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Kris
May 28th, 2004, 01:07 AM
May 28, 2004

Staten Island, Start Your Engines: Nascar May Be On Its Way

By CHARLES V. BAGLI and ERIC DASH

For years, Nascar has sought to penetrate the New York metropolitan area, trying to build speedways in places like the Catskills and the New Jersey Meadowlands. Now, it has set its sights on New York City itself and is negotiating to transform a Staten Island industrial park into a major speedway on 440 acres of waterfront land near the Goethals Bridge.

Nascar speedways are phenomenally popular in the South and the Midwest, and the circuit has gradually moved to the Northeast in recent years. But establishing a beachhead right in New York City, where pedestrians and mass transit rule, would be a major coup as Nascar seeks to broaden its appeal.

Racing promoters have held preliminary discussions with economic development officials in the Bloomberg administration in recent weeks about building a 2.5-mile oval track at the vacant GATX industrial park, a onetime oil tank farm south of the Goethals, near several major highways.

David Talley, a spokesman for the International Speedway Corporation, Nascar's sister organization, confirmed that Staten Island was under consideration.

"Ever since we kind of looked away from the Meadowlands, we've been looking at other places," Mr. Talley said yesterday. "Staten Island is one we're looking at. We're looking at a couple of sites in New Jersey as well. We are nowhere close to breaking ground and building a facility."

International Speedway, the largest motorsports operator in the country, owns 13 racetracks, including Daytona International Speedway in Florida, Talladega Superspeedway in Alabama and Watkins Glen International in upstate New York.

The prospect of a Nascar track in Staten Island seemed to baffle some people in the borough who were questioned about the idea.

"Shocking. I wouldn't think they'd build a racetrack on Staten Island," said Babatunde Adedapo, 19, a Staten Island resident who is now a student in Massachusetts. "We're not really known for racing. New York City is not known for racing. Staten Island doesn't bring in any tourists. We have a baseball park, and no one goes there."

The area where the track would go is the site of a tank farm that GATX closed four years ago and put up for sale while simultaneously marketing it as an industrial park. William Hettler, a New Jersey real estate broker at Resource Realty who is handling the property, did not return calls requesting comment.

One executive who had been briefed on International Speedway's plans said that Staten Island was high on the list. "I do know it's a pretty serious effort," the executive said. "I think there's a possibility something could happen."

But even a vacant industrial site, which sits only a few feet above sea level, will pose challenges for Nascar. The property, which embraces about 100 acres of marsh, almost certainly requires some sort of environmental cleanup given its long history as a terminal for oil and other bulk liquids. Environmentalists have also sought to protect the wetlands from development.

New Jersey officials had spent a lot of time in the last couple of years trying to accommodate Nascar on a relatively tiny 104 acres at the Meadowlands sports complex, already home to a stadium, an arena, a horse racing track and lots of parking lots. At one point four years ago, the racing promoters were looking for a 750-acre site that could accommodate up to 300,000 fans.

"You've got to have a lot of land to park the Winnebagos," said George R. Zoffinger, president of the New Jersey Sports and Exposition Authority. "We tried to see whether it would work in the Meadowlands. But the huge amount of traffic on the three weekends a year they operate would be paralyzing to the northern part of the state. Local political leaders opposed it."

Mr. Zoffinger said he had heard that Nascar was now looking on Staten Island.

"I daresay they'll probably run into the same issues over there," he said. "About the only place it would work in New Jersey is southern New Jersey where there's less traffic congestion and you could build some infrastructure to get people in and out. But they wanted to be within eyesight of New York."

Members of the City Council from Staten Island said that interest in building a Nascar track in the area north of the Fresh Kills landfill had risen in the last two months, as the talks had gotten more serious.

"It's an intriguing idea that we would like to explore further," said Councilman Andrew Lanza, adding that he is planning to meet with International Speedway representatives in July. "At first you are concerned about the additional traffic and noise, but then you take a closer look at it, and you are only talking about a couple of events a year and you have a great facility that can be put to other uses."

The site is only a couple of miles east of the New Jersey Turnpike. A typical Nascar track can hold as many as 150,000 spectators, and at many sites across the country, the lines of cars during race days sometimes stretch for miles. That notion worries Councilman James S. Oddo, whose district includes the prospective site.

"We are an island that is clogged already. We have four bridges, and three are overutilized," he said, adding that the racetrack developers "better come forward with an attractive package or they will get booed out of town."

According to officials with knowledge of the proposal, the site's location along the West Shore of Staten Island mitigates some of those traffic concerns because it would allow visitors from New Jersey to enter the site from the West Shore Expressway without using Staten Island's streets.

International Speedway has asked city and state officials for cash grants and tax breaks for the project. One government official said they were listening, but "these guys are smoking rope. They're looking for subsidies for what can hardly be the highest and best use of the land."

Viv Bernstein contributed reporting for this article.

Copyright 2004 The New York Times Company

Zoe
May 28th, 2004, 10:35 AM
Not a big fan of the Nascar culture, but somehow it seems fitting for it to be in Staten Island. If NJ built this in the Meadowlands, the state would be smeared by NYers forever (not like they get off lightly now).

NewYorkYankee
May 28th, 2004, 11:38 AM
Not a big fan of Nascar either, but this would help Staten Islands Tourism....also help the tarffic nightmares. LOL

TLOZ Link5
May 28th, 2004, 02:39 PM
Yeah, but NASCAR?

NewYorkYankee
May 28th, 2004, 03:46 PM
well, New York City has everything else...why not a Nascar stadium....your right. Nascar dosnt belong in New York. Changed my mind. I hpe it dosnt come. LOL

krulltime
May 28th, 2004, 04:35 PM
:D This is good news! The SuperBowl is comming, Movie Studios are comming, The Olympics might come and now Nascar as well!!

What is going on all the sudden am I missing something or NYC is becomming not only internationally in business but the capital of the entertainment world?

Maybe I suren't stressed that far....

RedFerrari360f1
May 28th, 2004, 09:02 PM
Fck NASCAR, put an F1 circuit there. Thats atleast a sport with some class.

Jasonik
May 28th, 2004, 09:21 PM
http://www.amsport.hu/foto/forma/2003_f1_nascar/f1nas1.jpg

Kris
May 29th, 2004, 12:42 AM
May 29, 2004

Nascar's Possible Track Site Is Far, Far From Home

By MICHAEL BRICK

Rounding the last turn on the Staten Island Expressway, the southwestern stretch of the Brooklyn-Queens Expressway with a provincial name and an $8 admission fee, cars zoom past a slope of overgrown, mixed and unpedigreed vegetation that could be mistaken for kudzu.

The next exit, the last before this road crosses the Arthur Kill into New Jersey and requires another name, is Western Avenue.

New York City ends here, in a belt of muck and tar. It is in this place, in a vacant industrial park, that promoters of Nascar racing have considered building a speedway. Nascar has looked longingly at the New York area for years, and promoters said on Thursday that they had held discussions with the Bloomberg administration about building a track on Staten Island.

Street names, plant appearances, prices and roadway curves do not amount to much, but offer symbolic encouragement for the backers of a sport that cannot help but conjure images of the South and Midwest.

But to thrive in New York, Nascar racing - like monster truck rallies and prison rodeos - would have to overcome not only space constraints but also regional tastes.

There is hope. People dance, after all, to a lamentable disco recording of "Cotton-Eyed Joe" at Yankee Stadium. And yesterday, as Nascar's intentions were disclosed, Staten Island residents under the overpass signaled some desire to welcome racecar drivers and their fans.

There is already a track of sorts here, a loop that the truckers make under the low highway overpass, kicking up gravel and taking both lanes. Off the road, a path of red muddy clay cuts between man-tall brushes, past a discarded refrigerator, a box for sour candies, bottles of beer said to be lite and packets of ketchup said to be fancy.

The Goethals Bridge rises overhead, disappearing into an industrial park of wires, smokestacks and derricks. Signs abound, advising of prohibitions against standing, dumping, parking, trespassing, littering, entering, entering without a safety vest and so on. The roar of the planes leaving Newark Liberty International Airport is dulled by earthbound rattles, hisses, hums and bangs.

"The noise isn't going to bother us," said Jonathan Roper, 18, a painter, speaking of a racetrack.

He walked through a lot full of cars with bumper stickers that said their owners were proud to be Americans, and union iron-working ones at that. At the end of the lot, on the other side of the overpass, Scott Leschack, 34, was selling food and drink from a van stocked with coolers, a portable radio and The Daily News.

Mr. Leschack found this spot a few months ago, and he said he took it only after assurances that the previous vendor did not want to return.

"It's not a hard and fast rule," Mr. Leschack said. "It's more ethics."

He works at the restaurant at the end of New York City from about 7 a.m. until midafternoon, whenever the truckers and construction workers stop buying cheesesteaks, hot dogs and chocolate sodas. Yesterday, the day that television cameras made Mr. Leschack briefly famous for staking out the spot where the front gate might be on a speedway, he wore a patriotic T-shirt, a gold hoop earring and sandals.

"Myself, I'm not into Nascar," Mr. Leschack said. Still, "I can't imagine the business I could do. Just the construction would keep me in business."

Down the street in the Goethals Garden Homes -a trailer park where figurines decorate small yards, people take The Staten Island Advance and a dog named Cowboy is missing - Lucy Skiutto was less welcoming.

"That brings a lot of kids hanging around, driving fast and God forbid," Ms. Skiutto said. "We have enough traffic as it is."

Nate Floyd disagrees. He is the proprietor of N.Q.N. Tires, and his opinion of traffic is that it wears down tires, necessitating their replacement.

"We want the Nascar," Mr. Floyd said. "I do racecar tires, too."

Mr. Floyd came to the end of New York City from Charleston, S.C., and his embrace of Nascar should not be mistaken for a love of the South in general or Charleston in particular.

"You can have it," he said.


Alliance Is Discussed for Auto Race Track

By VIV BERNSTEIN

CONCORD, N.C., May 28 - The president of one of the country's largest Nascar racetrack owners said on Friday that his company had held preliminary discussions with a competitor about teaming up to build a track in the New York area.

The president, H. A. Wheeler of Speedway Motorsports Inc., said a joint effort with International Speedway Corporation would help overcome the high cost of building a track. Even then, Mr. Wheeler said, the project would need significant assistance from local and state government.

He could not estimate the cost of a track in the New York area, saying it would depend on location.

But, Mr. Wheeler said, "I would say, in general, to build a track in that area would probably, I don't know if it would double the cost, but it would be at least 50 percent" more than a track built, for example, in Texas.

Speedway Motorsports spent $250 million on Texas Motor Speedway in Fort Worth, which began Nascar racing in 1997.

"I think whoever builds a track in New York or New Jersey is going to have to have tremendous assistance from the municipality and on a state level to do it or it'll never be done," Mr. Wheeler said while at Lowe's Motor Speedway in Concord, N.C., near Charlotte.

Racing promoters have sought to penetrate the New York metropolitan region for years, and have held discussions with the Bloomberg administration in recent weeks about a track at a vacant industrial park on Staten Island.

It would be an unusual alliance between Speedway Motorsports, which owns six racetracks, and International Speedway, Nascar's sister corporation. The two companies had feuded for years, and a stockholder in Speedway Motorsports sued International Speedway in 2002 to try to get a second Nascar race date in Texas.

That lawsuit ended earlier this month when International Speedway sold North Carolina Speedway to the other company and the race there was moved to Texas.

Mr. Wheeler said a track in New York would probably be a mile to a mile and a half with seating for 90,000 to 100,000. Many Nascar tracks are about a mile and a half. The Pocono Raceway in Long Pond, Pa., one of the tracks closest to New York, is two and a half miles.

Copyright 2004 The New York Times Company

dbhstockton
May 29th, 2004, 02:09 AM
SI is a good location for Nascar fans in Central/South Jersey. Just a quick hop over the Outerbridge for the South Edison/Woodbridge/Sayreville/Old Bridge types.

Kris
July 18th, 2004, 01:14 AM
July 18, 2004

Speedway Company Faces Major Obstacles in Plan to Bring Nascar to S.I.

By CHARLES V. BAGLI and ERIC DASH

Four million cubic yards of silt from the bottom of New York Harbor would be needed to raise the height of the property so that it would not be underwater during severe rainstorms.

The site, once home to an oil tank farm, would have to be certified as environmentally clean.

The muskrats, herons and ibises and other not-so-endangered species in 100 acres of marshland would have to be protected. And a way would have to be found to move an estimated 80,000 fans to and from the site, which is surrounded by crowded highways, three weekends a year.

Those are the major hurdles facing the developers who hope to turn a 600-acre parcel near the Goethals Bridge on Staten Island into the ideal site for a Nascar speedway with a ¾-mile oval track, an 80,000-seat grandstand and a 500,000-square-foot shopping mall.

International Speedway Corporation, the nation's largest motor-sports operator, is working on the project with Related Companies, a major New York real estate developer. International Speedway has hired a small army of real estate lawyers, engineers and lobbyists, and, according to a local official, it recently offered $100 million for the property. The proposed project, which must go through the city's land use review process, has drawn mixed reviews from residents and landed in the hot soup of Staten Island politics.

But whatever the roadblocks, promoters have long sought to bring Nascar racing, hugely popular in the South and Midwest, to the potentially lucrative New York City area.

"I remain optimistic, as do all of us at the company, that we will ultimately have Nascar Nextel Cup racing in or around New York City," said John Graham, vice president for business affairs at International Speedway. "We continue to be very, very interested in Staten Island. But it continues to be very much under study."

State and city officials have been studiously neutral, although at least one official, who requested anonymity, said he expected the project to die of its own weight.

The Staten Island borough president, James P. Molinaro, has taken a wait-and-see approach to the project. He said that the president of International Speedway, Lesa France Kennedy, told him recently that the company had offered $100 million for the now vacant waterfront tank farm owned by GATX, about 450 acres, and an adjoining parcel.

Mr. Graham, GATX and Related's president, Jeffrey Blau, would not confirm the dollar figure. Mr. Blau did say: "We have reached an agreement on a deal to purchase the land, although no contract has been signed. We'll try to acquire as much land as possible surrounding this property."

The proposed Staten Island track would be smaller than the famous 2.5-mile racetrack at Daytona Beach, Fla., but Mr. Graham said it would be comparable to the company's Richmond International Raceway in Virginia. As part of the joint venture, Related would build a shopping mall similar to its two-year-old Gateway Center in East New York, Brooklyn, which includes Target, Home Depot, BJ's Wholesale Club, Circuit City and Red Lobster.

Mr. Molinaro said that many people on Staten Island like the raceway proposal, although most elected officials say they have not made a formal decision whether to support it. Guy V. Molinari, the former borough president turned lobbyist, has been promoting the project on behalf of International Speedway and trading pot shots with Assemblyman Robert Straniere, who likens the project to a "scheme park" and has raised concerns about the track's impact on traffic, the local economy and the environment.

(Mr. Straniere is being challenged in the Republican primary in September by Mario Bruno, a candidate backed by Mr. Molinari, and by Vincent Ignizio.)

"It seems very much like a harebrain scheme, or what my mother would call a schnapps idea, to me," said Councilman Michael McMahon, whose district encompasses part of the site. "On the other hand, they have an impressive set of credentials."

There are significant concerns about the race-day traffic on the Goethals Bridge and Staten Island's already crowded roads. The site of the 80,000-seat stadium would have parking space for just 10,000 cars, so many Nascar fans, often from areas where RVs are more common than mass transit, would be forced to rely on public transportation.

International Speedway officials have proposed elaborate fast-ferry and park-and ride schemes, even suggesting the construction of a small light-rail system on an existing right-of-way along Staten Island's north shore to shuttle in visitors from the surrounding areas.

A recent study of the potential economic benefits of a similar 75,000-seat speedway in the Seattle area estimated that the new track there would generate up to $122 million in economic activity. But the impact would probably be somewhat smaller in New York, where more racing fans are likely to be day-trippers, said Tim Hogan, a retired economics professor at Arizona State University, who conducted a similar impact study for the Phoenix International raceway.

The Staten Island site itself, once home to 82 oil storage tanks, presents a number of challenges. In 1999, GATX, a transportation equipment leasing company, closed the tank farm and put the land up for sale. It has nearly completed cleaning the site of petroleum contamination, according to state officials.

But much of the land sits at or below sea level. To combat potential flooding problems, the developers have talked to state environmental officials and the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey about dumping up to four million cubic yards of silt from the harbor dredging project onto the property to raise the height of the land anywhere from three to six feet.

There are also environmental issues, with conservationists saying that more than one-third of the proposed site is covered by sensitive wetlands. Even if the racing developers could carve a track away from those protected marshes, it will still sit on one of 15 sites in the metropolitan area designated as a significant coastal fish and wildlife habitat.

E. J. McAdams, executive director of the New York City Audubon Society, said, "It's a big loss of habitat and potential habitat that serves as a foraging ground and nesting area for many wading birds, like the heron, egret and ibis."

Copyright 2004 The New York Times Company

Kris
August 8th, 2004, 06:46 AM
August 8, 2004

A Real New York Speedway

Looking for a way to expand around the country, Nascar now has its eye on Staten Island. The Nascar team is studying a site near the Goethals Bridge which once housed an oil-tank farm but is now abandoned territory. There are environmental issues, like protection of nearby wetlands and assurances that the site has been properly cleaned up. But the big problem is the traffic - not on the track but on the overloaded roads around it. Staten Island, overdeveloped but underserved by decent transportation alternatives, has some of the worst traffic problems in the metropolitan area. Bringing in another 80,000 people could only make that mess worse.

If the traffic issue could be resolved - and that seems an almost insuperable "if" - the idea sounds intriguing. Nascar officials estimate that they would use a track in New York City on two to four weekends a year, not counting trials or some other smaller events. That leaves a lot of time for footraces for cancer or student athletics or other community uses. And the idea of turning New York City residents into Nascar moms and dads has some appeal for those of us tired of hearing that New Yorkers don't understand the ways of heartland America.

Negotiations for such an addition to New York's sports fare are still at the early stages. As is almost always the case, that means the potential benefits of the plan have been made clear while the potential cost to the taxpayers is still murky. All the possible pluses will vanish if the deal comes with a big bill attached.

In another pattern we've seen many times before, advocates tend to speak grandly about the possibilities of using mass transportation to resolve the traffic miseries a big sports facility would create. Any plan that would increase the bus or ferry options available to Staten Island in general would be worth discussion, although on first glance it's very hard to imagine tens of thousands of fans taking public transit to car races. Nevertheless, if Nascar and Staten Islanders could protect nearby wetlands and find a magical way to unsnarl the traffic, a racetrack could be just the ticket.

Copyright 2004 The New York Times Company

billyblancoNYC
November 10th, 2004, 01:28 AM
This is why you build something like this...

The race for NASCAR
Sport looks to expand in Northwest
http://www.heraldnet.com/Stories/04/4/4/18398914.cfm

Herald Writers

They looked across the river in Kansas City, Kan., to their better half in Missouri, and saw skyscrapers and stadiums. But on the Sunflower State side, there was nothing that had put them on the map.

In Joliet, Ill., an hour south of Chicago, they were already nationally known, but not for the right reasons. Their biggest claim to fame was the prison, made memorable by the movie "The Blues Brothers."

Four years has changed much.

Now, both areas are flush with newfound fame -- and money -- among the gasoline fumes and checkered flags. Today, the two towns are home to NASCAR's newest racetracks, the Kansas Speedway and Chicagoland Speedway.

Snohomish County officials hope this will be the next area to be transformed by motor sports and its economic exhaust.

International Speedway Corp., the company that owns 12 of the nation's major motor-sports facilities -- including the Kansas and Illinois speedways -- is looking to expand into the Pacific Northwest.

The company is eyeing locations in Washington and Oregon, and local leaders have been meeting regularly with International Speedway representatives in the hope they will pick Snohomish County for the track.

Undisclosed locations near Marysville and Monroe are being promoted, but those areas face stiff competition from sites in Kitsap and Thurston counties.

The stakes are sizable. Speedways hosting NASCAR races see Super Bowl-sized jackpots.

For Marysville, that could mean a chance to step out of the economic shadow cast by the Tulalip Tribes' Quil Ceda Village, the burgeoning shopping mall and casino just across I-5 that will one day include a hotel and amusement park.

"We're looking for economic development. That's no secret to anyone," said Mary Swenson, Marysville's chief administrative officer. "Our citizens are screaming for services that we can't afford."

A motor-sports facility with NASCAR events would pump millions into the regional economy.

"There's no doubt there will be economic benefits," Swenson said.

The racing facility would span hundreds of acres and would jump-start new businesses to serve racing fans. NASCAR events typically draw crowds of 80,000 or more.

"There's a lot of area that's going to develop. To have it develop under one developer really brings some unique opportunities," she added.

The reason for building a track in the Northwest is simple, said David Talley, an International Speedway spokesman.

"We feel the Pacific Northwest is an untapped market as far as NASCAR goes," he said.

NASCAR has 75 million fans nationwide, and the closest company-owned track is the California Speedway near Los Angeles. The closest track that hosts NASCAR's premium Nextel Cup races is in Sonoma, Calif.

International Speedway executives want to start racing in the Northwest by 2008. Talley said the company has to consider many things, including available acreage and infrastructure.

"If you are to build a facility with 85,000 people, you're going to need the roads to handle that many people," he said.

Other amenities are also important. A typical NASCAR fan will drive 300 miles to see a race, coming in on a Thursday and staying until the main event on Sunday. Many visitors also want entertainment near the track, such as malls, an amusement park or a big-city experience.

A deadline for selecting the Pacific Northwest track site hasn't been set.

"We haven't gone in and said, 'We want to get a deal done by this date,' " Talley said.

"It's got to be the right fit," he added. "We're not going to build a $500 million facilityif it doesn't make sense."

That also means the company will be looking for financial enticements from city, county and state governments.

"We'd love to get some help at all levels," Talley said.

Government officials know they'll have to offer incentives to make Washington the front-runner, as was done to land the Boeing Co.'s 7E7 program.

"They're not going to locate it here unless the state does something for them," Lt. Gov. Brad Owen said.

That "something" would be a financial aid package to ease the cost of constructing the track and grandstands, improving roads and extending utilities.

The pivotal piece is likely to be tax-increment financing, which would funnel sales or property taxes generated at the site back into the project to pay the bills. But there's a hitch: State law doesn't allow such financing, and the state constitution bans using property taxes for that purpose.

Past attempts to change the law -- but not the constitution -- have failed.

Sen. Tim Sheldon, D-Mason County, plans to try again in January. "That will be the guts of the bill," he said.

While it is a form of public financing, Sheldon said, it does not siphon existing taxes and would be different than the means used to help build the Seahawks and Mariners stadiums in Seattle.

Further, depending on what site is chosen, key routes may need improving sooner than state legislators had planned. Such a reshuffling of priorities won't come without debate, because it could delay work in other regions.

For local lawmakers, the pressure will be conducting a speedy review and approval of any proposal.

"We have to deliver when they pick a site," Sheldon said. "We can't sit around two years wringing our hands."

Assuring International Speedway leaders that won't happen underscores the competition among counties vying to be the home of a track. At least 10 sites are under consideration -- five in Snohomish County, one in Kitsap County and four in Thurston County.

Leaders insist it's a friendly battle.

"It's not, 'Please put it in Snohomish County, Kitsap County or Thurston County,'" said Owens, who will hold public hearings on the track proposal once a site has been chosen. "It's, 'Please let us help you put it in Washington state.'"

Snohomish County Executive Aaron Reardon said: "I will support wherever NASCAR decides to go. I believe it's good for Washington state. It is a competitive process, and I plan on being damn competitive."

Deborah Knutson, president of the Snohomish County Economic Development Council, said while the county is competing with others, she hasn't focused on what the rivals might offer. Instead, she said Snohomish County needs to work hard on its own proposal, an approach used in luring the 7E7 to Everett.

"The focus is on how can we put forth the best business package," she said.

Jeff Boerger, president of the Kansas Speedway, understands what local officials are facing in the struggle to land an International Speedway facility. He was on the economic development team that brought the company to Kansas.

"The Kansas taxpayer has about $50 million invested in this project," Boerger said.

Bonds were sold to pay for the project and are being paid off by sales and property tax revenues generated by the speedway.

It's been a safe bet, however. The speedway has spurred an economic boom from the start.

"We saw an economic impact immediately during the construction phase," Boerger said, which meant 2,000 new jobs and a construction payroll of $50 million.

"We have sold out each of our races since day one," he added. "The impact has been tremendous."

It's estimated that 70 percent of the speedway's race fans come from outside the Kansas City area. And an economic study was done to see how restaurants, hotels and other businesses were benefiting from the track.

"Just after our first year, we generated roughly $150 million into the Kansas economy," he said.

The $250 million speedway has been in business for four years. It seats more than 80,000 spectators and can be expanded to 150,000.

On land near the track, roughly $500 million in retail development is going in. A major movie theater and an outdoor mall spanning a million square feet are under construction.

Although there are just two major NASCAR weekends held each year at the track, it generated revenue on 210 days last year.

The impacts have gone beyond the economy in Joliet, said Matthew Alexander, general manager of Chicagoland Speedway, which he said has been a boost to the blue-collar region's morale and image.

The town was trying to move away from its industrial past, and local leaders wanted to make the area an entertainment destination.

The $130 million raceway, a 75,000-seat facility on 930 acres, has grown in popularity since it opened in 2001. "We've sold out every year," Alexander said.

How would a major speedway fare in Snohomish County?

While estimating how much money a NASCAR track would pump into the county economy is impossible, those who have studied the economics of sports agree the amount would be huge.

The Checkered Flag Task Force, which includes officials from the state and from the Puget Sound counties under consideration by International Speedway, has commissioned a study of the impact. It's due out by midmonth.

Talley estimated the construction phase alone would have an economic impact of approximately $230 million. Once the facility is operating, he anticipates $220 million annually in business revenue. While only a few dozen year-round jobs are likely to be created, thousands of vendors, small business people and companies would benefit from the seasonal crowds.

"It will be lucrative for almost anyone, whether it's in Washington or Oregon," said Paul Swangard, managing director of the University of Oregon's Warsaw Sports Marketing Center, which studies the business of sports.

As Talley said, it's not much different than the economic impact of annually hosting the Super Bowl. One study found that International Speedway-owned Phoenix International Raceway injected more than $270 million into the state's economy in 1999, compared with about $300 million generated when Phoenix hosted the Super Bowl in 1996.

To compare, look at the economic ripples created by the Seattle Mariners. When Seattle economist Dick Conway studied the major league baseball team's contribution to the state economy in 1994, he found the team brought nearly $142 million in business revenue and created 2,249 jobs.

But only about a third of the revenue created by the Mariners is considered "new money" -- or money that comes from out of the area. That is, if the Mariners left Seattle, most of the money would still circulate in Washington's economy but would go toward other forms of entertainment.

"The economic impact of professional sports teams often is money that would have been spent in the region anyhow," Swangard said.

Even though the opening of Safeco Field and growing interest in the Mariners in Japan has brought more tourists to Seattle, Conway said much of the team's revenue still comes from a limited area.

"The crowd is largely, I think even today, from the central Puget Sound region," he said. "NASCAR tends to draw from a larger pool."

Because those major racing events attract a large percentage of out-of-town and out-of-state fans, they bring in more new money than the average sports team.

Knutson added that building a retail center around the track would also boost the economy. Unlike the track itself, which might host relatively few events a year, the retail complex would be a constant attraction.

"You can then look at that retail sales tax coming in year-round," she said.

Even though Swangard is skeptical of some of the economic figures being cited, he said the opportunity is too tempting for any area to pass up.

"It would still be worth going after," he said. "For what will amount to a low-impact development that will not be used more than a few times a year, the economic impact is significant."

In Snohomish County, the site near Marysville is shaping up as the local favorite because of its proximity to I-5. Marysville has prepared a proposal for International Speedway that even suggests a name for the track -- Great Northwest Speedway.

Since no deadline has been set, the talking will continue.

"There are a lot of different pieces that have to fall into place before we take the next step," Talley said. "I think the dialogue will continue with all the sites. "Where we land has to make sense for us."

Reporter Brian Kelly: 425-339-3422 or kelly@heraldnet.com.

NewYorkYankee
December 2nd, 2004, 03:57 PM
NASCAR Track Wouldn't Increase S.I. Traffic, Proponents Say

DECEMBER 01ST, 2004




Proponents of a plan to build a NASCAR racetrack on Staten Island say the proposed facility would have a minimal effect on traffic in the area. Amanda Farinacci filed this progress report on the project.

A widened toll plaza at the Goethals Bridge. Two new ramps on the West Shore expressway. Road improvements and a fast ferry to Staten Island's south shore. That's what Staten Islanders can expect if a NASCAR track comes to Bloomfield.

What they shouldn't expect, according to the International Speedway Corporation, is lots of unmanageable traffic.

"There are only 8,400 cars that are going to be allowed to park on the facility during a race weekend, which is only three times a year," says NASCAR consultant John D'Amato. "And that's 8,400 cars on a weekend, which is not a peak traffic time. It's workable."

Workable, supporters say, because of a comprehensive plan for managing traffic and transportation to and from the proposed arena. Using a traffic plan developed specifically for the heavily-congested borough, spectators will have to choose their transportation when they purchase tickets - they can drive if they get one of 8,400 parking spots, they can take a chartered bus from Manhattan or New Jersey, or they can hop on a fast ferry, which the speedway corporation would build.

"Every fan knows how they're getting to the race on the day of the race, because we control the way you get there," explains D'Amato. "You cannot buy the ticket unless you buy your mode of transportation to get there. It's a package."

The International Speedway Corporation plans to purchase the 675-acre space by the end of the month. Besides the 80,000-seat NASCAR facility, its plans include a 50-acre retail center and the preservation of 245 acres of wetlands. The ISC says they'll offer the arena to the borough for charity events and holiday festivals when it's not being used for racing.

Supporters say their plan makes the best use of some of the most valuable industrial space in the entire city – and they urge opponents to look at the alternatives if the NASCAR plan doesn't go through.

"There are so many different options for this property to be developed that may very well have a more negative impact on the community 365 days of the year," D'Amato says.

Still, not everyone is sold on the plan.

"I don't see how this benefits the Staten Island community to the degree that I would take the risk of the traffic problem," says city councilman James Oddo.

Though they're skeptical, local leaders say they're willing to hear more details – and the ISC says it will work with the community to refine the proposal.

billyblancoNYC
December 3rd, 2004, 02:57 AM
The plan makes sense, especially the ferries, etc. But, why do they need so much land? 245 left alone, 50 for retail, so almost 400 for a track?

Also, are there any tracks that are both NASCAR and Formula 1?

jiw40
December 6th, 2004, 06:37 PM
Watkins Glen is a road course,and Riverside? in Calif.Don't know if they're F1 though.

JCMAN320
December 6th, 2004, 08:48 PM
Indanapolis Motor Speedway is one of which Ive seen an F1 race this past June.

ZippyTheChimp
December 6th, 2004, 09:23 PM
Indy Motor Speedway is the new home of the U.S. Grand Prix, missing from Amercia for about a decade. The track is re-configured for F1 racing.

http://www.usgpindy.com/trackmap/index.php

I think race drivers should have to make at least a few right hand turns.

Riverside and Watkins Glen are both F1 courses. After Sebring in 1959, the Grand Prix moved to Riverside, and then to Watkins Glen.

Hof
December 11th, 2004, 10:56 AM
When I was a lot younger and I was occupied with growing up,I lived in Upstate Rochester and developed an affinity for the sportscar,an addiction I'm hobbled with to this day.
I took a Driver's school at Watkins Glen and earned an SCCA Competition license.My buddy and I raced an Austin Healey 3000,and never won a damn thing,but we had an expensive summer and we'll both carry bitter memories to the grave.
We went everywhere to watch cars do things.Went to Indy,3 times;to Mosport in Quebec for F1;to Mid-Ohio and Bridgeport and The Glen for sportscar runs--where,until the money ran out,we would actually compete.
When I lived in Manhattan,I carried my car Jones too far,and was guilty of keeping an MGB on the streets of the City.My sentence was final and irrevokable.Forfeiture by theft of MGB.For 5 years,I had no car,I let my driver's license expire.(I used the SCCA one) and I lost interest in car things.
When I moved South,my Doctor found the NASCAR gene in me,and prescribed going to races as a "cure",but I OD'd on the stuff and started going to as many as I could,like a short-haired Deadhead from the Previous Century.The car Jones was back,and I was tripping,like the old,pre-NYC days.
Been to ALL the tracks--Daytona,Homestead,Charlotte,even Vegas,and while the competition is great to watch,after the race the occasion turns into a real pain in the ass.
The only reason this post is so rambly is because I think NASCAR would be horrible for New York.And New Jersey.
The aftermath of any NASCAR race is a stultifying traffic jam,a transplanted FDR "rush hour' that lasts longer than the race that just finished.Sometimes,in the rural areas where a lot of tracks are located,being in a humungous,endless,hours-long traffic jam becomes an ironic memory of New York traffic.A little taste of home,under a Southern Moon.
The absolute LAST thing Staten Island needs to do is generate incredible traffic several times a year and deliver it to the entire surrounding areas.
NASCAR fans ALL drive to their races,and they pack mile-square parking fields with millions of oversize trucks and SUVs--and a tailgate party is going on at each of them.If you worship at NASCAR's altar,you have to drive there.
If you have ever watched 70,000 vehicles trying to sudenly all go in the same direction at the same time--well,you've been to NASCAR parties.
NOBODY TAKES THE BUS!You just can't carry a lot of beer on the bus.

NewYorkYankee
December 16th, 2004, 12:45 PM
Land Bought To Build NASCAR Track On Staten Island

NY1

DECEMBER 16TH, 2004


NASCAR fans are closer to getting their fix on Staten Island.

International Speedway Corporation has purchased part of the land where a proposed track would be built.

The company paid $100 million dollars for the 450-acre site in Bloomfield, and it plans to buy an additional 236 acres.

If the project passes a feasibility study, the company says, the 80,000-seat racetrack could be finished by 2009.

Kris
December 25th, 2004, 12:10 AM
December 25, 2004

Nascar Buys a Site on S.I., but Racing Is 5 Years Off

By ERIC DASH

Nascar promoters spent $100 million to buy a vacated 450-acre industrial site along the Staten Island waterfront last week but said it would be at least five years before racing begins in New York City.

International Speedway Corporation, the motor sports operator backing the project, said that it has closed on the purchase of about two-thirds of the 660-acre proposed site. It plans to build a $440 million complex on the site, with a three-quarter-mile track and a grandstand that seats 80,000 people.

By the end of January, it expects to spend another $10 million to buy the remaining land, where Related Retail Corporation, a New York City real estate firm, plans to develop an adjacent 620,000-square-foot shopping center.

The site, an old oil-tank farm just south of the Goethals Bridge and off the West Shore Expressway, was described by International Speedway as the largest block of undeveloped land in New York City. It said it was the most it has ever spent on a car-racing site. The move is a strong indication of how important Nascar feels it is to have a presence in the city and a beachhead in the Northeast as it expands nationwide, International Speedway said.

"It shows how serious our commitment is toward developing this site as a world-class speedway," said John Graham, International Speedway's vice president of business affairs. "We are taking some risk in purchasing the site prior to the land-use approvals being obtained. We felt comfortable doing that."

This month, it began the environmental assessment process, which could entail at least three years of land-use surveys, commission hearings and committee reviews to complete. Then, there are at least two and a half years of construction.

Officials hope to bring racing to the island by 2009 at the earliest, Mr. Graham said.

He acknowledged that there are still plenty of roadblocks in the way. For one, the Staten Island site is a natural habitat for birds like egrets and herons, and will include as many as 100 acres of marshland. Under the law, developers would be required to create three new acres of marshland for every acre the track would use.

The developers would also have to shovel four million cubic yards of silt from the bottom of New York Harbor so the property is high enough to avoid flooding in severe rainstorms. And officials would have to figure out how Staten Island's congested roads could handle the additional traffic caused by the tens of thousands of racing fans.

Then there is borough politics. Even with the assistance of the Molinari Group, a lobbying firm headed by the former Staten Island borough president Guy V. Molinari, International Speedway officials did little to win over politicians with a recent PowerPoint presentation that asked them to choose between two visions for the prospective site: a glitzy new Nascar track or a gray industrial wasteland.

"That was rather offensive to us," said City Councilman Michael McMahon, whose district encompasses part of the site. "We don't take kindly to threats."

He said that he recently sent a letter to the Regional Planning Association, a nonprofit planning organization, asking it to help evaluate the proposal and offer alternate uses for the land. "We know Staten Island is good for Nascar," he said. "The question is: Is Nascar good for Staten Island?"

Copyright 2004 The New York Times Company

billyblancoNYC
December 25th, 2004, 01:59 AM
December 25, 2004

Nascar Buys a Site on S.I., but Racing Is 5 Years Off

By ERIC DASH

"That was rather offensive to us," said City Councilman Michael McMahon, whose district encompasses part of the site. "We don't take kindly to threats."

Copyright 2004 The New York Times Company

Hey, sheriff Mike, please shut your mouth. What a clown.

Kris
January 25th, 2005, 01:09 AM
January 25, 2005

Progress Is Seen in Effort for Staten Island Racetrack

By VIV BERNSTEIN

CONCORD, N.C., Jan. 24 - The first Nascar Nextel Cup event on Staten Island could be held by the end of this decade if plans to build a racetrack there continue on schedule.

"We're incredibly optimistic," Lesa Kennedy, president of International Speedway Corp, said Monday. "We've put a lot of resources behind it. We're moving forward.

"Dream scenario would be yesterday. But realistic scenario is the latter part of the decade"

Land has been purchased for construction, but Kennedy, the sister of Brian France, the Nascar chairman, said that the process of obtaining a permit to build could take up to two years. Kennedy said the goal now for I.S.C., the sister corporation of Nascar, was to convince local officials and residents that a plan to manage traffic was viable.

"It's a challenging proposition," Kennedy said at a Nascar news conference here at the research-and-development facility. "Any time you build a facility of that size in a community, you need to educate everyone as to how the overall plan will work for bringing in traffic and that sort of thing. That's what they're doing now, one-on-ones with a lot of officials there."

Several officials, including Mayor Michael R. Bloomberg, have been invited to attend Nascar races in the past year as part of the sales pitch.

Although Bloomberg has not accepted, Kennedy said James P. Molinaro, the Staten Island borough president; Michael McMahon, a city council member; and the state assemblymen Michael Cusick and John W. Lavelle were among those who had attended Nascar races. "Once you get them to an event, it's such a different experience," Kennedy said. "Once they get there, their eyes light up, and this is like any other sporting event."

Kennedy said I.S.C. also continued to look at properties in the Pacific Northwest, including Seattle, for track sites.

Copyright 2005 The New York Times Company

BigMac
June 1st, 2005, 02:27 PM
Newsday
June 1, 2005

SPEEDWAY IN THE CITY
NASCAR looks here

RESEARCH BY JUDY WEINBERG AND ANDREW WONG

Poll: Would you support a plan to bring a NASCAR speedway to the city? (http://www.nynewsday.com/news/local/brooklyn/nyc-nasc-poll,0,808590.poll?coll=nyc-swapbox1)

Illustrations of the proposed Staten Island NASCAR track:
http://www.nynewsday.com/media/photo/2005-06/17824364.jpg

http://www.nynewsday.com/media/photo/2005-06/17824365.jpg

http://www.nynewsday.com/media/photo/2005-06/17824366.jpg

http://www.nynewsday.com/media/photo/2005-06/17824368.jpg

Gentlemen, warm your engines.

It's nowhere near a done deal, and some say it's a tall order, but the folks who brought NASCAR fans the famed Daytona speedway are pushing plans to bring stock-car racing to New York City.

International Speedway Corp., which owns 11 NASCAR tracks, including Daytona, has paid $100 million for a 450-acre former petroleum farm in Staten Island, hoping to convert it into a state-of-the-art speedway.

The project, which envisions a retail center and transportation enhancements, is undergoing traffic and environmental reviews. Some city councilmen have expressed skepticism about the traffic impact on a borough known for congestion.

But can V-8s and carburetors hold the interest of subway-riding denizens?

Demographics seem to indicate so. New York City is NASCAR's fourth largest market, and the proposed track is expected to draw 60 percent of fans from the metro area.

A. SPEEDWAY

Oval track would be 3/4 miles long. Grandstands accommodate 80,000, while 64 luxury suites would seat 2,500 more. Sound barriers along the edge of the speedway should keep noise down. On non-race weekends, site would be open for community events, festivals and concerts.

B. FERRY DOCK

A crucial part of the traffic plan. High-speed ferries would take fans to and from other parts of the metro area.

C. WETLANDS

Some 240 acres would be restored, with hiking trails put in. Can the city take more noise? Promoters say it wouldn't have to, thanks to sound walls that would muffle the roar of a typical 40-car field.

D. BUS / SHUTTLE PARKING

To avoid traffic mayhem, the majority of fans would use mass transit. There would be shuttles to and from the ferry dock to the west.

E. RETAIL CENTER

620,000 square feet of chain stores and restaurants would create 1,200 full-time jobs, promoters say. A landscaped buffer would separate the retail area from surrounding wetlands.

F. PARKING / RECREATIONAL AREAS

Grass fields would accommodate 8,400 cars for those who choose to drive to the track. Would be used as sports fields on non-race weekends.

No room for vrrrooom

Can the city take more noise? Promoters say it wouldn't have to, thanks to sound walls that would muffle the roar of a typical 40-car field.

Decibel levels (dB):

110 dB Car horn
107 dB Jackhammer
92 dB Subway
88 dB Car alarm
80 dB Delivery truck
78 dB Highway traffic
67 dB NASCAR track from nearest neighborhood
60 dB Normal conversation
40 dB Residential area
30 dB Whisper

Getting there

What to do if you have 95,000 people and only 8,400 parking spots? Log on, promoters say. Service on Park n' Sail ferries and Park n' Ride carpools would be available on clickandpark.com, where fans could buy tickets and parking at the same time. This system would give directions to off-site ferry and carpool lots.

Mode of transit / Expected users:

Park n' Sail 33,500
Park n' Ride 29,400
Car 20,200
Bus 11,900

Racetracks around the U.S.

A look at where the NASCAR race tracks are located around the country.

1. Chicagoland Speedway Joliet, Ill.
2. Indianapolis Motor Speedway Indianapolis, Ind.
3. Michigan International Speedway Brooklyn, Mich.
4. Watkins Glen International Watkins Glen, N.Y.
5. New Hampshire International Speedway Loudon, N.H.
6. Pocono Raceway Long Pond, Pa.
7. Dover International Speedway Dover, Del.
8. Martinsville Speedway Martinsville, Va.
9. Richmond International Raceway Richmond, Va.
10. Lowe's Motor Speedway Concord, N.C.
11. North Carolina Speedway Rockingham, N.C.
12. Darlington Raceway Darlington S.C.
13. Daytona International Speedway Daytona Beach Fla.
14. Homestead-Miami Speedway Miami, Fla.
15. Atlanta Motor Speedway Hampton, Ga.
16. Bristol Motor Speedway Bristol, Tenn.
17. Talladega Superspeedway Talladega, Ala.
18. Texas Motor Speedway Ft. Worth, Texas
19. Kansas Speedway Kansas City, Kan.
20. Phoenix International Raceway Phoenix, Ariz.
21. California Speedway Fontana, Calif.
22. Las Vegas Motor Speedway Las Vegas, Nev.
23. Infineon Raceway Sonoma, Calif.

Not just for the good ol' boys

Mindful of its image as a Southern, white male, bluecollar sport, NASCAR touts its growing, changing U.S. fan base of 75 million, about a quarter of the population. A breakdown of fans:

By gender:

Women - 40%
Men - 60%

By race:

Black - 9.1%
Hispanic - 8.6%
White / other* - 82.3%

* Including all races non-black or Hispanic

By income:

Over $50,000 - 42%
Under $50,000 - 58%

By region:

West - 19%
Northeast - 20%
Midwest - 24%
South - 37%

North meets South

How would this marriage of New York and southern cultures work? A comparison of the big city vs. the heart of NASCAR Nation, North Carolina, where 90 percent of the teams are based.

BOAST: Culture capital/NASCAR capital
MARQUEE ARENA: Yankee Stadium/Lowe's Motor Speedway
SPORTS LEGENDS: Joe Dimaggio, Willis Reed, Joe Namath/Dale Earnhardt, Richard Petty, Sugar Ray Leonard
BY THE WATER: Coney Island/Outer Banks
COMFORT FOOD: Pizza by the slice/Hominy grits
EXUDES: New York attitude/Southern charm

RESEARCH BY JUDY WEINBERG AND ANDREW WONG

SOURCE: INTERNATIONAL SPEEDWAY CORP.; NASCAR; STATEN ISLAND CHAMBER OF COMMERCE

Copyright © 2005, Newsday, Inc.

RedFerrari360f1
June 1st, 2005, 04:40 PM
Anyone know if there are plans to have the center have an F1 able track?? The American Grand Prix in NY would eb awesome to watch. im not so big on NASCAR, but wouldnt mind it if it could hold an F1 event.

BigMac
February 22nd, 2006, 10:54 AM
Staten Island Advance
February 20, 2006

NASCAR's vision embraces a mammoth retail center

Track developer's partner eyes project similar to one it built in Brooklyn

By JOHN ANNESE
STATEN ISLAND ADVANCE

Along the Belt Parkway in East New York stands Brooklyn's largest retail center -- a nearly half-mile strip of superstores framed in orange brick and green trim.

A BJ's Wholesale Club rests on one side, a Home Depot on the other, and seemingly every other major big box store sits in between.

That same setup might end up on the Island's West Shore, if the proposed NASCAR track in Bloomfield gets built.

The Related Companies, a politically connected firm with ties to the Bloomberg administration, is partnering with track developer International Speedway Corp. on the track project. Related built Brooklyn's complex in 2002, and company officials say they'll likely use the same model for the 620,000-square-foot retail space they plan for the speedway land.

But the stores the Island might get remain a mystery.

"At this point, it's too early to tell. I think the market's going to dictate," says Robert Ursini, senior vice president of Related Retail Corp.

Based on Related's other retail projects, though, BJ's would be a good bet.

Related has included a BJ's in its in Brooklyn and College Point, Queens, retail centers, and it plans to build another at the site of the old Bronx Terminal Market.

Brooklyn's center also includes a Marshalls, a Circuit City at least twice as large as the store's New Springville branch, Old Navy, Famous Footwear, Staples, Bed, Bath & Beyond and Target, all in a row. A Babies "R" Us stands alone on the other side of the property, as do Red Lobster, Olive Garden and Boulder Creek Steak House.

TRAFFIC CONCERNS

The potential traffic impact of that kind of lineup has City Councilman Michael McMahon calling the retail center a "Trojan horse."

During a peak Saturday shopping hour, the developers expect more than 1,800 cars coming into the center, and another 1,500 leaving.

"It's the element that's sort of been presented as a gift, and no one's really looked at it. And it may end up being a thing that has a very serious impact on traffic and quality of life," McMahon (D-North Shore) says. "It's right at the crossroads of the Staten Island Expressway and the West Shore Expressway, and will impact Forest Avenue and Richmond Ave."

McMahon also worries that the retail traffic might break the back of the Island's infrastructure on race weekends, when another 8,400 cars and at least 643 buses will descend on the track.

But the developers downplay the possible burden, saying much of that traffic would be on the road anyway, heading to New Jersey's big stores.

They also contend the road improvements they'll put in place for raceday events -- including new on- and off-ramps on the Island's two expressways -- will be able to handle retail traffic. On race weekends, the developers predict in their traffic plan, fewer customers will show up because they'll be deterred by "the unusual race day travel conditions."

Even if the track ultimately gets shot down by the City Council, Related could still bring a retail center to the Bloomfield site, though it likely wouldn't top 270,000 square feet, Ursini says.

The property may be zoned for manufacturing uses, but home improvement stores, book sellers, and small clothing stores can still be built without special permission, Ursini says.

IS THERE ENOUGH NEED?

Traffic aside, opinions vary on whether Staten Island could handle more big-box stores and franchise restaurants.

After all, the borough's already got three Home Depots, a Lowe's, a Kohl's, and a cornucopia of major chains along Richmond and Forest avenues.

Target's also on the way, and Wal-Mart is trying to establish a presence here.

"The fact is that you're spreading out the population of these big-box stores," says Zane Tankel, CEO of Apple-Metro Inc., the franchisee of the borough's three Applebee's and one Chevy's restaurants. "It goes on and on and on. Where do all these people come from?"

Tankel says he's seen a decrease of guests in his restaurants recently, as more food franchises set up shop on Staten Island.

Related's retail center would probably succeed, he says, since people tend to flock to the newest shopping complexes, but other Island stores, including the Staten Island Mall, would take the hit.

"Everyone's gain is someone else's loss. That's just reality," he says.

Commercial real estate broker Del Smith doesn't see it that way.

"I don't think it'll affect the Mall one iota," says Smith, who runs the Island-based J. Delbert Smith and Associates. "Economically, if you look at the structure here, we could basically build another million square feet on Staten Island."

"It'll come, and it'll work," he says.

Staten Island Mall representatives did not return phone calls seeking comment.

Still, Tankel's not the only one who sees the borough not being able to support more big boxes and franchises.

"They're eating themselves. I think Red Lobster's going to take away from TGIF's. Applebee's is going to take away from Boulder Creek," says Ken Tirado, the owner of Killmeyer's Old Bavaria Inn in Charleston and a member of the Staten Island Restaurant and Tavern Association.

Tirado's not worried about his restaurant's business, but he sees how chain restaurants, with their massive parking lots, make things difficult for "your average tavern with a kitchen."

And he laments how national chain stores are draining the individuality from suburban communities.

"So much of the United States, and I've driven cross-country several times, it all looks like Route 1/9 in New Jersey," Tirado says. "You see the exact same stores over and over again. They're all on the sides of the highway."

John Annese is a news reporter for the Advance. He may be reached at annese@siadvance.com.

© 2006 Staten Island Advance

splicing
February 25th, 2006, 09:37 PM
Is there any interest in this forum to discuss, in greater detail, the impact of the proposed track on the entire NYC area? Including the details ISC doesn't report to the press?

ablarc
February 25th, 2006, 09:52 PM
Using ferries to get people there seems pretty promising. A festive day out for all New Yorkers in the borough that no one ever visits. I'm sure the market exists.

splicing
February 26th, 2006, 11:30 PM
Using ferries to get people there seems pretty promising. A festive day out for all New Yorkers in the borough that no one ever visits. I'm sure the market exists.
I agree. The ferry plan does has promise.

ISC's plan is to transport about 34,000 people by ferry from seven ports around the metro area.
What if I told you that 5 of the 7 ports lack sufficient parking by a total of 2735 spaces?
The other two consist of Harborside Financial Center (Jersey City)- which no longer operates a ferry service and Pier 11 (Manhattan) where zero parking facilities will be provided for the proposed 12,100 passengers.

ablarc
February 27th, 2006, 10:57 AM
What if I told you that 5 of the 7 ports lack sufficient parking by a total of 2735 spaces?
I'd ask you if those ports had rail or bus access.

Let folks park further out.

splicing
February 27th, 2006, 11:51 PM
I'd ask you if those ports had rail or bus access.

Let folks park further out.
Good question. Yes, most do.

But, without changes (paid for by the public), weekend schedules would prove to be woefully insufficient to move the numbers that are proposed.
Anyway, that's not how ISC is portraying their plan. Remember they can't make it an epic journey for fans just to get to and from the track.

ISC has also shifted the burden of providing these projected parking spaces onto the parking lot owners by obtaining "letters of intent" for future expansions. Yet, in no way do these letters address the feasibility of expansion or the time-frame for it to be carried-out. They're merely "letters of intent".

ablarc
February 28th, 2006, 07:37 AM
^ That makes it sound not too good. We'll end up with a whole lot more parking lot area --empty most of the time. Bad urbanism.

VDiMiceli
March 4th, 2006, 02:27 AM
Put Commuters in Pole Position

By VINCE DIMICELI
Published: January 15, 2006
JUST because Nascar and its fans are car enthusiasts, that doesn't mean the proposed Nascar track on Staten Island has to add to the island's traffic problem. In fact, if Nascar could help finance the revitalization of the oldNorth Shore line of the Staten Island Railway, the track's construction could improve area transportation.

The line, which has a West Shore spur that runs through the heart of the track site in the Bloomfield section, ended passenger service in 1953 when buses were a viable - and less expensive - option to train service. The city owns the property, but hasn't worked toward reopening the line. Meanwhile, the West Shore spur, along with part of the Arlington Railyard, is being rehabilitated to once again accommodate freight service from the Howland Hook Marine Terminal and lug garbage out of the island's new rail waste-transfer station at Fresh Kills.

With all this work going on, and with Nascar already heavily invested and desperate to get into New York City, islanders should demand that they get dividends. And those dividends should include a direct rail link to Manhattan.

If this sounds crazy, consider something crazier: the island is the only place in the tri-state region that doesn't have direct train links to Manhattan. Nascar's track could put an end to that.

The North Shore line, with its connection to New Jersey via the Arthur Kill Lift Bridge, is the key. Reopen the line from the St. George Terminal, and you instantly give residents on the island's North Shore - along with any fan who shows up at a race - easy, quick and car-free access to the Staten Island Ferry. Then take things a step further: connect the lift bridge to Amtrak's Northeast Corridor line, and you're half-a-dozen stops from Penn Station without changing trains. Staten Islanders would then have their fastest commute to Midtown in history (along with a rail link to Newark Liberty Airport), and the Nascar track would have a connection to the nation's rail system and an international airport.

Islanders could further benefit from more transportation investment: run a spur of the active South Shore line from the Pleasant Plains station along the West Shore Expressway (like the AirTrain to Kennedy International Airport along the Van Wyck Expressway) where it can hook up with the Nascar line near Fresh Kills. This would create a rail loop around Staten Island, giving the majority of islanders access to the train. Finally, lay about two miles of track through Fresh Kills Park to the Staten Island Mall, where you could end up with a centrally located park-and-ride terminal with the eight-lane Richmond Avenue feeding into it.

Commuters could then shop at the mall after work, pack their purchases in the trunk of their cars and drive home.

Who would oversee such an undertaking? Given the Metropolitan Transportation Authority's lack of interest in the island, this seems like the perfect job for the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey, which operates Howland Hook as well as the island's three vehicular bridges to New Jersey, one of which - the Goethals - the Port Authority is bent on twinning or replacing. Islanders should insist that if a new bridge is built alongside the Goethals, the existing structure be used for passenger-only train service, thus alleviating any conflicts the passenger service would have with freight operations.

But it would take a big business with a lot on the table to get the ball rolling. According to The Staten Island Advance, Nascar's new $4.48 billion television deal hinges on the island track. With that in mind, I would say that ball is in Staten Island's court.

Vince DiMiceli is the senior editor of "The Brooklyn Papers."

splicing
March 4th, 2006, 07:46 AM
The revitalization of the North Shore Railway has been kicking around for many years. The fact is, the entire length (about 6 miles from St. Georege to Arlington) is in extremely poor condition or doesn't exist anymore. BP Molinaro stated that the cost of revival would be $1 million per foot of rail line property.

Even though NYC still owns the right-of-way, the tracks run directly through private property (Caddell Dry Dock), SI's road salt storage pile, and abandoned wharehouses. Or, the land doesn't even exist anymore - having succumb to the Kill Van Kull.

I doubt that a NASCAR track would bring along funding for such a project.

Here's a few of the photos that I took back in December:
http://img.groundspeak.com/user/48b05f3f-4a85-4a0f-bd9a-612236499609.jpg

http://img.groundspeak.com/user/d908dbe6-f581-46d2-aab4-ce15e4364aed.jpg

http://img.groundspeak.com/user/10b4196a-2f33-4bce-9b27-bd51050a93b5.jpg

http://img.groundspeak.com/user/c167d90c-c9be-4635-899e-8f0eec13a11d.jpg

http://img.groundspeak.com/user/969236a4-8562-4c17-ac2d-ebf3afb0be0e.jpg

VDiMiceli
March 4th, 2006, 11:51 AM
The fact is, the West Shore spur runs right through the Nascar site, and it's idiotic that trains aren't being considered as a way to get people there.

While the present right-of-way is in bad shape, it's still a right-of-way, so no one would be losing their "private" land.

Ferries running through the Kills would be a disaster, because it's one of the bussiest shipping lanes in the world, and also seems prone to oil spills, like the one that happened last month, closing the Arthur Kill.

The only way to keep cars off the island is to offer an alternative, and I think a Long Island Railroad/MetroNorth-type service to Manhattan would be a good incentive for Islanders.

I don't think Nascar should pay for the whole thing, but they should considering making a proposal for a rail link to New Jersey and Newark airport — something that could be done rather easily — to get the ball rolling.

splicing
March 4th, 2006, 09:57 PM
The fact is, the West Shore spur runs right through the Nascar site, and it's idiotic that trains aren't being considered as a way to get people there.

While the present right-of-way is in bad shape, it's still a right-of-way, so no one would be losing their "private" land.

Ferries running through the Kills would be a disaster, because it's one of the bussiest shipping lanes in the world, and also seems prone to oil spills, like the one that happened last month, closing the Arthur Kill.

The only way to keep cars off the island is to offer an alternative, and I think a Long Island Railroad/MetroNorth-type service to Manhattan would be a good incentive for Islanders.

I agree with all points.

The fact is also, the West Shore spur and the lift-bridge (next to the Goethals Bridge) are being revamped for SI's waste transfer station and commercial goods transport. There are no plans for passenger service.

VDiMiceli
March 4th, 2006, 10:14 PM
I wouldn't be surprised if, in a few years, the West Shore spur will be used to transfer ALL the city's garbage out by rail.

Right now, some Staten Island coucilmen are trying to get a written agreement that the transfer station at Fresh Kills — which could easily handle barges from the rest of the city — be used only for Staten Island trash. Of course, there facing resistence. Here's another fact: Staten Island is the only place in New York City (and south of Albany, for that matter) with a freight rail link across the Hudson. Being that freight rail is the city's preferred method to move trash, looks to me as if Staten Island will again be the city's dumping ground.

This is yet another reason to push for passenger service along the line: to make it as difficult as possible for the city to use the line to move out all of it's garbage.

Why none of this info can be found in the Staten Island Advance astounds me.

By the way, great pics of the old North Shore line.

NIMBYkiller
March 5th, 2006, 01:58 PM
NASCAR would be an excellent reason to add to the list of reasons to re-open the North Shore line. And all the property that it runs THROUGH seems to be industrial, nothing residential, so we really shouldn't have to worry too much about NIMBYs or politicians fearing loss of potential votes.

The ROW is there for the most part, more than anyone could ever ask for when trying to find a new ROW for a rail line.

Regular commuter service could consist of your loop plan plus St George-Manhattan(BTW, I doubt this would be all that much faster than the existing ferry-subway or express bus options, but I haven't actually ridden them. I'm only saying this b/c the route is very circutious). On race days, run the same service, along with direct trains from NYP to the NASCAR track with the stops at Newark and the airport.

VDiMiceli
March 5th, 2006, 04:56 PM
As long as you limit your stops in Jersey, the route wouldn't be that bad time wise.

Express buses have gotten much better since the opening of the SUV lane along the Gowanus Expressway. But the buses increse traffic on the Island during the rush hours.

A train could alleviate that traffic, thus making life on the Island a bit better.

And a conncection to Newark isn't such a bad thing for Islanders either.

NIMBYkiller
March 6th, 2006, 12:56 AM
Well, technically, the buses could alleviate the traffic, which is what they're meant to do, but a train could do the job MUCH better and MUCH more efficiently.

BigMac
March 6th, 2006, 11:52 AM
Staten Island Advance
March 6, 2006

Bloomberg speaks in favor of NASCAR

For first time, mayor voices concern over business that might use Bloomfield site if track isn't built

By TOM WROBLESKI

Mayor Michael Bloomberg yesterday spoke favorably of NASCAR as a potential economic boost for the city and for the first time expressed concern about what type of business might move onto its proposed site in Bloomfield if the racetrack is not built there.

"There are other uses for that land which may create worse traffic jams than the three weekends a year NASCAR wants to do," Bloomberg told reporters yesterday after marching in the Staten Island St. Patrick's Parade.

In some of his most expansive comments yet on the proposed 80,000-seat track, Bloomberg called NASCAR "one of the most popular sports in this country."

But the mayor said he has yet to be convinced that the Island's roads could accommodate the traffic that the racetrack would generate.

"I like the idea that someone is willing to invest in New York City," Bloomberg said. "I like the idea that people that want to go see NASCAR will be able to do it here. I don't like the idea of more traffic."

Bloomberg did not say yesterday whether he supports the project or not.

In the past, Bloomberg has said he is not a personal fan of NASCAR, and that it is Islanders who should decide if they want the track built here.

He has also said the city would not spend public money on the track.

Despite Bloomberg's concerns about potential alternate uses for the site, the Advance last month reported that a city official had told NASCAR lobbyists that the Bloomfield property would not be suitable for a warehouse or industrial center, either of which would generate a large volume of daily truck traffic.

International Speedway Corp., which wants to build the track, has been slammed recently for its plan to close several highway on-ramps on race days, and for failing to inform City Council members and others that a helipad capable of accommodating dozens of helicopter trips on race days would be built at the track.

Bloomberg yesterday said the Island's roads can't handle the vehicle traffic they have now, and that expanding the borough's road system "is very problematic."

However, Bloomberg added, "More traffic is a problem of success that we have to deal with. Most places would really love to have this project."

Councilman Michael McMahon (D-North Shore), who has been sharply critical of the track proposal, said Bloomberg "sounds a little more open to the NASCAR idea," but added, "I don't think the mayor has really sat down and worked through the details of this proposal."

McMahon said, "Knowing the amount of cars, the problems that we see at this point, I don't know if he'd be willing to endorse the proposal."
Tom Wrobleski covers politics for the Advance. He may be reached at wrobleski@siadvance.com.

Copyright 2006 The Staten Island Advance

NYatKNIGHT
March 6th, 2006, 01:56 PM
Related thread about Staten Island development and transit:
http://www.wirednewyork.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3336

splicing
March 6th, 2006, 10:06 PM
All of this talk about reviving the railway is great. But, who's going to pay for it?
Even if BP Molinaro's estimate is twice the true amount, it would still cost about $16 billion - far too expensive for ISC, NYS, or NYC.

Here's a few more photos.

This is where the tracks enter the property of Caddell Dry Dock - right through the gates:
http://img.groundspeak.com/user/270bcb41-5dc0-4a2d-bbd4-23b23d9ddfd9.jpg

Here's the salt pile. We're standing on the rail bed:

http://img.groundspeak.com/user/cfb04d20-6566-4677-aef6-465d359e0719.jpg

Here's some aerial photos of our position at the start of the salt pile (X) and where the tracks run through abandoned buildings.

http://img.groundspeak.com/user/2a0546fb-fabb-4eec-b4f2-1d0301dea428.jpg

http://img.groundspeak.com/user/efe35560-4de3-428c-81bc-4f97ca1ce869.jpg

http://img.groundspeak.com/user/87cdca59-cc0c-4420-9be2-9e800388e018.jpg

http://img.groundspeak.com/user/5ddf7486-f3ca-423b-86fe-2b5e4915ace4.jpg


Still think it can be done?..........

VDiMiceli
March 7th, 2006, 01:33 AM
The short answer: Yes.

Love all the photos, especially the aerial shots.

But just because there is salt on the tracks or a fence on them doesn't mean it can't be done. The point is, the right of way is there, and it can be built.

And it should be.

The cost, as with any public project, is always a factor. In the end, it would have to be Federally funded. And, obviously, ISC wouldn't be expected to pay for all of it. But they should consider it.

If they're willing to build a ferry terminal and invest in infrastructure that will only be used to race days, they're selling the Island a pig in a poke. The ferry terminal would be absolutely useless for Islanders.

Instead of simply saying "yes" or "no" to the project, Islanders should be asking "What's really in it for us?" Right now there's not much outside of the national recognition the the track will bring to the Island, which means little in terms of dollars and cents.

Now, if ISC would push for a train with a connection to Manhattan and Newark Airport, along with the Ferry Terminal at St. George, the Island reaps tremendous benefits from the get go. I think those on the "no" side — especially those living in the Arlington area which would be affected most — would have to reconsider.

That area, which would essentially have a one-seat, half hour commute to Manhattan, would see property values skyrocket. Areas closest to the tracks would see a building boom. The city would earn more money in property taxes, etc.

The only way to get it done is with pressure from Islanders themselves. Pressure on our elected officials. Pressure on ISC. And pressure on the Port Authority, who are already refurbishing the tracks, and as I stated in my op-ed, hell-bent on twinning the Goethals. If they're going to do it anyway, insist they make room for a train.

With the right leadership, it can be done. And it should be done.

NIMBYkiller
March 7th, 2006, 07:59 PM
I agree, those photos are only more encouraging.

splicing
March 7th, 2006, 09:44 PM
Don't get me wrong. I think that the North Shore Railway would be a major plus to Staten Island. I'm just very pessimistic about it actually happening and put even less faith into a plan that involves ISC.

antinimby
March 7th, 2006, 10:48 PM
Truthfully, I wouldn't want the city to spend too much money on mass transit in Staten Island. Staten Islanders are generally against growth, so why spend that much money to make it convenient for the few people (relative to the rest of the city) there. It is simply not worth it. Besides, better transportation will only bring in more unwanted people, something I know Staten Islanders are afraid of.
There are many, much more pressing transportation needs in the city. Invest money in the other boroughs and build it where it will serve a lot more people.

VDiMiceli
March 8th, 2006, 12:42 AM
Truthfully, I wouldn't want the city to spend too much money on mass transit in Staten Island. Staten Islanders are generally against growth, so why spend that much money to make it convenient for the few people (relative to the rest of the city) there. It is simply not worth it. Besides, better transportation will only bring in more unwanted people, something I know Staten Islanders are afraid of.

This is, without question, the worst excuse for not providing mass transit on the Island that I have ever heard. It sounds like a letter to the editor of the Staten Island Advance circa 1940. (Yes, I've looked it up.)

It is not Staten Islanders' fault that their mass transit is the worst in the city. It is the city's fault. Islanders didn't shut down the North Shore and South Beach lines of the SIRT, the city did, when it chose to run buses along Island streets instead of keeping up the two lines.

Granted, there were Staten Islander that didn't want a rapid transit connection to the rest of city, but their point became moot the second the Verrazano-Narrows Bridge was opened. At that point, the city was connected, and the only way to get around was cars or buses — both sharing the same limited streets.

As for better transportation bringing "unwanted people I know Staten Islanders are afraid of," well, I don't know where you're from, but are you speaking from personal experience?

I know plenty of people who live on the Island who would be ecstatic if they could get to Manhattan by train. Wouldn't it be great to go to a show on Broadway and not have to worry about having to wait half an hour or an hour for a late-night boat?

And as far as Staten islanders being "against growth," all across the city — and especially in Brooklyn — neighborhoods are being downzoned to protect their character. It's not only happening in Tottenville, it's happening in Bay Ridge, Bensonhurst and Dyker Heights.

And let's get back to my original point: There's no way to get people to the Nascar track without adversely affecting vehicular traffic on Staten island without a train connection to Newark, the Northeast Corridor, and a re-activation of the North Shore line.

The train, by definition, will keep cars off the streets.

And it would do a hell of lot of good for Staten Islanders.

Jake
March 8th, 2006, 01:05 AM
NASCAR in NYC! YES! Finally I won't be the only Republican here! :D

NewYorkYankee
March 8th, 2006, 01:11 AM
I'm somewhat Republican. Moderate.

VDiMiceli
March 8th, 2006, 02:04 AM
Don't get me wrong. I think that the North Shore Railway would be a major plus to Staten Island. I'm just very pessimistic about it actually happening and put even less faith into a plan that involves ISC.

Why are Staten Islanders so fatalistic?

Didn't we get the landfill closed?

antinimby
March 8th, 2006, 03:24 AM
I guess I need to explain myself further. In an ideal world, where we can get mass transit built on the cheap, I wouldn't hesitate one second in wanting to see trains and rails on SI, as I myself believe in its benefits over automobiles. But unfortunately, it's unbelievably costly (a previous post mentioned $16B, I think) and so I'm just weighing the cost vs. benefits. The benefits, while there is always some, simply do not outweigh those of the other boroughs. It's not a borough vs. borough thing. Even if I was a SI resident, I would feel the same way. I look at the benefit to the city as a whole. But all this discussion is really moot since it's probably close to impossible to get mass transit development anywhere in the city. Look at how difficult it is even to get the Second Ave. subway extension.



As for better transportation bringing "unwanted people I know Staten Islanders are afraid of," well, I don't know where you're from, but are you speaking from personal experience?Actually, from what I see, hear and read, that's the impression I get. Now if your idea of experience is, have I been going door-to-door and asking every SI'der what their opinion is? No, of course I haven't. But really, that sentiment isn't any secret and I'm sure even you'll agree that's true.


I know plenty of people who live on the Island who would be ecstatic if they could get to Manhattan by train. Wouldn't it be great to go to a show on Broadway and not have to worry about having to wait half an hour or an hour for a late-night boat?We'd all like a lot of things but that doesn't mean we should all get what we want, right?


And as far as Staten islanders being "against growth," all across the city — and especially in Brooklyn — neighborhoods are being downzoned to protect their character. It's not only happening in Tottenville, it's happening in Bay Ridge, Bensonhurst and Dyker Heights.That maybe so (which I don't support btw) but regardless, they still outnumber SI in population and that's enough to justify mass transit improvement in Brooklyn, Queens and the Bronx before SI.

splicing
March 8th, 2006, 07:28 AM
Why are Staten Islanders so fatalistic?

Didn't we get the landfill closed?
Yes. And it only took 53 years to accomplish.

ablarc
March 8th, 2006, 08:23 AM
Does that answer your question?

Dale
March 8th, 2006, 07:57 PM
Let me just say something to all whom I mention. Splicing, I believe that in order to take aerial photographs of a metropolitan area, you need a city or state issued licence. If you do have one, forgive me for the above accusation. If not, I advise you to stop before the city stops you for four to six years-with or without parole. Bigmac and Krulltime seem to be the only ones who can make any sense on the matter. Bigmac used Decibal (dB) levels to convince while Krulltime brought up the idea that if the track is built, NYC could see future olympics. Krull was the name of my favorite Teacher, Mr Martin Krull, who taught me 7th grade honors math. Speaking of math, if you go in depth and assume that the track will be available to local sports teams like High school football for games in the off-season, the track will pay for itself in anywhere from 3-10 years, even if the city took about a million dollars in profits a year. Redferarri360f1, I wish to tell you that:
a; Most short tracks, speedways and superspeedways can easily be configured for Formula one racing.
b; Though I find you calling Nascar a sport without class, I forgive for it is a very common prototypical assumption that a sport dominated by White, Southern-accented "country boys" is without or almost without class.

oh yeah and splicing fck is easil recognisable as the F-word

splicing
March 8th, 2006, 10:15 PM
Let me just say something to all whom I mention. Splicing, I believe that in order to take aerial photographs of a metropolitan area, you need a city or state issued licence. If you do have one, forgive me for the above accusation. If not, I advise you to stop before the city stops you for four to six years-with or without parole.

There's nothing to worry about, Dale. The aerial photos are available online for free: http://local.live.com/
Just zoom in to any location, choose "Bird's Eye View" and zoom in again.
Scary, eh?




oh yeah and splicing fck is easil recognisable as the F-word
I'm not sure what you're referring to, Dale.

NIMBYkiller
March 8th, 2006, 11:33 PM
There's no way in hell that there is a law saying you need a liscence to take ariel photos of a metro area.

Jake
March 9th, 2006, 12:09 AM
^ heh, yeah NYC helicopter tours take up people every 30 minutes, that's a lot of violations!

I think what you might be thinking of is that you need
A) a permit to have your aircraft in that air corridor and
B) to shoot video for a movie you need to clear that with the Mayor's office

ZippyTheChimp
March 24th, 2006, 07:58 AM
Proposed Nascar Track Dividing City's Smallest Borough

BY ALICIA COLON - Special to the Sun
March 24, 2006
URL: http://www.nysun.com/article/29762

A proposed Nascar racetrack on Staten Island has split New York's smallest borough and is the dominant topic of discussion at community board meetings.

At the monthly meeting of the pro-Nascar Mariners Harbor Civic Association, Mayor Bloomberg was asked for his opinion. Although he said he agrees that the racetrack would boost business, Mr. Bloomberg said that before signing on, he would have to know how the traffic situation would be handled. "That's a very big problem," he said.

Earlier in the week, the South Beach Civic Association voted unanimously to oppose the track after hearing from the president of Staten Island Citizens Against the Track, Ronald Lauria. "There's 457,000 people on Staten Island and 267,000 cars. That's a higher concentration than any other borough," he said.

Additional opposition to the Nascar project, which would be the largest stadium in the city, is coming from residents concerned about the environmental impact on Staten Island, which has a number of protected wetlands in the surrounding area. The expected noise levels of track events are also an issue.

According to officials of the International Speedway Corporation, which last December bought the undeveloped parcel of land in the Bloomfield section of Staten Island for $110 million, the stadium will host only three stock car races a year. The rest of the time, the stadium could be used for a limited number of smaller events.The ISC also claims that the noise of a race will be lower than that of a jet plane or a rock concert.

The ISC's director of corporate development, Michael Printup, told The New York Sun: "The company is providing, at its own expense, ferries and buses that will mitigate the event traffic. The event traffic on the six weekend days of the year will be no heavier than the Monday to Friday rush hour."

The proposed project would consist of an automobile raceway with grandstand seating for up to 80,000 spectators and a retail center of approximately 620,000 square feet. The project also would include parking and various transportation facilities and infrastructure, including a ferry landing and helicopter pad.

Nascar supporters point out that Englishtown, N.J., was largely undeveloped before Nascar built Raceway Park there. The races, they say, were instrumental in developing Englishtown into a thriving area that generates significant tax revenue.

The Department of City Planning will hold a public hearing on the Nascar project on April 27 at P.S.80, the Michael Petrides School, to discuss the environmental impact and hear comments from interested parties. The process for approval from the City Council is expected to take a year and a half. Even if it passes, the first race would not take place until 2010.

splicing
March 25th, 2006, 08:04 AM
It's well worth noting that the ONLY group that has officially voted to support the proposed track is the Mariner's Harbor Civic Association.
But....a board member of this group, who also happens to be the spokesman for SINCH (Staten Island NASCAR Hopefuls), was sent on a vacation to Phoenix (along with his family) courtesy of the ISC.

At the MHCA's most recent meeting an impromptu show-of-hands was asked for by Mayor Bloomberg. "A slightly higher number went up for people opposed to the track" according to the reporter: http://www.silive.com/search/index.ssf?/base/news/1142950554167070.xml&coll=1


Here's a list (off the top of my head) of Staten Island groups that have officially and publicly expressed their opposition to the proposed track:

Arlington Civic
Dongan Hills Civic
Grant City Civic
South Beach Civic
Great Kills Civic
Westerleigh Civic

Also, several Rotary and AARP groups.

ablarc
March 25th, 2006, 10:26 PM
It will probably cast shadows.

STT757
March 26th, 2006, 11:54 PM
[size=5]

Nascar supporters point out that Englishtown, N.J., was largely undeveloped before Nascar built Raceway Park there. The races, they say, were instrumental in developing Englishtown into a thriving area that generates significant tax revenue.



This is one of those articles which is Bull sh!t, and it's quite obvious the author did not even spend five minutes of research.

I live literally 400 yards from Raceway park, I live in Manalapan (Englishtown is a borough of Manalapan down the road from where I am). I've grown up here since 1977 (was born on Staten Island), I've seen the area go from a very rural area to one of the most desirable areas for families fleeing NYC for the Suburbs. You can't throw a rock around here without hitting a Toll Brothers house, but some good has come with the development and that would be Wegmans.:)

I say the author does not know Sh!t for two main reasons, first Raceway park was built for NHRA (National Hot Rod Association racing) not NASCAR. It's a 1/4 mile drag stip not an oval or road coarse.

Second living here for almost 30 years I've watched the development first hand, it has absolutely nothing to do with Raceway park. It has everything to do with the Expansion of Route 9, the Garden State Parkway, and the quality of the Schools. It's also a pretty direct route to get here from Staten Island and Brooklyn which makes it easy for City people to find compared to say West Windsor or Pennigton.

Englishtown the borough is economically depressed compared to Manalapan, Englishtown has the Auction and Raceway Park neither of which help the local economies. The only business that is helped by Raceway park is the local WaWa store.

It's all NY'ers bringing their hot rods to Raceway park for car shows and also on Wendesday nights in the Summer you can pay $25 Dollars to race your 1986 Ford Escort Station wagon down the track it you want. They will not let you do that at a NASCAR track, Raceway park hosts tons of events in the Summer from the Great Full Dead in the late 1970s to the Vans Warp Tour the last two years. There's also a Motorcross track which is tons of fun!

An Oval Nascar track is very limited to what they can host.

STT757
March 26th, 2006, 11:58 PM
The best plan I've seen for a Nascar track was the Meadowlands plan, it would have been built on the site of the Meadowlands horse track. The horse track would still exist using the infield of the NASCAR oval, the stands and concessions would work both venues.

The Nascar race schedule is not going to book night after night of the Summer even with all their different leagues, better to have a facility that can be used for other events.

Also all the infastructure of the Meadowlands being built (Rail line etc) and the NJ Turnpike are better suited to handling big events.

pianoman11686
March 27th, 2006, 03:41 AM
I feel like making a mistake that blatant in a published news article would lead to getting fired. There shouldn't even be a debate.

TranspoMan
March 29th, 2006, 11:30 PM
The draft scope of work for the Motorsports Entertainment Complex (aka Nascar Speedway) on Staten Island EIS contains a proposed site plan:
http://www.nyc.gov/html/dcp/pdf/env_review/nascar/si_speedway_draft_scope.pdf

lofter1
March 30th, 2006, 12:08 AM
The Plan ...

TLOZ Link5
March 30th, 2006, 12:58 AM
Looks like you'd have quite a walk ahead of you were you to arrive at the track by ferry. Unless, of course, there's a shuttle bus running between the dock and the track.

lofter1
March 30th, 2006, 01:36 AM
I noticed that, too.

Big negative IMO.

splicing
March 30th, 2006, 07:02 AM
I noticed that, too.

Big negative IMO.
Big negative?..... A little walk?.....Wow, you people are picky.

Personally, I find the 799 buses, 83 ferries, 40 helicopters, 8400 cars, and the 600+ RV's, to be the problem.
And don't forget about routing buses on residential streets, closing highway exits, parking restrictions, and changing streets to one-way - all to suit ISC's needs.

VDiMiceli
April 1st, 2006, 12:55 AM
The existing train track runs right through the center of that track diagram.

MUCH closer to the track than the water. People could get off right next to the race track.

Why is this NOT being considered at all? :confused:

ablarc
April 1st, 2006, 09:17 AM
Wow, you people are picky.

Personally, I find the 799 buses, 83 ferries, 40 helicopters, 8400 cars, and the 600+ RV's, to be the problem.
Even the ferries? Now who's being picky?

VDiMiceli
April 1st, 2006, 03:10 PM
The ferries would only be there during race days and are bad for two reasons:

1) They are traveling in a dangerously busy channel that has been, on a number of occasions, closed down do to oil and gasoline spills.

2) Even if the channel was a safe place, the ferries would not serve Islanders — they would only be there on race days for NASCAR fans.

ablarc
April 1st, 2006, 05:13 PM
The ferries would only be there during race days and are bad for two reasons:

1) They are traveling in a dangerously busy channel that has been, on a number of occasions, closed down do to oil and gasoline spills.

2) Even if the channel was a safe place, the ferries would not serve Islanders — they would only be there on race days for NASCAR fans.
OK, but how does that affect you?

VDiMiceli
April 2nd, 2006, 01:02 AM
It doesn't and that's the problem.

But my opinion on this is quite clear:

If they're going to build the track, Islanders should get immediate dividends — at worst, a reactivation of the North Shore Rail Line and at best a connection to Newark and Penn Station.

That would benefit all Islanders — not just those people going to the NASCAR track.

Otherwise, it shouldn't get built.

ablarc
April 2nd, 2006, 10:47 AM
It doesn't and that's the problem.

...Otherwise, it shouldn't get built.
So if something doesn't benefit you or Staten Island residents personally it shouldn't be done, even if there's no harm in it.

That's a new twist on NIMBYism.

.

lofter1
April 2nd, 2006, 12:47 PM
ablarc:

... it shouldn't be done, even if there's no harm in it.

That's a new twist on NIMBYism.

"No harm" is quite a broad statement -- considering the potential of a huge influx of vehicles into the area.

Are you saying there isn't a better solution?

ablarc
April 2nd, 2006, 12:49 PM
"No harm" is quite a broad statement -- considering the potential of a huge influx of vehicles into the area.

Are you saying there isn't a better solution?
We were talking about the ferry.

splicing
April 2nd, 2006, 01:50 PM
Even the ferries? Now who's being picky?
You're right. I'm not necessarily against the use of ferries - if the plan is feasible, that is.
The current plan submitted by ISC is flawed.

- There's insufficient parking at the ferry facilities to handle the amount of cars as proposed in the plan.

- It's still unconfirmed whether or not 83 ferries (with the passenger capacity of 403 each (33450 / 83)) actually exist in the NYC area.

- ISC's "Plan B" is to use one or more of the boats in the Staten Island Ferry fleet - which is greatly opposed due to SI's dependency on them.

VDiMiceli
April 2nd, 2006, 11:29 PM
It's not about NIMBYism.

This project requires public approval — in order to get done, zoning has to change which, by default, requires public hearings and approval.

As such, the public — i.e. Islanders — should make sure that they get something out of the project.

And the plan now stinks. We need something more.

It's not NIMBYism, it's politics.

lofter1
April 2nd, 2006, 11:41 PM
Well said ^

ablarc
April 3rd, 2006, 12:07 AM
It's not about NIMBYism.

This project requires public approval — in order to get done, zoning has to change which, by default, requires public hearings and approval.

As such, the public — i.e. Islanders — should make sure that they get something out of the project.

And the plan now stinks. We need something more.It's not NIMBYism, it's politics.
I see your point.

How does politics differ from extortion?

lofter1
April 3rd, 2006, 12:22 AM
ha ha -- extortion is illegal, my friend! At least in NY.

Where do you live again?


The site is only a couple of miles east of the New Jersey Turnpike. A typical Nascar track can hold as many as 150,000 spectators, and at many sites across the country, the lines of cars during race days sometimes stretch for miles. That notion worries Councilman James S. Oddo, whose district includes the prospective site.

"We are an island that is clogged already. We have four bridges, and three are overutilized," he said, adding that the racetrack developers "better come forward with an attractive package or they will get booed out of town."

VDiMiceli
April 3rd, 2006, 01:37 AM
politics |?päl??tiks| plural noun [usu. treated as sing. ] the activities associated with the governance of a country or other area, esp. the debate or conflict among individuals or parties having or hoping to achieve power


extortion |ik?stôr sh ?n| noun the practice of obtaining something, esp. money, through force or threats.

You tell me.

antinimby
April 3rd, 2006, 03:24 AM
I don't think VD's ideas are NIMBY-istic at all.
He's not looking to stop anything.
I think he wants better mass transit for Staten Island and see this Nascar proposal as a way to get it, or at least, part of it started.
It is actually quite wise and forward thinking to look at all possibilities that are out there, because to me, the Nascar debate is beside the point.
Transportation is the main problem facing a growing Staten Island. It is the only borough in the city that does not have subways and outside of the Ferry and the Verrazano, it is practically isolated from the other parts of the city.

splicing
April 28th, 2006, 12:44 AM
http://www.silive.com/images/spacer.gif

Hundreds of people interested in learning more about the proposed 80,000-seat NASCAR track attended a public hearing tonight in the Petrides Educational Complex, Sunnyside. However, after representatives from racetrack developer International Speedway Corp. spoke, the crowd inside the school’s auditorium turned unruly and began heckling elected officials once they took to the microphone. One man even tried to wrestle the microphone out of City Counilman Andrew Lanza’s hands by placing the official in a partial headlock. Outside, throngs of people who couldn’t get in chanted, held up placards and engaged in often boisterous debate with one another. Borough President James P. Molinaro blamed the “ruckus” on the Department of City Planning, saying the agency should have asked for a larger police presence instead of the “Keystone Cops” and that elected officials shouldn’t have been on the floor with the audience. By 7:20 p.m., the cops had officially shut down the meeting.

Kris
May 1st, 2006, 05:36 AM
May 1, 2006
Nascar's Plan for Staten Island Drawing Caution Flags
By SEWELL CHAN

Nearly two years ago, when promoters of stock-car racing first proposed a Nascar speedway for Staten Island, the notion of bringing one of the country's most popular spectator sports to New York City was met with a mix of curiosity and amusement.

But two events on Thursday— one involving a city councilman being roughed up, according to witnesses — drew attention to the intense opposition that the project has encountered in parts of Staten Island and signaled that the speedway may be quickly developing into one of the more contentious land-use proposals in recent memory.

Until last week, the project, which could cost up to $600 million in private funds and take until 2010 to be completed, seemed to be inching forward. In May 2004, officials of the International Speedway Corporation, a Nascar affiliate based in Daytona Beach, Fla., confirmed their plans to build the race track. That December, they paid $100 million to buy 450 of the roughly 660 acres of the site, an abandoned petroleum tank farm near the Goethals Bridge. (A developer plans to build a shopping center on the remaining land.)

In March 2005, the company released a traffic study that proposed a complex network of ferries, charter buses and park-and-ride lots that would allow fans to reach the site during the three full racing weekends expected to be scheduled each year. The three-quarter-mile track would have 82,500 seats and 8,400 parking spaces, but Nascar promoters insisted that the traffic effects could be managed.

On Thursday, the Sierra Club, joined by a half-dozen local environmental groups, issued a report saying that the project would generate 30,000 vehicle trips for a typical Saturday race; worsen air quality during times when respiratory illnesses are most prevalent; require filling in 14 to 15 acres of fragile saltwater wetlands; and harm several wildlife species.

Several hours later, the Department of City Planning held its first public hearing on the project, which requires both a land-use review and an environmental-impact study. More than 1,000 people attended the meeting, at the Michael J. Petrides Educational Complex in Sunnyside, about half for and half against the project.

Less than an hour after it began, the meeting, according to people on both sides of the dispute who were present, degenerated into a shouting match. They said that a top union official who supports the development was involved in a scuffle with Councilman Andrew J. Lanza, a Republican who opposes it, as two planning officials tried unsuccessfully to calm the angry crowd.

Mr. Lanza said yesterday that he was trying to describe his views on the project when "a guy put a bearhug on me, threatening me while guys standing in front of him were urging him, 'Punch him in the face. Hit him.' "

Mr. Lanza identified the man as Christopher J. Wallace, president of Local 20 of the United Brotherhood of Carpenters and Joiners of America. Mr. Wallace, whose union has 630 members, said yesterday, "That's silliness."

"Clearly, the speedway and the benefits to Staten Island are what we should be talking about," he said.

In telephone interviews, two Staten Island residents who are volunteers for neighborhood environmental groups and oppose the project, Ronald M. Lauria and Charles E. Perry, and an International Speedway Corporation official, Michael P. Printup, all said yesterday that they saw Mr. Wallace place his arm around Mr. Lanza while trying to grab a microphone from him.

"It's a shame the elected officials couldn't speak and finish their thoughts," said Mr. Printup, who oversees the project and said it would generate $200 million a year in economic activity and create 75 permanent jobs.

Police officers disbanded the meeting shortly afterward, saying that the auditorium's capacity had been exceeded. No arrests were made. A new hearing date has not been scheduled.

The speedway corporation has hired Guy V. Molinari, a former borough president, to sway opponents.

"We're going to have to reconvene and hopefully start to answer their questions," Mr. Printup said.

Coincidentally, another land-use dispute involving auto racing has also generated high emotions.

On April 21, North American Motorsport Events, of Fleetwood, Pa., presented a proposal to bring an annual auto race involving single-seat, or open-wheel, racing cars, to Floyd Bennett Field in Brooklyn, which was the city's first municipal airport, built on 1,500 acres of reclaimed marshland, and is now part of the Gateway National Recreation Area.

Representative Anthony D. Weiner, who represents parts of Queens and Brooklyn, sent an aide to the meeting and later said that the aide was berated by State Senator Carl Kruger of Brooklyn, who represents the area and has expressed tentative support for the project.

The acrimony between Mr. Weiner and Mr. Kruger, both Democrats, led to a loud argument at a fund-raising dinner on Thursday in Brooklyn, The Daily News reported.

Mr. Weiner said the project, which is backed by the actor (and race car driver) Paul Newman, would violate National Park Service regulations. "There is no doubt in my mind that when the senator learns how fervently his constituents oppose megadevelopment at Floyd Bennett Field, his position will either reverse or become awfully quiet," Mr. Weiner said.

Senator Kruger said of the project, "It's an exciting, unique opportunity to take what was the forgotten Floyd Bennett Field, energize it and bring a Grand Prix to Brooklyn. It will attract a very high-end, sophisticated clientele that will mean dollars coming into Brooklyn."

The National Park Service, which controls the site, has not taken a formal position on the proposal, which would not require permanent construction. It would cost an estimated $15 million a year, provide some money for charity, and be affiliated with the Champ Car World Series.

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2006/05/01/nyregion/0501-met-webRACETRACKmap.gif

Copyright 2006 The New York Times Company

lofter1
May 1st, 2006, 10:07 AM
From reports / interviews with elected SI representatives I've seen since last weeks meeting it looks like the SI NASCAR project is DOA.

+++

splicing
May 2nd, 2006, 11:18 PM
I attended the meeting and by coincidence, I had a seat by the mic.

When Councilman Lanza was introduced as the first general audience speaker, we were amazed that he was directed to the mic located at the head of the theater and not on stage.
Before he spoke a single word, he was being shouted at by the union officials in question - "whore", "cVnt", and a host of other derogatory remarks.

Then someone seated directly next to the mic shouted "we want the track", to which Lanza replied over the PA, "Then you're not going to like what I'm going to say.." - which enraged the union groups even further.

From then on it was very difficult to hear exactly what was said due to the shouting, but Lanza made a comment about "temporary jobs".
Chris Wallace then charged the mic, went face to face with Lanza and demanded to speak. Lanza fended him off a bit until Chis Wallace put his arm around the back of his neck and pulled him in close and grabbed the mic. I have no idea what Wallace said because the place erupted into chaos. A large group of union supporters surrounded Lanza and began chanting "NASCAR". NYPD was nowhere to be found.

The whole scene was a disgrace but I've got to give credit to Councilman Lanza for standing his ground and not crappin' his pants. Chris Wallace is a big guy and was extremely hostile and was most definitely being cheered-on to smash Lanza's face in.



http://www.silive.com/cgi-bin/prxy/photogalleries/nph-cache.cgi/cache=3000;/silive/images/2972/nascar19.jpg


http://www.silive.com/cgi-bin/prxy/photogalleries/nph-cache.cgi/cache=3000;/silive/images/2972/nascar12.jpg

http://www.silive.com/cgi-bin/prxy/photogalleries/nph-cache.cgi/cache=3000;/silive/images/2972/nascar15.jpg

http://www.silive.com/cgi-bin/prxy/photogalleries/nph-cache.cgi/cache=3000;/silive/images/2972/nascar17.jpg

http://www.silive.com/cgi-bin/prxy/photogalleries/nph-cache.cgi/cache=3000;/silive/images/2972/nascar18.jpg

Scruffy88
May 6th, 2006, 07:17 PM
nice pics. good report too. i was still on the fence whether i wanted nascar here or not, and now it seems it doesnt matter.

RobF
May 10th, 2006, 12:40 PM
The third nail in the NASCAR plan (http://www.silive.com/search/index.ssf?/base/news/1147267987305960.xml&coll=1) (Wednesday, 5/10/2006, SI Advance)
Councilman Michael McMahon announced yesterday that he would vote against the NASCAR track proposed for Staten Island, making opposition unanimous among the borough's three City Council members.

SIFirstFan
May 11th, 2006, 10:39 AM
Staten Island NASCAR Hopefuls (SINCH), of course, are disappointed by Councilman Mike McMahon’s bowing to pressure from the anti-track element and admitting that he will not support International Speedway Corporation’s proposal for a racing, retail, and wetlands preserve project when it comes up for a vote in the City Council next year.

Traffic is a fact of life on Staten Island and practically in every other medium-sized city in America. Having never experienced “managed traffic” we understand why many Islanders have expressed concerns about its feasibility. Closing the Verrazzano Narrows Bridge for the marathon or a level for the bike tour, half a bridge for maintenance, or Forest Avenue for a parade is not managing traffic. That sort of thing just stops traffic altogether.

The ISC proposal includes a meticulous traffic plan that establishes a base-line “optimal flow” for our highways and employs modern communications, some available for only the last few years, to maintain it. Actively controlling system loads and monitoring flows and adjusting feeds is a foreign concept to most of us, but it works. Broadcast traffic forecasts will affect the number of vehicles using the highways during the hours of concern. Hands-on traffic analysts will open and close access routes and stand-by tow trucks will dispatch any minor accidents to optimize a clog-free traffic stream.

We are sorry to see a revitalizing use for an old industrial site summarily dismissed without input from the citizenry solely because our Councilmen, none of them engineers or scientists, cannot comprehend the traffic plan. As industry abandons Staten Island, leaving behind broken buildings and a scarred landscape, we are disappointed that our elected leaders don’t appreciate the speedy recovery that creative private-money ventures might bring to those locations. The message has been sent that Staten Island shuns investment and that makes this a sad day for us all.

SIFirstFan
May 11th, 2006, 10:54 AM
You should note that splicing has been an anti-track activist for a long time and his view is at best slanted...

At the meeting in question, Mr. 47% (as we now call Lanza based on his meeting attendance for his part-time job as City Councilman) berated the union workers and told them they had crappy, temporary jobs. Then when a union business agent rose to object he turned away from him at which point the gentleman pulled Lanza by his shoulder closer to him and bent to speak into the microphone so that he could be heard. Lanza took the opportunity to further antagonize the crowd by calling the now-angry business agent "the face of NASCAR" and asked "Do you want 80,000 people like THIS coming here?" Of course, at that point, anti-trackers were yelling in agreement and pro-trackers were yelling in protest.

Another councilman, Mike McMahon, calmed the crowd down and the meeting started to progress again.

Jimmy Oddo, Lanza's political pal from the Republican zone south of the expressway made some stupid comments that some found offensive and further antagonized the crowd. Lanza took to the microphone yet again and continued his sarcastic, anti-union, anti-track remarks. The chairman of the planning committee, Robert Dobruskin, went to him and tried to take the microphone back but Lanza refused to hand it over.

Soon after , the public safety officer in charge went on stage and told the chairman that the meeting was over. Lanza succeeded, facing huge support for the track project, in scuttling the meeting and turning into an "all about me" press conference.

That meeting was held so that the CITIZENS of Staten Island could voice concerns and make statements in support of the track. Not one CITIZEN had a chance to speak thanks to Oddo and Lanza. They sank the meeting before it started and that cannot be repeated often enough.

Both of those goons are a DISGRACE to Staten Island.

lofter1
May 11th, 2006, 11:02 AM
Clearly the supporters of the NASCAR venture mis-played their hand...

You can't cram something like this down the throats of residents.

With a bit more savvy perhaps the supporters would have been able to push this questionably beneficial project forward.

As it now stands: Out of Gas

JCMAN320
May 11th, 2006, 01:23 PM
Thank god. My friend on Staten Island will be happy to hear that she has been spared lol.

splicing
May 11th, 2006, 01:38 PM
My view is hardly slanted. I do not hide the fact that I oppose the plans for the track based on a greatly flawed plan presented by the ISC.

SIFirstFan is a track proponent and the spokesman for a group named Staten Island NASCAR Hopefuls (SINCH). He was the recipient of a paid vacation by ISC, his group has hosted parties sponsored by ISC, and ISC has provided merchandise to it's members.
SIFirstFan is also a board member of the ONLY civic association here on SI to vote to favor a track.
To say that MY view is slanted is ridiculous when viewed in this light.

With regards to the scoping hearing, Councilman Lanza was in rightful possession on the mic. His words could certainly have been viewed as inflamatory by some. But, they were only words. It was a public forum where everyone had the right to say whatever he or she desired on the topic. Councilman Lanza was met with hostility and violence because some didn't like what he had to say. For SIFirstFan to place the blame on our elected officials is absurd and just another example of the pro-track attitude that we've faced here on SI.

JCMAN320
May 12th, 2006, 04:17 PM
Staten Island NASCAR track plan hitting wall

Friday, May 12, 2006
By STEVEN LEMONGELLO
JOURNAL STAFF WRITER

Plans to build an 80,000-seat NASCAR track on the west shore of Staten Island are looking increasingly bleak after the Island's three City Council members all announced their opposition.

Some Bayonne residents and city officials have expressed concern about the proposed track in the past, saying they fear a dramatic increase in traffic on Route 440 and the Bayonne Bridge.

In fact, it was traffic that convinced a city councilman from Staten Island to vote against the project.

"We sat there on the (Goethals Bridge) ramp literally for 45 minutes looking right at the NASCAR track site. Now you can't tell me that traffic is going to go away because NASCAR says it's going to go away," said Michael McMahon, who represents Staten Island's North Shore.

"I think that was certainly, for me, a very important turning point - or it just reminded me of what I've known all along," he said.

"It was always clear to me that the issue of traffic that paralyzes our roadways had to be addressed . That was never accomplished.

"Moreover, the presence of NASCAR would only worsen our dire traffic conditions."

McMahon joins City Council members James Oddo and Andrew Lanza, who were already opposed to the project.

"It's over," Oddo said. "Now that there's a completely united front, it's over."

krulltime
May 12th, 2006, 04:26 PM
Well there goes the chances of having Nascar in NYC. Let that be a lesson to more sports complexes that they are not welcome in NYC. Well maybe they should think of NJ?

splicing
May 13th, 2006, 10:51 PM
Here's some decent video footage from NY1 of the incident that occurred at the Staten Island NASCAR hearing:

http://real.ny1.com:8080/ramgen/real4/0016C10C_060428_180135hi.rm

hatemacs
May 14th, 2006, 12:24 AM
I live in staten island and have seen it grow... but it's never been able to be truly independent in an economical sense... I am not saying that we should develop all of the greenbelt or remove the beauty of greenery... but the land in question IS known as the dump... it was the worlds largest landfill till they closed it and also a toxic place to visit. (in 2000 there was some type of ecological cleanup or something) and the mashy / swampy area is unusable and i remember my throat burning while driving by that area because of the landfill "scent" that permeated the area. It would be a great thing to have a private company spend their money (not our tax money) on developing / cleaning up this land and helping Staten Island reclaim some of this area for public use. All growth requires change...

SIFirstFan
May 14th, 2006, 11:30 AM
We're not going away just because some political machine decided early on that they didn't much care for NASCAR...

Support change and progress, and the renewal of Staten Island's old industrial sites...

Join Staten Island NASCAR Hopefuls: www.si4nascar.com (http://www.si4nascar.com)

We are probably the most fun and politically-charged organization you'll find and we have some very high-minded principles and plan to fully defend our right as citizens to be heard and particpate in the process.

Eugenious
May 14th, 2006, 08:16 PM
Nascar does not belong in NY period. Nobody in NY cares or watches Nascar.

Just go away.

Now an F1 track now THAT I would support.


We're not going away just because some political machine decided early on that they didn't much care for NASCAR...

Support change and progress, and the renewal of Staten Island's old industrial sites...

Join Staten Island NASCAR Hopefuls: www.si4nascar.com (http://www.si4nascar.com)

We are probably the most fun and politically-charged organization you'll find and we have some very high-minded principles and plan to fully defend our right as citizens to be heard and particpate in the process.

splicing
May 14th, 2006, 11:15 PM
I live in staten island and have seen it grow... but it's never been able to be truly independent in an economical sense... I am not saying that we should develop all of the greenbelt or remove the beauty of greenery... but the land in question IS known as the dump... it was the worlds largest landfill till they closed it and also a toxic place to visit. (in 2000 there was some type of ecological cleanup or something) and the mashy / swampy area is unusable and i remember my throat burning while driving by that area because of the landfill "scent" that permeated the area. It would be a great thing to have a private company spend their money (not our tax money) on developing / cleaning up this land and helping Staten Island reclaim some of this area for public use. All growth requires change...
The proposed track will not be located at Fresh Kills Landfill.
Although, the property is contaminated and is currently being cleaned on GATX's tab - the former owner that's responsible for the problems.

The Fresh Kills Landfill is to become a massive park.

RobF
May 22nd, 2006, 10:34 AM
I strongly suspect that there is at least one pro track group on Staten Island that is deliberately attempting to spread dis-information about this track project.
This attempt has included the idea that something worse than a racetrack will come to the site, which has been contradicted in print. Also, the notion that the track will bring a large economic windfall, when it is unclear what portion of the projected tax revenue Staten Island will get.

Now, the emphasis is on bashing local elected leaders, by claiming they started a disturbance that I, who attended the meeting, believe was largely the fault of supporters welcomed by ISC.

They also parrot the notion that Councilmember Andrew Lanza's record is poor, which flies in the face of fact. I refer to Mr. Lanza's popularity with voters, and his recent endorsement for state senate from the Staten Island Republican Party.

krulltime
August 28th, 2006, 05:54 PM
http://www.therealdeal.net//breaking_news/2006/08/28/images/6884.jpg
The Staten Island NASCAR stadium
would be similar in scope to the
Richmond International Speedway
in Virginia.


RACEWAY YIELDS ON PARKING


By RICH CALDER
August 28, 2006

Facing a road filled with potholes, the developer seeking to build an 82,500-seat NASCAR raceway on Staten Island is revising plans in a bid to limit traffic impact on the borough's already jammed highways.

Michael Printup, project manager of the Daytona, Fla.-based International Speedway Corp., said the company "would love" to reduce the number of parking spots for raceway events from the proposed 8,400 to 1,000 and is "confident" it could get it at least below 5,000.

"Our goal is to get as many people coming here by bus and ferry as possible," Printup told The Post, adding that the delayed $600 million project won't be completed until at least 2011.


Copyright 2006 NYP Holdings, Inc.

OmegaNYC
August 28th, 2006, 07:47 PM
I personally don't think Nascar will do well in either NJ or NYC. I just get that feeling.

RobF
August 29th, 2006, 09:04 PM
[quote=krulltime;117187]http://www.therealdeal.net//breaking_news/2006/08/28/images/6884.jpg
The Staten Island NASCAR stadium
would be similar in scope to the
Richmond International Speedway
in Virginia.

Here's a local article on the subject. Thank you SINCH for providing an archive.

Track firm weighs plan to reduce congestion in bid to soothe
opponents; councilmen still skeptical

Friday, July 07, 2006 By Sally Goldenberg, Staten Island Advance.

The company hoping to build a NASCAR track on Staten Island is
working to reduce the number of fans' cars that would be allowed
onto the grounds on race days, officials for track developer
International Speedway Corp. said yesterday.

ISC's current plan to allow 8,400 cars at the 80,000-seat stadium
has drawn the ire of local public officials, and company executives
now promise to try to reduce that number, though they would not
divulge key details, such as the number of cars permitted to park in
the track's lot, or what alternate mode of transportation they would
employ.

The most recent traffic plan, released in January, relies heavily on
buses and ferries to transport the bulk of the fans to races on the
Island's West Shore.

"We are working on a reduction in the car count on race days, and it
would be a significant reduction if we're able to achieve it. We're
not in a position today to give numbers on that, because if and when
we make a statement about a reduced car count, we want to make sure
it's something we can deliver," said John Graham, vice president for
business affairs at ISC.

"We don't have a specific time frame," Graham said about announcing
details of the effort to limit cars. "It will be just as long as it
takes for us to determine that, yes, we can in fact deliver on the
lower number."

But Graham said he hopes to finalize a new traffic plan before the
next public hearing on the track, which has yet to be scheduled by
the Department of City Planning.

However, it seems nothing ISC does at this point will sway the
borough's city councilmen, who repeatedly have declared their
unequivocal opposition to the track planned for a 675-acre site in
Bloomfield.

"It's a Trojan horse just painted a different color," said
Councilman Michael McMahon (D-North Shore). "I don't believe the
cars won't come, and even if they don't, they still have all the
buses, they have the ferries, they have the helicopters [for
corporate higher-ups] and they have the motor homes."
McMahon voiced his opposition to the raceway after a public NASCAR
hearing on April 27 dissolved into a near riot. Police shut it down.
He and colleague James Oddo (R-Mid-Island/Brooklyn) both insisted
that a reduced number of cars will trigger an increased number of
buses or ferries, which they consider equally problematic.
Oddo called ISC's plan "a last-ditch effort of desperation" and
questioned the company's credibility, since pleas from the
councilmen to reduce the number of on-site parking spaces have been
ignored since 2004.

"I have to look at everything that they say now with a jaundiced
eye," Oddo said. "With one breath [they] say they're trying to
respond to [our] concerns, but after saying, 'No, it's impossible,
it can't be done' for so long ... how do you look at that and
say 'OK'?"

Councilmen Andrew Lanza (R-South Shore), perhaps the most vocal
opponent of the track, could not be reached for comment yesterday.

http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/StatenIslandNasCarHopefulsSINCH/message/358

lofter1
September 9th, 2006, 03:58 PM
BEWARE DEADLY DAY AT RACES

NY POST (http://www.nypost.com/news/regionalnews/beware_deadly_day_at_races_regionalnews_patrick_ga llahue_and_murray_weiss.htm)
By PATRICK GALLAHUE and MURRAY WEISS

September 9, 2006 -- NASCAR speedways like the one proposed for Staten Island are races to the death, a top FDNY official has told stunned borough leaders.

Staten Island Fire Chief Thomas Haring spoke to community board leaders Thursday and reportedly said the FDNY had discovered an average of six people die on race weekends from a variety of causes at or near a track like this one.

The stunning statistic came as the department conducted a review of similar-sized speedways across the country as part of an interagency group looking at the proposed $600-million speedway in preparation for a public review.

"We were taken aback when they said six fatalities at the smaller facilities that are comparable to [the one proposed for] Staten Island," said Marie Bodnar, district manager of Community Board 3. "We were all surprised."

They apparently weren't the only ones.

Top FDNY sources seemed equally surprised by the statement and were unsure about how the figures were obtained.

The Staten Island Advance, which first reported the story, quoted Haring as saying it was "an astonishing statistic" at the meeting.

Bodnar said fire officials told them the causes were not simply in the races themselves but were attributed to heart attacks, traffic accidents to and from the track, or any other mishap during several days of race weekend events.

Calls from The Post to International Speedway Corporation, the Florida-based outift proposing the 82,500-seat racetrack for Staten Island, were not returned but an official from the company disputed the findings to the Advance.


Copyright 2006 NYP Holdings, Inc.

splicing
September 14th, 2006, 11:17 PM
http://www.silive.com/search/index.ssf?/base/news/115815437791050.xml&coll=1

State is investigating use of substandard fill at lot for proposed racetrack

Wednesday, September 13, 2006 By SALLY GOLDENBERG and STEPHANIE SLEPIAN

STATEN ISLAND ADVANCE
A NASCAR developer is under investigation by the state Department of Environmental Conservation for possibly carting substandard fill onto the Staten Island site where it hopes to build a racetrack.
After being questioned by city and state agencies, International Speedway Corp., which promotes NASCAR races and owns leading motor sports tracks, voluntarily relinquished its right to bring fill to the Bloomfield site.
DEC inspected the site last week, and Speedway consultant Mark Chertok sent a brief letter to the state agency almost immediately afterward, indicating that 380 Development -- the ISC majority-owned subsidiary that owns the track property -- was giving up its license to grade the site in Bloomfield with fill. "380 Development believes that this step will provide the opportunity to strengthen its environmental management program," according to the letter, which was obtained by the Advance.

The news buoyed City Councilman James Oddo, a staunch critic of the proposed speedway.
"Well, well, well, perhaps one of the reasons the NASCAR project stinks so much is because of dirty fill," said Oddo (R-Mid-Island/Brooklyn), whose district would house the track. "They've run out of toes to stub."
"Part of [ISC's] spin is how they're restoring wetlands and making the property pristine, and meanwhile, you have concerns about the quality of the fill they're using," Oddo continued.
The DEC visit entailed a series of routine checks, and the agency had further concerns based on the visit, said spokeswoman Maureen Wren.
"There were questions about where the fill had been placed and the content of the fill, as a result of that site investigation," Ms. Wren said. She would not discuss specifics of the ongoing investigation. Neither would she say when the results would be made public.
"[DEC] has communicated certain items that we are currently reviewing," John Graham, ISC vice president of business affairs, wrote in an e-mail to the Advance. "We have voluntarily ceased fill operations at the project site while we address these items."
Graham did not answer further questions about the specific items under review but said the company is "working closely with the DEC to reach a mutually agreeable plan for going forward."
The DEC now is reviewing soil samples taken by both 380 Development and the city Department of Sanitation, and is awaiting other information from the track developer, Ms. Wren said.
A Sanitation spokesman would say only that the department "has been collecting samples and expects to conclude its analysis shortly." The department has a separate set of criteria that ISC must meet for its fill.
Last year, DEC granted the developer a Beneficial Use Determination petition that allowed it to haul fill onto the 675-acre property where it hopes to build an 80,000-plus-seat stadium with an adjoining retail center.
Ultimately, ISC hopes to place 1 million cubic yards of fill on the property, elevating it by at least 2 feet and making it compliant with a state-mandated environmental cleanup order, ISC officials have said.
To date, ISC has deposited about 250,000 cubic yards on the site, Ms. Wren said. "The fill itself mainly consists of soil from excavation sites or other types of excavation material, and that soil has to meet certain criteria," she added.
Sally Goldenbeg and Stephanie Slepian are news reporters for the Advance. They may be reached at goldenberg@siadvance.com and slepian@siadvance.com.

ablarc
September 15th, 2006, 12:05 AM
...an average of six people die on race weekends from a variety of causes at or near a track like this one.

The stunning statistic came as the department conducted a review of similar-sized speedways across the country as part of an interagency group looking at the proposed $600-million speedway in preparation for a public review.

"We were taken aback when they said six fatalities at the smaller facilities that are comparable to [the one proposed for] Staten Island," said Marie Bodnar, district manager of Community Board 3. "We were all surprised."

They apparently weren't the only ones.

Top FDNY sources seemed equally surprised by the statement and were unsure about how the figures were obtained.
What's so stunning about this statistic? How many people die in that amount of time in a city of 82,500? Even if you omit folks who die in hospitals and nursing homes, it's bound to be more than six.

urbanaturalist
September 16th, 2006, 07:43 PM
NASCAR still uses leaded gasoline. Damn.
I think it would better used as greenspace, if not then at least build parking decks instead of one big sprawly parking lot? Lets see if NASCAR officials are up to paying for that:D .

tmg
September 17th, 2006, 12:05 AM
If they use leaded gasoline, they should not be permitted in a populated area. Period. Especially this one.

splicing
September 20th, 2006, 02:46 PM
Investigators are working to determine filll's contents in a search for violations

http://www.silive.com/news/advance/index.ssf?/base/news/1158759127317090.xml&coll=1

Wednesday, September 20, 2006 By SALLY GOLDENBERG

ADVANCE STAFF WRITER


The company hoping to build a NASCAR track and retail complex on Staten Island has lost its city-issued permits to cart soil onto its Bloomfield property, according to officials from the city Department of Sanitation.
Shortly after relinquishing its state-issued license on Sept. 7 to haul soil onto the 675-acre site, the company was stripped of similar rights granted by Sanitation.
Now Sanitation and the state Department of Environmental Conservation are investigating the content of the soil, although they have not said why it doesn't meet government standards.

"Based on the analysis of the samples taken at the site, and those samples being inconsistent with the Fill Material Operations permit requirements, the permit was revoked," Sanitation spokesman Keith Mellis said.
That leaves 380 Development -- the corporate partnership between motorsports mogul International Speedway Corp. and commercial developer The Related Companies -- in the lurch, because soil deposits are necessary for grading the property for future construction.
"We have had procedures in place to test the site fill material on a continuous basis. It is clear, however, that our system has not worked entirely properly, and we are taking immediate steps to thoroughly address these issues," said John Graham, an ISC vice president. He would not discuss specifics, nor would he answer follow-up questions.
The latest troubles for the controversial NASCAR project to build an 80,000-plus-seat stadium have given City Councilman James Oddo (R-Mid-Island/Brooklyn) one more reason to blast the developer.
"Dirty fill is a serious issue. I think dirty fill will be the final dirt on their coffin," Oddo said.
He would not reveal who told him about the soil concerns, but said he has since aired his concerns with higher-ups from both agencies.
"Sanitation said that [380 Development] has to come in with a better plan for the site," Oddo said, but declined to name the city official to whom he spoke. "He never used the word toxic or anything like that. His language was, 'Nothing to jump up and down about, there were some elevated levels.' He used the word contaminant, but everything is a contaminant."
Oddo also has written three letters to the DEC since July to address his concerns. The agency contacted him last week, but did not divulge specifics, he said.
DEC spokeswoman Maureen Wren has said the agency's investigation began two weeks ago because a routine check of the 250,000 cubic yards of soil that ISC has been carting onto the site raised the eyebrows of Sanitation officials, who then contacted the state agency.
Shortly after the investigation began, the track builder voluntarily relinquished its DEC license to bring in fill.
Sanitation and the DEC, which have different soil standards for developers, are joining forces to investigate the soil and determine how to direct 380, according to Mellis and Ms. Wren.
-- Advance news reporter Stephanie Slepian contributed to this report.
Sally Goldenberg is a news reporter for the Advance. She may be reached at goldenberg@siadvance.com.

RobF
September 25th, 2006, 12:18 PM
NASCAR still uses leaded gasoline. Damn.

I think it would better used as greenspace, if not then at least build parking decks instead of one big sprawly parking lot? Lets see if NASCAR officials are up to paying for that:D .

NASCAR is exempt from the EPA's lead fuel ban, and so is the aviation industry. That would mean lead pollution not just from the race cars, but from the 30 to 40 helicopter flights International Speedway Corp. plans for each race day. ( Maybe we won't have to spray for mosquitos anymore, lol ).

As far as the parking decks, the plan is not to allow more than 8,400 cars to park at the track. We think that's the plan, anyway.

Consider that this plan assumes fans of a car culture will park elsewhere and board buses and ferries to the track. If this doesn't fly with fans, there will be empty seats and poor ticket sales. That might mean International Speedway Corp. using their millions to get around agreements made with the city. If not in the legislature, then in the courts.

They are not going to allow a 600 million dollar investment to fail because fans want to drive, not bus, to a track. If the fans don't show up, I can see International Speedway Corp.finding a way to get those cars here.

RobF
October 16th, 2006, 11:49 PM
From the Staten Island Advance Letters to the Editor Feature.
Monday, October 16, 2006


After taking a thorough look at the transcript of the public meeting held earlier this year concerning the building of a NASCAR speedway on Staten Island, I'd like to retract the comments that I made about New York City Council member Andrew Lanza in a letter that was published Sept. 10 in the Staten Island Advance.


While I am sure that Council member Lanza can understand why I was offended by his alleged comments, as a longtime Staten Island resident and president of the Metropolitan Region of the Civil Service Employees Association (CSEA), the official record does not reflect his use of any derogatory language toward workers or trade unionists and therefore I stand corrected.


I look forward to continuing a productive working relationship with Council member Lanza and other elected officials who stand with working families.


GEORGE BONCORAGLIO MANHATTAN

[The writer, a Travis resident, is regional president of the Civil Service Employees Association Local 1000, AFSCME.]

http://www.silive.com/letters/advance/index.ssf?/base/news/1161004557112400.xml&coll=1

Hopefully, the few people who believed that Andrew Lanza made anti labor remarks at a public hearing and half a dozen news crews didn't catch it will now see the truth. That this was part of a nest of lies, contrived to smear an elected official, simply because he is opposed to a Florida racetrack developer's plan to build a venue on Staten Island.

The beauty of it? International Speedway Corporation didn't have to dirty their hands at all. They had a willing group of ( mostly ) local residents to do it for them.

RobF
October 25th, 2006, 11:23 PM
EDITORIAL FROM THE STATEN ISLAND ADVANCE

Wednesday, October 25, 2006

It's not NASCAR nation

We don't know about you, but when we saw Monday's front-page Advance story, "NASCAR quietly reshapes plan in a bid to satisfy track foes," we were struck by the disconnect between the International Speedway Corp.'s version of things and the reality on the ground in our community.
The story said that ISC is busily reworking its traffic and transportation plan to make it more palatable to opponents.
ISC's point man on Staten Island, Michael Printup, officially designated the manager of the non-existent racetrack in Bloomfield, "We're fully committed to going through with the process."
He added, "We're working on everything. We're looking at the traffic; we're looking at the site plan; we're looking at configuring race times. We've really thrown everything back in the basket and we shook it all up."
The rejiggered plan aims to further reduce the number of cars allowed to park at the site. That's been the primary focus of track opponents, who say that NASCAR fans arriving in their own vehicles on race days will further choke Staten Island's already-clogged highways and bridges to a standstill.
ISC originally pledged to limit the number of vehicles that could park on site to 8,400. The vast majority of the 80,000 attendees of the weekend races would be forced through their pre-paid tickets to use designated buses or ferries to get to and from the Bloomfield site. No walk-up traffic from fans parking off-site on Staten Island would be allowed.
Critics charged that even 8,400 was far too many vehicles, especially when considered in combination with the hundreds of buses ISC plans to use to transport fans. And many opponents flatly refused to believe that NASCAR fans would take mass transportation to get to the racetrack, insisting that most would arrive in their own vehicles no matter what ISC did.
Opponents also refused to believe that the racing would be limited to just three weekends a year. That's how many NASCAR events ISC planned to have because its annual 37-week schedule for NASCAR races is pretty full already, but opponents charged that the track would draw big crowds for other events on other weekends as well.
In recent months, ISC changed its plan to increase the mass transit components and scale back on-site parking even further to between 1,000 and 3,000 cars.
That didn't quiet the critics.
Perhaps ISC plans to reduce that number even further in its new plan. But the question we have is this: Does it even matter at this point?
ISC keeps acting as if there were broad-based, deep-seated support for its NASCAR track proposal, but there are just some minor concerns that prevent a majority of Staten Islanders from supporting it wholeheartedly.
Tweak the plan a little to address those concerns and -- bingo! -- the proposed track will be hailed as a win-win for everyone.
Not really. We've been through several revisions of the overall plan and that reconciliation hasn't happened and, from all we've seen, it's not about to happen. Generally speaking, people on Staten Island are not fans of stock-car racing, so there was no built-in base of support on which ISC could build as there is in much of the rest of America.
Then there are this borough's chronic traffic headaches, by far the biggest source of aggravation here even before you start talking about building 80,000-seat race tracks. Tell Staten Islanders that they're going to have to contend with more traffic on race weekends -- even three a year -- and they will go ballistic.
That inherent anti-NASCAR tilt was spotted early by Staten Island's elected officials. As a result, virtually every one has opposed the project. Some have based their political reputations on vehement opposition to the track. They're not about to go back on that.
Even Mayor Michael Bloomberg, an ardent supporter of almost every other large economic development project that has been proposed, has scoffed at NASCAR and, on the whole, been tepid, at best, about the proposal.
Council Speaker Christine Quinn, deferring to the members of the Staten Island Councilmen, is also strongly opposed.
These are the very elected officials ISC needs to win ultimate approval for its plan in the City Council. Yet not one Council member from this borough -- nor any other, to our knowledge -- has expressed an interest in the track, much less made known his or her willingness to carry ISC's legislation in the Council.
"There's nothing I think that they can do or say that's going to change my opposition," North Shore City Councilman Michael McMahon, a Democrat, said. "I think that they should just move on to the next location."
And he's the least strident opponent of the track among the borough Council members.
Even Borough President James Molinaro, who has said in the past that he's willing to remain open-minded to ISC's plan before making up his mind, said last week, "As far as I'm concerned, it's dead. I don't know why they're still here."
All in all, it seems as if the handwriting's on the wall and it's writ large.
So exactly what accounts for ISC's optimism now?
Why is the company still wasting resources on a project that has virtually no local support? Does ISC know something we don't?
Or is it just that ISC officials, enthusiastic purveyors of a product that is popular almost everywhere else, can't grasp the extent and the ferocity of the opposition here?
We've always been on the same page with the borough president who believed that we should hear ISC out. Still, we can't imagine that there's anything they can do or say that will change enough minds to make this happen at this point.

http://www.silive.com/search/index.ssf?/base/news/1161779538224790.xml&coll=1&thispage=1

RobF
October 26th, 2006, 03:41 PM
Here's a link to a story on the fill dirt issue at the proposed NASCAR site.

From http://www.statenislandnascartrack.com/ an ISC website.

Read " Spoilt Soil". Read the last sentence - "Now, the only thing is this…what is wrong with the soil? "

They are telling us on their own website that they don't know what's wrong with that soil? How can that possibly be true?

RobF
October 27th, 2006, 02:17 AM
Welcome NASCAR to Staten Island…here’s why

"Many people oppose the Staten Island NASCAR track but it seems that there is quite a large number of people who are waiting to welcome the NASCAR track with wide, welcoming, open arms. The reason for their mounting support is because there are many fiscal and side benefits to be seen if the Staten Island NASCAR track is built in a wasteland that was going to be purchased and used for one thing or another anyway."

http://www.statenislandnascartrack.com/news/welcome-nascar-heres-why.htm

Worth reading the whole "article". It's from an unbiased "news" site that I'm told is in no way connected to International Speedway Corporation. I recommend adding it to your favorites...you may be pleasantly surprised at what "pops up" on it.

Eugenious
October 27th, 2006, 11:07 AM
Can the mod's lock this thread? this topic is a dead issue.

daver
October 27th, 2006, 12:04 PM
Can the mod's lock this thread? this topic is a dead issue.
How so?

Eugenious
October 27th, 2006, 12:46 PM
How so?

Because they are never going to build a friggin' nascar track in New York City which Staten Island is a part of. If this was Wired North Carolina or Florida or Indianapolis maybe this would be an actual project worth dicussing, right now it's just a bunch of non-sense.

lofter1
October 27th, 2006, 01:21 PM
No need to lock the thread ---

If someone doesn't want to read the "nonsense" then just skip the thread :cool:

daver
October 27th, 2006, 01:25 PM
Because they are never going to build a friggin' nascar track in New York City which Staten Island is a part of. If this was Wired North Carolina or Florida or Indianapolis maybe this would be an actual project worth dicussing, right now it's just a bunch of non-sense.
Never is a long time, and they are actively trying to build it right now. I don't think it will ultimately go through, but up to last week they were actually moving dirt and preparing for it.

nyzgreatst
October 28th, 2006, 12:15 AM
i think the track would be great. would boost business on the island like crazy. i could make more on the three weekends then i do all year round.

right now all they are doing on the site is doing an environmental clean up. the site used to house tankers so they had to replace the top layer of dirt in order to build anything there. if nascar is not approved, then the company plans on building retail and residential


ps. if any of that was already said my apologies, i just joined a few minutes ago

RobF
October 28th, 2006, 01:25 PM
i think the track would be great. would boost business on the island like crazy. i could make more on the three weekends then i do all year round.

right now all they are doing on the site is doing an environmental clean up. the site used to house tankers so they had to replace the top layer of dirt in order to build anything there. if nascar is not approved, then the company plans on building retail and residential


ps. if any of that was already said my apologies, i just joined a few minutes ago

I don't think you have to apologize for anything.

But I think your contention that a track would boost business on the island like crazy has been debunked pretty well. So have the projected benefits from tax revenues generated.

A former owner of that site, a company called GATX did the clean up, as part of a settlement with the EPA. It's still contaminated. That's one of the reasons why it has to be covered with clean fill, and there have been some issues with that, too. There are several posts on this topic a few pages back.

How do you know there are plans for retail stores still? Did you know that property is not zoned at all for residential, and the City Council member who's district it is in has vowed to fight a change in that zoning? The city is also reviewing alternate plans for the whole West Shore, and I don't think they are thinking a racetrack will fit in.

nyzgreatst
October 29th, 2006, 11:38 PM
I don't think you have to apologize for anything.

But I think your contention that a track would boost business on the island like crazy has been debunked pretty well. So have the projected benefits from tax revenues generated.

A former owner of that site, a company called GATX did the clean up, as part of a settlement with the EPA. It's still contaminated. That's one of the reasons why it has to be covered with clean fill, and there have been some issues with that, too. There are several posts on this topic a few pages back.

How do you know there are plans for retail stores still? Did you know that property is not zoned at all for residential, and the City Council member who's district it is in has vowed to fight a change in that zoning? The city is also reviewing alternate plans for the whole West Shore, and I don't think they are thinking a racetrack will fit in.


i read it in the paper that they would turn it into commercial(retail) and residential if the track doesnt get approved. i mean the owner has to do something with it. spending all that money for the land just to do environmental clean-up wouldnt make much sense.

my thinking of boosting business would be: the amount of ppl that the track would bring to the area would boost business. im in the hospitality industry so a track on staten island would convince me to build a hotel on the island.

RobF
October 30th, 2006, 07:30 PM
i read it in the paper that they would turn it into commercial(retail) and residential if the track doesnt get approved. i mean the owner has to do something with it. spending all that money for the land just to do environmental clean-up wouldnt make much sense.

my thinking of boosting business would be: the amount of ppl that the track would bring to the area would boost business. im in the hospitality industry so a track on staten island would convince me to build a hotel on the island.

I have never heard anything from ISC about a plan B for that site, except to say that without racetrack approval, heavy industry would come, and " Industrial development on this site would require no public approvals and no community uses, and bring a lot more traffic to Staten Island 365 days a year."

I take that to be a threat. And it's been publically contradicted by City Planning and industry insiders.

I think tracks in other places, where fans come days early in motorhomes or stay at campgrounds, make cash for most local businesses. But this one will not be like those tracks. ISC promises to have all the fans gone 2 1/2 hours after last race.

And I don't think a residential developer is just going to get the zoning changed for housing. There is just too much evidence of restrictive zoning being used to limit building, here and all over the city, for that to happen.

You're not the only one who is thinking hotels, though..

A Queens developer sets sights on potential windfall from NASCAR track in Travis

http://www.silive.com/search/index.ssf?/base/news/1162116019292290.xml&coll=1

nyzgreatst
October 30th, 2006, 08:44 PM
I have never heard anything from ISC about a plan B for that site, except to say that without racetrack approval, heavy industry would come, and " Industrial development on this site would require no public approvals and no community uses, and bring a lot more traffic to Staten Island 365 days a year."

I take that to be a threat. And it's been publically contradicted by City Planning and industry insiders.

I think tracks in other places, where fans come days early in motorhomes or stay at campgrounds, make cash for most local businesses. But this one will not be like those tracks. ISC promises to have all the fans gone 2 1/2 hours after last race.

And I don't think a residential developer is just going to get the zoning changed for housing. There is just too much evidence of restrictive zoning being used to limit building, here and all over the city, for that to happen.

You're not the only one who is thinking hotels, though..

A Queens developer sets sights on potential windfall from NASCAR track in Travis

http://www.silive.com/search/index.ssf?/base/news/1162116019292290.xml&coll=1


yea i already knew about sam but a 69% occupancy and $109 ADR make staten island a fine place for more hotel rooms, with or without the track.

the hurdle is getting a holiday inn express approved. the hilton garden inn guy is trying to block any other hotels to come up on the island. the way it looks, he may win unless the track is born.

RobF
October 31st, 2006, 02:48 AM
nyzgreatst

Well it makes some sense. The island sure is growing.

The tracks the thing. The opposition is big, widespread, and has big mo.

nyzgreatst
October 31st, 2006, 09:55 PM
nyzgreatst

Well it makes some sense. The island sure is growing.

The tracks the thing. The opposition is big, widespread, and has big mo.


i just hope it doesnt get to the point where we are over populated like brooklyn or queens.

daver
November 15th, 2006, 02:19 PM
City Council Members Discuss Contaminated NASCAR Racetrack Site
November 14, 2006

In what some are calling yet another black-eye for a bid to build a NASCAR racetrack on Staten Island, the racing giant fielded questions about exactly what is being used to build up the site. And NY1’s Amanda Farinacci says questions are also being raised about the state and city agencies that are supposed to be keeping an eye on the work.

Everyone agrees that some four acres of fill on the 675 acre site of the planned NASCAR racetrack are contaminated. But by what? Who was supposed to monitor the operation? And just how toxic is the fill? These are just a few of the questions that came up at a city council oversight hearing Tuesday.

"We have had only vague statements from the Department of Environmental Conservation regarding what toxins were found in the fill material and what type of monitoring protocol was in effect at that time," said Staten Island City Councilman Michael McMahon.

The state DEC was supposed to oversee preparation of the proposed speedway site. But it was the city Department of Sanitation that found "inconsistent" levels of contaminants in the fill during a routine check in August. That finding sparked an investigation by the state agency in September - and the suspension of state and city permits.

On Tuesday a representative of the speedway's management company, 380 Development, revealed the racing giant knew back in May that it was using contaminated fill, but did nothing about it. Staten Island Councilman James Oddo wants to know why the city’s DOS and state’s DEP were not checking back then.

“August 22 is the first grab test by DOS and then even after that, in September, is the first time that one of these tests is found to be problematic by the DEC. That bothers me,” said Oddo. “Why, if fill is being placed at the site, was there not a grab test by DOS prior to that?”

The committee is suggesting revamping testing protocol for fill deposits. Meanwhile, 380 said it is already taken steps to fix the problem.

“380 is working diligently to establish state-of-the-art fill management program so that it can reacquire its permits and continue with permitted fill activities in a manner with all applicable requirements,” said Ken Paul of Ecolsciences, 380 Development.

The Committee is asking that the Department of Sanitation continue its grab inspections of the fill at the site, because it says it does not trust the Department of Environmental Conservation to do proper inspections. The Department of Sanitation says it will consider that request.

-Amanda Farinacci

JOEMANCO
November 28th, 2006, 02:10 AM
Brooklyn project shows that state involvement can override local sentiment

Sunday, November 26, 2006
By SALLY GOLDENBERG
STATEN ISLAND ADVANCE

Although plans for a NASCAR track on Staten Island face vigorous opposition in the City Council, a somewhat similar large-scale project in Brooklyn illustrates that state government can influence the process.

Despite local resistance, a plan to build 16 mostly residential towers and a basketball arena for the New Jersey Nets in Brooklyn is moving closer to getting the nod.

Developer Bruce Ratner is leaning on fervent support from Mayor Michael Bloomberg and high-ranking state politicians to open what otherwise would be a locked door for the Atlantic Yards project.

The circuitous route, which avoids a stop in the City Council, raises the question of whether the developer hoping to build a NASCAR track on the Island would use a similar tactic to avoid strife in the Council, which otherwise would cast the final vote on the 80,000-plus-seat stadium and adjoining retail center on the Island's West Shore.

NASCAR developer International Speedway Corp. repeatedly has said it will rely on local support. But with the three Island councilmen opposing the plan and the rest of the Council adopting an informal -- though not absolute -- policy of bowing to members on decisions that affect their respective districts, ISC has few discernible options to get approval for the track.

The Empire State Development Corp., a state agency with eminent domain power that it wielded with Atlantic Yards, also has said it would not get involved in pursuing the NASCAR track, though it had meetings with ISC in 2003 and 2004. "Our position was, and remains, that we look to the local authorities to make the key decisions on this matter," spokeswoman Vanessa Cuti said.

But come January, Gov.-elect Eliot Spitzer, a devout NASCAR fan, will make his own pick to head the development agency. It remains unclear where Spitzer stands on one of the borough's most contentious issues.

CIRCUMVENTING THE CITY?

Local politicos and land use analysts are split on whether ISC would try its hand in Albany, and if such a move would be successful.

"Eliot Spitzer just got elected with the largest vote percentage I think in modern history. The last thing he is going to do is squander his good will for a single development that there's no great desire for on the part of the electorate," said state Sen. Diane Savino (D-North Shore).

The Manhattan Institute for Policy Research said it's plausible but unlikely ISC will be able to circumvent the city with state support.

"In general, the state doesn't attempt major projects without local support," said senior fellow Nicole Gelinas. "And I would think politically, Spitzer would want to get a couple of high-profile upstate projects going before he starts another downstate project."
But Manhattan land use attorney Michael Rikon called the state prospect "a very real possibility."


"I think that the amount of money involved in that project makes it more likely that it will happen," Rikon said. "If they do go to the [state agency], and they agree to go forward with the project, [ISC] is exempt from local zoning and restrictions, so it's a very real concern and it happens quite often."

The Brooklyn councilwoman battling Atlantic Yards, Letitia James, cautioned the three Island councilmen about state involvement similar to that in the Ratner project, which soon will be in the hands of the Public Authorities Control Board in Albany.

"It's just beyond the pale and it violates all rules of engagement and democracy as we know it," Ms. James said. "They can go right around the City Council and go straight to the state because all roads lead to the state."

Michael Printup, ISC's track manager for the Island proposal, emphasized the developer is beholden to a city process that includes a public hearing called scoping.

"Look, there's many processes that we have to go through first. The first one is getting through the initial scoping hearing. We need to start there. We need to start with the technical process," he said.
But when asked whether ISC would seek support from Spitzer, the state development agency or other state officials, he said, "I'm not going to answer it. I don't know the answer to that question."

UNANSWERED QUESTIONS

Spitzer, through spokeswoman Christine Anderson, told the Advance in October he "is open to supporting it" but has unanswered questions, primarily about its economic impact. Multiple calls to Ms. Anderson for this story were not returned.
John D'Amato, an Island attorney and lobbyist for ISC on this project, has been one of Spitzer's most fruitful fund-raisers, garnering about $200,000 for Spitzer's gubernatorial campaign. D'Amato has said his ties to Spitzer are unrelated to the track proposal.
Councilman Michael McMahon (D-North Shore) said he is concerned about the possibility that Spitzer or the Empire State Development Corp. would undertake the NASCAR project. In May, he and Republican Councilmen James Oddo and Andrew Lanza wrote the state agency a letter expressing concern that it could "bypass the entire council" by condemning the land.

"I don't sleep easy at night with the notion that NASCAR is dead yet, because there is another avenue for them to follow," McMahon said last week.

Oddo, whose Mid-Island district would house the track, demanded a firm statement from the new governor.

"To me, whether it's now or early in his tenure, Gov. Spitzer has to come out and affirmatively say that this is a local decision," he said. "I think that ends any rumors or any fears."

Sally Goldenberg is a news reporter for the Advance. She may be reached at goldenberg@siadvance.com.

http://www.silive.com/news/advance/index.ssf?/base/news/116453790339770.xml&coll=1&thispage=2

JOEMANCO
November 28th, 2006, 02:18 AM
With fewer TV viewers, a foray into the New York market viewed as essential

Monday, November 27, 2006
By SALLY GOLDENBERG
Associated Press

It's no secret that the people who run NASCAR, one of the most popular sports in the country, are salivating at the prospect of building a motor track in New York City.
It would mean more money, access to the nation's most competitive media market and a leap in the sport's march away from its stereotypical "red state" fan base.
That hunger may be increasingly acute these days, with a well-publicized dip in television ratings and attendance at NASCAR races from 2005 to 2006.
Ratings show a drop in TV viewers of 33 of the 36 Nextel Cup series races this year. Three of the races enjoyed increased ratings, according to statistics compiled by Nielsen Media Research.
Among the 33 races in which ratings dipped, another three were difficult to characterize because the networks carrying those races switched from last year to this year.
The most notable declines were the Dodge Charger 500 in Darlington, S.C., which saw a 14 percent drop, the Coca-Cola 600 at Lowe's Motor Speedway in Charlotte, N.C., which suffered a 16 percent dip and the Ford 400 in Miami, which endured a 20 percent drop.
NASCAR executives have said the ratings decrease is not a cause for much apprehension because the sport has gained so much traction in recent years.
NEW YORK MARKET
But Staten Island officials and racing analysts say it accents the need for stock car racing in New York.
"That just underscores, in their minds, how imperative it is to be in the New York market," said City Councilman James Oddo (R-Mid-Island/Brooklyn).
To that end, NASCAR track developer International Speedway Corp. has been pushing a contentious proposal to build an 80,000-plus-seat raceway on Staten Island's West Shore for two years.
Local politicians and racing pundits say the drop in viewers gives the motor sports moguls even more reason to vie for a raceway in the Big Apple.
Despite the political, environmental and logistical hurdles they've faced since buying a 675-acre site for the track in 2004, ISC has been tenacious.
"Even though TV ratings are down, even though attendance is down somewhat, the possibility for them [in New York City] is endless if they can get in," said veteran racing columnist Mark DeCotis of Florida Today. "I read a story not long ago that the ratings in the big cities are not that good. I think that just having that presence [in New York City] would get them in on the ground floor and then they could go from there."
DeCotis said ISC's choice to build a 3/4-mile track on the Island indicates the company's desire to use a New York City raceway as a ratings booster, because the size of the proposed raceway is popular among spectators who like to watch drivers jammed together at high speeds.
'A SOAP OPERA'
"You put them on the 3/4-mile track and they're all on top of each other and they're slamming and banging into each other ... and that's what people want to see when they go to a race," he said. "It's a soap opera."
Andrew Giangola, a NASCAR spokesman, emphasized long-term ratings improvements, rather than the one-year drop. From 1996 through 2005, the Nielsen ratings showed an 86 percent increase in TV viewers per NASCAR event.
"2006 ratings, which are down slightly, are being compared to a record-setting year," he said. "Ratings fluctuate for any sports and entertainment property and for us, it's important to look at the long-term trends. NASCAR's ratings are up significantly over a period of 3, 5, 10, 20 years."
RACES ON ESPN
And the sport is banking on 2007 to be lucrative, since ESPN will launch race coverage and a NASCAR show, Giangola said.
"Next year is going to be a very dynamic year for the sport," Giangola said. "Are we happy to see ratings dip? Naturally, no. But we look at long-term trends and we also see where the sport is going."
Even though ISC has not gotten support yet from the City Council, which will have a final vote on the track, some politicos and land use analysts have speculated that the company may try to circumvent the council by seeking help from the state.
Track manager Michael Printup has repeatedly said it's a "city process," but when asked whether ISC would seek support from state officials, he said, "I don't know the answer to that question."
Sally Goldenberg is a news reporter for the Advance. She may be reached at goldenberg@siadvance.com.

© 2006 Staten Island Advance
© 2006 SILive.com All Rights Reserved.
http://www.silive.com/printer/printer.ssf?/base/news/1164634241282400.xml&coll=1

splicing
December 4th, 2006, 07:39 PM
FOR:International Speedway Corporation
CONTACT:
Wes Harris
Senior Director, Corporate and Investor
Communications
(386) 947-6465
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
INTERNATIONAL SPEEDWAY DISCONTINUES PURSUIT OF SPEEDWAY
DEVELOPMENT ON STATEN ISLAND;
WILL EXPLORE ALTERNATIVE STRATEGIES FOR PROPERTY
~ Company Remains Committed to a Metro New York Speedway Development ~
~ Will Record Non-Cash, Pre-Tax Charge of $75 - $85 Million in the Fiscal 2006 Fourth Quarter ~
DAYTONA BEACH, Fla. – December 4, 2006 – International Speedway Corporation (NASDAQ
Global Select Market: ISCA; OTC Bulletin Board: ISCB) ("ISC") today announced its decision to discontinue
pursuit of a speedway development on Staten Island. The Company will explore alternative strategies for the 676-
acre parcel of land it currently owns in the borough.
Strategic Rationale
ISC had been evaluating the feasibility of developing a motorsports entertainment facility on Staten Island
since late 2004. This study focused on a number of key project components such as:
• Evaluating the potential for securing the necessary land-use change and permitting approvals;
• Analyzing the potential requirements and related costs that would be imposed on the project as
conditions of any approvals received;
• Further analyzing the potential economic model for the speedway development, including
construction and other costs; and,
• Determining the level of available public incentives for the development.
The decision to discontinue speedway development efforts has been driven by a variety of factors,
including:
• The inability to secure the critical local political support that is necessary to secure the required
land-use change approvals for a speedway development;
ISC DISCONTINUES EFFORTS TO DEVELOP SPEEDWAY ON STATEN ISLAND PAGE 2
• Even if ISC had secured the necessary political support, it became apparent that the Company
would have been faced with unacceptable approval requirements, including operational restrictions
that would have made the facility difficult to operate and a significant challenge to market;
• The increased risk that these unacceptable approval requirements could result in higher
construction spending and annual operating costs, which would have a significant negative impact
on the financial model for the speedway development.
“While we are disappointed that we could not complete the speedway development on Staten Island, our
enthusiasm for the metropolitan New York market is in no way dampened and we continue to view the region as a
prime location for a major motorsports facility,” said ISC President Lesa France Kennedy. “We clearly believe that
if we had been able to proceed through the full public process, the significant benefits this project represents would
have generated a more positive reaction. However, based on the results of our feasibility study, specifically the
lack of political support and unacceptable land-use approval requirements, we have determined it is in the best
long-term interest of ISC to discontinue the Staten Island speedway development and pursue other strategic
alternatives for the property.”
Alternative Strategies for Staten Island Property
The Company will immediately begin to research and develop market demand studies to assist in the
evaluation of various alternative strategies, including potentially selling the property in whole or in parts, or
developing the property with a third party for some other use. ISC believes the value of the property will be in
excess of $100 million once it is filled and ready for sale.
Given that the property is the largest undeveloped acreage of land in the five boroughs of New York City,
ISC believes it will be attractive to a wide range of developers and users. The site is currently zoned as-of-right for
industrial use and could provide ease of access through a deep-water dock located on site. Also, the property can
be easily accessed from the local highway system.
Financial Impact
The decision to discontinue the speedway development efforts on Staten Island will result in a non-cash,
pre-tax charge in the Company’s fiscal 2006 fourth quarter results of approximately $75 to $85 million, or $0.90 to
$1.02 per diluted share after-tax. Accounting rules generally accepted in the US require that the property be valued
on a current, as is basis, which is estimated between $65 and $75 million. The Company has capitalized spending
of approximately $150 million through November 30, 2006, including: (1) $123 million for land and related
improvements, (2) $11 million for costs related solely to the development of the speedway, and (3) $16 million for
capitalized interest and property taxes.
ISC DISCONTINUES EFFORTS TO DEVELOP SPEEDWAY ON STATEN ISLAND PAGE 3
“Despite the political challenges we experienced,” continued Kennedy, “we appreciate the support from a
variety of groups on Staten Island including the business, civic and residential communities to bring a speedway to
the area. Due to the considerable interest and support for NASCAR racing in the region, we remain committed to
the pursuit of a motorsports entertainment facility development in the nation’s number one media market. We
believe a facility in this area represents a significant long-term opportunity for our company, and is one component
of several broader strategic growth opportunities ahead for ISC. We look forward to our continued success in
achieving these opportunities and sharing our progress in the future.”
International Speedway Corporation is a leading promoter of motorsports activities, currently promoting
more than 100 racing events annually as well as numerous other motorsports-related activities. The Company owns
and/or operates 11 of the nation’s major motorsports entertainment facilities, including Daytona International
Speedway in Florida (home of the Daytona 500); Talladega Superspeedway in Alabama; Michigan International
Speedway located outside Detroit; Richmond International Raceway in Virginia; California Speedway near Los
Angeles; Kansas Speedway in Kansas City, Kansas; Phoenix International Raceway in Arizona; Homestead-Miami
Speedway in Florida; Martinsville Speedway in Virginia; Darlington Raceway in South Carolina; and Watkins
Glen International in New York.
Other motorsports entertainment facility ownership includes an indirect 37.5 percent interest in Raceway
Associates, LLC, which owns and operates Chicagoland Speedway and Route 66 Raceway near Chicago, Illinois.
In addition, ISC is a limited partner with Group Motorisé International in the organization and promotion of certain
events at Circuit Gilles Villeneuve in Montreal, Canada.
The Company also owns and operates MRN Radio, the nation's largest independent sports radio network;
DAYTONA USA, the "Ultimate Motorsports Attraction" in Daytona Beach, Florida, the official attraction of
NASCAR; and subsidiaries which provide catering services, food and beverage concessions, and produce and
market motorsports-related merchandise under the trade name "Americrown." In addition, ISC has an indirect 50
percent interest in a business called Motorsports Authentics, which markets and distributes motorsports-related
merchandise licensed by certain competitors in NASCAR racing. For more information, visit the Company's Web
site at www.iscmotorsports.com (http://www.iscmotorsports.com).
Statements made in this release that express the Company's or management's beliefs or expectations and which are
not historical facts or which are applied prospectively are forward-looking statements. It is important to note that the
Company's actual results could differ materially from those contained in or implied by such forward-looking statements. The
Company's results could be impacted by risk factors, including, but not limited to, weather surrounding racing events,
government regulations, economic conditions, consumer and corporate spending, military actions, air travel and national or
local catastrophic events. Additional information concerning factors that could cause actual results to differ materially from
those in the forward-looking statements is contained from time to time in the Company’s SEC filings including, but not limited
to, the 10-K and subsequent 10-Qs. Copies of those filings are available from the Company and the SEC. The Company
undertakes no obligation to release publicly any revisions to these forward-looking statements that may be needed to reflect
events or circumstances after the date hereof or to reflect the occurrence of unanticipated events. The inclusion of any
statement in this release does not constitute an admission by International Speedway or any other person that the events or
circumstances described in such statement are material.
# # #

lofter1
December 4th, 2006, 08:42 PM
Don't let the door hit you in the butt as you leave ...

antinimby
December 5th, 2006, 05:10 AM
Plan for Nascar Speedway Is Scrapped on Staten Island


By ALAN FEUER
Published: December 5, 2006 (http://www.nytimes.com/2006/12/05/nyregion/05nascar.html)

Faced with unyielding opposition from residents who complained that Staten Island’s roads were already too congested, a Florida company dropped plans for a 82,000-seat Nascar speedway on the island, officials said yesterday.

After two years, plans for the speedway — a three-quarter-mile track to have been built on an abandoned oil tank farm near the Goethals Bridge — were scuttled on Thursday by the board of directors of the International Speedway Corporation, said Wes Harris, a company spokesman.

“The reality of it is the board came to the conclusion that the politics was going to be such that we could not be successful,” Mr. Harris said.

In May 2004, officials of the company, a Nascar affiliate based in Daytona Beach, Fla., announced plans to transform 450 acres of unused industrial land on the northwest tip of Staten Island into the New York base for the country’s most popular sport.

In order to relieve the inevitable traffic, they had proposed a complex network of ferries, charter buses and park-and-ride lots that would have allowed fans to reach the site during the three race weekends that were expected to be scheduled each year.

They had also promised more than $350 million in construction wages during the two years it would have taken to build the track and said the track would have contributed $200 million to the economy annually, including ticket sales, food and beverage sales and hotel bookings. To help them navigate the shoals of city politics, they hired Guy V. Molinari, a former borough president, as a lobbyist.

But Mr. Harris acknowledged yesterday that the board finally realized that even Mr. Molinari, who did not return a telephone call seeking comment last night, could not help them overcome Staten Island’s three-man City Council team, which came out in vociferous and early opposition to the track.

One of the councilmen, James S. Oddo, the Council’s minority leader, called the company’s move “a monumental victory for the people of Staten Island” in a statement released yesterday. Another, Michael E. McMahon, called the development “a huge victory” and “delightful,” saying he had considered the project a “sow’s ear” from the start.

“I am glad that the Nascar people finally understand what I have said all along,” Mr. McMahon said in his statement, “that to put a 100,000-seat Nascar track on the west shore of Staten Island is what my mother would call a schnapps idea.”

Almost from the start, the plan was met with condemnation from a diverse crowd of skeptics, including Manhattan-based environmentalists and Staten Island homemakers.

In April, the Sierra Club issued a report saying the project would pollute the air, require filling in nearly 15 acres of fragile saltwater wetlands and harm several wildlife species.

A few days later, a public hearing on the track devolved into fisticuffs when more than 1,000 people converged on a meeting hall in Staten Island, including a union carpenter who tussled with Staten Island’s third councilman, Andrew J. Lanza.

At the time, Mr. Lanza said he was simply trying to express his views when “a guy put a bear hug on me, threatening me while guys standing in front of him were urging him, ‘Punch him in the face.’ ” After the confrontation, the police shut down the hearing, saying the auditorium’s capacity had been exceeded. There was no other hearing on the matter.

“We honestly don’t know what happened at that hearing ourselves,” said Michael P. Printup, an International Speedway official. There was support for the track early on, according to Mr. Printup, but after the hearing, “something turned.”

Mr. Harris said the company, which bought the land for $100 million, would now study other ways to use it, though he refused to say last night what those might be.

He also refused to give up on the idea of bringing Nascar racing to the nation’s largest media market, though he admitted that New York could be a tough town for business.

In Chicago, he said, it took several tries for International Speedway to settle on a site for a track, but eventually the company was successful.

“The challenge with New York is everything’s magnified 10 times over,” he said.


Copyright 2006 The New York Times Company

STT757
December 5th, 2006, 10:23 AM
The only suitable location for a NASCAR track in the Tri-State area is the Meadowlands Sports complex, it's already receiving huge infastructure improvements via new roadways and the NJ Transit rail spur.

An earlier plan envisioned the NASCAR oval being built around the current Meadowlands race track (Horses), the outer track would be NASCAR and the inner would be for Horse racing. The grand stands and concession areas would be joint usage.

krulltime
December 5th, 2006, 11:01 AM
He also refused to give up on the idea of bringing Nascar racing to the nation’s largest media market, though he admitted that New York could be a tough town for business.

In Chicago, he said, it took several tries for International Speedway to settle on a site for a track, but eventually the company was successful.

“The challenge with New York is everything’s magnified 10 times over,” he said.

'Let this be a lesson to any other developer!' - NIMBY's

:rolleyes: Go on Chicago! Keep making those developers happier!

daver
December 5th, 2006, 11:06 AM
'Let this be a lesson to any other developer!' - NIMBY's

:rolleyes: Go on Chicago! Keep making those developers happier!
Interesting. So do you think that we should have a Nascar track in NYC?

krulltime
December 5th, 2006, 11:25 AM
Interesting. So do you think that we should have a Nascar track in NYC?

Why not? That area will have been perfect. There is nothing special there where this will have been built. Yes there will be traffic on Nascar days but it will also be an attraction for Staten Island. Especially for this abandon area. So there are few homes close (probably yours) by that might be 'affected'. Big deal. The South Bronx has more people in the proximity to the Yankees stadium and it hasn't done any harm to them. They still live there. I think the area is going to get better. I (and many others in the city and abroad) will sure check out Nascar if it was there.

The thing is that the Staten Island location will have been a perfect location for this Nascar thing. I don't see any other location besides NJ in the meadows. Who wants to go to NJ to spend our NYC dollars?

Currently that land is a dump. It will probably always be. You won. Be happy.

daver
December 5th, 2006, 12:49 PM
My (rental) house is about as far from the proposed track location as can be. Well, without moving to NJ or something. I don't have a horse in this race anyhow, as I am fairly new to Staten Island and not planning on staying there long term. It is not a good location for me because of my work location and the location of things I want to do in my free time. I spend WAY too much time commuting.

In any case, thanks for your perspective, I'm still formulating my opinion about a lot of things around here and it helps to hear different views.

TonyO
December 5th, 2006, 02:35 PM
This is a good result in my opinion. A NASCAR track anywhere in or near the city is just not NY. They should make this site a park or a golf course.

lofter1
December 5th, 2006, 02:38 PM
The majority of Staten Islanders didn't want nascar on that site -- hence the lack of political backing for the developers.

wrong project ... no big loss.

daver
December 5th, 2006, 03:25 PM
This is a good result in my opinion. A NASCAR track anywhere in or near the city is just not NY. They should make this site a park or a golf course.
Meanwhile, not far away...

Fresh Kills in 2016

Could Staten Island become the California of New York?

By Alexandra Lange (http://newyorkmetro.com/nymag/author_141)http://newyorkmetro.com/realestate/features/2016/freshhills060529_560.jpg
With miles of biking and running trails, serpentine water features, a wind farm, and a 9/11 memorial, the world's biggest dump is becoming a world-class park. (Inset: Fresh Kills before.) (Photo: Bottom left, courtesy of Cryptome; Rendering courtesy of Field Operations/The City of New York)

http://nymag.com/images/2/graphics/redesign06/news/06/05/2016_sidebar_184.jpg (http://nymag.com/realestate/features/2016/17143/index.html)


The (New) New York (http://nymag.com/realestate/features/2016/17143/)
Lower Manhattan (http://nymag.com/realestate/features/2016/17144/)
Brooklyn and Queens Waterfront (http://nymag.com/realestate/features/2016/17145/)
High Line (http://nymag.com/realestate/features/2016/17147/)
Midtown West (http://nymag.com/realestate/features/2016/17147/index1.html)
Harlem (http://nymag.com/realestate/features/2016/17148/)
Fresh Kills (http://nymag.com/realestate/features/2016/17149/)
Hunts Point (http://nymag.com/realestate/features/2016/17150/)
Downtown Brooklyn (http://nymag.com/realestate/features/2016/17151/)
Flushing (http://nymag.com/realestate/features/2016/17152/)
How You'll Get Around (http://nymag.com/realestate/features/2016/17146/)'Fresh Kills is to the 21st century as Central Park was to the nineteenth,” says Parks Commissioner Benepe. “It will be the largest park built in the city in more than 100 years.” By 2016, New Yorkers will be able to mountain-bike, kayak, hike, cross-country ski, fish, and bird-watch in what is perhaps the unlikeliest home for such an effusion of West Coast outdoorspersonship: Staten Island.

“Staten Island has been the place people drive through on their way to somewhere else,” says James Corner of Field Operations, landscape architects for the 2,200-acre Fresh Kills Lifescape (as well as the High Line), the radical evolution of despised landfill into the most desirable Saturday-afternoon destination.

But all it takes is a gateway flanked by wind turbines to change all that. The Staten Island Expressway will become the main north-south artery of a four-part park, each landfill mound capped and transformed into a different, rugged, evocative landscape. As you drive south along Route 440, your first view will be of the meadows of the north mound, its rounded peak topped with kite-fliers. At the confluence of Fresh Kills and Main Creek, a ring road will take you to the activity center: the Creek Landing, with a sloping concrete boat launch and event lawn, and the Point, its urbane counterpart, with a water’s-edge promenade of restaurants, art installations, and outdoor markets. It is here that the ferry from Battery Park, an hour away, will dock.

Those turbines (a meteorological tower is currently testing the wind) are key to the story Corner wants to tell—and the reason behind the pretentious term lifescape. This isn’t meant to be a landscape, pretty as a picture, but land at work. Methane will continue to be harvested from the landfill under the park’s rough-and-tumble meadows, forests, and marshes. As its emissions taper off, the winds will take over as a minor revenue generator. Corner also thinks the park will attract its share of eco- and archi-tourism. Parts of the park will be open starting in 2008 (pending this year’s environmental review). By 2016, the north and south sections, plus the activity centers, should all be built out.

“The park is not only green and beautiful but also emblematic of a huge 21st-century reclamation—that’s what’s important here,” Corner says. “It is the contemporary sense of healing the Earth as a technological notion.” The park will have an explicit educational component—a marsh interpretive center in the east park, as well as a stunning September 11 memorial (also part of phase one) in the west park: two World Trade Center–size mounds laid out on the ground, with a view of the Freedom Tower from the top.

http://nymag.com/realestate/features/2016/17149/

ASchwarz
December 5th, 2006, 03:44 PM
Don't let the door hit you in the butt as you leave ...

NASCAR isn't leaving. All that's happening is that New Jersey (once again, see Jets Westside proposal, countless downzonings, etc.) is going to build the NASCAR track, so they get all the revenue, jobs and visitors, while we lose the benefits (unless you count traffic headed to Jersey as a benefit).

Once again, a big opportunity arises and NIMBYs kill it. BTW, traffic was the given reason for opposition to the track, which is hilarious because 1. The track would only have two annual events (compare it to retail centers, which will eventually be built and will attract traffic all day every day) and 2. The track is located on the extreme northwest edge of the island and wouldn't have affected 95% of the island. Jersey would have had the most traffic impact.

Shame on Spitzer and Bloomberg. They need to stand up to the anti-everythings.

daver
December 5th, 2006, 04:07 PM
Once again, a big opportunity arises and NIMBYs kill it. BTW, traffic was the given reason for opposition to the track, which is hilarious because 1. The track would only have two annual events (compare it to retail centers, which will eventually be built and will attract traffic all day every day) and 2. The track is located on the extreme northwest edge of the island and wouldn't have affected 95% of the island. Jersey would have had the most traffic impact.
I disagree that the traffic "wouldn't have affected 95% of the island." Sometimes it seems like Staten Island is the world's biggest throughfare, passing people through from NJ to Brooklyn and on to Long Island at all times of the day and night. Most of this traffic comes over Goethals and Outerbridge. Either way, they both cross through the corner where WSE turns onto SIE. Where the track was planned, more or less. When that way gets busy, folks take the "alternate route" following Hylan all the way around South Shore, and that turns into a nightmare.

I'm not saying that the traffic issue is insurmountable in any way, for instance I suspect closing down Verrazano once a year for the marathon is much more detrimental than the NASCAR track would have been. But it would definitely affect more than 5% of Islanders, and also a heck of a lot of folks coming through from/to Brooklyn Queens Long Island to NJ and back.

And in any case, it wouldn't have bothered me much because I generally take the Ferry and the Railway anyhow.

JCMAN320
December 5th, 2006, 06:17 PM
NASCAR pulls plug on Staten Island speedway

In a move that will allay fears of heavy traffic in Bayonne, plans to build a NASCAR race track on Staten Island have been scrapped.

"While we are disappointed that we could not complete the speedway development on Staten Island, our enthusiasm for the metropolitan New York market is in no way dampened,'' International Speedway Corp. president Lesa France Kennedy. "We continue to view the region as a prime location for a major motorsports facility.''

France Kennedy heads ISC, the publicly traded sister company of NASCAR — which was founded by her grandfather and currently chaired by her brother, Brian France

Both companies badly want to expand NASCAR into the New York metropolitan area, and moved toward that goal in 2004 when a subsidiary of ISC paid about $100 million for a 440-acre former oil tank farm on Staten Island. The company later bought another 236 acres to gain the necessary land for a race track.

The goal was to build a 0.8-mile state-of-the-art track that would have accommodated 80,000 fans and had the New York City skyline as its backdrop.

But the proposal has been met by severe resistance, including a a hotly contested April public meeting in which tempers reached dangerous levels — forcing police to end the meeting over safety concerns.

Residents of Staten Island and Bayonne have complained of traffic tie-ups and argued that the two major roads leading into the property would likely need major renovations to handle the increased loads.

"After all was said and done, NASCAR was simply an inappropriate fit,'' said New York City Councilman James S. Oddo.

Associated Press

Strattonport
December 5th, 2006, 08:45 PM
I'm not saying that the traffic issue is insurmountable in any way, for instance I suspect closing down Verrazano once a year for the marathon is much more detrimental than the NASCAR track would have been.

So you think generating $188 million dollars and reducing traffic in the city for a day (http://www.streetsblog.org/2006/11/07/if-a-262-mile-half-day-street-closure-generates-188m/) isn't preferable to drawing more traffic?


And in any case, it wouldn't have bothered me much because I generally take the Ferry and the Railway anyhow.

Traffic congestion affects everyone even if you don't drive.

ASchwarz
December 5th, 2006, 09:32 PM
Traffic congestion affects everyone even if you don't drive.

How would traffic congestion two weekends a year affect non-drivers?

This is NYC. People shouldn't be driving anyways. Buses, cabs and delivery vehicles should have priority.

antinimby
December 5th, 2006, 11:17 PM
and moved toward that goal in 2004 when a subsidiary of ISC paid about $100 million for a 440-acre former oil tank farm on Staten Island. The company later bought another 236 acres to gain the necessary land for a race track.Ouch.

That's a lot of dough.

What are they going to do with it now?

splicing
December 5th, 2006, 11:54 PM
How would traffic congestion two weekends a year affect non-drivers?

This is NYC. People shouldn't be driving anyways. Buses, cabs and delivery vehicles should have priority.

Obviously, people have been fed only certain pieces of information. I'm not picking on you, ASchwarz, but you have repeated a delusion of many. Here's why:

Attached to the proposed NASCAR track was a proposed retail center - 620,000 square feet a retail space, to be exact. This retail center would be open virtually every day of the year with ZERO accessibility to public transportation. Everyone would be arriving by car.

Here is an excerpt from page S-8 of ISC's Traffic Management Plan:

"Based on standard trip generation rates for shopping centers, it is estimated that the proposed retail site would generate about 1,900 - 2,000 vehicle trips for WEEKDAY peak hours and 3,350 and 1,725 vehicle trips for the Saturday and Sunday peak hours, respectively."

Correct me if I'm wrong, but 1,900 to 3,350 "vehicle trips" per hour, on top of existing traffic, sounds like a problem.
And....don't forget that the retail center would be open on race days too!

daver
December 6th, 2006, 09:32 AM
So you think generating $188 million dollars and reducing traffic in the city for a day (http://www.streetsblog.org/2006/11/07/if-a-262-mile-half-day-street-closure-generates-188m/) isn't preferable to drawing more traffic?
I'm not sure how you inferred that from my post. I don't think that at all. I simply stated that a current event has a greater traffic impact than the Nascar track would have, and that we are currently dealing with it, by way of comparison. I made no judgement as to which was preferable. If you would like my personal opinion, then put me in the column of people favorable to the marathon.

daver
December 6th, 2006, 10:44 AM
http://www.silive.com/images/advance/siadvance.gif
Fate of NASCAR site unclear, but traffic is still the issue

Councilmen asking help from the mayor's office in planning for 675 acres

Wednesday, December 06, 2006 By SALLY GOLDENBERG

STATEN ISLAND ADVANCE
With International Speedway Corp.'s bombshell announcement Monday that it is scrapping its plan to build a NASCAR track on Staten Island's West Shore, attention is shifting to the future of the largest parcel of undeveloped land in New York City.

Speculation is already swirling that the 675-acre site ISC owns near the Goethals Bridge will be home to a massive shopping mall, a park, or an industrial site that could bring more of a traffic burden than the unsuccessful raceway, which would have hosted three events each year.

Every area politician has a different vision for the land, which is zoned for industrial use and formerly housed an oil-tank farm. ISC purchased the site for $110 million in late 2004 and now hopes to sell it to a developer.

The borough's three city councilmen, who said traffic concerns influenced their ardent resistance to ISC's proposal for an 82,500-seat track and adjacent retail complex, penned a letter to Mayor Bloomberg's administration on May 9, asking that the city consider buying the site for a variety of designs, such as open space, schools or hospitals.

The letter from Councilmen Michael McMahon (D-North Shore), Andrew Lanza (R-South Shore) and James Oddo (R-Mid-Island/Brooklyn) also asked the administration to help plot a future for the site, should the raceway plan fail.

Now that it has, Deputy Mayor Daniel Doctoroff said the city will evaluate the future of the site as part of a larger plan to redevelop the Island's entire West Shore.

"We haven't looked at buying it, and I think that before we reach any conclusions, we're going to go through the process of really studying the area," Doctoroff told the Advance last night.

"There's a huge area with very little economic activity on it. Wherever you have large, underutilized tracts of land, that's an opportunity," he said. "On the other hand, it has significant environmental issues. There are wetland issues -- brownfield regulations are often unclear. There are going to be transportation challenges."

The city will hire a consultant in early 2007 to determine an overarching development plan for the Island's West and North shores, which encompass 11 square miles, he said. A city study into developing 5,700 acres along the West Shore, including ISC's site, has been under way for more than a year but has not yielded any changes.

"If there was a 675-acre vacant parcel in Williamsburg, Brooklyn, or the South Bronx or the Upper West Side of Manhattan, the city would be working very hard to plan its future," McMahon said, "I'm disappointed that the administration is not taking a closer look at this, but I'm working to press them to do so."

Borough President James Molinaro scoffed at the councilmen's suggestion, saying the property should bring jobs and tax revenue to the borough.

"This is for business development," he said. "We have enough passive recreation on Staten Island to last us for the next 4,000 years. It's a tax-generating site that could put hundreds of people to work and make a good living."

ISC is planning to hire its own consultant to study the land's marketability, but is not rushing to sell the parcel. "There's nobody knocking on our door with checks all lined up. We're going to take our time," said ISC's manager for the Island proposal, Michael Printup.

The fate of the site could influence the political legacies of the councilmen, who fiercely opposed the NASCAR plan, and some have voiced concern that an alternative use could invite more traffic to the borough.

"What else can they do with this property? We're going to have more trucks and more traffic and no improvements, nothing for our community," said New Dorp resident Robert Hill, an avid NASCAR fan.

But Oddo stressed that the councilmen were right not to welcome a project they opposed for "fear of the unknown, and the threat of what could be."

Sally Goldenberg is a news reporter for the Advance. She may be reached at goldenberg@siadvance.com.

http://www.silive.com/news/advance/index.ssf?/base/news/1165411842246270.xml&coll=1

JOEMANCO
December 6th, 2006, 10:18 PM
Screeching halt for NASCAR

Plan for Island race track is dead as backers bow to stiff opposition

Tuesday, December 05, 2006
By SALLY GOLDENBERG
STATEN ISLAND ADVANCE

It's all over for NASCAR.

Two years after buying a huge swath of undeveloped land on Staten Island's West Shore, International Speedway Corp. yesterday scrapped its controversial plan to build a NASCAR raceway with 82,500 seats, citing fierce political opposition as the insurmountable hurdle.
ISC, which was bitterly opposed by those worried about traffic congestion on race weekends, said it plans to sell the 675-acre parcel in Bloomfield, and despite yesterday's announcement still hopes to build a raceway somewhere within 30 miles of Manhattan.
"While we are disappointed that we could not complete the speedway development on Staten Island, our enthusiasm for the metropolitan New York market is in no way dampened and we continue to view the region as a prime location for a major motorsports facility," ISC President Lesa France Kennedy said.
Breaking into New York City's competitive media market has long been a goal of the fast-growing sport with deep Southern roots. ISC spent roughly $150 million on the failed project to build a track -- which was to have played host to three races a year -- and an attendant 620,000-square-foot retail complex.
Island politicians had been neutral to vitriolic in their opinion of the plan, citing traffic concerns that were exacerbated when ISC suggested shutting two consecutive ramps onto the Staten Island Expressway after races. The Island's three-man City Council contingent was implacably opposed -- and the Council would have had final say on the raceway plan.
Anti-track sentiment built in April when the first and only public hearing on the track turned rowdy and Councilman Andrew Lanza (R-South Shore) was nearly put into a headlock by a track supporter. Fearing for public safety, police shut down the meeting soon after it started.
IMPACT OF POLITICS
"The reality of it is that you clearly can tell that the politics, from a Staten Island perspective, has not lined up in our favor," said Wes Harris, ISC's investor relations director. "That's the disappointing part, that the politics played a primary role. We think it could've been a home run."
ISC decided to pull the plug now in part because Lanza was elected to the state Senate in November and the company didn't anticipate a new Council member supporting the plan.

"All summer long, we sat quietly, because we've kind of been thrown in with these elections. ... They've always played a role in timing," said Michael Printup, manager for the Island proposal. "We expected Lanza to win.... We had to evaluate if he wins, who's taking over that role."
Based on the anticipated candidates to replace Lanza, most notably South Shore Assemblyman Vincent Ignizio, who heads the Island GOP, Printup said ISC "didn't see our tide changing."
The company's board of directors met on Thursday during NASCAR's annual Championship Week in Manhattan and voted to drop its plan, Printup said.


The decision contradicts ISC's mantra that it was working to perfect a race-day traffic plan sometime this month. But the publicly traded company could no longer justify the expense; all told, the company had planned to spend $600 million on the project.
Aside from opposition, the corporation cited environmental difficulties -- which were highlighted in September when it lost its permits to bring soil onto the site for grading -- and an inability to secure necessary land-use-change approvals for construction. The City Council would have voted on those approvals.
"In every fiber of my being, I believe this is a victory for the people of Staten Island," said Councilman James Oddo, a Republican whose Mid-Island/Brooklyn district includes the track site. "You can't take an Island that has essentially no mass transit system, that has four bridges, three of which are over-utilized or antiquated, and drop this monstrosity on top of this without there being implications."
ISC'S PLAN B
ISC now plans to research alternative uses for the site in order to market the property, which is zoned for industrial use. The company would not say whether The Related Companies, which had teamed with ISC and planned to build a mall on 55 acres of the site, would soldier on.
One Island real estate broker, J. Delbert Smith, said that despite ISC's professed desire to sell the property, he expects Related to build 1 million square feet of retail space on the site. "If the million square feet does well, they will build another million square feet," he predicted.
Deputy County Clerk Mario DiRe said the re-sale price of the land, which cost ISC $110 million in late 2004, depends on how popular it is with potential buyers. Though ISC has cleaned up the site, which formerly housed an oil tank farm, the local real estate market has softened, he said.
"I hadn't heard anybody discussing any interest in it. I think a lot of people probably would've shied away from the price," DiRe said.
But Borough President James Molinaro said he knows of at least two potential developers whose plans would not require any zoning changes. He would not name the companies.
Councilman Michael McMahon, the North Shore Democrat, wants the city to purchase the land and study potential uses.
"To me, that would be the perfect world, for the city to buy it. What I would dream of is having a golf course there -- but it's not for me to say," McMahon said.
John Gallagher, a spokesman for Dan Doctoroff, deputy mayor for economic development, said the city has been studying uses for the entire West Shore and "will work with stakeholders to responsibly move forward with the best possible proposal for the site."
-- Advance staff writers Karen O'Shea and John Annese contributed to this report.

Sally Goldenberg is a news reporter for the Advance. She may be reached at goldenberg@siadvance.com.

http://www.silive.com/news/nascar/advance/index.ssf?/base/news/1165325402261870.xml&coll=1

BigMac
December 3rd, 2007, 03:09 PM
NY Sun
December 3, 2007

City Should Give Nascar Another Lap

By ALICIA COLON

"Jimmie Johnson? Why he's like the Michael Jordan of car racing," my stepson Bill said ecstatically after I told him I had been invited to meet Nascar's 2007 champion at the '21' Club. Because my stepson is a big fan, I asked him for background.

I had suggested in a recent column that Nascar coming to Staten Island was a good thing, but the deal was subsequently quashed by local politicians and residents who feared traffic congestion. The more I learn about the Nascar community, the more I've come to believe that New York missed a great opportunity.

Some 150,000 enthusiasts lined Manhattan streets Wednesday for the fourth annual Nascar Victory Lap, and when I arrived at 21, fans of all ages were outside the restaurant hoping to snare Mr. Johnson's autograph. I'm not sure what I expected from the icons of auto racing, but I might just as well been at a Fortune 500 get-together. I had to have Mr. Johnson pointed out to me, because in his dark blue suit he looked like a young Wall Street trader. It turns out that Mr. Johnson and his wife, Chandra, have rented in Manhattan for the past four years and are reportedly purchasing an apartment in Chelsea.

I spoke to several Nascar officials who confirmed that International Speedway Corp. had finalized its deal with a trucking distribution warehouse company, Pro-Logis, to take over the Bloomfield site in Staten Island that was to be the home of the proposed Nascar track. At the luncheon, I sat at the table of team owner Rick Hendrick, who shared anecdotes about other communities that had nixed Nascar racetracks, only to find themselves with less desirable replacements.

I learned the next day that in fact the deal with ProLogis had fallen through and the Bloomfield site was once again vacant. I wondered whether Nascar would now be welcomed.

All three Staten Island City Council members had objected to the racetrack. Council Member Vincent Ignizio, who replaced Andrew Lanza upon the latter's election to the state senate, reiterated the objection to Nascar. A spokesman for Michael McMahon confirmed that the council member favored other options for the site and would not support a Nascar revival offer. The minority leader, James Oddo, told me: "Unlike Lazarus, Nascar will not be rising again."

I respect the need of these politicians to heed the demands of their constituents. The politicians are followers and lack a vision for our community. The overriding complaint about having Nascar races on Staten Island was the traffic issue, even though the events would only occur a few times a year. I had the misfortune to take an express bus home from Manhattan and there was nothing express about that trip. Traffic was stalled for miles approaching the Verrazano-Narrows Bridge.

Whatever is being done right now to alleviate the congestion is obviously not working. We have three new huge ferries that are equipped to take cars and buses, but since the attacks of September 11, 2001, vehicles have been banned even though it would be a simple matter to have them checked for explosive devices before boarding. Efforts to revive the West Side rail link to New Jersey have gone nowhere. Isn't it at least conceivable that having a huge endeavor like Nascar would spur a traffic solution?

The Bloomfield site is zoned for industrial development. That's not going to change. Residents who've opposed the racetrack are living in some kind of dream world if they think whatever replaces ProLogis will have a benign impact on the island. Funny how the traffic issue never arose when we were vying for the Olympics. In the meantime, we're all sweating an increase in the subway fare or property taxes. The mammoth revenue the races would bring to the city would definitely dispel that anxiety.

When the Nascar proposal was first offered, I had no interest in it. But when I did some homework and learned how big this sport is, my views began to change. Auto racing in toto is the largest spectator sport in the nation, even though it ranks low in television ratings. Try getting a hotel room in the Poconos when there's an event. Families plan their year around the Nascar schedule. I never could understand the excitement of a former bowling league partner, Marie, when she rhapsodized about the trek she and her husband planned to Daytona, Fla. Now I do.

I hear Governor Spitzer is a fan, and if that's so, maybe it will be through Nascar that he reconnects with the New Yorkers he lost during his recent controversies. I hope so.

acolon@nysun.com

© 2007 The New York Sun, One SL, LLC.

lofter1
December 3rd, 2007, 07:19 PM
So, the point being ... She thinks that richer people in suits over-crowding the roads is somehow more acceptable than ordinary folks doing the same?

ZippyTheChimp
December 3rd, 2007, 07:57 PM
...the traffic issue, even though the events would only occur a few times a year.

In the meantime, we're all sweating an increase in the subway fare or property taxes. The mammoth revenue the races would bring to the city would definitely dispel that anxiety.OK, the traffic issue may be a non-issue.

But switching gears, the mammoth revenues from 4 events is going to help keep subway fares and property taxes in check.

Dang, Alicia, it's a drop in the bucket.

splicing
December 3rd, 2007, 11:51 PM
Obviously, people have been fed only certain pieces of information. I'm not picking on you, ASchwarz, but you have repeated a delusion of many. Here's why:

Attached to the proposed NASCAR track was a proposed retail center - 620,000 square feet a retail space, to be exact. This retail center would be open virtually every day of the year with ZERO accessibility to public transportation. Everyone would be arriving by car.

Here is an excerpt from page S-8 of ISC's Traffic Management Plan:

"Based on standard trip generation rates for shopping centers, it is estimated that the proposed retail site would generate about 1,900 - 2,000 vehicle trips for WEEKDAY peak hours and 3,350 and 1,725 vehicle trips for the Saturday and Sunday peak hours, respectively."

Correct me if I'm wrong, but 1,900 to 3,350 "vehicle trips" per hour, on top of existing traffic, sounds like a problem.
And....don't forget that the retail center would be open on race days too!

I get to quote myself here.:)

Traffic was and still is the issue.
ISC's "plan" also called for 350 buses to be routed on residential streets and the closure of public highway entrances and exits to suit their needs.

It's amazing how quickly people forget.

STT757
December 4th, 2007, 10:15 AM
The only facility that can really host a NASCAR facility is the Meadowlands, they are right on the Turnpike, close to I-80 and a NJ Transit rail spur is currently under construction.

bigkdc
December 5th, 2007, 09:10 AM
The only facility that can really host a NASCAR facility is the Meadowlands, they are right on the Turnpike, close to I-80 and a NJ Transit rail spur is currently under construction.

I recall years ago there was serious consideration for that - how come that hasn't come back? They have the space and seems like the meadowlands could use it given the izod center wont have an anchor tenant soon and could become obsolete.