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fioco
May 25th, 2005, 03:42 PM
The New Yorker
May 30, 2005

The Sky Line

A New Beginning
Why We Should Build Apartments at Ground Zero

By Paul Goldberger

In the lives of cities, boldness and vision rarely follow catastrophe. Chicago rebuilt itself in sturdy but mundane fashion after its great fire, in 1871; it was thirty-eight years before Daniel Burnham created the sweeping master plan that gave the city much of its grandeur. After the San Francisco earthquake of 1906, the city set aside a plan to remake itself with grand boulevards and focused instead on reconstructing as much as it could on its four square miles of burned ruins. Berlin tolerated the wasteland of Potsdamer Platz in its center for more than half a century, from the Second World War to the nineteen-nineties; the void at its heart was then filled with slick but banal commercial buildings.

Still, it seemed reasonable to hope that things would be different at Ground Zero. In the anguished months after September 11th, when people eventually began thinking about what should happen to the sixteen acres that had been the site of the World Trade Center, they talked either of ambitious, utopian projects – international centers for peace, memorials in the form of great towers – or of leaving the entire site as an open public space dedicated to the people who died in the terrorist attack. There were calls to hand over a portion of the site to Frank Gehry’s audacious design for a new GuggenheimMuseum, which had been proposed for another location in lower Manhattan. Architects from Michael Graves to Paolo Soleri offered creative schemes for Ground Zero, and although many of the plans made little sense, they heightened the expectation that something extraordinary was likely to happen there – indeed, that something extraordinary had to happen, that vision and imagination were the only proper response to the tragedy.

Ground Zero, sadly, has become not a place of vision but, rather, the site of a planning and political catastrophe. In public, the planning process has been surrounded by lofty, often sanctimonious rhetoric; in private, the numerous officials and designers have squabbled ceaselessly over power and money. In the next few weeks, the planners will present a revised design for the project’s centerpiece – the FreedomTower, a seventy-story office building topped by a crown of latticed steel cables so enormous that it would have made the structure the tallest skyscraper in the world. The new design will undoubtedly look better than the present version, a clumsy hybrid of the work of two rivals: David Childs, known for his corporate skyscrapers, and Daniel Libeskind, the official master planner for Ground Zero, who is a creator of extravagant sculptural forms. Officially, the current design was derailed by security concerns. But Larry Silverstein, the tower’s developer, had been struggling for months with the planners over whether he would pay for the latticed top, or for any other element that would make the tower more than an ordinary office building.

The FreedomTower, with or without its fancy spire, is an unnecessary building. The planned skyscraper, which will contain 2.6 million square feet of commercial office space, doesn’t have a single tenant – an unsurprising fact, since the demand for commercial office space in lower Manhattan is so small that it can barely be said to exist. The tower, it seems, is being built not to ennoble, enliven, or enrich the city but to satisfy the narrow, self-interested agendas of Silverstein, who leased the TwinTowers in 2001, and the Port Authority, which build the WorldTradeCenter and still controls the land. Silverstein, for his part, is largely building with insurance money instead of borrowing, as developers usually do, and he figures that he will be well positioned in the unlikely event that the lower Manhattan office market rebounds. Meanwhile, the Port Authority receives ten million dollars a month in rent that Silverstein still pays, under the terms of his lease.

Governor George Pataki, who has overseen the rebuilding effort, bears the greatest responsibility for the failure of imagination at Ground Zero. Though he has spoken frequently about wanting to have an open and public planning process, his most important decision about the site was made in private. Not long after September 11th, he agreed to let Silverstein and the Port Authority continue to treat Ground Zero as a platform for ten and a half million square feet of commercial office space. In the emotional atmosphere that followed September 11th, it would have been easy politically for Pataki to have said he wanted to use some of the billions of dollars in insurance proceeds to buy the land back from the Port Authority and end Silverstein’s lease. But Pataki, perhaps thinking that it was in his political interest to get something built as soon as possible, was unwilling to oppose these entrenched forces.

Pataki tried to cloak expediency in the garb of majesty, but he hasn’t been able to carry off either one. The planning process has been presented as an effort to transform the site into a symbol of grace and renewal; in reality, the planners have been fixated on figuring out a way to cram a huge amount of office space into a small site. In addition to the FreedomTower, the master plan calls for four additional office towers – even though there are no prospective tenants for them, either. Less than half of the site has been set aside for a memorial and cultural buildings, not enough to make public space seem central to the project. With the focus on generating profit, it is increasingly hard to see what makes Ground Zero different from any other real-estate project in New York, except for its size and, of course, for the way in which its land became available.

Since there has never been a true public dialogue about what Ground Zero ought to be used for, it’s impossible to say what New Yorkers would prefer to see built there, but it’s clear that the answer isn’t a crowded cluster of office towers. (Donald Trump last week advocated building replicas of the TwinTowers, one story higher than the originals, but the idea of spending billions to repeat one of the major architectural mistakes of the twentieth century is even worse than the current plan.) Ground Zero doesn’t need simply to be rebuilt; it needs to be reimagined as a new district of the city, one that is both inspiring and useful. And what lower Manhattan needs now, more than anything, is housing.


In the traumatic period after the TwinTowers collapsed, most people found the notion of living at Ground Zero to be upsetting, even ghoulish. Many apartments at Battery Park City were abandoned after September 11th, and the Lower Manhattan Development Corporation, the agency in charge of revitalizing downtown, had to offer subsidies to persuade new tenants to occupy them.

This aversion to living in lower Manhattan was surprisingly short-lived. There are now more residents in the area than ever before. As it turns out, September 11th only briefly interrupted a long-term trend. Manhattan has suffered from an apartment shortage for more than a decade, and people who once wouldn’t have considered living below Fourteenth Street have begun exploring options on the island’s southern tip. When the WorldTradeCenter was built, in the nineteen-seventies, almost nobody lived in lower Manhattan, but when the TwinTowers fell, there were more than fifteen thousand people living in their shadow. In the past few years, dozens of old office buildings have been transformed into apartments, bringing thousands of additional residents to lower Manhattan, and the pace of conversions ahs made many of the area’s slender prewar towers much more valuable as apartments than as offices. Even the building overlooking Ground Zero – an ornate, mansard-roofed 1907 office tower by the architect Cass Gilbert, which was badly damaged on September 11th – is being converted into a luxury-apartment complex. New condominiums have, in turn, inspired the creation of restaurants, stores, gyms, and day-care centers. Wall Street now has nearly as many residential buildings as office buildings, and Whole Foods recently signed a lease to build a supermarket on Greenwich Street. An area that once contained a scattering of isolated homesteaders is coming to seem as domestic as Carnegie Hill.

There is still time to create an intelligent plan for Ground Zero, although it is going to be harder politically, and more expensive, than it would have been if Pataki had wrested control of the site from Silverstein and the Port Authority. Fortunately, we have one advantage that we did not have then, which is that we are beyond the time when we looked at the skyline of lower Manhattan and felt a sense of shock at the absence of the TwinTowers. We can now comfortably make long-term decisions about the site.

In an ideal plan, most of Ground Zero would be devoted to housing, hotels, and retail space. Lower Manhattan currently has a range of housing options: the converted lofts of Tribeca, the converted office buildings of Wall Street, and the retro-style apartment complexes at Battery Park City. The one thing missing is experimental architecture. Ground Zero would be the perfect place for an inventive alternative to the prim, packaged urbanism of Battery Park City. Here is a chance to rewrite the city – to produce “green” buildings that generate their own energy or have walls made from recycled materials. Architects have developed a new generation of prefabricated modern houses, and Ground Zero could be the place to expand these sleek glass-and-metal boxes to monumental urban scale. Another possibility is to create modular lofts that could be easily adapted to the needs of a succession of tenants, or to integrate large gardens into high-rise living. With several blocks to build on, Ground Zero provides an opportunity to think not in terms of single buildings that are stand-alone works of sculpture but of ensembles that fit together to make coherent streetscapes and complete neighborhoods – something modern architecture has rarely succeeded in doing, in New York or anywhere else.

Daring residential design is finally beginning to appear all over Manhattan. There is, for example, a spectacular glass condominium by Winka Dubbeldam a dozen blocks north of Ground Zero, on Greenwich Street; Richard Meier’s exquisite glass apartment towers, in the WestVillage along the Hudson River, may be New York’s most coveted new address. A housing market that was once defined largely by white brick is more amenable to new architecture than it has ever been. We are at a point in time when strong architecture carries minimal risk.

What does seem risky is building office space. Not only does Larry Silverstein have to find tenants for the FreedomTower, if he builds it, but he also has to fill another building, across the street from Ground Zero, which he has already constructed: a seven-hundred-million-dollar glass tower built as a replacement for SevenWorldTradeCenter. That building, designed by David Childs, will be ready for occupancy next year. Predictably, it has no tenants.

These days, many planners and public officials try to justify building office towers at Ground Zero with words like “balance.” They argue that the demand for housing in lower Manhattan has become so great that the area is at risk of losing its identity as a strong commercial center. This view seems excessively dire: Wall Street is hardly fading into oblivion. Moreover, it seems foolhardy to interfere with the larger shifts in the evolution of lower Manhattan, especially when those trends are so healthy.

Lower Manhattan hasn’t been a truly diverse neighborhood since the nineteenth century, when the city’s center of gravity began creeping uptown and office towers started surrounding TrinityChurch, crowding out residential life. Now that the cycle has reversed, the planning for Ground Zero seems frozen in the past. Surely, it would be better to knits its sixteen acres into the vibrant new fabric of downtown.

The only element of the current plan that is worth salvaging is the need for a potent memorial. A memorial has to be not only the physical center of those sixteen acres but also the sould of the project. Daniel Libeskind, in his master plan for Ground Zero, adopted in 2003, had the brilliant notion of leaving a large section of the excavated site below ground level and incorporating a concrete retaining wall that survived the fall of the TwinTowers. This sunken space would break up the normal urban experience, creating a disquieting disruption in city life. But when a competition was held to design an actual memorial, the winners, Michael Arad and Peter Walker, produced a scheme that raised most of the memorial area back to street level. Libeskind, whose ideas for the site have been slowly undermined by Silverstein and others, was right in this case. Although the Arad and Walker plan is refined and intelligent, the danger is that the memorial will feel like an elegant park lost amid office towers.

In its current form, the memorial also feels squeezed by one of the two cultural buildings planned for the site: a wood-and-glass structure designed by the Norwegian firm Snøhetta, which will contain both the Drawing Center, a small museum, and the International Freedom Center, a new institution with the ambitious, if hazy, mandate of “helping people understand, appreciate and advance freedom as a world historical movement.” The design, which consists of a large, boxy structure made of wood set with thousands of small glass prisms, is among the most innovative pieces of architecture so far proposed for Ground Zero – a shimmering object, neither opaque nor transparent. Unfortunately, it hovers on the edge of the memorial site and, as a result, may dwarf it. And if the master plan is realized, both the Snøhetta building and a performing-arts center across the street, which is being designed by Frank Gehry, will cower directly beneath huge office buildings. The Gehry building, for its part, faces an uncertain future, owing to funding problems, and its design remains incomplete. A replanned Ground Zero would put the public realm first and the private realm second.

Moreover, most of the cultural institutions involved are marginal. Ground Zero doesn’t need expensive cultural buildings for small outfits that can’t afford them. One of the many mysteries of the planning process is why strong cultural groups that wanted to come to Ground Zero, such as the New York City Opera and the New York Hall of Science, were turned away in favor of less well known organizations, such as the JoyceInternational DanceCenter and the Signature Theatre Company. Why wasn’t space at Ground Zero given to City Opera? The planners adopted the misguided notion that smaller, populist groups were needed, when pride of place should have been given to major institutions that could make Ground Zero a cultural magnet. Perhaps City Opera was turned down because an opera house would have cut into some of Silverstein’s lobby space in the FreedomTower. An essential aspect of a revised plan for Ground Zero would be a much larger allotment for cultural buildings – enough land for an opera house, for example.

Ground Zero must also make an impression on the skyline. The FreedomTower, for all its faults, would have soared higher than any other structure in New York. Yet an office tower is not the only tall structure imaginable. A great tower can also be a broadcast tower or a cloud-piercing observation tower. It could be a memorial in itself, or a part of a memorial, and if we called it the MemorialTower it would be a feature of the skyline that recognized the lives that were lost within the skyline. The tower would be, in effect, a twenty-first century EiffelTower for New York, which would use the technology of our time as aggressively and inventively as Eiffel exploited the technology of the nineteenth century. It would be a perfect commission for Santiago Calatrava, the Spanish architect-engineer whom the Port Authority commissioned to design the new transportation center for downtown – a lyrical structure that resembles a vast, swooping tent of ribbed metal and glass. It’s the one building proposed for Ground Zero, so far, that almost everyone seems to love.

A great tower by Calatrava or another architect equally adept at turning engineering into poetic form would give New York the defiantly proud icon it has craved since the towers fell. And it wouldn’t require anybody to live or work a hundred stories above the street. Most important, it would be a way of transcending the false divide between commemoration and renewal. A soaring tower can be made to coexist with apartments and museums. The planners at Ground Zero have treated the sacred and the everyday as two distinct spheres. The answer isn’t to spit the site into a memorial sector and a business sector but, rather, to find ways to honor the dead while rejuvenating the city, to acknowledge the past while looking toward the future. Ground Zero is the first great urban-design challenge of the twenty-first century, and the noblest way to honor what happened here is to rebuild the site with the complexity and vitality that characterizes the best of Manhattan.

Volume LXXXI, No. 15, pp. 54-57, May 30, 2005, The New Yorker.

TomAuch
May 25th, 2005, 05:03 PM
Actually I sort of agree with Goldberger on this one. I won't be upset if they eliminate one of the towers on the site and scale back to 8-9 million sqf, and I think that Calatrava would do a better job of designing the FT than Childs (I love his South Street Tower, and besides the WTC, his building will be the next most-iconic in the Lower Manhattan skyline). If they built a CN Tower-style structure, they could just turn that land back over to the PA so Silverstein won't lose money on it. However, I would also like for Lower Manhattan to recover financially, and with the rate that old buildings are being converted, that will shrink Lower Manhattan's vancacy rate to the point where it's not a big an issue.

Fabrizio
May 25th, 2005, 05:58 PM
I often disagree with goldberger but I appreaciate his mature reasoned thinking.... no sensationalism and cheap sentiment...

billyblancoNYC
May 25th, 2005, 06:45 PM
I can see where he's coming from. I do kinda agree about the Freedom Center building. This would be better located in place of Tower 5, and have the memorial take over that space. Next to that building, in the open space, you could put City Opera.

Then, increase the heights of the other 4, and make them all mixed-use...office, hotel, and apartments. That would really make this development more successful financially, it would allow for more height, and be more appealling aesthetically.

I do not think, however, that the area should not have office space built. That's crazy and once everything is settled, and the link to JFK is built, and new parks and schools are added, and more retail is developed, then Lower Manhattan will be almost as attractive as Midtown. Then, the need will be there.

alex ballard
May 25th, 2005, 07:12 PM
One thought to keep in mind is that Lower Manhattan was truly meant to be a buisness center. The minute that real-estate bubble bursts, people will be heading towards the saftey of Soho or the leafy retreats of Brooklyn and Queens. I feel Lower Manhattan's conversion is pure spectaultion. After all, how long will you put up with being a subway ride away from...everything.

Those apartments could always be converted back to offices, and alot easier I suspect. No worries.

TomAuch
May 26th, 2005, 12:23 AM
New York Magazine had a chart for most "at-risk" neighborhoods when the bubble pops. Recently created neighborhoods in the financial district were given a 9 (on a scale from 1-10, with 10 being high risk). Newly gentrified parts of Harlem, second-home regions like the Hamptons and Catskills, and recently gentrified parts of Brooklyn were also classified as at risk. Midtown, the Village/Soho/Tribeca, established parts of Brooklyn, and the suburbs are considered safe or relatively.

pianoman11686
May 26th, 2005, 12:39 AM
No surprise, given as all of the neighborhoods rated as stable are places where upper middle class and wealthy families have lived for decades. Downtown is only a recent residential phenomenon. I don't think we should use that historical method to discredit this article's proposal. I think making the WTC mixed use is a great idea.

BPC
May 26th, 2005, 01:01 AM
Goldberger's article is such a piece of crap it makes me want to cancel my New Yorker subscription.

ZippyTheChimp
May 26th, 2005, 01:11 AM
Moreover, most of the cultural institutions involved are marginal. Ground Zero doesn’t need expensive cultural buildings for small outfits that can’t afford them. One of the many mysteries of the planning process is why strong cultural groups that wanted to come to Ground Zero, such as the New York City Opera and the New York Hall of Science, were turned away in favor of less well known organizations, such as the JoyceInternational DanceCenter and the Signature Theatre Company. Why wasn’t space at Ground Zero given to City Opera? The planners adopted the misguided notion that smaller, populist groups were needed, when pride of place should have been given to major institutions that could make Ground Zero a cultural magnet. Perhaps City Opera was turned down because an opera house would have cut into some of Silverstein’s lobby space in the FreedomTower. An essential aspect of a revised plan for Ground Zero would be a much larger allotment for cultural buildings – enough land for an opera house, for example.
It was obvious to anyone familiar with lower Manhattan prior to 09/11 what was lacking in the area - a defining civic institution. That was supposed to be rectified after 09/11, but the imperative to replace the office space and restore the skyline battled with the memorial space, and much of the cultural space was squeezed to the side. The Snohetta building does not relate well to the transportation hub. It would be better placed on the site of Deutsche Bank.

TomAuch
May 26th, 2005, 08:45 PM
No surprise, given as all of the neighborhoods rated as stable are places where upper middle class and wealthy families have lived for decades. Downtown is only a recent residential phenomenon. I don't think we should use that historical method to discredit this article's proposal. I think making the WTC mixed use is a great idea.
I used to be against the idea of cutting back the office space on the WTC, but since residential buildings don't have to worry about entire companies commiting to the upper floors, it may make the WTC sucessful again, since those who are most enthusiastic will live there, as opposed to companies who need near unanimous agreement from their employees to feel comfortable renting there. I just hope that Downtown doesn't suffer too badly from the real estate bubble, because it will give the Anti-Rebuilders and passionate Memorialists another excuse to leave that hole in the ground empty.

kliq6
May 27th, 2005, 09:54 AM
Why they should build apartments there is simple, there is no Lower Manhattan commercial demand anymore, all firm want Midtown, based on so many factors its hard to count.

This is why the Far West Side must be developed

Nordica
May 31st, 2005, 05:42 PM
Why not take Goldberger's concept a step further, build a self contained urban neighborhood. Live, work, shop, soak up culture, ect., all without having to leave the site. A prison of choice with a "get out of jail free" card.
There'd be plenty of takers.
No one has yet come up with a forward-thinking viable idea, or done a real feasibility study on what's on the table. So far it's the same old stuff wrapped in new packaging. The look, height, and political statement have been the main focus.

Fabrizio
May 31st, 2005, 06:35 PM
Here´s my dumb sugestion:

Build a permanent Worlds Fair. Every democracy gets to have a space just like the great World Fair´s of the past. If individual pavillions are impossible because of lack of space, then it will be vertical. It will all take place around the memorial. This way NY will make a great gesture to the rest of the world and the rest of the world will participate.... what better way to "send a message to the terrorists" and not lose face with this tenent-less not-quite tallest building in the world nonsense.

alex ballard
May 31st, 2005, 08:28 PM
Maybe we should simply sell it off to private developers?


Think about it: Run Fulton and Greenwich streets through the site and sell off the plots except the part between West/Futlon/Church/Greenwich, which will be the memorial. The other plots, (about 4) can build about 8 buidlings, so sell 8 plots off.


Then that rasies the money for Silverstien (or maybe Silverstein can sell it himself?) and we get something built.

even if it's a bunch of medicore 60 story office towers, it's the triumph of capitalism. Which is what's really importaint here.

TomAuch
May 31st, 2005, 09:20 PM
Mediocrity can never be accepted on a site that is entitled to something grand. Capitalism cannot be the dominant force in this rebuilding process, but it is simply the type of energy that will be restored to the site.

kz1000ps
May 31st, 2005, 11:52 PM
Mediocrity on Ground Zero? What happened to civic pride and beauty? Money, contrary to what modern society wants you to believe, is not the one and only thing to consider, otherwise we'd be staring at 60's/70's era bottom-line shit for the rest of our lives. I resent being forced to be around such ugliness, and I do NOT consider this to be civilization progressing. Everyone is watching Ground Zero (or at least when the media tells them to) and to knowingly put bland, banal buildings on those 16 acres would show that economics have triumphed the human spirit. I flat out reject that - Ground Zero deserves the chance to have a soul for all those other souls lost.

alex ballard
June 1st, 2005, 04:36 PM
Capitalism is what NY is about. It's what America is about.

If I was given two choices:

1) a restored, empty twin towers.

2) 8 60-80 story towers filled to the brim with hundreds of thousands of wall street brokers driving America.

I would pick the second in a heartbeat.

Of course, two twin towers, or a Freedom Tower with all those brokers churning away would be the best. But let's be realistic. CEO Bob doesn't care. His company sluaughters children in Africa, why would he care about the building he's in?


Sometimes, you have to take a stand on some things and comprimse on others. If the tax revenues from that mediocre 60 story corporate office tower help a child in Bed-Stuy go to a better school, then I frankly couldn't give a shit. Some things are more importiant that buildings.....

ZippyTheChimp
June 1st, 2005, 04:59 PM
If capitalism is all we are about, then we are buttheads.

Clarknt67
June 1st, 2005, 06:04 PM
If capitalism is all we are about, then we are buttheads.

I guess it's what Alex is about. I have other priorities than what an Excel spreadsheet tells me about the bottom line. Thank god, I'm not alone.

Schadenfrau
June 1st, 2005, 06:19 PM
Personally, I can't even choose which dress to wear in the morning. I just let the market decide.

alex ballard
June 1st, 2005, 06:28 PM
The fact is this:


9/11 marked the end of not just the Twin Towers, but the end of the advancement of America. We've replaced tolerance and courage for fear and hate. In this, Ground Zero is the embodiment of this death. A site once teeming with life, is now without a soul.

This has been buidling up and has reached it's climax. But the hope is this: By bringing jobs and oppertuniy to NYC via the redevelopment of Ground Zero, we bring more hope into the communites of the city, where Americas future truly lies.





Also, I find it semi-ignorant of you to say that I embody cheapness and non-creativty. I guess you didn't see (or choose not to) the thread about how to bring back Lower Manhattan. My wild dreams for Ground Zero (I suggested going 200 floors, no one has beat that as of so far.) or my enthusiasm for NY's evolution into a safer, nicer, more successful place.


Some things are more importaint that buildings.....And you must realize that we must be realistic. Making Lower Manhattan the financial capital of the world again is realistic and can happen. Expecting that to happen after years of wasting time and fighting and complaining. Not realistic.

kz1000ps
June 1st, 2005, 07:12 PM
even if it's a bunch of medicore 60 story office towers, it's the triumph of capitalism. Which is what's really importaint here.

You may not embody cheapness and a lack of creativity, but that comment sure seems to. I don't claim to truly know you, and I don't mean to single you out, but I've been finding some things rather inflammatory lately. YES capitalism is what New York and America are about, but it's not the only thing. Culture, life, vibrancy, assimilation - would New York be New York without those ingredients? What does drab architecture do to stimulate these? Ah, but the tax rolls...of course.

And thank you for the laugh regarding mentioning an African child being killed for the Man and some unfortunate Bed-Stuy kid in need of a better education. That's pretty sick stuff. Just because this happens does not make it RIGHT. I may be idealistic, but that CEO is lacking in common sense and IMHO does not deserve to be alive.

Let us gaze into the crystal ball and see the future according to real hard capitalists left to their own devices, where each and every human life is given a numeric value so we Honest-To-God know exactly to the billionth of a cent what we're worth. Think of the money that could be saved on payrolls by knowing just who you're hiring! Wow, I'm no longer Phil, I'm 00005482996831. Sounds like I'm living life now!

<Refrain> Once again, that is not progress.

Clarknt67
June 1st, 2005, 07:15 PM
Capitalism is what NY is about. It's what America is about.

If I was given two choices:

1) a restored, empty twin towers.

2) 8 60-80 story towers filled to the brim with hundreds of thousands of wall street brokers driving America.

I would pick the second in a heartbeat.

But just building office space in no way ensures it will be filled with people earning paychecks. WTC 7 is nearly finished and has no tenants. Real estate brokers say there's little demand downtown.

alex ballard
June 1st, 2005, 07:31 PM
/\/\

Look, that sounds very scary and I will do my best to stop that from happening. But the fact is that how can NYC be a giuding light of human rights if it's irrelevant? The fact is that NYC can't be a model if we have no power. And that power comes from CEO Bob locating his offices here. Wihtout CEO Bob, there is no NY. And no NY, means the world will follow Atlanta...If you think you have nightmares now...


Seriously, the money provided from developing the WTC in a buisness sense will ultiamtely mean more to society than a tall, EMPTY tower. People won't see the beauty, they'll see that it's empty. Period.


So even though it pains me to say it, it's time CEO Bob takes the reighs and shpaes up the WTC into a place of buisness and life. Not cold momumentism, which is what the victimizing-vitcims, Pataki, and some on this board want to happen.



Some of you suggested that you'd prefer to a park over a 6th Ave style office park. If that's your view, you're just as responsible for the troubles of the child in Bed-Stuy as CEO Bob. I don't think you want that on your mind.

kz1000ps
June 1st, 2005, 07:31 PM
Also talking about realism, is a 200-story tower in New York in 2005 a realistic money-maker? Why did you say "no one has beat that so far" ? Is there a race here to throw out the tallest dreams? Ok, how about a 300-story tower?

And I don't pick and choose which threads I read, as if I have some way of knowing I'll read something I don't want to. Would anybody consciously think of selectively navigating threads/forums? That pot shot doesn't make much sense. I'm at this website more than any other, I take in a lot of information, and I apologize for not recalling your 200-story tower wild dream.

Nordica
June 1st, 2005, 08:16 PM
Seems what started this thread was Goldberger's suggestion of going residential since the commercial space wasn't looking feasible.
Back on post 12, I asked for some forward-thinking ideas that might actually get some takers.
Fabrizio came up with one that was worth considering, as did I, but now it's back to bickering about money and tall buildings.
If someone (not an architect), with some clout, could come up with a concept of use that made economic sense, then maybe some decent buildings could be designed around the concept.
There is no point in a creepy-looking empty skyline filler.

ZippyTheChimp
June 1st, 2005, 08:25 PM
I have no specific suggestions, but I think the planning was done backwards. In the rush to repair the skyline, no thought was given to first make the site attractive to tenants.

There is plenty of room for office space - maybe not 10 million sq ft, but is that much really needed.

I do think that a significant cultural institution should have been the first priority, along with the transportation center. I was disappointed that City Opera was passed over.

alex ballard
June 1st, 2005, 08:43 PM
Stop thinking. Start building.


WTF is so different about Ground Zero in terms of architecture than another construction site? In spirtual terms, yes, it's very importanit. But what's the fuss about having to have something "grand"? That's what public works are for. I say get some world-class architects and developers to build the non-memorial parts (ya know, the areas north of Fulton and East of Greenwich) and then have someone design a memorial park.


I simply want Lower Manhattan to be whole again. And if it means getting SOM instead of Frank Llyod Wright Jr, then so be it.

ZippyTheChimp
June 1st, 2005, 09:01 PM
There were articles written in the months after 09/11, some undoubtedly posted in this forum, that warned about the WTC site becoming just another office park.

That is just what you are going to get with
Stop thinking. Start building
You are entitled to have that vision, but I don't think it is intelligent city planning. Do you think throwing up 20 million sq ft of office space (as you have suggested in other threads), getting it past an EIS and filling it with tenants notwithstanding, is going to make Lower Manhattan "whole" again?

Do you think the pre 09/11 Lower Manhattan was whole? If you do, you are sadly mistaken.

fioco
June 2nd, 2005, 02:45 AM
Do you think the pre 09/11 Lower Manhattan was whole?
I posted the Goldberger article because I thought the strength of his argument could generate substantive discussion among the WiredNY community and propel us beyond the simplistic but wistful dreams to either rebuild the Twin Towers or create a 16 acre parkland memorial. But true discourse requires the humility to hear out contrary opinion, not to merely skim it but to thoughtfully consider all points and perspectives. One must also be ready to defer to strong factual evidence.

But when arguments become supercharged with emotion and thinking is reduced to black-and-white, two-dimensional constructs, it all begins to fall apart. These days discourse is hard to find in America.

The quote by ZippyTheChimp breaks through the selective nostalgia and the impassioned soliloquies. The first time I visited Downtown and Wall Street my reaction was stunned shock: This dump is the Financial Capital of the World? The Fulton Street subway station took my breath away, but not before I had inhaled its toxic brew of ancient decay and fermenting urine. I was not swept away like a lover by the grandeur of New York but rather by the vigor and energy of its people. Dirty, smelly, crowded . . . but could there be any other place I wanted to be? Since that first experience I have lived across the U.S. and traveled widely, yet my wanderlust has led me back to New York and the place where I have felt most at home.

Lower Manhattan was in great need of renewal. Its century-old transportation system hadn't seen improvements for generations (not hyperbole!). Many streets were fairly deserted after dark (I worked at those hours). The center of gravity had moved uptown with only edgy art and club scenes giving downtown any panache. Downtown was not devoid of improvements, but none of them were capable of the heavy lifting downtown needed.

The utter devastation of the terrorist attacks left us with no options than to build anew. And thus began the public conversations about what should arise at the WTC site and, more importantly, what transformations needed to take place in the downtown community, reaching north into Tribeca and Chinatown. Rebuilding a home for the capitalist spirit is only a part of downtown's next chapter, and I think, a small part. An enlightened and humanistic capitalism (uh oh, someone laughed and nearly choked! are you okay?) will flourish in fertile soil regardless of locii. As Wall Street moves toward electronic trading its geography will change somewhat too.

The argument (discourse) can't be reduced to housing vs. office vs. retail. It was not by accident that Goldberger entitled his article "A New Beginning." For decades -- for generations -- Lower Manhattan has needed re-imagination and a transforming vision. The horrific and heinous crimes of September 11th have obliterated the past; yet like a phoenix, the future emerges, tempered by the courage and compassion that endures from that event.

In the desire to separate the sacred from the profane -- to delineate the "memorial" aspects from the commercial components -- planners and dreamers inadvertently balkanize the site and hinder its ability to knit downtown into a cohesive and vibrant district that is financial, commercial, residential, and cultural. This "vision" is worthy of intense debate and heated discussion. With gloves off and thinking caps on, let's proceed . . .

kliq6
June 2nd, 2005, 10:21 AM
Alex im sorry to tell you but there is NO demand for Lower Manhattan office sapce at all, especially at Silverstein's crazy price

TonyO
June 2nd, 2005, 10:25 AM
Alex im sorry to tell you but there is NO demand for Lower Manhattan office sapce at all, especially at Silverstein's crazy price

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/02/nyregion/02morgan.html?

kliq6
June 2nd, 2005, 11:05 AM
Id like to take my last post back and say there is no demand for office space at the Trade Center site at Silversteins price tag, its 20 bucks higher then the WFC and the Class A properties on Water Street

djf17
June 2nd, 2005, 12:50 PM
Alex im sorry to tell you but there is NO demand for Lower Manhattan office sapce at all, especially at Silverstein's crazy price

Silverstein is asking the appropriate price for 7 world trade center - if NYC corporations really begin to hire at a significant pace like in the late 90s the space will be leased relatively easy...

Clarknt67
June 2nd, 2005, 06:39 PM
FIOCO, Thanks for the thoughtful post. ITA. It does seem to me that despite the horrific reason, the 16 acres are a opportunity for a re-imagining of what an urban neighborhood could be and a chance to address the shortcomings of downtown.

asg
August 16th, 2005, 03:35 PM
Mixed-use is instrumental to the future success of lower Manhattan. The number of condos being built or converted downtown today seems alarming to me. Look at Vancouver:



From archnewsnow.com

INSIGHT: Downtown Vancouver's Last Resort: How Did "Living First" Become "Condos Only?"


http://www.archnewsnow.com/features/images/Feature0174_01x.jpg


by Trevor Boddy
August 11, 2005



Restaurants are full, tourists pack the sidewalks, and the blunted vaults of condo towers rise ever skyward.



Downtown Vancouver appears to prosper, but in the complex world of city building, appearances can be deceiving. I am not for a moment questioning the prospering part – the whole world is scrambling to live and play on our downtown peninsula, with its paradisiacal combination of mountain and ocean vistas, parks, and urbanity.



I am, however, most certainly questioning the “downtown” part, because the city we are shaping in the current boom is something quite different from any notion of what a “downtown” is, was, or will be.



Paradise, yes, but because of short-sighted urban planning, downtown Vancouver may be becoming a fool's paradise. This is because people are coming to live and play here, but not to work. Director of central area planning Larry Beasley confirmed in a recent interview that no new office tower has started construction or even been proposed by developers for our downtown core in the new century.



None.



After the conversion of the West Coast Transmission Tower on West Georgia and two dozen other commercial buildings (both office and warehouse) into condominium apartments, our current council recently changed policy to require an impact study and its approval before further condo conversions downtown, lest our last stand of office towers also get transformed from places to work into places to live.



Why this is happening is revealed in a couple of disturbing facts about the current state of our core.



According to condo and live/work tower developer Ian Gillespie, there is now a five-to-one ratio between the economic return per square meter of new condominium apartments built in downtown Vancouver versus a square meter of new office space. This is unambiguous marketplace feedback telling us that our core is a brilliant place to live, visit, party, retire, and conventioneer, but a lousy place to do business, especially corporate business, which requires multiple floors of dedicated office space.



I mentioned this five-to-one ratio to a May 26 symposium at New York's Institute of Urban Design, and the assembled developers, realtors, planners, and architects there could not name another major city – anywhere – where the economic return from building condos so eclipses offices.



This ratio, in combination with some ham-handed re-zoning of a good part of the downtown peninsula in 1991 permitting housing in virtually every corner in our downtown, means that developers like Gillespie would be out of their minds to build places to work here, rather than places to sleep, such as hotels and condos. This downtown-reshaping policy, promoted by planners and approved by the Non-Partisan Association (NPA) council of those days, was called “Living First,” but in application it has evolved into “Condos Only.”



How could this have happened?


Downtown Vancouver faces the dismal prospect of fewer and fewer sites having the proper size and location for office towers. This will fix our destiny as a short-sighted residential resort, not the diverse and lively mixture of living and work that is a real downtown.



Whistler residents used to worry about their resort becoming “Vancouver-ized.” As a new home to global hot money, as apartment hub for a generation of Boomers wanting to retire in cities after lives in the suburbs, and with condos-as-commodities emerging as investments of choice, Vancouver ironically now has ample reason to worry that its downtown is becoming “Whistler-ized.”



In a major speech last year to developers at a meeting of their lobby organization – the Urban Development Institute – Beasley urged new investment to “Go east.” In other words, exploit some of the under-used land between Granville and the Downtown Eastside. To paraphrase my Saskatchewan progenitors, Beasley's advice was closing the barn door after the office horses had long departed.



Why has our land-use policy which, by definition, plans for future needs as well as current demand, not left more dedicated office tower sites in reserve where business actually wants them – west of Granville? There is only one phrase to describe the extent of the 1991 re-zonings, and the way they have been managed since – bad urban planning.



The number five pops up in a second factoid that – together with the first – seals the fate of our core as more of a resort than a conventional downtown. This second figure has to do with our vastly skewed property tax assessments, which soak businesses such as offices and stores in order to artificially lighten the financial load for residential property owners. Vancouver businesses pay five times the municipal taxes per square meter than houses and condos do – by far the highest such ratio among major Canadian cities.



The figures are vastly different for two of the cities that compete with us as locales for corporate headquarters operations, even regional branch offices. The ratio for Toronto is 3.3 to one, and for Calgary 2.7, but if businesses are mewling in those cities, you can imagine what a disincentive this makes for any private corporation contemplating offices within our boundaries.



In fact, our corporate sector – such as we had in this non-head-office town – has long ago left for the suburbs and other cities, Vancouver's office building developers leaving along with them. While Vancouver's council and mayor have fiddled away on hobbyhorse and wedge issues in their city building dossier (Jim Green on Woodward's, Tim Louis and Anne Roberts on Wal-Mart, Peter Ladner and Fred Bass on bike lanes, etc.), surrounding municipalities have been more aggressive in attracting offices and new jobs.



Burnaby has been quite successful as the new corporate hub of the Lower Mainland, and now has head offices like Ballard Power Systems that in any other metropolis would be located downtown. Burnaby has also invested heavily to attract the kind of regional offices for banks, high tech, and retail corporations that used to be located downtown. This is especially evident in the recreation possibilities and other amenities of its Glenlyons Parkway re-development.



The only high-rise office tower to open in the Lower Mainland since 2000 is Whalley's Central City, which after a slow start is now fully leased. (It was developed by the former provincial government, in part because, since the completion of Bentall Tower Five, no one is in the office tower business here anymore.)



There are solutions, but to date they have not washed in Vancouver’s strange world of municipal politics. A mild proposal to even out this skewing of property taxes onto the backs of business – to be phased in over a barely perceptible 20-year-long track of tiny incremental adjustments – went down to spectacular defeat by politicos who value short term happiness for house-owners over their city’s long-term health. When it opens as all condos next year, the former West Coast Transmission Tower will generate somewhere between one-half and one-fifth the property tax revenue that it did as an office tower.



The condo-boom-inducing downtown lifestyle depends on huge investments of our taxes in parks, transit, theatres, galleries, and schools, but with no success attracting office development, downtown might soon become a net importer of money for services and infrastructure.



Our current city planning regime's policy of “condos uber alles” is just fine, thank you very much, for our current condo developers, who are key funders of all three of our municipal parties.



So now you know the fools who currently run this fool's paradise.



The myopia of this trade-off is having stark consequences all over the Lower Mainland. Let's start with the implications for transportation of the “de-downtownization” of our core. With the first two SkyTrain lines, and now with the RAV line, we have a radial public transportation network, centred on jobs and shopping downtown. But ridership projections for this latest line predict more people leaving downtown to work in Richmond than coming into the centre.



Downtown as dormitory suburb?


Unless council shifts policy soon, this fate will come sooner rather than later. TransLink indicates the fastest growth in demand for pubic transportation is not trips into or out of downtown, but rather from people who might live in White Rock, for example, but have jobs in Maple Ridge – suburb-to-suburb travel patterns.



This accounts for the current mess that is the Port Mann Bridge, and the short-sighted provincial government plans to twin it, to be followed by Seattle-style networks of suburb-to-suburb freeways. Like those built in our sister city, these new roads will fill to capacity as soon as they open. Downtown as a jobs center not just condo hub is the best Green strategy the GVRD can adopt.



Another illustration comes from a comparison of peninsular San Francisco (population 788,000, 2005 est.) and peninsular Vancouver (population 580,000, 2005 est.), two cities of comparable population but completely incomparable status as homes to jobs and corporate hubs.



Nearly 900,000 people travel into downtown San Francisco daily, but only one third this number enter our core (and our figures are essentially flat, growing at a mere one percent annually, a worrying indicator that can not entirely be explained away by home workers, a factor in both cities).



Vancouver is too young to have grown San Francisco’s capital and business initiatives (the source of great corporations), but our current downtown land use policies ensure our success will eventually have to leave this burg. We may once have dreamed of taking our place in the list of the world's great cities, but unless something is changed soon to preserve and promote our downtown as a place to work, we will instead join Waikiki and Miami Beach on the list of resorts filling up with aging baby boomers lounging around their over-priced condos.



Beasley counters that many of Yaletown and Downtown South’s new condo owners will work from their apartments. Yes, being a home worker, I can relate to that. But what happens when these consultants and start-up companies need to hire their third employee? What happens when we information workers and “Cultural Creatives” have to flee this town because resort-based housing prices make it impossible for us to live and work here, even when we conduct both halves of our lives in 45-square-meter condo apartments with close vistas of other condo apartments?



It all comes down to planning.



Our de facto “condos only” downtown development strategy means high growth businesses will be obliged – by the diminishing options of set-in-concrete urban form – to move to other municipalities, taking their taxes with them.



While they place different policy interpretations on these facts, Larry Beasley and his staff are cognizant of all the urban forces described above, and some of them are as worried as I am about the future of downtown Vancouver.



In addition to requesting the council-approved temporary moratorium on the granting of “housing optional” bonuses for core downtown sites, Beasley has commissioned senior policy planner Ronda Howard and team to bring back a grandly-named “Metropolitan Core Jobs and Economy Land Use Plan” in 15 months.



There are two fatal flaws with how this long-needed report is being handled. First, its final draft will not be completed until long after the November civic election. Second, the report is being produced under Beasley's supervision and will be edited by him before release to the public. Beasley is a dedicated, even brilliant planner, but his entire career and international reputation is based on the seeming success of the “Living First” policy, of which he is the key author and continuing spokesman.



Vancouver needs its council and mayor to wake up, and prevent the cosy closed loops of police department committees evaluating failures in police policy, and senior planners evaluating the success of their own downtown development strategies.



Ultimately, both are political questions, not issues for senior mandarins of the departments in question to decide amongst themselves. Let’s hope our upcoming election campaign offers a real debate about alternative futures for Vancouver's core – as this may well be downtown's last resort.


Currently the architecture critic for The Vancouver Sun, Trevor Boddyhas taught architectural and urban design, history, and theory at the Universities of British Columbia, Oregon, Manitoba, and Toronto, and lectures globally on contemporary design and cities. He has worked as an urban designer for planning departments in Calgary and Edmonton, and consults on urban spaces, historic preservation, and architect selection processes across Canada, the United States, and Hong Kong.

elfgam
August 16th, 2005, 04:04 PM
This article is shear genius and is a clear warning about what is happening in NY... Take hotel to condo conversions (i.e. the plaza). These are happening at such a furious rate that they are affecting our tourist and convention sectors because of the serious shortage of rooms. Despite the fact that the average hotel room in Manhattan is 280 bucks, these rooms are still not more profitable than the same square footage being used for condo. Zoning, etc. are supposed to prevent the pure exploitation of land for immediate economic gain by thinking in the long term -- this means saving us from copper mines pollution or from condo-suffication.

BrooklynRider
August 16th, 2005, 05:31 PM
I believe the thinking in the Bloomberg Administration is: create housing (whether it is housing within economic reach of the average working full-time NYC resident or not), shut down old hotels and commercial buildings to spur development in the Far West Side, Brooklyn, Queens and Downtown. It's simplistic, but very clear.

billyblancoNYC
August 16th, 2005, 07:08 PM
I believe the thinking in the Bloomberg Administration is: create housing (whether it is housing within economic reach of the average working full-time NYC resident or not), shut down old hotels and commercial buildings to spur development in the Far West Side, Brooklyn, Queens and Downtown. It's simplistic, but very clear.

Yes. The problem is that there seems to be too much belief in the fact that "old" commericial buildings are useless for anything other than residential...which is bullshit. Everyone doesn't NEED 50Ksf floorplates.

While I am not sold on the hotel issue...seems that over the next few years,the city will actually net more rooms, the DT commerical core is being stripped away and needs to be preserved. Bizarre that everyone wants to improve transportation to DT, but let every damn building be converted to residential. Hopefully the new commericial incentives and removal of residential incentives will make a dent.

debris
August 16th, 2005, 07:52 PM
I think the most salient point the article makes is about property taxes. Now, anyone from NJ knows how much residents hate property taxes. They are very low in NYC by comparison, but the commercial property tax (and other business taxes) are sky high. That could be driving some of the condo-to-office return ratio that you see downtown. Redoing the tax system would be a cleaner way of fixing things than messing around with zoning, which is, at the end of the day, a very blunt tool for planning.

My personal preference is to reduce corporate taxes in favor of residential property taxes, income tax, and especially, a tax on vacant lots (which by the way, is perhaps the only good idea Ferrer has had in his life). Yes, people hate property and income taxes, but the money to pay for services has to come from somewhere. Think about it: they must be too low compared to corporate taxes, because voters complain about them, so its easier to dump the responsibility on corporations, and for Bloomberg to buy votes in eastern Queens by giving property tax rebates. Vancouver seems to have taken this logic to its extreme.

stache
August 16th, 2005, 11:00 PM
Taxes on sales of apartments is the cash cow right now for New York. It has always been the nature of Manhattan to move North. If they make downtown a better transit hub, I think it would attain the vitality of the Grand Central area. Plus they need to mix in a hip element, like the lower East Side has. Boy is that going to be a tough one!

BrooklynRider
August 17th, 2005, 12:16 AM
... Plus they need to mix in a hip element, like the lower East Side has...

They can start by bringing in better heroin.

NYatKNIGHT
August 17th, 2005, 11:13 AM
....and a red light district while we're wishing.

But seriously folks....downtown could use a livlier night scene. At least more live music.

stache
August 17th, 2005, 02:52 PM
They can start by bringing in better heroin.

Yes I notice that Amish gang has been cutting it with applebutter. *wink*