine months, Resorts' gross operating profits are down 60.5 percent, while the Hilton's are off 59.8 percent.

blackdragon905

November 23rd, 2008, 05:25 PM

Gateway LLC Project Postponed. No surprise here.

http://www.atlanticcitytripping.com/cityboom/post.php?p=46

Ninjahedge

November 24th, 2008, 09:28 AM

With regards to the Global Warming "quip", I am seriously tired of having full blown ignorance shoved in my face. I was just trying to stop any environmental clown from posting on this board.

Well I hope you don't have anything against Abortion!!!! :rolleyes:

Sorry for the Obama comment, I know it isn't for here but to see the utter ignorance displayed by masses of people is down right depressing. This new administration will hurt Atlantic City.

You have to be more specific on that. I don't see where his admin will be directly detrimental to the businesses down there. After all, their primary customer IS the middle class....

"universal health care", sorry that isn't a blind swing its more like playing slow-pitch softball.

No. Not really. You tried to bash a post by saying it had nothing to do with the thread, kind of a way to validate your own non sequitors, and it was a blind swing. No slow-pitch, no T-ball, no Global Warming! ;)

Atlantic City could easily pitch non-smoking to their advantage and I am all for it. It was nice the past week or so when I didn't have that shit blown in my face.

You should have stopped there.

But the problem with these liberal policies is that they actually, hurt business, not help.

Again with the blind swing. "Liberal" is not a curse word. Its outright definition is a willingness to accept alternate ideas and propositions. Conservative means "leave it the way it is, no change" which in some cases work.

But implying that the liberals are going to burn AC is just a bit overblown.

When did an anti-war protest save innocent people from crimes against humanity?

When those crimes were committed by the aggressor and the aggressor listened to the protests and limited or eliminated their actions.

What would have happened if we stayed in Viet Nam a few more years?

When did taxing a business increase profits?

When was this ever an issue. When WERE businesses taxed, in the US, without some gerrymandered loophole that allowed them to get out of paying?

Flat tax. Eliminate all these abused loopholes.

When did giving illegal immigrants amnesty, increase wages for Americans?

When those illegals became legals and could not, legally, accept wages below minimum. When they are hiding from the law, employers can abuse that.

When did abolishing the death penalty save the prison guards life?

What do the two have to do with each other?

When did a union benefit others on the same job?

When my father was laid off for 9 months with 3 kids and the plumbing union kept him insured. And don't even get me started with Teachers.

Thats right, NEVER!

Wrong. Man you need to get out more.

Also, 90% of your post there had NOTHING TO DO WITH AC!!!!!!

STRAW MAN.

zipburn

November 24th, 2008, 07:54 PM

I'm sorry but I am in and around Atlantic City every day, I see when the Local 54 union goes on strike and destroys business all around town, shuts down main streets in the process causing pain for everyone that isn't part of their unskilled labor union. It's sad to see the spray paint that continues to grow in the city with foriegn gang symbols. It's sad to see how nice buildings that were well mantained only a couple years ago are now decreasing in number because they house illegals. It's also quite disturbing how many illegals are in the Local 54 union. I see when the unions that control the convention center turn away business with their shakedown-style pricing. Atlantic City relies heavy on convention business. Unions handcuff the ability of a business to adapt, which can been seen in current day problems, ie. southwest, compared to other airlines, foriegn, non-union car manufacturers compared to Ford, GM. With all due respect to your response, so your saying your fathers three kids were working that same job too but were non-union? All kids are covered under the schip anyway so that was a mute point. The state horse racing industry "gives it to" the casinos with their state funded champion Dick Codey, so his brother can profit. How many times have the casinos had to bend over backwards, to thwart proposed increases in the casino-tax? Or other type fees?

My last post was more of a rant then anything but with regards, to abolishing the death penalty. If a prisoner is going to spend the rest of their life in jail anyway, there is no further punishment if they kill a guard, prisoner or anyone else for that matter. Thats how they are one in the same.

I'm going to get back to AC Development issues only. There are somethings we will never agree on and it is silly to go back and forth like this. It is my fault for veering off course and if you want call me a "strawman", I don't really care.

Fabrizio

November 24th, 2008, 08:05 PM

I agree with you about about out of control unions.... that's one reason why the US needs universal health care, required vacations, pensions etc. It should be automatic and provided by the gov... allowing business to prosper. That's one reason why the European and Japanese auto industry is healthy (and would be even with out production in the US). Their governments provide these things. If the US behaved this way, instead of spending billions on Iraqi's (wow, they have the right to vote... do you really give a crap?) and bailing out businesses and instead spent it on American citizens and infrastructure...the US would be in much better shape. (And yes illegal immigrants are a real prob and the US borders should be given strict control.)

--

Intheknow

November 24th, 2008, 08:44 PM

If we didn't have unions Mexicans would have built AC. If there were no unions with decent wages and benefits hard working men and women would not be able to spend their hard earned money on cars, houses, etc... The unions have been asking for to much lately and the workmanship has decreased (according to my project manager friends) but I'd rather have a union carpenter build me a house over an untrained Mexican.

Name me on illegal in local 54. It ain't going to happen.

Back to AC, mucho layoffs in Casino industry continue. Less workers equals less business for local community-renters, groceries, etc...The downward spiral is getting worse with no action by Casinos or Local Government.

Adios for now Zippy. I have to go tag some clean walls.

AC11

November 25th, 2008, 11:15 AM

acplayer

November 25th, 2008, 07:50 PM

BC (before casinos)
http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh72/acplayerr/acbrightonhotel.jpg
After
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v33/ronaldo/53-pinncalestandaloneprod_affiliate.jpg

acplayer

November 25th, 2008, 08:40 PM

The Flanders Hotel on St. James Place

Before (1954)
http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh72/acplayerr/acflandersroofgarden1954.jpg

After (2008)
http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh72/acplayerr/IMG_0341.jpg

Intheknow

November 25th, 2008, 09:07 PM

I wonder what it will look like AC (After casinos). I don't think the Tropicana will sell. Today the CEO of Borgata resigned to work in Australia, what does this tell you? I'm being brutally honest this City is deteriorating faster than ever, thank God my investment won't bankrupt me, I've already wriitten it off as a bad mistake.

Ventnor is moving right along with re-decking of their boardwalk should be done by April (todays Press).

I have yet to see or hear how the Casinos are going to deal with the economic downturn and increased competition, besides lay-offs, less promotion, tighter slots,etc.. a truely pathetic response. They are killing themselves.

The only people on the boardwalk nowadays are bums, give me two weeks and you wouldn't see them again.

Where's AGG been? Macau?

It would take about 1,000 dollars and one day to restore that Flanders deck. How did you get that current picture?

zipburn

November 25th, 2008, 11:18 PM

Trop lost its appeal. Great news. Now the sale can finally go forward. Cordish will get it for $700m if no one else bids on it, which seems unlikely in this economic climate. The only company with the cash to bid is Penn National, and I doubt they want the trop. They have their eyes on other properties in the city.

This is great news for the Tropicana and the City! I don't know that the new management of Tropicana Ent. would have been bad but based on what that company did to that place during its short stint here has ruined mine and many others perception of that company. Cordish and Gomes are likely the new owners, if all goes right. Proven management, one in gaming the other in retail.

66nexus

November 26th, 2008, 01:12 AM

That Flanders hotel looks pretty intact (at least from the outside). When did it close?

ps: land owners should be required to at least put simple parks on demolished land to reduce open-land blight.

acplayer

November 26th, 2008, 01:48 AM

The Flanders is for sale and a realtor showed me it earlier in the year. They're asking around $3 million (they'd take less). It needs a lot of work and money (a lot more than $1000 for the roof deck). It has character, is on a beach block with ocean views, so much potential (just like the rest of A.C.) but with the current economic market, the costs involved and most importantly, the local government & community (or lack there of), doesn't make it feasible.

Flanders Hotel today
http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh72/acplayerr/acflandershotelstreet.jpg
As it was...
http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh72/acplayerr/acflandershotel.jpg
Interior shot
http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh72/acplayerr/IMG_0321.jpg
View from the roof
http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh72/acplayerr/IMG_0336.jpg

Fabrizio

November 26th, 2008, 04:00 AM

As I mentioned here once before, St James place, still at the time of the legalization of gambling, was one of the most beautiful blocks anywhere. I would go out of my way to walk down it.

If a block like that had been landmarked, today it would be a showplace.

That block was no different... actually nicer ...than blocks in the Art Deco district of Miami. They did it... what a shame AC did not. You need laws, and regulations guiding development. The casinos, let to their own devices, combined with a corrupt inept government have reduced AC to what it is today.

There is a LOT of myth making and rewriting of history about the condition of AC in the 1970's. The truth is: in the tourist areas and it's nice residential areas, it was still splended looking.

While the Boardwalk had the grand hotels, the side streets also had beautiful places like the Flanders, the Seaside, the Senator as well as grand rooming houses in Victorian style as you still find today in CapeMay and Ocean City.

AC should be a CITY with casinos.... not a PRARIE with casinos.

So now there is an economic turn-down.... and what have you got?

A question for the studio audience: look at that photo above. That is the center of town, in the thick of things, and it's representative of much of AC. Would you want to vacation in a place that looks like that?

Another observation: Cape May and South Beach instituted landmarking and design laws in the mid-1970's and look at them today.

In todays AC, an investor would be nuts to restore the Flanders. Even if the place were the most beautiful boutique hotel in the world, who would want to stay in a place surrounded by parking lots, broken sidewalks, empty fields with clumps of grass, parking for buses, trash dumpsters.... just look at that photo above. In 1976 it was dense with buildings and businesses... and today? Say what you want: to my eyes that's Camden.

--

Intheknow

November 26th, 2008, 06:52 AM

It's a cryin' shame, almost criminal.

Fabrizio

November 26th, 2008, 08:35 AM

Look at those sidewalks. One would expect to see donkeys and camels walking down those streets.

Meanwhile the US gov. has no problem spending billions and billions of your money rebuilding cities in Iraq.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_Relief_and_Reconstruction_Fund

--

lofter1

November 26th, 2008, 10:25 AM

What a Dump.

AC11

November 26th, 2008, 10:37 AM

That is really sad about the flanders. What could have been.

Here is a shot of the walkway to the boardwalk from the Brighton Hotel.
http://tbn0.google.com/hosted/images/c?q=653bdb85d1c9e9a2_large

Intheknow

November 26th, 2008, 10:02 PM

Where as Atlantic City used to be featured in Life Magazine it is now featured on HBO special "Hookers on the street". We've really come along way.

It appears the City and the Casinos have given up, it's the biggest party night of the year and the city is dead. Their isn't any advertising, specials, etc... very pathetic.

zipburn

November 27th, 2008, 03:30 PM

If you understood why its the biggest party night of the year, you would see why the casinos would be wasting their time. They did advertise though.

Intheknow

November 27th, 2008, 11:44 PM

So what's their excuse for not advertising this weekend?

Stroika

November 28th, 2008, 06:21 PM

That shot of AC was pretty god-awful. I've never been to AC, but had been planning on going there at some point next summer. Not any more.

What's really sad is if you look at all the cheaply built stucco/concrete Marriott Courtyards or Days Inns or whatever crappy hotels there are. All with the architectural sophistication and interest for the passerby of a rectangle drawn in pencil on paper -- typical post-Internationalist Style junk. But what's really sad is that many of the hotels in the pics of AC shoot 25 or so stories up. If those buildings had been cut off at 8 stories, you could cover all the vacant lots hotels that would cater to the demand that seems to be there (to fill the 25-story hotels). But instead of densely built mid-rise hotels, I guess AC went with a handful of (ugly, cheap-o, 1980s) highrises and massive parking wastelands in between.

Bravo.

Fabrizio

November 28th, 2008, 06:30 PM

Stroika: that shot btw is not an exception. Much of the city looks that way. In 30 years it has gone from a being a beautiful but run down place to being an ugly, very run down place. I can't think of the center of any city in the US that looks as weird as AC.

--

zipburn

November 28th, 2008, 11:40 PM

actually those pics highlight one of the worst parts of the city, i believe thats why the flanders is in the shape it is today... same with the quaker(?) building bordering pacific, if there was any use for the flanders today it would be as an apartment building..

acplayer

November 30th, 2008, 04:29 AM

For decades A.C. had it all. I think maybe one of the worst downward spirals of any city anywhere, what has happened to A.C. since the early 1960s should be a must read for urban and city planners to learn what not to do.

The Brighton used to be on Pinnacles vacant lot.
http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh72/acplayerr/acbrightonhoteljuly1941.jpg

Steel Pier 1941
http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh72/acplayerr/acsteelpierentrancejuly1941.jpg

Fabrizio

November 30th, 2008, 05:23 AM

ACplayer: it should be pointed out that the downward slide of AC from, let's say, 1960 to the late 70's was pretty much in the norm for NEast cities ...but at least AC was intact. AC had a ghetto area that was contained and a large area cleared for urban renewal up toward the inlet, but the tourist areas looked pretty much as they always did.

The bombed out, desolate, abandoned look happened from the late 70's, early 80's onward.

Thanks for that photo of the Brighton. Note the gentility.

Besdes the blight of another huge empty lot, the once classy area of Brighton Park is also marred by that ridiculous Korean War monument ... it looks like a urinal... and that stupid thingy with the columns. Why on earth did they build that? At least the atrocious elevated walkway built for the Sands was torn down too. The taste level in today's AC is in the resident's, Casino operator's and local government's ass.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v33/ronaldo/Immagine9.png

--

Intheknow

November 30th, 2008, 10:20 AM

I went by the Flanders at dusk last night. It just is sitting there rotting away, windows wide open, boarded up, graffitti marred. The "neighborhood" is desolate, how can you have such a desolate area in a City so small? It was downright nasty and depressing. The only sole around was a crippled prostitute who propositioned me. Ah, Atlantic City!

Fabrizio

November 30th, 2008, 10:33 AM

Prostitutes BC (before casinos) :

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v33/ronaldo/0000-0726-4Pennsylvania-Railroad-At.jpg

Fabrizio

November 30th, 2008, 01:04 PM

Trump's Atlantic City casinos to miss bond payment
By DONALD WITTKOWSKI Staff Writer
Published: Saturday, November 29, 2008

ATLANTIC CITY - In another sign of Atlantic City's casino slump, Trump Entertainment Resorts Inc. said Friday it will delay making a $53.1 million bond interest payment as it looks to conserve cash. The company plans to use a 30-day grace period for making the payment, which is due Monday. It will now have extra time to negotiate with lenders on ways to restructure its finances.

The company has formed a special committee of independent directors to oversee the talks. However, it warned there is no guarantee that a restructuring deal will be reached. "During this period, the company and the issuers intend to pursue discussions with their lenders to restructure the company's capital structure, improve liquidity and create a platform to grow and diversify the company's business," Trump Entertainment said in a statement.

The bond interest payment is part of nearly $1.25 billion of Trump debt. If the company fails to make the interest payment within the grace period, holders of 25 percent of the outstanding principal of the bond will be able to accelerate the maturity of the notes. Further, the lenders for a $490 million Trump loan would be able to accelerate payment of the debt, the statement said.

The company, headed by Donald Trump, operates the Trump Taj Mahal Casino Resort, Trump Plaza Hotel and Casino and Trump Marina Hotel Casino. It has reached a tentative deal to sell the troubled Trump Marina for $270 million to the New York gaming group Coastal Marina LLC.

Trump Entertainment is the second Atlantic City casino operator to disclose recently that it is falling behind on its debt payments. Resorts Atlantic City said in a regulatory filing last week that it was unable to make a monthly interest payment due Nov. 7 because of the "extreme impact of the current economic conditions." Resorts did not divulge the amount of the payment, but said it is in negotiations with its lender to resolve the problem.

Atlantic City's gaming industry has been battered by the weak economy and intense competition from Pennsylvania's slot parlors. The 11 casinos collectively lost $78.5 million in the third quarter and have seen gaming revenue slip 6.6 percent in the first 10 months this year.

---

So now let's see... AC has been in the gambling bizz for 30 years... it's got a beach, a boardwalk and so on and so forth ...but it's being battered by intense competition from Pennsylvania's Indian slot parlors? Just amazing.

---

Fabrizio

December 1st, 2008, 12:57 PM

Some more interesting photos of AC during it's glory years:

An "uptown" shot of the Boardwalk with the St. Charles and the Breakers on the left. The St.Charles looks like it was imported directly from 5th Avenue:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v33/ronaldo/1940s-2B-1941-09-01-6458.jpg

In fact it reminds me of NY's St.Regis.... imagine if it still existed and was lit like this:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v33/ronaldo/description.jpg

(of course the Dennis could be lit like that, but in AC they paint historic hotels blue.)

---

A shot of the Miss America parade. Note the sign for Blatt's Dept Store on Atlantic Avenue: "Nine floors of famous brands" Nine Floors!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v33/ronaldo/1950s-5B-1950s-18357.jpg

----

Before the Central Pier became the dump that it is today. Note at the end of the pier...a modern suburban homes exibit:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v33/ronaldo/1950s-6B-1951-07-04-10769.jpg

acplayer

December 1st, 2008, 05:29 PM

Great photos Fabrizio, keep them coming. The key difference between now and A.C.'s past is the community and leadership. Back then you had a community and competent leaders, that although corrupt, genuinely cared about the city as compared to now where you have unqualified corrupt leaders and a community that only care about what's in it for them and could care less about the city.

The Mayor and ladies in 1941
http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh72/acplayerr/acmissamericamayor1941.jpg

Todays Councilman Marty $mall
http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh72/acplayerr/acmartysmallplayazball2008.jpg

Intheknow

December 1st, 2008, 06:48 PM

Atlantic City is a disaster. All these other cities adding gambling is a very big mistake on their part, just look at Atlantic Ctiy, is it really worth the tax monies? Look at ACs budget-200 million for a city of 47,000!!!! The only "nice" parts of the City today are the 11 casinos er...boxes. The rest is just ghetto, sorry to say. Look at the Bella Condos that recently went up-high-end, luxury, but its in the miiddle of a ghetto, no wonder they can't give them away. You pay 500k-1 million bucks for a unit and your afraid to walk outside. The people in this city just don't get it, and they continue down the same old disaterous path, decade after decade.

I see very rough roads ahead for these Casinos in AC. BTW the Revel site looks like the same old, same old. The parking garage is going up fast and takes up more than half a beach block-good use of land! I can go for a Ballantine or 3.

zipburn

December 2nd, 2008, 01:06 AM

Like the photos... acplayer and fabrizio, what happened to the st. charles? I wish there were more buildings like that saved..what street was that on? By the way expect nov. numbers to be sort of a positive suprise...compared to what has been put out lately..wed-thurs were as dead as i have ever seen it during those two days but the fri-sun was like the good old days even the hilton was packed.....pretty strong month for the state of the nation right now

Fabrizio

December 2nd, 2008, 02:59 AM

acplayer: that's hilarious... I started my day in the office with a good laugh.

Intheknow

December 2nd, 2008, 08:26 AM

Next to be demolished Garden Pier, by Revel. Keep up the good work boys! Nice parking garage your putting up, can it get any better?

AC11

December 2nd, 2008, 06:44 PM

Atlantic Palace to close. Burberry not long for the pier.

Fabrizio

December 2nd, 2008, 08:04 PM

Atlantic Palace? Anymore info on that? Sources?

Intheknow

December 2nd, 2008, 09:41 PM

It's getting uglier by the day, this City could concievably ..........become more of a ghetto.

zipburn

December 2nd, 2008, 11:20 PM

Next to be demolished Garden Pier, by Revel. Keep up the good work boys! Nice parking garage your putting up, can it get any better?

I guess the water fountain will be demolished, there goes my family's architectual contribution to the city, albeit small.

Seriously can you stop with the parking garage crap? Do you want people to park on the side streets? I mean they are enclosing it as much as possible. Its like complaining about the how its dark out during night time.

lofter1

December 3rd, 2008, 12:23 AM

Nightime is a natural occurance.

Hulking parking structures are crud.

Give it up. In its current configuration AC is pointless and offers little if anything of value. It shall wither.

zipburn

December 3rd, 2008, 12:48 AM

Nightime is a natural occurance.

Hulking parking structures are crud.

Give it up. In its current configuration AC is pointless and offers little if anything of value. It shall wither.

It mean it in the way that the sun is going to come up in the morning.... and it will no longer be dark out. Bitching about a project before its finished is beyond stupid....

I guess it offers as much value as your posts on this topic?

Intheknow

December 3rd, 2008, 06:17 AM

I know when it's dark out because half the lights on the boardwalk are out. Wasn't our hero Pinky going to take care of this two months ago?

Fabrizio

December 3rd, 2008, 08:19 AM

Bitching about a project before its finished is beyond stupid....

Zipburn: obviously you are unfamiliar with this forum and unfamiliar with what citizens do in more evolved communities: they take an interest in what is being built and do judge the impact of buildings from designs and renderings... before they are built.

You can start by going over the threads here about the project for the Freedom Tower and the new WorldTradeCenter, for instance. You will find, to your surprise, posts by forum members ...as well as links to articles by critics, urban planners, citizens... all voicing ideas on the various proposals. It is done all the time.

In a down-trodden place like AC, were the average IQ is below sea-level, the populace is stupid enough to gleefully take what ever any developer proposes: no questions asked.

lofter1

December 3rd, 2008, 09:59 AM

Here's a bright spot: At least those new enclosed parking structures will offer a protected living alternative to the newly-homeless AC residents. Far better than trying to camp out under the boardwalk or on newly-cleared lots during the cold of winter.

JCMAN320

December 3rd, 2008, 12:04 PM

Zipburn: obviously you are unfamiliar with this forum and unfamiliar with what citizens do in more evolved communities: they take an interest in what is being built and do judge the impact of buildings from designs and renderings... before they are built.

You can start by going over the threads here about the project for the Freedom Tower and the new WorldTradeCenter, for instance. You will find, to your surprise, posts by forum members ...as well as links to articles by critics, urban planners, citizens... all voicing ideas on the various proposals. It is done all the time.

In a down-trodden place like AC, were the average IQ is below sea-level, the populace is stupid enough to gleefully take what ever any developer proposes: no questions asked.

Do you know how much of an arrogant prick you are? Who the hell are you to brush the entire population of AC with such a broad stroke? I have seen cities in far worse shape than AC; Indianapolis, Miami, Cleveland, etc... I was in AC two weekends ago, and by the way I can dance and had a great time with my girl and our friends. I absolutely loved it. Of course we saw the inlet and the most run down section of Northern Atlantic Ave., it reminded me of parts of Miami and Homestead. I had a great time at the Walk and enjoyed the Boardwalk. We stayed in Harrahs, the new Waterfront tower..awesome!!!!.......and partyed at the Pool nightclub. We went all over town and had great time.

zipburn

December 3rd, 2008, 12:07 PM

Intheknow

December 3rd, 2008, 01:21 PM

The finished product of parking garage will look exactly like Tropicanas garage on Morris Ave. except it will be on beachblock. If your walking North on Boardwalk all you see is this ugly ass parking structure taking up and blocking off a the whole beach block. These developers just aren't getting the whole street accessability idea. Over 2 BILLION dollars and this is what they are constructing!! If I was an investor I wouldn't give Revel another dime, I'd let the project rot for two years and then buy it cheap.

Fabrizio

December 3rd, 2008, 02:36 PM

JCMAN: my comments have nothing to do with the good time you had in AC.

Besides more beach block Chinese-walled parking garages, the Revel will give us this bit of sea-side fun and first-class Boardwalk vista :

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v33/ronaldo/Revel-Exterior1.jpg

The least they could do is add a Hooters style topless toll booth.

giselehaslice

December 3rd, 2008, 03:15 PM

Fabrizio, you might not agree with the design component of the project, but to basically call it trash is not appropriate. If it were trashy (aka schiff's pier), then you could make the hooters remark. Fortunatley this project will be upscale, and a good addition to the city -- if theres a road on the boardwalk or not.

Intheknow, you have said so many offensive things, not to mention rediculous and obviously fake attempts to try to bring the city down yourself, that your posts now mean almost nothing. Mush means more than your posts. So, if you are going to post, please make it educated and try not to sound like the stupid city councelors that you are always complaining about. KTHXBYE.

Intheknow

December 3rd, 2008, 03:44 PM

Yes, all my fake attempts are bringing this city down along with the Casino revenues, more empty lots (all my fault), closed portion of boardwalk, graffitti, bums, lack of police presence, corruption, broken promises-see Pinnacle, MGM, AC Gateway, Dunes, etc.... if you think this city is doing a good job you have very low expectations. Lets spend another 2-3 billion that will cure everything. Revel is another wasted opportunity in utilizing the beach and boardwalk, which to me is just plain stupid on the part of the developers and the city.

This City can't even fix the lights on the boardwalk for Chris' sake. I could have done it myself by now.

giselehaslice

December 3rd, 2008, 04:30 PM

Okay. That post confirms everything most people think about you. Thanks!

zipburn

December 3rd, 2008, 04:43 PM

Intheknow

December 3rd, 2008, 04:48 PM

You must have me mistaken for someone who cares what people think of me, go rent a room at the New Chelsea "lite" oops it's still not open, oh well you can get a room at Chelsea Luxe for about $70.00. While you are there sell some gold across the street, buy a "40" and a five dollar hooker, all this is available in the shadow of the "new" AC hotel. Now that's a fun night out in AC.

lofter1

December 3rd, 2008, 07:57 PM

Five bucks a pop? And the town isn't teeming with visitors?

What's up with that?

Intheknow

December 3rd, 2008, 08:41 PM

Actually, with the economy you could probably jew them down to $3.50.

scumonkey

December 3rd, 2008, 08:43 PM

Isn't the "J" supposed to be capitalized:cool:

Intheknow

December 3rd, 2008, 08:59 PM

Only during the jewish holidays. The hookers give deep discounts during Ramadan.

Intheknow

December 3rd, 2008, 09:35 PM

In all honesty, even the hookers in AC are third class. Your'e better off in camden.

lofter1

December 3rd, 2008, 10:04 PM

Wow. No wonder AC is in the toilet.

What's the point of winning a jackpot if you can't find a hot hooker to share it with?

zipburn

December 4th, 2008, 01:16 AM

In all honesty, even the hookers in AC are third class. Your'e better off in camden.

guy doesn't even know where to find the good hookers...i think its time for a name change

Intheknow

December 4th, 2008, 07:57 AM

One thing I do know is that 5 casinos will probably seek bankruptcy in '09. That's almost half the Casinos in town!!

I also know the north end of Boardwalk is still closed and lighting on boardwalk has yet to be repaired. Also, more Casino employees are getiing laid off today while City government will add jobs.

Fabrizio

December 4th, 2008, 12:08 PM

Today's Press:

Atlantic City casinos cut 1,000 jobs in November
By DONALD WITTKOWSKI

ATLANTIC CITY - Casino employment fell to its lowest level in 20 years last month as the gaming industry slashed nearly 1,000 jobs to offset declining revenue caused by the economic crisis and competition from Pennsylvania's slot parlors.

With the latest round of job cuts in November, the casino work force has shrunk to 39,137 employees, the first time since early 1988 it has dropped below 40,000. Employment peaked at 51,560 workers in July 1997, according to the New Jersey Casino Control Commission. The closing of the Sands Casino Hotel in 2006 cost 2,200 jobs.

Borgata Hotel Casino & Spa had the sharpest reduction in its work force in November, cutting 430 jobs in its first mass layoff since the Las Vegas-style megaresort opened in 2003.

Complete article:http://www.pressofatlanticcity.com/186/story/335433.html

giselehaslice

December 4th, 2008, 03:31 PM

I just cannot wait until all of these god awful casinos shut down and make this town even more dead. I just love the look of decaying buildings, and really just want to see everything and anything in this town fail. I have nothing better to do than post 15 times per day how much uglier this city is looking every second. God, I just hope that maybe one day Atlantic City will sink... just wash off the face of the earth, and all the scum residents go down with it. Revel just apparently collapsed (shoddy construction, eh?) and since the ground shook so much with the weight of the construction materials it made Showboat, Taj, and even resorts crumble. The boardwalk has been set on fire, and is completely obliterated. Well, what can I say?! Never give anything a shot, AC is trash and always will be. I'm glad about the city rotting and becoming more ghetto, what else could I ever want?
-InTheKnow

Fabrizio, I find it kinda sick that you point out the 1,000 jobs that were cut. Knowing where you're coming from in this "adult discussion", you probably are satisfied with this....oh well, their job first, your job next. Then lets see who is laughing.

Intheknow

December 4th, 2008, 05:35 PM

Please tell me how AC has improved in the last two years.

Once again boy wonder, I would not have bought property in AC if I didn't think it would improve, sometimes you just have to bite the bullit and take your losses.

It's not my fault AC is falling behind, the monopoly is over and AC government and business is getting their asses handed to them.

giselehaslice

December 4th, 2008, 05:41 PM

AC HAS improved it's housing stock. The new townhouses in the Inlet, those other Aquella townhouses. The Boardwalk looks nicer with the new facades. I know your going to tell me this does not really have to do with the city, but if these things don't, nothing does.

I never said it was your fault. It is just your horrible attitude that really irks me (and I'm sure quite a few others too.) When you make up blatant lies (ie Revel not still being built, saying RESORTS is closing!) just becuase you feel like it, is it really a shock to you that someone is going to say something to you!? GET A LIFE.

Intheknow

December 4th, 2008, 06:23 PM

giselehaslice

December 4th, 2008, 06:34 PM

Agreed, some people can be idiots (cough, cough.)

I know now not to put ANYTHING above you. You are the type of person who gives NJ a bad wrap. Negative, rude, and arrogant.

Have a good time dreaming up more crap tonight. Hugs and kissess x0x0x0x <3

Intheknow

December 4th, 2008, 06:59 PM

Negative, arrogant and rude? I'm not a casino employee.

So in two years some townhouses went up, ahh progress. AC's image really changed with this development. We've had more mayors in the last two years then finished projects.

zipburn

December 4th, 2008, 07:25 PM

Some people are real idiots.

I never said Resorts was closing, but I wouldn't doubt it. Revel is being built but I doubt they'll finish. I'm in the credit business, among other things, I told you dreamers MONTHS ago there was going to be trouble but you all just kept whistling Dixie and continue to do so.

I have seven kids how much more of a life do you want me to get?

Idiots and dreamers thats all we are?

You didnt post that months ago you post that every day, every 15 minutes, the same stupid babble constantly. Not only do your posts have no backing they are flat out ridiculous. I know your trying to be funny but you suck at it, so please give it a rest. We know everything isn't cheery right now but that doesn't mean we need to hear about it every god damn 15 minutes. You are the problem, you are the kind that bitch and whine but never do anything about it. You never provide solutions you only say there are problems. Please make an attempt to provide substance to your posts because your one liners are atrocious.

Water Club, Harrahs Tower, The Pool, Chairman Tower @ Taj, Entire renovation of Showboats casino floor, Major Renovations to the interior of the Dennis, Bally's sixth floor resturaunt promenade, patsys @ the hilton, boogie nights @ resorts,phase 2 of the walk completed, new office building which will house the retail section of the post office(almost finished, was an empty lot for at least 10 years), multiple blocks of new boardwalk facades, Aquella being built, new townhomes, replacing former projects......and your favorite the Chelsea

So I guess everything I listed doesn't count because even though the projects did come to fruition in the past two years, they some how didn't in your perverted train of thought.

So really who's the idiot?

Intheknow

December 4th, 2008, 07:48 PM

Fabrizio

December 4th, 2008, 08:13 PM

zipburn

December 4th, 2008, 08:22 PM

My post have the backing of chairpushers, waitresses, dealers, etc. I am not trying to be funny. Most of what I post becomes public knowledge.

Everything you stated as progress was either done half-ass or paid way to much- Chelsea -over 100 million! Facades-over 100 million! Patsys- 10 buck sign change, way over priced won't last, Boogie nights is not development, Trump going bankrupt again, Harrahs laying off, Townhouses are shoddy construction-I'm in the business I can tell just by looking at a picture.

In the mean time-Sands imploded, Boardwalk falling apart, lights (which are very important believe it or not) on boardwalk not working, walk down Pacific or Atlantic Ave and see how much they have deteriorated in last two years............Post Office, why not renovate current one?

To answer your question, Geisal. You are just a border patrol agent or want to be one.

Are you saying they paid too much? The workmanship was shoddy? So you are saying the UNIONs did a bad job and overcharged. I thought you MR. Local 54, himself. The Sands imploding was great! I guess you never experienced what kind of a hole that place really was. Actually why don't you walk down Atlantic or Pacific. There have been quite a few improvements on Atlantic Ave. in the past year alone. So, keep up with your shallow unsubstantive posts, you sound less intelligent by the minute.

zipburn

December 4th, 2008, 08:28 PM

Some of those things mentioned are real improvements... and certainly welcome, but the renovation of a dated looking casino floor, or Patsy's at the Hilton and etc. should be considered par for the course. It's nice to hear that after 30 years Bally's is doing some interior work on the Dennis... but uh, aren't billion dollar companies supposed to do things like that with their properties? In the meantime, there is a city out there that needs work.

What you want is the rennaisance of a neighboorhood, young professionals moving in, new independently owned non-casino related businesses setting up shop, and so on.

Yes, I have been saying that all along. That would start the city on a swing you have been pushing. It's hard for me to see that but I think it could happen. I think on the lines of getting some highrises, townhomes that casino workers would want to live in. In 5-10 years there will be alot more casino employees and related work associated with the opening of new casinos.

Intheknow

December 4th, 2008, 08:36 PM

Ummm... Unions didn't pay 66 million for a Howard Johnsons and a Days Inn. Ummm...unions didn't build townhouses.

The Sands area looks much better now and another 2400 people out of work, good job Pinnacle!

Billions of dollars, that is real money. I would demand better and more for that kind of money.

Fabrizio

December 4th, 2008, 08:39 PM

Zipburn: But don't you see that if AC had a planning board that could step in and say that hotels MUST, they are REQUIRED to develop their frontage on Pacific with shops, restaurants and businesses... that they MUST adhere to a street wall... how much such a change in building requirements could have stiched the city back together? Imagine if Revel were required to do this with their complex... how it would then create a nice environment for a builder to build a luxury condo next door... and how the whole thing could link seamlessly together with the houses near the light house. You build things this way. NOT by letting everyone do as they please... in the long run it hurts everyone. That's why AC looks so crappy and attracts scum.

This is the Pacific Ave side of Revel... this is bull$hit... this produces blight... it blocks development:

zipburn

December 4th, 2008, 08:52 PM

I agree with you on what good regulations could have done for the city... but that was back then, it can't be changed now. The city has corrupt people running the place, eventually it will change. Money will force out the scum. It is taking time and some things do suck but after this downturn I see a strong upswing coming. I am too young to have seen what you have seen, but from people that did live in the area said at the time you could roll a bowling ball down atlantic ave. and not even hit a car. What I grew up with was not nice looking building like in your pictures but old, rundown, boarded up buildings. Atlantic City is a tourist destination, its main goal is to bring in vistors and take their money. So improving tourist areas takes precedence over caring about regulations that will impede people who want to build tourist attractions. I think there is a place and time for regulations, but that wasn't the time. AC showed its hand, and it wasn't strong enough to will regulations on investments. Its slowly gaining strength but it will take a little more.

Fabrizio

December 4th, 2008, 08:53 PM

zipburn

December 4th, 2008, 09:00 PM

You can't really tell a whole lot from that picture. How do you know there isn't going to be stores there? Revel is on Oriental Ave. not Pacific, there is already a luxury condo in front of it and they have to build a thermal plant in the area like the one in the marina district. They are actually tearing down the welfare homes, which is eliminating blight.

zipburn

December 4th, 2008, 09:07 PM

As a rough example: in Vegas so many hotels are built with small intimate buildings surrounding them. Why isn't this done in AC? Imagine if this were Pacific with a modern casino tower and instead of blank walls and parking garges, small buildings lined the the street:

I believe the problem is hold outs and limited acerage. Vegas has much larger parcels then AC because of the geography. Add to it, over reaching land owners and you see why everything is big walled and cramed.

Fabrizio

December 4th, 2008, 09:07 PM

I stand corrected, I forgot that Oriental cuts through at that point.

Tearing down welfare homes and shacks etc is great... but examine what will be replacing them. If Oriental were being developed by Revel into a normal city street... believe me their rendings would indicate it. But they have no reason to build that way. That's also why their boardwalk frontage is mostly a fence.

One long desolate walk. This is crap:

zipburn

December 4th, 2008, 09:23 PM

Yeah, Im not a big fan of that either... stupid design too considering that driveway will turn into a wind tunnel, being that it is facing the ocean. Building curves will also help to increase the wind speed by directing it towards the hole.

Intheknow

December 4th, 2008, 09:45 PM

zipburn

December 4th, 2008, 09:58 PM

This video shows a better image of the whole building, as you can see there are some blank walls but, you need a place for the trash to go in and out of and a loading dock. I'm guessing it would be located in those areas. There is a resturaunt on the corner of oriental ave with outside seating, and the rendering of garden pier makes up for the lighted wall, IMO. Alot of attention to detail on the inside, just a little spacey and the emphasis but on the escalators is kind of weird. What happens when they stop working like usual or some douche slides on the rail and falls like the guy who died at the pier.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9vBPAI-cr08

zipburn

December 4th, 2008, 10:13 PM

Physically walk down to the Revel site and you will see and FEEL how this is the same old bullshit that's been going up for 30 years, who cares what's on the inside-pool, sauna, 6 5 star restaurants,blah blah f'n blah. Walk down the street (beach block) and you'll be between a parking garage and an empty lot, how appealing is that? You have the OCEAN and BOARDWALK at your front door and they build and spend billions to isolate these attractions? That's not stupid? Zippy I don't agree with any of your assessments on AC, you need to travel more and see other cities.

That rendering of Revel you guys are referencing is not a good representation of what's going up, it's much worse.

Of course you don't, I use facts. I was there today and I saw a skeleton of a building, how am I supposed to make an assessment of a finished product when it isn't finished? I might add it looks like the skeleton of the finished product in the rendering. What is your deal? I mean the rendering of The Walk 'phase II' was spot on to what it looks like today but somehow you said it looks nothing like it. Do you have a mental block or something? Can you envision something other than doom & gloom? Seriously, listening to your crap others might think it hasn't been busy at all when in fact every weekend this past month was extremely crowded in town. Why don't you worry about your hometown Philadelphia, that place needs a hell of alot more help than Atlantic City. You can go paint children's murals on the walls cause that makes a city look fabulous. If your lucky you won't get shot in the back.

Fabrizio

December 4th, 2008, 10:27 PM

Of course these hotels need parking garages and loading docks and so forth but other parts of the exterior can be devoted to the street. If the restaurant and out-door seating is planned for Oriental then that's a big plus. This hotel will (incredibly so) be the first hotel casino with terraces open to the out side... as was done on most of the grand old hotels. But the boardwalk level and side streets don't look promising.

And yes, they SHOULD tear down the garden pier and start over.

---

What the garden pier originally looked like:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v33/ronaldo/tsq033.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v33/ronaldo/tsq031.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v33/ronaldo/NJ-00022-CGarden-Pier-Atlantic-City.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v33/ronaldo/tsq032.jpg
These structures were patterned in a Tuscan-style : a hotel here in Viareggio:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v33/ronaldo/1332718260_4e00c2cf32.jpg

---

Intheknow

December 4th, 2008, 10:38 PM

Zippy, Is the parking garage constructed at street level? Is the front constructed on the boardwalk? Well that's how it's going to look from a pedestrians view. The street level is basically done less some cosmetic bushes and God awful mini parks with stupid sculptures-see Caesars, Hilton. etc... As for #'s the facts come out every month, last year was busy during the weekends also, but so was Thurs, and Sun., You state how this or that is in town this weekend so the #'s should be better. Well guess what, it was the same thing in town last year Madonna, big fight, etc..

It's real slow, scary slow, in Atlantic City, ask anyone.

They'll be lucky to finish the Casino let alone buy Garden Pier and develop it, can't generate income with a Garden pier. It will never happen, they'll say they will but they won't fix Garden Pier unless the CITY demanded it before they could build, to late for that.

zipburn

December 4th, 2008, 10:59 PM

One the parking garage will not be seen from the boardwalk...Two the parking garage is going to be covered, it won't look like it does now...Three why wouldn't a parking garage be constructed at street level?

I'm in an around Atlantic City every day, I don't need to ask anyone I can see it myself. This month will be an improvement over last month, take it to the bank. I don't feel like looking up last years numbers but this month will be within at least 7% percent of last years numbers.

Intheknow

December 4th, 2008, 11:06 PM

You shouldn't make predictions.

I can see the parking garage from the boardwalk now why wouldn't I see it when project is done? It's on the beach block.

zipburn

December 4th, 2008, 11:12 PM

You shouldn't make predictions.

I can see the parking garage from the boardwalk now why wouldn't I see it when project is done? It's on the beach block.

No, you shouldn't make predicitions. I will be right again.

HMMM...figure it out! How dense are you to think they would build something like that and have a standard AC parking garage in view from their boardwalk frontage.
Where else are they going to build it? On the bay block? They are only building on the beach block!

Intheknow

December 4th, 2008, 11:37 PM

Standard AC parking garage. Standard AC Casino. Standard box with bells and whistles. Standard AC native idea of good, quality design.

Keep on yappin'.

NYatKNIGHT

December 5th, 2008, 10:20 AM

Guys. Great, really excellent points made in this thread, the general content is exceptional. Is it possible to continue without the petty insults? Much appreciated.

Intheknow

December 5th, 2008, 01:50 PM

Yes sir.

This is what I think to be true, do not construe this as an insult. Atlantic City born and raised residents are just used to mediocrity and when they see something as unexceptional as Revel going up they think it's the ninth wonder of the world, well it's not and Revel could and should develop something other than what's been going up for the past 30 years.

joejack

December 5th, 2008, 07:07 PM

I was in Atlantic City New Jersey (actually Cherry Hill) and I could not wait to get to an Atlantic City Hotel I fell in love with the board walk and the old charm. I always go to Vegas and I like downtown better. Your Garden Pier should stay!

Fabrizio

December 6th, 2008, 07:44 AM

Nice try Joejack.... shillin' on your first post?

Yes, welcome to Altantic City's fabulously charming GardenPier:

Ok... so the granite is crumbling.... so what?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v33/ronaldo/521179722_fd5b7d84a4.jpg

BTW: I wonder how much you could sue the city for tripping over that lamp-pole base? Just wondering.

And you've gotta admire that gravity-defying slab of granite on the far left of the photo.

Those Pizza-Hut-on-the-Pier looking structures used to look like a Renaissance-revival loggia worthy of today's Rodeo Drive... or LasVegas :

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v33/ronaldo/tsq033.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v33/ronaldo/tsq031.jpg

At the end of the Pier: this was built in 1954... it was never a beauty but it WAS the gateway to an outdoor bandshell for concerts. Look at it's condition today:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v33/ronaldo/1672003214_c12072359c.jpg

The bandshell is gone and this is whats left:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v33/ronaldo/562091459_f7c5c9b9e6.jpg

Pretty ain't it?

Another charming vista... especially if you have nostalgia for Soviet-era sea-side resorts:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v33/ronaldo/1671964626_3546730632.jpg

The fountain:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v33/ronaldo/1671124773_bf26ec02c1.jpg

Welcome to Garden Pier:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v33/ronaldo/405853786_d2f809e6a7.jpg

--

However...the idea does live on...

The opulent Breakers Hotel with small renaissance-style shop buildings in front:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v33/ronaldo/card00673_fr.jpg

The opulent Bellaggio Hotel with small renaissance-style shop buildings in front:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v33/ronaldo/bellagio.jpg

---

And AC today... :

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v33/ronaldo/521179722_fd5b7d84a4.jpg

lofter1

December 6th, 2008, 10:21 AM

Fab: What do you have against seals & kitties?

Fabrizio

December 6th, 2008, 10:46 AM

Oh, the seals and kitties are fine... but please note this: when Bally's tore down the Marlbough-Blenhiem, they gave a few of the building's gargoyles to the city as a gift. The city then glued these gargoyles to the fountain on Garden Pier. The gargoyles, now out of their original context, look like someone left a few Holloween masks lying around:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v33/ronaldo/1671950254_23c9223c03-1.jpg

Another view of the charming GardenPier (and the owner is not the Schiffs... the owner is Atlantic city!):

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v33/ronaldo/2943779772_ac4d3f488a.jpg

And I love this... enjoy... (the jokes just write themselves) :

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v33/ronaldo/1671939142_23d29bd8b2_b.jpg

--

lofter1

December 6th, 2008, 10:52 AM

Seems that Garden State Brickface (http://www.brickface.com/) landed a contract or two in AC ...

lofter1

December 6th, 2008, 10:56 AM

For folks from anywhere beyond DE / PA / NJ it looks like it's almost as cheap (and as easy) to go to Paradise Island in the Bahamas (http://www.atlastravelweb.com/atlantis.shtml) as it is to get their butts to AC.

If you had three days off and wanted to gamble (http://www.lovetoeatandtravel.com/site/intl/Bahamas/Paradise%20Island/Atlantis%20Resort/Fun/casino.htm) which would you choose?

giselehaslice

December 6th, 2008, 12:56 PM

That is a valid point, but the shore in general (not just AC) is an expensive vacation for what you get, and still hundreds of thousands choose the shore, even if it is (reletively) expensive.

I would choose Atlantis over AC hands down.

_______
Fabrizio- thanks for the pictures of the garden pier, it looks terrible..worse than terrible. I hope that Revel buys it and does something with it.

Intheknow

December 6th, 2008, 05:50 PM

Wouldn't you be embarrassed if you owned that? Not in AC they're not, they still tout this as a tourist attraction!!

zipburn

December 7th, 2008, 01:01 AM

it is what it is... a storm ravaged pier....

NyatKnight... i'll stop with the petty insults as long as im not warned because I repeated what one poster said about himself, but its ok for him to personally call me a f'n idiot... seems a little onesided if you ask me... that clown can make up lie after lie, about my hometown but im not allowed to respond to his braindead bs? one poster on here, just puts out flame after flame, but its ok? even when he complains one day about how they are going to remove the pier, then the next day complains that they sell it as a tourist attraction? At least Fabrizio provides substance, the other one is a drain on this thread...

A quality poster like AGG doesn't post on here anymore? I wonder why? There is no good points on one side, its all fabrications. I feel like I have to correct the lies of one, so my city isn't bashed. How is that right?

Fabrizio

December 7th, 2008, 06:05 AM

Zipburn: storm ravaged? Oh please. The last significant storm was in 1962. That's 46 years ago.

This pier is owned by the city... they proudly boast that it is an "Oasis of Culture" and that since 1913 it "personifies Atlantic City's unique cultural identity"... look at the above pictures: 4 lamp posts gone (well no, one still stands without lights), granite crumbling, etc. And you are blaming this on a storm that happened 46 years ago? If this place were shabby in a cool way... well ok... but it's not... it's now desolate and ghetto. It is always high on the list of "things to do in Atlantic City" and it houses 2 "museums"... so it is a place that represents the city and is seen by tourists. It is an embarassament. But I imagine to Kaleem Shabazz, pointing out a filthy fountian that dribbles water, would be "dissing AC".

What would it take to replace 4 lamp posts? Can't Shabazz (executive director of the museum) go out there with some CrazyGlue and attach the granite tile that's ready to fall?

I read that the city wants 6.5 million for Garden Pier. They should give it to Revel as a gift.

---

Intheknow

December 7th, 2008, 09:26 AM

[quote=Intheknow;263127] Look at the Bella Condos that recently went up-high-end, luxury, but its in the miiddle of a ghetto, no wonder they can't give them away. You pay 500k-1 million bucks for a unit and your afraid to walk outside. The people in this city just don't get it, and they continue down the same old disaterous path, decade after decade.

Article in todays Press of Atlantic City concerning Bella Condo's. They don't even recognize the biggest reason they aren't selling is because it sits in a ghetto. Some of you will bitch and say it's getting better down there, but as of right now it's a ghetto-take a walk down there and see for yourselves.

The people who bought early into the Bella got suckered.

Fabrizio

December 7th, 2008, 10:54 AM

From today's MSNBC as reported by the Associated Press:

Atlantic City: casinos, corruption and sex tape
Former council president sentenced for setting up his rival with a prostitute

Dec. 6, 2008

ATLANTIC CITY, N.J. - A hooker and a Baptist minister having sex in a seedy motel room, where a camera was hidden in a clock radio. A videotape delivered to a radio talk show host by someone wearing oversized glasses, a fake beard and surgical gloves. Even by the flamboyant corruption standards set by Atlantic City's government over the decades, this was one for the books.

Former City Council President Craig Callaway was sentenced Thursday to three years in prison for his role in setting up council rival Eugene Robinson with a prostitute in a motel room and secretly videotaping the encounter. "From the inception of Atlantic City, there has been a culture of corruption here that has never washed away with the tide," said Virginia McCabe, an Atlantic City radio host who received the first copy of the sex tape. "It's what Atlantic City grew up on and handed down from one generation to the next."

In addition to the crushing economic slump that's crippling the city's 11 casinos in the nation's second-largest gambling resort and threatening the construction of at least two others, the city got a dose of bad publicity last year when Mayor Bob Levy dropped out of sight for two weeks, earning the nickname "the Missing Mayor." When Levy finally did resurface, he resigned, admitting he had been abusing painkillers and that he had lied about his Vietnam War service in order to fatten his veterans' benefits checks.

Levy was sentenced to probation, and has to pay back $25,000 in extra benefits he received as a result of falsely claiming he was in a special operations unit that worked behind enemy lines in Vietnam. "The only thing that appears to be missing from City Hall in Atlantic City over the years is P.T. Barnum," said James Leonard Jr., a politically active lawyer. "The corruption, the sex, the Missing Mayor — it seems to be only in Atlantic City that they do it this vigorously. "Atlantic City is a town whose origins are rooted in vice," he said. "It's like the temptations are just too great here."

Levy resigned in October 2007. Four of his eight predecessors also had been arrested on corruption charges. Some council members haven't fared much better. As recently as 2006, one-third of the nine council members were either in prison or on their way. One incumbent councilman is awaiting trial next year for his role in the Callaway sex video case. In 1989 and 1990, four council members and the mayor were indicted in a bribery case. Only one councilman and the mayor, James Usry, were convicted.

Callaway had come to dominate the all-Democrat city government. His network of family and friends mastered the technique of soliciting and collecting absentee ballots in poor neighborhoods. In more than one election, candidates who thought they had won, according to voting machine totals, ended up losing when hundreds or even thousands of Callaway's absentee ballots were counted. He also was arrested 25 times, with many of the cases involving his use of a bullhorn to shout down opponents. Once, he was convicted of throwing a brick at a political rival's van.

Callaway had been a leading candidate for mayor when the FBI nabbed him for taking $36,000 in bribes. He pleaded guilty in that case, then had one piece of unfinished business: taking down Robinson, a council rival. In 2006, he rented two rooms at the Bayview Motel, a nondescript lodging outside Atlantic City. According to an FBI agent's court testimony in June, co-defendant Floyd Tally placed a camera hidden in a clock radio inside one of the rooms. A video recorder was set up in the adjacent room. The agent said Callaway and his brothers, Ronald and David, paid a prostitute between $150 and $200 to lure Robinson to the motel and perform a sex act on him. Councilman John Schultz allegedly arranged for a computer expert to help edit the video and blur the woman's face, the agent testified.

Prosecutors say Callaway and the others confronted Robinson with the tape and told him it would be released to the media if he didn't resign. Robinson refused, and contacted authorities. He declined to comment, but has filed an invasion of privacy lawsuit against Callaway and several others. Robinson maintains the sex was consensual, and that money he gave the woman was to buy sodas. Callaway is serving his three-year sentence for conspiracy to commit invasion of privacy at the same time he serves a 40-month federal prison term in the bribery case. All the remaining defendants in the video case have pleaded innocent and maintain they had nothing to do with the taping. They are due in court Jan. 13. McCabe has little hope Atlantic City's government will clean up its act, especially since Callaway's blackmail attempt didn't cost him any additional prison time.

"We have a history here," she said. "We don't give our criminals much punishment; we just give them publicity."

Intheknow

December 7th, 2008, 06:51 PM

Zippy, I guess I was lying when I mentioned the Bella condos a couple of weeks ago.

zipburn

December 7th, 2008, 11:57 PM

One.... the bella condos are bascially isolated from any sort of neighborhood, this ghetto talk is flat out bs.... Two if your afraid to walk out of the bella condos you have issues! what are you afraid a construction worker is going to beat you? The nation is in a downturn, atlantic city is a tourist/convention based economy... What about that don't you get?

Fabrizio

December 8th, 2008, 05:05 AM

Besides the location (Atlantic City), a big problem with the Bella is that it's ugly-assed ugly... cheap 1980's looking. Oh, and the attempt at hipness with the scupltures at the entrance just does not work. Is it surprising that people don't want to pay that kind of money to live here? Maybe when Revel is finished it will have turned out to be a good investment... but in the meantime, paying big money for this is a tall order...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v33/ronaldo/657064.jpg

Note the cheap public housing windows. It looks like one of those Sam Chang budget hotels:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v33/ronaldo/2327622840_550c089bb2.jpg

Intheknow

December 8th, 2008, 07:24 AM

The Bellas are surrounded by empty lots and abandoned buildings, that would be considered a ghetto in any other city.

Would you be comfortable having your mother or grandmother living there?

giselehaslice

December 8th, 2008, 03:08 PM

"a big problem with the Bella is that it's ugly-assed ugly... cheap 1980's looking" - Fabrizio

If memory serves me right, Bella is an older building that was just converted into condos. It actually might be from the 80's. Your right though, still ugly.

And Intheknow, there are much worse nighborhoods in AC then the one Bella is in (if you could consider it a neighborhood.) It is actually in a good location, considering Revel being built literally across the street. That being said, it certainly is no Avalon.

zipburn

December 8th, 2008, 07:07 PM

Isn't buying a house/condo considered an investment? Last I checked it was......

Intheknow

December 8th, 2008, 07:51 PM

Yes, but it would be nice if your condo didn't lose half its value in 1 year. This would be considered a bad investment.

lofter1

December 8th, 2008, 08:05 PM

Almost everything that folks have been told to invest in over the past 50 years has now lost a major chunk of value -- not just houses.

zipburn

December 9th, 2008, 12:09 AM

zipburn

December 9th, 2008, 12:46 AM

I have no inside knowledge of the current ACE train status, so this is more of a question based on what I have seen. The AC train station parts into three rails, over the summer they worked on one side, and recently they just finished the other side(excluding the middle track). Last week there was a NE Corridor dual-deck railcar in the station which was connected to what seemed to be an amtrak engine(could have been nj transit, wasn't typical nj transit diesel). I know there is a quite a few people on this forum who have inside info with regards to the railroad system. Has anyone heard anything, was this a test run? It was last reported to be online in early 2009. Thanks for any insight.

Intheknow

December 9th, 2008, 09:54 AM

Poor timing on their part, now is the time to invest in Bella, knock its outside but it sure is nice on the inside. When Revel is finished, I see a nice new neighborhood forming. Those abandoned buildings are like that for a reason, they are going to be demolished.

Why do you see a nice neighborhood forming? Name one nice neighborhood that has formed because a Casino built on the boardwalk i.e. The Hilton, Tropicana, Caesars, Trump, etc.. They are repeating what they've done for the past 30 years. The Bella is not a a good investment at any price.

NYatKNIGHT

December 9th, 2008, 12:15 PM

Zipburn, there's a good thread about the New York to Atlantic City Service (http://www.railroad.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=69&t=25702&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=750#wrap) at Railroad.net (http:///www.railroad.net), which is a great source of Railroad news.

From what I can gather, service is expected to begin after the new cars are tested. A forumer there spotted them being tested in Cherry Hill a couple of weeks ago. Photo by chuchubob.

http://chuchubob.rrpicturearchives.net/pictures%5C28163%5C08%2011-08%2005.JPG

zipburn

December 9th, 2008, 06:48 PM

Thanks alot for that post, I didn't know such a site existed let alone a 50 page thread on the aces service. Funny enough I saw a black train today that wasn't the one in that picture, its looked newer. It was pulling regular cars and had NJT markings. It could be the same one might have just been the angle I was looking at it from.

acplayer

December 10th, 2008, 12:08 AM

I hope the train service is really successful despite the beating Wall Street and hence Ney York is taking. Here's a cool night photo.

http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh72/acplayerr/nightshotmarina.jpg

zipburn

December 10th, 2008, 12:50 AM

Nice photos...your work? Thanks to NAK, I was able to find the train, and apparently the cars are finished and ready for transport from Albany, NY.

http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/pictures/15152/06%2011-14%2001.jpg

Intheknow

December 10th, 2008, 07:38 AM

Resorts is on it's last leg, missed payment for Nov. Hilton is not far behind. Everyones hero Curtis Bashaw has closed his AC gateway office (old car dealership) on Providence, thanks for the abandoned building Curtis! Also, thanks for trashing the area before you left- empty buildings, now under funded Condos, spray paint all over sidewalks, empty parking lots- Hilton and old High School.

It appears AC Gateway left in a hurry, should be hearing the sordid details in the near future.

giselehaslice

December 10th, 2008, 02:43 PM

^thanks for your contributions.

zipburn

December 10th, 2008, 03:45 PM

Damn, am I a good prognosticator or what?

-------------------------------

LATEST NEWS: Casino revenue shrinks again

By ERIK ORTIZ
Staff Writer, 609-272-7253

ATLANTIC CITY - Figures released today by the Casino Control Commission show another tough month for the resort's 11 casinos, which shared a 7.8 percent revenue decline for November.
The drop is slightly lower than the 9.9 percent decline for October, and a considerable improvement from September's 15.1 percent decline - the largest ever since gaming began in Atlantic City 30 years ago.
The total casino "win" from slot machines and table games in November was $345.5 million.
The only casinos to show increased revenue overall were Harrah's Atlantic City, with a 9.4 percent increase, and Caesars Atlantic City, with an 8.5 percent increase.
Harrah's, which is benefiting from a new hotel tower, was the only casino to see positive earnings in both slots (0.1 percent) and table games (69.6 percent).
The worst performers were Atlantic City Hilton Casino Resort (down 30.1 percent), Trump Marina Hotel Casino (down 27.1 percent) and Resorts Atlantic City (down 23.5 percent).
The faltering economy has roiled the resort's casino industry, which lost nearly 1,000 jobs in November. It was the first time since early 1988 that casino employment fell below 40,000. This year is on course to become Atlantic City's second year of sinking revenue following a difficult 2007 - the first time annual revenue has fallen since 1978

Intheknow

December 10th, 2008, 05:27 PM

Zipburn-
I don't feel like looking up last years numbers but this month will be within at least 7% percent of last years numbers.[/quote]

Not to get technical but isn't 7.8% MORE than 7%??

If you aren't growing you're dying.

zipburn

December 10th, 2008, 07:05 PM

Sorry, I'm not good enough to project past the decimal point...

if you want to make a fuss about .8 percentage points be my guest, the trends are showing improvement...

Intheknow

December 10th, 2008, 07:18 PM

Does anyone know how many "proposed Casinos" have destroyed a part of this City and not been completed? I know of the Dunes, Pinnacle and AC Gateway.

Revel has not announced full financing yet, this is a concern.

zipburn

December 10th, 2008, 07:58 PM

AC Gateway and the Dunes, are one in the same.. can't hold ac gateway responsible for destroying something that wasn't there, like a neighborhood or anything that was structurally sound... Pinnacle knocked down the sands, which is an improvement but did force the tenants on the boardwalk out... thats about it.. plus you are acting like nothing is going to be built on those lots... and again for the LAST time MS can finance REVEL on its own..

Intheknow

December 10th, 2008, 09:12 PM

I saw Revel today and it not impressing me, surprise. The parking garage is the first thing you notice from boardwalk, it's getting taller and uglier.

zipburn

December 10th, 2008, 10:01 PM

I guess they are expecting more cars?

acplayer

December 11th, 2008, 01:08 AM

Zip, I wish I took that Marina pic and these Revel ones, which I think look pretty cool.

http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh72/acplayerr/revelconstruction.jpg

http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh72/acplayerr/acrevel1.jpg

Fabrizio

December 11th, 2008, 08:34 AM

The following article appeared in the Press yesterday about the further decline in AC's population.

The city has been losing residents for decades but it is interesting to note that it now has about about 10,000 less residents then it did at the start of casino gambling. The exodus is about even between blacks and whites. Only Asians and Asian Indians have seen an increase... and I would imagine they are on a low scale economically.

It is just incredible to me: one would have thought that casinos+the beach+the boardwalk would have sparked quite a renaissance of new residents. Note also that the average income is listed at : $30,700... that's nothing.

Nearly every American city has had their centers gentrify during the last 20 years... but not AC... quite the opposite.

Atlantic City exodus cuts population 12 percent
By MICHAEL CLARK Staff Writer
Published: Tuesday, December 09, 2008

Atlantic City has lost another title: The county's most populated municipality.
According to new census estimates released today, the city's population has fallen below Galloway Township's and Egg Harbor Township's for the first time.
The resort's population is down nearly 12 percent since the 2000 Census, dropping from 40,517 to 35,770, according to the bureau's American Community Survey. The estimates cover towns with populations of 20,000 to 65,000.
As Atlantic City's population decreases and its median household income hovers at a meager $30,791, according to the survey, the two townships' populations and median family incomes have increased considerably.
The numbers reveal a theme among city residents: If they're moving up, they're moving out.
For instance, while Galloway Township's population increased from 31,209 to 41,333, its median family income jumped more than $10,000 to $62,665. The increase, mirrored in Hamilton and Egg Harbor townships, implies a migration of city residents to the suburban municipalities as residents earn more money.
Rich Baehrle, a vice president with Vanguard Realty and chairman of the county's economic advisory board, believes the offshore move is due to a combination of factors, including the desire to establish a family in suburban areas and the townships' ever-expanding school systems.
He also suggested the numbers could be a result of the subprime mortgage crisis.
"Going back to the era that you're talking about, the interest rates were lower and people got a bigger bang for their buck offshore," Baehrle said. "People were likely getting step-up loans," a loan offering the borrower flexibility by allowing monthly installments that start very low and slowly increase in cost.
The city's decline in residents is not likely to rebound soon.
The latest census figures were collected from 2005 through 2007, before the resort underwent its first overall property revaluation in nearly 30 years. The delay resulted in a drastic spike in property taxes for most residents and small businesses and could force many life-long inhabitants off the island.
Also, county planning officials believe recent casino-employee layoffs could push even more city residents toward the mainland to seek new employment.
According to the survey, the decrease in population is almost across the board, demographically. The numbers of whites, Hispanics and blacks are all down, including a 20.9 percent drop among black residents.
Only the Asian community is up, having jumped more than 35 percent, from 4,066 to 5,514. The increase includes nearly every Asian nationality, including a hefty spike in Asian Indians, from 803 to 1,894.
Vietnamese residents are the exception in the city's Asian makeup, declining by more than 30 percent.
Tien Nhan, a 34-year-old construction worker from Vietnam, left Atlantic City in 2003 to move to Galloway Township when he got married. He started a construction business out of his new Galloway home two years ago.
"Atlantic City is nice, and it's convenient," said Nhan, who has many friends and family who still live in the city. "But, you know, Galloway is a good place to raise a family."
Although the resort is losing residents, it has seen a slight increase in its total number of housing units, which exceeds the closest township by about 5,000 units. However, residents' gradual exodus from the gaming town is leaving more vacant housing. The survey shows nearly 23 percent of Atlantic City's housing units are vacant and renters occupy more than 70 percent.
"Atlantic City has never been a big growth community," said Robert Lindaw, a county planning official who deals with demographics.
According to figures from the county, the resort's population peaked in the 1930s, with more than 65,000 people living on the island. A consistent decline began from there, a downward spiral that continues with the latest numbers.

giselehaslice

December 11th, 2008, 03:18 PM

"Nearly every American city has had their centers gentrify during the last 20 years... but not AC... quite the opposite."-Fabrizio.

I'm sorry but that just is not true. AC is much better now than it was 20 years ago. I agree that it has not seen much of a residential gentrification, but to go and say that the city turned less high-end is not true.

lofter1

December 11th, 2008, 03:55 PM

words and meaning are important ...

Gentrification (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/gentrification)

gen·tri·fi·ca·tion http://www.merriam-webster.com/images/audio.gif (http://javascript<b></b>:popWin('/cgi-bin/audio.pl?gentri02.wav=gentrification'))
Pronunciation: \ˌjen-trə-fə-ˈkā-shən\
Function: noun
Date: 1964

:: the process of renewal and rebuilding accompanying the influx of middle-class or affluent people into deteriorating areas that often displaces poorer residents

Intheknow

December 11th, 2008, 04:33 PM

Slum-A squalid, heavily populated urban residential area marked by poverty and substandard housing.

How's that?

giselehaslice

December 11th, 2008, 05:51 PM

ITK, according to Fabrizio, AC's really not that dense anymore!

And Lofter, thanks! You completely skipped over the part where I said it was lacking the residential component. Don't try to say that retail does'nt play a part in the overall meaning of gentrification either.

lofter1

December 11th, 2008, 06:57 PM

gis: I bow down before you -- you are always right.

This thread is as dead as AC.

giselehaslice

December 11th, 2008, 07:02 PM

I'm not saying I'm always right, just wanted to make sure that it was known I know about the lack of residential development. Also I think that it is important to note the good things that have been done in the past 20 years that are very easily discredited on this board.

acplayer

December 11th, 2008, 07:45 PM

Sorry Gisel but except for some subsidized affordable housing and a small pocket of high end housing, A.C. has not gentrified at all. In fact, just about every neighborhood in A.C. has gone downhill over the last 20 years like Ducktown, Chelsea, Chelsea Heights, etc... and corporate retail development doesn't count as true gentrification.

That being said, there is still some beauty in A.C. if you look for it.

http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh72/acplayerr/marinadusk.jpg

http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh72/acplayerr/harrahs.jpg

Fabrizio

December 11th, 2008, 07:57 PM

Thanks for the nice pics.

------

What is amazing too, is that we've just come out of a very long residential building frenzy in the US... but it pretty much passed over AC.

JCMAN320

December 11th, 2008, 08:00 PM

The Waterfront Tower, the building with the American Flag image on it, is the hotel where me and my girl stayed. Awesome place!!

Fabrizio

December 11th, 2008, 08:10 PM

And speaking of trains: this photo is amazing of how organized AC was for the tourist. Hotels recieved you at the station and jitneys brought you in. Imagine such a system today... with electric jitneys.

My own town here in Italy is largely closed to traffic in the center... new parking lots have been built outside of the center and free electric busses bring people in. Many towns and cities here now have them.

Note the list of hotels:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v33/ronaldo/c.jpg

---

Electric mini-bus:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v33/ronaldo/11276036.jpg

NYC4Life

December 11th, 2008, 09:28 PM

How many people can fit in there?

Intheknow

December 11th, 2008, 10:25 PM

I'll bet you can get 100 midgets in that thing.

AC is dying not growing, the stats prove this. The only development is Revel and that is going nowhere fast, besides the fact it's more garbage. Anyone read Pinky in AC weekly this week concerning Garden Pier? Pathetic.

zipburn

December 12th, 2008, 03:04 AM

I don't really see what's pathetic? It would be a good fit on the same street as Dante Hall. Im tired of the racial bullcrap though, why not offer a history museum not just a black history musuem. They already have the civil rights garden.

Intheknow

December 12th, 2008, 07:19 AM

What's pathetic is the fact that Pinky just wants to sell Garden Pier to a private entity without any consideration of its historic value to the CITY. Also, City Council is going to come up with a selling price, give me a break.

Fabrizio

December 12th, 2008, 09:08 AM

IMHO there is NO historical value to Garden Pier... and I'm the first for historic preservation. The city should give the pier to any developer willing to create something spectacular. There should be design and use guidelines, public amenities required and etc. Throw it out to a nation architectural competition.

Enough already with the black history museums, Holocaust museums and etc. We got the point a long time ago. And isn't that what Washington DC is for? More than a Holocaust museum, a museum cronicling the great Jewish contribution to Atlantic City during it's heyday. Make it an ethnic museum relating to AC: the Jews, Italians, Blacks... the Quakers had huge influence on AC as well.

AC needs modern gallery space and should be on the national art circut. Concert Halls. Culture attracts cash, it gentrifies.

--

lofter1

December 12th, 2008, 08:54 PM

Not to worry: The specialty museums will no longer be built. Donors are not about to pony up cash for such a thing in this economy -- it will be up to the next generation (if they have any money) to reinstate that type of giving.

acplayer

December 13th, 2008, 03:18 PM

I agree they should move the historical museum near Danta Hall without the token black museum. Just an all-American A.C. historical museum. The city has done nothing but let the Garden Pier crumble into the ocean the last 40 years and it has lost all of its historical context. Revel, Trump, etc... needs to bring back the Wow factor with entertainment, etc... for these piers. It's not rocket science.

Just look to the past to see what can be.
http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh72/acplayerr/acbwcolorslide1960s.jpg

http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh72/acplayerr/acsteelpierjuly1941-1.jpg

http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh72/acplayerr/acsteelpiersteeplechase21950s.jpg

acplayer

December 14th, 2008, 01:26 PM

I should have probably added photos of Garden Pier instead of the Steel Pier, but you get the idea. Atlantic City in it's heyday was truly the worlds greatest resort and a wonderland that catered to all classes.

http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh72/acplayerr/gardenpier1922.jpg

http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh72/acplayerr/gardenpier1918.jpg

Fabrizio

December 14th, 2008, 03:34 PM

Compare the B'walk to TimesSquare: both historic places with crowds, entertainment, hotels, bright lighted signs. By the mid 70's, both were in similair straits.

But look at TimesSquare today: like the "new" TimesSquare or not... it's still true to it's self. It still looks like TimesSquare.

The physical look of the place: Those bright lighted signs, new buildings with store front businesses, historic buildings preserved where possible... it's look today is directly linked to it's past. That did not happen by chance... laws where put into place that required developers to adhere to certain standards.

AC really missed the boat. This is why I'm at least happy to see the new facade program. A similair type of requirement should be made for Revel and Garden Pier.

Intheknow

December 14th, 2008, 06:23 PM

The facades are nothing to get excited about, especially for the cost. Where are the awnings?? Didn't the "facade committee" want to re- create old AC? Not to mention the crappy stores the facades front.

Atlantic City and the Casinos are doing NOTHING to improve the image of AC. It's still considered a dirty, dangerous town by a majority of people.

Intheknow

December 14th, 2008, 11:21 PM

Although it is Sunday night, it is deadly quite in AC. December Ocean City quite.

zipburn

December 15th, 2008, 12:28 AM

wrong.....

AC lover

December 15th, 2008, 06:27 PM

I was in A.C. today and walked down to the Revel site. I'm amazed at how quickly things are going down there. The building is going to be amazing! Its a shame that there are so many haters posting on here (like "Intheknow"), but that's what jealousy does to people. Revel is going to up the ante even for Borgata when they open.

lofter1

December 15th, 2008, 10:42 PM

Which, given the state of things, might be sometime around 2038 :cool:

(just call me AC could-car-less-er)

AC11

December 15th, 2008, 11:05 PM

Which, given the state of things, might be sometime around 2038 :cool:

(just call me AC could-car-less-er)

You obviously care because you read this thread and posted your comment.

Also, ITK isn't a hater...he is a disgruntled "investor" who tried to buy at the top of the market and it bit him in the ass. So now he has to make anyone else who is a stakeholder in AC feel like they have nothing as well. It sounds like he is throwing a tantrum every time he writes. It is quite comical though.

AC11

December 16th, 2008, 07:55 AM

really cool website for ACES. Service starting in Feb.

http://www.acestrain.com/

Fabrizio

December 16th, 2008, 08:44 AM

Why is the Revel casino going to be amazing? Someone explain.

Looking over the rendering there are a few things that I find disturbing as has been mentioned here previously.

The CRDA has established five primary characteristics that must be incorporated into all boardwalk architecture: creating active building facades; returning to the traditional construction materials of terra cotta, brick, and stone; and requiring vertical and horizontal layering to "foster visual links and participation between buildings and boardwalk." New construction and rehab projects must incorporate most of nine "secondary characteristics, which involve surface decoration and stylistic elements of the property".

From what I see of the Revel rendering nothing of this is included.

Actually the boardwalk frontage is not much better, perhaps worse than the casinos built in the 1980's like Bally's and the Trop.

Take a look:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v33/ronaldo/610x-2.jpg

There is a long stretch of nothing along the B'walk. And completely breaking with tradition and adding nothing to the B'walk experience is a roadway of all things. And what is that huge plot at the corner? Paved emptiness?

Please don't tell me that Revel is going to be "amazing" if this is what is being offered.

Will the sides streets be more destructive Great-Wall-of-China street walls? And look at what is proposed for the frontage on the city-side avenue. The structure on the left that stretches to the B'walk is a garage. This looks good?

Hasn't the city been damaged enough from this type of design?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v33/ronaldo/Revel-Exterior6-1.jpg

Intheknow

December 16th, 2008, 09:36 AM

Revel is amazing because it's the same old, same old. Don't people learn from the past?

I'm not a disgruntled investor, I've already been offered 50% more for my property than what I paid. I am a disgruntled taxpayer.

Ninjahedge

December 16th, 2008, 10:26 AM

It is amazing that something as simple as street level storefronts and pedestrian malls are so foreign to these people!

You would think, on the BOARDWALK, that people would be coaxed in by the sight and smell of good food being served. Some nice spot to sit out on the deck with a little cover from teh direct sun, but still close enough to hear the waves and smell the sea salt.

MANY areas have fallen to this corporite design standard. Hoboken being one of them, although many of our developments have required storefront accomodation, many are not inviting and do not provide any kind of plaza space for pedestrian traverse/exploration.

It looks like the same here.

You would think that AC would maybe take the Boardwalk of Seaside Heights and add a touch of class to it to make it a place where you don't have the Blingers parading up and down the walk.

You would still get the slot-jockeys and casino hounds, but maybe the level of drunks you end up with will be higher than the plastic-cuppers you get in some areas that are a bit closer to the city.

(BTW, do not get me wrong, I LOVE the shore, but I just do not like the direction it went. Form blue-collar family to strait-brimmed baseball cap+bandanna+saggies+cheap gaudy jewlery dudes and their overly-tight cladded femmes......... man I am getting old! ;) )

Fabrizio

December 16th, 2008, 10:46 AM

What is amazing is that people get suckered in by these development renderings. Using watercolor-colors and softly lit night scenes... a junk yard would look good.

Under the harsh light of reality a parking garage and walled-in street looks like this.... :

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v33/ronaldo/1039725979_8690a60dc5_b.jpg

AC11

December 16th, 2008, 10:56 AM

I do not look at Revel as being a brilliant design, and there is a lot that is wrong with it, one being the blank walls on NJ ave, and Mass. Ave.

But a good deal of the boardwalk will have storefronts. In front of the garage structure will be stores and restaurants built into it like the Quarter is built into Trops garage. Also, all the levels that are setback are terraces with either pools or seating for restaurants. Something that the old hotels had, and something that many current casinos are lacking.

And that plot of land on the corner is being themed "Revel Beach." A private beach area with cabanas and servers.

I will admit:
The wall by the road entrance - Dumb.
The all glass design - Tacky.
The two rectangular towers - Uninspired.

But the interior, the ammenities, and the "plans" for the surrounding neighborhood (if it ever comes to pass) should make it an overall asset to AC.

Intheknow

December 16th, 2008, 11:25 AM

But the interior, the ammenities, and the "plans" for the surrounding neighborhood (if it ever comes to pass) should make it an overall asset to AC.

For 2+ billion dollars it's money ill spent. Interior, ammenities, are all bells and whistles that do nothing to enhance the Boardwalk or surrounding area-how can you enhance a parking garage wall? Plans for the surrounding area? There are no plans for surrounding area, if you have seen or heard otherwise please show renderings. From what I can see to date the boardwalk frontage of Revel is all enclosed.

lofter1

December 16th, 2008, 11:32 AM

Thes companies DON't WANT people hanging out and ambling to and fro on the Boardwalk. They fear the type of people that might choose to do that. Rather, they want folks who are not distracted by the sea and sand and who just move their butts to the inside of the casinos.

Is there any other business interest here BUT casinos?

It's a one-company town. Diversification be damned. Doomed to fail.

NYatKNIGHT

December 16th, 2008, 11:34 AM

The CRDA has established five primary characteristics that must be incorporated into all boardwalk architecture
"Must be incorporated". What's the point of this CRDA?

AC11

December 16th, 2008, 11:41 AM

I have seen plans and renderings, as well as real estate maps showing who owns what parcels.

And no I won't show them because:
1. I don't have copies, I have only seen them.
2. They are sensitive materials.
And 3. because you ITK, in all of your infinite knowledge would find 10 things wrong with it and nothing right.

Also - The presentation that Kevin DeSanctis gave to The 11th Annual Wachovia Global Real Estate Securities Conference showed many in depth renderings of the property, more than the six that keep getting passed around this board. There it showed many different angles of the property.

Intheknow

December 16th, 2008, 11:46 AM

The CRDA is a sham. I'll bet that if anyone audited the CRDA you would find massive corruption. How else could you justify 100 million dollars for new facades?? Think about it, you could build 100 million dollar homes and what are they getting? New facades that are taking years to finish. Who got that contract, I wonder.

The angle of Revel I currently see walking north on boardwalk is one big ass ugly parking structure, it's not a rendering it's real and it looks hidious. Across the street from this garage is an empty lot. Do you honestly think Revel is going to build up the surrounding neighborhood? All other Casinos in AC are now surrounding by empty lots and buildings, what makes you think Revel site will be any different? Once again you are listening to the BS of a Casino developer.

AC11

December 16th, 2008, 11:52 AM

another tantrum post by ITK...

Intheknow

December 16th, 2008, 12:05 PM

Another non-response from AC11. Keep on believing the Casino CEOs. This Revel may not even get finished and you're already talking about the surrounding area.

Fabrizio

December 16th, 2008, 12:07 PM

ACII: rather than discuss how things are said... discuss the points at hand. How about that?

What is the role of the CRDA and their requirements for B'walk frontage?

Why does Revel not adhere to it?

Is the cost of the new facade program excessive?

Etc.

Going on and on about the tone of posts goes no where. Discuss the issues.

----

As far as Revel: so let's see....

The wall by the road entrance - Dumb.
The all glass design - Tacky.
The two rectangular towers - Uninspired.
To your list, let's add: another mamoth parking garage on a beach block and main street.

You also say that "a good deal" of the B'walk will have store fronts. Look at the rendering: it is simply not true. And giving a large part of the Boardwalk frontage to a roadway and a private beach should be against zoning and design requirements.

(I do agree that the out-side terraces look great. It is unbelievable that after 30 years a hotel in Atlantic City will finally have them.)

But this (see below) is the kind of stuff that has forever damaged Atlantic City... and I don't see Revel doing much better:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v33/ronaldo/1039725979_8690a60dc5_b.jpg

----

acplayer

December 16th, 2008, 01:38 PM

AC11, great find for the Aces train. Exactly what A.C. needs, the ocean, motion and constant promotion. Ironically States Ave. used to be the most beautiful street on the island. The Showboat is an ugly monstrosity.

States Ave. 1899
http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh72/acplayerr/acstatesavefamily1899.jpg

Fabrizio

December 16th, 2008, 01:51 PM

So far, I am unable to find photos of States Ave. It had gardens down the middle of the street. It, like most of the glorious side-streets in AC, has been trashed by casinos that turn their back on the city. And that is exactly what Revel is doing.

giselehaslice

December 16th, 2008, 02:53 PM

You guys are rediculous! Granted, there are some design flaws of Revel. I can't understand most people's thinking on most of these things.

1) The company designed the curves in the boardwalk frontage in order to make a more interesting footprint, rather than the square BOX that all of you complain about. Oh well, I guess we"ll complain about how theres not enough retail frontage.

2)The curves in the building let customers enjoy the outside, something InTheKnow seems to really care about (ahem, your banter about parks) and let them breathe the sea air. Hopefully they'll put some gardens in or something.

3) Parking garage. I agree that they could have done a better job consealing the structure. I also understand that there are space constraints and they can't work miracles on 20 acres. It would be impossible to surround the garage with buildings, it would cut the rest of the design of the building up.

4)Glass tacky and dumb? Hmmm, well I guess that means that Burj Dubai, Freedom Tower, Comcast Centre and uncountable other important buildings are "tacky?"

5) Two rectangluar towers? Uninspired, maybe, but they cant build some squiggly squagly building on the ocean though, think about the wind...

Any more complaints? Im sure there are knowing you people.

Ninjahedge

December 16th, 2008, 03:38 PM

1. Curves mean nothing if you don't have anything to look at on them or in them. I have seen many a beach/boardwall wall that has been "curved". It does not do much by itself.

2. See 1. I don't see where the two were seperate items.

3. Why do these buildings need that much parking immediately available? You would think they would find ways to spread it and hide it a bit. Hell, if AC had any cajones, they would have made a community parking area and restricted the SF of parking on site for each of the individual casinos.

Make the parking lot easy to get to with trams and trains to take one around the city. The more you limit vehicular access, the more pedestrian a city becomes and the more the city feels like a whole rather than a bunch of individual constructions/attractions.

4. Glass, when just thrown up, is tacky. It has no real soul. Some shapes and designs can add to a landscape/view, but this looks to be a simple office building design. It has no accents, no details. It is all just a flat pane of glass.

And comparing its puny little rise to Freedom Tower or Dubai just don't fit. Think of some smaller buildings that are all-glass-clad and use them as examples.

5. Squigley squagley? C'maaahn! Yes they CAN do that. They can also build interesting geometric interactions, sloped surfaces, the whole 9 yards. This looks too 80's. Very simple and uniform, relatively cheap to construct and quick to build. They could do better.

SO the bottom line is not each individual point. I am SURE that if they had gone out of their way to include a walkthrough pedestrian mall and shops along the entire perimeter, that people would be less critical of the plain glass towers, but the fact that nothing is on nothing makes many here dissapointed in this attempt to make a giant gambling Humaniquarium.

Intheknow

December 16th, 2008, 04:14 PM

Revel is not even finished yet and it's already outdated. 2-3 BILLION dollars doesn't buy what it used to.

giselehaslice

December 16th, 2008, 04:15 PM

In my previous post I was not trying really to compare Freedom tower and Burj Dubai to Revel, just saying that glass is not tacky ('cause these building are not tacky, obviously.)

Another thing that really needs to be set straight. AC is not some town in the countryside of Italy, it's not a charming Cape-May esque type place, or any Buzios by any streach of the imagination. ITS FREAKING ATLANTIC CITY! Not what I would consider a world-class place, and I think some people here need to realize that when a nice new project, no matter how meagre of an improvement in design, is a good thing. I know some of you are going to come back and say "This is the type of thing that will keep AC a dump", but think about it. Are they going to build ornate structures (and spend millions) along mostly dead side-streets that nobody is really going to use? Would you want to walk down a street with slums on the other side (of the new ornate outdoor shopping area on the side street?)

Oh and InTheKnow, A bartender at The Chelsea told me he would buy a nice shot of shut the hell up for you.

Fabrizio

December 16th, 2008, 04:24 PM

This is the type of thing that will keep AC a dump.

Intheknow

December 16th, 2008, 04:35 PM

A world class city is the image AC is trying to project. Doing a real bad job.

Is the Chelsea still open? I know Bashaw emptied his office real quick.

giselehaslice

December 16th, 2008, 05:14 PM

Well will AC ever be world class? This I don't know, but my guess would be no.

Beleive me, I understand why some are upset and dissapointed about the way buildings are designed and their flaws. If I was hired to design a building, it probably would not look anything like Revel. The only thing that I do not understand is that almost nobody on this thread can find anything...anything..even somewhat redeeming about these projects. I mean you'll go on and on about how terrible the design is, but *forget* about the extra attractions, jobs and other beneficial things that it will bring along with it.

Intheknow

December 16th, 2008, 08:00 PM

You can build a better designed Casino AND still have employment etc..

They are now going to demolish the Old Post ofiice so they can widen the road for Pinnacle!! City officials are cheering this, unbelievable. Obviously there is no historical society in AC. (Press of ac).

Fabrizio

December 16th, 2008, 08:06 PM

Intheknow

December 16th, 2008, 08:29 PM

No loss? I guess you're right. They are demolishing by January, I see the road by 2020. We are gaining another empty lot in the City. Why tear it down without Pinnacle or the city being ready to build??? Anything pre-1960, tear it down!! This City is run by retards and con men.

zipburn

December 16th, 2008, 09:11 PM

There were WPA murals from the 1930's in the old Post Office that were great. Does anyone know what happened to them?

IMHO the old Post Office is no loss... but widening the street: wrong. They continue to destroy AC's city fabric.

They are being restored and placed in the new post office building on the corner of indiana and atlantic. There is nothing on that side of the street fabrizio. The carnegie library is still on the other corner and along with that hand garden.

zipburn

December 16th, 2008, 09:16 PM

Revel is not even finished yet and it's already outdated. 2-3 BILLION dollars doesn't buy what it used to.

hmm... last I checked prices are down on just about everything ..... do you live in the united states?

acplayer

December 16th, 2008, 09:23 PM

I disagree Fabrizio. I think the post office is a loss. Regarding the historic A.C. post office demolition, the Press should do an article on Senator Jim Whelan, Chair of the Senate Wagering, Tourism and Historic Preservation Committee and his record of historic preservation. The article can focus on why Whelan would be the Chair of a Historic Preservation Committee while under his watch as A.C. Mayor, councilman and Senator, Atlantic City demolished the historic and recently renovated (for millions of dollars) Reading Train Station, the Atlantic City High School on Albany (now a vacant parking lot), the old A.C. High School on Pacific Ave, (now a vacant parking lot), The Senator Hotel (now a vacant parking lot), the Chalfonte Hotel (now a vacant parking lot), the Friends School (now a driveway), etc... The list of demolished buildings that are now vacant or parking lots just goes on and on. What has Whelan done to preserve anything of A.C.'s architectural past that would qualify him to Chair a Historic Preservation Committee? For that matter, what has any A.C. politician done to preserve A.C.'s history? Why doesn't the Press do an in-depth article on how a city that had some of the most beautiful architecture in the world has allowed it all to be demolished to be replaced by mostly surface lots, despite the A.C. Master Plan saying otherwise.

http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh72/acplayerr/acpostofficenow.jpg

Old Post Office at North Carolina and Pacific
http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh72/acplayerr/acpostofficeold.jpg

zipburn

December 16th, 2008, 09:31 PM

Intheknow

December 17th, 2008, 08:08 PM

Take a picture of those areas Post offices stand now in five years. I'll bet they are empty, ugly lots.

It appears AC Gateway left town without leaving a forwarding address, another "Casino Developer" leaving abandoned buildings for all of us to admire for years to come. Same thing happens over and over again, are people that stupid in AC, I honestly think they are.

It's going to be real tough going for these Casinos, they better start marketing themselves and AC, the monopoly is over.

Hopefully the new train from New York helps.

Intheknow

December 18th, 2008, 05:32 PM

Atlantic City is just now figuring out that they have to drastically slash the budget, where have they been the last three months? This does not bode well for ACs infrastructure.

Have any of you seen Curtis Bashaw? If you do, tell him I want my ten bucks.

66nexus

December 19th, 2008, 01:56 PM

It's a sizable article regarding head-to-head arena venues (East Rutherford, Newark) and others...so I'll just post the paragraph regarding AC's main arena venue (2008).

"New Jersey had another winner as well — Atlantic City's Boardwalk Hall placed first among arenas with capacities of 10,000 to 15,000, with gross revenues of $26 million. Among smaller venues, Radio City Music Hall took in a dominant $98.4 million with 165 sellouts out of 281 shows." The link posted below:

http://www.northjersey.com/entertainment/music/Izod_Center_isnt_hurting_from_the_loss_of_the_Devi ls.html

Fabrizio

December 20th, 2008, 10:53 AM

On the subject of the Boardwalk Hall: it seems that modern day Atlantic City must uglify every architectural treasure still standing. Who are the geniuses who came up with the idea of plopping down miniature golf in front of this majestic building?

The area between the Hall and the curved colonnades was a huge plaza that was beautiful and worked perfectly. The space was used for temporary events, speeches, bands etc. It was a great public space and the classical colonnades curving out over the beach were wonderful to see and to walk along.

But this dignified space has been trashed up with a mish-mash of planters, lamp posts, stone dividers, synthetic grass and MINIATURE GOLF!

This is the way they do things in Atlantic City... pure class:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v33/ronaldo/767195232_2b6b01c99c.jpg

Trashed up and junky.... and in it's original glory:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v33/ronaldo/0u.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v33/ronaldo/09.jpg

zipburn

December 23rd, 2008, 01:30 AM

not looking good for this month, unless there is a real strong push with christmas-newyears, 12-15% decline is likely...jan. is looking scary, but there is nice setup for a decent/good feb. with the new train rolling in on schedule and the dust will have settled by then with regards to dec. thru mid-jan disappointment...

zipburn

December 23rd, 2008, 01:37 AM

a big, empty area where the homeless feed the piegons/seagulls or a mini-golf course, garden, and a performance stage.... i don't really see the glory in a bunch of bare planks of wood, but to each his own....

Fabrizio

December 23rd, 2008, 08:13 AM

The plaza in front of Convention Hall has existed since the 1920's... all through AC's glory days... it's beauty understood and appreciated.... but no surprise it's viewed today as nothing more than a place where the homeless feed the pigeons and in need of tarting up with astro-turf.

The extreme tackiness that is that mini-golf course is the kind of mentality that insures Atlantic City as 3-rate and poor. A blue Dennis hotel... a war monument and other junk blocking Brighton Park, the squalid "improvements" made to Garden Pier... the list goes on and on.

The inspiration for Convention Hall's curved colonnade was St Peters Square.... a big empty plaza.... just a bunch of stone pavement....I knew it was missing something: miniature golf!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v33/ronaldo/colonnade_at_st_peters_square.jpg

---

lofter1

December 23rd, 2008, 10:42 AM

Jersey Shore side note: The recently released film "The Wrestler" has a sequence shot on the Asbury Park Boardwalk and the derelict Casino building there.

acplayer

December 23rd, 2008, 11:17 AM

Also, if anyone wants to see some awesome shots of A.C., especially the Blenheim, then check out 'King of Marven Gardens' with Jack Nicholsen to see what A.C. looked like in 1972.

lofter1

December 23rd, 2008, 11:30 AM

And of course, there's Louis Malles' great Atlantic City (1980) (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0080388/) with Burt Lancaster and Susan Srandon.

Hmmmm ...

Three films in search of America venture to the once-enticing Jersey Shore and find the dream is no longer so bright :cool:

Intheknow

December 23rd, 2008, 12:34 PM

Don't forget HBO's "Hookers on the street" series- Classic AC.

Fabrizio

December 23rd, 2008, 02:10 PM

While they were filming Marvin Gardens on the beach, I just walked through the police barracade, on over to the set and hung out with Jack Nicholson, Ellen Burstyn, Bruce Dern and company for the day. I was a teen but I guess I looked like I belonged to someone because no one asked me what the hell I was doing there. What I remember most was how foul mouthed Nicholson was and how adult and sophisticated every one seemed to be. By 1972 he was a big star, but the others were not known to me.

I was here watching on: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_8PyEWC9zos

It should be noted that a lot of things in the film were made up, for example: the opening scene was filmed at unused tracks across the bay but made to give the impression of an Atlantic City train station. I remember them having drapes at the Dennis purposley stained, the Marlbough Blenhein is portrayed as empty, store fronts on the avenues changed etc.

Intheknow

December 23rd, 2008, 03:42 PM

barryrich.net/acnj/acnjindex.htm

Decent site for old and new pictures of AC.

JCexpert558

December 24th, 2008, 09:29 AM

After all this time I haven't been on this thread, there isnt any information posted about MGM grand, is the site dead now:confused:

zipburn

December 27th, 2008, 01:45 AM

dead..if i had to take a guess, 2.5 years and they break ground, the CCC still hasn't issued a statement with regards to pansy ho and mgm...

side note... i was in the pier on christmas... boy was that place packed, so was the boardwalk..i had to go up three floors higher than i have ever been in the new caesars parking garage to find a spot..

Intheknow

December 29th, 2008, 05:07 PM

Went to the walk on Christmas Eve Must say it has to be one of the top ten worst traffic designs in the nation. A billion dollars doesn't buy what it used to.

Revel is moving along slowly, still have my doubts on it's completion.

Nothing else appears to be coming up when it comes to development in AC.

Fabrizio

December 30th, 2008, 10:35 AM

Anyone know?: Did the "Chelsea Lite" section of the Chelsea Hotel ever open? Their web site says December 2008. Any news?

zipburn

December 30th, 2008, 09:11 PM

They offer a Chelsea "Lite" Kings on the weekends as a special, have been for a little bit now

zipburn

December 30th, 2008, 11:51 PM

on a positive note....the city has exceeded my expectations through the end of the month, it is quite encouraging... the hilton people are hating themselves right now...

Intheknow

January 2nd, 2009, 05:50 PM

Vegas is self imploding, if AC isn't careful they will be next.

zipburn

January 3rd, 2009, 11:39 PM

In slowdown, Atlantic City relies more on marketing and conventions

By KEVIN POST Business Editor, 609-272-7250

Published: Saturday, January 03, 2009

ATLANTIC CITY - The three women who answer visitors' questions have heard it all, yet there's always something new.

A guy asked Barbara Rhoads when the ferry would arrive. He had been waiting three hours for it at Iowa Avenue and the Boardwalk after seeing the word "ferry" on a city map with an arrow pointing southwest toward the Cape May-Lewes Ferry - 40 miles away.
A woman asked Joyce Cook which hotel she could stay in with her show rabbit.
Rhoads, Cook and Theresa Smith together have spent 50 years providing official tourism answers, mostly telling visitors about upcoming Atlantic City shows and conventions - first by phone, then by e-mail and since fall by live chat.

Those over 40 might wonder who would need or use live chat - conversing online in quickly typed text - when a toll-free number connects to the same person. The answer: a younger crowd valuable to this resort.

Along with live chat, the Atlantic City Visitors & Convention Authority has started tracking the locations of those with questions. Mapping those inquiries will tell the authority whether its marketing is hitting all of its targets.
With the casino industry in its first serious slowdown, there are more targets these days and new ways of reaching them. The authority's conventions and marketing used to be a nice addition to business - now it's a necessity.
"When the going gets tough, the tough get creative," said Jeff Vasser, president of the ACCVA.
Partnerships with big cities are helping the resort reach overseas markets. The long-desired Atlantic City Restaurant Week will happen soon. And new bookings will fill rooms and spread the city's new image.

The British are coming
Visitors from overseas must fly into Philadelphia or New York, so the ACCVA is partnering with those cities to reach international markets, according to Maureen Siman, vice president of marketing.
In the fall, Philadelphia and Atlantic City jointly hosted an exploratory visit by 10 British tour operators and a journalist.
British Airways comped the airfare and the visitors spent four days, dividing their time between the cities, Siman said.
The group finished up Philadelphia's history, art and shopping early, she said, to come here for the fun: the Madonna concert at Boardwalk Hall, spa treatments, dinner at the Knife & Fork Inn, and rooms comped by Harrah's Atlantic City.
"And they loved Lucy the Elephant! They thought that was the coolest thing," she said.
Upon returning to Britain, Andrew Bird of PurelyAmerica tours e-mailed back:
"I had not been to Atlantic City before and admit my perception of it was that it would be the older, run down, poor relative of Vegas. Well, you blew that out the window. ... It really does have the most perfect mix of everything people look for in a vacation - high-end hotels, cleanliness, shopping, nightlife, restaurants, attractions, spas and something that Vegas will never have and that's a wonderful beach."
More importantly, six of the 10 tour operators called back within a week to talk about booking specific dates, Siman said.

Discount dining
Jeff Vasser said that when he started on Jan. 1, 2006, as head of the ACCVA, he already had four e-mails urging the creation of a discount-dining festival for the area's restaurant.
"Restaurant week was an idea that had been on so many people's minds for so many years," he said.
Soon it will be on their plates. From March 1 to 7, the first Atlantic City Restaurant Week will feature many of the area's finest dining establishments offering special prix fixe lunches for $15.09 and dinners for $33.09.
"They didn't have enough restaurants before. Now, two years later, we have 70 restaurants participating," Vasser said. A list of them is at www.acrestaurantweek.com. (http://www.acrestaurantweek.com./)

New bookings
People coming to Atlantic City for a convention or group meeting tend to stay longer than overnight tourists and spend about $325 per day, said Gary Musich, ACCVA vice president of convention development.
As the gaming side has slowed and available hotel rooms has surged to more than 20,000, "demand for this kind of business has grown for all casinos," he said.
To meet that demand, the Convention Center has signed new groups for this year, including motorcycle-maker Harley-Davidson and franchiser Rita's Water Ice, he said.
Musich expects an extra boost from a new booking in June: "Antiques Roadshow," the PBS television show that explores the antiques and cultural heritage of various areas of the United States.
"We'll get great media exposure from that, and it will draw thousands of people," he said. "It will be a new type of experience for Atlantic City."
E-mail Kevin Post:
KPost@pressofac.com (KPost@pressofac.com)
Pulling in the crowds
Atlantic City conventions and groups each year:
Use about 150,000 rooms;
Rent 11.5 million square feet of exhibit space;
Draw about 450,000 delegates
who stay on average more than three days
and on average spend $325 per day. Source: Atlantic City Convention & Visitors Authority

Fabrizio

January 4th, 2009, 01:49 AM

Oh gee... we've just discovered conventions.

AC was, for the longest time, the top convention destination in the US, complete with the world's biggest convention hall.

It should be remembered that when gambling came in, top conventions (The Shriners, American Medical Association etc.) left the city. It also became impossible to book blocks of hotel rooms because the casino hotels reserved them for their gambler clients. Even the Miss America Pagent... a national convention of sorts, bringing big money into town... left.

So now we're back to square one. What geniuses.

---

The bit about tourists from "international markets" stretches credibility. Could you imagine: giving them a tour of AC would be like when the Cuban government gives a tour of Havana... let's not have our guests look too closely.

But have those tourists on their own.... in the day time... out on the streets, and believe me: they won't be back. Not in in today's market and with what other cities all around the world offer.

-----

Please watch this short clip about Atlantic City's convention business in the 1950's:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IjEjvWkFpcg