111 Central Park North - Harlem - Condo

[krulltime]

HARLEM HIGH-RISE PLANNED


By BRADEN KEIL
July 16, 2004

Central Park North could become the next Fifth Avenue — or at least Central Park South — with the arrival of a new luxury high-rise building planned for the long-neglected Harlem boulevard facing the famed park.

The Post has learned that luxury condominium builder, The Athena Group, has bought three property parcels at the northwest corner of Central Park North and Lenox Ave. It plans to construct an upscale doorman building that would rise 20 floors with as many as 80 units, if the plans are approved.

"This is an opportunity for New Yorkers to be on the park at roughly half the price of Central Park South," said Athena CEO Louis Dubin. "And I think these are the best views of the park, and the city, from that vantage point."

Dubin said the building would have units ranging from one to four bedrooms at prices between $500,000 and $1.7 million.

Last month, the Post reported a migration of middle-class families and single professionals taking advantage of the low prices and grand spaces. Several apartment buildings are now in the process of floor-by-floor renovations.

Once the permits are in place, Dubin hopes to begin demolition by spring 2005.


Copyright 2004 NYP Holdings, Inc.

[RedFerrari360f1]

I have always woundered how long it would take for CP North to get exspensive. Guess the wait is over.

[billyblancoNYC]

I have always woundered how long it would take for CP North to get exspensive. Guess the wait is over.

Yeah, really does make sense. Just a matter of time before most of Harlem is like the rest of Manhattan. It's too close with too nice a building stock not to be.

[TLOZ Link5]

I'm hoping for an impressive design, as well as that people in the neighborhood will get priority.

I'm all for revitalization, but I still hope that Harlem can be integrated while maintaining its history as a Black neighborhood; it would be a shame if families who have lived there for generations were to be priced out. It would be nice, however, if the boundaries between racially divided neighborhoods citywide could be a bit more blurred, in some cases penetrated in both directions.

[billyblancoNYC]

I'm hoping for an impressive design, as well as that people in the neighborhood will get priority.

I'm all for revitalization, but I still hope that Harlem can be integrated while maintaining its history as a Black neighborhood; it would be a shame if families who have lived there for generations were to be priced out. It would be nice, however, if the boundaries between racially divided neighborhoods citywide could be a bit more blurred, in some cases penetrated in both directions.

Harlem wasn't always a black neighborhood.

[TLOZ Link5]

[quote=TLOZ Link5]

Harlem wasn't always a black neighborhood.

True, but it wasn't always a Dutch farming village, either.

[RedFerrari360f1]

As I recall prior to the Majority African-American inhabitance Harlem was a posch White community during much of the 1800's and early 1900's. Maybe it will return as such and induce its self into a cycle. Who knows.

[Stern]

As I recall prior to the Majority African-American inhabitance Harlem was a posch White community during much of the 1800's and early 1900's. Maybe it will return as such and induce its self into a cycle. Who knows.

Let's hope not. Harlem is reknowned for its Black culture and is currently experiencing a second Renaissance.

[krulltime]

It took a long time but it seems like it will happen finally...


New apartment tower on Central Park North


http://www.cityrealty.com/graphics/uploads/1147119213_cpn111.gif


08-MAY-06

The Athena Group is planning a 18-story residential condominium project at 111 Central Park North on the northwest corner of Lenox Avenue and 110th Street.

The blue-glass-clad building has been designed by Hillier Architecture and will have many balconies, 48 apartments, a 41-car garage with an entrance on 111th Street, and a 4,500-square-foot community facility.

Recently a 11-story residential condominium conversion project with 7 units was completed nearby by Queva J. Lutz and Sara Olsen at 125 Central Park North.

The Athena Group, which is headed by Louis M. Dubin, and its projects have included 838 Fifth Avenue and 32 West 64th Street, both in Manhattan, and The Waverly Condominiums in South Beach, Miami.

The building will have 8,721 square feet of retail space that is expected to be available in the fall of 2007, according to Robert K. Futterman & Associates, which is handling the space.

The tower is setback above a one-story base.



Copyright © 1994-2006 CITY REALTY

[Kris]

www.111centralparknorth.com


http://www.curbed.com/archives/2006_05_111cpn.jpg

http://www.curbed.com/archives/2006/05/11/development_du_jour_111_central_park_north.php

[Drexel]

What is this area like at CPN? Are there alot of restaurants and stores nearby..

[Fabrizio]

Swanky 1960´s Euro luxe looking and not bad at all ....OR.... a missed opportunity to connect CPN with CPW and 5th by doing something "classic"?

Opinions?

[czsz]

What is this area like at CPN? Are there alot of restaurants and stores nearby..

I think there are a few stores across the intersection. Mostly CPN is lower end apartment houses/tenements, streetfront churches, and even contains a jail (!)

[Peakrate212]

I like it.........the area needs some pizaaz and nothing like a little Miami condo boom looking tower to do that....

......now what to do with all those projects up there...will it be like the Amsterdam Houses and now the Chelsea projects...which are like islands disassociated from the neighborhoods around them..?

[ablarc]

......now what to do with all those projects up there...will it be like the Amsterdam Houses and now the Chelsea projects...which are like islands disassociated from the neighborhoods around them..?
Tear 'em down. Replace the lost units in streetfront buildings and blend in at least 50% market condos. Garnish with ground floor shops.

Higher density, better streetscape, mixed community, mixed use.

[lofter1]

Yeah ^^ let's get all the poorer people out of NYC ... drain on the tax base, take up too much room where developers could be making money.

Geez, ablarc, get a grip ...

[ablarc]

Lofter, you didn't read my post. I said "replace all the lost units." That's all subsidized housing. Not one poor person displaced.

Get a grip. ;) Or learn to read. :D

[krulltime]

I agree with ablarc. Those housing projects on parks need to be redevelop all over again in a mix income buildings with with street level interaction.

[lofter1]

Not one poor person displaced.


Oh, so sorry ... I didn't read between the lines to see that you must have come up with that new magic building system whereby you can tear a building down and replace it with a new one overnight, eh?? ;)

What is that lag time between tear down and move in?

3 years?

If you don't call that displacement then please inform me, the unread, about this new Orwellian term that I clearly need to learn.

***

[ablarc]

...please inform me, the unread, about this new Orwellian term that I clearly need to learn.
Oh God, lofter, haven't you ever heard of phasing?

[macreator]

Unfortunately you'll never see Public Housing demolished anytime soon.

Ironically, while they look like shit from the outside, they are actually very well built structures engineering-wise.

That isn't to say I don't wish they weren't demolished. Imagine how much new housing stock we could build on all of the land wasted on those "parks" between public housing buildings. We could remap the streets they destroyed, rebuild the streetwall and make it urban again with retail. The number of apartments you could build would surely be more than are there now. If thousands of units came online all at once, city prices would go down. And at the same time the City could spend the money they make sellings all of the housing land on City services.

More housing stock = lower prices. Ironically the people are are huge proponents of affordable housing don't want new development in their neighborhoods thereby not allowing the City to grow more housing stock.

[Fabrizio]

"More housing stock = lower prices. "

Not true.

[ablarc]

"More housing stock = lower prices. "

Not true.
As stated, it is true, Fabrizio, though it's easy to see why you'd think otherwise.

The iron LAW of Supply and Demand is not suspended for you or anyone. The reason building luxo condos doesn't reduce rents for poor folks is that those are two different markets with no crossover. A glut of Bentleys doesn't reduce the price of Kias. To get the price of moderate rental units down you'd have to build moderate rental units.

That has often required government incentives.

.

[lofter1]

I don't necessarily believe that the addition of new housing stock will cause rents to drop -- maybe level off to some degree, but rents will not drop.

Current vacancy rate in NYC = ~ 3.1%

How much new rental housing would have to built in NYC to get the vacancy rate to the point that would bring about enough competition in the market to cause rents to FALL?

And would those who own /develop rental housing want that situation to come about?

[ablarc]

How much new rental housing would have to built in NYC to get the vacancy rate to the point that would bring about enough competition in the market to cause rents to FALL?
A lot.

And would those who own /develop rental housing want that situation to come about?
Of course not, you can't expect them to, and you can't blame them (they do their charitable giving at church or temple). That's why the government needs to provide incentives. It can bump taxes on condos and reduce them on rental units. If the effect isn't enough to show the desired results, it can be done some more.

[Fabrizio]

The quote is:

"More housing stock = lower prices."

Let´s say we have a lower to middle class neighborhood of small apartment buildings. On 5 empy lots, 40 story deluxe condos are built. The "housing stock" of the neighborhood is suddenly doubled. Compared to before the building of those condos...will the rents and prices of apartments in the neighborhood be up or down?

[antinimby]

More Condos Will Dot Uptown Landscape

By Barbara Jarvie

NEW YORK CITY-A joint venture has won a $206.5-million loan for the construction of a 210,213-sf mixed-used condominium community at the southeast corner of West End Avenue and West 70th Street. The loan will cover all the construction costs minus the equity put in.

Hypo Real Estate Capital Corp. secured the financing. The property is being developed by Clarett Capital LLC, which is a joint venture between the Clarett Group and Prudential Real Estate Investors and with ING/Clarion. The 27-story condominium will include 191 apartment as well as 27,000 sf of retail and a 76-car parking garage. No construction timetable has been announced.

This is the second transaction Hypo and Clarett worked on. In December, the company completed a $138.7-million loan for the construction of a residential tower at 11 East 29th St. Hypo is a subsidiary of Hypo Real Estate Bank International. Over the last five years, the firm has closed more than $22 billion of loans.
In another condo effort, Athena Group will start construction this summer on 111 Central Park North, a 19-story, 47-unit condominium complex. It will be the first high-rise residential building on Central Park North. Hillier Architecture is designing the site.

Peter Schubert, design principal at Hillier Architecture says the “decidedly modern building that marks a new generation in Harlem’s rich and historic past.” The building will offer two- and three-bedroom units as well as two, four-bedroom penthouses. It will have 47 units, including two duplex penthouses, a fitness center, a party room and a public, wrap-around garden terrace with raised viewing platform. There will be underground parking and 9,000 sf of retail space. Athena has completed or is currently developing residential condominium development, redevelopment, and conversion projects with a combined area of about 5.8 million sf and a project cost of $1.5 billion.

http://www.globest.com/news/556_556/newyork/145896-1.html

Copyright © 2006 ALM Properties, Inc.

[ablarc]

The quote is:

"More housing stock = lower prices."
That's already been covered.


A similar straw man:

More food = lower prices.

Let's increase the supply of caviar and see if the price of popcorn comes down.



No, it won't, Fabrizio.

But if you increase the supply of popcorn...

.

[granite61]

The only positive note I see in this design is the balconies and I do appreciate those. It's otherwise just another steel and glass banality in the rich tapestry, increasingly unravelled and defaced by such, of NYC architecture. The generic style says nil about the neighborhood or the people living in it. Not even a nod to the history of the site. The Richard Meier-fication of Harlem.

A modern interpretation of the classic NY-style tenement building in brick or stone with wholly or partly recessed balconies would have been more challenging, marginally more expensive to build but infinitely more appropriate. And interesting. 111 CPN is an insult. Those who think Manhattan's old buildings and native styles should be excised from the city, would do a disservice and are no friends of the city.

This building could be anywhere in the world and would be ordinary and second-rate in Atlantic City. Or Pusan. In Harlem, it's a definate negative.

All in all a disappointment and missed opportunity imo.

[lofter1]

The only positive note I see in this design is the balconies and I do appreciate those.

And what about those snazzy diving boards at the far left -- for easy access into the Harlem Meer??

http://www.curbed.com/archives/2006_05_111cpn.jpg

[granite61]

Maybe they were going for the "urban kitsch" look with the diving boards. Some plastic palms on the roof, a little neon, squint up your eyes real good and why, you think you're in South Beach! Brilliant!

[capoeta cypher]

As I recall prior to the Majority African-American inhabitance Harlem was a posch White community during much of the 1800's and early 1900's. Maybe it will return as such and induce its self into a cycle. Who knows.

I hope not, this neighborhood is classic and in my opinion the greatest neighborhood to be in.

*senses racism*

[ablarc]

*senses racism*
Oh, knock it off.

Tiresome.

[granite61]

It's clear enough that a proper interpretation of RedFerrari's little code here:

"Originally Posted by RedFerrari360f1
As I recall prior to the Majority African-American inhabitance Harlem was a posch White community during much of the 1800's and early 1900's. Maybe it will return as such and induce its self into a cycle. Who knows."

implies that a "Majority African-American inhabitance Harlem" would be more desirable as a "posch(sic) White community." Just taking the poster at his word and I couldn't agree less. "Maybe it will return as such" is clear and unfortunate enough, but what does, "induce its self into a cycle," mean? "Who knows."

I find 'ablarc's,' "Oh, knock it off. Tiresome," in his/her response to you, tiresome, as his/her problem seems to be with calling racism out but not racism itself. Quite shameful.

[Fabrizio]

Granite and Capoeta: the truth is that Harlem is destined to "gentrify". That means expensive condos...up-scale shopping. Whether we like it or not...that means more people with money in Harlem. And that means more white people. Already the demographics for Manhattan are showing a drop in the number of blacks.

So actually taking apart RedFerrari´s comment:

"As I recall prior to the Majority African-American inhabitance Harlem was a posch White community during much of the 1800's and early 1900's."

True

"Maybe it will return as such and induce its self into a cycle. Who knows."

Is happening already.

Is RedFerrari endorsing this? His post doesn´t say so....but it seems that the City and real-estate developers certainly are.

----------------------

As far as the style of this building goes.... I think it´s appropriate. The problem for me is that it looks setback from the street wall... on top of a very low base...not very good. And those "diving boards" are pretty awful. But it´s clean modern style is nicely done and the balconies are handled well. A modern building like this sits nicely among classic brick buildings. Let´s hope the glass isn´t reflective.

Worse would´ve been another orangy brick tower with exposed floor plates lined with tiny "open-drawer"-style balconies. This at least looks stylish and deluxe.

Remember too, that modern-style buildings do line Central Park. 5th Avenue has plenty of them....some more successful than others. The best of the lot is IMO this one at 1045 5th. Good modern architecture that looks fine next to it´s classic-style neighbors. In fact compare this to the proposed building at 111 CPN: although it´s much smaller, there are some similarities in design :

http://www.thecityreview.com/ues/fifave/fif1045.htm

Another view of it next to 1040:

http://www.thecityreview.com/ues/fifave/fif1040.htm

( BTW....note the roof of 1040 ^^^....you can see where Robert Stern got his inspiration for 15CPW.)

Other modern buildings on 5th:

http://www.thecityreview.com/ues/fifave/fif1056.htm

http://www.thecityreview.com/ues/fifave/fif857.htm

[ablarc]

Granite, my problem is with easy virtue and goody-goodyism. I can find plenty of both in any Southern Baptist church. It's an indicator of hypocrisy, and it is yes, tiresome. It's also a drag when conversational flow is diverted into testy and paranoid accusations every time race is brought up. It makes the forum much less fun, and fun is the reason we're all here.

It's despotic that for some, all mention of race is evidence of racism (except paeans). Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

.

[Fabrizio]

*senses racism*

I suspect that the cigar comment has something to do with Cubans.

[capoeta cypher]

How about the Cigars that non-Cubans make?

:)

[Kris]

July 30, 2006
Street Level | Harlem
Paint It White
By JOHN FREEMAN GILL

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2006/07/30/nyregion/thecity/stre190.jpg
Detail from the rendering of the planned condo.

Things were looking bright and shiny and homogeneous on Central Park North and Malcolm X Boulevard on a recent Sunday.

A new 19-story blue-glass condo caught the summer sun, shimmering with wealth and comfort. On the fifth floor, a white man pointed from his gleaming balcony, apparently enjoying his commanding view of Central Park’s undulating meadows. Several other residents, who all also appeared to be white, gazed out serenely from their own balconies. On the sidewalk, a white couple sat beneath a white market umbrella as clean-cut white pedestrians strolled past.

If something seems wrong with this picture, that’s because a picture is all the scene was — a large artist’s rendering, posted at the construction site at 111 Central Park North, where the condo will soon rise.

But the decidedly bleached vision of that corner has not gone unnoticed in the area, which is mostly black and Latino and which has seen less of the striking gentrification that has swept across many other parts of Harlem.

“People stop here and say, ‘Do you see one black face?’ ” said Fatimahta Adegoke, an energetic woman with dreadlocks who was selling African soap nearby.

Ms. Adegoke jabbed a painted fingernail at the condo’s billboard, which advertised apartments of $1.5 million and up. The median family income in the Central Park North area, which is south of 116th Street from Frederick Douglass Boulevard to Fifth Avenue, was $24,000 in 1999.

“If it’s starting at $1.5 million, they’re blatantly saying, ‘We don’t want black folks or people of color around here,’ ” said Ms. Adegoke, who lives in one of two homeless shelters on Central Park North, also known as 110th Street.

Bill Perkins, a former city councilman for the area who is running for State Senate, said that local outrage at the rendering was so great that he had threatened the building’s developer, the Athena Group, with demonstrations if the image was not removed. The controversy was first reported in The Amsterdam News.

“It’s the nightmare, in your face, of what people fear is happening to their community,” Mr. Perkins said. “At the doorway to a historic, world-renowned black community, there’s an all-white message.”

In response, Kenya Smith, the Athena Group’s vice president of development, said that the rendering would be altered to include more people who are clearly African-American. Mr. Smith said the figures in the rendering were merely included for scale.

“It’s not an attempt to keep anybody out,” he said. “We want as inclusive a building as anywhere.”

For some longtime residents, however, the image seemed an all-too-literal representation of their anxieties about gentrification. About six years ago, only about 3 percent of the area’s residents were white, according to Census figures, but real estate brokers and residents say the percentage, including many Europeans, has surged since then.

“They’re moving us out,” said Keith White, a 26-year-old African-American with a glittering stud earring, who was buying a cherry ice from a Mexican vendor beneath the condo site’s scaffolding.

“Now the rent is going to go up more,” added the vendor, Melissa Santos. “So now everyone is going to live in the Bronx.”

Even without such mass displacement, central Harlem’s demographic shift is already transforming the area’s street life. On Central Park North, residents say, the number of men with gray Afros who socialize outside rental buildings has diminished, while No. 217, a mix of rent-stabilized and market-rate apartments, will get a doorman starting this week. Central Park North is now a street of stark contrasts, where black and white professionals carry their dry cleaning past the sealed windows of the Lincoln Correctional Facility, while apartment owners at the Semiramis, a granite-columned prewar condo, complain of the homeless trying to sneak into the building.

The new glass tower will add a luxe element, which some middle-class blacks welcome.

“It’ll clean up the neighborhood a little bit,” said Earl Wint, 47, a baby-faced Jamaican-American film production assistant who was playing dominoes with friends on 111th Street.

Others were less sanguine about any accelerated influx of white residents. “When I see a lot of other white people,” said Jamie Black, a white editor at a Jewish service organization who is a 10-year Harlem resident, “I think, ‘There goes the neighborhood.’ ”

Copyright 2006 The New York Times Company

[lofter1]

You gotta wonder if these marketing dweebs ever get out of their offices ...

[sfenn1117]

“If it’s starting at $1.5 million, they’re blatantly saying, ‘We don’t want black folks or people of color around here,’ ” said Ms. Adegoke, who lives in one of two homeless shelters on Central Park North, also known as 110th Street.

Does anyone else find this statement alarming? I mean, yes, it's no secret that poorer neighborhoods have a high concentration of minorities. It's not racism, it's fact. BUT, how awful is their mindset that just because something is expensive, only whites can afford it? Are they content with being lower class?

(I understand this may be a topic for a different subforum)

[ablarc]

Does anyone else find this statement alarming? I mean, yes, it's no secret that poorer neighborhoods have a high concentration of minorities. It's not racism, it's fact. BUT, how awful is their mindset that just because something is expensive, only whites can afford it? Are they content with being lower class?
You may have uncovered something very insidious here, sfenn1117. Who can disagree; the truth of what you say is plain. Now watch for the denial...and let's prepare for the accusations of you-know-what. Fasten seat belt.

[lofter1]

I think the woman quoted in this article -- who is currently living in a homeless shelter -- might be the first to say that in her experience the people of color with whom she has interraction do not buy a 1.5 Million dollar home.

And when the market-eers put up big color picture ads showing NO blacks living in the building it only reinforces the (possibly misguided but consistently backed-up) belief that NO people of color stand a chance of living there.

The fact is that you and I probably come into more direct contact on a regular basis with wealthy blacks and people of color than does this woman.

IMO the following is a far more insidious remark:

In response, Kenya Smith, the Athena Group’s vice president of development, said that the rendering would be altered to include more people who are clearly African-American. Mr. Smith said the figures in the rendering were merely included for scale.


Oh, I see ... the little drawings of white people were put in just so everyone would know that the windows weren't really just a mere 6 inches tall.

LMFAO

Talk about trying to spin himself out of a hole.

[lofter1]

Are they content with being lower class?

Are you aware that there are 25,000 people in NYC currently living in Homeless Shelters (see below)?

Being "content" with that situation probably has very little if anything to do with the circumstances that pushed them into what can only be a far from satisfactory way to live. Many Americans are reportedly a mere two paychecks away from a similar fate.

How cruel the world must seem when one barely has a penny in their pocket and all around are ads screaming "Buy!!" & "Consume!!!!" ...

SURGE IN HOMELESS

NY_POST (http://www.nypost.com/news/regionalnews/surge_in_homeless_regionalnews_cassi_feldman.htm)
By CASSI FELDMAN

July 30, 2006 -- The number of homeless has soared this summer, leaving the city scrambling for beds, according to the Department of Homeless Services.

As of Wednesday, there were 8,424 families - representing 24,776 individuals - in city shelters, about 5 percent more than last July's figure of 8,046.

While the number of homeless families tends to climb in the summer, when children are out of school and underfoot in crowded apartments, the department acknowledged that this year's spike, which bucks a two-year decline, is unusual.

Angela Allen, a spokeswoman for the agency, noted that the homeless-family population was still down 19 percent from its peak in 2003.

To accommodate the newly homeless families, the department opened 120 new shelter rooms in July, spread over four buildings, at a cost of $66 to $98 per night - a minimum of $237,600 in city funding.

The news comes at an awkward time for Mayor Bloomberg, who gushed about the city's approach to homelessness during a July 17 conference in Washington.

Copyright 2006 NYP Holdings, Inc.

[pianoman11686]

Does anyone else find this statement alarming? I mean, yes, it's no secret that poorer neighborhoods have a high concentration of minorities. It's not racism, it's fact. BUT, how awful is their mindset that just because something is expensive, only whites can afford it? Are they content with being lower class?

(I understand this may be a topic for a different subforum)

I find it alarming too, sfenn. There's no reason to believe that an ethnically diverse group of buyers won't inhabit this building, especially given its location. I remember learning recently of traditionally wealthy African-American enclaves in Queens, where decades ago, the well-off (mainly in the entertainment industry) bought nice houses and lived peacefully, in de facto segregated communities, and continue to do so today. As much as we may believe we've progressed as a society, as far as integration is concerned, we really haven't that much. The changes are clear de jure. We no longer see segregation enforced; rather, we often jump at the chance to dispel any possibility that it still exists at all. I see it at school all the time. Our student body is considered to be from predominantly upper-middle and wealthy families, and it's incredibly diverse, yet somehow, the Asian kids always have dinner together, as do the African-Americans, and the whites.

As a matter of fact, I wouldn't be surprised at all to find out in a few months that this building has a higher proportion of African Americans living there than a similar building on Central Park South, or Park Avenue, and that a kind of niche has been formed for the wealthy in that group. The people living next door may change their minds about the racial makeup of the residents, but they'll still be annoyed as heck that their financial and social status is so out of line, so to speak. I say to hell with them. America, like almost every place in the world, is filled with contradictions. I see mansions a mile away from mobile homes in my suburban area. At the Port Authority, I see deadbeats coming off the buses along with well-off commuters coming in to work. On 5th and Park Avenues, I see bums begging for money while some of the wealthiest businesspeople in the city exit their office buildings and apartments and disappear into black cars. On 96th street, on the Upper East Side, I visually see the residential buildings transition, almost immediately, from doorman to low-income. It's a fact of life, and Central Park North is no different from any of these places.

But what most gets to me is statements like these:

“When I see a lot of other white people,” said Jamie Black, a white editor at a Jewish service organization who is a 10-year Harlem resident, “I think, ‘There goes the neighborhood.’ ”

This makes you no better than all the people who participated in white-flight during the 70's. Get a grip on reality, and realize that there are much worse things that could happen to your neighborhood.

[sfenn1117]

Pianoman- My college has a total of 1,300 students. You can count the number of blacks on both hands. Even still, they all sit at the same table together in the dining hall, but they also share the common bond of being on the basketball team. My uncle lives in Ansonia, CT, and everyone there knows the blacks live on the west side of the river and the whites on the east. I don't understand how it even happens, but it really isn't good to be that homogenous.

Lofter- I don't know if I'm a bad person, but I feel no remorse for the homeless. Maybe it's because I'm the first house on the block from a subway stop and occasionally, about once a week, I'll get homeless people on my stoop, sometimes they are quiet but other times loud and clearly intoxicated, sometimes using the front garden as a toilet. My father and I come out and they know by now to go away because we don't put up with it.

That said, I don't want to stereotype here because there are genuine people who just fall on hard times, but many homeless people are former drug addicts who have put themselves in this position. Others are just lazy and never made an attempt at further education, or even a trade to create a line of work for a self-sustainable livelihood. I'm in favor of homeless shelters to give these people a jump start, some food and clothes, but when people wind up here they need to immediately try to find work and get their life back. The thing that bothers me is when people spend years at a shelter, or return continuously and abuse the system. Remember, even welfare was supposed to be temporary. Since it's still available, I just feel there's no excuse except in rare cases.

[lofter1]

Well let's just hope you never find yourself in a situation -- either due to the economy or health issues -- where your finances crumble.

[sfenn1117]

Do you give money to homeless on the streets?

[krulltime]

You see, we have to differentiate the real homeless with the bumps. Usually, the people you see while you are walking on the streets and they look like they are defenetly on something (either drunk or on drugs or just plain crazy)... then they are the bumps.

I honestly think that they should be discourage by cops from asking for money and maybe taken to a shelter if they are found doing that more often.

The other homeless are people who have had financial problems or their house was destroy and need to recieve some temporary shelter. They don't usually wonder on the street.

In college I had a project with a classmate on documenting the homeless in Center City Philadelphia. We found that about maybe 90% of them were in some sort of addiction and the 10% were really crazy. None of the homeless were families displace out of their homes. Lots of them did have a home but like to just wondered on the street to ask for money. The ones that did not have a home said that either they sleep on a shelter or on the streets but similar replies were the fact that been on the streets, they felt free to walk where they want and that they get money to used on drugs and alcohol. Most will not use the money to buy food. Most said they get free meals from shelters and people anyway.

Again this is just based on the project we did. There is no common ground in our findings.

Either case, I do give an annual charity to homeless shelters and I also work with a church and give out sandwiches to homeless people on sundays. I rarely give money. I usually give money to 'artists' on the street.

[BrooklynRider]

Homelessness is a societal problem, not a problem of the individual. If anyone ever ventured to do some volunteer work or research into the causes of substance abuse, you would see it is often a symptom of greater trauma in a person's life that went untreated. Rather than dump on people less fortunate or attempt to categorize them by unsubstantiated instincts and reasoning ignorantly ascribed to to them, wouldn't it be more honest and a lot nicer to simply be appreciative that you are not homeless or a drug addict?

[ablarc]

No one is responsible for his condition in life. It's always others or the universe.

[lofter1]

Do you give money to homeless on the streets?

Never to the guys with the big water tanks hawking for "Donations" (which is really a ruse to benefit them individually).

Once in a great while to an individual if the moment strikes me.

Yearly or more to certain shelters / outreach organizations.

And then there's all those taxes the the G-Men take out of my checks ...

[BrooklynRider]

No one is responsible for his condition in life. It's always others or the universe.

I didn't say that people were not responsible for their condition, but it is more compassionate to be curious about the condition of others than judgemental. The great majority of people who lead what one mighht consider a "problem life" come from troubled backgrounds and horrendous childhood experiences. If you want to explore the issue at all, you will find it absolutely true. I do work with drug addicts on a volunteer basis and there's not one I've met yet where, once I hear their story, I don't think, "I understand why you turned to drugs."

And, if you are in NYC the weekend of October 8, 9, 10, I can arrange for you to volunteer at a workshop and experience some of these stories and see the realities of drug addiction and the root causes.

[scatman]

This thread has enhanced my potential graduate thesis.......Black Flight!

I have observed a bunch of African-Americans (many who originally migrated from the South in the 50s and 60s) leave the City of New York, and have gone "back Down South", for nicer, cheper houses and bigger land. All of my remaining aunts and uncles, except one, have "retired back home to N. Carolina". I have a feeling my mother, at the completion of her coop payments (in the next year or so), is outta here!!!!! And to think that Mom didn't want to be "reminded of them tobacco fields."

I'm right now thinking of historical factors playing a role in re-migration over the last 15 years.......

1) Redlining, by banks, back in the day

2) Crime

3) Guliani's "war on color!"

and now.....

4) Cost of living.....more like cost of housing!

Let's be real.....111 CPN is discouraging to a lot of people. So is a $440K two-bed condo in Bushwick, a neighborhood once left for dead! Trust me, I'm all for development, and doing my best to own something in this city, but if persons of color are not afforded opportunities to get a piece of the pie, they will go elsewhere!

And speaking of CPN, a friend of mine is in a condo in the CPN area (right across from the park). He bought it in 1978, at, hold your breath....$167K! 3 beds, two baths! He is the last African-American in the building!!!!!!! A realtor recently offered him $1.4M. To be honest, that's too damn low. However, in the context of re-migration, how much can $1.4 get you in the Carolinas.........????????? And how much cash may still be pocketed.....??????

[Drexel]

what is your view on this building.. is this building a good investment...good design, and good neighborhood to invest in? just thinking about purchasing in this building and would like to hear some comments on 111 CPN..

[pianoman11686]

New York Post Online Edition (http://www.nypost.com/realestate/down_she_goes_realestate_braden_keil.htm)

Gimme Shelter

By Braden Keil

Harlem hottie

Gentrification is hitting the fast track in Harlem, with word that a duplex penthouse apartment to be built on Central Park North (aka 110th Street) is about to sell for more than $12 million. The buyer is said to be a tycoon from Australia.

Should the sale close in the building known as 111 Central Park North, it will be more than three times the neighborhood's current record price of $3.89 million for a single-family home.

Two duplex penthouses in the 20-story building are being combined into a sprawling 7,000-square-foot mansion with 2,000 square feet of terraces. The park-fronting building will comprise 47 condo units and is expected to be completed in late 2007.

Another sale at 111 CPN, which brokers say has sold approximately a quarter of its units since opening its sales office after Labor Day, involves an entire 5,500-square-foot floor fetching more than $6 million. The Athena Group developers had no comment on the pending sales.

Copyright 2006 NYP Holdings, Inc.

[bigkdc]

^^^^$12MM!!! thats incredible! i guess if a similar apt is worth $30-40MM on CPW, 5th ave or CPS, I guess $12MM isnt that bad.

[pianoman11686]

Here's the floorplan for the building, courtesy of Curbed (http://www.curbed.com/):

http://www.curbed.com/2006_09_111cpn.jpg

Former Development Du Jour 111 Central Park North is back in the news today with Braden Keil's report that an unnamed buyer (a "tycoon from Australia," huzzah!) is dropping $12 million on a duplex penthouse in the building. Near as we can tell from spending some more time at the 111 CPN website—perhaps the worst-designed new development website we've ever seen, in terms of how many clicks it takes just to get to any kind of nuts-and-bolts information—the buyer is combining two units into one by merging the front unit (which has the most Central Park frontage) with a side unit (which has only one room facing the park. Which makes sense. If, you know, you've got $12 million lying around. The price is, of course, a new record for Harlem.

Sales at 111 CPN are going okay—the place is about 25% sold since opening its sales office earlier this month, Keil reports. One entire 5,5000 square foot floor sold for over $6 million.

[infoshare]

what is your view on this building.. just thinking about purchasing in this building and would like to hear some comments on 111 CPN..

My comment: this building has one of the best websites (http://www.111centralparknorth.com/) I have ever seen !:cool:

[lofter1]

Nice ^^^

Now if only they'd get rid of that fugly Mt. Sinai Hospital black box on the east side of CP (which, considering its location, just could be the worst building in NYC) things would look great from those upper floors.

[Peakrate212]

This thread has enhanced my potential graduate thesis.......Black Flight!

I have observed a bunch of African-Americans (many who originally migrated from the South in the 50s and 60s) leave the City of New York, and have gone "back Down South", for nicer, cheper houses and bigger land. All of my remaining aunts and uncles, except one, have "retired back home to N. Carolina". I have a feeling my mother, at the completion of her coop payments (in the next year or so), is outta here!!!!! And to think that Mom didn't want to be "reminded of them tobacco fields."

I'm right now thinking of historical factors playing a role in re-migration over the last 15 years.......

1) Redlining, by banks, back in the day

2) Crime

3) Guliani's "war on color!"

and now.....

4) Cost of living.....more like cost of housing!

Let's be real.....111 CPN is discouraging to a lot of people. So is a $440K two-bed condo in Bushwick, a neighborhood once left for dead! Trust me, I'm all for development, and doing my best to own something in this city, but if persons of color are not afforded opportunities to get a piece of the pie, they will go elsewhere!

And speaking of CPN, a friend of mine is in a condo in the CPN area (right across from the park). He bought it in 1978, at, hold your breath....$167K! 3 beds, two baths! He is the last African-American in the building!!!!!!! A realtor recently offered him $1.4M. To be honest, that's too damn low. However, in the context of re-migration, how much can $1.4 get you in the Carolinas.........????????? And how much cash may still be pocketed.....??????

I don't agree with you at All on the Gulliani comment above. It was a war on crime and WE ALL BENEFITED..

On another note, I am happy to hear your friend bought, back in the day. It goes to show you the power of Ownership.. and if only more AAs bought in Harlem (or anywhere), they would be benefiting now as well.

[infoshare]

I am wondering where this site is exactly: time to post an aerial view on this one - stay tuned!:D

[lofter1]

Here you go: Google MAP (http://www.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&q=111+central+park+north,+new+york,+ny&ie=UTF8&z=18&ll=40.798225,-73.952381&spn=0.001746,0.005316&t=h&om=1)

***

[Peakrate212]

Never to the guys with the big water tanks hawking for "Donations" (which is really a ruse to benefit them individually).



How does this fake group - United Homeless Organization - get away with being permanantly planted on the major intersections screaming "Only One Penny will help us....."

again, only in New York......liberal capital

[Peakrate212]

This thread has enhanced my potential graduate thesis.......Black Flight!



I'm right now thinking of historical factors playing a role in re-migration over the last 15 years.......

1) Redlining, by banks, back in the day

2) Crime

3) Guliani's "war on color!"

and now.....

4) Cost of living.....more like cost of housing!

However, in the context of re-migration, how much can $1.4 get you in the Carolinas.........????????? And how much cash may still be pocketed.....??????

Why not look at it from another view:

1. The South is now a more hospitable place for Blacks to live. Metro Atlanta has a huge growing Black middle and upper middle class. Many former New Orleans residents have moved there and are in shock with the opportunities there for them.

2. White New Yorkers have been retiring to the South for decades. No is claiming they got pushed out. (have you been to Florida?) It is simply an easier, affordable life with better weather.

3. for $1.4 MM you can buy a MANSION in the Carolinas!

[antinimby]

Yeah, it may be more affordable and the weather is milder during the winters (beware of the oppressive summers, though) but New York has things to offer that they don't or can't come close.

Like they say, "you get what you paid for."

[ablarc]

Yeah, it may be more affordable and the weather is milder during the winters (beware of the oppressive summers, though) but New York has things to offer that they don't or can't come close.

Like they say, "you get what you paid for."
That's about the gist of it.

[pianoman11686]

With the exception of those occasional 70-degree days during the winter, I think Carolina weather is just as bad, if not worse, than New York weather.

Housing is dirt cheap, though. Think 3-bedroom McMansion in the low 200,000s.

[ablarc]

With the exception of those occasional 70-degree days during the winter, I think Carolina weather is just as bad, if not worse, than New York weather.
Wouldn't know; I'm never out in it. Always in some climate-controlled pod or another. In a place like the Carolinas, weather has no meaning since you never walk anywhere; most folks don't even own an overcoat, and many houses come without a coat closet. I've never been in a place where people spend so little time outdoors.

The folks who live here get offended if you point this out; they think of themselves as rugged outdoorsmen.

[antinimby]

ablarc, where are from originally?

[pianoman11686]

I think that's a fairly accurate assessment, ablarc. But it probably extends to a lot of other places, especially the younger cities of the Sunbelt. Everything is so incredibly dependent on the car that there's no need to walk (at least, not outside). That's why I like New York so much; you can walk to get almost anywhere. Over the summer, I had a job in Midtown East. I took a bus in from Jersey every day, and always took the 25-30 minute walk from the Port Authority, both ways. Only a couple thunderstorms forced me to take the subway over the course of 14 weeks. At the same time, one of my friends got a similar job in downtown Atlanta. He spent his summer driving from his suburb in two hour-long traffic jams, and paying heavily for gas. But at least he got to pull in to the building's garage, and avoid the weather. :rolleyes:

[pianoman11686]

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/138/380638592_fccb1044a6.jpg

Stu_Jo's photstream (http://www.flickr.com/photos/15937237@N00/)

[lofter1]

Can't see the surfboard balconies on that ^^^

Are the tree branches in the way? Or do they go on later???

[pianoman11686]

ACROSS 110TH

CENTRAL PARK NORTH IS BREAKING REAL-ESTATE RECORDS

By MAX GROSS

June 14, 2007 -- A year and a half ago, New York magazine asked real-estate appraiser Jonathan Miller to estimate what Central Park was worth.

The figure Miller came up with - more than $528 billion - seemed astronomical. Yet, considering how much New Yorkers spend to live along its edges, it makes sense. Real estate on the south, east and west borders of the park has always been expensive, and lately has hit new heights with buildings such as 110 Central Park South and especially 15 Central Park West. But oddly, the northern border has largely been ignored.

It's only been recently that Central Park North, aka 110th Street - the Harlem corridor that Bobby Womack immortalized - has entered Manhattan's real-estate frenzy.

"I'm surprised it's taken so long for Central Park North to come into its own," says Janu Sivanesan, who bought a three-bedroom, three-bath condo at the new 111 Central Park North condo building with her husband, Steve Zaloudek, and two daughters. "It is the absolute best view."

"The north side of the park is still very much a neighborhood," says Nancy Fire Breslau, a designer, who, with husband Neil and their two children, purchased a four-bedroom, four-bath, 2,800-square-foot duplex at 111 CPN. "It's pretty much untouched. It's like a neighborhood in progress."

Indeed, this might be the last chance to get in on Central Park North before developers truly take over and prices go the way of the park's other borders. But, to a certain extent, it's already getting there. In the fall of 2005, the modest 17-unit building, 125 Central Park North, went condo and broke a Harlem record when it sold units at $850 per square foot. That record was almost doubled earlier this year when 111 Central Park North got $1,620 per square foot for the penthouse. (The building, which will be finished in the fall, has already done more than $70 million in sales - at an average price of around $1,300 per square foot.)

And perhaps the sweetest plum has yet to be picked: The Museum for African Art, which is being designed by Robert A.M. Stern, the architect of 15 CPW, is expected to break ground this June. In addition to museum space, the project's plans call for a massive residential component of roughly 115 condo units for a total of 160,000 square feet of space.

"What's exciting about Central Park North and the developments going on there is that it's going to raise the image of Harlem to those who are outside," says Joe Holland, president of Uptown Developers, whose own condo, Fifth on the Park (10 blocks north of CPN), is rising. Prices will undoubtedly drift north (in both senses of the word), where most of the real estate is still less than $1,000 per square foot.

For people who have followed the history of Harlem, this shouldn't come as a huge surprise. The buildings along Central Park North were once the most celebrated in the city.

"These buildings were where the Jews would move to when they made their money downtown," says Jeffrey S. Gurock, a professor of Jewish-American history at Yeshiva University and the author of "When Harlem Was Jewish: 1870-1930."

"These were elevator apartments overlooking the park. It had a reputation as one of the classiest neighborhoods in the city. That's where people who did good went - they were called the 'allrightniks.'"

Though Central Park North was one of the more posh addresses in Harlem, the street lagged behind other parts of the neighborhood when gentrification hit. One reason is that Central Park North doesn't have the stock of brownstones that have been so sought after; instead, it consists of big apartment buildings. Most of these apartment buildings are rent-stabilized, or Mitchell-Lama buildings, which never make for an easy conversion.

But in 2005, Central Park North got its first taste of the semi-luxury condo market when 125 Central Park North opened.

"Everyone said [developer Queva Lutz] was crazy for paying the price she did," says Stephen Kliegerman, executive director of development marketing at Halstead Property.

He estimates that Lutz (who died recently) spent between $10 million and $12 million on the project, taking an old building and adding floors to it. "They went on the market in September, and sold the building out in a month."

Apartments there have been resold at 25 to 50 percent more than their original price, according to Kliegerman.

The Athena Group, which is developing 111 CPN, followed 125 CPN's lead.

"We bought the property around four years ago," says Louis Dubin, president of the Athena Group. Dubin and his brother, Harry, saw that the neighborhood consisted of mostly low- to mid-rise buildings and decided that something big - 17 stories - would allows for views of the park that are as spectacular as they come.

"What word can you think of for such a view?" says Harry, stepping out onto the terrace of 111 CPN's still unfinished penthouse (which has been chosen by Esquire magazine as its next "Ultimate Bachelor Pad.") The view - overlooking the Harlem Meer - is certainly impressive.

Certainly, West 110th Street has its problems. The Micthell-Lama buildings could certainly use a face-lift. And The Lincoln Correctional Facility, a halfway house for women, still has a prime place overlooking the park. (It's the building with the screen windows, the security cameras and searchlights. "That's a pretty nice prison to get a view of Central Park!" remarks Matthew Ragas, 27, an actor who recently moved to Harlem.) But there have been rumors swirling that the Central Park Conservancy is considering making a bid on it. (When NYP Home called the Conservancy, they politely declined to comment.)

"I think over time you'll see the conversion of these buildings," says Kliegerman. "It won't happen right away, but eventually."

"It'll be fun to watch," says George Hirsch, another buyer at 111 CPN, who literally ran into the project during one of his jogs through Central Park. He and his wife, Shay, bought a three-bedroom for $2.7 million and are selling the Murray Hill townhouse that they have owned for more than 30 years.

Hirsch, the founder of the New York City Marathon, has also found the best reason to settle on Central Park North. "Central Park," he says, "is my country club!"

Copyright 2007 NYP Holdings, Inc. (http://www.nypost.com/seven/06142007/realestate/across_110th_realestate_max_gross.htm?page=3)

[antinimby]

http://img265.imageshack.us/img265/8286/img0052my0.th.jpg (http://img265.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img0052my0.jpg) http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/9166/img0053xy0.th.jpg (http://img208.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img0053xy0.jpg)

[czsz]

Wow, it reminds me a lot of Harvard's Peabody Terrace:

http://libraries.mit.edu/rvc/kidder/kjpegs/C2022-084.jpg

http://libraries.mit.edu/rvc/kidder/kjpegs/C2022-087.jpg

[sfenn1117]

^I love hardcore brutalism like that. This building looks great too....basically just like the rendering.

[Skylimitone]

Here's an update from 11.10.2007

https://community.emporis.com/images/6/2007/11/570850.jpg

https://community.emporis.com/images/6/2007/11/570848.jpg

https://community.emporis.com/images/6/2007/11/570854.jpg

Wish they had chosen a design that fits a lil better with its classic neighbors.

[alonzo-ny]

Hey a condo done well for once!

[Fabrizio]

It does look nice, confident. Sort of Euro looking. Not crazy about those
strange balconies on the far side. Nice glass... not mirrored.

[alonzo-ny]

I kinda like them actually, they create an interesting element in some manner.

[Fabrizio]

Yes, maybe so.

[alonzo-ny]

Kind of gives a dynamic motion like the balconies have swung out on a hinge from the original position along the facade.

[pianoman11686]

The Phil Collins Effect Felt on ‘Central Park North’

Better known for a century as 110th Street, the once-dowdy loser on the Central Park quadrangle is now selling high

by Tom Acitelli
Published: November 20, 2007

http://www.nyobserver.com/files/imagecache/article/files/lab_chart_11.jpg

On the evening of Nov. 15, the developer Louis Dubin stood before a crowd in one of the two penthouses at 111 Central Park North, just west of Malcolm X Boulevard, and rattled off numbers about the new 19-story, 47-unit condo tower.

“We have nearly $90 million in sales here,” he said to applause. “Eighty percent of the building is sold. About half of the building is closed. We have record prices for this part of town for two-, three- and four-bedrooms and penthouses. And, in this penthouse, I’m happy to tell everybody because we have a real estate crowd here tonight—$2,134 a foot for those of you that keep asking me what did you really build.”

That per-square-foot sales price is about $900 more than that of the average Manhattan condo, according to appraisal firm Miller Samuel. Mr. Dubin’s tower—resplendent as it is in the requisite amenities of luxury housing here—owes its success more than anything to three words: Central Park North.

The words refer to that stretch between Fifth Avenue and Central Park West much better known as 110th Street. It’s a leafier cousin to Central Park South, which is bona fide real estate gold, where apartments average at least $1,400 a square foot, more than twice the sales rate along Central Park North. (These are based on per-square-foot numbers for Harlem and for East 59th Street from Miller Samuel, a division of Rader Logic Inc.)

Enough of that; midtown’s always been more expensive to buy in than Harlem. And, besides, it wasn’t 111 CPN that signaled titanic changes on the park’s northern edge.

It was Phil Collins.

In 2006, the 1980’s pop arbiter bought a condo at 455 Central Park West, about a 10-minute walk from 111 CPN; he spent over $3.85 million for 2,876 square feet, according to PropertyShark.com.

That the 26-story tower at 105th Street, site of a onetime hospital, could lure the relatively large notoriety of Mr. Collins north of 96th Street, the traditional borderline between chic CPW and merely CPW, spoke volumes for Central Park’s northern edges. (Mr. Collins did not return a voice mail for comment.) And he’s not the only quasi-celebrity to buy at 455 CPW: Hyatt heiress Liesel Pritzker spent $6.2 million for a 4,146-square-foot condo there over the summer.

In May of this year, New York magazine founding publisher George Hirsch talked to The Observer about the 1,955-square-foot condo he bought in 111 CPN for $2.7 million. He sounded a familiar tune to those New Yorkers tracking gentrification.

“We’re going to watch this neighborhood improve and become a more interesting place,” Mr. Hirsch said. “On the one hand, we’re buying into what’s got to be, at this stage, the most expensive condo in Harlem. And, at the same time, to be right on Central Park and to have these sweeping views—think of what you’d be paying for the same three-bedroom … if you were on Central Park West.”

At the launch party at 111 Central Park North last week, revelers mingled amid muted flat-screens showing Woody Allen’s Manhattan and then the Audrey Hepburn classic Breakfast at Tiffany’s, while songs like Van Halen’s “Jump” and Aretha Franklin’s “Chain of Fools” purred from largely unseen speakers; three miles of cable, Internet and stereo lines ran hidden beneath the penthouse’s white and green walls. Mr. Dubin’s guests sipped aged scotch, Manhattans, martinis and fine wines—only one brand of beer was offered—and some smoked cigars on the ample terraces of the penthouse.

“They’re all coming up here,” said Steven, a young man in a sharp suit and perfect short hair who identified himself as “in construction.”

Next to him stood Steve, an attorney from New Orleans with long shaggy hair who talked about his work with “maybe one developer up here.”

From up here, 455 Central Park West was visible, and so too, further south, the newer Fifteen Central Park West. Completed this year and developed by Arthur and William Lie Zeckendorf, Fifteen set an American residential building sales record—nearly $2 billion paid by the likes of Denzel Washington and Sting.

It’s a far heftier number than the $90 million in sales at 111 CPN touted by Mr. Dubin and his firm the Athena Group; and the names are more well known. But Fifteen’s neighborhood of Columbus Circle was largely devoid of any desirable housing barely 10 years ago, a scruffier southern appendage to the far nicer Central Park West.

“Early on, about half of the first 70 contracts we issued fell through,” William Zeckendorf told The Observer earlier this year. The buyers, he said, had decided Fifteen’s condos were too expensive. His brother Arthur laughed out loud: “They’re kicking themselves now!”

One wonders if in a short while Mr. Dubin might be saying the same about 111—say it now—Central Park North.

Copyright 2007 The New York Observer. (http://www.nyobserver.com/2007/phil-collins-effect-felt-central-park-north)

[krulltime]

I like this one. Something fresh for Harlem.


December 6, 2007:

http://www.pbase.com/image/89983227.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/image/89983228.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/image/89983229.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/image/89983230.jpg

[ablarc]

^ They gotta finish the exposed wall on the neighboring building.

[Derek2k3]

NY Post

Harlem heights

by Braden Keil

December 13, 2007

http://www.nypost.com/seven/12132007/realestate/later__slater_815978.htm?page=2

A new record closing price for a Harlem residence was recorded Wednesday for $6.6 million.

Sources say real-estate investor Rodney Propp and his wife, Eleanor, are leaving their Park Avenue apartment for a Central Park-fronting, 5,500-square-foot condo at the just-completed 111 Central Park North.

But the society couple's record price should be eclipsed soon, because the building's three-level, multi-terraced penthouse - which served as the celebrity-centric Esquire "Ultimate Bachelor Pad" - is in contract for $8.5 million. Propp's new condo, a full-floor unit with views to Midtown, includes six bedrooms and 6½ baths.

The sale was a direct deal through the Athena Group, the building's developers, who did not comment.

[Sheff1]

Anyone know what's planned for the base of 111 CPN? It's still empty, but there seems to be work going on inside.

I like the building, but the sculpture's weird and unfitting imo.

[Edward]

See sales prices and floor plans for 111 Central Park North (http://condos.wirednewyork.com/search/buildingdetails.aspx?bid=4878) in our Condo section.

[NYC4Life]

NY Observer

Whatever Happened To 'Central Park North?'

by Leigh Kamping-Carder (http://www.observer.com/2008/author/leigh-kamping-carder) | 7:55 AM December 1, 2008

http://www.observer.com/files/imagecache/article/files/cpn.jpg
Leigh Kamping-Carder.
The view from #7A in 111 Central Park North.


It's been three years since the Athena Group purchased the lot at 111 Central Park North, occupied then by a low-slung brick building that housed a hair salon and a parking lot.

In the ensuing years, the development company built a glossy condominium tower, outfitting its 88 units with marble countertops, Viking ranges and dramatic views of the Manhattan skyline and Central Park. Jill Sloane, an executive vice president at Halstead Property (http://www.halstead.com/), broke a Harlem sales record when she helped sell a 4,000-square-foot penthouse for $8 million. And brokers, marketers, journalists, buyers and Harlem residents tested out a new label along the way: Central Park North.

But all that seems long ago.

"My business basically changed overnight," said Ms. Sloane, explaining that she had had the best year of her career, until the collapse of Lehman Brothers in September.

And what of the progress of that strip of park-front property along 110th Street, once destined to be a hot new address? The rampant development some envisioned will likely take a lot longer – if it ever happens. For better or worse, 111 Central Park North may be, literally, one of a kind.

"Nobody's dying to get there," said Charlie Lewis, a senior vice president at Warburg Realty (http://www.warburgrealty.com/), who specializes in Harlem deals. "When it comes down to it, there's no market because it's almost like a little nondescript area. It's just a great place to be for park views, but there's no neighborhood."

The boundary of Central Park North is tricky to draw. People who have lived in the area for decades still call it West 110th Street. Some say 110th Street North or divide the thoroughfare down the middle, dubbing the northern side 110th Street and the southern side Central Park North.

Street signs display both names.

"For me it's easier to say, when answering the phone, to say 'Good morning, 125 Central Park North,' instead of saying '125 West 110th Street,'" said Henry Banks, a doorman and concierge at the building. He added that mail comes to both addresses but that most tenants use Central Park North when ordering deliveries. "It's easier, more convenient."

Most observers would sketch the neighborhood's borders between Frederick Douglass Boulevard and Fifth Avenue. But if the peripheries are nebulous, the center is certain: 111 Central Park North, which towers almost twice as high as the other buildings around Lenox Avenue.

Units in 111 CPN went on sale in December 2006, and most sold between October 2007 and July 2008. ("The two-bedroom flew off the market," said Ms. Sloane.) Several three-bedrooms are still for sale, with asking prices in the neighborhood of $2 million.

"Certainly, less desirable neighborhoods are going to get hit harder," Ms. Sloane said of the downturn, "but I think with that kind of view it will come back pretty quick."

BUT WILL 111 CENTRAL Park North have any plush neighbors?

At this point, there are few lots in the area available for redevelopment.

The 9,000-square-foot ground-floor retail space at 111 Central Park North – steps from the 2 and 3 trains, with ample sidewalk space facing the park – remains vacant. The other buildings on the street are mostly co-ops, with a church at 145 West 110th Street. Some have already been refurbished; others are public housing. Sales at one building, at 137 West 110th Street, date back to 1988, according to PropertyShark.

"There's nothing you can do," Mr. Lewis said. "There's no land. Unless the developer offers an astronomical amount of money to come in and make those things over." Mr. Lewis believes that changes in the market will not affect the area, simply because there's no market there to be changed.

Gary Davis, a partner at Browne Fino Davis (http://www.bfdrealestate.com/) and formerly the Athena Group's executive director of development, confirmed that 111 CPN was "an unusual site," since it used to be retail, in contrast to the rest of the street, which is mostly residential.

The Observer ran into Mr. Davis on his way home; he lives on the building's seventh floor. ("I found this deal and put it together," he said. "I've been pretty close with it for a long time.") As far as he is concerned, the strip is different than the rest of Harlem: the proximity to Central Park, the street furniture, and the symmetry of the Park's bordering streets all differentiate West 110th Street. But Mr. Davis believes that change will come gradually.

"The only building that might be in play is the triangular one back here," he said, referring to a retail building on 21 Lenox Avenue, which he said some local developers are interested in tackling.

"This would be the one that should go." He pointed to the Park View Hotel, a single-room occupancy hotel at 55 West 110th Street. "That's a great site. That could have a significant building on it."

"But that's not going to happen for a while," Mr. Davis continued. "No, nothing's going to happen. For three or four or maybe five years, it's going to take, it could take that long. To the point where people can build buildings again and it makes sense."

Mr. Lewis, the Warburg broker, calls 111 CPN a "magnificently well-designed building," and believes its value will hold through the downturn. But he sees it as a destination for buyers priced out of Central Park West – in other words, a one-off.

"It's like this: there's always a right price for someone to take an offer and buy something and create whatever they want to create," he said. "And if we were still in a boom time, maybe a developer would have come north and asked those co-op owners in those co-op buildings, 'Hey I've got a great price, would you buy out, would you sell?' Maybe."


DEVELOPERS HAVE REMADE NEIGHBORHOODS, of course. (Dumbo comes to mind.) But in today's market, who has that kind of cash flow? Who wants to take that kind of risk? And, more importantly, who could get the credit to do it?

So far, the only other condominium building in the area is 125 Central Park North, where Ms. Sloane purchased an investment property in 2005. Two units are up for resale, according to PropertyShark (http://propertyshark.com/mason/), including a penthouse apartment, which sold for $1.675 million in September 2006 and has been listed at $1.8 million since Aug. 1. Another owner is asking $1.345 million for a two-bedroom he bought in August 2006 for $1.15 million.

"If somebody bought in the last year or two," said Ms. Sloane of 111 CPN, "I would say you need to wait to sell because you're not going to be selling at what you paid for. That's for sure."

"It'll slow down turnover up here, as will most other places," said Mr. Davis, of Browne Fino Davis. "You'll probably see a little more depreciation of value here than you would in other, more prime locations."

At present, apartment prices in northern Manhattan are roughly steady, according to data compiled by Halstead. Average prices on condominiums rose from $637 per square foot in the third quarter of 2008 to $650 in the same period last year, but prices at 111 CPN skew the data much like 15 Central Park West does for the Upper West Side. Inventory in Northern Manhattan increased by 13 percent between the third quarters of 2007 and 2008.

The area has seen widespread change, which has earned mixed reviews from locals. While most residents welcome the drop in crime rates, others worry that owners are letting buildings decay to kick out longtime tenants and facilitate rent hikes.

"Where I'm living in, it's kind of bad," said Qiana Nicolau, a fresh-faced cosmetology student who moved to the Park View Hotel a month or two ago. "But outside it's not as bad. Because it seems more safer outside than it actually is inside."

"If you can still see the park, it looks good over here," said Henry Francis, a porter who used to live in the area but now lives in the Bronx. "But you come on this side [farther north], and you still have the drugs, the common criminals, the criminal activities, troublemakers in the neighborhood."

Mr. Francis felt that the real estate downturn would not really affect the area: "We've always been broke," he said. Other residents echoed Mr. Francis' opinion, or wondered why developers had built condos and not housing for the homeless. Some pointed out that the designation "Central Park North" is nothing new.

"That's not a new neighborhood," said one stay-at-home mother, who declined to give her name. She has been living in the area for all of her 37 years, and was pushing her newborn in a stroller on a recent mild afternoon. "That's been the name for years."

"I believe that the area has undergone and will continue to undergo renovation, building, maybe not at the same pace as before," said Allan Aciman, a senior vice president at Bellmarc Realty (http://bellmarc.com/home.asp), who lives nearby at the Towers on the Park. "But this is an area that has already been completely renovated and rebuilt to a great extent already."

"To be honest with you," he added, "I've been calling it Central Park North for the last 20 years. So it's tough for me to call it anything else."



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