25 Thames St - Downtown Hotel

[billyblancoNYC]

European firm buys downtown site

In another example of international money pouring into Manhattan real estate, a European firm has grabbed a development site within steps of the World Trade Center.

Thames Greenwich LLC recently bought 133-135 Greenwich St. for $24 million.

The deal is scheduled to close in January. The new owners will develop a 30-story luxury condo tower on the site. The seller, YL Real Estate Developers, will retain a small interest in the project.

http://www.crainsny.com/news.cms?id=9410

[Gulcrapek]

Cool... what's there now?

[ZippyTheChimp]

It's between Cedar and Thames Sts, across from Deutsche Bank. I think the only open retail is O'Hara's restaurant/bar (nice place). Thames St between Greenwich and Church has been under a scaffold since 09/11, and none of the retail has ever reopened after 09/11.

The area is very depressed now, but should improve considerably once Deutsche Bank comes down. I wonder if the developer will wait until demolition is complete.

There's a good looking building (Romanesque Revival I think) across the street undergoing renovation.

[londonlawyer]

There was an article about this in the Post a few weeks ago. It's a shame in my opinion because the building on the site is nice. It would have been great if the developers built on a site that contains garbage. For example, I desparately want to see the horrible, run-down structures on the west side of B'Way just north of Liberty Plaza razed. They are such horrible, run-down eyesores. They'll eventually get razed, but sooner rather than later would be nice.

[TLOZ Link5]

There was an article about this in the Post a few weeks ago. It's a shame in my opinion because the building on the site is nice. It would have been great if the developers built on a site that contains garbage. For example, I desparately want to see the horrible, run-down structures on the west side of B'Way just north of Liberty Plaza razed. They are such horrible, run-down eyesores. They'll eventually get razed, but sooner rather than later would be nice.

Agreed on the buildings north of 1 LP. In my opinion, U.S. Steel should have bought up that block instead of demolishing the splendid Singer Tower. A taller building there (obviously a potential building there would not have taken up the whole site) would have been an interesting juxtaposition to the former Twin Towers, and helped to integrate them into the skyline.

[londonlawyer]

Agreed. The demolition of the Singer building is a crime that ranks up there with the savage destruction of Penn Station.

I think that Goldman should have built on the B'Way site in question. It would have been an easier location to get to than BPC, and it would have resulted in the demolition of that "basura" at the site. Eventually, some one will tear those dumpy buildings down, but let's hope that it's sooner rather than ltr.

[NewYorkYankee]

Can someone post pics of these 'decrepit' buildings?

[londonlawyer]

The thing that's a real shame about them is that they could have been nice if they weren't so neglected. One of the was built in 1865 and based upon photos from the turn of the century, it was quite attractive in its day. Some of the buildings on this site could be restored and incorporated into the facade of something new; that would be ideal.

[ZippyTheChimp]

Are you talking about Broadway or the site at Greenwich?

Funny, I can't picture 133-135 Greenwich, except at street level - although I've gone by there hundreds of times.

[londonlawyer]

I'm talking about the B'Way site; it's a shame that those buildings are so decrepit.

[ZippyTheChimp]

The nice buildings on Greenwich are not being taken for this project. They are on the northern end off Cedar St. O'Hara's and the deli (that coincidentally relocated from 135 Greenwich) will stay.

Now I know why I couldn't picture the building at 133, 135 - there isn't any. It looks like a building was torn down on the past and replaced by crappy one-storey retail.

The lot is quite narrow, no more than 50-60 feet, and runs about half-way to Trinity Pl.

[londonlawyer]

There's a really beautiful building on Greenwich next to this one which is not being razed. The red brick building that is being torn down, however, is a decent building. I would have preferred seeing horrible buildings come down to make way for new development (e.g., the aforementioned wrecks on B'Way or the site on Liberty where the Burger King is).

[ZippyTheChimp]

Are you sure you are not talking about another block?
133-135 Greenwich are not buildings - they are one storey stores on the NE corner of Greenwich and Thames.

[londonlawyer]

According to The Post, the building that's being razed is 8 or 9 stories. There's a building of that decsription with scaffolding all around it.

By the way, where do you live in BPC? I used to live at 250 S. End.

[gonzea]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v488/gonzea/DSCF0031.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v488/gonzea/DSCF0084.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v488/gonzea/DSCF0083.jpg

[londonlawyer]

Thnx for posting those photos. The red brick building in the first photo is now covered in scaffolding, and I believe that it's being demolished for this project.

[ZippyTheChimp]

I'm at 377 Rector Pl

Timely photos gonzea. Now I can straighten this out. I don't know how the Post could have screwed this up.

The red brick building in photo 1 is 4 Albany St (at Washington St), owned by Deutsche Bank. It is covered in scaffolding and all the window openings are plywood covered. One of the contractor signs at the site is PAL Environmental Safety. It is not on the same block as the subject of this thread.

133-135 Greenwich can barely be seen in photo 2 (yellow Checks sign). There are a few 3 storey buildings further up Thames. They are vacant, and if included in the project, the site will be about 60 x 100 ft. The tan wall to the left is Corbet & Conley (deli) and O'Hara's (bar) - not coming down.

The white-with-stripes building in the center occupies the rest of the block to Trinity. It was owned by NYU and is now the High School of Finance - not coming down.

[londonlawyer]

There's some confusion (perhaps caused by me)! The NY Post article related to the Albany street plot, and it claimed to be owned by Deutsche Bank. After I read the article in Nov., I went by the address listed therein, and it was that red brick building.

[gonzea]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v488/gonzea/DSCF0032.jpg


here is one takes 2 months ago looking up from carlisle st and washington with albany st toward the back. I will be taking some new photos within days and post as soon as i can. I will be taking photos of all the subject spots we are talking about.
gonzea-

[TLOZ Link5]

Aawww, that's kind of a nice building. :(

[NewYorkYankee]

Which one? The tall one? Or the shorter one in the front?

[TLOZ Link5]

Which one? The tall one? Or the shorter one in the front?

The tall one is none other than the Deutsche Bank building. The shorter one is what I was referring to.

[londonlawyer]

It's possible that there are two residential towers being built -- one on Albany St. on the site of the brick building and one on Greenwich St. Considering that the Deutsche Bank building will be a park for quite some time, this will be a nice location, as these two sites will be at the foot of that park.

[londonlawyer]

I just walked by this site, and the guys at the red, brick building on Albay Street confirmed that it's being demolished.

[NewYorkYankee]

Which one? The tall one? Or the shorter one in the front?

The tall one is none other than the Deutsche Bank building. The shorter one is what I was referring to.

I apologize, I didnt recognize it.

[ZippyTheChimp]

I have information on the 4 Albany St building, and 130 Cedar St ,from the BPC Broadsheet. I'll start new threads since they are slated for development.

[Derek2k3]

25 Thames Street
133-135 Greenwich Street/21-29 Thames Street
33 stories 368 feet
Costas Kondylis & Partners
Residential Condominium
101 units 145,648 Sq. Ft.
Dev-Thames Greenwich LLC/Greenwich Street Project LLC
Proposed 2005-?

http://www.pbase.com/archit_kderek2k3/image/42753713.jpg

http://www.mapquest.com/maps/map.adp?ovi=1&zoom=9&mapdata=kqnq0HTj%2froFOOLFlWDG0VdAQO19aT7RHlCYf1g3 HG8WQ6vkPSXczUcdCE84cpZfyPOSqRLnoGjsv%2bRb8i8%2byQ FDzvJ2nS97GYlSQYXo%2bDLDscCKozXyQZyWCxJLfi%2bsgsjq zZb1WyqN3c7eiUITMwsXvltu%2fyE33Y81%2bQLhFOcIRLI7El YfyLfnOBBPmLIDHX%2fm8YSc7WafSdm0qjYz6TfhNPNMsHpsJm gnrZUxOQmP%2bwY%2fn%2boAQpX8LmOSIm71cVSLY6GN0CkQll GRQ2cKebAznZkIyzstvZoN4FscMtX5I27bHyGumUpZRg8yKvWA RfoprZwgYGC0yV9tR3tyZEfH1a%2fikrnZVGEVcQWjyu09jixR Apo4LxGfMo%2bDjqW%2f4tKgaYOUV2PB%2bLAN0MAdL%2fUvB6 jPR6CYsw0anhlvSH3oUBS2UyP1MXC1XnV%2fYkVn%2bCDCrZSv Z3x7gLXIQtZEJ8wYvuGh8vR3zBNQ773oziZmBy2%2fhcm5pjbz XmyLbuQWfCGruYU1CLQ%3d
Map

[Edward]

The site of 25 Thames Street is behind the beige building in the center. 11 September 2005.

http://www.wirednewyork.com/real_estate/25thames/25thames_ground_zero.jpg (http://www.wirednewyork.com/real_estate/25thames/)

[BrooklynRider]

Any new building going up around that regretful pit is welcome.

The interesting juxtaposition is the new residential building going up as that contaminated building comes down next to it.

How do you market that? One month's free rent, life-time anti-biotics and on-site chemotherapy?

[ZippyTheChimp]

http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/5365/25thames01c9sr.th.jpg (http://img217.imageshack.us/my.php?image=25thames01c9sr.jpg)

http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/7936/25thames02c8dp.th.jpg (http://img217.imageshack.us/my.php?image=25thames02c8dp.jpg).

[londonlawyer]

Let's hope that it's not another box like the one that Monian is developing down the street. Does anyone know if the old brownish brick building with the Irish pub in it will be part of this site? I hope not. It's a nice old building.

[Derek2k3]

Yea that's coming down too. Don't expect too much being that this is designed by Costas Kondylis.

[londonlawyer]

Yea that's coming down too. Don't expect too much being that this is designed by Costas Kondylis.

That sucks.

[ZippyTheChimp]

Unless something has changed recently, the building next door is not part of the project. It would be cruel irony, since the Corbet & Conley moved there when they had to leave 25 Thames.

The building is in good shape; it just needs the roof cornice to be restored. I hope O'Hara survives all these changes. It's a nice bar with an upstairs room. We had a company reunion party scheduled there for Oct, 2001. That obviously didn't happen. I was looking for another place the following summer, when I noticed a sign at Trinity and Cedar. The street was closed, but O'Hara was reopened. I never would have thought it survived the destruction.

The footprint is small, so at least the tower won't be fat.

[Derek2k3]

no its not
Yea, you're right. I looked up the wrong address, but I swore i saw scaffolding on the whole building last time I passed. O well, my mistake.

[pianoman11686]

Anyone know what's going on in those dreadful looking, dark greyish, 2-3 story brick buildings across the street from O'Hara's? They don't seem to have any street level presence. Someone should burn those down and put up something...nicer.

[sambattry]

http://thecoppergroup.com/images/cooper_006b.jpg

[londonlawyer]

It looks like the building with the Irish pub on the north corner will not be demolished. That's good news.

[antinimby]

Nice. Costas you're alright.

Good job, sambattry and welcome.

[ZippyTheChimp]

http://thecoppergroup.com/images/cooper_006a.jpg

http://thecoppergroup.com/index.html

[antinimby]

Here's a larger version of the same rendering:

http://thecoppergroup.com/images/home_image.jpg

I hope the site contamination doesn't stop this project.

[antinimby]

I just love seeing this kind of transformation. An empty lot or one with empty junk buildings replaced by more purposeful buildings. From this company's website (The Copper Group Inc.). (http://thecoppergroup.com/projects.html)

Before
http://thecoppergroup.com/images/cooper_007a.jpg

After
http://thecoppergroup.com/images/cooper_007c.jpg

[BrooklynRider]

Landscaping is always a heartening sight.

[ablarc]

It'd be nice if the "landscaping" extended to some kind of treatment of that exposed wall. Maybe grow ivy on it?

[infoshare]

http://gis.nyc.gov/doitt/mp/Address.do

This may be helpful to anyone who may want to visit the constuction site. And an excellent website to know about; you can "plot" the location of any address/building in NYC. The website also provides detailed "lot" info - FAR, lot size, type, ect. - and more. Enjoy.

[Peakrate212]

I hope the site contamination doesn't stop this project.

What site contamination?

When are they starting to build this thing?

[lofter1]

ahem ... what do the top 3 posts on this page have to do with the Thames St. project?

[antinimby]

What site contamination?
When are they starting to build this thing?Go back to page 2, post 30.

ahem ... what do the top 3 posts on this page have to do with the Thames St. project?The same company's website did the renderings for both projects. It was an interesting project I found there that I thought I should share, that's all.

[ZippyTheChimp]

Demolition is complete. Construction appears to be starting at 4 Albany St (http://www.wirednewyork.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5526&page=3&highlight=albany).

[antinimby]

http://thecoppergroup.com/images/home_image1.jpg

http://thecoppergroup.com/images/cooper_006d.jpg

http://thecoppergroup.com/images/cooper_006e.jpg

[antinimby]

Here's the summary again, I changed the status to u/c


25 Thames Street
133-135 Greenwich Street/21-29 Thames Street
33 stories 368 feet
Costas Kondylis & Partners
Residential Condominium
101 units 145,648 Sq. Ft.
Dev-Thames Greenwich LLC/Greenwich Street Project LLC
Under Construction

[krulltime]

Great new renderings!!!

Are you sure is under construction? I though 4 Albany was...


http://www.pbase.com/image/59639414.jpg

[antinimby]

^ I'm assuming that after demolition, construction should start very soon if not already, right? ;)

[ZippyTheChimp]

I doubt there'll be any trees on Thames St.

[Gulcrapek]

The base is kinda sad. The tower, though it may be a good rendering, is better than average for Kondylis... but it's probably the rendering. There's also the issue of what that rear taller section looks like on the other side.

[antinimby]

Are you sure is under construction?I guess I was right.:D


Construction starting on condo tower at 133 Greenwich Street 08-MAY-06

The Copper Group is developing a 30-story residential condominium tower at 133 Greenwich Street, which is also known as 25 Thames Streeet near Ground Zero.
Costas Kondylis is the architect.

The building will have a low-rise base on Greenwich street with a setback tower with pierrs that extend slightly above the top on three facades.

It will have about 100 apartments.

The site was acquired last year by an investor group led by Hosea Deitsch and Edgar Bronfman for $20 million from YL Real Estate Developers, which reportedly will retain a small interest in the project.

Mr. Deitsch is managing member of the Cooper Group 1 LLC, which is part of Greenwich Street Project LLC, which is developing the site.

The site is to the south of O’Hara’s Bar on Cedar Street and it is near the Deutsche Bank building that is being demolished because of damage sustained in the September 11, 2001 terrorist attacks on Lower Manhattan.

The Department of Environment Protection earlier this year revoked a demolition permit for the site because of concerns over possible toxic hazards, but after studies the work was resumed and demolition has been completed.

Copyright © 1994-2006 CITY REALTY.COM INC.

[jeffpark]

What are they going to do with the lot were –the Dutch bank- is now.

Who is marketing the condos 133 Greenwich?

[Derek2k3]

Some Demolition/Construction pics from mid-March. (http://testofwill.blogspot.com/2006/04/long-awaited-demo.html)

[Kenny H]

I heard this development is back on the market. Anybody hear about this or know where I can find the listing?

[krulltime]

So this is not under construction? Oh man, what is up with that? I like this one.

[Kenny H]

I was there today. Nothing going on.

[kz1000ps]

6/16.. in Buffalo this would be called "shovel ready"

http://img440.imageshack.us/img440/5637/img5165em5.jpg

[sfenn1117]

Florida developer plans Ground Zero-area hotel

Boca Raton-based E.B. Developers plans to build a hotel next to Ground Zero in Lower Manhattan. The firm recently purchased a development site at 133 Greenwich Street from the Cooper Group for $45 million, according to public records.

The Cooper Group, a consortium of Israeli-based investors, purchased 133 Greenwich for $20 million in 2005 and announced it would construct a 30-story condo on the site, which was formerly home to two low-rise buildings.

E.B. said its plans for a hotel rather than a condo on the 91,635-buildable-square-foot parcel make sense given Ground Zero's heavy foot traffic and the fact that the site is a draw for tourists.

"We're going to build a luxury-plus hotel there," said Michael Scheiner, a vice president at E.B. "Over 5 million people a year are expected to visit the site."

E.B.'s hotel will overlook the memorial park at Ground Zero and face the tower JPMorgan Chase intends to build.

Scheiner said the hotel will be "the first of many entries for E.B. into the New York market." The firm has been building residential properties in Florida for 17 years and has developed hotels in Orlando.

E.B. has retained Jones Lang LaSalle Hotels as its adviser on the project, which will likely rise slightly higher than the 30 stories that the Cooper Group had planned. An operator for the property has yet to be chosen, but Scheiner said "there are a hundred names interested, including your Starwoods, your InterContinentals, your Le Meridiens."

Scheiner said that though a groundbreaking date has yet to be set, the development is "on the fast track." By Gabby Warshawer

http://www.therealdeal.net/breaking_news/2007/07/17/1184696708.php

[londonlawyer]

This sucks. I hoped that the horrible building on Trinity Street, which is for sale and which is adjacent to this site, would have been purchased and incorporated into this project. That building, which was a public H.S. is such a dump!

[antinimby]

This sucks.No it doesn't.

The new owners sound like they will reconfigure the design to make the tower slimmer and slightly taller than the previous Kondylis design, so that is good news.

You've got stop thinking just because some sites are left out doesn't mean they won't be redeveloped in the future.

In new developments, small footprints are a good thing whereas large ones encompassing an entire blockfront are not.

[sfenn1117]

I wonder why the original developers didn't just go through with the condo plan. With around 15 hotels in development downtown, it's getting to the point of overkill.

[ZippyTheChimp]

Changed thread title.

[macreator]

I wonder why the original developers didn't just go through with the condo plan. With around 15 hotels in development downtown, it's getting to the point of overkill.

A lot of those hotels are McSam lowend hotels --- there is still a market for a highend hotel tower like these developers seem intent on building.

[ZippyTheChimp]

Good Grief, Another Hotel for Lower Manhattan

by Mark Wellborn Published: July 17, 2007

This article was published in the July 22, 2007, edition of The New York Observer.

It’s a testament to the revival of lower Manhattan in so many ways that the following is routine, rather than surprising: Florida-based EB Developers plan a 280-room four-star hotel on a plot it recently bought for $45 million at 133 Greenwich Street, just south of the World Trade Center site.

Nearby, Joseph Moinian is building a 53-story W Hotel and condominium complex at 123 Washington Street, and plans are in the works for a 38-room boutique hotel at 50 Trinity Place as well as for a Sam Chang hotel at 33 Beekman Street.

“Downtown is an extremely hot market for hotels right now,” EB Developers Vice President and General Counsel Daniel Kaskel told The Observer. “At one point, we discussed a hotel with condos on top, but because of the location, we decided that keeping the building a hotel is the best use for this area.”

Mr. Kaskel said construction will start in six months and be completed in about two years. Like any ambitious developer, however, the company is lobbying for additional development rights that could hold the process up.

“We are working on securing further rights that could increase the scope of the project, but we should have most if not all of the outstanding issues finalized within a few months,” Mr. Kaskel said.


http://www.observer.com/2007/good-grief-another-hotel-lower-manhattan

Copyright © 2007 The New York Observer. All rights reserved.

[BrooklynRider]

The hotel portion of the project was recently awarded to an Interior Design firm. The project is moving forward.

[GreenwichBoy]

High-rise for Financial District

A new, 33-story hotel in the Financial District is set to start construction this summer at 133 Greenwich St. after the developer recently received a nearly $40 million pre-construction loan for the site.


The 242-unit hotel is to be operated by the San Francisco-based Kimpton Hotel & Restaurant Group in an area also known as Greenwich Street South and will include meeting spaces, a health club, a bar and lounge, and a restaurant on the 32nd floor.


The project, near the corner of Thames St. just south of the World Trade Center site, will sit around the block from the 55-story, 220-unit W Hotel at 123 Washington St. currently under construction.


Multi Capital Group arranged for the $39.1 million pre-construction loan with Florida-based EB Developers earlier this month to join with the spate of new hotel projects slated to go up Downtown over the next few years.


The Downtown Alliance counts just over 3,700 new hotel rooms are currently under construction, planned or proposed for Lower Manhattan, with opening dates from now through 2010.

From: Downtown Express

[ZippyTheChimp]

No K-word.

That's a relief.

[BrooklynRider]

27 Stories + mechanical penthouse. Same design firm as 85 West Broadway (Smyth Tribeca).

[krulltime]

^ So I guess it won't look the same as the previous renderings on this thread? I sort of like that one.

[antinimby]

I guess the number of floors and presumably, the height have been reduced from the initial proposal.