WTC Memorial Pavilion - Visitors Center - by Snohetta

[ZippyTheChimp]

Nikkor 28-200mm

Settings:
95mm
F/13
1/125 sec

[scumonkey]

Thank you VERY much (quite nice for a zoom)!

[ZippyTheChimp]

http://img225.imageshack.us/img225/8611/wtc205c.th.jpg (http://img225.imageshack.us/i/wtc205c.jpg/) http://img17.imageshack.us/img17/3445/wtc206c.th.jpg (http://img17.imageshack.us/i/wtc206c.jpg/) http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/2844/wtc207c.th.jpg (http://img137.imageshack.us/i/wtc207c.jpg/) http://img408.imageshack.us/img408/9595/wtc208c.th.jpg (http://img408.imageshack.us/i/wtc208c.jpg/)

[lofter1]

Friday ...

http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p242/Lofter1/WTC/WTC%20Memorial%20Pavilion%20Snohetta/101210_WTCMemPav_01.jpg

http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p242/Lofter1/WTC/WTC%20Memorial%20Pavilion%20Snohetta/101210_WTCMemPav_02.jpg

http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p242/Lofter1/WTC/WTC%20Memorial%20Pavilion%20Snohetta/101210_WTCMemPav_03.jpg

http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p242/Lofter1/WTC/WTC%20Memorial%20Pavilion%20Snohetta/101210_WTCMemPav_04.jpg

http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p242/Lofter1/WTC/WTC%20Memorial%20Pavilion%20Snohetta/101210_WTCMemPav_05.jpg

http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p242/Lofter1/WTC/WTC%20Memorial%20Pavilion%20Snohetta/101210_WTCMemPav_06.jpg

http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p242/Lofter1/WTC/WTC%20Memorial%20Pavilion%20Snohetta/101210_WTCMemPav_07.jpg

http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p242/Lofter1/WTC/WTC%20Memorial%20Pavilion%20Snohetta/101210_WTCMemPav_08.jpg

http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p242/Lofter1/WTC/WTC%20Memorial%20Pavilion%20Snohetta/101210_WTCMemPav_09.jpg

http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p242/Lofter1/WTC/WTC%20Memorial%20Pavilion%20Snohetta/101210_WTCMemPav_10.jpg

http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p242/Lofter1/WTC/WTC%20Memorial%20Pavilion%20Snohetta/101210_WTCMemPav_11.jpg

http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p242/Lofter1/WTC/WTC%20Memorial%20Pavilion%20Snohetta/101210_WTCMemPav_12.jpg

*

[mariab]

I noticed two skeleton pieces from the original towers wrapped up there. Will visitors be able to touch them?

[GreenwichBoy]

11608

[steve1young]

Never thought I'd be saying this, but I'm falling in love with this structure.

[lofter1]

Almost fully decked ...

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[LeCom]

The bases of the two remnants of the WTC base are lined up with their original elevation lines above the plaza, right? Or are they slightly submerged and thus appear shorter? I thought the latter was true for a while, until I realized that the current below grade parts seem to have been underground in the original complex as well. Am I right?

[londonlawyer]

Very impressive.

I hope that Gehry designs a masterpiece for the cultural facility. If so, this site will be extraordinary.

[lofter1]

The bases of the two remnants of the WTC base are lined up with their original elevation lines above the plaza, right?

They appear to be set at the same elevation lines in relation to the plaza level, if you look at these photos showing the placement of the original tridents ...

http://911review.org/Wget/www.nerdcities.com/guardian/wtc/wtc-main.jpg

http://excitingny.com/wtc/northtower.jpg

http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z102/evgeniygorbachev/My%20US%20Vocations%201999/7d92.jpg

and then compare the placement of the tridents within the Snohetta Pavilion (http://www.snoarc.no/files/1247139543-filename.pdf) [pdf] ...

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(click ^ to enlarge)

[lofter1]

The Snohetta Pavilion (http://www.wtc.com/news/new-design-details-for-memorial-museum-pavilion) is ~ 70' at its highest point:



... the building's footprint is approximately 15,000 square feet and has a total area of approximately 40,000 square feet. The building varies in height from 62-70 feet ...

I'd have thought that the peak of the trident arch is higher, but that could be a trick of the eye due to the verticality of the original WTC towers.

[BStyles]

Two photos from yesterday:
http://s279.photobucket.com/albums/kk157/BOJAMforeva/SAM_1149.jpg
http://s279.photobucket.com/albums/kk157/BOJAMforeva/SAM_1157.jpg

[LeCom]

I made the same observations on my own, yet your post illustrates the same point quite nicely with images. Thanks, Lofter.

[BigMac]

The MEMO Blog
December 21, 2010

Photo by Amy Dreher:

http://blog.national911memorial.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/PavilionAtriumSteelMemo.jpg

Coming into view: The primary steel of the glass atrium of the 9/11 Memorial Museum Pavilion gives the four-story structure a signature look. Last week, the building was topped off, marking the completion of the installation of structural steel. In the coming months, the so-called curtain wall will help define the pavilion’s shape. The pavilion will serve as an entryway to the museum, which opens in 2012 at bedrock at the World Trade Center site.

©2010 National September 11 Memorial & Museum

[lofter1]

What's up with this part of the Memorial's press release?



" ... the so-called curtain wall ... "

Makes it sound as if the term "curtain wall" is inappropriate :confused:

[arcman210]

Perhaps they're talking about the entire shell of the structure? Technically it's all a curtainwall since its not strucutral, but since a good majority isn't glass maybe they're being a little more loose with the term.

Either way it's exciting to hear.

[LeCom]

What's up with this part of the Memorial's press release?



" ... the so-called curtain wall ... "

Makes it sound as if the term "curtain wall" is inappropriate :confused:

It's probably written for the lowest common denominator, the architecturally uneducated reader who might have no idea what the term "curtain wall" means.

[ZippyTheChimp]

Dictionary.com (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/so-called) lists both usages, but I think #2 is more common.

[GreenwichBoy]

1172911728117271172611725

[lofter1]

Cortland and Greenwich back before the WTC first went up ...

http://www.antiqueradio.com/images/cortlandtf10.jpg

Where the Visitor's Center has now risen Radio Row used to reign ...

Cortland from Greenwich, looking west:

http://flamgroup.files.wordpress.com/2010/10/greenwichandcortlandt.jpg

[stache]

Imagine a radio district.

[uakoops]

^^ That's right where the South Pool is now.

Note the subway entrance on the right. They are building a new entrance at the exact same spot.

[lofter1]

Progress here noted at CURBED (http://ny.curbed.com/archives/2011/02/09/world_trade_centers_norwegian_pavilion_getting_gri dded.php#more):

World Trade Center's Norwegian Pavilion Getting Gridded

[Tectonic]

Is this supposed to be done by September?

[NYatKNIGHT]

Exterior, but I don't think open until the following Sept. 11.

[GreenwichBoy]

12251

[arcman210]

Nice to see more framework on the northwest corner

[lofter1]

The National September 11 Memorial & Museum has a number of job openings listed on their website:

Job Opportunities (http://www.national911memorial.org/site/PageServer?pagename=New_About_Opportunities)

[ZippyTheChimp]

http://img220.imageshack.us/img220/3656/wtc248c.th.jpg (http://img220.imageshack.us/i/wtc248c.jpg/) http://img715.imageshack.us/img715/6765/wtc249c.th.jpg (http://img715.imageshack.us/i/wtc249c.jpg/) http://img813.imageshack.us/img813/6778/wtc250c.th.jpg (http://img813.imageshack.us/i/wtc250c.jpg/) http://img517.imageshack.us/img517/2579/wtc251c.th.jpg (http://img517.imageshack.us/i/wtc251c.jpg/)

[LightningEagle]

nice pics zippy, I like the one with a light in the middle. :)

The pavilion will be all covered in glass right?

[lofter1]

The concrete wall at street level along Greenwich here looks to be nearly done ...

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[BiggieSmalls]

kind of odd to have a concrete wall like that along greenwich street. maybe some sort of blast protection the entrance will be on the north side then? or the south?

[lofter1]

Blast protection is my thought as well. Entrance will be on the north at the center of the building. Reports say that the exit for those who enter the subterranean museum area will be on the south (towards the west end of the building).

[GreenwichBoy]

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[lofter1]

Down low this place is solid as a bunker ...

http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p242/Lofter1/WTC/WTC%20Memorial%20Pavilion%20Snohetta/110226_WTCPavilion_1.jpg

http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p242/Lofter1/WTC/WTC%20Memorial%20Pavilion%20Snohetta/110226_WTCPavilion_3.jpg

http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p242/Lofter1/WTC/WTC%20Memorial%20Pavilion%20Snohetta/110226_WTCPavilion_2.jpg

http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p242/Lofter1/WTC/WTC%20Memorial%20Pavilion%20Snohetta/110226_WTCPavilion_4.jpg

http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p242/Lofter1/WTC/WTC%20Memorial%20Pavilion%20Snohetta/110226_WTCPavilion_5.jpg

[BiggieSmalls]

^^ not much of a view overlooking the south fountain with all those blast walls.

[arcman210]

I was under the impression that the building will be uniformly clad, regardless of the blast walls beyond. The floor plates clearly come past the perimiter of the blast wall.

[lofter1]

From the renders it looks as if there will be the metal and glass cladding hiding all of the concrete, and indications are there will be a fairly substantial amount of space between the two on the east and south sides.

[lofter1]

... not much of a view overlooking the south fountain with all those blast walls.

Based on this image it appears there might be an overlook on an upper level facing south ...




http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2609/4207806888_7a6cf810d7_o.jpg

[Tectonic]

03.05.2011

http://img219.imageshack.us/img219/1331/dsc0470sn.jpg

http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/6484/dsc0475sn.jpg

©2011 tectonic (http://www.tectonicphoto.com)

[lofter1]

I'm very curious to see what this east facade will look like when the cladding goes on and to see how they've designed it where it meets the street.

[lofter1]

Yesterday from various POVs ...

http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p242/Lofter1/WTC/WTC%20Memorial%20Pavilion%20Snohetta/110307_WTCSnohetta_01.jpg

http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p242/Lofter1/WTC/WTC%20Memorial%20Pavilion%20Snohetta/110307_WTCSnohetta_02.jpg

http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p242/Lofter1/WTC/WTC%20Memorial%20Pavilion%20Snohetta/110307_WTCSnohetta_03.jpg

http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p242/Lofter1/WTC/WTC%20Memorial%20Pavilion%20Snohetta/110307_WTCSnohetta_04.jpg

http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p242/Lofter1/WTC/WTC%20Memorial%20Pavilion%20Snohetta/110307_WTCSnohetta_05.jpg

http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p242/Lofter1/WTC/WTC%20Memorial%20Pavilion%20Snohetta/110307_WTCSnohetta_06.jpg

http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p242/Lofter1/WTC/WTC%20Memorial%20Pavilion%20Snohetta/110307_WTCSnohetta_07.jpg

http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p242/Lofter1/WTC/WTC%20Memorial%20Pavilion%20Snohetta/110307_WTCSnohetta_08.jpg

http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p242/Lofter1/WTC/WTC%20Memorial%20Pavilion%20Snohetta/110307_WTCSnohetta_09.jpg

http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p242/Lofter1/WTC/WTC%20Memorial%20Pavilion%20Snohetta/110307_WTCSnohetta_10.jpg

[GreenwichBoy]

12501

[lofter1]

Who knows?

http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p242/Lofter1/WTC/WTC%20Memorial%20Pavilion%20Snohetta/110315_WTCPavilion_1.jpg

http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p242/Lofter1/WTC/WTC%20Memorial%20Pavilion%20Snohetta/110315_WTCPavilion_2.jpg

[rbenko]

Panorama from the 14th floor of 22 Cortlandt Street:

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Click for Full Resolution (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/16831274/2011-03-15_WTC_NYC.jpg)

[lofter1]

More trees going in ...

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[Sherpa]

Cherry Blossom time only a few weeks away!

[lofter1]

And the Swamp White Oaks here will soon be showing some action, too ...

Saturday's really big full moon (http://www.itwire.com/science-news/space/45909-its-a-really-big-moon-march-3-2011?start=1) ushers in spring, with the Vernal Equinox (http://geography.about.com/od/timeandtimezones/a/marchequinox.htm) taking place this Sunday, March 20, at 7:21 PM EDT.

Quercus bicolor (http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=1&taxon_id=233501012)



Swamp white oak, chêne bicolore

ILLUSTRATION (http://www.efloras.org/object_page.aspx?object_id=41289&flora_id=1)

Trees , deciduous, to 30 m. Bark dark gray, scaly or flat-ridged. Twigs light brown or tan, 2-3(-4) mm diam., glabrous.

Buds light or dark brown, globose to ovoid, 2-3 mm, glabrous.

Flowering in spring.

The Iroquois used Quercus bicolor in the treatment of cholera, broken bones, consumption, and as a witchcraft medicine :eek: (D. E. Moerman 1986).

***

Sun Uranus Conjunction in Aries March 20 (http://astrostarblog.blogspot.com/2011/03/vernal-equinox-on-march-20-2011.html)



The Sun's conjunction with Uranus is foreshadowing an astrological year with major changes and sudden eruptions. Grass root movements will gain strength and importance but it is not an easy road traveled. Rebellion and riots all over the world will incite deep changes.

[lofter1]

Bloomin' oaks ...

Quercus bicolor (http://www.wildflower.org/plants/result.php?id_plant=QUBI)

PLANT CHARACTERISTICS



Flower Size: Male catkins 2-4 inches long.

BLOOM INFORMATION



Bloom Color: Red , Yellow , Green
Bloom Time: Mar , Apr
Bloom Notes: Male flowers yellow-green, females green to red.

[lofter1]

11am, 03.20.2011; East face of the pavilion ...

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[lofter1]

Although the size of the current building is better for the site than the original Snohetta proposal for the WTC Visitors Pavilion (aka the WTC Cultural Center (http://wirednewyork.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6298&p=50373&viewfull=1#post50373)), it's too bad they dropped the idea that the roof top of the Pavilion would also be a viewing deck:

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2005/05/18/arts/19wtc_slide1.jpg

[uakoops]

Would Calatrava's arches been able to hold that up?

[BStyles]

I don't think so. But then, these were earlier designs so that must've called for additional foundation work.

Then again, the current building doesn't sit on an actual foundation either.

[lofter1]

The original Snohetta plan was to have been built atop large spans with the building sitting above and cantilevered over the surface of the plaza, with an open unenclosed space at the base, as seen in this May 2005 post (http://wirednewyork.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6298&p=50375&viewfull=1#post50375) from early in this thread ...

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2005/05/18/arts/19wtc_slide2.jpg

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2005/05/18/arts/19wtc_slide4.jpg

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2005/05/18/arts/19wtc_slide6.jpg

I can only imagine what the cost overruns for this would have been ...

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2005/05/18/arts/19wtc_slide3.jpg

[GreenwichBoy]

1262012619

[lofter1]

Yesterday from inside the WFC ...

http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p242/Lofter1/WTC/WTC%20Memorial%20Pavilion%20Snohetta/110325_WTCPavilion_11.jpg

Looks like there will be a big window up top looking south ...

http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p242/Lofter1/WTC/WTC%20Memorial%20Pavilion%20Snohetta/110325_WTCPavilion_12.jpg

http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p242/Lofter1/WTC/WTC%20Memorial%20Pavilion%20Snohetta/110325_WTCPavilion_13.jpg

http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p242/Lofter1/WTC/WTC%20Memorial%20Pavilion%20Snohetta/110325_WTCPavilion_14.jpg

http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p242/Lofter1/WTC/WTC%20Memorial%20Pavilion%20Snohetta/110325_WTCPavilion_15.jpg

http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p242/Lofter1/WTC/WTC%20Memorial%20Pavilion%20Snohetta/110325_WTCPavilion_16.jpg

http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p242/Lofter1/WTC/WTC%20Memorial%20Pavilion%20Snohetta/110325_WTCPavilion_17.jpg

http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p242/Lofter1/WTC/WTC%20Memorial%20Pavilion%20Snohetta/110325_WTCPavilion_18.jpg

http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p242/Lofter1/WTC/WTC%20Memorial%20Pavilion%20Snohetta/110325_WTCPavilion_19.jpg

http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p242/Lofter1/WTC/WTC%20Memorial%20Pavilion%20Snohetta/110325_WTCPavilion_201.jpg

http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p242/Lofter1/WTC/WTC%20Memorial%20Pavilion%20Snohetta/110325_WTCPavilion_202.jpg

http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p242/Lofter1/WTC/WTC%20Memorial%20Pavilion%20Snohetta/110325_WTCPavilion_203.jpg

[lofter1]

From the viewing platform ...

http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p242/Lofter1/WTC/WTC%20Memorial%20Pavilion%20Snohetta/110325_WTCPavilion_204.jpg

http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p242/Lofter1/WTC/WTC%20Memorial%20Pavilion%20Snohetta/110325_WTCPavilion_205.jpg

http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p242/Lofter1/WTC/WTC%20Memorial%20Pavilion%20Snohetta/110325_WTCPavilion_206.jpg

http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p242/Lofter1/WTC/WTC%20Memorial%20Pavilion%20Snohetta/110325_WTCPavilion_207.jpg

http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p242/Lofter1/WTC/WTC%20Memorial%20Pavilion%20Snohetta/110325_WTCPavilion_208.jpg

http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p242/Lofter1/WTC/WTC%20Memorial%20Pavilion%20Snohetta/110325_WTCPavilion_209.jpg

http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p242/Lofter1/WTC/WTC%20Memorial%20Pavilion%20Snohetta/110325_WTCPavilion_210.jpg

[TREPYE]

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4023/4207806866_65b12ac7a8_o.jpg
Snohetta



http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2782/4207806868_0afc711e8f_o.jpg


What is the rhyme and reason for the facade treatment? All those lines and zigzags look odd and out of place.

[lofter1]

Visualization of the old phrase: "The world is out of joint"

[arcman210]

My opinion is that it refelcts the mass of confusion that was present in the rubble of the towers on 9/11. The rest of the facade looks like the side of the WTC turned on an angle.

[ZippyTheChimp]

http://img109.imageshack.us/img109/1060/wtc275c.th.jpg (http://img109.imageshack.us/i/wtc275c.jpg/)

[lofter1]

Scaffolding is coming down above Greenwich Street. Good to see how this facade, which will face towards both the base of 3 WTC and the Calatrava Hub winged structure & plaza, seems to open at the corners along the east side and appears less oppressive than I'd feared (guessing that there will be a mix of glass and metal cladding here) ...

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[Sal Schiano]

Pics of the glass going in

http://www.panynj.gov/wtcprogress/index.html

[GreenwichBoy]

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[GreenwichBoy]

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[lofter1]

Partial view of the Pavilion's south facade from the PA WTC Live Camera (http://www.panynj.gov/wtcprogress/live-camera.html):

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[westmc9th]

another inside shot. i find the glass quite appealing
http://www.facebook.com/home.php#!/wtcprogress (http://www.facebook.com/home.php#%21/wtcprogress)

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You can also follow us on Twitter, Youtube and on Facebook

[infoshare]

You can also follow us on Twitter, Youtube and on Facebook

Yes, I just started following you those other sites. The photos & commentary to be found there are excellent: thanks for those Facebook, Twitter and Youtube links.

[GreenwichBoy]

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[GreenwichBoy]

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[lofter1]

Anyone with inside knowledge who can tell us when the metal + glass cladding on the S / E / N facades will start to go up here?

[BiggieSmalls]

is that cladding shrink wrapped in pic 2?

[LightningEagle]

is that cladding shrink wrapped in pic 2?

Looks like it.....

[GreenwichBoy]

1278012779

[lofter1]

Looks like the panels are going up on the north side first.

[lofter1]

Meanwhile, until the pavilion is up and ready ...

Plan to Screen 9/11 Tourists in Luxury Building Irks Residents

The 9/11 memorial has rented ground-floor space
in the luxury building at 90 West St. for security screening.

DNA Info (http://www.dnainfo.com/20110420/downtown/plan-screen-911-tourists-luxury-condo-irks-residents)
By Julie Shapiro
April 20, 201

LOWER MANHATTAN — Residents of a downtown luxury apartment building slated to become a staging area for visitors to the 9/11 memorial are upset about being inundated with tourists.

Starting this September, hundreds of tourists each hour will pass through 90 West St. for security screening and orientation before they enter the 9/11 memorial. The memorial foundation has rented all of the retail space on the ground floor of the doorman building and plans to use it for the next three years.

"That's not good," said Jamie Tomczyk, 29, a resident of 90 West St., when told of the plan recently. "This is your home. I don't want it to be a tourist attraction." ...

Joe Daniels, president of the National September 11 Memorial & Museum, wrote a letter to 90 West residents this week that outlines the plans for the "welcome center" in their building, which will include a souvenir shop tourists can visit as they leave the memorial ...

Copyright © 2009 - 2011 Digital Network Associates dba DNAinfo.com

[scumonkey]

Nice building- super glad I don't live there!

[Tectonic]

I feel sorry for the residence, that could get annoying fast.

[kinggober]

In case you haven't seen this yet...
http://a.yfrog.com/img611/8423/dixwr.jpg

[Sherpa]

the "welcome center" in their building, which will include a souvenir shop tourists can visit as they leave the memorial ...

[lofter1]

The pavilion gets the last light of day ...

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[BStyles]

Lowering a panel into place the other day:
http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk157/BOJAMforeva/SAM_1431.jpg
http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk157/BOJAMforeva/SAM_1433.jpg
http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk157/BOJAMforeva/SAM_1437.jpg

[GreenwichBoy]

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4/22/11

[LightningEagle]

South Pool is now wet :)

http://img684.imageshack.us/img684/7786/unlediv.jpg

[GreenwichBoy]

^ rain

[LightningEagle]

^ rain

doesn't look like it.. especially everything is dry

http://img846.imageshack.us/img846/4305/unledkz.jpg

[scumonkey]

It's rain water...haven't you ever seen a deeper puddle still wet when all else around it has dried, looky there -already dry spots on the stone in the pic above,
and the dirt all around still looks wet/damp.

[lofter1]

a very localized downpour

[BStyles]

Didn't they say that they were going to be testing the waterfall system in the south pool next month?

[ablarc]

http://img846.imageshack.us/img846/4305/unledkz.jpg

Does it bother anyone else that those square depressions don't accurately represent the Twin Towers' footprints --neither in their dimensions or their exact locations?

Too late for remedy, I know; but fated to be small-print footnotes in the brochures?

[lofter1]

Good to be reminded of that. But it doesn't bother me a bit.

Symbolism rather than literalism. Memorialization v. Exactitude.

Memorial Pools Will Not Quite Fill Twin Footprints

THE NEW YORK TIMES (http://www.triroc.com/wtc/media/freedomtower/rebuildingadvancing.htm)
December 15, 2005

YOU can't take symbolism too literally at ground zero.

The great pool-filled memorial voids that are meant to mark the absence of the twin towers will be 31 percent smaller than the towers' actual footprints.

Each pool will be a 176-foot square, centered within the original 211-foot-10-inch-square footprint. The tower outlines will not be shown graphically on the plaza, so there will be no indication at ground level precisely where the twin towers stood; only an intimation.

It has been an open secret for almost two years that the pools would not faithfully represent the tower outlines. Official descriptions do not emphasize this fact but are also careful not to equate the pools and footprints exactly. The World Trade Center Memorial Foundation's Web site, for example, speaks of "two voids that reside in the original footprints" - not "two voids that define the original footprints."

Only now, however, is the degree of discrepancy growing clear. On Dec. 5, the foundation and the Lower Manhattan Development Corporation issued a request for proposals from construction managers. It indicated that the pools would be 180-foot squares, a measurement that includes a parapet where victims' names will be inscribed.

Among the practical impediments to full-sized pools is how close the north void will be to Fulton Street. If the pool were to grow, the street itself might have to be moved. As planned, the pools will occupy a total of 1.42 acres. The towers occupied 2.06 acres.

"In a perfect world, it might have been preferable for the pools to coincide precisely with the tower footprints," said Daniel Libeskind, the master planner of the trade center site. "But their emotional geometry and integrity are more important. They are at the epicenters of where the towers stood, and much like the twin beams of light, though not exact replicas, they accurately and movingly reflect the power of absence."

... Around the pools, the twin towers' dimensions will be observed at two levels, said Stefan Pryor, the president of the development corporation. The rear walls of the galleries surrounding the pools will be 204 feet apart, the inside dimension of the footprints.

And the pool containment structures, which will be visible from the underground museum, will be 211 feet and 10 inches across. Their exterior walls will align with the remnants of the towers' original column footings, preserved at a level just above bedrock.

"Where the authentic artifacts of the original towers are displayed," Mr. Pryor said, "you'll be able to view the authentic size of the original towers."

[lofter1]

Ask The Port Authority (http://www.panynj.gov/wtcprogress/q_a_intro.cfm)

Q. I know the victims' names will be lit at night, but will the waterfalls themselves be lit at night also? – Steven, San Diego, CA

A. Yes, the bottom of each waterfall is lined with lights, which will illuminate the waterfall of each pool at night.

[ZippyTheChimp]

neither in their dimensions or their exact locations?Always knew about the smaller dimensions, but I thought that the pools are centered exactly where the towers were centered.

[ZippyTheChimp]

The one aspect where the difference might be noticeable is that the North Tower east wall and the South Tower west wall were along the same line.

This is accurately depicted in the Google Earth animation (http://www.national911memorial.org/site/PageServer?pagename=New_Visit_GoogleEarth_Tour) at the WTC Memorial site.

But the tip of the Memorial Pavilion blocks this view. A strategic design decision? :)

[BStyles]

The pools are set inside the footprints I believe, so that they can leave space for the original footings of the towers' perimeters.

208', 209', 211', I give up. Exactly how large were the towers?

[stache]

From our friends at Wikipedia -12830

[GreenwichBoy]

1285012849

[lofter1]

Did they break something?

[uakoops]

Looks like it's just tarps to keep the glass clean.

[ablarc]

12850
This building will look de-constructed even when finished. Is that intentional symbolism? If so, is it appropriate?

[lofter1]

It's starting to be apparent how the Pavilion meets the ground, and it appears that the more deconstructivist part of the design peels away and rises up from the base where the entry will be. There seems to be a very good balance between a building that welcomes people as they approach from across the plaza, a remembrance of what happened here and a directional structure pin-pointing the visitor's focus to various areas in the surrounding plaza. The tight wrapping of the cladding is looking very sharp. It's serious without being overly somber. I really like what I'm seeing evolve here.

From a few days ago, a walk-around starting at the northeast going to southwest ...

http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p242/Lofter1/WTC/WTC%20Memorial%20Pavilion%20Snohetta/110428_WTCPavilion_101.jpg

http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p242/Lofter1/WTC/WTC%20Memorial%20Pavilion%20Snohetta/110428_WTCPavilion_102.jpg

http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p242/Lofter1/WTC/WTC%20Memorial%20Pavilion%20Snohetta/110428_WTCPavilion_103.jpg

http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p242/Lofter1/WTC/WTC%20Memorial%20Pavilion%20Snohetta/110428_WTCPavilion_104.jpg

http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p242/Lofter1/WTC/WTC%20Memorial%20Pavilion%20Snohetta/110428_WTCPavilion_105.jpg

http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p242/Lofter1/WTC/WTC%20Memorial%20Pavilion%20Snohetta/110428_WTCPavilion_106.jpg

http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p242/Lofter1/WTC/WTC%20Memorial%20Pavilion%20Snohetta/110428_WTCPavilion_107.jpg

http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p242/Lofter1/WTC/WTC%20Memorial%20Pavilion%20Snohetta/110428_WTCPavilion_108.jpg

http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p242/Lofter1/WTC/WTC%20Memorial%20Pavilion%20Snohetta/110428_WTCPavilion_109.jpg

http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p242/Lofter1/WTC/WTC%20Memorial%20Pavilion%20Snohetta/110428_WTCPavilion_110.jpg

http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p242/Lofter1/WTC/WTC%20Memorial%20Pavilion%20Snohetta/110428_WTCPavilion_111.jpg

[lofter1]

Moving around to the south ...

http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p242/Lofter1/WTC/WTC%20Memorial%20Pavilion%20Snohetta/110428_WTCPavilion_21.jpg

http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p242/Lofter1/WTC/WTC%20Memorial%20Pavilion%20Snohetta/110428_WTCPavilion_22.jpg

Lots of nooks and crannies on the east face. Not sure at this point if they'll simply be voids behind the cladding, some viewing spots up above or what ultimately might be in store for this side ...

http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p242/Lofter1/WTC/WTC%20Memorial%20Pavilion%20Snohetta/110428_WTCPavilion_23.jpg

http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p242/Lofter1/WTC/WTC%20Memorial%20Pavilion%20Snohetta/110428_WTCPavilion_24.jpg

http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p242/Lofter1/WTC/WTC%20Memorial%20Pavilion%20Snohetta/110428_WTCPavilion_26.jpg

http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p242/Lofter1/WTC/WTC%20Memorial%20Pavilion%20Snohetta/110428_WTCPavilion_27.jpg

http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p242/Lofter1/WTC/WTC%20Memorial%20Pavilion%20Snohetta/110428_WTCPavilion_28.jpg

http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p242/Lofter1/WTC/WTC%20Memorial%20Pavilion%20Snohetta/110428_WTCPavilion_29.jpg

http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p242/Lofter1/WTC/WTC%20Memorial%20Pavilion%20Snohetta/110428_WTCPavilion_25.jpg

[ablarc]

I dunno, lofter; this building seems more and more vapid the more I see of it. What is the message of the blue and white pattern? Could it be aesthetic bankruptcy? What should we do now, Olaf? Empty gestures, perhaps.

[scumonkey]

I thought the blue and white pattern is just the protective covering over the cladding?

[ablarc]

^ Well, that's a relief. The rest of the building's features are hopefully as easy to explain away.

[lofter1]

I love it when you're sarcastic, ablarc, and pretend you don't know that the glass panels aren't really royal blue and snow white. Can't wait to see how folks will respond to the big red criss-cross going down the other side, where the building displays a bold vertical / horizontal axis.

That'll show those Park51-ers, eh?

[ZippyTheChimp]

Geez, the stuff is peeling away.

[GreenwichBoy]

128761287512874

[GreenwichBoy]

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[RoldanTTLB]

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2010/5705137785_071a5038ce_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/7799907@N05/5705137785/)

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3535/5705140923_43dca0bf78_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/7799907@N05/5705140923/)

[GreenwichBoy]

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[lofter1]

First panels up on the east face of the Snohetta Visitors Pavilion ...

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[TallGuy]

I don't know. If you took a photo close up without the surroundings I would have guessed this was in the Meadowlands by Giants Stadium.

[lofter1]

Xanadu?

[stache]

Now known as 'American Dream' :eek:

[SiberianHusky]

Xanadu?

It aint Xanadu till you have a real pretty indoor ski slope on up in there!

[RoldanTTLB]

Have we really not settled the fact that the panels just have colored film (white=metal, Blue=glass) on them right now? They're roughly the same metallic finish as NYbG, a building appreciated by everyone here but the guy who lives next to it. One of the panels on the north face has been uncovered as of this morning. When I have a free second to fight with Flickr from the office I'll append.

[ZippyTheChimp]

Not sure about the blue, but the white looks like a protective cover to me.

That blue is r-e-a-l-l-y blue.

[lofter1]

My sense is that both blue and white are protective coverings ...

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[Sherpa]

.

[lofter1]

Sunday morning ...

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[marnegator]

It's so exciting to have a major piece of the memorial, or indeed the WTC proper, nearing visible completion. Can't wait for the protective covering to be removed from the curtain wall; this should turn out to be a sharp little building.

[lofter1]

... this should turn out to be a sharp little building.


Sharp is the word for it.

Another panel goes in along the east facade ...

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The exit from the pavilion, at the southwest corner just north of the South Pool is starting to take shape ...

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It looks like there will be a skylight up top ...

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Although a skylight is not apparent in the renders of the pavilion ...

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http://www.architizer.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/snohetta-museum-memorial.jpg

http://designwire.interiordesign.net/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/SFMOMA_Snohetta_7_SEPT_11_Memorial.jpg

The original Snohetta plan featured a very prominent light well ...

http://www.gothamgazette.com/graphics/2008/09/WTC_culture_birdseye.gif

http://soa.utexas.edu/news/archive/2005-05-20/images/wtc_atrium.jpg

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2005/05/18/arts/19wtc_slide8.jpg

[stache]

Could be a soffit window.

[Daquan13]

Looks like part of an amusement park ride!

[BStyles]

Looks like the exhaust vents for the mechanicals.

[ZippyTheChimp]

^
I think you're right.

[ttk]

One of the problems with the memorial is that, aside from the entrance pavilion, nothing about it is visible from the street. At ground level, the only way to see the memorial itself is to walk through the grove of trees to first one pool and then through the trees to the other.

So, the Snohetta pavilion better be good, because (except for the comparatively few people who work in the surrounding office buildings) that and some trees are all most people will see unless they walk up to first one pool, and then the other.

In time though - and perhaps sooner than later - because of the decidedly low profile and bifurcated nature of the memorial, the Calatrava train station will become the de facto 9/11 memorial in the popular imagination.

[jddar]

^^An urban forest seems like a spectacular memorial in itself.

[ZippyTheChimp]

At ground level, the only way to see the memorial itself is to walk through the grove of trees to first one pool and then through the trees to the other.I think that's the idea.

[ttk]

You're right - that is the idea. My point is that bifurcating the memorial below ground was not the best idea, and that pedestrians will be more moved by the train station. After all, consider that the Statue of Liberty was not at all intended to honor immigration when it was dedicated in 1886, and became indelibly invested with that meaning after Emma Lazarus' poem was first popularized in 1901.

[ZippyTheChimp]

I don't see the logic in comparing it to the Statue of Liberty, which isn't a memorial to an event. It was intended to symbolize liberty in the New World, and as such, appropriately visible in the harbor.

The WTC Memorial was meant to exist within the city fabric, but separate; not something to be admired by pedestrians blocks away, or commuters on West St. If you want to experience it, you have to visit.

Sort of like comparing the Washington Monument to the Vietnam War Memorial.


After all, consider that the Statue of Liberty was not at all intended to honor immigration when it was dedicated in 1886, and became indelibly invested with that meaning after Emma Lazarus' poem was first popularized in 1901. Are you trying to say that the meaning of the memorial will change in the future? Otherwise, I don't see what Emma's poem has to do with anything.

[RoldanTTLB]

There once was a site from New York
And all the kids thought it a dork
but then came a poem
and wouldn't it show'em
the beauty of a great stork.

AND DONE!

[ttk]

It is inevitable that the meaning of the memorial will evolve over time, and that in the future, people will look at it differently than we will when it opens this September.

I have my own opinions about the 9/11 memorial, and the only point I want to make in this thread is that the competition jury regrettably gave up on making a bigger statement when it opted for a design that you have to go to see. It chose an introspective, even introverted design, to commemorate a national calamity where terrorists murdered 2,936 people from 70 different countries because they stood for America. Even though the winning design was far, far superior to the other finalists, IMHO September 11, 2001 calls for something more than what the competition jury selected in December of 2003, which it must be pointed out, bears more than a passing resemblance to what juror Maya Lin suggested in Herbert Muschamp's August, 2002 article in the NY Times Magazine about how his cavalcade of favorite starchitects would rebuild the site.

Living in Washington, I am not uncomfortable with monuments that make big statements about big subjects. The nation will get a fine memorial to 9/11 when it is soon completed, and soon. However, for the public walking around the neighborhood, I am anticipating that the Calatrava station will say and inspire more to them than two very large holes in the ground hidden in a grove of trees.

[NYatKNIGHT]

The Transit Hall and its resemblance of a dove will be inspirational and fitting as it was meant to be, and may well be the "monument" that distinguishes the site. But if visitors will claim they saw the Memorial after seeing the PATH station from a tour bus on West Street then I'd say they missed it.

[RoldanTTLB]

If they can confuse the Chrysler building with the Empire state building, I'm sure they can confuse the train station with the memorial. It happens.

[ZippyTheChimp]

I have my own opinions about the 9/11 memorial, and the only point I want to make in this thread is that the competition jury regrettably gave up on making a bigger statement when it opted for a design that you have to go to see. It chose an introspective, even introverted design, to commemorate a national calamity where terrorists murdered 2,936 people from 70 different countries because they stood for America.Well, in information from bin Laden himself, he wanted to draw the US into a Middle East war. To that end, I would have done the same thing - attack the capital and principal city, which also happened to be a world media center. "Standing for America" is the mindset that got us into Iraq rather than Afghanistan.


Even though the winning design was far, far superior to the other finalists, IMHO September 11, 2001 calls for something more than what the competition jury selected in December of 2003, which it must be pointed out, bears more than a passing resemblance to what juror Maya Lin suggested in Herbert Muschamp's August, 2002 article in the NY Times Magazine about how his cavalcade of favorite starchitects would rebuild the site.A similar mistake was made with the very tall building going up north of the memorial. It was given the added burden of standing for Freedom in America. Freedom to do what, build tall buildings? Even despotic dictators can do that. Thankfully, a more sensible attitude developed, and the address was changed.


Living in Washington, I am not uncomfortable with monuments that make big statements about big subjects.Then you should have no trouble comparing the focused Maya Lin memorial (easy to miss) to the big-statement world War II Memorial, which doesn't seem to say anything.


However, for the public walking around the neighborhood, I am anticipating that the Calatrava station will say and inspire more to them than two very large holes in the ground hidden in a grove of trees.The public comes to New York to be inspired, entertained , whatever. They may be inspired by the Calatrava Transit Hall, or 1WTC.

The memorial will be a place of loss.

[BStyles]

It is inevitable that the meaning of the memorial will evolve over time, and that in the future, people will look at it differently than we will when it opens this September.

I have my own opinions about the 9/11 memorial, and the only point I want to make in this thread is that the competition jury regrettably gave up on making a bigger statement when it opted for a design that you have to go to see. It chose an introspective, even introverted design, to commemorate a national calamity where terrorists murdered 2,936 people from 70 different countries because they stood for America. Even though the winning design was far, far superior to the other finalists, IMHO September 11, 2001 calls for something more than what the competition jury selected in December of 2003, which it must be pointed out, bears more than a passing resemblance to what juror Maya Lin suggested in Herbert Muschamp's August, 2002 article in the NY Times Magazine about how his cavalcade of favorite starchitects would rebuild the site.

Living in Washington, I am not uncomfortable with monuments that make big statements about big subjects. The nation will get a fine memorial to 9/11 when it is soon completed, and soon. However, for the public walking around the neighborhood, I am anticipating that the Calatrava station will say and inspire more to them than two very large holes in the ground hidden in a grove of trees.

Yeah, they have this nifty thing called a site map.

I don't get why the whole argument around the memorial is that its something no one can see. Is there something wrong with going to see a memorial rather than watching it on a TV screen? This is New York. You have to walk to get everywhere, or use the subway. I am happy with what's being built, regardless if I can see it or not. The trees add serenity to the site where there was once chaos, as well as add some greenery to a site previously held down by an uninviting superblock.

[ZippyTheChimp]

Yeah, they have this nifty thing called a site map.Even the Fargo People will have no trouble.

[ttk]

My own hopes for the 9/11 memorial was that it would embody something more than grief and loss, which is what the selected design beautifully conveys. I thought it should also express our country’s recognition that the victims of 9/11 represented the nation and they were killed because they were (or were perceived to be) Americans. I do not see how the new memorial commemorates their sacrifice for the nation – probably because it doesn’t attempt to do so.

My sentiment in this regard may be patriotic or nationalistic, but I don’t believe it led to the entirely foreseeable fiasco in Iraq. As the drums beat ever-more-insistently in 2002 for going to war against Iraq, I almost could not believe what I was hearing. Re-fighting the Vietnam War in the heart of the Arab world, I thought at the time, was precisely the wrong thing the United States should do after September 11.

Perhaps my quarrel with the 9/11 memorial, if I can go so far as to use that word, is with modern architecture itself because it has a terrible time memorializing heroism. Classical architecture had no such problem with heroism (duh, the Greeks invented both). But modernism has little to say about this subject, maybe because it can’t.

Which brings me to the Vietnam memorial. This beautiful work, unquestionably the best entrant in the competition, is perfect because it focuses exclusively and entirely upon the sacrifice of the dead. For anyone who lived through the terrible national divisions of the Vietnam era, that is quite enough.

When I wrote earlier today about Washington’s “monuments that make big statements about big subjects,” I had the Lincoln Memorial and President Kennedy’s grave in mind. I was not thinking about the W.W. II memorial, which I am sorry to say, is a disjointed, kitschy mess (though – interestingly - very popular with the public). The most vital lesson from the W.W. II memorial is that architects – and back-seat driving politicians - should have a rigorous training in classical architecture before they attempt to build a classical monument.

[lofter1]

East face fully clad up top:

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[lofter1]

Laying the plaza to the south of the pavilion ...

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[lofter1]

Sharp ...

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[ZippyTheChimp]

I can't really judge this building until the wrapping comes off.

[lofter1]

There is a small area on the north facade where the wraps are off and the contrasting striping is visible. But even the high def webcam doesn't show it clearly at this point.

There will definitely be some shine coming off this one.

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[RoldanTTLB]

Sorry to make these links, but they're to (I hope) original sizes:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/7799907@N05/5760313814/sizes/o/in/photostream/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/7799907@N05/5705140923/sizes/o/in/photostream/

[BiggieSmalls]

loos to be some vents where ever the blue covering is.

[BStyles]

There is a small area on the north facade where the wraps are off and the contrasting striping is visible. But even the high def webcam doesn't show it clearly at this point.

There will definitely be some shine coming off this one.

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I think that's still the glass. In the renders, the glass starts to transition to the striped metal design of the facade.

[lofter1]

It's like an auto prototype, where they put tape on certain features so no one can get a good photo of what the thing will look like.

Verrrry mysterious.

[GreenwichBoy]

1316513164

[HAN]

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At the bottom you can see the sun reflected

[Tectonic]

05.28.2011

http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/7954/dsc0257sn.jpg

http://img708.imageshack.us/img708/2253/dsc0256sn.jpg
©tectonic (http://www.tectonicphoto.com)

[RoldanTTLB]

They're yanking off the wrapping this morning...

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5027/5781836616_3822bc2a68_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/7799907@N05/5781836616/)

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2747/5781836620_6537df819c_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/7799907@N05/5781836620/)

[oquatanginwan]

Very pretty facade, from what I can see. Far more glassy than I remember the renderings being though.

[lofter1]

Shimmery from up above.

[lofter1]

More fully exposed; should look great in the rising sun tomorrow AM when the rays hit it direct ...

(looking at cached shots from the HD Discovery Cam it seems at this time of year the sun hits the north face of the pavilion around 8 AM, and then it's in shadow by about 8:30)

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[lofter1]

And these days, from about 6 - 7 PM, the setting sun shines across the north face.

[lofter1]

The reveal on the north side continues ...

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On the east face windows are going in ...

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[ZippyTheChimp]

Walking from and to home yesterday, I viewed the building from all sides. It's starting to look good.

[GreenwichBoy]

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[ZippyTheChimp]

http://img685.imageshack.us/img685/8403/wtc300c.th.jpg (http://img685.imageshack.us/i/wtc300c.jpg/) http://img808.imageshack.us/img808/4514/wtc301c.th.jpg (http://img808.imageshack.us/i/wtc301c.jpg/)

[lofter1]

This building is fantastic. It does the seemingly impossible: Recalls the fallen twins and at the same time is utterly beautiful.

The impression is much more apparent in the large images (http://imageshack.us/f/685/wtc300c.jpg/) seen at ImageShack.

[BPC]

Yes, fantastic. Unfortunately, our view of this stellar building from BPC is blocked by two hulking concrete structures which, to the best of my recollection, never appeared on the public depictions of the WTC memorial plaza. I am sure they were buried in the fine print somewhere, but I still feel we've been conned. I hope at least they stick some public restrooms in them.

[ZippyTheChimp]

Yeah, you were conned. :rolleyes:

The vent stacks for all the underground spaces were originally going to be distributed throughout the memorial site.

It didn't look good, so all of it was consolidated in the two buildings. It was posted in the Memorial thread, and have been in the public record for at least two and a half years.
http://wirednewyork.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4463&p=266088&viewfull=1#post266088

[lofter1]

The view of the vent structures from the west will soon be hidden by big trees lining West Street. Beyond serving a very necessary purpose for the infrastructure of the entire WTC site, the vent buildings will act as a noise buffer, minimizing sounds of traffic for the plaza area to the south and west of the pools.

[Tectonic]

Were those mounts for the cladding I saw in your pics Zippy?

[ZippyTheChimp]

For the vent buildings? Yes.

[Tectonic]

Cool, are they using glass?

[ZippyTheChimp]

Someone said a while back that the cladding will be metal.

From the slope of the framework, maybe it will compliment the visitor center.

[lofter1]

Seems they will be clad in some sort of metal (mesh?).

[lofter1]

World Trade Center - West Vent

JEI STRUCTURAL ENGINEERING - GLAZING SYSTEMS (http://jeistructural.com/project-gallery/33-world-trade-center-west-vent-)
Kansas City, MO

Details:

Those two buildings to the right are the "West Vent Structures". One of them houses the new vent for the south (in bound) PATH tubes. (The out bound vent is inside Tower One.)

The rest of the two structures is taken up by vent shafts for the memorial and museum as well as elevators, one for freight, and emergency egress stairs and some other things.

The main freight elevators and loading dock are in the south west corner and are completely underground.

Neat little fact about the vent shafts in the "West Vent Structures". They will also collect any rain that falls into them for use in the pools, watering the trees and landscape etc.. Most of the rain that falls on the WTC site will be stored and reused.

Memorial and Museum Update

Completion of the freight elevator within the North Vent Structure has enabled the north hoist to be removed. The removal of the north hoist has facilitated the acceleration of the construction of the Memorial Plaza finishes in the area west of the North Fountain.

Structural steel erection for the Memorial pavilion building was completed in Dec. 2010. Secondary steel and cladding installation now active.

Soil installation and tree planting underway in phases through 2011. More than 100 trees now on site.

Finishing work on memorial reflecting pools and waterfalls.

Preparing for cladding installation on new West Vent Structures to begin May 2011

[lofter1]

World Trade Center Memorial and Museum

CityScan Corp. (http://www.cityscancorp.com/projects.html)
Concrete Imagining Services

Eastern Concrete Cutting worked on the West Vent Structure which provides ventilation to the below-grade Museum space. In particular the cladding system which consists of anchors, steel beams and a wire like mesh that will wrap the exterior of the structures.

CityScan was hired by Eastern Concrete Cutting (www.EasternCutting.com) to insure reinforcement bars were not compromised during core drilling. Over 160 locations were scanned totaling 700 holes. Eastern Concrete Cutting was able to avoid rebar and increase daily hole production, a plus for both them and the General Contractor.

[Tectonic]

Thanks

[GreenwichBoy]

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[stache]

It looks kind of like a ship.

[Dagrecco82]

A forumer over at skyscrapercity noted that the peeled facade looks like one of the entries of the planes. I understand it's a sensitive issue, but I really respect wirednewyorker forumers' opinions. Just wondering what everyone's impression? Personally, it does look eerily like it. Here's the link:

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=79101626&postcount=562

[ZippyTheChimp]

I never noticed it before, but given what the building itself alludes to, I'm going to guess that it isn't a coincidence.

At the Snohetta website, there is only indirect reference to the symbolic nature of the building.

Matter of fact descriptions....

The design for the building embodies a careful reaction to the horizontal character
of the memorial design while also providing the area with a lively organic form that allows the visitor to imagine the site and city in a broader sense.
The alternating reflective treatment of the façade will mirror the changing seasons, revealing the Pavilion’s differing qualities throughout the year.

are intermixed with...

The building will provide each visitor with the opportunity to engage in the act of remembering and to ponder the consequences of forgetting.
Certain characteristics of the Museum Pavilion will seem reminiscent of the original towers, while at other times these notions are only alluded to.

[arcman210]

I've always thought the design was meant to evoke the twin towers, both in their fallen state and as they once stood... but I also hadn't noticed that before either.

It's visible in the renderings of the north facade, but I haven't seen any in south facade renderings... is there one there too?

Could it also be some sort of window?

[lofter1]

There is a much smaller similarly shaped image on the south facade near the west edge.

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And it seems, once the protective coating is removed, that the east face could show something like that running across most of the facade.

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Beneath that area are very few openings in the concrete, so the purpose isn't just for windows.

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The sharper angle of plane entry into the South Tower isn't seen on the Pavilion (not yet, anyway).

This is a pretty brilliant way to evoke that day.

[westmc9th]

Port authority image: http://yfrog.com/user/WTCProgress/photos

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[BiggieSmalls]

great perspective of the waterproofing process adn the depth of the under ground level area.

[RoldanTTLB]

I don't remember this gate being here like this the last time I was in this area. Things change quick I suppose.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2422/5830887416_dd864c8b03_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/7799907@N05/5830887416/)

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5271/5830352597_7463aa4841_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/7799907@N05/5830352597/)

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5026/5830918436_8a4b790bce_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/7799907@N05/5830918436/)

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3053/5830970358_752687962a_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/7799907@N05/5830970358/)

[GreenwichBoy]

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[lofter1]

Yesterday ...

http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p242/Lofter1/WTC/WTC Memorial Pavilion Snohetta/110619_WTCPavilion_1.jpg

http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p242/Lofter1/WTC/WTC Memorial Pavilion Snohetta/110619_WTCPavilion_2.jpg

http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p242/Lofter1/WTC/WTC Memorial Pavilion Snohetta/110619_WTCPavilion_3.jpg

http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p242/Lofter1/WTC/WTC Memorial Pavilion Snohetta/110619_WTCPavilion_4.jpg

http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p242/Lofter1/WTC/WTC Memorial Pavilion Snohetta/110619_WTCPavilion_5.jpg

http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p242/Lofter1/WTC/WTC Memorial Pavilion Snohetta/110619_WTCPavilion_6.jpg

http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p242/Lofter1/WTC/WTC Memorial Pavilion Snohetta/110619_WTCPavilion_7.jpg

[ZippyTheChimp]

http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/3455/wtc323c.th.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/405/wtc323c.jpg/)

[GreenwichBoy]

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[ZippyTheChimp]

Similar but not identical window pattern as on the north facade is visible on the south wall.

http://img51.imageshack.us/img51/2002/memorial14c.th.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/51/memorial14c.jpg/)

[325ccr]

13464

[phxmania2001]

Although it looks like Zippy's speculation on the south wall has proven correct - that little corner window treatment somewhat resembles the impact zone of the South Tower. A little eerie and unnerving, to be sure, but done in a tasteful way. I'm definitely liking this design a lot more than I thought I would have.

[NoyokA]

It definitely reminds you of the former Twin Towers and their destruction although not overtly. Its something needed amongst all the gloss of all the other new buildings. For that reason I think this is a great building.

[ZippyTheChimp]

From NIST report:

North Tower
http://img694.imageshack.us/img694/251/wtc1damagepattern.jpg

South Tower
http://img835.imageshack.us/img835/161/wtc2damagepattern.jpg

[stache]

Very interesting Zip.

[Tectonic]

Creepy.

[stache]

This is true.

[lofter1]

Putting it all together ...

North Face of the Memorial Pavilion / North Tower:


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South Face of the Memorial Pavilion / South Tower:

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[BStyles]

Alright, it's just pure coincidence, people, come on.The facade slopes upwards, so the windows are offset. The only thing disturbing about it, is the insight.

[ZippyTheChimp]

I don't think it's disturbing, but also not a coincidence.

[lofter1]

It was 9/11 that was disturbing. There is no way that the facade treatment here is just an arbitrary juxtaposition of shapes and forms that magically match up with what was seen that morning. What's been built is a subtle but explicit reminder of what was lost. A ghost, if you will.

[Sherpa]

I shall await the NY Post to report this, and once they do then it becomes true.

[marnegator]

^ :D Where flesh and blood is less real than paper and ink, eh?

[lofter1]

The east facade almost fully revealed (showing ghost images of the impacts?) ...

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[lofter1]

East face fully exposed, shining in the dark ...

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[Vivit]

Regardless of whether or not this facade is meant to subtly reflect the impact zones from 9/11, it still looks great. It's refreshing, nonetheless.

[SiberianHusky]

ur beautiful

[Daquan13]

Why is the building made to look like it is tilting toward the North and South Pools?

[ZippyTheChimp]

Read from post #663.

[Daquan13]

Sort of in THIS fashion?

[ZippyTheChimp]

A bit more subtle, I think.

[Daquan13]

Thanx.

But in the same general idea, pretty much.

The vid shows that part practically stayed in that position until it almost reached the ground.

[lofter1]

Putting it all together ...

North Face of the Memorial Pavilion / North Tower:

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The East Face ...

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[Daquan13]

So, Lofter1, I take it that THAT is what the building is a reminder of. The "marks or spots" similating the impact spots of the terror attacks.

Pretty slick little idea, but kind of sad, as they seem to open old wounds of that horror that occured almost 10 years ago!

I thought that the building was going to be a place where the 09-11 relatives would or could reflect back on things BEFORE the attacks.

[325ccr]

This week 9/11 artifacts are coming in

[lofter1]

And those artifacts include crushed fire trucks and many other reminders of the hellish damage done that day. From what I've read, a walk through the memorial / museum will be an immersive experience. No doubt for many it will re-open memories that have been stored away. It is to be a place of remembrance, both of what happened and what was lost.

[Daquan13]

When I was in Washington in January, I went with 2 friends to the National American History Museum.

And in there at the area concerning the 09-11-01 terror attacks, there is a huge piece of one of the steel columns on display from the South Tower that was on the 75th floor.

[RoldanTTLB]

I'm really curious about the plans for the "soft" infrastructure for this museum. I'm going to give the PANYNJ and other parties involved credit that they have already thought this through, but there needs to be some serious plans for first response/trauma/counseling involved in the museum/memorial opening. As one of the people on the research team for the 2007 WTCHR follow-up, I know we had extensive trauma protocols (that we had to use a few too many times for my comfort). I would be curious to see what they have in place here.

[ZippyTheChimp]

http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/2909/memorial19c.th.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/204/memorial19c.jpg/)

[lofter1]

Friday, July 15 ...

http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p242/Lofter1/WTC/WTC Memorial Pavilion Snohetta/110715_WTCPav_1.jpg

http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p242/Lofter1/WTC/WTC Memorial Pavilion Snohetta/110715_WTCPav_2.jpg

http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p242/Lofter1/WTC/WTC Memorial Pavilion Snohetta/110715_WTCPav_3.jpg

http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p242/Lofter1/WTC/WTC Memorial Pavilion Snohetta/110715_WTCPav_4.jpg

***

[Daquan13]

So, in essence, the structure is not only built to somewhat similate the top part of the South Tower tilting and beginning to collaspe and have the mock impact spots, but also to have artifacts on display that were part of the former WTC, as well as damaged emergency vehicles, right?

Interesting!

[BStyles]

No, the cladding is meant to tilt upward because not only does it follow the rhythm of the glass, but there are also entrances on both sides.

If you think about it hard enough, then yes, you will believe that it is reminiscent of the towers collapsing. If it were any other building, then no, it wouldn't.

[phxmania2001]

So, in essence, the structure is not only built to somewhat similate the top part of the South Tower tilting and beginning to collaspe and have the mock impact spots, but also to have artifacts on display that were part of the former WTC, as well as damaged emergency vehicles, right?

Interesting!

Maybe the best way to put it is that, one way or another, the building subtly ensures that we "never forget."

[Daquan13]

Thanx.

Yeah, guess that it'll be a constant reminder. I'm quite surprised that the 09-11 families aren't balking up at it.

[arcman210]

While there might be some subtle and not so subtle references to the WTC, I doubt the slope of the roof has anything to do with it. That angle of collapse is only seen from certain photographs... preferencing certain perspectives of one tower for the final design wouldn't be something I would see the architects doing. The shape of the building is a wedge because of the construction involving the path station below and what the footprint would allow, and the slope of the building accomodates a building which has more floors at one side than the other side. Even the IFC preliminary designs had an odd shaped roof.

[phxmania2001]

I agree that, specifically, it's not the collapse of the South Tower being referenced. Seems like, if anything, the angles of the building are really more supposed to evoke the aftermath (as tied together by the askew beams supporting the windows) and the wreckage, making it into a more artificial Hiroshima Bomb Dome type of structure. The former would be a bit too harsh, but the latter is definitely appropriate, and something that, if I recall, most people wanted anyway.

[ZippyTheChimp]

Given the main reason that the Koenig Sphere was rejected for the memorial plaza, that the memorial isn't intended to be instructional, an overt reference to 09/11 would probably have also been rejected.

Below is the description from the Snohetta website. While the pavilion is the entrance to the museum, it's noted that the building sits on the memorial plaza.

The WTC tridents, while visible from outside, are within the building, part of the story-telling exhibits below. I think the pavilion is an expertly designed transition from the memorial to the museum.

It's not graphically accurate, but it's obvious what this represents:
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4042/4207047131_b2737e7f18_o.jpg




Since the tragic events of September 11, 2001, New York State and the City of New York have worked to rebuild the site and return it to a lively and important center in one of the world’s most notable cities.

Snøhetta was commissioned to design the only building that actually sits on the memorial grounds and is slated to contain cultural activities. The idea of placing a cultural building
on the actual memorial site is rare and it has been expected to garner considerable scrutiny.

During the four years of working with the project, the program has changed several times, however it has remained a cultural facility that is dedicated to visitor comfort and orientation. The current design, which has now completed the contract document stage, is scheduled for completion in 2011.

The design for the building embodies a careful reaction to the horizontal character of the memorial design while also providing the area with a lively organic form that allows the visitor to imagine the site and city in a broader sense. The building will provide each visitor with the opportunity to engage in the act of remembering and to ponder the consequences of forgetting.

Certain characteristics of the Museum Pavilion will seem reminiscent of the original towers, while at other times these notions are only alluded to. The alternating reflective treatment of the façade will mirror the changing seasons, revealing the Pavilion’s differing qualities throughout the year. Inside, a large atrium space has been designed to direct
light deep into a subterranean museum, designed by a separate architect.

Within the atrium there will stand two structural columns rescued from the original towers. Although removed from their former location and function, they mark the site with
their own profound aesthetic gesture.

[Daquan13]

I forgot about the Koenig Sphere. Is it still over at Battery Park or whereever it was put once it was dug up from the wreckage of the former towers?
Guess that it has found a permenant home there.

[GreenwichBoy]

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[eXodius]

I forgot about the Koenig Sphere. Is it still over at Battery Park or whereever it was put once it was dug up from the wreckage of the former towers?
Guess that it has found a permenant home there.

Yep! Happened to spot it during my visit to NYC:

http://i1217.photobucket.com/albums/dd389/exodiusprime/408.jpg

[uakoops]

Supposedly it will be moved to Liberty Park (on top of the VSC), once that is complete.

[BStyles]

Far from where it once stood, but at least it'll be part of the site. I know now, that it obviously can't sit on the memorial (it was meant for trees and people, not couple dozen-ton artifacts) and underground defeats the purpose.

[uakoops]

If they put it back right where it was originally it would be on the sidewalk of greenwich street, just south of the middle of the box girder.

[Daquan13]

I wonder if it will be repaired & refurbished back to its new-like shiny appearance before it is returned to the site. Like it was before the terror attacks.

I think that it should be put somewhere between the North & South Pools.

[Music Man]

I wonder if it will be repaired & refurbished back to its new-like shiny appearance before it is returned to the site. Like it was before the terror attacks.

I think that it should be put somewhere between the North & South Pools.


The artist, Fritz Koenig, said he preferred to keep it as "a beautiful corpse."


"It now has a different beauty, one I could never imagine. It has its own life — different from the one I gave to it."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Sphere

[HoveringCheesecake]

Definitely should leave it as it is.

[stache]

^ Agree.

[Daquan13]

Yeah, the South Tower's top part tilted, while the North Tower began collapsing at the core, as the antenna was the first visible thing to give in and fall.

[lofter1]

Glows in the dark ...

.13758

[Daquan13]

Looks nice!!

[steve1young]

I like the way the roof appears in the renders, but obviously that is not what we're going to see, given what appears to be the stairwell structure protrusion.

Something to ponder: If you, as a designer, couldn't eliminate the stairwell structure protrusion, how would you design the roof? And/or, what's your best guess as to what we're eventually going to see?

[TommyB]

The roof is not complete. It has been stated in the design docs. that the roof will be of equal quality to the walls. The stairs will be tucked under the roof panels.

[lofter1]

Ooops ^ cross posted. Like TommyB says ...

They've only just started to erect all the stanchions & framework atop the roof that will support the panels as seen in the renders. Based on the architectural images, that part of the roof structure will raise the roof elevation so that the stairwell protrusion will be more fully hidden. It will also serve to hide the roof-top ventwork and other mechanicals, pieces of which seem to be sitting up top and waiting installation.

[westmc9th]

renderings from the discovery program starting thursday

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also a nice preview including an interview from pataki
http://bcove.me/akrg8mkn

[lofter1]

I was going to take a look at the vid ... until I read about the interview with old Potato Head (who I've just heard is thinking of wasting a lot of people's money by jumping into the 2012 race for POTUS).

[Vivit]

13865

Is the pavilion roof coming soon? It looks like they're putting wooden decking or something on the far end.

[Pinkie]

Some shots of the Visitors Center from yesterday:

http://img847.imageshack.us/img847/4686/28331727.jpg

http://img202.imageshack.us/img202/5223/89297668.jpg

http://img689.imageshack.us/img689/5070/23290493.jpg

http://img854.imageshack.us/img854/5936/68180920.jpg

[Sherpa]

That's pure class!!:)

[mariab]

Judging by the rendering in post 742, all the crap visible on the roof will eventually be covered up. Hopefully.

[BigMac]

Architectural Record video featuring Snøhetta principal Craig Dykers:

http://tinyurl.com/3asm2yp

[BigMac]

Gary Dunaier (http://www.flickr.com/photos/gary_dunaier/6210052612/) on Flickr
September 30, 2011

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6047/6210052612_c452fcab34_z.jpg

[TallGuy]

The more I see of this structure the more I love it. BTW the photo by Gary Dunaier above: Gary is a HUGE contributor to Baseball-Fever.com and his photos have documented the demolition of SHea and old Yankee Stadiums in historical quality detail, as well as the construction of the new facilities.