The New York City Subway [Archive] - Page 4

Merry

December 21st, 2010, 08:29 AM

In the City’s Subway, Literary Placards Will Soon Be Mere Echoes in the Memory

By MICHAEL M. GRYNBAUM

First, poetry disappeared from the subway. Now prose is on the way out, too.

Train of Thought, the program that placed literary quotations from the likes of Kafka and Schopenhauer in the unlikely locale of a packed New York City subway car, is being removed, two years after it assumed the mantle of subterranean high culture from Poetry in Motion. In its stead is a new promotional campaign by the Metropolitan Transportation Authority that is intended to highlight recent improvements to the transit system. A spokesman for the authority said there was not enough space for both.

The loss of the literary placards, which have offered a reprieve from the usual advertising array of laser acne treatments and injury lawyers, marks the first time in 18 years that the subways will not feature a pinch of erudition. Poetry in Motion, the original verse-only series that spawned popular books and copycats in other cities, ran from 1992 to 2008, before being succeeded by the current program.

But Train of Thought, which broadened the author pool from poets to historians, philosophers and scientists, apparently did not achieve the canonical status of its predecessor. The authority chose not to renew a contract with the program’s sponsor, the quiz show “Jeopardy!,” and the series is not likely to return, according to an authority spokesman.

This is a city where comebacks can never be ruled out: witness Williamsburg, the Second Avenue subway and Andrew M. Cuomo, the governor-elect. Indeed, transit officials say there may still be a place in the future for poetry in the subway, but those discussions have not yet occurred.

For Jane Tylus, however, the writing — as it were — was on the wall. Dr. Tylus, a professor of Italian at New York University, is in charge of picking the quotes for the Train of Thought series, and she said her recent conversations with the transportation authority had not boded well.

“We gave them another round of quotes in late October,” Dr. Tylus said, but so far she has not seen them on the subway. (Among the missing selections are excerpts from Rilke, T. S. Eliot and the second-century Greek philosopher Epictetus.) “I am concerned this may well be the last round, if it goes up at all,” she said in a telephone interview.

Officials at the authority said that, for now, they needed the space to showcase their newly redesigned customer service ads. The new campaign replaces the “Going Your Way” and “Sub Talk” mottos with a new slogan, “Improving, Nonstop,” and showcases digital countdown clocks and the installation of new security cameras, among other initiatives.

Jeremy Soffin, a spokesman for the authority, said the agency wanted a cleaner, more consistent way to let riders know about its revitalization efforts. “A decision was made to move ahead with this campaign, which is focused on communicating with our customers with the space we have to do that,” he said.

Asked about the future of the program, Mr. Soffin said, “What follows is yet to be determined.”

Still, the agency’s own prose is not quite, well, poetry. “If it’s broke, fix it,” proclaims one placard promoting a pragmatic approach to station maintenance. Compare that to one of Dr. Tylus’s picks, still unseen, from T. S. Eliot’s “Four Quartets”:

Footfalls echo in the memory
Down the passage which we did not take
Towards the door we never opened
Into the rose garden.

Gene Russianoff, an advocate for riders, said he preferred the more artistic option.
“I don’t begrudge them wanting to put their best foot forward,” he said. “But if it comes at the price of permanently kiboshing the poetry, I think that’s a mistake.”

The original Poetry in Motion campaign began in 1992, inspired by a similar program on the London Underground. Appearing in a grittier time for the subway system, the poems were an immediate smash, earning segments on NPR as well as CNN, where the project was dubbed “verse in the most adverse of conditions.”

Today, remnants of Poetry in Motion still exist, thanks to bus advertisements purchased by the Poetry Society of America, which has raised money to keep the moniker alive in New York and other transit markets.

One recent selection by the group seemed particularly timely: “Death-bed of a Financier,” by Stevie Smith, which begins, “Deal not with me God as I have dealt with Man / In the prosperity which thou hast given me.”

“It was such a bulwark, such an anchor in our day,” said Alice Quinn, the group’s executive director and a former poetry editor at The New Yorker.

Still, the consumption of literature is often a silent, contemplative activity, so support for the program can be difficult to gauge. “I can’t say I’ve gotten tons of e-mails thanking us for doing this,” Dr. Tylus said.

“The subway is not the kind of place you go to have your spirit uplifted,” she added. “But I know, in at least a few cases, that is what happened.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/21/nyregion/21poetry.html?_r=1&ref=nyregion

scumonkey

December 21st, 2010, 01:25 PM

Too bad...I'd rather read the poetry than an ad about what the MTA has been up to.
Just another small example of our state of less.

lofter1

December 21st, 2010, 01:31 PM

The MTA should stop touting all their so-called improvements -- real or otherwise -- and fix the damned Metrocard mess. My cards keep going bad and I'm told the only thing I can do about it is to mail them in to the MTA and then wait for the pay back (it takes them about 3 months to give back the money they hold on the dead card).

And, no ... the card doesn't go bad because it rubs up against another card or something metal -- I keep it in its own dedicated sleeve on the outer part of my wallet. The cards are problematic and the MTA is taking its own sweet time to remedy the situation -- after all, it allows them to hold on to money that isn't theirs and can't be used by the purchaser.

Ninjahedge

December 21st, 2010, 01:39 PM

They need to do the same as the Path Train. The cards that you pay $10 to get to start and can fill up with different rides (monthly, 40 pass cards, 20 pass card, etc).

As for the advertisements, they are a waste of space. I do not think they will get ANYBODY to start riding the subway that has not before because of the improvements.

You will also not get people to stop complaining about the fare hikes (although the rates are sucstantially lower than in other countries. Japan for example).

I would like to see the reason why they need to tell us about security cameras. I would like to know [/i]why[/i] they need to talk about the timers. If you need to know, most likely you do not HAVE them and it is meaningless to you.

NO WAIT WAIT! I HAS TO TELL MY GRANDMOTHER SHE CAN RIDEZ THE SUBWAYZ NOW THAT THERE ARE CAMERAZ!!!!!!

:rolleyes:

stache

December 22nd, 2010, 07:33 AM

PATH smart cards are $10.00 to start now?

Ninjahedge

December 22nd, 2010, 08:06 AM

I think so, i will have to check (it was a good round number like $5 or $10).

It sounds odd, but you have much more respect for something when you pay that much for it. I have had mine for a good 14 months now after leaving the city (job). I had to fill it up with my leftover transit $$ or lose it.

I lost most of it (I forgot.... :( ).

But still, one card, keep it in a billfold and wave it over the sensor. Works much better than a mechanical feed on a paper card with a mag strip.....

stache

December 22nd, 2010, 11:00 AM

I think they're still $5.00.

Merry

January 13th, 2011, 12:19 AM

Drongos (http://onlineslangdictionary.com/definition+of/drongo).

New York's Subway Replaces Poetry With More Ads

John Lundberg

Walking though New York's second snowstorm in as many weeks Friday morning, past the lingering piles of trash, down into the gritty, wet and steamy subway tunnels, I could have used a little inspiration. But unlike last year, I wouldn't find it underground. The city's popular "Train of Thought" program (formerly "Poetry in Motion"), which sought to brighten the subway commute with a little poetry and poignant prose, has been replaced by ads promoting the MTA's own achievements. And so commuters learn that track work is progressing nicely at the Fulton Street Station, and a dreary January morning remains a dreary January morning. Contrast this with the London Underground, which last week celebrated the 25th anniversary of "Poems on the Underground." Every season, the British Council Art Group selects six poems to make the Underground seem a little less underground. This season's selections address the value of the written word and include the well-known opening lines from John Keats' "Endymion." A good choice for the "gloomy days" of winter, readers will no doubt think of the tunnels they're coursing through when they consider the "o'er darkened ways made for our searching":

A thing of beauty is a joy forever:
Its loveliness increases it will never
Pass into nothingness; but still will keep
A bower quiet for us, and a sleep
Full of sweet dreams, and health,
And quiet breathing.

Therefore, on every morrow, are we wreathing
A flowery band to bind us to the earth,
Spite of despondence, of the inhuman dearth
Of noble natures, of the gloomy days,
Of all the unhealthy and o'er-darkened ways
Made for our searching: yes, in spite of all,
Some shape of beauty moves away the pall
From our dark spirits.

"Lines to a Movement in Mozart's E-flat Symphony" is a rare, hopeful poem about spring and love from the usually dour Thomas Hardy:

Show me again the time
When in the Junetide's prime
We flew by meads and mountains northerly!--
Yea, to such freshness, fairness, fullness, fineness, freeness,
Love lures life on...

Show me again just this:
The moments of that kiss
Away from the prancing folk, by the strawberry-tree!--
Yea to such rashness, ratheness, rareness, ripeness, richness,
Love lures life on.

The Council also selected "For the Life of This Planet" by Grace Nichols, "Riddle" by Gerard Benson, a fourth-century translation of "Loving the Rituals" by Palladas, and a Seamus Heaney translation of lines written by Colmcille, a sixth-century Irish saint. Heaney and Nichols, notably, were also featured in the very first set of London Underground poems. You can take a look at all of the new poetry here (http://www.britishcouncil.org/arts-literature-poems-on-the-underground.htm).

Sadly, if you want to read a little poetry on your way into Manhattan, you'll have to bring your own. An archive of 25 years of Tube poetry is available here (http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/corporate/projectsandschemes/artmusicdesign/poems/), and Orion Publishing has put together a few collections (http://www.orionbooks.co.uk/content/search?SearchText=poems+on+the+underground).

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/john-lundberg/subway-poetry-new-york_b_805875.html?ir=New%20York

lofter1

January 13th, 2011, 10:14 AM

Drongos (http://onlineslangdictionary.com/definition+of/drongo).

WNY Word of the Day :D

Stroika

January 13th, 2011, 06:56 PM

That's ludicrous! On most trains, the ads don't fill up the entire available space above the train windows (this may not be the case on the Lex Ave line, which I haven't been on in a while, but elsewhere this is certainly so).

It's reminiscent of when a developer knocks down a prewar architectural gem next to an empty parking lot in order to build something on the site of the gem but not the lot -- why not deal with the empty space you have before you seize real estate for something new? Of course, in the case of actual real estate, the lot does belong to an owner who may or may not be selling, as does the prewar gem. In the case of the subway, all of that space, whether empty or adorned with poetry, falls under the MTA's aegis. Sheesh.

Ninjahedge

January 17th, 2011, 07:45 AM

Are you calling Dr. Zizmore an empty lot?

Stroika

January 18th, 2011, 01:41 AM

Is it just me, or do Zizmor's before and after shots look like two totally different girls?

stache

January 18th, 2011, 04:30 AM

He's that good.

Ninjahedge

January 18th, 2011, 12:38 PM

Well, one IS smiling....

Merry

January 21st, 2011, 09:37 PM

Except for Astor Place, definitely a sad loss for the city.

Lenox Avenue Subway Kiosk, circa 1930

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_UKr9URsCkeE/TToOaSz8IHI/AAAAAAAANeE/mHz5hRyO5tE/s1600/harlemstation1930.jpg

http://harlembespoke.blogspot.com/2011/01/remember-lenox-kiosk-circa-1930.html

stache

January 22nd, 2011, 12:19 AM

The story I have heard is these canopies became too dangerous, as criminals would wait inside them and could not be seen.

brianac

January 22nd, 2011, 05:15 AM

The Astor Place kiosk is a replica of an original one, made at the same factory as the originals, in the 1980's I think.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/9d/NYCS_IRT_LexAve_AstorPl_Kiosk.jpg/800px-NYCS_IRT_LexAve_AstorPl_Kiosk.jpg (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9d/NYCS_IRT_LexAve_AstorPl_Kiosk.jpg)

brianac

January 22nd, 2011, 06:30 AM

Don't know if this has been posted before but it gives good historical information about various subway stations.

http://mta.info/mta/museum/images/album_art_museumcast.jpg

http://www.transitmuseumeducation.org/museumcast/

brianac

January 23rd, 2011, 04:46 AM

Token Reminder

Q. How long does the M.T.A. (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/organizations/m/metropolitan_transportation_authority/index.html?inline=nyt-org) plan to keep its “No Tokens” display (at right) on so many subway turnstiles? The system hasn’t used tokens for ages, and there is no slot for tokens anymore. What purpose does the sign continue to serve?

A. Like chicken soup in the old joke, it can’t hurt.

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2011/01/23/nyregion/23FYI/23FYI-articleInline.jpgTina Fineberg. Associated Press

The real reason, actually, is money. “Eliminating the turnstile customer message ‘No Tokens’ is a costly software change and would require resources that are better utilized on other maintenance functions,” Deirdre K. Parker, a New York City Transit (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/organizations/n/new_york_city_transit/index.html?inline=nyt-org) spokeswoman, said in an e-mail.

The first automated fare collection turnstiles went online at the Wall Street and Whitehall Street stations in 1994, she wrote. By 1997, all buses and subways accepted MetroCards, and by the end of 2003, tokens had been completely phased out.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/23/nyregion/23fyi.html?partner=rss&emc=rss (http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/23/nyregion/23fyi.html?partner=rss&emc=rss)

stache

January 23rd, 2011, 07:57 AM

I still miss tokens. :(

Ninjahedge

January 24th, 2011, 08:26 AM

Costly software change?

BS.

It basically involves someone going out there and changing the message (probably by hand).

THAT is costly... :rolleyes:

BBMW

January 24th, 2011, 10:48 PM

The probably have to replace a chip in each turnstyle.

brianac

February 1st, 2011, 06:42 PM

MTA eyes sliding doors on subway platforms to prevent falls onto tracks, litter thrown onto rails

BY Pete Donohue (http://www.nydailynews.com/authors/Pete%20Donohue)
DAILY NEWS STAFF WRITER

Originally Published:Tuesday, February 1st 2011, 4:00 AM
Updated: Tuesday, February 1st 2011, 9:31 AM

http://assets.nydailynews.com/img/2011/02/02/alg_airtrain.jpg DelMundo/NYDN
The MTA is exploring the use of mechanical doors on subway platforms - like those already in use on the AirTrain platform in Jamaica, Queens.

http://assets.nydailynews.com/img/2011/02/01/amd_brendan_mahoney_subway_victim.jpg Facebook
Brendan Mahoney was killed by an L train.

What do you think?

Subway platform rails

Should the MTA put protective walls along platform edges?

Yes, too many people die from falling or jumping onto the tracks.No, it will cost too much money and people need to take responsibility for themselves.I'm not sure.

The MTA may install sliding mechanical doors on subway platforms so riders can't fall, jump - or get pushed to the tracks.

The metal-and-glass doors would be part of a barrier along a platform's edge and would open only after a train stops at the station, a Metropolitan Transportation Authority (http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/Metropolitan+Transportation+Authority) document shows.

The system would help prevent tragic incidents, like the Sunday morning death on the L train tracks of 24-year-old Brendan Mahoney in Brooklyn (http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/Brooklyn+(New+York+City)), officials said.

And it would protect riders from killers like Andrew Goldstein (http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/Andrew+Goldstein), the mental patient who shoved 32-year-old Kendra Webdale (http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/Kendra+Webdale) to her death in front of a speeding N train beneath Madison Square Park (http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/Madison+Square+Park) in 1999.

In 2009 alone, 90 people were struck by trains - and 40 died, NYC Transit stats show. "We are very early in the process of looking at the possibility of installing platform doors that would go a long way toward enhancing passenger safety and station appearance," MTA spokesman Kevin Ortiz (http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/Kevin+Ortiz) said.

The protective platforms under consideration are increasingly common overseas in cities like London (http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/London+(England)), Paris (http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/Paris+(France)) and Tokyo (http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/Tokyo). They are also in use closer to home at AirTrain stops in Queens and in New Jersey (http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/New+Jersey).

Subway riders yesterday said the platform barriers and doors would be a good addition but worried about the costs and whether installation would drive fares up.

"I think it's great but ... I don't know where they'll get the funds to finance that," said Dave Ugelow (http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/Dave+Ugelow), a 24-year-old Manhattan (http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/Manhattan) law student. "Anything that can prevent people from falling or jumping on the tracks is a good thing."

One plan under consideration is to allow whoever builds the doors to share the revenue from advertising that would go on them.

NYC Transit has drafted a two-page list of requirements for the platform-edge barriers in what is called a "Request for Information" that is due back from manufacturers in March. It asks companies interested in the project to describe their qualifications and how they might proceed if selected.

Proponents say the door would do more than just help protect passengers - it would also help reduce the number of lawsuits and the million-dollar payouts the agency faces each year.

Another added benefit: The doors would prevent trash from being tossed or blown onto the tracks. Hundreds of trains are delayed each month by small fires ignited by sparks from trains and the electrified third rail.

With Al Barbarino (http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/Al+Barbarino)

pdonohue@nydailynews.com (pdonohue@nydailynews.com)

Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/2011/02/01/2011-02-01_mta_eyes_sliding_doors_as_subway_platform_lifes aver.html#ixzz1CknWQ500

Ninjahedge

February 2nd, 2011, 08:53 AM

I think they should where they can, but there are two main problems with this:

1. Some stations simply do not have the room or the geometry that would accomodate something like this. Curved platforms or narrow ones being the main problem.

2. MONEY! Where the hell are they going to get the cas to put these things in on one of the largest metro systems in the WORLD? (Especially after continuous budget problems).

So I am all for it, just not now. They should be focusing more on how to make the subways less maintainence intensive (which repairs would reduce repair and cleaning) than what ones will keep people safer from events that happen so infrequently (given the sheer volume of riders).

ZippyTheChimp

February 2nd, 2011, 05:58 PM

Best way to sell it to the public: Possibility to air-condition subway stations.

lofter1

February 2nd, 2011, 07:26 PM

They only way that a promise of AC in stations would work is if they install similar separation near the turnstiles and create a fully enclosed AC zone on the platforms. Otherwise any cooled air would escape up and out the staircases. Don't see how it would work any way, considering the numbers of bodies entering and exiting at any given time.

scumonkey

February 2nd, 2011, 07:29 PM

cold air sinks :p:D

ZippyTheChimp

February 2nd, 2011, 07:53 PM

^
That's right.

You don't have to seal up the station. You're not trying to build a refrigerator.

I don't think there's any data, but there's anecdotal evidence (and supported by science) that subway stations, while never comfortably cool, were generally cooler than the streets above. That's obviously no longer the case.

Reason? Probably air-conditioned subway cars. Trains moving through the tunnels are the primary air circulator for the system. Trains now exchange more heat into the tunnels, so the air moving through the system is hotter.

You wouldn't have to do it throughout the system, but there are many candidates - like IND West 4th St, lower level.

stache

February 2nd, 2011, 08:07 PM

Parts of uptown #6 at Grand Central are air cooled. HEAVEN.

Stroika

February 3rd, 2011, 01:12 AM

Wow, this is quite possibly the most shocking thing I've heard today. To think that with all the problems the subway has funding and maintaining its current operations -- the constant threat of fare hikes; the stations (as at Smith St., or Borough Hall ... or dozens of others) that go unrenovated for years and years; the need to replace aged rolling stock; the constant struggle to keep tracks maintained to allow for smooth train operation; the need for train links to LaGuardia, the 2nd Ave Subway, the Far West Side and possibly elsewhere; scratchitti/graffiti; the general dirtiness of the system; the huge costs associated with employing and retiring the unionized public employees working for the MTA ... and they want to build some utterly unnecessary walls at the edge of every platform? With all of the difficulties the MTA has financing its basic maintenance, to undertake this sort of capital project is the height of folly.

Not to mention that doors like this in busy subway stations (St. Petersburg, Montreal, Paris) often lead to bottlenecks, pushing, and generally unpleasant crowd behaviors that you don't have such a problem with when people aren't so focused on standing around the holes in the wall ... I can't help but see this as a truly uncalled-for, bizarre pipe dream (and let's hope it stays that way).

GordonGecko

February 3rd, 2011, 12:34 PM

With all of the difficulties the MTA has financing its basic maintenance, to undertake this sort of capital project is the height of folly.

Not to mention that doors like this in busy subway stations (St. Petersburg, Montreal, Paris) often lead to bottlenecks, pushing, and generally unpleasant crowd behaviors that you don't have such a problem with when people aren't so focused on standing around the holes in the wall ... I can't help but see this as a truly uncalled-for, bizarre pipe dream (and let's hope it stays that way).
I agree. Somewhere in the MTA, there's a group of bored lifelong bureaucrats who have compulsive urges to come up with grand & minimally beneficial pet projects. The payback to cost ratio of this idea approaches zero.

mariab

February 21st, 2011, 01:33 PM

It's Now Legal to Tour the City's Prettiest Subway Station (That's Not Covered in Graffiti)

By Matt Chaban

http://www.observer.com/files/full/historic_city_hall_station.jpg

While it's still illegal to check out the Underbelly Project (http://www.observer.com/2010/real-estate/why-there-huge-half-built-subway-station-williamsburg-covered-grafitti), the unfinished Brooklyn subway station that a bunch of street artists recently turned into a gallery, New Yorkers need no longer sneak around to see another underground gem.

There is a station hidden beneath City Hall Park, the former terminus of the original IRT subway. Because of its choice location and pioneering significance, the IRT made City Hall Station its most sumptuous stop, a loop of tiled ceilings and wrought-iron columns. It closed, however, in 1945, after longer trains were added and the station could not accomodate them.

The MTA continued to use the station as a turnaround for the 6 train, and daring subway nerds would duck down for a glimpse as the Lex departed the Brooklyn Bridge stop.

All that has changed, however, as Jalopnik points out that riders are now welcome to to take a trip around the City Hall loop (http://jalopnik.com/5684329/how-to-see-new-yorks-secret-city-hall-subway-stop). The Observer checked with an MTA spokesman who confirmed that this is indeed now legal.

http://www.observer.com/2010/real-estate/its-now-legal-tour-citys-coolest-subway-station-isnt-covered-graffiti

Featured on WNYE's 'Secrets of New York' today, as well as the subway stop built under the Waldorf especially for FDR. The car that carried him also carried his automobile, which was then transferred to a special elevator to carry him up to the street. All this to hide his illness as much as they could. According to historians interviewed, they think the subway car sitting in that abandoned station, left there since 1945 (when he died) is the one that him & his automobile used. Fascinating.

They also said Grand Central Terminal extends to 97th St.

GordonGecko

February 22nd, 2011, 11:51 AM

Featured on WNYE's 'Secrets of New York' today, as well as the subway stop built under the Waldorf especially for FDR. The car that carried him also carried his automobile, which was then transferred to a special elevator to carry him up to the street. All this to hide his illness as much as they could. According to historians interviewed, they think the subway car sitting in that abandoned station, left there since 1945 (when he died) is the one that him & his automobile used. Fascinating.

They also said Grand Central Terminal extends to 97th St.
Did you know that most of the land immediately north of Grand Central is one giant steel platform? I've been told that the reason there are no walk/don't walk signs anywhere there on Park is because the platform can't stand the weight, but I don't know if any of that is true.

Here are images of Grand Central Depot before it was covered up, and the air rights sold for the skyscrapers that line Park avenue today:

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/grandcentral/program/images/index_lg.jpg

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2010/08/19/realestate/20100822scapes2/20100822scapes2-custom6.jpg

http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p242/Lofter1/Grand%20Central%20Terminal/GCT_Warren%20Wetmore%20Reed%20Stem/GCT_1912_Cutaway.jpg

http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p242/Lofter1/Grand%20Central%20Terminal/GCT_Warren%20Wetmore%20Reed%20Stem/GCT_1913_Park46th.jpg

see: http://wirednewyork.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3424&p=334859&viewfull=1#post334859

mariab

February 22nd, 2011, 04:01 PM

Now that's fascinating, especially the 4th pic, but with everything sitting on top of this 'platform', why if in fact that's true) on earth are they most worried about the parking signs? You have sidewalks, streetlights, the built-up median, vehicle traffic that has probably tripled since then.

lofter1

February 22nd, 2011, 05:20 PM

I've read that the reason for no illuminated pedestrian signals along the median is because of the lack of space, due to the minimal depth of the platform, for the electrics that would need to be buried beneath.

Snackbar21

February 22nd, 2011, 07:08 PM

They've finally made good progress on the pedestrian signals in the past few months. Only took a few decades, kinda like the Second Avenue Subway.

mariab

February 23rd, 2011, 03:53 PM

Imagine that. One of the most famous avenues in the most famous cities in the world, & they're still making progress on pedestrian signals.

GordonGecko

March 31st, 2011, 04:19 PM

Google has the subway stops on its maps but they are just disjointed points which aren't always useful. Just came across a site where a guy published a mashup with all the lines color-coded, very nice job:
http://www.onnyturf.com/subway/

Ninjahedge

April 1st, 2011, 08:00 AM

I have been using them for a while.

scumonkey

May 9th, 2011, 12:26 PM

MTA cards may soon be replaced by 'contactless' credit card as 'E-ZPass' for subway riders

BY Pete Donohue (http://www.nydailynews.com/authors/Pete%20Donohue)
DAILY NEWS STAFF WRITER
Sunday, May 8th 2011, 4:00 AM

http://assets.nydailynews.com/img/2009/04/08/alg_mta.jpg Smith for News
MetroCards may soon be a thing of the past, with credit cards doubling as subway passes.

Donohue: MTA being taken for $14M ride (http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/2011/03/14/2011-03-14_farebeaters_just_waltz_on_a_bus_so_mta_being_ta ken_for_a_14m_ride.html)
Faster buses are the new East Side story (http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/2011/01/19/2011-01-19_faster_buses_are_the_new_e_side_story.html)
Snow transit complaints keep piling up (http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/2010/12/29/2010-12-29__city_left_us_in_the_lurch_say_fedup_travelers. html)
Back-to-work morning commute bullet points (http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/2010/12/28/2010-12-28_christmas_blizzard_of_2010_backtowork_morning_c ommute_bullet_points_.html)
Labor tussle slows Bronx bus service (http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/2010/12/25/2010-12-25_labor_tussle_slows_bronx_bus_service.html)
Most riders report they're happy (http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/2010/12/14/2010-12-14_stunner_most_riders_report_theyre_happy.html)

The MetroCard (http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/MetroCard)'s days are numbered, and its replacement might already be in your wallet.
In a few years, subway riders could be able to open turnstiles with the tap of a credit card - or with a new pass they're calling the MTA Card, the Daily News has learned. Straphangers also will be able to establish travel accounts and transfer money via home computers or the nearest automatic bank machine.
Those are some of the features the Metropolitan Transportation Authority (http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/Metropolitan+Transportation+Authority) envisions for the fare system that officials say will replace the MetroCard in three or four years - and could save the agency millions.
"It's E-ZPass (http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/E-ZPass) for transit," said MTA Chief Financial Officer Charles Monheim (http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/Charles+Monheim).
On Tuesday, the MTA will unveil its post-MetroCard vision to more than 70 companies in the technology, telecommunications and financial industries, including American Express (http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/American+Express+Company), JPMorgan Chase (http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/JPMorgan+Chase+%26+Co.) and Nokia (http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/Nokia+Corporation).
The MTA has drafted a 140-page roadmap giving the most detailed glimpse to date of how the post-MetroCard world might look for the 7.4 million daily subway and bus riders.
Bus riders will still be able to plunk coins into fareboxes, but little else will remain the same.
Riders will no longer swipe a MetroCard's magnetic strip through a turnstile reader or dip it into a bus farebox. Instead, they will place or tap their "contactless" credit or debit card in front of a sensor.
Customers will be able to choose to pay as they go, with an amount deducted or charged by their financial institution, just like shopping with plastic at a store. Or they can pay in advance, buying a number of trips or a week or month of unlimited trips. Instead of having a separate MetroCard, the information would be electronically linked to the rider's debit or credit card.
Straphangers who don't have those cards, or don't want to use them for mass transit, could buy an MTA Card, which would also work with a tap. The card would be sold at station vending machines, token booths or stores.
The authority expects it will be able to save hundreds of millions of dollars a year in labor and material costs as it moves away from selling and distributing farecards. It sells more than 70 million MetroCards a year from token booths and in-station vending machines, which need to be constantly stocked and maintained.
The MTA also expects to reduce the amount of money it loses annually to so-called "swipers," who vandalize MetroCard vending machines so they're inoperable. They then sell riders illegal entry to the subway.
And there will be far fewer vending machines because most riders will no longer need them to buy fare cards.
The technology would allow the MTA to charge different rates for rush-hour or off-peak travel - but the authority is not considering such a change, officials said.
pdonohue@nydailynews.com

Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/2011/05/08/2011-05-08_metrocards_may_join_tokens_mta_eyes_hightech_re placement_system.html#ixzz1LsCj9rQm

Ninjahedge

May 9th, 2011, 12:32 PM

PATH has had it for about 3 years now.

Way to jump on new technology!!! Lets replace all the token turnstyles with something that is still a PITA and change it again 5 (?) years later!

GordonGecko

May 9th, 2011, 01:09 PM

Yeah I don't know what took them so long, MetroCards are the equivalent of using magnetic VHS tapes when you can stream data from the internet instead. I think the contactless cards are a good first step (I used the citibank keychain device in the test pilot more than 3 years ago and it worked well). Eventually it will all be NFC payments from your cell phone. You'll even be able to reload from an app or a desktop computer instead of waiting in line at a metrocard machine that will be obsolete for the majority of people

lofter1

May 9th, 2011, 02:05 PM

The MTA better buy me a cell phone that will do that.

Nexis4Jersey

May 9th, 2011, 03:48 PM

The MTA is very behind when it comes to tech....
Boston
PATH
PATCO
DC Metro (if i recall)
Hong Kong
Tokyo
Brisbane
Melbourne
Auckland
London
Moscow
Singapore
San Fransico
Toronto
Seattle
Vancouver

All have contact less cards.....most large muti modal systems do , a majority of the smaller systems don't....but it seems like this will become the standard of Global Transit payment.

Merry

June 2nd, 2011, 06:25 AM

MTA Tries a New Disguise for Its Fake Village Townhouse

Wednesday, June 1, 2011, by Sara Polsky

http://ny.curbed.com/uploads/mulryrevised1_6_11.jpg

The early reviews of the MTA's proposed subway ventilation plant at Mulry Square were so unenthusiastic (http://ny.curbed.com/archives/2010/05/14/next_secret_subway_townhouse_planned_for_greenwich _village.php) the agency went back to the drawing board to revise the townhouse-like faux-cade. Last night, the MTA presented the latest version to a Community Board 2 subcommittee, and that version is above. As the GVSHP blog (http://gvshp.org/blog/2011/06/01/final-mta-mulry-square-vent-plant-designs-unveiled/) explains, the design still calls for a faux-cade over a concrete box, but the facade is shorter this time around, and the windows have actual glass. Adds a certain realism, no? The MTA's latest plan also calls for the 9/11 commemorative Tiles for America to be embedded into the concrete around the building's base.

The LPC has a purely advisory role in the design and will give the MTA its feedback next week. Our verdict: it can still never be as good as the one in Brooklyn Heights (http://ny.curbed.com/archives/2010/04/13/brooklyn_heights_townhouse_is_actually_a_decoy.php ).
(http://ny.curbed.com/archives/2011/06/01/mta_tries_a_new_disguise_for_its_fake_village_town house.php#more)
The view from Greenwich Avenue:

http://ny.curbed.com/uploads/mulryrevised2_6_11.jpg

The older version (http://ny.curbed.com/archives/2010/05/17/mtas_fake_village_townhouse_needs_a_better_disguis e.php) of the plan:

http://ny.curbed.com/uploads/mulryold_6_11.jpg

Final MTA Mulry Square Vent Plant Designs Unveiled (http://gvshp.org/blog/2011/06/01/final-mta-mulry-square-vent-plant-designs-unveiled/) [GVSHP]

http://ny.curbed.com/archives/2011/06/01/mta_tries_a_new_disguise_for_its_fake_village_town house.php#more

lofter1

June 2nd, 2011, 11:37 AM

Better than before, but the tile plaques look awkwardly haphazard with a weird cove at the bottom; that all needs refinement. As for the rest: Ultimately it will all come down to the quality of the bricks.

Merry

September 3rd, 2011, 03:54 AM

There Will Be a Boardwalk Empire Subway Train

By Jen Doll

http://blogs.villagevoice.com/runninscared/assets_c/2011/09/rsz_subwayoutsidehbo-thumb-250x166.jpg (http://blogs.villagevoice.com/runninscared/rsz_subwayoutsidehbo.jpg)

Today in historical things that are kind of cool: You'll see a 1920s (authentic, vintage) subway train running on the 2/3 track for all the weekends in September. The train was originally used for the IRT system, and began service in 1917. Now its rattan seats and Prohibition-era detailing (ceiling fans! drop sash windows!) will be paired with "Boardwalk Empire-inspired period artwork" because, after all, this is not just an old train, it is a promotional old train. Specifically, HBO is using it to remind people of season two of their Prohibition-era-detailed show, Boardwalk Empire, which premieres on Sunday, September 25. Ah, yes. The MTA occasionally brings back adorable vintage subway trains for holiday time (http://blogs.villagevoice.com/runninscared/2010/12/mta_trying_to_w.php) and such. And despite this being a promotional gambit, and therefore slightly less "innocent" in purpose, we do like legit old subway trains, and apparently "brand ambassadors" will be giving complimentary MetroCards away on the weekend of the show's premiere. Free stuff. That makes up for "brand ambassadors." Also, a vintage subway train is better than a whole train covered in wall-to-wall Target advertising...right?

For the record, Laura Young, director of corporate affairs at HBO, told us they've never used an authentic, time-period accurate train for other show promotions, though they did wrap and brand a train in which the interior was transformed to the period, for Deadwood.

http://blogs.villagevoice.com/runninscared/assets_c/2011/09/rsz_subwayhbo-thumb-550x366.jpg (http://blogs.villagevoice.com/runninscared/rsz_subwayhbo.jpg)

Catch the train Saturdays and Sundays in September from 12 p.m. to 6 p.m. -- it will make stops at 96th, 72nd6th, and 42nd street. Catch the show wherever you watch HBO, if you do that sort of thing.

http://blogs.villagevoice.com/runninscared/2011/09/boardwalk_empire_subway.php

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/09/01/emboardwalk-empireem-brin_n_945691.html?ncid=edlinkusaolp00000003
(http://blogs.villagevoice.com/runninscared/2011/09/boardwalk_empire_subway.php)

mariab

September 3rd, 2011, 12:51 PM

Cool. More of a reason to watch the show.

Merry

September 23rd, 2011, 08:37 PM

Newsstand Removal Reveals Ye Olde Subway Sign

http://gothamist.com/attachments/arts_jen/subwaysign092311.jpg
Photo by Kathryn Yu

The West 4th Street newsstand was recently removed, and check out what it revealed: this old MTA sign. Eagle-eyed photographer Kathryn Yu spotted it last night (http://twitter.com/#%21/kathrynyu/status/117018472994717697). The sign reads: 8th Avenue Independent Subway Station, which opened in 1932 as the first line of the Independent Subway System.

We've contacted the MTA to see if they'd consider leaving the ol' gal up—after all, when the tiled mosaic (http://gothamist.com/2010/10/21/subway_mosaic.php#photo-1) was unearthed at the 59th Street-Columbus Circle station they told us they were "well aware of the historical significance... and we are working on a design for a window in the wall so this treasure can be shared with the public at some future date.”

http://gothamist.com/2011/09/23/newsstand_removal_reveals_ye_olde_s.php

Ninjahedge

September 26th, 2011, 08:35 AM

Very cool.

GordonGecko

September 26th, 2011, 02:24 PM

So the first cell phone service in underground subway stations is getting rolled out tomorrow. T-Mobile will be available at the C,E station 23rd & 8th and three stations on 14th Street (ACE, FML, 123). Too bad the service won't be available on the train itself when it leaves the station.

IMO this isn't much of an upgrade as you can usually hover around the exit for service and pop in when you see the train coming. I would prefer they find a way to wire the trains for wi-fi

Ninjahedge

September 26th, 2011, 02:40 PM

I don't.

I seriously do not want to be able to be contacted no matter where I am 24/7.

Used to be going into the tunnels would do that but now, "luckily", you can be contacted while in there.

I agree it is a convenience, but one of the things about modern life that is a double edged blade is constant connection.

lofter1

September 26th, 2011, 02:42 PM

If this helps to keep the fools from congregating and blocking the top of the station stairways then that will be helpful.

Although a bunch of blatherers on board trains is not something I look forward to.

stache

September 26th, 2011, 02:44 PM

Give up. You can't win.

lofter1

September 26th, 2011, 02:56 PM

Yes, Time Marches On ... and The Future Will Be Beautiful.

Ninjahedge

September 26th, 2011, 03:13 PM

Wait for the implants.

You think Bluetooth headsets are confusing (when someone is seemingly talking to themselves, or asking you a question when they are really talking to someone on the phone), wait until it is all hardwired in your skull....

And to add to that, imagine how people will react when their cerebral internet connection goes down!!! My GOD! They will not know how to get to their own parents place without the holo-map!

stache

September 26th, 2011, 05:40 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bs5bnVoZK4Q

GordonGecko

November 22nd, 2011, 12:36 AM

This dude is going to end up at Gitmo one day:

http://jalopnik.com/5723418/the-secret-underground-world-of-new-york-city

( (http://jalopnik.com/5723418/the-secret-underground-world-of-new-york-city)don't know how to embed this vimeo clip)

stache

November 22nd, 2011, 03:25 AM

Click the film strip icon in the reply box. Then paste your video link inside the parenthesis brackets. :)

Nexis4Jersey

December 19th, 2011, 12:44 AM

All the stations i have photographed or taken video of...

NYC Subway

IRT Lexington Avenue line
103rd Street
96th street
59th Street
51st Street
42nd Street
33rd Street
28th Street
23rd Street
14th Street - Union SQ
Spring Street
Canal Street
Brooklyn Bridge - City Hall
Fulton Street
Bowling Green

IND 8th Avenue line
42nd Street – Port Authority Bus Terminal
34th Street – Penn Station
14th Street
West Fourth Street – Washington Square
Spring Street
Canal Street
World Trade Center

IRT Broadway – Seventh Avenue Line
96th Street
79th Street
72nd Street
Times Square – 42nd Street
34th Street – Penn Station
14th Street
Christopher Street
Houston Street
Chambers Street
South Ferry

BMT Canarsie Line
Eighth Avenue
Sixth Avenue
Union Square

IND Queens Boulevard Line
Seventh Avenue
Fifth Avenue / 53rd Street
Lexington Avenue – 53rd Street
Court Square – 23rd Street

IND/BMT Archer Avenue Line
Jamaica – Van Wyck
Sutphin Boulevard – Archer Avenue – JFK Airport

BMT Broadway Line
Whitehall Street – South Ferry
City Hall
23rd Street
28th Street
Lexington Avenue / 59th Street

IRT Flushing Line
Times SQ
Fifth Avenue – Bryant Park
Grand Central
Hunters Point Avenue
Court Square
Queensboro Plaza
33rd Street – Rawson Street
74th Street – Broadway

IND Sixth Avenue Line
47th–50th Streets – Rockefeller Center
34th Street – Herald Square
14th Street
West Fourth Street – Washington Square
East Broadway

IRT Eastern Parkway Line
Clark Street
Borough Hall
Nevins Street
Atlantic Avenue

The Last 8 Stations i have video taped

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z0CNxOuJOSc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eTg0SL5xdKk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o7wV-qsbk08

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qh2b-hHa-Z8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n593CFO9qsA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bCmFsrkrAtQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AcZ1ifJo_2k

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eD7FNEyU0Tk

GordonGecko

December 19th, 2011, 02:38 PM

[B]All the stations i have photographed or taken video of...
Good job, the Department of Homeland Security will be right with you, thank you for your patience ;)

Nexis4Jersey

December 19th, 2011, 06:51 PM

Good job, the Department of Homeland Security will be right with you, thank you for your patience ;)

Hopefully that means the MTA will have to clean some of the stations...

Nexis4Jersey

December 21st, 2011, 10:45 PM

I did Canal Street Yesterday....quite loud on the 4/5/6 side..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8SoixroLOg

GordonGecko

December 21st, 2011, 11:19 PM

Nexis4Jersey

December 24th, 2011, 11:34 AM

I don't like that the express stop isn't under Broadway. It's actually under Canal between Centre and just past Lafayette, whereas the local R train stop is under Broadway between Walker and Howard. It confuses the heck out of tourists but my problem with it is it makes it a hassle to transfer and it's a hike to get out to Broadway & Canal

I rarely use the N/Q/R line , so when i got off the R train i was confused on where the N/Q trains were. I thought it was all one station , but the N/Q trains are a different station , also if your heading from the Downtown R Train and not paying attention you'll walk right onto the Uptown Express platform which is what happened there.

The Video that started my love for the subway , ever since then I try to film the subway once a week...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=583FkfZL-ts

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dap1pquZIhM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PgcYaP0nkNg

GordonGecko

December 26th, 2011, 07:17 PM

It's the same station, but it is a completely different platform. The N/Q trains cross the Manhattan bridge and dive under canal. The turn at Broadway and ramp up to join the R line is too far up to platform at the R stop. The engineers should instead have made the Manhattan bridge tracks fork off under Walker and then below the Broadway tracks so that they could at least platform at the same place like the E train below the A at 50th street

Nexis4Jersey

December 26th, 2011, 10:48 PM

What are the Center tracks on the R Train @ Canal street used for?

marnegator

December 27th, 2011, 05:06 PM

The center tracks run to, and terminate at, the lower level of the City Hall station. Since it's not in passenger service, that stretch of track is just used for train storage.

GordonGecko

December 28th, 2011, 02:33 PM

hmm fascinating, I never knew that and was also wondering about the express tracks. Where is access to that lower platform, I assume it's sealed off?

vanshnookenraggen

December 28th, 2011, 08:05 PM

Surprisingly it's pretty obvious. Go to the City Hall station and look for a simple staircase down and you will see the second platform.

Fun fact: The platform was originally built to allow local trains to terminate at City Hall while express trains would continue to Brooklyn (as the IRT Lexington Ave subway is set up with the 6 train terminating at Brooklyn Bridge). While planning the BMT Broadway subway the city started building the Manhattan Bridge which would allow express trains to bypass downtown entirely so the plans were changed... but not really since most of the construction was already completed. The BMT built the second platform with no intention to use it for passenger service, rather it would act as storage.

Nexis4Jersey

December 28th, 2011, 09:46 PM

Would have been nice knowing nothing operating on those tracks , I stood there for 15 mins waiting for something to come.

GordonGecko

December 28th, 2011, 10:58 PM

Would have been nice knowing nothing operating on those tracks , I stood there for 15 mins waiting for something to come.
well you had to know, at the North end of the platform there's a giant wall on the express track :)

Nexis4Jersey

December 29th, 2011, 02:36 AM

Well I didn't see any wall , I just saw that the tracks went straight up...

Nexis4Jersey

December 31st, 2011, 02:18 AM

I tried my new camera at 2 stations on the Lex line...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7iq1w2gGdVc

GordonGecko

December 31st, 2011, 02:43 PM

If you do Brooklyn Bridge, make sure to stay on the southbound 6 so you can film the decommissioned city hall station

vanshnookenraggen

January 3rd, 2012, 05:33 PM

Inside the City's Ghost Subway SystemLines and Stations That Time ForgotTuesday, January 03, 2012 - 12:00 AMWNYC

By Jim O'Grady (http://www.wnyc.org/people/jim-ogrady/) : WNYC

The New York City subway system has 842 miles of track, making it the largest in North America. And there's even more to it than riders see: dozens of tunnels and platforms that were either abandoned or were built but never used. They form a kind of ghost system that reveals how the city's transit ambitions have been both realized and thwarted.

Historian Joe Cunningham knows as much as anyone about the subway and how it's evolved since it opened in 1904. He stood before a map of it on a wall in Penn Station and considered its extent. The system is vast, reaching like an octopus from Manhattan to almost every neighborhood outside Staten Island. Cunnningham said that's because its planners have always thought big.http://media.wnyc.org/media/photologue/photos/Joe%20Cunningham.JPG
"Oh yeah, it was a bold undertaking and little by little it just grew over a period of about 45 years," he said. He also pointed out the gaps in service: southeast Brooklyn, central and eastern Queens, straight up the middle of the Bronx.
Almost all of those neighborhoods were set to get their own subways. Most of those lines died on the drafting table, but some were begun and then abandoned when the city ran out of money or pursued other priorities.

"After World War II, prices had gone up substantially and it became obvious that it was not going to be possible to build all of the lines they would've like to have built," he explained.
Urban Explorers Head Undergroundhttp://media.wnyc.org/media/photologue/photos/Moses%20Gates%20pic.JPG
You can see their beginnings, if you go underground. That's where urban explorers like Moses Gates (http://www.allcitynewyork.com/) (left) likes to go. (Gates is working on a book, which is to be published by an imprint of Penguin Books and has the working title, "The Other Side of the Sign: About Urban Exploration Around the World.") He took me down to a tunnel under Nevins Street in Brooklyn, where a line was begun that would've run from Downtown Brooklyn in two directions: east into Bedford-Stuvesant and west under Flatbush Avenue in Fort Greene and then over the Manhattan Bridge to Canal Street.
It sits beneath tracks for the 4 and 5 trains run, which rumbled overhead as we stood on a fully tiled platform never opened to the public. To get there, we hopped down on some tracks that were closed for repairs and made our way to a tunnel begun for the abandoned line. Shadowed and cavernous, it was swampy in places and layered with grit in others. All of it sits beneath the city, unused.
Back above ground, Gates said the system is honeycombed with spots like this: stations, platforms and tunnels prepared for an expansive future that never came to be.

"There's these cool little remnants of foresight that didn't pan out," he said.
For example, a Brooklyn-bound branch of the F train was supposed to keep going under Houston Street, beneath the East River and across Central Brooklyn before turning down to Flatlands near Jamaica Bay. That area still doesn't have a subway.

A large station for that never-built line was constructed under South Williamsburg. Two summers ago, graffiti artists from around the world snuck in and covered its concrete walls with giant works of art.

"We built the subway into farmland on the assumption that people would live there and use them to get to work," Gates said, including tunnels and stations readied to accommodate future lines. "We built a humongous shell station on the G line, or right off the G line, because there was gonna to be two other lines and two new tunnels under the East River that were going to converge there."

One of them would've been that F train branch, another would've been an extension of the Eight Avenue line (A/C) that cut across Lower Manhattan and into Brooklyn.
"This goes on in the '20s and '30s," Gates said. "Then with the Depression in the '30s, the city runs out of money and none of this gets built."
As Gates described it, these unbuilt lines make up an impressive second system that sits invisibly on the actual subway map: lines that would've directly connected Forest Hills to JFK Airport, South Brooklyn to Staten Island and the Second Avenue Subway to Throgs Neck in the Bronx.

"Ever since, you've had all these cool nooks and crannies all around the subway system that were kind of foresight that never panned out," he said.
A Look at One Forgotten Station
The MTA doesn't want people exploring the abandoned or lost station stops. But for those that want a first hand glimpse, there is one option. MTA worker Dan Brucker gives tours of Grand Central Terminal that feature a visit to a secret station far below ground.

"That secret train station out there was built for one customer only," he boomed to a tour group late last year under the vaulted constellation of the terminal's main hall. "It was built for Franklin Delano Roosevelt."

He said Roosevelt's custom-built train would pull in and open its doors. A limousine with the president in it would be driven from inside the train, down a ramp and into an elevator next to the platform.

"He and his limousine and his staff would be lifted up and then backed out into the Grand Ballroom of the Waldorf Astoria," he said, where the president would give a speech.

FDR's train car still sits on a stub of track beneath Grand Central, a peculiar piece of the city's lost transit system — like stations once opened and now closed.
Glimpses While Riding the Line
Take the 1, 2 or 3 train and you can see an abandoned station at West 91st Street. In the 1950s, the city increased the capacity of the system by lengthening the average train from eight to ten cars and expanding station platforms. More riders could move through a commute. But to increase the speed of the trains, more space was needed between stations along the old routes. The city shut down 16 stops.

The best known one in Brooklyn is at Myrtle Avenue on the Q line, which has been turned into a work of art called masstransitscope. In Manhattan, there are abandoned stations at Worth Street, East 18th Street and beneath City Hall.
Some of those lost stops hide in plain sight — graffiti-covered indentations lit by a few bare bulbs and glimpsed from a moving train. All you need is to know where to look.

Link
(http://www.wnyc.org/blogs/wnyc-news-blog/2012/jan/03/new-yorks-lost-subways)
There is also this cool interactive map (http://project.wnyc.org/news-maps/lost-subways/) showing some of the unbuilt lines.

GordonGecko

January 3rd, 2012, 11:07 PM

Staten Island to Brooklyn subway is about the stupidest proposal I've ever heard of. If you're going to go through that expense it has to go to Manhattan. There's already a bridge linking Brooklyn to SI, but nothing except a ferry to get to Manhattan which is where most people on SI want to go anyways

stache

January 3rd, 2012, 11:22 PM

I think they were looking at the cheapest solution.

ZippyTheChimp

January 4th, 2012, 12:03 AM

The bridge doesn't enter into the equation. It was built in the 1960s; the tunnel was begun at Owl's Head Park before 1920. It would have connected the SI Rapid Transit to the Brooklyn Rapid Transit (now R line).

A tunnel from SI to Manhattan would be over 5 miles long, a waste of resources.

Ninjahedge

January 4th, 2012, 09:47 AM

What needs to be explored is an expansion of the PATH and integration into the NY subway system... Although the PATH is on-time, cheap and clean.....

Having a faster, more networked way to get into areas of NJ that are, geographically speaking, closer than areas already serviced in Queens and Brooklyn would help with commuting, traffic and other issues....

But, it is hard enough to get people to agree when they all come from one state. Look at the debacle with the NJ/NY tunnel that NJ pulled out of. I am sure there were SOME legit objections, but they were never really voiced loud enough to be heard above the din of "Quitter" being shouted at a rather obnoxious governmental figure....

stache

January 4th, 2012, 10:19 AM

PATH is already fairly well integrated into our system. Herald Sq., 23rd St. (F,V) 14th. St. (also the L), not to mention World Trade Center. Naturally MTA is not wild about this.

GordonGecko

January 4th, 2012, 10:20 AM

I don't like the PATH train at all, it's slow and has infrequent service. But it would be nice to reappropriate those tunnels and convert & integrate them into the MTA system with the same subway cars. The best thing they could do right now though is extend the 7 train to Secaucus

BBMW

January 4th, 2012, 10:58 AM

The objection was simple, straighforward and logical. NJ could not afford to pay their portion of the project, especially with the likelyhood of cost overruns. It's kind of refreshing to see a politician who doesn't reflexively commit to spending money the state doesn't have.

What needs to be explored is an expansion of the PATH and integration into the NY subway system... Although the PATH is on-time, cheap and clean.....

Having a faster, more networked way to get into areas of NJ that are, geographically speaking, closer than areas already serviced in Queens and Brooklyn would help with commuting, traffic and other issues....

But, it is hard enough to get people to agree when they all come from one state. Look at the debacle with the NJ/NY tunnel that NJ pulled out of. I am sure there were SOME legit objections, but they were never really voiced loud enough to be heard above the din of "Quitter" being shouted at a rather obnoxious governmental figure....

ZippyTheChimp

January 4th, 2012, 11:05 AM

But, it is hard enough to get people to agree when they all come from one state. Look at the debacle with the NJ/NY tunnel that NJ pulled out of.The city can also lessen congestion into the core by expanding the subway within its boundaries in line with the pre WWII plans (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proposed_New_York_City_Subway_expansion_%281929-1940%29). That system was designed to provide mass transit for the entire city. It's no coincidence that the missing areas have the highest car-commutes into the city.

stache

January 4th, 2012, 11:50 AM

Also, PATH is pretty speedy from WTC to Journal Sq.

GordonGecko

January 4th, 2012, 11:52 AM

Only speedy when there's a train there ready to leave. You can wait a lonnng time for a train to show up or to leave from the WTC depending on the time of day

antinimby

January 4th, 2012, 12:13 PM

I just want train service to the area's three major airports.

Give me that for now and I'll be happy. :)

GordonGecko

January 4th, 2012, 01:49 PM

It's a shame they never extended the Astoria line to Laguardia, now the NIMBYs would never allow it. They also could have worked in the A train to JFK, but considering the distance that would be less practical. LIRR direct non-stop from Penn to JFK would have been ideal.

Ninjahedge

January 4th, 2012, 03:00 PM

Only speedy when there's a train there ready to leave. You can wait a lonnng time for a train to show up or to leave from the WTC depending on the time of day

That's the key.

The 33rd street line to Hoboken left every 7 minutes during both rushes.

It ran all night, so coming home at 4 was generally slow (45 min to 1hr) but you also had stations that were regularly cleaned and pretty well maintained (with the exception of, I think, the Pavonia/Newport station....).

When a system is used primarily for commuting, it makes no sense to have them running more often on down time.

The biggest complaint I had (besides Christopher Street being an OVEN) was the lack of any real schedule or schedule boards.

It would be nice to have a "5 min - Hoboken" train notice at the entrance before you make your way all the way down there. You could decide to just hang out (near or far, depending on your....leaning) rather than sitting in 90+ degrees in the Christopher Street stop...

Nexis4Jersey

January 5th, 2012, 06:45 PM

I did a few stations yesterday...sorry about the zoom...and the lack of focus of some shots

Lexington Avenue-51st Street IRT 6 Trains & IND E & M Trains

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KHaJ6hAvTQk

IND 8th Avenue line @ 23rd Street (A-C-E Trains)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5p2lo0IzIp4

JCMAN320

January 6th, 2012, 12:07 AM

Merry

January 6th, 2012, 01:44 AM

Feel-good digression. This is awesome :).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2P-i_5skhsU&feature=player_embedded

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/01/04/spontaneous-nyc-subway-music-collaboration_n_1184419.html?ref=new-york

Ninjahedge

January 6th, 2012, 10:01 AM

Ninja they are getting ready to do that. PATH has been putting up speakers and gray LED message boards at the entrances before the turnstiles and on the platform that will flash time and trains like the new ones on the MTA Subway. It will be better than looking for the time on the scroll on the flat screens on the platforms. No word on when they will be turned on.

JC, if you have ever been to Christopher Street, putting a board over the turnstyle will do very little. You still are going up and down a 3-4 story narrow stair into a rather stuffy stop.

One sign up at the entrance (and possibly for the 9th street stop as well) would be good. They already have a vid cam/monitor at the top of the 9th street station (I guess for cops?)....

GordonGecko

January 6th, 2012, 10:56 AM

Feel-good digression. This is awesome :).
On the other side, you know those groups of kids from the Bronx/Brookyln who show up with their static-ee boombox and start breakdancing & doing flips in the middle of the train? Well one them come on to the 7 train just before the holidays, and the dude starts doing his crazy backflips in the middle of rush hour. He slams into some guy holding a shopping bag and his stuff flies everywhere. One of his guys turns off the music and they all start laughing hysterically. The guy turns red and can't look anybody in the face. At the next stop he just bolts off the train, FAIL!!!

Nexis4Jersey

January 6th, 2012, 10:02 PM

Anyone ever notice the Hurricane force winds that blow in at 14th street on the PATH?

Merry

January 7th, 2012, 12:33 AM

On the other side, you know those groups of kids from the Bronx/Brookyln who show up with their static-ee boombox and start breakdancing & doing flips in the middle of the train? Well one them come on to the 7 train just before the holidays, and the dude starts doing his crazy backflips in the middle of rush hour. He slams into some guy holding a shopping bag and his stuff flies everywhere. One of his guys turns off the music and they all start laughing hysterically. The guy turns red and can't look anybody in the face. At the next stop he just bolts off the train, FAIL!!!

Never said it would always be awesome, Gordon. Just be happy when it is, 'k? :)

Merry

January 8th, 2012, 08:18 AM

Do the police really have nothing better to do. (Numbers on the board sounds very familiar, though. Same in my office :rolleyes:.) And also, would Mr Peppers have been arrested if he'd been white, I wonder. And do passengers do this when trains are busy?

Relax, if You Want, but Don’t Put Your Feet Up

By JOSEPH GOLDSTEIN and CHRISTINE HAUGHNEY

William D. Peppers recalled how empty the subway car was. It was not yet 4 a.m. on a Friday, so most of New York was still asleep, but he was already late for his job at a Bronx bakery. As his train passed through Midtown Manhattan, Mr. Peppers stretched out, closed his eyes and nodded off.

Then came the tap. It was a police officer.

Mr. Peppers had put his feet up on a subway seat, and that, the officer informed him, was a crime — one that in his case would lead to his arrest. He spent 12 hours in jail before he saw a judge, and was released after pleading guilty.

“I can see if it was rush hour, but there was no one else on the train. Why not just say, ‘Put your feet down’? ” said Mr. Peppers, a maintenance man at the bakery. “I lost a day of work because of their pettiness.”

It is perhaps the most minor crime New Yorkers are routinely arrested for: sitting improperly on a subway seat. Seven years ago, rule 1050(7)(J) of the city’s transit code criminalized what was once simply bad etiquette: passengers putting their feet on a subway seat. They also cannot take up more than one seat if it interferes with other passengers’ comfort, nor can they block movement on a subway by doing something like standing too close to the doors.

Police officers handed out more than 6,000 tickets for these violations in 2011. But a $50 ticket would have been welcome compared with the trouble many passengers found themselves in; roughly 1,600 people like Mr. Peppers were arrested, sometimes waiting more than a day to be brought before a judge and released, according to statistics from district attorneys’ offices.

In some instances, passengers were arrested because they had outstanding warrants, or did not have photo identification. Some arrests were harder to explain, with no apparent cause other than the seat violation. In at least one case, the arrest led to deportation.

It is not clear why Mr. Peppers was not just given a ticket. He had an arrest record that dated back three decades and involved firearm possession, robbery and the sale of crack cocaine; in 2009 he was released from prison, where he has spent much of his adult life. But he and his lawyer said there was no warrant for his arrest.

In interviews, public defenders who represent many of the passengers arrested say their clients tend to be among the working class, often kitchen workers who are exhausted as they begin or end long shifts at Manhattan restaurants. Lawyers say many of the cases originate on the F train at the Rockefeller Center stop.

In a recent decision, a Brooklyn judge, Noach Dear, dismissed the case of a man cited for taking up more than one seat on an A train at 3:10 a.m. on Dec. 24. “There appears to be a disconnect between the code’s goals and its enforcement,” Judge Dear wrote in his decision. He said that he and other Brooklyn judges had found these arrests happened “late at night or early in the morning when subways are generally at their least crowded levels.”

Some cases have cost the city. In November, court records show, New York City paid $150,000 to Juan Castillo, a diabetic, who was arrested for putting his feet on a subway seat after he briefly lifted his leg to inject himself with insulin while riding a Manhattan-bound F train to work. Police officers put him in jail and refused to give him access to his insulin for 30 hours, Mr. Castillo said in court papers. He ended up hospitalized for two days.

The city is now defending itself against a lawsuit brought by Abdi Omar, a 30-year-old messenger who was arrested on Sept. 1 at 10:40 p.m. and charged with having his feet on a subway seat. Mr. Omar said that an officer told him after removing him from the train that there was an outstanding warrant for his arrest, which he denied. When Mr. Omar refused to be fingerprinted without proof of a warrant, officers sent him to Bellevue Hospital Center for a psychiatric evaluation, according to Mr. Omar’s suit. Ultimately, it says, the police never produced a warrant for Mr. Omar; he contested the seat summons and won.

Paul J. Browne, the New York Police Department’s chief spokesman, said enforcement of subway regulations had made the transit system much safer.

“One of the reasons that crime on the subways has plummeted from almost 50 crimes a day in 1990 to only seven now is because the N.Y.P.D. enforces violations large and small, often encountering armed or wanted felons engaged in relatively minor offenses, like putting their feet up, smoking on a platform, walking or riding between cars, or fare beating,” Mr. Browne said.

In April, for instance, the police arrested a 19-year-old man, Kyron Hughes, for stretching out across a number of subway seats. After officers at the police station recognized him from a wanted poster, Mr. Hughes was charged with a string of robberies, Mr. Browne said.

In another episode, officers arrested a man for taking up two seats in car at 3 a.m., and later discovered he was a suspect in a gunpoint robbery, Mr. Browne said.

Steven Banks, the chief attorney for the city’s Legal Aid Society, which represents many riders arrested for seat violations, suggested that police officers who make arrests for seat violations are driven by the prospect of overtime pay and the pressure to produce arrests periodically.

Some of the arrests are made by the Police Department’s homeless outreach unit, even though many of those arrested are not homeless. Defense lawyers suggested in interviews that homeless outreach officers found these arrests easier to make than their primary job, coaxing homeless people into shelters.

“It is far easier to give the back of the hand than a helping hand,” Mr. Banks said.

One police officer who works in the transit system acknowledged that there were a lot of “petty arrests,” but he said that officers were under pressure from supervisors to “bring in one collar” each month. The officer, speaking anonymously, was generally disdainful of making arrests for seat violations, but pointed out that stopping people on these charges allowed officers to check them for outstanding warrants.

“It quite often happens with people laying down on the seats — sure, it could be an empty train, but you stop them and if they don’t have their ID, you have your collar,” he said.

Many defense lawyers question if the Police Department has taken these cases too far.

Michael Weaver, 20, a construction worker, was heading home to Harlem after having Thanksgiving dinner with his girlfriend’s family. As he rode an empty E train, Mr. Weaver said, he nodded off and his right knee and thigh leaned on the empty seat next to him. Just before 1 a.m., he said, he was jolted awake by a police officer who accused him of taking up more than one seat.

After he spent the night in a cell with two dozen men, he appeared before Judge Toko Serita. The judge offered to dismiss the case if he stayed out of trouble for six months.

“This is one of those cases that makes people lose faith in our criminal justice system,” Joel Schmidt, the Legal Aid lawyer representing Mr. Weaver, said at his arraignment. “Makes me wonder what our police officers are really doing at 1 o’clock in the morning.”

An extreme result was the deportation of Flavio Uzhca. Mr. Uzhca, a 32-year-old line chef from Ecuador, was returning home to Woodside, Queens, from his gym before 8 p.m. on March 10.

When he stood at the door of a packed No. 7 train, an officer escorted him off and asked to see identification, he said in an e-mail. Mr. Uzhca said he showed identification from Ecuador. By the time he was arraigned, the authorities learned that an immigration judge had issued an order in 2002 for his deportation.

Mr. Uzhca called his bosses the owners of Bistro Vendome, a French restaurant in Midtown where he worked, to tell them he would not be at work that day. He never did return.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/07/nyregion/minor-offense-on-ny-subway-can-bring-ticket-or-handcuffs.html?_r=1

scumonkey

January 8th, 2012, 01:41 PM

"Many defense lawyers question if the Police Department has taken these cases too far."
ya think....noooo....really?:rolleyes:

stache

January 8th, 2012, 02:17 PM

All part of the 'broken windows' school of thought.

lofter1

January 8th, 2012, 04:33 PM

I'll believe the NYPD's stated intention to keep everyone in line when they start enforcing ALL the MTA behavioral Rules of Conduct (http://www.mta.info/nyct/rules/rules.htm) equally and arrest those nappers who I see every time I travel on the subway (not to mention those with mp3 players blasting).

The foot on the seat regulation is part of MTA Code Section 1050.7 Disorderly conduct.

The NO Sleeping regulation and the "your iPod is too damned loud" regulation are both part of the same Code.

stache

January 8th, 2012, 05:39 PM

Please God let them start arresting happy families with the strollers unfurled on trains and platforms.

BPC

January 8th, 2012, 05:42 PM

Relax, if You Want, but Don’t Put Your Feet Up

By JOSEPH GOLDSTEIN and CHRISTINE HAUGHNEY

... It is not clear why Mr. Peppers was not just given a ticket. He had an arrest record that dated back three decades and involved firearm possession, robbery and the sale of crack cocaine; in 2009 he was released from prison, where he has spent much of his adult life. But he and his lawyer said there was no warrant for his arrest.
...
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/07/nyregion/minor-offense-on-ny-subway-can-bring-ticket-or-handcuffs.html?_r=1

I may be a naive sort, but I am willing to trust that the cop saw something from this upstanding citizen beyond just his feet up, and wrote up the ticket that way to keep things simple. I tend to doubt it was just a coincidence that this guy had the record he did. Nor do I immediately conclude that the cop was a racist.

ZippyTheChimp

January 8th, 2012, 06:33 PM

I may be a naive sort, but I am willing to trust that the cop saw something from this upstanding citizen beyond just his feet up, and wrote up the ticket that way to keep things simple.Keep what simple?

H wasn't issued a ticket; he was arrested.

Ninjahedge

January 9th, 2012, 10:58 AM

It is ticket farming.

There is no real reason to do this other than to harass and raise revenue.

You have more of a chance of seeing someone with their feet up on the subway sleeping when it is almost empty at 3am than to even get through a car during rush hour. The real intent of the law is to keep the homeless from sleeping on the cars, but there is no way to enforce this without some general regulation like "no feet up".

The examples seem a little skewed in this story though. The cops should not have needed the feet-up regulation to recognize that 19 year old. Also, who in their right mind tries to do an insulin injection ON a train? Maybe I am mis-reading it (maybe it was an emergency). I don't know.

The arrests make very little sense. They are farming with that. You do not get arrested for Jaywalking unless you cause a scene or are wanted for something else. These guys are just profiling and bringing these guys in in the hopes that they can get something on them.

Blind Justice? Yes. Never blind Enforcement. :(

GordonGecko

January 9th, 2012, 11:48 AM

It is ticket farming, they're meeting their quotas. I think most everyone sees this. The real question in that article is why the guy was thrown in jail while everyone else just walks away with a ticket. IMO it was racially based and the cop had it in for anyone with a criminal record

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2012/01/07/nyregion/JPSEAT/JPSEAT-popup.jpg

But if they insist on quotas I don't understand why they don't just go after more useful quality of life offenses like littering. And there's no reason to book anyone for this stuff, you write the ticket and walk away

lofter1

January 9th, 2012, 11:54 AM

An arrest record for which Peppers had served his time. And he had no outstanding warrants. So why was Pepper arrested and jailed for a misdemeanor infraction? Something is missing from this story.

GordonGecko

January 9th, 2012, 12:07 PM

Please tell me you're not seeking a rational explanation for an NYPD cop throwing his weight around

lofter1

January 9th, 2012, 12:53 PM

Not looking for rationale, but I'd like to know what the arrest report states.

BPC

January 9th, 2012, 01:25 PM

Keep what simple?

H wasn't issued a ticket; he was arrested.

I thought my point was clear. Obviously none of us were there, but before crediting the theory of a "rogue cop arresting innocent black people" (we don't even know the cop's race, fyi), I would tend to believe, based on the fact that the arrestee is a career criminal, that in this instance he was doing more to earn his arrest than simply keeping his feet up on the chair, and the cop just chose to write up the arrest warrant citing that particular infraction. I don't think it's unreasonable to give the benefit of the doubt to the person who has dedicated his life to upholding the law over the person who has dedicated "much of his adult life" to spreading misery through guns and robbery and dealing crack cocaine. Obviously others on this board disagree.

lofter1

January 9th, 2012, 01:47 PM

So the cop tossed the responsibility to somebody else in the NYPD to figure out if the guy really should be incarcerated?

And what did the NYPD find in this case?

ZippyTheChimp

January 9th, 2012, 01:53 PM

I thought my point was clear. Obviously none of us were there, but before crediting the theory of a "rogue cop arresting innocent black people"
I said nothing about whether the action by the police officer was racially motivated, or whether or not he is a rogue. I was commenting on what you said:
...and wrote up the ticket that way to keep things simple.That was the main complaint - why he wasn't issued a ticket rather than be arrested.

Now your changing it to "writing up the arrest warrant."

Police don't write warrants; they make arrests. That's what he did.

career criminal. He was released from prison in 2009 and is employed. Does anyone ever stop being a "career criminal?"

the person who has dedicated his life to upholding the law So you give all police carte blanche do do whatever they want?

A recipe for corruption.

Like you said - naive.

BPC

January 9th, 2012, 08:15 PM

Not carte blanche, but when deciding to whom to give the benefit of the doubt, I choose the cop over the crack dealer / armed robber, even one who claims to have retired from this career in 2009. Strange that others don't, but it's a free country.

ZippyTheChimp

January 9th, 2012, 09:05 PM

Why is it necessary to give anyone the benefit of doubt? Doubt about what? You're the one who's introducing variables into the incident. He wasn't arrested and then charged with something else. Assuming they did a check when they had him in custody, they found nothing, and he pled guilty to the original violation of having his feet up.

And you're making up stuff as you go along. The person arrested didn't claim he "retired from a criminal career;" I asked you at what point anyone retires from that label.

You're going to great lengths to speculate on some other crime that justified the arrest. So far, not even the criminal justice system agrees with you.

JCMAN320

January 9th, 2012, 10:33 PM

Ninja yes I have been at Christopher plenty of times. I haven't been by recently maybe they will put one at the top of the stairs. Nexis yea hurricane winds at 14th and Christopher and 9th as well lol.

Merry

January 10th, 2012, 02:56 AM

K(ey) P(erformance) I(ndicator)s ("numbers on the board...") are a real bummer ("...in my office."), particularly now that the NYPD has (for some time) conclusively proved that they're pointless and meaningless.

God forbid that they would ever consider actually offering encouragement to people who are trying to move on after a life of crime.

"...the person who has dedicated his life to upholding the law..." - Well, that's what they're supposed to be doing :rolleyes:. Giving the benefit of the doubt to anyone isn't the way it should work when making comparisons anyway, but I certainly wouldn't err on the side of the NYPD (or any other police force) by default necessarily.

Ninjahedge

January 10th, 2012, 08:52 AM

Ninjahedge

January 10th, 2012, 08:55 AM

Merry, the hardest part of being a cop in the city is that it is too large to become a part of it. You do not have a beat with people you know and who know you.

If there was some way to make it so that these guys could become more familiar with the people they are supposed to Serve and Protect, then maybe we would see some of these things handled differently (hopefully for the better. Sometimes the home-town cop can be really bad when he wants to be)....

eddhead

January 10th, 2012, 09:04 AM

I thought my point was clear. Obviously none of us were there, but before crediting the theory of a "rogue cop arresting innocent black people" (we don't even know the cop's race, fyi), I would tend to believe, based on the fact that the arrestee is a career criminal, that in this instance he was doing more to earn his arrest than simply keeping his feet up on the chair, and the cop just chose to write up the arrest warrant citing that particular infraction. I don't think it's unreasonable to give the benefit of the doubt to the person who has dedicated his life to upholding the law over the person who has dedicated "much of his adult life" to spreading misery through guns and robbery and dealing crack cocaine. Obviously others on this board disagree.

You go from 0 to 60 prett quickly don't you? On what basis are you claiming he was a 'career' criminal? And on what basis are you speculating that he must have been doing something else more illegal to have been arrested? There is no evidence of that whatsoever.

You are making assumptions that are no way founded in fact and than siding with the officers on the basis of those unverified assumptions. It is a circular arguement.

Ninjahedge

January 10th, 2012, 09:11 AM

He is playing the Perugia game.

State an opinion on what happened and fill in the "facts" later. ;)

BPC

January 10th, 2012, 05:27 PM

You go from 0 to 60 prett quickly don't you? On what basis are you claiming he was a 'career' criminal? And on what basis are you speculating that he must have been doing something else more illegal to have been arrested? There is no evidence of that whatsoever. ....

The first "assumption" is stated in the article. You may wish to re-read it. The second assumption I plainly identified as such, to offer a different, perhaps more plausible explanation than the "racist" cop theory favored by most of the posters on this thread, as to why this particular individual was arrested for an offense that most are only ticketed for. But feel free to go with your racist cop theory. I could care less.

stache

January 10th, 2012, 05:29 PM

Good. Then maybe you'll shut up about it.

ZippyTheChimp

January 10th, 2012, 06:30 PM

He doesn't get off the hook after that piece of bullshit, and adding that he now presumes to know what each of us think.

The first "assumption" is stated in the article. You may wish to re-read it.I can't find it. Why don't you just quote it?

The second assumption I plainly identified as such, to offer a different, perhaps more plausible explanation than the "racist" cop theory favored by most of the posters on this thread, as to why this particular individual was arrested for an offense that most are only ticketed for.To avoid any confusion, is this your assumption?
but I am willing to trust that the cop saw something from this upstanding citizen beyond just his feet up, and wrote up the ticket that way to keep things simple.So how does your assumption hold up to subsequent events? The cop saw something > arrest > 12 hours in jail > fine paid for original misdemeanor.

Merry

January 10th, 2012, 07:41 PM

Ninjahedge

January 11th, 2012, 09:48 AM

I wonder when we can make it so that the cops are penalized for wrongful arrests.

You keep a guy in jail for 12 hours on no charges, that is not public "service". This is not a cop show. Not every person you pull in from the streets needs to be held as long as possible until the evidence comes in from XYZ. If you do not have anything on him when you do a search, you should get his information and let him go.

Keep him and make him miss a day's work? He should AT LEAST be comp'd for that.

eddhead

January 11th, 2012, 04:39 PM

He doesn't get off the hook after that piece of bullshit, and adding that he now presumes to know what each of us think.

I can't find it. Why don't you just quote it?

To avoid any confusion, is this your assumption?So how does your assumption hold up to subsequent events? The cop saw something > arrest > 12 hours in jail > fine paid for original misdemeanor.

What he said. And by the way, who said anything about racism?

Nexis4Jersey

January 14th, 2012, 09:31 PM

IRT Lexington Avenue line @ 28th - 33rd Streets , Spring Street , Wall Street & Bowling Green

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7170/6693255335_38567d5731_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/42178139@N06/6693255335/)
DSCN0885 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/42178139@N06/6693255335/) by Nexis4Jersey09 (http://www.flickr.com/people/42178139@N06/), on Flickr

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7021/6693273183_88bcce77b6_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/42178139@N06/6693273183/)
DSCN0889 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/42178139@N06/6693273183/) by Nexis4Jersey09 (http://www.flickr.com/people/42178139@N06/), on Flickr

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7158/6693273601_eb253533e9_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/42178139@N06/6693273601/)
DSCN0890 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/42178139@N06/6693273601/) by Nexis4Jersey09 (http://www.flickr.com/people/42178139@N06/), on Flickr

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7160/6693274011_558ff265e4_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/42178139@N06/6693274011/)
DSCN0892 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/42178139@N06/6693274011/) by Nexis4Jersey09 (http://www.flickr.com/people/42178139@N06/), on Flickr

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KbgSB8Htv-k

BMT Broadway line @ 23rd & 28th Street

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7003/6694459817_2ce3c4068f_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/42178139@N06/6694459817/)
DSCN0992 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/42178139@N06/6694459817/) by Nexis4Jersey09 (http://www.flickr.com/people/42178139@N06/), on Flickr

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7151/6694437735_b610556f4e_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/42178139@N06/6694437735/)
DSCN0989 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/42178139@N06/6694437735/) by Nexis4Jersey09 (http://www.flickr.com/people/42178139@N06/), on Flickr

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7029/6694405511_a46820b0fd_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/42178139@N06/6694405511/)
DSCN0984 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/42178139@N06/6694405511/) by Nexis4Jersey09 (http://www.flickr.com/people/42178139@N06/), on Flickr

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7148/6694406137_eea92aa61a_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/42178139@N06/6694406137/)
DSCN0985 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/42178139@N06/6694406137/) by Nexis4Jersey09 (http://www.flickr.com/people/42178139@N06/), on Flickr

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1IyuTMpcUYo

BBMW

January 16th, 2012, 12:54 PM

It's not wrongful unless they change the laws. While the infraction was extraordinarily minor, it is an infraction. AFAIK, for something minor like this the cops have the option of giving someone a ticket, or arresting them at their discretion. But legally, the cop did nothing wrong.

Could he have been much less of a hardass? Yes. But the law gives him the discretion to be one. That's what you'd have to change, and I don't see it happening.

I wonder when we can make it so that the cops are penalized for wrongful arrests.

You keep a guy in jail for 12 hours on no charges, that is not public "service". This is not a cop show. Not every person you pull in from the streets needs to be held as long as possible until the evidence comes in from XYZ. If you do not have anything on him when you do a search, you should get his information and let him go.

Keep him and make him miss a day's work? He should AT LEAST be comp'd for that.

lofter1

January 16th, 2012, 01:49 PM

Such smart police "discretion" and use of public services / funds in these hard times. :cool:

I guess stupidity is lawful when used by those with power.

BBMW

January 16th, 2012, 05:59 PM

stupid application of the law isn't illegal, and not all that uncommon.

lofter1

January 16th, 2012, 11:22 PM

That's something for us to aspire to.

stache

January 17th, 2012, 03:01 AM

Aspire to being stupid?

Merry

January 17th, 2012, 04:28 AM

^ No, becoming powerful enough to be able to get away with being stupid ;).

Ninjahedge

January 17th, 2012, 10:13 AM

It's not wrongful unless they change the laws. While the infraction was extraordinarily minor, it is an infraction. AFAIK, for something minor like this the cops have the option of giving someone a ticket, or arresting them at their discretion. But legally, the cop did nothing wrong.

LEGALLY he did nothing wrong does not mean he did nothing wrong.

Unless the Police force changes its motto from "to Serve and Protect" to "STFU and do what I say" then holding someone on no grounds is not doing their job.

Notice I never said it was ILLEGAL to do what they did. I said it should be MADE illegal, or at the very least compensated for any lost wages during an unfounded incarceration.

Could he have been much less of a hardass? Yes. But the law gives him the discretion to be one. That's what you'd have to change, and I don't see it happening.

I do not see it happening either if many people have the same *shrug*/whatever kind of attitude. People are always so banal abou this kind of thing until it happens to them. The only time things change is when the wrong person, or too many people, are treated this way.

That should not be how it works.

Hamilton

January 18th, 2012, 02:12 AM

Whether the cop legally does anything wrong or not, policemen often forget that they are public service employees on the taxpayer's dime, whose job it is to protect the citizenry. If they're wasting their time harassing people for bogus infractions, they are wasting taxpayer money, and failing to do their job efficiently. The taxpayers, as their bosses, have a right to be up in arms about the waste of resources.

BBMW

January 18th, 2012, 04:32 PM

Ninjahedge

January 18th, 2012, 04:54 PM

BBMW, that has little, if anything, to do with the contention.

Why did they keep the guy for 12 hours for a minor infraction?

FAIL

Most are not contesting if he did something wrong, but the action not fitting the offense.

lofter1

January 18th, 2012, 10:51 PM

Where there are rules, they should be inforced.

The "rule" here was to give the guy a ticket. Or, for a cop with a brain, to say "You've gotta take your feet off the seat."

ZippyTheChimp

January 19th, 2012, 09:06 AM

^
If it's a bogus infraction, "the taxpayers" should pressure whoever imposed the rules (the MTA, in this case) to get rid of the rules. Where there are rules, they should be inforced. Where there are stupid rules, the should be removed.The MTA isn't authorized to make rules for arrest.

Police officers are trained and authorized to use deadly force when they decide it's necessary. Every time they interface with the public, there's the potential that a situation will escalate out of control.

BBMW

January 19th, 2012, 08:21 PM

The MTA isn't authorized to make rules for arrest.

The can set rules for conduct on the subways (and buses, etc.). State law allows the police to arrest people for violating the rules of the MTA on their property. If the MTA got rid of the rule in question, the cops couldn't arrest people for violating it. I don't know if there is a mechanism in the authorizing law to allow the MTA to define the severity of the rule violation and the desired police response to it. I think, in general, the city and state want the cops to have some discretion in dealing with situation that come up (the whole ticket vs. arrest thing.)

Police officers are trained and authorized to use deadly force when they decide it's necessary. Every time they interface with the public, there's the potential that a situation will escalate out of control.

I think you're being a tad melodramatic. The police, by the nature of their work, have to interface with the public on a regular basis.

ZippyTheChimp

January 19th, 2012, 09:39 PM

The can set rules for conduct on the subways (and buses, etc.).Then you say...

State law allows the police to arrest people for violating the rules of the MTA on their property.In other words, the MTA doesn't set rules for arrest.

What I said.

I think you're being a tad melodramatic. The police, by the nature of their work, have to interface with the public on a regular basis.Non sequitur.

I linked another post to this thread. Perhaps I should link this back. (http://wirednewyork.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3839&page=14&p=386743&viewfull=1#post386743)

lofter1

January 20th, 2012, 07:35 PM

The Love Police take a ride uptown on the R Train ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Y3hWXoBTU0

BBMW

January 21st, 2012, 02:00 PM

Then you say...

In other words, the MTA doesn't set rules for arrest.

What I said.

Who sets the rules of conduct for the transit system? The MTA. Does state law authorize the police to to ticket or arrest (at their discretion) people who violate those rules? Yes. I was suggesting that maybe they rule that the subject of the article posted above violated might be arbitrary, and should be eliminated. That would be done by the MTA. What's your problem?

Non sequitur.

I linked another post to this thread. Perhaps I should link this back. (http://wirednewyork.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3839&page=14&p=386743&viewfull=1#post386743)

Whatever. If the police have discretion, there's not guarantee how they'll use it.

ZippyTheChimp

January 21st, 2012, 03:45 PM

Who sets the rules of conduct for the transit system? The MTA. Does state law authorize the police to to ticket or arrest (at their discretion) people who violate those rules? Yes. I was suggesting that maybe they rule that the subject of the article posted above violated might be arbitrary, and should be eliminated. That would be done by the MTA. What's your problem?What's your problem with the police using discretion?

A rule by the MTA isn't a law which forces the police officer to make an arrest. The majority of recorded incidents resulted in a summons. What's unknown is the number of times a police officer simply said, "Put your feet down." There's nothing wrong with the rule; it doesn't force an arrest. The suggestion is that other factors "force" the arrest.

Haven't you ever had contact with the police where they simply let you go?

Whatever. If the police have discretion, there's not guarantee how they'll use it.Would you rather have a police force that doesn't think?

GordonGecko

January 23rd, 2012, 01:05 PM

For some strange reason, the MTA has decided to completely close the Court St station on the 7 line until April 2, which is the only transfer point from the G train.

They appear to be removing or replacing the siding along the platform which is currently a cream color. They just removed all the advertisement boards from that siding, and interestingly that revealed decades old graffitti that had never been painted over. If you pass through on the 7 train, you can see big squares of authentic vintage NYC vandalism among the clean cream colored walls

ramvid01

January 23rd, 2012, 05:32 PM

^^ I noticed this the other day and was unable to grab any pictures of it but it was truely odd to see. At first I thought graffitti was back then realized that the adverts were gone.

BBMW

January 24th, 2012, 01:31 AM

What's your problem with the police using discretion?

A rule by the MTA isn't a law which forces the police officer to make an arrest. The majority of recorded incidents resulted in a summons. What's unknown is the number of times a police officer simply said, "Put your feet down." There's nothing wrong with the rule; it doesn't force an arrest. The suggestion is that other factors "force" the arrest.

Haven't you ever had contact with the police where they simply let you go?

Would you rather have a police force that doesn't think?

I think you're reading me the wrong way. I'm suggesting the rule that passengers may only take up one seat maybe needs to go. I'm fine with the cops have the discretion to arrest or ticket (or do nothing.)

Merry

January 24th, 2012, 05:12 AM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q7nb7kTaqmI&feature=player_embedded

ZippyTheChimp

January 24th, 2012, 09:26 AM

I think you're reading me the wrong way. I'm suggesting the rule that passengers may only take up one seat maybe needs to go. I'm fine with the cops have the discretion to arrest or ticket (or do nothing.)There's really nothing wrong with the rule. Many rules are ambiguous enough to cover different situations, leaving it up to authorities to determine what sort of response is appropriate.

So using a seat for a package should be OK in an empty car, but not in a crowded one.

Nexis4Jersey

February 8th, 2012, 07:51 AM

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7002/6839264501_cb6bb321f0_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/42178139@N06/6839264501/)
DSCN1656 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/42178139@N06/6839264501/) by Nexis4Jersey09 (http://www.flickr.com/people/42178139@N06/), on Flickr

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7016/6839264737_0f32b6af72_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/42178139@N06/6839264737/)
DSCN1657 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/42178139@N06/6839264737/) by Nexis4Jersey09 (http://www.flickr.com/people/42178139@N06/), on Flickr

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=92DHpcKmP9I

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E7U4Hg2NLB4

Nexis4Jersey

February 18th, 2012, 06:55 PM

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7059/6897234903_1acf234342_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/42178139@N06/6897234903/)
DSCN1870 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/42178139@N06/6897234903/) by Nexis4Jersey09 (http://www.flickr.com/people/42178139@N06/), on Flickr

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xxD6B2PlRrY

Nexis4Jersey

February 27th, 2012, 10:17 AM

I guess there changing the announcements once again...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oxRrq2B9yDg

Merry

April 26th, 2012, 08:15 AM

The surprising return of the three-borough 'X line' subway

By Dana Rubinstein

http://www.capitalnewyork.com/files/a-TriboroRX.jpg
The 'X line'. Regional Plan Association

To the surprise of the idea’s originators, Manhattan Borough President Scott Stringer earlier this month unearthed a dusty old proposal for a new subway line that would serve the outer boroughs.

“The X Line would connect all but three subway lines in the city and join Brooklyn, Queens and the Bronx, which no other line does today,” said Stringer, speaking to a room full of New York establishment types at a breakfast (http://www.capitalnewyork.com/article/politics/2012/04/5719496/stringer-strong-case-be-made-albany-transit-dedicated-taxes)hosted by the Association for a Better New York.

“Here’s why it’s not a pipe dream: The line is built entirely along existing rights of way,” said Stringer. “That means no tunneling, which is the biggest hurdle in this day and age to building new subways.”

Stringer’s championing of the X line took some transportation advocates (pleasantly) aback.

“It was a total surprise,” said Jeff Zupan, a senior fellow for transportation at the Regional Plan Association, which issued the 1996 report in which the proposal, also known as the Triboro RX, was raised. “As a matter of fact, where he learned of it we have no idea.”

The idea goes something like this.

There are, for the most part, existing freight tracks running from Bay Ridge up through Queens and across the Hell Gate Bridge into the Bronx. Freight traffic on those rails is light. And there is, theoretically, enough space alongside them to accommodate some form of commuter rail.

“It doesn’t have to be a subway type car,” said Zupan. “It could be somewhat smaller, but still operate as a train with multiple cars.”

The train would run above ground and intersect with nearly every subway line in the city, avoiding Manhattan altogether.

Aside from the question of financing—no number has been put on just how much this project would cost—there are other potential hang-ups. First, Stringer’s proposal could conflict with his political mentor Rep. Jerry Nadler’s longstanding desire (http://articles.nydailynews.com/1997-12-02/local/18045048_1_greenville-yards-rail-freight-tunnel) to see the Bay Ridge railyard used as the terminus of a cross-harbor freight tunnel (http://nadler.house.gov/press-release/nadler-introduces-freight-rail-economic-development-act-2012). Further, the Federal Railroad Administration requires a certain distance between freight and passenger trains that share rights of way, and it's not clear whether the existing right of way is, legally, wide enough.

“So the question is whether the F.R.A. criteria can be overcome,” says Zupan.

Though other aspects of the association's 1996 report took root, namely the jumpstarting of the Second Avenue subway and East Side Access, the X line basically vanished.
“Some things stick to the wall and happen and some things don’t,” says Zupan.

In 2008, before the recession rendered discussion of such expansion plans impracticable, former M.T.A. chairman Elliot Sander resurrected the idea (http://www.mta.info/mta/news/releases/?en=080303-HQ5) in a 40-year plan he presented at the Cooper Union.

Now, Sander chairs the Regional Plan Association, where the idea originated.

His old employer is not inclined to consider X train anytime soon.

In an email, M.T.A. spokesman Adam Lisberg said the authority has more pressing concerns.

“MTA never formally backed it, and the whole 40th-anniversary package it was part of has long since been set aside as we deal with our current financial situation,” he said.

http://www.capitalnewyork.com/article/politics/2012/04/5772951/surprising-return-three-borough-x-line-subway

Ninjahedge

April 26th, 2012, 09:11 AM

I have been saying for YEARS that they need some radial lines on this spider web.

All lines go into and out of Manhattan. To go 3 miles from Queens to Brooklyn you have to do so via the financial district (in some cases).

This is good....

GordonGecko

April 26th, 2012, 10:37 AM

Anybody here have Google maps API skills to draw this thing out?

vanshnookenraggen

April 26th, 2012, 11:21 AM

I wrote about it in my expansion plan : http://www.vanshnookenraggen.com/_index/2010/08/the-futurenycsubway-tribororx-atlantic-ave-express/

Don't confuse it with the Atlantic Ave Express line which is a different proposal, one of my own making.

Nexis4Jersey

April 27th, 2012, 04:07 AM

Unlikely to happen , the LIRR is not likely to give up there Atlantic Branch so easily. I do see the Atlantic Branch being extended into Lower Manhattan one day...maybe not for 2 decades , but the need is there. Same with restoring service on the Central Branch to ease congestion on the Main line , and reconnecting the West Hempstead Branch to the Hempstead Branch and reconnecting various other abandoned LIRR branches and lines. The LIRR takes forever in doing things whether they be small or large scale , so it may take 2 or 3 decades before we see movement to Lower Manhattan but it is needed in my opinion. A Larger / restored Regional Rail network will new connections to Grand Central , Fulton , Union SQ from Jersey , Long Island , and the Northern suburbs is needed to take pressure off the subway system which is at or over capacity on many lines in Manhattan and the PATH could use some relief.

GordonGecko

April 27th, 2012, 10:13 AM

I would be happy to see at least a Queens / Bronx link with a stop at Randall's Island

Nexis4Jersey

April 27th, 2012, 05:05 PM

I would be happy to see at least a Queens / Bronx link with a stop at Randall's Island

The Problem is how do you get over the Hell Gate , Subway cars cannot share with Regional Rail cars due to FRA regs and safety....it would probably have to be regional rail and i would like to see it extend into Staten Island and Central NJ aswell..

ramvid01

April 29th, 2012, 01:05 AM

^^ I believe I read somewhere that the Hells Gate bridge could accomodate 4 tracks and that it currently only uses 3 (2 for passenger one for freight).

Couldn't it in theory have 2 tracks just for Amtrak and another 2 for the subway (shared with the freight)?

Nexis4Jersey

April 29th, 2012, 05:19 AM

Freight is heavy Rail and cannot mix with subways hench why the PATH is a commuter railroad and not a subway. With the restoration of Commuter Service along the Hell Gate line later this decade all tracks will be restored to although for MNRR trains to use the bridge and route without messing up Amtrak's capacity... Which then knocks out the Triboro X completely...unless they go with EMUs and a commuter rail format.

marnegator

April 29th, 2012, 08:48 PM

^ Restore the fourth track and dedicate two each to an X train and the triumvirate of Amtrak, Metro-North, and freight. Amtrak and Metro-North don't have schedules that would seriously tax a two-track ROW, so this sort of arraignment should work out well. Likewise, little freight uses the line and should any conflicts arise with passenger rail, do what's done elsewhere on the NEC: force it to use night hours. If the FRA says that the subway cars would potentially get too close to freight trains, lobby for a waiver (or just reform the bloody organization into something sensible).

Nexis4Jersey

April 29th, 2012, 09:31 PM

But the Amtrak master plans call for 1-2 restored tracks as part of a NEC capacity increase....The RPA did not fully think this plan out... To allow Metro North to operate on the Hell Gate line , another track needs to be added to allow for a Capacity Increase and from what some of the Plans call for is full restoration of both tracks..which would one day extend the 4 track NEC from New Rochelle to Newark Penn...which is needed over an X subway line. Freight only uses 1 track and only a few moves a day , once the Hell Gate line is restored and full service is added 4 tracks will be needed...not 3... The 3rd track is for a starter system....but a fourth will be added soon after that... They can probably build an under truss on the Hell Gate and the Subway can use that...but that would be very expensive. I don't see why its so hard to expand the Regional Rail network and make the X train a city Rail type train....it would be easier and cheaper to build and you can loop it into Grand Central....so Grand Central to Bay Ridge via the South Bronx , Central Queens and Central Brooklyn,. To also get the FRA to budge is like trying to get something done in Congress....it takes time and often doesn't happen.

marnegator

May 1st, 2012, 10:20 AM

"Grand Central to Bay Ridge via the South Bronx , Central Queens and Central Brooklyn"? How does that even work? Besides, the point should be for easy radial travel, not circuitous travel from the periphery to Midtown.
Like I wrote above, four tracks is sufficient for a double-tracked ROW for Amtrak, Metro-North, and freight with the two other tracks for the X train. Metro-North currently runs 20 trains during busiest peak hours (8:00-9:00 in the AM, 5:00-6:00 in the PM). Assuming Metro-North splits its New Haven branch traffic in half–be it because Manhattan's west side becomes an employment center of equal draw as eastern Midtown or because NJT and Metro-North combine their schedules to do some through-running–and adding in Amtrak, which only has 3 peak-direction trains in the AM and 6 in the PM, you have 16 trains per hour at peak of peak hours; this is hardly problematic for existing signaling systems and leaves room for growth for both railroads on that ROW (and again freight can be relegated to overnight hours).
As regards an X train, here's why it should be a part of the subway and not a a part of an operationally integrated regional rail system: rapid transit rolling stock advantage. Assuming no FRA changes and using existing rolling stock, an R160 car costs $1.3 million (so as seen in service, two 4-car sets costs $10.4 million and two 5-car sets costs $13 million) while an M7 married pair costs $4.5 million, so even an M7 train of just 6 cars costs more than a 10 car subway train while providing quite a lot less passenger capacity, as well as the problems associated with having 2 vs 4 doors. Subway rolling stock is also higher performance, so considering the relatively short spacing between the proposed X train stations versus what a commuter train would normally deal with, subway rolling stock would get around faster (2.5 mph/s vs 2 mph/s). Let's also not forget little details like the reduced energy consumption and lighter axle-load (reducing wear on the rails and long term maintenance costs) either.

Ninjahedge

May 1st, 2012, 11:29 AM

Mar... use the enter key... ;)

It makes a huge block of text like that easier to read! (You too N4J!!!)

Nexis4Jersey

May 1st, 2012, 02:33 PM

Sorry about the lack of spaces......

The Hell Gate only has room for 5 tracks , so seeing how Amtrak and MNRR want 4 tracks there will be no room for the X Train. Regional and National Rail trump over city rail....HSR is badly needed in this region , thats part of the reason for the 4 tracks.... If the X Train was IRT which means it would be an "8" Train then you could add a 6th track to the Hell Gate.

GordonGecko

May 1st, 2012, 02:45 PM

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7206/6887870111_ccbba292d1_b.jpg

http://farm5.staticflickr.com/4069/4281893015_1f1e79a4ce_b.jpg

Nexis4Jersey

May 1st, 2012, 03:22 PM

So its 4 tracks , not even 5....so theres no room at all for an X subway unless it were a 3rd Rail / Overhead Commuter rail...

http://farm5.staticflickr.com/4114/4741119690_d5cf18861c_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/ensel/4741119690/)
Untitled (http://www.flickr.com/photos/ensel/4741119690/) by devb. (http://www.flickr.com/people/ensel/), on Flickr

http://farm5.staticflickr.com/4077/4741119676_b7af30ca24_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/ensel/4741119676/)
Untitled (http://www.flickr.com/photos/ensel/4741119676/) by devb. (http://www.flickr.com/people/ensel/), on Flickr

Ninjahedge

May 1st, 2012, 04:57 PM

Side question.

I was just at the Lexinton Avenue station on the F line and I noticed that it seems to only occupy half the tunnel space.

I do not ever remember it being completely open, but the tunnel apexes at the center of the escalators, and seems to be about 2/3 full vertically (or less) when you go to the lower platform.

What is the rest "filled" with? I know that they are probably using some of it for utilities across the east river, possibly to RI, but there seems to be a lot of unused space (and recent construction) in that large tube.

Nexis4Jersey

May 1st, 2012, 05:56 PM

It appears to part of SAS and ESA...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lexington_Avenue_%E2%80%93_63rd_Street_(IND_63rd_S treet_Line)

marnegator

May 1st, 2012, 07:47 PM

Actually Nexis, there's space for six tracks: there are guideways cantilevered off the sides of the Hell Gate. In GordonGecko's first picture, notice the small openings on the tower pier: the guideways begin / end there. You can likewise notice them in the second of GordonGecko's pictures, where the wood panels lie. (It's a curious thing that the bridge was built with such provisions but the approach viaducts only wide enough for four tracks.) Problem is that they were designed for trolleys, so I have no idea if they could support the weight of a subway car or above. It may be the sturdy Hell Gate, but I will assume for our purposes that they can not.

I remained unconvinced of the need for four tracks for Metro-North and Amtrak. The signaling technology going back to the early 20th century could support 30 trains per hour, almost double the amount of service presently seen on this ROW; if Amtrak thinks it needs to be separate from Metro-North, it's only because it's not willing to work with Metro-North. I again point to the fact that the busiest time of day only sees 16 tph, six of them Amtrak's.

Let's give Metro-North and Amtrak 15 tph for the ROW, a 50% increase in Metro-North service and more than doubling Amtrak's service... proper coordination and cooperation would yield significant service increase for relatively little money while also preserving two tracks for the X train.

Perhaps you're afraid HSR trains will be bogged down? Well, the ROW over the Hell Gate is far from ideal, so even top quality HSR rolling stock won't be going too fast. Instead, give MNRR higher performing rolling stock (courtesy of an FRA waiver or structural reform) so that the infrastructurally hobbled HSR train won't be additionally saddled with slower regional trains. (They won't lose too much time over that distance anyway.)

More radically, I propose operating MNRR and Amtrak like local and express trains in Connecticut. Have the locals (MNRR) run to Grand Central and the express trains (Amtrak) to Penn Station. Rebuild New Rochelle Station with island platforms and schedule the trains so that the largest number of trains possible offer immediate cross-platform transfers (although at 15 tph each, one would only have to wait four minutes at most). Offer heavily discounted tickets for commuters on Amtrak for the New Haven route. Japan Rail does this for their HSR trains in at least some Japanese metropolitan areas, so why not do that here?

If the volume of commuters seems a problem for Amtrak, lengthen the trains (and any necessary platforms of course), maybe even have reserved carriages for the premium-paying long distance travelers.

The whole point is this: why sacrifice a highly useful and cheap-to-build subway line for a problem that has more than one possible solution? If you say my ideas requires too many regulatory hurdles and that it's easier to spend many billions more with the sacrifice of a future X train, then I would hope we don't even bother. This is a problem that needs intra-organizational cooperation and thoughtful planning, not spending billions on infrastructure when there's an underutilized ROW present.

Nexis4Jersey

May 1st, 2012, 09:27 PM

When your running 40 trains per hour , with 20 slow trains and 20 high speed trains you need 4 tracks to run an efficient Railroad....future wise the NEC will carry 1 Million people a day....4 tracks running from Boston to DC will be needed to make sure everything runs perfectly. There are alot of sections on Metro North and LIRR that are 4 tracks , even with modern signaling you need more tracks. The Original Hell Gate line had up to 8 tracks in some parts.... Amtrak is targeting a goal of 2030 for all the NYC upgrades....which means 4 tracks along the Hell Gate line and 2 New Tunnels under the Hudson and 5 tracks to Penn station Newark.... Once the Catenary is replaced in CT which should be by 2025 it will be upgraded to 125mph....or higher if some curves are fixed. If Amtrak replaces the Pelham Bridge by 2030 , the line speeds will go up to 125mph.... I'm thinking about the current situation , im thinking 40 years ahead.....which is what the orignal Railroad builders did.... You can put the X Train on a hanging truss beneath the Hell Gate Bridge... Amtrak kinda already does what you propose , the MNRR will allow Amtrak to free up capacity on some of its regional trains....

http://farm5.staticflickr.com/4024/4687269333_3016e2f4aa_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/42178139@N06/4687269333/)
NYC NEC plan (http://www.flickr.com/photos/42178139@N06/4687269333/) by Nexis4Jersey09 (http://www.flickr.com/people/42178139@N06/), on Flickr

ramvid01

May 1st, 2012, 10:43 PM

I was just at the Lexinton Avenue station on the F line and I noticed that it seems to only occupy half the tunnel space.

Like Nexis said its part of the Second Avenue Subway. The platforms of that station are suppose to be island platforms not side tracks, but since the 2nd avenue subway was not built yet there was no reason to take down that red tiled wall. Once the 2nd avenue line opens up, the Q train will stop on the other side of that wall but of course there will be no such wall.

Nexis, while I understand the need for 4 tracks, those plans for HSR are based on the assumption that the following government administration would be in favor of devoting billions of dollars for one rail line and that no delays would occur between now and 2030. Why not try to build out Triborough RX now and figure out how to manage all those trains when the time actually comes that the government will pour in all that money.

Nexis4Jersey

May 1st, 2012, 11:07 PM

Regardless of HSR , the NEC needs capacity upgrades , more and more people are using it and and more and more trains are as well. I'm tired of NY per say mucking up NEC upgrades , unlike other states NY will not pay its fair share. Instead it pitches stupid plans like this , the Hell Gate line upgraded is expected to cost around 200 Million... If the Hell Gate isn't upgraded and the MNRR is allowed to start up service which is very unlikely to happen with out 3 and 4 tracks being re-installing , we are going to see NJ NEC problems. Its not fair to hold the regional rail network hostage for one subway line...Actually the true HSR doesn't even use the Hell Gate , it will run under NYC from Penn to GCT then Westchester , but the Heavily used Shore line which has grown by 25% since last year will run on the Hell Gate. Amtrak hopes to add at least 10 more trains per hr , which you then more tracks. The Upgrades are underway as we speak in terms of prepping for all this.... The Wires and ROW are being replaced and cleaned up for future track re-installation...which could start in 2016.... The Triboro RX is at least 15 years out...it hasn't even started the process of studies , and Engineering....which takes forever in this region. The Hell Gate has gone through most of that and just needs funded which the MTA said shouldn't be an issue...

marnegator

May 1st, 2012, 11:07 PM

When your running 40 trains per hour , with 20 slow trains and 20 high speed trains
Where did I say 40 tph? I said 15 each for Metro-North and Amtrak, which is certainly doable, and service requirements will not not even truly necessitate that for many years to come. When you can legitimately predict real capacity constraints (and not Amtrak's grandiose plans to build more tracks and platforms than is warranted), then you can being planning for a separate ROW.

The Original Hell Gate line had up to 8 tracks in some parts
Irrelevant because it had more to do with freight terminals in the Bronx, and only for a short distance. Also, HSR and regional trains around the world share some degree of tracks near their terminals and like I wrote earlier, they would be running on a relatively slow ROW and sharing a similar speed, costing HSR mere minutes.

Amtrak is targeting a goal of 2030 for all the NYC upgrades....which means 4 tracks along the Hell Gate line and 2 New Tunnels under the Hudson and 5 tracks to Penn station Newark
It's a dream list for an organization that barely speaks to other agencies, not a works-in-progress list. It's also not incompatible with my suggestion of harmonizing railroad operations and having Amtrak have elusive use of the center express tracks in Connecticut for use as an express train in commuter rail territory with lengthened trains and providing discounted commuter tickets between New York and New Haven; the same logic could apply to New Jersey Transit's NEC line to provide regional thru-running (especially if two additional Hudson tunnels and associated tracks in New Jersey were built).

If Amtrak replaces the Pelham Bridge by 2030 , the line speeds will go up to 125mph
Read my above suggestion (and previous post): Amtrak wouldn't be bothered because it would ideally be the sole user, used as the New Haven line Penn Station / express trains. If it must be MNRR and Amtrak, there is nothing preventing MNRR from buying better performing rolling stock with an FRA waiver or Amtrak just accepting the couple minutes loss from what would be a short ROW anyway. After all, where lies the greatest potential for increasing the woefully low average speed of the Acela? Connecticut, not around the Hell Gate. Read Alon Levy's post on the FRA (http://pedestrianobservations.wordpress.com/2011/05/27/the-problem-is-the-fra-not-amtrak/) and Amtrak (http://pedestrianobservations.wordpress.com/2011/07/26/followup-on-the-fra-and-amtrak/).

You can put the X Train on a hanging truss beneath the Hell Gate Bridge
Where would it go? The bridge could probably easily support the weight, but the masonry towers and arch itself are in the way at the ends. The approach viaducts also have their support pillars in the way. The only way to do as you suggest would require a complete rebuilding of the viaducts and serious structural modifications of the Hell Gate itself.

Amtrak kinda already does what you propose , the MNRR will allow Amtrak to free up capacity on some of its regional trains
You misunderstand, because Amtrak neither schedules for all of its few trains passing New Haven to provide timed transfers nor does it have a ticket sharing program with Metro-North. Scheduling their trains so that they interfere less is appropriate, but scheduling for passenger convenience is something they need to do much more of.

Nexis4Jersey

May 3rd, 2012, 09:02 AM

The MTA's Newest Toy , the R156
http://www.mta.info/news/stories/images/IMG_8858_mid-size.jpg
http://www.mta.info/news/stories/?story=663

Subway riders are quite familiar with MTA New York City Transit's fleet of 6,300 stainless steel subway cars, but what they may not realize is that we also have an impressive roster of specially-designed diesel-electric locomotives ready, willing and able to haul work trains to the farthest segments of the subway system.
NYC Transit maintains a fleet of 62 diesel-electric locomotives that haul work trains and pumping equipment into sections of track where power to the third rail has been turned off to facilitate capital construction, maintenance work or repair damage. On May 1st, the first of 28 new locomotives was delivered to NYCT's facilities.
The locomotive was loaded onto a flat car in Boise, Idaho two weeks prior and shipped cross-country over the rails and then off-loaded onto NYCT's tracks at Linden Yard. The locomotive will ultimately be transported to the Coney Island Shop for completion of conformance testing and other commissioning activities. All 28 locomotives are expected to be delivered by mid-2013. The new locomotives will add much needed resources to the existing fleet as well as replacing several units that have seen nearly a half century of service in the system.
Manufactured by MotivePower, Inc., this new fleet of diesel-electric switcher locomotives, termed R156, is custom designed and manufactured to meet NYCT's unique requirements such as tight tunnel clearances and strict weight limitations for bridges and elevated tracks. The units boast enhanced crew comfort and safety features, improved reliability and maintainability, and produce lower exhaust-level emissions than older equipment.
The R156 uses some of the latest NYCT subway passenger car components, which are service-proven and will result in more reliable operation and increased maintenance efficiency. The locomotives offer significant technological improvements, including AC propulsion, higher-horsepower, improved fuel efficiency, advanced emissions reduction technology and microprocessor controls. They also meet the latest crashworthiness and safety standards recommended by NYCT's Office of System Safety.
The locomotives feature an independent heating and battery charging (layover) system powered by a small diesel engine to keep the main engine warm during cold weather and provide auxiliary power to operate the lights and HVAC system, and to charge the batteries. This modern system reduces overall diesel engine emissions and while reducing fuel consumption during cold weather operations.
Additional features include advanced instrumentation and electronics, including a monitoring and diagnostic system with enhanced software, an automatic fire suppression system, and a sophisticated wheel slip and slide detection system. The new locomotive will also have cabinet space, electrical conduits and cabling allocated for future Communications Based Train Control (CBTC) implementation.
These units are definitely the 21st-century versions of the Little Locomotive That Can.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q09JgHgw33A