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kmistic
October 26th, 2004, 08:45 AM
I was in nyc for the first time in a few years a couple weeks ago. One thing i noticed was a lot of starbucks in manhattan. Its crazy! At some places i could see two starbucks at the same time! How long was it like this? Was it always like that and i didn't notice before? last time i was there was Feb 01.

Gulcrapek
October 26th, 2004, 02:04 PM
It's the same with Duane Reade. They're trying to be literally everywhere.

Jhoana
November 28th, 2005, 03:39 PM
I hate Starbucks (http://gohate.com/_view/part_directory/section_S/id_10)

Ninjahedge
November 29th, 2005, 09:03 AM
I hope they over-invest and drag themselves down. the both of them.

Similar things happened with Beers and Microbreweries. There was a whole host of MB's all around. Unfortunately, most that were sucessful were bought by the big guns and either ceased to be, or became a mass-manufactured imitation of what they once were.

But they have started popping back up again recently. I hope the same happens with small coffeehouses and other drug stores.

Fabrizio
November 29th, 2005, 03:37 PM
I visited a Starbucks once in my life in Philadelphia on Market Street. It was a beautiful day outside but the place was dark and closed-in with the airconditioning blasting. I do not drink out of paper cups....I guess I would if it were part of a relief effort....but I don´t see how anyone can actually enjoy coffee out of a paper cup. It would be like drinking wine with a straw. It´s just not done. And at those prices! I asked for a real cup which fortunately they did provide. Whether sitting down of standing up, coffee must be served not handed over. I wanted a splash of milk and they pointed me to a "milk station". I felt like a dope.

Ninjahedge
November 29th, 2005, 05:03 PM
I visited a Starbucks once in my life in Philadelphia on Market Street. It was a beautiful day outside but the place was dark and closed-in with the airconditioning blasting. I do not drink out of paper cups....I guess I would if it were part of a relief effort....but I don´t see how anyone can actually enjoy coffee out of a paper cup. It would be like drinking wine with a straw. It´s just not done. And at those prices! I asked for a real cup which fortunately they did provide. Whether sitting down of standing up, coffee must be served not handed over. I wanted a splash of milk and they pointed me to a "milk station". I felt like a dope.

It is a battle between service and expedience.

Some people want to run to work with their caffe-latte in their hand and do not want to waste time waiting for a waitress to come over and serve them.

At the same time, it is nice to be served something that you pay that much for. If I wanted a "milk station" I would go to Dunkin Donuts and spend 1/3 the cash. Although that is changing now too......


I don't know...... :(

Fabrizio
November 29th, 2005, 05:35 PM
I drink coffee at my choice of maybe 25 coffee bars in the center of my town. You go in. There is the usual long marble bar. You stand at the bar. You ask for your coffee The professional barman in the barman suit with bow-tie works the machine. (actually I don´t even ask....the guy sees me crossing the piazza at 9 and gets mine going before I´ve even set foot). In about 3 minutes he places your coffee before you...together with the sugar and a silver milk thing. I have a cafe "americano"...espresso in a big cup with hot water on the side. You drink your coffee at the bar...elbow to elbow with the others. You mention the rain and something about what a rotten day it´s going to be (or how hot it is and what a rotten day it´s going to be...depending on the season). You´re in and out in about 10 minutes. Or you can sit and read your choice of the leftist dailies and stay for hours if you want to.

80 cents Euro....about 1 Dollar.

Schadenfrau
November 29th, 2005, 09:57 PM
That's certainly uncommon here, Fabrizio. Most of my out-of-town friends have commented about NYC's lack of a cafe culture. It's really all about the bars, instead.

ablarc
November 29th, 2005, 10:44 PM
Coffee and spaghetti sauce: two commodities in America with similar histories. Both were elevated from terrible to mediocre by enterprising entrepreneurs. Starbucks and Newman: raising the bar to the new [sub]standard.

stache
November 30th, 2005, 03:41 AM
[QUOTE=Schadenfrau]That's certainly uncommon here, Fabrizio. Most of my out-of-town friends have commented about NYC's lack of a cafe culture. It's really all about the bars, instead.[/QUOTE

Very good point. I was once served a latte in a coffee cup in the W. Village.

Fabrizio
November 30th, 2005, 04:19 AM
My problem with the Starbucks formula is that it lacks charm.

Few here probably remember the days when NYC had so many Chock-Full-o-Nuts counters, and Schraffts. Schraffts was gone when I got to NYC in the 70´s, but "Chocks" still existed. A coffee company that owned it´s own chain of coffee shops...just like Starbucks (but "Chocks" started it 70 years ago). Yellow and blue formica. Scalding coffee. Sandwiches of cream cheese on datenut bread (soooo 1950´s). That kind of stool-at-a-counter thing, with the lady doing refills and calling you "hon", was so American, kind of awfull and totally fabulous....of course some of that still exists in the various diners and so forth. It was charming. Starbucks is not.

http://img502.imageshack.us/my.php?image=chock9uk.jpg

BTW: I love Eisenburgs for a cup of coffee. When near the Flatiron building don´t miss it:

http://www.amateurgourmet.com/the_amateur_gourmet/2005/11/do_you_like_ame.html

http://www.frommers.com/destinations/newyorkcity/D40590.html

Another fave place for coffee. I remember when it had this great sagging wood floor... when they fixed it, it knda ruined it for me, but it´s still great:

http://www.caffereggio.com/

ZippyTheChimp
November 30th, 2005, 08:55 AM
Starbucks...too expensive, too complicated, too many choices. If
I could figure out what I wanted, I wouldn't need the coffee.

I was tour guide for west coast friends one day, when they needed a Starbucks break. It was easy finding one on Columbus Ave. Of course, I insisted on paying while fumbling with my wallet and the menu, but they had Starbucks accounts. I felt lost in my own city.

Simple reason why this is tolerated - caffeine.
"House blend" amounts for
Dunkin Donuts - 174 milligrams
7-Eleven - 141
Starbucks - 223

The average for all Starbucks - 320

http://www.cspinet.org/nah/caffeine/caffeine_corner.htm
A 16 oz grande has 3 times the caffeine as maximum strength No-Doz

Growing up with coffee percolators (who invented those awful things), quick morning take-out in a blue and white classic Greek cup was a step up - they used drip machines.

When I had to work on Saturday and everything was shut down, breakfast was at the open 24 hour Moondance Diner, before it became famous. Great coffee served at a booth, free seconds.

I haven't been there in years, but the menu lists:
Special coffee $1.25
Cappuccino $2.95

Ninjahedge
November 30th, 2005, 08:58 AM
I also remember that DD's USED to be a diner like donut shop where you had the stools and formica counters. You still get that in some of the older ones in the suburbs.

Now you are lucky to get one that does not have a TOGO's, Baskin Robins or other merged chain store in the same crowded space.

Now you get the Panera Bread/Starbucks semi 1950's living room look going where people drink their paper cup coffees at little tables scattered around the room.

They took the comfy coffeehouse from Cali and turned it into a streamlined shadow of it.

But, whatever. I am not paying $4 for a frigging coffee. the only worse beverage service I have ever seen is the $3 dixicup of diner OJ... :p

TLOZ Link5
November 30th, 2005, 11:05 AM
Few here probably remember the days when NYC had so many Chock-Full-o-Nuts counters, and Schraffts. Schraffts was gone when I got to NYC in the 70´s, but "Chocks" still existed. A coffee company that owned it´s own chain of coffee shops...just like Starbucks (but "Chocks" started it 70 years ago). Yellow and blue formica. Scalding coffee. Sandwiches of cream cheese on datenut bread (soooo 1950´s). That kind of stool-at-a-counter thing, with the lady doing refills and calling you "hon", was so American, kind of awfull and totally fabulous....of course some of that still exists in the various diners and so forth. It was charming. Starbucks is not.


Dang, the things that I missed out on. Curse you, Starbucks!

At the very least, New York does have a diner culture. DC literally has no diners whatsoever.

Ninjahedge
November 30th, 2005, 11:48 AM
Dang, the things that I missed out on. Curse you, Starbucks!

At the very least, New York does have a diner culture. DC literally has no diners whatsoever.

The diners migrated from Jersey... ;)

lofter1
November 30th, 2005, 12:38 PM
The brother of a friend of mine is the fortunate fellow who is the NUmber One guy negotiating the commercial leases for Starbucks in NYC (just think of the all the commi$$ion$ !!).

Before Starbucks opened their first NYC outlet (back in the mid 90s) this clever fellow hired a slew of people to stand on various street corners with clicker-counters and log the number of perople who passed by the sites they were considering. Clearly that info worked, as there have been very few Starbucks that have shut down (unless it was to move to another location within a block or two).

Whatever you think of their product (too much jolt for me) the Starbucks marketing folk have got their act together.

Ninjahedge
November 30th, 2005, 01:33 PM
They need to start rethinking it though.

They have many copycats out there, and the fact that they are so proliferant is ruining their quaint status that they had when they started. (They were something different for the regular Diner-coffee NYC crowd).

I don't know where they can go with it other than doing something like McD's is doing with the Chipolte Grills. (McD's started a new mexican franchise that sells decent Mex fast food (really easy to make and serve) at inflated prices ($6 for a beef burrito). They seem to be rather popular, being slightly better than some of the fusion slophouses like Happy Taco (A chinese run mexican place)).

It is odd that there are so few "genuine" mexican places around in a city with such a high hispanic population/presence. Cuban is not too big either, or puerto rican.....

I guess those places are more in the outer boroughs....

lofter1
November 30th, 2005, 02:08 PM
There are some great authentic "Island" joints in Manhattan, usually holes in the wall, nothing fancy at all. Mainly lunchtime service...

Two come to mind, both have been around forever: one on the NW corner of Spring / Lafayette (next to the news stand), another on the NW corner of Broadway / Broome.

Ninjahedge
November 30th, 2005, 04:09 PM
That would explain why I have not seen them... ;)

Just like going to a resort, you have to see where the locals go to find the good places! :)

lofter1
January 5th, 2006, 03:42 PM
^^ Well, lookie here ...

Just Fancy Enough to Call No-Frills

By PETER MEEHAN
New York Times
January 4, 2006

http://events.nytimes.com/2006/01/04/dining/reviews/04unde.html


http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/misc/spacer.gifhttp://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2006/01/04/dining/04unde.650.jpghttp://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/misc/spacer.gifhttp://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/misc/spacer.gif
Chester Higgins Jr./The New York Times

WHERE RICE MATTERS La Conquita, a Dominican lunch spot in SoHo.


THE Guggenheim's SoHo branch has been gone for years now. Keith Haring's Pop Shop is a more recent departure. And as SoHo marches on from artsy neighborhood to open-air mall, it's all but certain that Jamba Juice and its ilk will someday squeeze out the handful of neighborhood standbys like Buffa's Deli and Brisas del Caribe that are still around.

When that sad day comes, the one I will miss the most will be La Conquita, a surly, decade-old Dominican lunch spot on the west side of Lafayette Street.
There is no menu at La Conquita. No prices are posted, and the only working phone in the restaurant takes quarters. Stools are stationed along two walls, and a line snakes around the service counter and frequently out the door, even in January. At the end of that line is the best rice and beans in Lower Manhattan.

White rice and yellow rice; red beans and black beans: order one color of one and another of the other, opt for the sweet fried plantains and the vinegar onions. All of it will cost only $4.

For $2 more you can get meat on top of the rice and beans (nearly two pounds of nourishment for $6). You can choose roast pork, gamy and tender and always served with a little piece of skin attached, or "barbecued" chicken, which I doubt has ever seen a charcoal fire but is flavorful and tender all the same. Goat lovers should choose a helping of the goat stew, its simple goaty goodness augmented by vinegar and tomatoes.

I don't know the secret to La Conquita's rice and beans. The rice is fluffy, fresh and constantly replenished, though aside from the gravy it is served with it has no discernible seasoning of its own. The beans are toothsome but not firm, and tasty without much in the way of telltale bits of herb or meat poking through to give a clue.

A scan of the provisions in the narrow open kitchen reveals food-service-size cans of Hunt's tomatoes, and I know I saw a can of pork and beans.

All of the above can be red flags, signs of shortcuts in a kitchen. But at La Conquita they're not stowed away; they're practically on display. It's a declaration: "This is what we've got to cook with, and that steam table over there is what's for lunch. If you don't like it, stop clogging up the line."

I don't love everything the kitchen turns out: there are frequently sad-looking fish steaks that in eight years of regular visits I have never felt remotely motivated to try, and pasta that I tried only under professional compulsion. It was soft and sweet and, in a word, regrettable. I cannot account for its popularity.

But La Conquita's staying power is easy. It's a place to get a whole mess of food that is seasoned without being too salty, fatty without being greasy, and better than $6 will get you anywhere nearby.


La Conquita
236 Lafayette Street (Spring Street), SoHo; (212) 226-9835.
BEST DISHES Rice and beans with pork, barbecued chicken or goat stew.
PRICE RANGE $4 to $6.
CREDIT CARDS Cash only.
HOURS Monday through Saturday, 10 a.m. to 7 p.m.
WHEELCHAIR ACCESS All on one level. No restroom, and counter seating only.



Copyright 2006 (http://www.nytimes.com/ref/membercenter/help/copyright.html)The New York Times Company (http://www.nytco.com/)

CMANDALA
January 5th, 2006, 05:28 PM
If I said to you, "I have a great idea for a business. I'll open a whole new type of coffee shop. Instead of charging 60 cents for coffee. I'll charge $2.50, $3.50, $4.50, and $5.50.

Not only that, I'll have no tables, no chairs, no water, no free refills, no waiters, no busboys, serve it in cardboard cups, and have the customer clean it up for 20 minutes after they're finished."

Would you say to me, "That's the greatest idea for a business I ever heard! We can open a chain of these all over the world!"

No, you would put me right into a sanitarium.

And it's burnt coffee! It's burnt coffee at Starbuck's, be honest about it.

If you get burnt coffee in a coffee shop, you call a cop. You say, "It's the bottom of the pot. I don't drink from the bottom of the pot."But when it's burnt at Starbuck's, they say, "Oh, it's a special roast. It's a special bean from Argentina....."

The bean is in your head!!! I know burnt!!!

You want coffee in a coffee shop, that's 60 cents. But at Starbuck's, if it's Cafe Latte: $3.50. Cafe Creamier: $4.50. Caffe Suisse: $9.50. For each French word, another four dollars.

Why does a little cream in coffee make it worth $3.50? Go into any coffee shop; they'll give you all the cream you want until you're blue in the face. 40 million people are walking around in coffee shops with pitchers of cream: "Here's all the cream you want!"

And it's still 60 cents. You know why? Because it's called "coffee."You want cinnamon in your coffee? Ask for cinnamon in a coffee shop; they'll give you all the cinnamon you want. Do they ask you for more money because it's cinnamon? It's the same price for cinnamon in your coffee as for coffee without cinnamon - 60 cents, that's it.

But not in Starbucks.

Over there, it's Cinnamonnier - $9.50.

You want a refill in a regular coffee shop, they'll give you all the refills you want until you drop dead. You can come in when you're 27 and keep drinking coffee until you're 98.

And they'll start begging you: "Here, You want more coffee?" Do you know that you can't get a refill at Starbucks? A refill is a dollar fifty, two refills, $4.50. Three refills, $19.50. So, for four cups of coffee - $35.00.

And there's no chairs in those Starbucks. Instead, they have these high stools.

You ever see these stools? You haven't been on a chair that high since you were two.

Seventy-three year old Jews are climbing and climbing to get to the top of the chair. And when they get to the top, they can't even drink the coffee because there's 12 people around one little table, and everybody's saying, "Excuse me, excuse me, excuse me....."Then they can't get off the chair. Old Jews are begging Gentiles, "Mister, could you get me off this?"

Do you remember what a cafeteria was?

In poor neighborhoods all over this country, they went to a cafeteria because there were no waiters and no service. And so poor people could save money on a tip.

Cafeterias didn't have regular tables or chairs either. They gave coffee to you in a cardboard cup. So because of that you paid less for the coffee. You got less, so you paid less.

It's all the same at Starbucks - no chairs, no service, a cardboard cup for your coffee - except in Starbucks, the less you get, the more it costs. By the time they give you nothing, it's worth four times as much!

Am I exaggerating? Did you ever try to buy a cookie in Starbuck's?

Buy a cookie in a regular coffee shop. You can tear down a building with that cookie. And the whole cookie is 60 cents.

At Starbuck's, you're going to have to hire a detective to find that cookie, and it's $9.50.

And you can't put butter on it because they want extra.

Do you know that if you buy a bagel, you pay extra for cream cheese in Starbuck's? Cream cheese, another 60 Cents. A knife to put it on, 32 cents. If it reaches the bagel, 48 cents. That bagel costs you $3.12.

And they don't give you the butter or the cream cheese.

They don't give it to you. They tell you where it is. "Oh, you want butter? It's over there. Cream cheese? Over here. Sugar? Sugar is here."

Now you become your own waiter. You walk around with a tray. "I'll take the cookie. Where's the butter? The butter's here. Where's the cream cheese?

"The cream cheese is there."

You walked around for an hour and a half selecting items, and then the guy at the cash register has a glass in front of him that says "Tips."

You're waiting on tables for an hour, and you owe him money?

Then there's a sign that says please clean it up when you're finished.

They don't give you a waiter or a busboy. Now you've become the janitor. Now you have to start cleaning up the place.

Old Jews are walking around Cleaning up Starbuck's. "Oh, he's got dirt too? Wait, I'll clean this up." They clean up the place for an hour and a half.

Starbuck's can only get away with it because they have French titles for everything, %$#%^&*.

And I say this with the highest respect, because I don't like to talk about people.

AmeriKenArtist
January 5th, 2006, 07:47 PM
...DONE! I enjoyed your writing! I go to Starbuks infrequently. When I do, I get the smallest house blend which is not burnt, add one raw sugar and top it off with half-and-half and then sit at a table and read the paper. The cost is reasonable compared to other coffee houses- maybe twenty cents or so, more, and I enjoy the view.

pianoman11686
August 3rd, 2006, 09:52 AM
This one's for all you Starbucks-haters and lovers (if there are any on this site) alike:

Today, August 3rd, Starbucks is giving away free cups of Iced Coffee from 1 - 3 pm. They had a fullpage ad in amNewYork this morning, so I assume it's for all their locations in the city (that's a lot of coffee!) http://www.wirednewyork.com/forum/images/icons/icon10.gif

And considering it's gonna be another scorcher, I think it's well worth it to stop by one and cool off. I know I will!

lofter1
August 3rd, 2006, 10:49 AM
Thanks for the heads-up ;)

Punzie
December 8th, 2006, 06:06 AM
New Rule: The more complicated the Starbucks order, the bigger the a-hole. If you walk into a Starbucks and order a "decaf grande half-soy, half-lowfat, iced vanilla, double-shot, gingerbread cappuccino, extra dry, light ice, with one Sweet-n'-Low and one NutraSweet," ooh, you're a huge a-hole.

Luca
December 11th, 2006, 02:57 AM
1. Starbucks is not great, but it is decent. That's mroe than you can say of teh cofee in 99.9999999% of 'cafes' outside of Italy. I don't understand the animus, eitehr than sad peopel always goign after the successful/big guy.

2. ^ I must not be any kinda a-hole, sicne my oprder, is always "a short cappuccino, please."

I do dislike the whole "let's see how many ways we can **** up a perfectly good coffee" nonsense. having said that, sicne the merrykun cafes have taken over, you can get soy milk everywhere, which means that my lactose-intolerant son can have a minicino. :)

Marksix
December 11th, 2006, 05:23 AM
I visited a Starbucks once in my life in Philadelphia on Market Street. It was a beautiful day outside but the place was dark and closed-in with the airconditioning blasting. I do not drink out of paper cups....I guess I would if it were part of a relief effort....but I don´t see how anyone can actually enjoy coffee out of a paper cup. It would be like drinking wine with a straw. It´s just not done. And at those prices! I asked for a real cup which fortunately they did provide. Whether sitting down of standing up, coffee must be served not handed over. I wanted a splash of milk and they pointed me to a "milk station". I felt like a dope.

Fabrizio - I am thinking of moving to Valle D'Aosta to live, what do you think of that area? If there are no Starbucks there it sounds even better to me than it does already.

Fabrizio
December 11th, 2006, 08:59 AM
I only know this area passing through to France. Im a mediteranean beachy guy, not a mountain guy, so its not a place I choose. The weather is bad enough in Tuscany, up there its alot of fog and cold. BUT the quality of life is high. The soul is closer to swiss, perhaps people are not as expansive as we are down here. Good food...that is now being discovered by the international press. If you like to ski, its great.

Maybe Luca can help you out more.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valle_d'Aosta

Punzie
March 6th, 2007, 09:23 AM
Starbucks steams at "Starstrucks" Indian coffee chain

March 4, 2007

MUMBAI (Reuters) - Starbucks Corp. (NasdaqGS:SBUX (http://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=sbux) - News (http://finance.yahoo.com/q/h?s=sbux)) is opposing Indian entrepreneur Shahnaz Husain's plans to start a chain of coffee shops called Starstrucks, the Mint business paper reported.The U.S. coffee shop chain has told India's Controller-General of Patents, Designs and Trademark that the name is deceptively similar to its own name, the paper said.

Husain, an herbal beauty specialist who has a range of skincare and haircare products and salons named after her, is not willing to give up the name, the paper said.

"Why should I give it up? Hundreds of others are deceptively similar. What to do? They have opposed and we will fight," Husain, called the Herbal Queen, told Mint.

Husain plans to open 25 stores in a year. The shops will have a glamour theme, with posters of movie stars, the paper said.

"My concept's totally different," she said.

Starbucks, the latest in a line of foreign companies facing branding challenges in India, is reported to be awaiting permission from the Indian government to open its coffee shops in a joint venture with an Indonesian franchisee and Pantaloon Retail India Ltd.'s (Bombay:PART.BO (http://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=part.bo) - News (http://finance.yahoo.com/q/h?s=part.bo)) founder Kishore Biyani.

The government had sought some clarifications from Starbucks on its joint venture arrangement, local papers have said.

http://biz.yahoo.com/rb/070304/starbucks_starstrucks.html?.v=3

lofter1
March 6th, 2007, 09:35 AM
Starbucks vs Xingbake: IPR Protection in China

http://readbetweentheps.blogspot.com/2006/01/starbucks-vs-xingbake-ipr-protection.html

Its hit almost every newspaper by now. - Starbucks* won the case and Shanghai based Xingbake Coffee Co Ltd has to pay the punitive damages amounting to $62,500 or 500,000 yuan or Rs. 27.88 Lakhs!

Reason?


According to China Daily (http://www2.chinadaily.com.cn/english/doc/2006-01/02/content_508672.htm) ,
“One of the shops of the local company in the city's downtown Nanjing Road has a design similar to that of Starbucks: a round logo with green characters against white background Chinese characters reading "Xing Ba Ke" on the top and Cafe at the bottom."
Xing, pronounced "shing" means star in Chinese, and bake, or "bah kuh" sounds like bucks. Thus the name, logo, graphic elements and meaning are all subject to copyright infringement.



http://photos1.blogger.com/hello/71/5656/320/Starbucks.jpg (http://www.buytaert.net/cache/images-new-york-2004-starbucks-800x800.jpg)

http://photos1.blogger.com/hello/71/5656/320/xingbake.jpg (http://media-cyber.law.harvard.edu/blogs/static/qding/xingbake2.jpg)


This is how it all happened and the relevant timelines --
(Click on the image below)


http://photos1.blogger.com/hello/71/5656/320/Starbucks_Events.jpg (http://photos1.blogger.com/hello/71/5656/640/Starbucks_Events.jpg)

In an article in CNN called “Chinese court slides with Starbucks (http://www.cnn.com/2006/BUSINESS/01/02/china.starbucks.ap/?section=cnn_latest)”, the concern of the foreign companies had been highlighted.


“Foreign companies have complained for years that the Chinese government is failing to stamp out piracy of copyrighted or trademarked goods such as movies or designer clothes.”The entire Chinese Markets have been grappling with these issues of Intellectual Property Rights. In a recent article in Mckinsey Quarterly (http://www.mckinseyquarterly.com/) on “Protecting Intellectual Property in China (http://www.mckinseyquarterly.com/links/18655)”, a robust structure has been recommended for the IP model in China, not only from the legal perspective, but also from an operational and strategic perspective. Though the industries facing IP issues are primarily Consumer Electronics, Semiconductors, medical equipment, pharma and software, the food industry has also been impacted with the infringement issues.
Counterfeiting is one of the most important issues organizations would have to face in the coming year. As has been illustrated above, many local producers are imitating products to sell low-cost offerings to suit the cost-conscious consumers.

According to the study conducted by Mckinsey, most of the Chinese companies take the legal route to handle IP protection. They would need to take more of a proactive than a reactive approach and strategize accordingly. They should incorporate and institutionalize the IP rights, both internal as well as external to the organization.


“The best companies reduce the chance that competitors will steal their IP, by carefully selecting which products and technologies to sell and manufacture in China."Other critical features elaborated in the article include control of the senior Managers, awareness of the regulations and the practices, high ethical standards, preference for internationally experienced Chinese nationals and trusted partners for joint ventures.

Lately, with further opening up of the Chinese economy, there has been some relaxation on the rule of joint ventures for entry into the particular industry. Even Starbucks has started opening outlets directly as the government loosens regulations on foreign ownership in the sector. An unreliable partner could backfire, so one needs to exercise caution.

Incidentally, on one hand, Xingbake infringed upon the name of the biggest coffee giant in the world and paid a heavy penalty for it, another Bangkok-based Retail chain “Coffeebucks” does not have any copyright issues!

Doesn’t this name sound familiar?


http://photos1.blogger.com/hello/71/5656/320/Coffeebucks.jpg (http://photos1.blogger.com/hello/71/5656/640/Coffeebucks.jpg)

*The Seattle-based Starbucks Corporation set up the first coffee house in Seattle in 1971. Starbucks Corporation is now the world's largest coffee retailer with more than 6,500 coffee houses worldwide, out of which. 300 outlets are operating in Chinese mainland, Taiwan and Hong Kong.

lofter1
March 6th, 2007, 09:40 AM
Shanghai firm fined for infringing trademark of Starbucks

www.chinaview.cn (http://www.chinaview.cn)
Editor: Fiona Zhu
2007-01-05 16:27:22

SHANGHAI, Jan. 5 (Xinhua) --A Shanghai coffee company has been fined 500,000 yuan (64,000 U.S. dollars) for infringing on the trademark of the United States-based Starbucks coffeehouse chain.

The Shanghai Municipal Higher People's Court also ordered the Shanghai Xingbake Cafe to change its name and make a public apology to Starbucks in local newspaper, the Xinmin Evening News.

In 2003, the Starbucks Corporation and President Starbucks Coffee Company, a franchised Starbucks operator in Shanghai, filed a lawsuit against the Shanghai Xingbake Cafe and its subsidiary on the Nanjing Road, claiming Shanghai Xingbake had violated the rule of fair competition and infringed upon the trademark of U.S. Starbucks by using Xingbake and "starbuck" in its company name and business activities.

Shanghai Xingbake and its Nanjing Road branch also used a green logo similar to that of Starbucks on its menus, cafe windows, receipts and business cards. It has a picture of coffee cup in the circle, instead of a mermaid.

The court ruled that Shanghai Xinbake, established in 2000, had competed illegally by using the name Xingbake, the name Starbucks is using in China. The Chinese character "Xing" means "star", and the characters "ba" and "ke" sound together like "bucks".

The court ruled that Shanghai Xingbake had intentionally used Xingbake in its name and thus infringed the trademark of U.S. Starbucks.

Starbucks, the world's biggest coffee chain operator, registered its trademark Starbucks, Xingbake, the Chinese translation for Starbucks, and its logo, a green mermaid in a circle, in 1996 and 1999.

Starbucks had more than 200 outlets in 21 cities on the Chinese mainland by Oct. 1 last year. It opened its first store in 1999.

Ninjahedge
March 6th, 2007, 09:48 AM
I can understand that you do not want to mislead the public, but those two logos are different as night and day.

They are SIMILAR, granted, but saying that they are too similar is a bit scary.

Also, one thing has always gotten me. I can understand where pattenting and the like are important to be able to protect intellectual property right (especially when time and money have been spent for development), but for things like fasion, it makes such little sense.

If a logo, and a logo alone is worth so much money, maybe the company should look towards emphasizing its own quality rather than the inferred opulence or superiority in social standing conferred by its brand name *cough*LV*cough*.

If people are buying a product just for the logo, then the product itself is probably not worth it.

BenL
March 6th, 2007, 04:57 PM
Can't say I really like the Starbucks coffee or the way they monopolise the coffee market - I especially noticed this in San Francisco where there were Starbucks less than a block apart on many streets. They have really taken off in the UK, with more bars in London than Manhattan, although we do have some variety, which is admittedly a little like choosing between McDonald's and Burger King, with the higher quality Caffe Nero having around a hundred shops in London.

A personal incident endeared me to Stabucks rather more: When I was collecting prizes for a raffle for the charity Medecins Sans Frontieres, they were rather generous with a manager donating around £150 of coffee on the spot...

Front_Porch
March 6th, 2007, 08:50 PM
Last year, I had a barista drop a cup of coffee all over me and my laptop (totally understandable, accidents happen) but the store management was awful ("of course you can't use our phone; what do you mean you want us to pay for your dry-cleaning?") . . . and corporate management wasn't that much better . . .

fine product, lousy service.

ali r.

Punzie
March 7th, 2007, 12:32 AM
There's the problem, Ali: you make those poor baristas lug your coffee!

Face it, you are sitting there all comfy while the baristas are doing all the work. Well, you know, they could really use your helpful hand. The baristas are too shy to tell you this, but they are grateful when you prepare your own coffee. Oh, and please remember to reimburse them for half your tip.



.

Front_Porch
March 7th, 2007, 09:48 AM
Lol.

Gregory Tenenbaum
March 8th, 2007, 04:01 AM
This place is not quite Starbucks but pretty damn close.

Ninjahedge
March 8th, 2007, 09:09 AM
I was just looking at the green circle logo thing.

If they named their place "Starsbuck" they are infringing.

Meerkat
April 24th, 2007, 12:28 AM
I'm not at all keen on Starbucks. I don't like their coffee and its very expensive, plus there are just too many of them - they seem to be all over London now. I prefer going to privately owned coffee shops or cafe's - much nicer and a better atmosphere i think.

Sunnygirl
May 28th, 2007, 08:20 PM
But nothing beats a tall Java Chip on a dark and cloudy day... it just seems to bring out the smiles...:p

Punzie
May 31st, 2007, 06:28 PM
Sometimes, though, a puny expresso is enough for a quick fix.;)

Meerkat
July 21st, 2007, 11:15 PM
There is a Starbucks in the Forbidden city in Beijing - i couldn't believe it. In the middle of one of the most famous sites in the world.

The Benniest
July 23rd, 2007, 01:09 AM
I think this pretty much explains it. :P

http://www.starbuckseverywhere.net/NewYorkCity.htm

Luca
July 23rd, 2007, 03:47 AM
Fabrizio - I am thinking of moving to Valle D'Aosta to live, what do you think of that area? If there are no Starbucks there it sounds even better to me than it does already.

AFAIK, there are no Starbucks in Italy (or, there may be a handful in strategic tourist locations but not in ordinary settings. I've yet to see any and I've just come back from Rome, which does have MCDonald's).

The "Caffe'" in Italy are one of our national treasures: good quality at an affordable price; a broad choice of tasty lunch-time snacks; a place that is neither sanitized coffee-shop nor full-on nightspot (i.e. you can have a couple of beers).

About Valle d'Aosta -- if I'm not too late:

1. As you prob. already know, it's Italy's most mountainous region. All alps, very little flat ground. If you like skiing and hiking/climbing, it's a good place (also good white-water rafting).

2. Aside from Aosta itself, there are no significant towns, just villages and tourist resorts. Aosta is not a large town but a pleasant and historic one.

3. Very good food and wine. Oh, wait, that's EVERYWHERE in Italy.

4. Locals are not that friendly, especially at first; at least not by Itie standards.

5. A bit of a drive (not by US standards) to get to Turin, which is in itself fairly provincial. You’re talking nearly 3 hours to Milan.

I spent/spend a lot of my holidays in Val d'Aosta. It's wonderful for that; I'm not sure I'd want to live there but then again I'm a city type.

ablarc
July 23rd, 2007, 07:11 AM
Aside from Aosta itself, there are no significant towns, just villages and tourist resorts.
Perhaps not significant but terminally charming: check out the village of Entreves, right at the mouth of the Mont Blanc tunnel to France. Especially recommended: La Maison de Filippo, a gourmand's paradise. After you've had your fill of the all-you-can-eat prix fixe and its accompanying libations, you can totter upstairs to a featherbed among the curing hams. Cheers.

Ninjahedge
July 23rd, 2007, 10:01 AM
Luca, it will happen.

Just like having a Domino's pizza in Hoboken (land of at least a dozen pizzerias, most still Italian manned and owned), you will get the commercial chains coming in.

Although, grudgingly, I have to admit that SB compared to the real thing is better than Domino's compared to anything other than another chain.

One key difference though. A good Latte or Cappuchino in Italy will cost you SUBSTANTIALLY less than what SB charges you.

So unlike here, where Mc'D's or Domino's will give you something crappy for LESS than what you pay at a legit establishment, SB will be hard pressed to be able to make $$ in Italy unless they substantially Discount their products (Or pull a Wal-Mart kind of takeover...)

Fabrizio
July 23rd, 2007, 04:57 PM
StarBucks as it is known in the US will NOT be coming into Italy anytime soon. Perhaps they could get away with some fancy upscale flag-ship version in Rome or Milan... but you won't see them taking hold.

NO Italian will drink coffee out of cardboard cups for one thing.

The Starbuck scene does not jive with the lifestyle here. That way of drinking coffee is American. It's just different.

McDonald's one the other hand, has had luck in the big cities but less so in some smaller towns especially outside of the North.

Mine simply will not allow them in, although they do have a nice but rather empty one out on a highway... set back behind bushes.

My town is an Italian Socialist/Communist hot-spot: no McDonald's in the town proper.

One town's story...do read:

http://www.iht.com/articles/2006/01/12/news/italy.php

http://www.organicconsumers.org/btc/slowfood010906.cfm

(oh BTW: when I'm in Florence I like to stop in McDonald's for a small fries... right by the train station.)


---

Eugenious
July 23rd, 2007, 05:05 PM
New Rule: The more complicated the Starbucks order, the bigger the a-hole. If you walk into a Starbucks and order a "decaf grande half-soy, half-lowfat, iced vanilla, double-shot, gingerbread cappuccino, extra dry, light ice, with one Sweet-n'-Low and one NutraSweet," ooh, you're a huge a-hole.

I like to order a "Venty 2% Iced Vanilla White Chocolate triple shot Soy chai latte frappucino with whip cream and caramel"

Fabrizio
July 23rd, 2007, 05:09 PM
^ That's what I mean. Where I come from people would call that "la solita americanata".

Ninjahedge
July 23rd, 2007, 05:23 PM
Fab, thing is, places like that come in and are supported not by the people that you would call locals...

The whole thing about Dominoes surviving ANYWHERE in the metro area is that people do not know any better. Especially people who were not raised on the metro-slice.

"California Pizza Kitchen" is one I get a big laugh out of, having sampled some of California's fare when I went to school out there. One thing Cali was never known for was pizza, but yet somehow the suburbanites here think that somehow it is something to go for and whole-heartedly support it at the local malls.

I agree with you, people in your area in general will not support the over-priced, over segmentalized commercialized cardboard cup franchise that SB has to offer, but areas that might be a bit hungrier would look at it differently. I think there was a SB at the airports in both Barcelona and Venice when we were theer recently, and I would not be surprised if there were ones in some of the major tourist places. But they would find it very hard to get into other areas.

It would be like a German bar serving Coors Light. Unfortunately, it is something that just might happen.....

itsallgoode9
July 23rd, 2007, 10:02 PM
eh, i love starbucks. For me, i don't want to sit there and drink my coffee out of a mug; I want to stop in, get my coffee and leave off to wherever i'm going or wherever I just came from. Speaking of that, i generally never get plain coffee, i tend to get random various frappucinnos or something different.....never plaine coffe, it's free at the office so why pay. Convenience and variety are the things that make me like starbucks so much.

sfenn1117
July 24th, 2007, 12:41 AM
(oh BTW: when I'm in Florence I like to stop in McDonald's for a small fries... right by the train station.)

I ate at that one when I was there....I was craving some mcnuggets. There's also one in the train station and I grabbed a big mac heading back to Rome. I can't believe they charge 10 cents for each sweet and sour!

mothproof
August 15th, 2007, 02:35 AM
ive been to starbucks only once. my friend's treat.

it wasn't that "wow" for me. i have more fun making my own coffee and hanging out in our living room than sizing up people and being sized up by everyone else in glorified coffee shops.

Joelio
October 21st, 2007, 05:15 AM
I've been to Starbucks once as well, although being my age, I didn't get coffee ;). I had... um... I can't remember what I had, but I had a Brownie with it. Like Mothproof said, it wasn't "wow" for me, it was sort of... "People go crazy over these?"

And to the OP's point (the number of Starbucks in New York). I think it's the same in Auckland, but thats taking into consideration the fact that Auckland is a lot smaller than Manhattan. I think in Auckland it's probably like... 1 Starbucks to every 16 in New York. :p

I know of about 6 Starbucks in Auckland... (in a small space). One on Ponsonby Road, One on K' Road, three on Queen Street :cool: and one in Takapuna (across the Harbour).

Although to you NY'ers that probably sounds like nothing.

I think the situation is the same in New York with McDonalds. In the film Supersizeme, Morgan what-his-name goes past like, 5 McDonalds in 3 blocks, or something. :D

Capn_Birdseye
October 21st, 2007, 06:56 AM
I think Starbucks is the worst coffee-shop chain around - I really dislike their coffee - give me Costa or Cafe Nero anytime!!

On visits to NYC it seems you just can't escape Starbucks but even if I need an urgent caffeine fix I'll walk past their odious shop to find something else.

As for McDonalds .......

America, what have you done to the world's food and beverages??

Joelio
October 21st, 2007, 07:20 AM
^^McDonalds in America just looks plain disgusting. In New Zealand it's actually not THAT bad.

Although it was recently discovered that the McD's healthy choices have pretty much just as much fat in them as in the normal meals :p

Ronald McDonald must be rolling in his grave... assuming he's dead, which I'm pretty sure he is... all that McDonald's he consumed during advertisements.. :rolleyes:

NoyokA
October 21st, 2007, 02:10 PM
I used to like Starbucks. I never used to go there for a caffeine fix, Id go there with friends if we didn't have anything else to do for a little while, but the bulk of my time at starbucks was spent studying, I'd pay $5.00 or whatever it is for a coffee and stay there for like 3 hours doing work. No more. Now that Starbucks is charging for wireless and is blocking free wireless providers I wont be returning to Starbucks or buying Starbucks products in the forseeable future.

Front_Porch
October 21st, 2007, 05:53 PM
Starbucks does well because their coffee is more caffeinated than many of their rivals -- just as McDonalds does well because their food is more fat-laced than many of their rivals -- but I think that blocking free wireless access is going to hurt them.

ali r.
{downtown broker}

Ninjahedge
October 22nd, 2007, 10:44 AM
^^McDonalds in America just looks plain disgusting. In New Zealand it's actually not THAT bad.

Although it was recently discovered that the McD's healthy choices have pretty much just as much fat in them as in the normal meals :p

Ronald McDonald must be rolling in his grave... assuming he's dead, which I'm pretty sure he is... all that McDonald's he consumed during advertisements.. :rolleyes:

Come to think of it, I don't remember him ever eating on the comemrcials.

He was always singing or dancing or playing with little children.


Now, as for them charging for internet, that is just plain silly. Just put in a good dependable wireless with a bandwidth cap on the connections (to prevent streamers, UL/DLers and freeloaders) and you are not talking that much $$$ for the connection!

Bob
October 22nd, 2007, 07:36 PM
I don't mind their coffee. Their politics I can do without. Leave out the caffeine and the lock-step socialism, please.

Joelio
October 23rd, 2007, 02:41 AM
Come to think of it, I don't remember him ever eating on the comemrcials.

He was always singing or dancing or playing with little children.

Come to think of it (lol), you're right! :eek:It's always the little kids eating the food.. :( He's killing the kids in his ads for the sake of his own wealthyness. That really sucks.

Back on Starbucks - How many do you guys reckon there are in NYC? :confused:

voodoochild
October 23rd, 2007, 09:23 AM
I was in nyc for the first time in a few years a couple weeks ago. One thing i noticed was a lot of starbucks in manhattan. Its crazy! At some places i could see two starbucks at the same time! How long was it like this? Was it always like that and i didn't notice before? last time i was there was Feb 01.

I actually think it's sad that there are so many of these chains everywhere you look. The city used to be full of mom and pops stores and cute boutiques, now it looks like one big commercial melting pot of fast food and coffee chains. :(

eddhead
October 23rd, 2007, 11:10 AM
i am a pretty frequent visitor actually. i find the coffee to be quite good (perhaps over roasted a tad) and the bar drinks work for me. Notwithstanding the effect they have on the landscape, the sheer number of storefronts offers convenience as well. For instance, I perfer Empire Coffee on 9th ave and 41st st, but it is kind of hard to get there from where I work which is in the financial district. On the other hand there are literally 5 starbucks within walking distance of my office.

Wasn't aware their coffee had more caffeine. In fact, I was under the opposite impression.. primarily because they over roast the beans a bit which is a process I always thought led to a reduced amount of caffeine and a stronger taste.

GQ_Homme
October 24th, 2007, 06:25 AM
Starbucks coffee has an aquired taste. I'm not into that burnt coffee taste so when neccessary I go to local (non-chain) coffeehouses but most times stick to my French coffee press which I prefer to anything else

NewYorkDoc
October 26th, 2007, 11:12 PM
I go to Starbucks often because I know where they are, and I know I like the latte inside. I often tell myself to not go anymore, and try some other places. But, the problem is I dont know where those places are. So when the urge for a vanilla latte hints, I head to the closest Starbucks, which I always seem to know where one is. Although, that can't be too hard can it, being that theyre on every other block.

Gregory Tenenbaum
October 29th, 2007, 06:29 AM
^^McDonalds in America just looks plain disgusting. In New Zealand it's actually not THAT bad.

Although it was recently discovered that the McD's healthy choices have pretty much just as much fat in them as in the normal meals :p

Ronald McDonald must be rolling in his grave... assuming he's dead, which I'm pretty sure he is... all that McDonald's he consumed during advertisements.. :rolleyes:

Ive been to NZ and there is little difference in the product. In fact, Ive eaten McDonalds just about everywhere in the world.

The differences are these:

In the US, only certain people, drunk people on the way home and families with children on the road go to McDonalds

In Europe, NZ, etc, people actually regard McDonalds as a real restaurant and go there every day, with families on the weekends, as some kind of treat.

I was sitting at an outdoor table at a McDonalds in Europe recently and there was couple from New York there and we were talking about how the differences in the people who went to McDonalds there as opposed to New York.

The German father sitting nearby was horrified when we told him how McDonalds was regarded in NY and who would go there and why; he was there with his family.

In Europe they really regard it as some kind of good restaurant with real American hamburgers.

I love this McDonalds commercial from the 70s.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XKR1ScQUpcA

This one however, reminds me of House of a 1000 Corpses

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=krXP_TUZqsk

Gregory Tenenbaum
October 29th, 2007, 06:34 AM
As for coffee:

Juan Valdez near Times Square cant be beat

Nor can Seattle's Best Coffee in Borders at Madison Square Garden.

Alonzo-ny
November 4th, 2007, 05:11 PM
In Europe they really regard it as some kind of good restaurant with real American hamburgers.


What? This isnt true.

Fabrizio
November 4th, 2007, 05:36 PM
LOL I don't think they quite see the food as "good", but GT is right that the chain has a much more up-scale image in Europe.

First of all, at least speaking for Italy, the prices are high. The interior design is classy, nice lighting. You see families, young couples etc.

They don't have the depressed, trashy feeling McDonald's has in the US.

http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/08/17/business/wbmcdo.php

In the US, this look would only be reserved for the finest:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/webel/1690885907/

Alonzo-ny
November 4th, 2007, 06:34 PM
in the Uk at least we know exactly what it is.

MidtownGuy
November 5th, 2007, 08:02 PM
I rarely eat at McD's here but when I'm overseas it's sometimes the most reasonable choice. There are times when a big production, slow food meal is not going to work with trying to cover 4 neighborhoods in one afternoon, and the other 'quick' food in Europe is so often overpriced and/or miniscule. You go into a McDonalds and you know what to expect. The McD's in Europe often have decent food, at least the filet-o-fish and fries, that's all I ever order. In some Mediterranean countries McD's uses olive oil which is much better.

Luca
November 7th, 2007, 10:01 AM
In the US, only certain people, drunk people on the way home and families with children on the road go to McDonalds


Bullsh!t. Utter bullsh!t. Maybe in NYC, certainly not in the US of A.


In Europe [...] people actually regard McDonalds as a real restaurant and go there every day, with families on the weekends, as some kind of treat.


Are you smoking crack? In Europe McDonalds is considered utter sh!t. I don't know anyone over 10 years of age who professes to like McDs in Europe.



On Starbucks. Regardless of the fact that some people get very excited about it, the fact remains that pre-Starbucks:
> there was nowhere in the US outside of a few bohemian areas in major cities where you could even GET an espresso or a cappuccino.
> the average quality of coffee was an international joke. Starbucks’ blend isn’t stellar, but it is better than moat coffee outside of Italy (especially France or Spain, yikes!!).

Some fellow UK posters have commented on the supposed superiority of Caffe’ Nero and (hmm) Costa Coffee. IF any of you live in London I challenge you to tell the difference in a blind taste test. What kind of odds can I get?? I tend to go to Caffe’ Nero but mainly because I like the décor better and they tend to be tidier than SB. The coffee is pretty comparable.

If you’re ever near Liverpool Street / Spitalfields market, there’s an Italian guy with a small mobile espresso vending post that makes the best coffee in London (usually parked at the western end of Brushfield Street).

Fabrizio
November 7th, 2007, 10:06 AM
"In Europe McDonalds is considered utter sh!t. I don't know anyone over 10 years of age who professes to like McDs in Europe."

Luca, I really think you should see the overhaul of McDonalds in Europe. Read the link in the IHT I posted. Yes, certainly, the food is not considered "good"... but none the less, the chain has a much more up-scale feel here. Sorry but the McD in the US ...at least those I've experience do have a trashy feel to them.

ZippyTheChimp
November 7th, 2007, 10:19 AM
The lighting in most fast-food restaurants is harsh to promote rapid customer turnover.

sarahwestcott
November 11th, 2007, 03:43 PM
Starbucks sucks. I've never been a fan. Their coffee tastes like burnt wood to me. I much prefer diner coffee, or better yet, the homemade stuff.

Meerkat
November 11th, 2007, 11:32 PM
If you’re ever near Liverpool Street / Spitalfields market, there’s an Italian guy with a small mobile espresso vending post that makes the best coffee in London (usually parked at the western end of Brushfield Street).


Thanks for the tip Luca - i'll grab a coffee from him on my way to work this week. Starbucks coffee tastes vile - i recently had a starbucks and soon remembered exactly why i generally avoid them. Yuk.

I much prefer 'Pret a manger' as 1) the coffee is very nice 2) Its cheaper and 3) most of the stores have seating arranged so that you can people watch through the window.

Zippy - is that true about the harsh lighting in fast food restaurants?

Luca
November 13th, 2007, 12:31 PM
Thanks for the tip Luca - i'll grab a coffee from him on my way to work this week. Starbucks coffee tastes vile - i recently had a starbucks and soon remembered exactly why i generally avoid them. Yuk.

I much prefer 'Pret a manger' as 1) the coffee is very nice 2) Its cheaper and 3) most of the stores have seating arranged so that you can people watch through the window.

That's the beauty of competition, you get your coffee where you want.

BTW, if you prefer Pret's coffee to stabucks', you might find Mr Coffee a bit too roasted (they use Illy) for you, Should give it a try anyhow.


Zippy - is that true about the harsh lighting in fast food restaurants?

They were meant to be designed like that in the 50s-70s. I think they at least theoretically started to soften up a bit in the 1980s.

MidtownGuy
November 13th, 2007, 12:41 PM
Starbucks is bilge water.
I brew my own coffee at home when I get the occasional urge, and it's always better.
My mother has been drinking coffee for 50 years and she hates Starbucks, says even Dunkin' Donuts is better. It's just so boring to see them everywhere you go, and the caffeinated waifs sitting inside for a moment of belonging look so much like zombies, pecking away on their laptops like pigeons starved for meaning.
So overpriced too, and paper cups...yuck!

Zerlina
November 13th, 2007, 05:00 PM
Italian coffee is the best!:)

Gregory Tenenbaum
November 16th, 2007, 12:49 PM
[COLOR=black]

[COLOR=black]Bullsh!t. Utter bullsh!t. Maybe in NYC, certainly not in the US of A.



Are you smoking crack? In Europe McDonalds is considered utter sh!t. I don't know anyone over 10 years of age who professes to like McDs in Europe.


Go to a McDonalds in Germany or some other countries in Europe ( I dont know about Italy) and you will see family after willing family dining there.

As I said, the German father was stunned when I told him how McDonalds was regarded in NYC.

And its not rubbish, go to McDonalds in NYC on a weekend and you will see a whole different type of clientele...

Anyway, other than stating this, Im not going to argue with you, because you think you are correct. Ok, you win. Next topic.

Gregory Tenenbaum
November 16th, 2007, 12:54 PM
in the Uk at least we know exactly what it is.

The UK is not the Continent. I said Europe.

Meerkat
November 16th, 2007, 01:13 PM
^Glad to see you admit that someone else is correct and you are wrong.

For a change.

Ninjahedge
November 16th, 2007, 01:56 PM
Nobody likes hearing, "You are wrong." It's almost asking for an argument.


No it isn't. [/MP]

Alonzo-ny
November 16th, 2007, 10:08 PM
The UK is not the Continent. I said Europe.

Why did you say Europe when you meant on the continent then? The Uk is in Europe. Be more specific.

Meerkat
November 17th, 2007, 09:46 AM
http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i130/Rapunzel61/EWNY/Wacky/pidgeon2.gif
..........Ninjahedge


^Thats not very nice. Rather uncalled for in my opinion.

And we've been led off topic again. I thought it was a discussion about Starbucks, not McDonalds.

My own observations of the clientele eating at McD's in Europe and the US - they appear to been more or less identical. I can't say i've seen many eager families eating there anywhere in Europe. Its fast food - a place to go if you are in a hurry and want to grab a quick bite to eat, especially if you are under 18.

Fabrizio
November 17th, 2007, 10:26 AM
No, the clientele eating at McD's in Europe are NOT identical to those in the US.

They are two very different markets and MCDs in Europe has responded accordingly.

Again I will post this from the IHT about their operations here.

From the article:

"For McDonald's, a European redesign starts to pay off"

"The Golden Arches are going upscale in Europe..."

"Aiming to create a more relaxed, restaurantlike experience in a sophisticated atmosphere, McDonald's is replacing bolted-down, plastic, yellow and white "furniture" with lime-green designer chairs and dark leather upholstery."

"McDonald's is also introducing more healthful foods and items that cater to regional tastes.."

"The original impetus for the makeover was a European sales slump in the late 1990s, brought on by concerns about obesity and European annoyance at unappealing décor

"To make McDonald's and a Big Mac work in the country of slow food, we felt we had to pay more attention to space and showcasing,"

"Some analysts say the new design works better in Europe than in the United States, where a majority of McDonald's customers prefer to eat in their cars or take their food home. "And they won't change their habits,"

Question: if the clientele in the US and Europe is THE SAME then please explain the above.

Thank you.

http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/08/17/business/wbmcdo.php

From the NYSun:

http://www.nysun.com/article/57654?page_no=2

"After investing heavily in market research, Mr. Hennequin overhauled the whole operation, upgrading the décor, tweaking recipes, using more organic ingredients, providing nutrition labeling, and countering criticism from Mr. Bové and others by opening its restaurants to scrutiny."

"For an American observer, the most striking change is the design. The red and yellow kiddy template has been supplanted by more mature colors. Outside signage in urban areas is more discreet and blends into the neighborhood. Restaurants now have leather upholstery seating and some have gas fireplaces, candles, and hardwood floors. McDonald's has spent hundreds of millions of dollars to "re-image" about a third of its more than 6,300 restaurants in Europe and 70% of its branches in France."


All of that is not done if the clientele is "the same".

---

McDs in Germany.... please note the photos:

http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/20070630/mcdonalds-europe.htm



---

Meerkat
November 17th, 2007, 10:36 AM
^ From my personal observations I disagree.

As i said before, when i go to McD's (which i rarely) anywhere in Europe the customers appear very similar to the type of customer i see when i visit the US. Teenagers, and people in a rush.

But when i'm in the Edgeware road area (as mentioned in the link) i'll go and have a look at this sophisticated McDonalds mentioned. If i'm impressed i'll concede that you are right, but i wouldn't hold your breath.

But again, this thread is supposed to be about Starbucks, isn't it????

Fabrizio
November 17th, 2007, 10:51 AM
Follow the thread. It veers (as do most threads here) from Starbucks, to beer, to other coffeee outlets, to McDonalds to... whatever.

It's a conversation.

Meerkat
November 17th, 2007, 11:03 AM
^ Well, i shall be in Prague for a few days next month, and will make a point of eating in McD's there - assuming i find one that is. I don't really think that it will be any different from any of the other branches that i have eaten anywhere else.

I agree the photos of the branch in Germany are very nice, but i've never seen a McD's like that anywhere else in Europe, so i can only assume that the branch in question is an exception rather that the rule.

Alonzo-ny
November 17th, 2007, 11:33 AM
Ive eaten Mcds in the UK, Paris, Krakow, USA and they are all pretty identical. It seems more upscale, to me, because of the difference in peoples attitutes to it not because of the decor etc. Emphasis on the word 'seems' its the vibe in the european ones that is different nothing else.

Fabrizio
November 17th, 2007, 12:42 PM
OMG...all of those HUNDREDS of millions invested in Europe to re-image their image... all that new decor, new menus, miles and miles of brown leather seating.... they even go and retire Ronald McDonald...and all for what?

Nuthin'.

Meerkat & Alonzo don't even notice.

Think of all the money they could have saved.

Alonzo-ny
November 17th, 2007, 12:51 PM
I barely frequent these establishments. Cheap plastic brown leather.

Gregory Tenenbaum
November 18th, 2007, 01:05 PM
Why did you say Europe when you meant on the continent then? The Uk is in Europe. Be more specific.

Well, when I say Europe to most Englishmen, they dont hear the words Member of the European Union. They hear the words Europe and think of a geographical area.

The British Isles are not part of the Continent.

I was walking past a McDonalds today and saw family after family in there. They outnumbered the teenagers. And it was in Eastern Europe. I only made the comments I did based on my own observations of the differences. I will never forget that German father's reaction to what I said, especially when I talked about the ethnicity of McDonalds clientele and workers in New York.

Meerkat
November 19th, 2007, 02:23 AM
I barely frequent these establishments. Cheap plastic brown leather.

Exactly. No matter how much they try to revamp their image they will always be considered cheap. As i say - fast food for people in a rush.

Last time i used McDonalds was after a night shift. I stopped by on my way to the station for a bagel and latte. I had to repeat my order 4 times as the guy serving could barely speak English. Not very good for customer service really.

If they are going to spend so much trying to improve their image they should employ staff who can serve their customers.

Ninjahedge
November 19th, 2007, 12:10 PM
http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i130/Rapunzel61/EWNY/Wacky/pidgeon2.gif
..........Rap on Topic


Also: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-572077907195969915

Try asking before you crap on someone Rap! :p

Alonzo-ny
November 19th, 2007, 12:23 PM
I have to admit i like Mcd fries but i refuse to eat their 'meat'

Fabrizio
November 19th, 2007, 02:37 PM
BTW: I eat largely local and really nothing that I can think of that's imported (canned tuna from Portugal? an occasional German beer?). I buy food nearly everyday or mostly eat at a few trattorias that I consider home. I enjoy cooking and do it nearly every day... even if I'm alone. I do not do take-out (the options in that regard here are very slim... pizza once in a while?). I buy meat at my butcher. I do not buy ground meat in a super market. Mine is ground in front of my eyes. I'm fortunate to be just steps from a day-long 6 day-a-week fresh out-door produce market. I mostly eat in season. No strawberries in the winter or other such foolishness. Cheese and eggs from a dairy shop... fish from the fish monger. The best locally made chocolates... good wine.. good Xtr V. oil. Oven baked bread. Pastry from the shop down the street. etc... and etc.

McDonald's? In Europe, I think they're doing a fine job.


----

Meerkat
November 19th, 2007, 03:21 PM
^ You're making my mouth water. There's a farmers market near me i buy food at. If i can, i tend to buy local produce. Much nicer than supermarket pre-packed food.

Ninjahedge
November 19th, 2007, 05:09 PM
So when you coming over to NYC to cook for us Fab?

;)

Meerkat
November 22nd, 2007, 10:28 PM
Out of curiosity does anyone here eat at 'Subway'? I've notice they seem to be more or less everywhere now.

Alonzo-ny
November 22nd, 2007, 11:13 PM
I do periodically, its ok but the veggies always seem on the crappier side.

Ninjahedge
February 22nd, 2008, 09:41 AM
concerns that it may have saturated its domestic market.

No, really?

MidtownGuy
February 22nd, 2008, 09:57 AM
I wish they would start closing some of them down. That company is a cancer.

ZippyTheChimp
February 22nd, 2008, 10:54 AM
I don't mind Starbucks, although I think their coffee is over roasted; but there are too many of them.

So not cancer.

Obesity.

NYatKNIGHT
February 22nd, 2008, 11:14 AM
Right, gluttons. Hoarders.

MidtownGuy
February 22nd, 2008, 11:17 AM
At this point "Too many of them" is an understatement. They are practically every 2 blocks, and that represents, IMO, a metastasizing cancer upon the streetscape. Uncontrolled growth that invades and spreads injuriously.
Yup, a cancer.:p

NoyokA
February 22nd, 2008, 11:19 AM
Good news. Hopefully Duane Reade and Chase are next.

MidtownGuy
February 22nd, 2008, 11:23 AM
The blue wrap-around Chase signs that can visually rape an entire intersection should be outlawed. Their tacky signs at Astor Place deserve to be smashed with a hammer.

Capn_Birdseye
February 22nd, 2008, 11:42 AM
I wish they would start closing some of them down. That company is a cancer.
Totally agree with you MTG, I avoid them at all costs, give me Cafe Nero or Costa any day.
McDonald's, Burger King, Pizza Hut & Domino's should also be closed down - junk food and a blot on the landscape!

NoyokA
February 22nd, 2008, 12:56 PM
Although I don't eat at those restaurants and never understood how Pizzahut/Dominos/Papa Johns could survive in NY when there pizza is the same price and horrible compared to real pizza readily available, these places have a right to exist. Its not like there's three Burger Kings one block apart as there is with Starbucks on Astor Place.

Ninjahedge
February 22nd, 2008, 02:37 PM
Do you think that is the fault of Starbucks itself, or is it more the fault of people who buy the franchise license and open one in an area that they think they can get money at?

Is SB's set up like that or is it still run, owned and operated by Grand Central in Seattle?

If it is teh former, it is just greed talking. People opening what they think will get the most $$. Sad thing is, 3 SB's in a 1 block radius and I still see lines at them in the morning!

NoyokA
February 22nd, 2008, 02:48 PM
Are all Starbucks in Manhattan franchises? I'm under the impression that some are and some are corporately owned. I don't know for sure though.

pianoman11686
February 22nd, 2008, 08:51 PM
If they've truly overexpanded, then they'll close down the stores that are underperforming. Otherwise, give the people what they want.

lofter1
February 22nd, 2008, 10:02 PM
And when a Starbucks closes and there's still time remaining on the lease then chances are a Pinkberry (http://money.cnn.com/2007/10/15/magazines/fortune/boyle_pinkberry.fortune/) will move in.

http://www.pinkberry.com/

Or for a little competition a Red Mango (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Mango) might grab the spot.

http://www.redmangousa.com/

It's amazing to me to see how many gals you see in all these "healthy" yogurt shops, not to mention "Rice to Riches (http://www.ricetoriches.com/frameset.php?content=/startpage.php)" (where folks go for umpteen disgusting flavors of rice pudding down in Little Italy).

MidtownGuy
February 23rd, 2008, 01:51 AM
Otherwise, give the people what they want.

What if they really do want something else, but can't find it close enough? Or might prefer something else comparable, but with a different twist, if only it was there to be tried?

Sometimes an established corporate giant, who can afford 3 locations in a 4 block radius, can make it extremely difficult for new competition to get a shoe in. Especially when rents are prohibitively high for start-ups because the giants can afford to pay more (and do), driving up rents.

Furthermore, when the giants get big enough they don't even have to continue offering the same quality,value, or service that made them popular to begin with because no one else can begin to compete with the economy of scale they exploit.

Then there is the discussion we have already had, and some of us will never agree on, about the value of diversity and its relation to the quality of life. It seems pianoman would be perfectly unconcerned if every block had the same handful of corporate chains repeated over and over, while we wait for things to change, so long as an unregulated market precipitated the situation. No interference should be made. Eventually the market corrects it. EVENTUALLY being the key word. And maybe it never does. I, on the other hand, would be perfectly happy to see an ordinance that says...NO MORE THAN ONE of the same chain store every SIX BLOCKS (for example;)). Not exactly, but something studied, and worked out. Certainly they could still make their huge profits with one store every six blocks. That's quite generous an allowance.

I like taming beasts and making them work for me rather than letting them trample over my city like Godzilla vs. Mothra. No, a battle between Starbucks and Dunkin' Donuts doesn't qualify as choice or truly useful competition. The theories of "wait until the market corrects the problem" just don't work ALL of the time. How much do we lose while we wait for the holy market correction that may never come? Economic "free" market" ideologues don't impress me with their false religion and pseudoscience... I want an enjoyable city now, not whenever; and I don't mind some market interference if that's what it takes when things start going down the toilet.:p

We all know Manhattan's greatness, in no small part, has stemmed from the variety of businesses big and small that were able to operate here and make the island a densely varied, wonderfully urban experience. I'd like to see it stay that way and enjoy it. In my lifetime. Without interruption. I'm mortal, and selfish that way.;)

pianoman11686
February 23rd, 2008, 04:23 PM
Funny you should mention the toilet, seeing as Starbucks has within a few years performed an amazing public service feat that took 4 different mayors and who knows how many bureaucrats to arrange.

If Starbucks is so oversaturated, and so terrible, then it will simply get run out of business. As of now, though, you still see 10+ people in line at almost every Starbucks in the morning. And I actually know no one who goes to Starbucks and doesn't like it.

MidtownGuy
February 23rd, 2008, 05:55 PM
Of course many like it. But I know plenty of people who wish there were other choices because they'd like something else better if it were available. Not that its product is so terrible... its oversaturation is, though. And I elaborated about the running out of business thing. All these points.How's your reading comprehension? Do the words make it through that thick cloud of dogma you walk around with?You can't adequately refute my points so you just restate yours in another way. Whatever. Same ol' same ol' with pianoman.

And by the way, you see 10+ people in line at every store that sells anything with food or drink in the morning. Its rush hour, duh.:rolleyes:

pianoman11686
February 23rd, 2008, 06:05 PM
Jeez. Have you considered that maybe I don't want to refute all your points (again)?

MidtownGuy
February 23rd, 2008, 06:19 PM
Not that you ever really did.:rolleyes:

pianoman11686
February 23rd, 2008, 09:12 PM
Zing!

pianoman11686
February 24th, 2008, 10:30 PM
None.

Contrary to some people's opinions, I don't have ulterior motives in saying "there's nothing wrong with the current Starbucks 'problem'."

Ninjahedge
February 25th, 2008, 11:15 AM
I agree w/rap.

The cafe is gone, replaced by the "NOW NOW NOW" places liek Starbucks.

Hell, even DD is not what it used to be (the "everyman's" chain where the coffee was simple and fresh, and you had doughnuts made fresh ON PREMISIS!).

SB started out new and interesting. Getting stronger exotic brews that you could not get from the Deli, diner or corner shop. But they became too successful too quickly, forcing out the things that should have stayed (cafes) while letting the places that served the crappy stuff stay (they simply stopped serving "aged" coffee).

Also, like what was said about most chains, they lost track of what they were offering. they became too generic, lost their original quality. (One of the biggest examples of these, for me, was Boston Market. Was always a good place to get a roasted chicken with some good simple sides on a day when you could not cook, but now... I went there once, to the Hoboken one, about 6 years ago. The sandwich there was the first one I have ever thrown out unfinished. I have not been back since!)


As for "free market", that is absolute BS. As Wal-Mart has proven, a national chain can wipe out all local competition by shifting assets from conquered markets to compeditive ones. Prices from one store to the next vary as the markets allow, and they force a depression in the value of commodities in areas where they want to dominate.

Home depot and Sports Authority are similar. I see very few small shops around anymore, and many of the items, in cost, quality and availability are getting very limited now that they have noone to worry about.



Now, as for the lines? Those are coffee-monkeys. I am sorry, but I fail to see the need to stand in line for a cup of caffene. But that is part of their routine now, and most pther places do not offer that level of exotic coffee at that level of convenience. Also, quite frankly, they are the onlt coffee stores/shops that I see nowadays. I see no other competition anywhere in midtown! You want coffee? You have to either:

a) Sit down at a diner/restaurant
b) Get it from a street vendor.
3) Get in line at StarPlucks.



Don't get me wrong, I do not see a problem with them as an individual store, but just like the Banks and other aggressive renters, the city has become over-saturated and dominated by them.

Hell, they even closed my favorite bar (made it move - $$) to put in a SB's in the West Village!

:(

brianac
April 11th, 2008, 04:00 AM
by Lysandra Ohrstrom (http://www.observer.com/2007/author/lysandra-ohrstrom)
Yesterday, 6:33 pm


http://observer.cast.advomatic.com/files/imagecache/article-teaser/files/starbucksoriginal.jpg (http://www.observer.com/2008/afternoon-wrap-thursday-13)
.kaishan. via flickr

To boost sales Starbucks has revived its original logo of a topless, split-tailed mermaid inspired by Sheela-Na-Gig,"the ancient Celtic figure who terrifies and seduces men by spreading her legs to show her powerful vagina." Back in the day the logo was deemed too sexually suggestive and shelved, but maybe the "vagina dentata" is just what the ubiquitous chain needs to jolt its share price. [Jeremiah's Vanishing New York] (http://vanishingnewyork.blogspot.com/2008/04/starbucks-vagina-dentata.html#links)

Copyright 2008 The New York Observer.

Gregory Tenenbaum
April 11th, 2008, 02:20 PM
by Lysandra Ohrstrom (http://www.observer.com/2007/author/lysandra-ohrstrom)
Yesterday, 6:33 pm


http://observer.cast.advomatic.com/files/imagecache/article-teaser/files/starbucksoriginal.jpg (http://www.observer.com/2008/afternoon-wrap-thursday-13)
.kaishan. via flickr

To boost sales Starbucks has revived its original logo of a topless, split-tailed mermaid inspired by Sheela-Na-Gig,"the ancient Celtic figure who terrifies and seduces men by spreading her legs to show her powerful vagina." Back in the day the logo was deemed too sexually suggestive and shelved, but maybe the "vagina dentata" is just what the ubiquitous chain needs to jolt its share price. [Jeremiah's Vanishing New York] (http://vanishingnewyork.blogspot.com/2008/04/starbucks-vagina-dentata.html#links)

Copyright 2008 The New York Observer.

Thats hilarious. What next? 2 faced girls from India?

Its not attractive, but I do prefer the chocolate color on the cups.

brianac
April 12th, 2008, 07:22 AM
Urbanite (http://weblogs.amny.com/entertainment/urbanite/blog/)

Circa 1971 Starbucks lands in Bryant Park

http://weblogs.amny.com/entertainment/urbanite/blog/starbux.JPG
People gather as free samples of Starbucks' new "everyday" brew Pikes Place Roast are handed out in Bryant Park Tuesday. Starbucks constructed a replica of the original Seattle Pike Place Market Starbucks to celebrate the launch. (Getty)

New Yorkers are crazy about coffee, and Starbucks knows that.

The company that turned “large” into “venti” and the homely cup of joe into a fashion accessory is now making a celebrity out of its new “every day” brew.

At a replica of the original store that was set up in the middle of Bryant Park Tuesday, company representatives gave out samples of “Pike Place Roast,” a single-brewed coffee that will be offered daily in stores across the country. The event was one of a series of tastings that took place simultaneously across the country to mark the launch of the new coffee.

As the event got under way, more than 200 people stood eagerly in the sunshine clutching paper cups. Also on hand was a large crowd of journalists, including seven television crews and more than a dozen photographers. The latter went into a frenzy of snapping worthy of a Hollywood star and yelling “Over here! Over here!” when the company co-founder and CEO Howard Schultz stepped up to the microphone.

“Starbucks is very popular in Japan,” explained Noriaki Takada, reporter for Nippon TV.

By the time the news conference began, Edelman, the public-relations company in charge of the event, had signed in a list of journalists five pages long.

“I’m, like, looking around and thinking, who are all these people?” said Kyrsten Laboda, a Starbucks visual presentation manager who helped set up the replica overnight.

“Ok, it’s getting serious,” said her colleague Brandon Mosby as the speeches were about to begin.

No fewer than eight people took turns on stage, talking bout how amazing Starbucks is.


The event was carefully staged: Journalists who approached the speakers after the speeches were over were forced to conduct their interviews in the presence of an Edelman chaperon.

Amid falling stocks, slowing sales growth and increased competition, Starbucks announced sweeping changes last month in an attempt to re-brand itself and reconnect to its coffee roots.

“We are now going to reinvent brewed coffee,” said Schultz, claiming that Starbucks had already changed how the country viewed coffee before.
All this for coffee? What’s the big deal?

“It’s not just coffee,” he said. So what is it?

Several tasters agreed that the new flavor was less bitter. Master coffee blender Andrew Linnenman said the company had listened to customers, who wanted a coffee that was at the same time bold, smooth, and mild.

“You wanted a coffee that was like a Ferrari, at the price of a Chevette and in the style of a Chevrolet,” he said.

Perhaps it just that New Yorkers have a special relationship with coffee.
Jessyca Escobar and Stephen Flynn, two 19-year-old Hunter College students, skipped classes today to come and taste the new brew and get free bags of coffee beans autographed by Schultz.

Escobar, a self-avowed addict who goes to Starbucks once or twice a day for a venti skinny mocha, said she started drinking more coffee when she arrived in the city a year ago.

Joyce Huang and Sarah Kline, both 25, took the subway over to Bryant Park from work a few stops away after reading about the event online.

Kline theorized that New Yorkers are big coffee drinkers because they have to be.

“There’s a lot to do in New York so you need a lot of energy,” Huang explained.

-- Mathilde Piard

Copyright 2008 AM New York.

The Benniest
July 1st, 2008, 04:48 PM
Starbucks closing 600 stores in the US

THE ASSOCIATED PRESS

Tuesday, July 1st 2008, 3:40 PM

(http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/Seattle)SEATTLE (http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/Seattle) - Starbucks Corp. (http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/Starbucks+Corporation) has announced it's closing 600 underperforming stores in the United States (http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/United+States).

The Seattle-based premium coffee company also announced Tuesday it expects to open fewer than 200 new company-operated stores in the United States in fiscal 2009.

The company says it will try to place workers from closed stores in remaining Starbucks.

Copyright 2008 New York Daily News

NYC4Life
July 1st, 2008, 07:09 PM
I wonder just how many of those are located here in NYC (Starbucks capital of the World). :rolleyes:

The Benniest
July 1st, 2008, 07:49 PM
...or Seattle. ;)

tommyguy
July 4th, 2008, 03:34 PM
If you believe in the 'collective consciousness' (I do) I'd say Starbucks is in big trouble. I've had this feeling for a while now. I was a loyal Starbucks' patron for years, both in New York and across the USA plus Canada. Before trips I'd actually go to the Starbucks site and use the store locator to find where the Starbucks were located in the area I was visiting. But then, I don't know what happened, I began to not like Starbucks. Now I'm a Dunkin Donuts regular. The coffee and doughnuts are better -- the cappuccino just as good -- but it's not just that. Starbucks began to seem pretentious, elitist and phony. Dunkin Donuts seems more real, somehow saner. Actually hipper in a funky DD kinda way. They don't seem as customer-oriented as at Starbucks, but at Starbucks the "friendliness" also seems totally phony. So who needs it?

The final straw for me was twofold. 1) Everytime I've eaten a Starbucks sandwich I have gotten mildly nauseous afterwards.

2) A barista (I loathe that word) saw me adding sugar to a cappuccino and told me I should tell them when they make it. That they'd be glad to add the sugar for me. So the first time I asked a barista could she add two sugars to my cappuccino. She said, "We don't do that sir. You have to add the sugar" and she pointed out where it was. But she said it in a snotty 'ef you' kinda way. Like I'd somehow insulted her, like she was nothing more than a Dunkin Donuts drone. Then her 'sidekick' got involved. She wanted to ring me up and asked if I'd ordered: "Small, medium or large?" She also said it with attitude. Again, like I was a dork who thought he was in Dunkin Donuts. When I got my "beverage" the cup felt empty. I pried open the lid and saw there were only about two fingers of cappuccino in the bottom of the cup, the rest was foam, about 90%. I coulda drank it in one slurp. What do you do with the foam? And for $3,50? When I complained the barista began to explain to me what a cappuccino was.

Later, on Starbucks' own site, I discovered a cappuccino should be about one-third liquid. I figured the baris.....ah screw it....the server ( :D ) had made the drink that way to "teach me a lesson." As my babe would say, "That bitch!"

It's not as big a deal to me as I'm probably making it sound. But since then, when I want coffee, I find myself not going to Starbucks. Not like I'm boycotting Starbucks, I just don't feel like Starbucks.

That's what I meant about the collective consciousness. Like there's many people out there who suddenly don't feel like Starbucks either.

stache
July 4th, 2008, 05:57 PM
Back before I quit drinking coffee entirely (maybe ten years ago), I had started noticing that Starbuck's regular American coffee had begun to taste horrible, so I switched to lattes mainly. Now if I go there to meet a friend I order a tea or get a soda. Sometimes I go there for a sandwich which I find to be ok. I would never go there for carryout unless I was desperate.

The Benniest
July 4th, 2008, 10:07 PM
I agree. Where I used to live in the Old Market (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Market) of Omaha, Nebraska, there was a Starbucks up the street and friends and I would go there after school. We made the mistake one night (finals ... :confused:) to order takeout.

Haven't ordered food there since... and that was 7 years ago.

BrooklynRider
July 5th, 2008, 12:35 AM
Starbucks closing 600 stores is a very big deal and speaks volumes about the state of the economy.

It would be nice if they would just lose the stupid Starbucks language: Grande, Vente, etc. Just give me small, medium or large. And, liste, you're not a Barista, you work at the coffee counter. You are in a position equal to the guy giving me a large Pepsi and the movie snack bar.

stache
July 5th, 2008, 02:02 AM
At least they get health coverage. :)

Gregory Tenenbaum
July 5th, 2008, 06:06 AM
Just down the road from my section of Tokyo alone, there are 4 or 5 Starbucks Coffees.

There are also dozens of clones in the neighborhood,

Cafe Velocce

Excelsior Cafe

Doutor

(On another note, CBGBs Tokyo - yes it lives!)

stache
July 5th, 2008, 06:30 AM
When did you move to Japan?

tommyguy
July 5th, 2008, 11:04 AM
As stache mentioned, I do give Starbucks high marks for providing health coverage to employees. :cool:

TunaBagel
August 4th, 2008, 10:59 AM
Now, that's the topic that made me finally register here...

I went to a Starbucks in Colgone yesterday and that was very... German.

I used to live in CT for a while and lately I have been really missing the US. So I gave it a try and went in to Starbucks because it reminds me of the US and... well, it didn't help much because of all these forever grumpy employees. It's still... Germany. Even if it says Starbucks on it. Damn.

I miss NYC.

Gregory Tenenbaum
August 25th, 2008, 11:41 PM
Yeah, Europe really sucks with all that great food and all.

Just do what many before you have done and escape.

If your high taxes will actually allow you to.

Hell, why not just vote in a new layer of government and call it the Super EU.

Then you can become the Super EU Minister for Starbucks and enjoy your coffee.

ZippyTheChimp
January 28th, 2009, 08:44 PM
Starbucks to Cut 6,700 Jobs
After Earnings Fall 69%

By Courtney Dentch

Jan. 28 (Bloomberg) -- Starbucks Corp., the world’s largest chain of coffee shops, said it will cut 6,700 jobs and close 300 more stores after reporting first-quarter profit that fell more than analysts estimated.

The company plans to close 200 locations in the U.S. and 100 overseas, in addition to the 600 Starbucks said it would close last year. The workforce reduction will eliminate 6,000 café positions and 700 corporate jobs, the Seattle-based chain said today in a statement.

Chief Executive Officer Howard Schultz warned in December that Starbucks’ profit would be less than analysts’ estimates at the time as sales in established stores worsened in November. Customers pinched by job losses and falling home prices are cutting back on premium coffee. The firings and closings announced today further accelerate Schultz’s plan to trim costs.

Schultz also asked the board to cut his annual base pay to less than $10,000, or the minimum required to maintain benefits for him and his family, spokeswoman Deb Trevino said today in a telephone interview. His base pay was about $1.2 million in 2008. Starbucks is also selling a corporate jet, bringing the fleet to one plane following a similar sale late last year.

“The only grown-up attitude and thing for them to do in this environment” is to adjust to the declining revenue, Sharon Zackfia, an analyst with William Blair & Co. in Chicago, said today in a Bloomberg Television interview. “You have to give this company credit for coming up with ways to bolster their margin even though same-store sales are down.”

Trimming Expenses

The additional measures increase the company’s plan to trim costs by $100 million this year, to at least $500 million, Starbucks said. Starbucks may save more next year as the store closings take effect, Chief Financial Officer Troy Alstead said on a conference call.

Sales at U.S. stores open at least 13 months dropped 10 percent in the first quarter. The company had a total of 16,875 stores, including franchised locations, as of Dec. 28.

“The pace of weakening in the business environment and the global economy has been accelerating,” Schultz said on the conference call today. “I’m far from pleased with our performance this quarter and I anticipate that our results could remain under pressure until the economy begins to recover.”

Starbucks rose 50 cents to $9.65 today in Nasdaq Stock Market composite trading. The stock has lost 51 percent in the past 12 months.

‘Slow Drip’

The coffee seller in July said it would close 600 company- operated stores in the U.S. and 61 shops in Australia. The move slashed 12,000 café positions, although about 70 percent of workers were able to transfer to nearby locations, resulting in about 3,600 jobs lost.

Net income dropped 69 percent to $64.3 million, or 9 cents a share, from $208.1 million, or 28 cents, a year earlier, the company said in the statement. Sales fell 5.5 percent to $2.6 billion in the period ended Dec. 28.

Excluding some restructuring costs, profit was 15 cents a share. The average of 16 analyst estimates compiled by Bloomberg was for profit of 17 cents a share on sales of $2.71 billion. The company doesn’t give quarterly forecasts.

The store closings announced last year are still being implemented, and the shutterings announced today will be carried out through the year that ends in September, Starbucks said. Half of the corporate cuts announced today will come from Seattle.

“I’m hoping 300 stores is enough, and that they’ve done what they need to do,” said Patty Edwards, a retail analyst with Storehouse Partners in Seattle. “Slow drip, even in coffee, isn’t necessarily the best thing. Sometimes you just need to get the pain over with.”

To contact the reporter on this story: Courtney Dentch in New York at cdentch1@bloomberg.net.
Last Updated: January 28, 2009 19:19 EST

Alonzo-ny
January 29th, 2009, 06:33 AM
Im sorry about the people who will lose their jobs but I cant help but be pleased about this. Im just waiting for the bank branches to close as well.

195Broadway
January 29th, 2009, 09:01 AM
There is a mom and pop coffee shop here that is doing just fine in a town full of SB's.

Ninjahedge
January 29th, 2009, 09:15 AM
Im sorry about the people who will lose their jobs but I cant help but be pleased about this. Im just waiting for the bank branches to close as well.

100% on you there.

Unfortunately, they have already forced many "mom and pop" shops out for much too long for them to come back and fill the gap.

I am seeing many more blank storefronts than usual. I would rather have SOMETHING in there than nothing, but I am also happy seeing the greedy landlords sitting there with open square footage just because they thought they could get a name brand retailer/bank/etc over what they had in there for XX years.

I am wondering, however, how long will it be before lobbyists and the recession convince the NYC Legislature to allow the opening of Wal Mart in the city.

No, I am not looking forward to it. I dread it more than the first Home Depot I saw in Manhattan. But seeing how desperation can breed decay, I think it is only a matter of time before we sell out....

Alonzo-ny
January 29th, 2009, 01:09 PM
Greed is definitely not good. A greedy person is soulless.

Bronxbombers
January 29th, 2009, 11:54 PM
I have been going to Starbucks Coffee mostly in Los Angeles since the early 1990's. I will go to 1 Starbucks Coffee location in New York City while I will back east this summer on vacation.