PDA

View Full Version : String of Blasts Hit London in Rush Hour



Edward
July 7th, 2005, 08:54 AM
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/07/07/international/europe/07cnd-explosion.html

July 7, 2005
Blair Calls Subway and Bus Blasts a Terror Attack; at Least 2 Killed

By SARAH LYALL (http://query.nytimes.com/search/query?ppds=bylL&v1=SARAH LYALL&fdq=19960101&td=sysdate&sort=newest&ac=SARAH LYALL&inline=nyt-per)
LONDON, July 7 - London was struck by a series of at least seven separate and apparently coordinated terrorist explosions in subways and buses during the morning rush hour this morning. The explosions ripped apart at least one double-decker bus and caused officials to close and evacuate the entire subway system.

There were many casualties, but officials said it was still too early to tell how many of them were injuries. There were at least two dead. Witnesses reported seeing dozens of people stumbling out of subway stations, coughing, and black with soot. Dozens more were being loaded into ambulances on stretchers and taken to hospitals around the city.

In a televised statement from the Group of Eight summit meeting of world leaders, Prime Minister Tony Blair said it was "reasonably clear" that the explosions had been an act of terrorism.

"It is reasonably clear that there has been a series of terrorist attacks in London," Mr. Blair said. "There are obviously casualties - with people that have died and people are seriously injured."

He added, "Just as it is reasonably clear that this is a terrorist attack or a series of terrorist attacks, it is also reasonably clear that it is designed and aimed to coincide with the opening of the G-8."

Mr. Blair said he planned to travel to London from Gleneagles, Scotland, within the next few hours, and then return to Scotland for the summit this evening. In his absence, he said, the summit would continue.

"It is the will of all of the leaders of the G-8, however, that the meeting should continue in my absence, that we should continue to discuss the issues we were going to discuss - and reach the conclusions which we were going to reach," Mr. Blair said.

He added that it was "particularly barbaric" that the attacks had occurred during a summit intended to aid people in developing nations.

Traces of explosives were found at one of the blast sites, said the chief commissioner of London's Metropolitan Police, Ian Blair, according to Reuters.

The police official said explosions had taken place at or around the subway stations at Edgware Road, King's Cross, Liverpool Street, Russell Square, Aldgate East and Moorgate. He declined to speculate on the cause, but added, "We are concerned that this is a coordinated attack."

Television pictures showed people with bloody faces and bandages on their faces and heads.

The explosions came a day after London celebrated winning the bid for the 2012 Olympic Games.

Roger Clark, who was riding on a bus to work in central London, said he had seen a double-decker bus on the street ahead of him suddenly explode.

"The top rear section of the bus exploded, ripping apart the whole of the bus," he told CNN. "It lifted about 10 meters above the bus."

The bus, he said, had been "packed" with people.

Other witnesses reported seeing "multiple casualties, multiple bodies."

British Home Secretary Charles Clarke said there had been "terrible injuries."

Mobile phones and land lines were not working because the systems had been overloaded. Large sections of central London had been cordoned off.

At Tavistock Square, a parking attendant, Ade Soji, said that the driver of the bus that exploded had stopped him just before it took place. "I was helping a member of the public with directions when the bus stopped and the driver asked me the name of the street," Mr. Soji told the Press Association. "I told him Tavistock Square and he called me over. Just as I was about to go, I heard the bus explode. In another second I would have been dead. I had to run for my life."

Witnesses reported that the top of the bus was seared off like a sardine can.

Mr. Blair, London's police commissioner, said that since the attacks of Sept. 11, 2001, in the United States, London's emergency services had been preparing for such an incident and that "the situation is being controlled." He warned people to "stay where you are" and not to attempt to travel around London - in addition to the subway closures, much of the bus system was also closed - and not to call the police or ambulance services unless there was a life-threatening emergency.

At St. Mary's Hospital in Paddington, officials reported that they had admitted four people with critical injuries, like loss of arms and legs; eight with serious injuries, including head wounds, smoke inhalation and lacerations; and four with more minor injuries, including temporary hearing loss.

Loyita Worley, who works for a city law firm, told the BBC that she was in the subway when an explosion took place in the next carriage, while it was in a tunnel.

Ms. Worley, 49, said: "All the lights went out and the train came to an immediate halt. There was smoke everywhere and everyone was coughing and choking, but remained calm. We couldn't open the doors."

After the doors were opened they were taken to Liverpool Street station, Ms. Worley said. She said that the carriage where the explosion took place was "black on the inside" and that she had seen people who appeared to have their clothes blown off, as well as bodies lying inside the carriage.

London's airports have remained opened and subway stations could be reopened soon, though buses will continue to be out of service for now, said Mr. Clarke, the British home secretary.

"People are strongly advised not to travel into central London as the emergency services must be allowed to do their work in the most effective way that they can," Mr. Clarke said.

Ninjahedge
July 7th, 2005, 09:03 AM
So, how do you think we will respond?

Do you think this will bolster or further derail support of Bush and his policies against terrorism?

I can see how this can be used as another "Us vs. Them" seto of political positioning, I can also see this as a stanchion for the argument that things like the war in Iraq has little, if anything, to do with the War on Terrorism and is not preventing further attacks home or abroad for us or our allies.


I hope it is dealt with strait up, but I will bet money that everybody and their brother who is in politics will work it into some sort of blame or accreditation of our own leaders and policies. :p

Schadenfrau
July 7th, 2005, 11:18 AM
I wonder if Bush felt even a flicker of responsiblity for dragging Britain into his quagmire. What an all-around tragedy.

ZippyTheChimp
July 7th, 2005, 11:53 AM
I wonder if Bush felt even a flicker of responsiblity for dragging Britain into his quagmire. What an all-around tragedy.
Bush and Congress can take responsibility for US actions. Tony Blair and Parliament are ultimately responsible for the actions of the UK.

ryan
July 7th, 2005, 11:56 AM
excerpt from NY times (http://www.nytimes.com/2005/07/07/international/europe/07cnd-explosion.html?hp&ex=1120795200&en=58771b68dfe53a77&ei=5094&partner=homepage)... Bush exploits the tragedy to push his bs "war on terror" talking points:

"On the one hand, you have people working to alleviate poverty and rid the world of the pandemic of AIDS and ways to have clean a environment, and on the other hand, you have people working to kill other people," the president said. "The contrast couldn't be clearer between the intentions and the hearts of those of us who care deeply about human rights and human liberty, and those who kill, those who've got such evil in their hearts that they will take the lives of innocent folks. The war on terror goes on."

Schadenfrau
July 7th, 2005, 11:59 AM
Tony Blair said something similar in his initial address this morning. I was really surprised that he would pimp the G-8 PR at a time like this.

ZippyTheChimp
July 7th, 2005, 12:03 PM
Most of us know who the bad guys are George.

The war on terror is the unglamorous intelligence work that helps prevent these attacks, but every dollar spent in Iraq is a dollar less spent on that surveillance.

ryan
July 7th, 2005, 12:03 PM
More a time for words of grief and reassurance I would think. It's like they can't shake election-mode politics to just be human.

ZippyTheChimp
July 7th, 2005, 12:20 PM
Reuters/ITN photo

http://www.spiegel.de/img/0,1020,490504,00.jpg

TLOZ Link5
July 7th, 2005, 03:15 PM
I am shocked, saddened and enraged. How horribly ironic that this news comes the day after London won its Olympic bid.

Nothing can ever justify this sort of carnage. It can be argued by that the victims in the World Trade Center were unwitting cogs in the machinery of the military-industrial complex, but attacking a transportation system that is entirely in the realm of the public?

But the sad truth is that the perpetrators of this atrocity have convictions, and they believe they have just cause: eye for an eye, striking back against their oppressors. As long the root of those convictions exists, then, via the perpetual cycle of violence that it's become, the war on terror will continue.

ZippyTheChimp
July 7th, 2005, 03:31 PM
It's possible that this act was the work of a loosely formed ad hoc group, in which case it would have been difficult to detect and stop. There seem to be more militant Islamic groups (if that's who did this) in London than anywhere outside the Middle East.

lofter1
July 7th, 2005, 03:39 PM
But the sad truth is that the perpetrators of this atrocity have convictions, and they believe they have just cause: eye for an eye, striking back against their oppressors. As long the root of those convictions exists, then, via the perpetual cycle of violence that it's become, the war on terror will continue.

An eye for an eye clearly leads to very dangerous places and does continue the cycle. This could also describe some recent military actions:

1) US v. Panama (or GB1 v. Noriega)

2) US v. Iraq I (or GB1 v. Saddam)

3) US v. Iraq II (or GB2 [as proxy for GB1] v. Saddam)

JCMAN320
July 7th, 2005, 06:31 PM
This makes me so madd that this happened. My prayers go out to everyone who has been affected by this. As resdients of the NYC and the surrounding area we empathize with them in how they feel after what we went through on 9-11. This BS will never stop apparently so the war on terror is a load of shit and waste of lives and money like it has been all long. The British are very resiliant this doen't phase them. They have this kind of attitude like OMG what was that...oh thats all...okay then let me go about my day. Remember this is the same city that survived a blitz of bombings everyday for 3 years in world war too, thats why you see people waving because I shouldnt say not a big deal, but it's not the end of the world so life goes on. Thats the British for you. GO LONDON!!!!!

pianoman11686
July 7th, 2005, 06:35 PM
Were the extra security measures being taken in New York noticable?

Yeah, twice as many police in the subways and train stations as usual. Lots of random stops near bridges and tunnels. My mom said her office building had extra police and security guards.

expose05
July 7th, 2005, 07:22 PM
My love and prayers go to the london people who died in this evil attack.

I wish apon a day that all the people and leaders of the world can come together and have finally have world peace.

Edward
July 7th, 2005, 09:02 PM
My love and prayers go to the london people who died in this evil attack.

I wish apon a day that all the people and leaders of the world can come together and have finally have world peace.

I think I am going to introduce a separate section on this forum - for praying for world peace.

pianoman11686
July 7th, 2005, 09:35 PM
Who's whitefire?

expose05
July 7th, 2005, 09:39 PM
Im saying i wish someday that these terroists attacks all over the world would stop. These attacks cause death and hurt the ones we love. I just wish all of us could settle our differences in a peaceful manner.

whitefire
July 7th, 2005, 09:49 PM
Hi everyone
This is my first post and today has been shocking but I am not at all surprised and have been waiting since 9-11 for something like this to happen. Watching it unfold was strange, as it was first thought it was a power surge on the subway that had caused the loud bangs reported. I had planned to go to Liverpool Street area today but went yesterday instead and I am so glad I changed my plans or I would have been caught up on the subway system.
I thank god that it was not on the scale of 9-11.....all day I have been expecting more incidents. I do not mean to trivialise it at all, as one person dead because of evil terrorists is one too many, but it could have been so much worse. Last I heard it was 37 dead and rising as there are hundreds injured, some critically. The Queen is visiting some of the injured tomorrow.
The emergency services excelled as they did in NYC on 9-11 and thankfully we have well rehearsed Major incident plans that worked well today. It seems also that the public helped each other out too with support and First Aid help. I hope your President is thinking long and hard about today's events.

I have to live in central London and use subway and buses everyday as do millions of others. It was very surreal today; sirens for Police and ambulances almost continuous at times, people walking as all transport stopped. I cannot stop thinking about all the famillies affected by this and want thank all of you for your good wishes and support....you are New Yorkers and fabulous people. I love your city and lived there for 2 years in the early 80s. It is 2.45am, so I am off for some sleep
Take care of each other
best wishes
whitefire

ZippyTheChimp
July 8th, 2005, 07:53 AM
July 8, 2005
If It's a Muslim Problem, It Needs a Muslim Solution

By THOMAS L. FRIEDMAN (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/opinion/editorialsandoped/oped/columnists/thomaslfriedman/index.html?inline=nyt-per)

Yesterday's bombings in downtown London are profoundly disturbing. In part, that is because a bombing in our mother country and closest ally, England, is almost like a bombing in our own country. In part, it's because one assault may have involved a suicide bomber, bringing this terrible jihadist weapon into the heart of a major Western capital. That would be deeply troubling because open societies depend on trust - on trusting that the person sitting next to you on the bus or subway is not wearing dynamite.

The attacks are also deeply disturbing because when jihadist bombers take their madness into the heart of our open societies, our societies are never again quite as open. Indeed, we all just lost a little freedom yesterday.

But maybe the most important aspect of the London bombings is this: When jihadist-style bombings happen in Riyadh, that is a Muslim-Muslim problem. That is a police problem for Saudi Arabia. But when Al-Qaeda-like bombings come to the London Underground, that becomes a civilizational problem. Every Muslim living in a Western society suddenly becomes a suspect, becomes a potential walking bomb. And when that happens, it means Western countries are going to be tempted to crack down even harder on their own Muslim populations.

That, too, is deeply troubling. The more Western societies - particularly the big European societies, which have much larger Muslim populations than America - look on their own Muslims with suspicion, the more internal tensions this creates, and the more alienated their already alienated Muslim youth become. This is exactly what Osama bin Laden dreamed of with 9/11: to create a great gulf between the Muslim world and the globalizing West.

So this is a critical moment. We must do all we can to limit the civilizational fallout from this bombing. But this is not going to be easy. Why? Because unlike after 9/11, there is no obvious, easy target to retaliate against for bombings like those in London. There are no obvious terrorist headquarters and training camps in Afghanistan that we can hit with cruise missiles. The Al Qaeda threat has metastasized and become franchised. It is no longer vertical, something that we can punch in the face. It is now horizontal, flat and widely distributed, operating through the Internet and tiny cells.

Because there is no obvious target to retaliate against, and because there are not enough police to police every opening in an open society, either the Muslim world begins to really restrain, inhibit and denounce its own extremists - if it turns out that they are behind the London bombings - or the West is going to do it for them. And the West will do it in a rough, crude way - by simply shutting them out, denying them visas and making every Muslim in its midst guilty until proven innocent.

And because I think that would be a disaster, it is essential that the Muslim world wake up to the fact that it has a jihadist death cult in its midst. If it does not fight that death cult, that cancer, within its own body politic, it is going to infect Muslim-Western relations everywhere. Only the Muslim world can root out that death cult. It takes a village.

What do I mean? I mean that the greatest restraint on human behavior is never a policeman or a border guard. The greatest restraint on human behavior is what a culture and a religion deem shameful. It is what the village and its religious and political elders say is wrong or not allowed. Many people said Palestinian suicide bombing was the spontaneous reaction of frustrated Palestinian youth. But when Palestinians decided that it was in their interest to have a cease-fire with Israel, those bombings stopped cold. The village said enough was enough.

The Muslim village has been derelict in condemning the madness of jihadist attacks. When Salman Rushdie wrote a controversial novel involving the prophet Muhammad, he was sentenced to death by the leader of Iran. To this day - to this day - no major Muslim cleric or religious body has ever issued a fatwa condemning Osama bin Laden.

Some Muslim leaders have taken up this challenge. This past week in Jordan, King Abdullah II hosted an impressive conference in Amman for moderate Muslim thinkers and clerics who want to take back their faith from those who have tried to hijack it. But this has to go further and wider.

The double-decker buses of London and the subways of Paris, as well as the covered markets of Riyadh, Bali and Cairo, will never be secure as long as the Muslim village and elders do not take on, delegitimize, condemn and isolate the extremists in their midst.



Copyright 2005 (http://www.nytimes.com/ref/membercenter/help/copyright.html) The New York Times Company (http://www.nytco.com/)

nick-taylor
July 8th, 2005, 10:01 AM
I commuted into London Liverpool Street Station just when the bomb went off in the tunnels under the station. The tough upper lip spirit us Brits have and will continue to see us through such acts.


This is something I've said elsewhere:

I look at it like this: London survived and defeated the numerous plagues, the Great Fire of 1666, the Luftwaffe during the Blitz of WW2 and the IRA. London will stand up to whoever thinks they might take a pot shot at it and they have picked on the wrong city to start a fight with because they will lose.


Business as usual.

BrooklynRider
July 8th, 2005, 10:05 AM
FROM MEDIA MATTERS

Fox News' Brian Kilmeade: London terror attack near G8 summit "works to ... Western world's advantage, for people to experience something like this together"

The following exchange between Fox News host Brian Kilmeade and Fox News business contributor and substitute host Stuart Varney occurred during breaking news coverage of the attacks on London subways and buses on the July 7 edition of Fox News' Fox & Friends:

KILMEADE: And he [British Prime Minister Tony Blair] made the statement, clearly shaken, but clearly determined. This is his second address in the last hour. First to the people of London, and now at the G8 summit, where their topic Number 1 --believe it or not-- was global warming, the second was African aid. And that was the first time since 9-11 when they should know, and they do know now, that terrorism should be Number 1. But it's important for them all to be together. I think that works to our advantage, in the Western world's advantage, for people to experience something like this together, just 500 miles from where the attacks have happened.

VARNEY: It puts the Number 1 issue right back on the front burner right at the point where all these world leaders are meeting. It takes global warming off the front burner. It takes African aid off the front burner. It sticks terrorism and the fight on the war on terror, right up front all over again.

KILMEADE: Yeah.

— N.C.

Posted to the web on Thursday July 7, 2005 at 2:07 PM EST

TLOZ Link5
July 8th, 2005, 11:46 AM
I commuted into London Liverpool Street Station just when the bomb went off in the tunnels under the station. The tough upper lip spirit us Brits have and will continue to see us through such acts.


This is something I've said elsewhere:

I look at it like this: London survived and defeated the numerous plagues, the Great Fire of 1666, the Luftwaffe during the Blitz of WW2 and the IRA. London will stand up to whoever thinks they might take a pot shot at it and they have picked on the wrong city to start a fight with because they will lose.


Business as usual.


Relieved to know you're okay, Nick.

My family has friends in London, one of whom is a schoolteacher who works a minute away from King's Cross. Had the attack happened today, she would have been in the Underground en route to a class trip with 30 of her students in tow.

TomAuch
July 8th, 2005, 03:58 PM
I'm glad that British members of this site are ok. I'm glad that the casualties were low (only 37 people lat time I heard.)

czsz
July 8th, 2005, 05:17 PM
50+ now. Bodies still being pulled from the Tube.

NY_Yankees_1979
July 8th, 2005, 05:33 PM
I hope that we bring these terriorest to justice. What happened in London yesterday makes you sick to your stomach.

pianoman11686
July 8th, 2005, 05:47 PM
Well, at least one of the terrorists participating in the bombings won't be brought to justice. I heard the bomb that blew up the double decker bus was detonated when still in the possession of a terrorist. They're not sure if it was a suicide attack, as some people reported seeing the guy fumbling with the bag before it exploded.

NY_Yankees_1979
July 8th, 2005, 05:51 PM
Well, at least one of the terrorists participating in the bombings won't be brought to justice. I heard the bomb that blew up the double decker bus was detonated when still in the possession of a terrorist. They're not sure if it was a suicide attack, as some people reported seeing the guy fumbling with the bag before it exploded. Wow that is sad, what about the bombing in the subway?

NY_Yankees_1979
July 8th, 2005, 05:58 PM
It's hard to determine.

pianoman11686
July 8th, 2005, 06:06 PM
Yes it's very likely that the bus bomb was meant for another subway. The investigation of the bus has the best chance of giving authorities more information on who carried out the bombings, if they can only identify the remains of the "fumbling terrorist."

pianoman11686
July 8th, 2005, 06:59 PM
Well, the group "Al-Qaeda in Europe" did claim responsibility for the attack on their website, and they're a regional off shoot of Bin Laden's organization, or so I'm led to believe.

pianoman11686
July 8th, 2005, 07:41 PM
Yeah, but chances are he wouldn't know that Al-Qaeda was planning to send out some of its people in the interest of exploding pipe bombs on subways halfway around the world.

lofter1
July 8th, 2005, 10:13 PM
Yeah, but chances are he wouldn't know that Al-Qaeda was planning to send out some of its people in the interest of exploding pipe bombs on subways halfway around the world.

According to news reports on CNN, the Al-Qaeda in Europe claim is questionable (apparently the most accurate translation of the web-posted communique following the London attacks reveals many discrepancies from prior Al-Qaeda post-bombing notices, thus raising the possibility that whoever is claiming responsibility for the London attacks could be far removed from Al-Qaeda).

Anyone can try to claim responsibility for being the bomber after an attack -- if you make the claim later then no prior knowledge is required.

The sad and amazing thing is that, next to the US, England has the broadest "intelligence" anti-terrorism network -- and still something as big as this can happen right under their noses.

And while the US / Allies continue to claim that the insurgents / terrorists are in the "last throes" those groups are still managing to inflict great harm on a fairly regular basis.

This has no end in sight...

TLOZ Link5
July 9th, 2005, 04:39 PM
Some people speculate that the bomb on the bus was being transported to the subway.

I guess that makes sense. I read in the newspaper today that witnesses on the No. 30 bus said that they saw a nervous-looking man on the upper level fumbling with a bag before the detonation. Since some preliminary reports have speculated that the bombs had timed detonators, it's possible that the Tavistock Square bomber was running late, per se.

ZippyTheChimp
July 10th, 2005, 05:24 AM
July 10, 2005
For a Decade, London Thrived as a Busy Crossroads of Terror

By ELAINE SCIOLINO (http://query.nytimes.com/search/query?ppds=bylL&v1=ELAINE SCIOLINO&fdq=19960101&td=sysdate&sort=newest&ac=ELAINE SCIOLINO&inline=nyt-per)
and DON VAN NATTA Jr.

LONDON, July 9 - Long before bombings ripped through London on Thursday, Britain had become a breeding ground for hate, fed by a militant version of Islam.

For two years, extremists like Sheik Omar Bakri Mohammed, a 47-year-old Syrian-born cleric, have played to ever-larger crowds, calling for holy war against Britain and exhorting young Muslim men to join the insurgency in Iraq. In a newspaper interview in April 2004, he warned that "a very well-organized" London-based group, Al Qaeda Europe, was "on the verge of launching a big operation" here.

In a sermon attended by more than 500 people in a central London meeting hall last December, Sheik Omar vowed that if Western governments did not change their policies, Muslims would give them "a 9/11, day after day after day."

If London became a magnet for fiery preachers, it also became a destination for men willing to carry out their threats. For a decade, the city has been a crossroads for would-be terrorists who used it as a home base, where they could raise money, recruit members and draw inspiration from the militant messages.

Among them were terrorists involved in attacks in Madrid, Casablanca, Saudi Arabia, Israel and in the Sept. 11 plot. Zacarias Moussaoui, the only man charged in the United States in the 9/11 attacks, and Richard C. Reid, the convicted shoe-bomber, both prayed at the Finsbury Park mosque in north London. The mosque's former leader, Abu Hamza al-Masri openly preached violence for years before the authorities arrested him in April 2004.

Although Britain has passed a series of antiterrorist and immigration laws and made nearly 800 arrests since Sept. 11, 2001, critics have charged that its deep tradition of civil liberties and protection of political activists have made the country a haven for terrorists. The British government has drawn particular criticism from other countries over its refusal to extradite terrorism suspects.

For years, there was a widely held belief that Britain's tolerance helped stave off any Islamic attacks at home. But the anger of London's militant clerics turned on Britain after it offered unwavering support for the American-led invasion of Iraq. On Thursday morning, an attack long foreseen by worried counterterrorism officials became a reality.

"The terrorists have come home," said a senior intelligence official based in Europe, who works often with British officials. "It is payback time for a policy that was, in my opinion, an irresponsible policy of the British government to allow these networks to flourish inside Britain."

Those policies have been a matter of intense debate within the government, with the courts, the Blair government and members of Parliament frequently opposing one another.

For example, when the Parliament considered a bill in March that would have allowed the government to impose tough controls on terror suspects - like house arrests, curfews and electronic tagging - some legislators objected, saying it would erode civil liberties. "It does not secure the nation," William Cash, of the House of Commons, said of the bill. "It is liable to create further trouble and dissension among those whom we are seeking to control - the terrorists." The measure is still pending.



Investigators examining Thursday's attacks, which left at least 49 dead and 700 injured, are pursuing a theory that the bombers were part of a homegrown sleeper cell, which may or may not have had foreign support for the bomb-making phase of the operation.

If that theory proves true, it would reflect the transformation of the terror threat around Europe. With much of Al Qaeda's hierarchy either captured or killed, a new, more nimble terrorist force has emerged on the continent, comprising mostly semiautonomous, Qaeda-inspired local groups that are believed to be operating in France, Switzerland, Spain, Italy and other countries.

"Terrorists are not strangers, foreigners," said Bruno Lemaire, adviser to Prime Minister Dominique de Villepin of France. "They're insiders, well integrated inside the country."

Another senior intelligence official based in Europe said the fear was that there would be additional attacks in other European cities by homegrown sleeper cells inspired by Al Qaeda and by the attacks in Casablanca, Madrid and now London.

"This is exactly what we are going to witness in Europe: most of the attacks will be carried out by local groups, the people who have been here for a long time, well integrated into the fabric of society," the official said.

Well before Thursday's bombings, British officials predicted a terrorist attack in their country. In a speech in October 2003, Eliza Manningham-Buller, the director general of MI5, Britain's domestic intelligence agency, said she saw "no prospect of a significant reduction in the threat posed to the U.K. and its interests from Islamist terrorism over the next five years, and I fear for a considerable number of years thereafter."

Britain's challenge to detect militants on its soil is particularly difficult.

Counterterrorism officials estimate that 10,000 to 15,000 Muslims living in Britain are supporters of Al Qaeda. Among that number, officials believe that as many as 600 men were trained in camps connected with Al Qaeda in Afghanistan and elsewhere.

British investigators say that identifying Islamic militants among the two million Muslims living here, about 4 percent of the population, is especially hard. The Muslim community here is the most diverse of any in Europe in terms of ethnic origins, culture, history, language, politics and class. More than 60 percent of the community comes not from North African or Gulf Arab countries, but from countries like Pakistan, India and Bangladesh.

Before Sept. 11, 2001, British officials monitored radical Islamists but generally stopped short of arresting or extraditing them. After Sept. 11, the government passed legislation that allowed indefinite detention of terrorism suspects. But last year, it was overturned by Britain's highest court, the Law Lords, as a violation of human rights law.

Complicating Britain's antiterrorism strategy is its refusal or delays of requests for extradition of suspects by some allies, including the United States, France, Spain and Morocco.

Moroccan authorities, for example, are seeking the return of Mohammed el-Guerbozi, a battle-hardened veteran of Afghanistan who they say planned the May 2003 attacks in Casablanca, which killed 45 people. He has also been identified as a founder of the Moroccan Combatant Islamic Group, cited by the United Nations as a terrorist network connected to Al Qaeda. An operative in that group, Noureddine Nifa, told investigators that the organization had sleeper cells prepared to mount synchronized bombings in Britain, France, Italy, Belgium and Canada. In an interview last year, Gen. Hamidou Laanigri, Morocco's chief of security, said Osama bin Laden authorized Mr. Guerbozi to open a training camp for Moroccans in Afghanistan in the beginning of 2001. Last December, Mr. Guerbozi was convicted in absentia in Morocco for his involvement in the Casablanca attacks and sentenced to 20 years.

But the British government has no extradition treaty with Morocco and has refused to extradite Mr. Guerbozi, a father of six who lives in a rundown apartment in north London. British officials say there is not enough evidence to arrest him, General Laanigri said.

Similarly, Baltasar Garzón, a Spanish investigating magistrate, has requested extradition of Abu Qatada, a radical Muslim cleric living in Britain who received political refugee status in the early 1990's. A Palestinian with Jordanian nationality, Mr. Qatada is described in court documents as the spiritual leader of Al Qaeda in Europe. Although Mr. Qatada was put under house arrest in 2002 and then arrested, he was freed in March and put into an observation program.

He is also wanted in Jordan, where he has been given a 15-year prison sentence in absentia for his connection to bomb attacks during 1998.

For 10 years, France has been fighting for the extradition of Rachid Ramda, a 35-year-old Algerian, over his suspected role in a bombing in Paris in 1995 staged by Algeria's militant Armed Islamic Group. Much to the irritation of the French, three years ago, Britain's High Court blocked a Home Office order to hand him over, citing allegations that his co-defendants gave testimony under torture by the French.

Last week, Mr. Clarke, the home secretary, approved the extradition order, but Mr. Ramda is appealing.

Another prime terrorism suspect who operated in London for years is Mustafa Setmarian Nasar, the suspected mastermind of the Madrid bombings. Although the authorities now cannot find him, he is believed to have visited Britain often and lived here openly from 1995 to 1998.

Officials believe he tried to organize his own extremist group before Sept. 11, but afterward officials say he pledged loyalty to Osama bin Laden. He lived in north London and was the editor of a militant Islamist magazine, Al Ansar, which is published here, distributed at some mosques in Western Europe and closely monitored by British security officials.

Across Britain since Sept. 11, 2001, nearly 800 people have been arrested under the Terrorism Act of 2000, according to recent police records. Of that number, 121 were charged with terrorism related crimes, but only 21 people have been convicted.

In one of the biggest antiterrorism cases made here, Scotland Yard arrested 12 men and charged them with making traces of the poison ricin inside an apartment in Wood Green, in north London, in January 2003. But 11 of the 12 men were acquitted without trial based on a lack of evidence.

Since Thursday's attacks, there have been calls for a crackdown on radical Muslims, including some from Britain's Muslim leaders.

"As far as I am concerned these people are not British," said Lord Nizar Ahmed, one of the few Muslims in the House of Lords. "They are foreign ideological preachers of hate who have been threatening our national security and encouraging young people into militancy. They should be put away and sent back to their countries."

He added, "They created a whole new breeding ground for recruitment to radicalism."

Even last week's bombings did little to curtail the rhetoric of some of the most radical leaders, who criticized Prime Minister Tony Blair for saying that the bombings appeared to be the work of Islamic terrorists.

"This shows me that he is an enemy of Islam," Abu Abdullah, a self-appointed preacher and the spokesman for the radical group Supporters of Shariah, said in an interview on Friday, adding, "Sometimes when you see how people speak, it shows you who your enemies are."

Mr. Abdullah declared that those British citizens who re-elected Mr. Blair "have blood on their hands" because British soldiers are killing Muslims. He also said that the British government, not Muslims, "have their hands" in the bombings, explaining, "They want to go on with their fight against Islam."

Imran Waheed, a spokesman for a radical British-based group, Hizb ut Tahrir, which is allowed to function here but is banned in Germany and much of the Muslim world, said: "When Westerners get killed, the world cries. But if Muslims get killed in Iraq or Afghanistan, it's the smallest of news. I will condemn what happened in London only after there is the promise from Western leaders to condemn what they have done in Falluja and other parts of Iraq and in Afghanistan."

So far, there appears to be little effort to restrain outspoken clerics, including prominent extremists like Sheik Omar, who has reportedly been under investigation by Scotland Yard.

Sheik Omar, who remains free, is an example of the double-edged policies in Britain. He is a political refugee who was given asylum 19 years ago and is supported by public assistance. Asked in an interview in May how he felt about being barred from obtaining British citizenship, he replied, "I don't want to become a citizen of hell."

Information Sought on British Man

By The New York Times

LONDON, July 8 - British law enforcement officials investigating the terrorist attacks here asked their counterparts in Germany and Belgium for information about a London man who is accused by the Moroccan government of engineering the May 2003 terrorist attacks in Casablanca, two officials said Saturday.

The man, Mohammed el-Guerbozi, 48, a British citizen who was born in Morocco, has lived in London for nearly two decades.

At a news conference, Scotland Yard officials denied that Mr. Guerbozi was a suspect in the bombing attacks on Thursday. But on Saturday night, senior British officials said that for caution's sake, they had asked several countries in Europe for information about Mr. Guerbozi and his contacts.

Several news organizations in recent days reported that Mr. Guerbozi had fled London on Thursday. But in a telephone interview Saturday night, he said he was still in London and denied any involvement in the London bombings.

"Nothing is true," said Mr. Guerbozi. "What they said about me after the Madrid bombings, they are saying it again and the media are writing the same things. It is not true. Now they say that I fled from London, but this is not true. I'm here."

Mr. Guerbozi said he offered to speak with the British police, but they did not accept his offer. "I'm not in the mountains and I'm not in the forest," he said. "I'm in hiding and the intelligence service and the police know where I am."

Souad Mekhennet contributed reporting from London for this article, and Tim Golden from New York.



Copyright 2005 (http://www.nytimes.com/ref/membercenter/help/copyright.html) The New York Times Company (http://www.nytco.com/)

Ninjahedge
July 11th, 2005, 09:30 AM
Sometimes it is easier to let these people meet from within your own country and watch who attends rather than to force them underground and not know who may be coming for you.

nick-taylor
July 12th, 2005, 05:43 AM
Sometimes it is easier to let these people meet from within your own country and watch who attends rather than to force them underground and not know who may be coming for you.Which is how 8 previous attacks on this scale have been averted (shooting down of 747's at Heathrow, ricin bombs, lorry bombs, etc...). These attacks are by a group totally unknown - perhaps foreign led which is a far harder intelligence task, but internal.

Like the guy (forget his name) with the claw for a hand, he and his friends at the Finsbury Park Mosque have connections and through these connections its possible to find new people that could actually be willing to carry out such acts.

Its unfortunate, but theres no point I think in worrying to much about it as it was going to happen, it has happened, they mucked up big-time and London lives on and evolves like it has for the last 2,000 years.


Hell on Sunday several hundred thousand people flocked to London......... what better way to show our noses back right at them!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/nol/shared/spl/hi/pop_ups/05/uk_wwii_commemorations/img/11.jpg

lofter1
July 12th, 2005, 11:07 PM
From the BBC...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/4676577.stm

London bombers 'were all British'

Detectives now believe the London bombings were carried out by four British-born men in what were possibly the country's first suicide attacks.

Security sources said it was likely at least three of the men, said to be of Pakistani descent, are dead, after belongings were found at the scenes.

The details emerged as explosives were found in Leeds and Luton after a series of raids. One man has been arrested.

The BBC's Frank Gardner said an expert may have offered the bombers guidance.

The security correspondent said the suspected bombers - one of whom is thought to have been as young as 19 - may have been helped by someone who would have left the country before the bombs went off.

Police revealed details of the breakthrough in their investigation into the attacks, which killed at least 52 people, on Tuesday.

It emerged that relatives of one of the men had reported him missing last Thursday morning.

On Monday night, police had viewed CCTV footage of four suspects together at London King's Cross last Thursday. They all had rucksacks and were seen just 20 minutes before the three Tube bombs started going off at 0851 BST. A bus bomb went off in Tavistock Square at 0947 BST.

Three of the men had travelled to Luton from Leeds by train, before catching a Thameslink train to London. They had been joined at Luton by a fourth man who had driven to the Bedfordshire town.

ZippyTheChimp
July 14th, 2005, 08:59 AM
Britain Only Now Sees It's Harbored Terrorist Cells


London Letter

BY DANIEL JOHNSON
July 14, 2005
URL: http://www.nysun.com/article/16991

Britain is in shock. Not just from the traumatic and grudging realization last Thursday that the country is at war, but from the discovery that the attack on London was the work of four suicide bombers, all of them young British Muslims. Readers of this column will not have been surprised by this realization, but it is only just dawning on the great British public that it has unwittingly harbored a terrorist cell in its midst, and that more "sleepers" may emerge to destroy us at any moment.

The uncanny dread that this knowledge engenders cannot be allayed by assurances from the authorities or from Muslim leaders that the attack on London had nothing to do with Islam. Such rhetoric has a hollow ring, now that we know the identities of the terrorists.

For these were ordinary young Muslims, born in Yorkshire to families who migrated from Pakistan a generation ago. One family ran a fish-and-chip take-away, another a grocery. Their fathers were pillars of the Leeds Muslim community. And yet these respectable families were incubating monsters who set off with backpacks full of explosives to kill and maim as many of their fellow countrymen as possible.

One of the suicide bombers, Hasib Hussain, aged 18, had recently returned from a pilgrimage to Mecca, having become a devout Muslim two years ago and grown a beard. According to friends," he never came across as any sort of fanatic." Shahzad Tanweer, 22, was a cricketer, who apparently told friends that he disapproved of the attacks on America of September 11, 2001. A third bomber, Mohammed Sidique Khan, was married and had become a father eight months ago. A fourth man, whose remains are still being identified in the grisly forensic operation in the subway deep below King's Cross station, probably came from a similar background.

As long as the visible face of the Islamist threat in Britain was the one-eyed, hook-handed imam of Finsbury Park mosque, Abu Hamza, whom American authorities have accused of setting up a terrorist training camp in Oregon, the public could at least feel that they knew their enemy. The imam, who lived a few doors away from me in our quiet West London street until his arrest last year, looked and sounded like a demagogic fundamentalist. His trial on terrorism charges has only just begun, and it is a scandal that it took so many years to assemble a case against him, but he was too identifiable ever to blend into the crowd.

That is not true of the Leeds suicide bombers. None of them obviously fitted the stereotype of the religious and political fanatic. If these young men could suddenly turn on their neighbors and kill them, why should those neighbors trust other young Muslims? It is hard to believe that none of their friends and relations suspected anything, but if they genuinely did not, then the implications are even more alarming.

There are up to 3 million Muslims living in Britain, the great majority of whom are British citizens. If, as the security services believe, about 3,000 of them have been recruited and trained by Al Qaeda, then one in a thousand Muslims is at least a potential terrorist. But at the last general election the Muslim community voted en bloc against the Blair government, on account of its support for the Iraq war and the Bush administration. Opinion polls confirm that a large proportion of Muslims, perhaps as many as half, have at least some sympathy with terror attacks against America and Israel.

So the one-in-a-thousand who is prepared to die for Islam can count on a much larger number who at the very least will not lift a finger to stop him. What is the government going to do about them?

It doesn't trust us enough to tell us the truth. We Londoners have been patting ourselves on the back about the lack of panic last Thursday, but it is now clear that the transport chiefs deliberately lied to us, claiming that a "power surge" had obliged them to close down the Underground, because they did not trust us not to panic if they admitted that we were under terrorist assault. Next time, nobody will believe such announcements.

It is also becoming clear that the government thought the British public would turn on their Muslim neighbors if it were told the truth. The police themselves have contributed to the myth that the real problem now facing us is not Islam, but Islamophobia. There have been a handful of incidents since last Thursday, but certainly nothing that could be called a backlash.

Yet the desire to prove that London's Metropolitan Police is not Islamophobic has created grotesque examples of political correctness. Scotland Yard is contributing $15,000 of taxpayers' money to enable a Swiss Islamist academic who is a recognized apologist for terrorism, Tariq Ramadan, to address a conference of young Muslims in London next month, despite knowing full well that Mr. Ramadan had been banned from America.

The result of this bad faith between the government and the governed is quite serious. Now that at last we know who and what we are up against, we are no longer sure that the authorities are on our side. The police protect Islam - I saw two constables standing guard outside the local mosque yesterday morning - but they are powerless to protect the rest of society against the Islamists. Exhorted to be vigilant, people fear accusations of Islamophobia if they voice their suspicions. It is so much easier to blame the Iraq war or the Americans or the Israelis than to face the horrific truth: that we now have a fifth column, nameless, faceless, and utterly ruthless, dedicated to transforming Britain into an Islamic republic.

Ninjahedge
July 18th, 2005, 11:04 AM
Yeah, kill all the muslims because they could be sleeper cells.

After all, if the one kid was a cricket player and said that he did not approve of the 9-11 attack 4 years ago, that must mean that he is safe.

:p



"He was such a nice boy" is a phrase you hear a lot, no matter WHAT the religion.

Ninjahedge
July 21st, 2005, 01:27 PM
About the second bombing that happened a short time ago?

It takes a little while for people to hear this kind of thing L+O, especially at work. I only caught a snip of it on CNN when I went to the gym. I just heard a reporter with a british accent saying "again" and I put it together myself.

I hear there were 3 bombings, one on a bus, and that they were "smaller", less injured and th elike.

I wonder if this is the "real deal" or a copycat....

pianoman11686
July 21st, 2005, 01:35 PM
British Police Evacuate 3 Subway Stations After Explosions

By ALAN COWELL

Published: July 21, 2005

LONDON, July 21 - Just two weeks after a string of attacks on buses and subways in London that killed 56 people, the British police evacuated three subway stations in the city today after small explosions that sent commuters into a panic. But casualty numbers appeared to be low. The police said the Oval subway station in south London, Shepherd's Bush in the west and Warren Street in central London had been evacuated. There was also a small explosion on the No. 26 bus in the Hackney Road section that blew out the bus windows, police said.

Police with sniffer dogs took up positions outside some of the stations and set up cordons, while sirens blared from ambulances racing to the scene. Initial reports from witnesses said smoke had been seen at one station.

"There were four explosions, or attempts at explosions," Sir Ian Blair, the head of Scotland Yard, said.

At the moment the casualty numbers were low in the explosions, and it was still unclear what had happened, but the "bombs appeared to be smaller" than those detonated on July 7, he said.

He said the response to the incidents had closed the transport system, and he appealed to London residents to "stay where you are."

The city still appears to be on edge two weeks after the coordinated bombings on July 7 that killed 56 people. "Everyone was panicking and screaming," said one witness quoted on the British television station Sky News after the incidents today. Another witness described what he said sounded like champagne corks popping.

A male witness who did not identify himself told CNN: "I was in the carriage, reading my book, on the northbound train on the Victoria line. We smelled burning wires, and then suddenly, everyone started to panic and started running from one carriage to the next carriage. Everyone was panicking, making their way to the next carriage, screaming, leaving their shoes -- one lady left both of her shoes. There was no way you could get out of the carriage ... I just said my prayers and waited for it to happen."

There were no reports of any injuries on the bus that was traveling from Waterloo to Hackney in the east of city. The incident occurred in the Shoreditch area, an unidentified spokesman for the bus company said, according to Reuters. "The driver heard a bang he believed came from the upper desk of the bus," the spokesman said.

Britain has been grasping for ways to explain why four British Muslims rode into London aboard a commuter train with backpacks of explosives that detonated on three subway trains and a double-decker bus two weeks ago.

Sir Ian said that he was attending a high level security committee meeting today chaired by the British Prime Minister, Tony Blair, who was to speak publicly about the situation shortly.

At one station at Warren Street, a commuter interviewed by telephone on television said that there was chaos, with passengers evacuating and helping others up the stairs, although passengers did not know what exits to use amid the screaming and panic. "Lots of people were running into my carriage," the woman said, adding that someone then activated the passenger alarm in the car.

The witness said she smelled smoke but did not hear anything that might have been an explosion.

A British police officer, who declined to be named under police rules, said that at 12:38 p.m. an unidentified person threw a rucksack onto a northbound train and that some kind of explosion ensued. The officer said the person who threw the bag ran off and escaped capture by subway travelers.

The effects of the attacks on July 7 in London were also felt in the United States, with heightened security steps put into place in the days afterward. The New York City police departments had been putting officers on most trains during rush hours and they have also increased security generally in subway stations. There was no announcement of an increase in security this morning in the immediate aftermath of the London incidents.

Copyright 2005 The New York Times Company

pianoman11686
July 21st, 2005, 01:41 PM
About the second bombing that happened a short time ago?

It takes a little while for people to hear this kind of thing L+O, especially at work. I only caught a snip of it on CNN when I went to the gym. I just heard a reporter with a british accent saying "again" and I put it together myself.

I hear there were 3 bombings, one on a bus, and that they were "smaller", less injured and th elike.

I wonder if this is the "real deal" or a copycat....

The bombings were smaller, yes - but that was only because the main loads didn't detonate. They say the explosions were from the detonators only, and that the explosive material could have been too old to combust. In any case, these were attempts at making the kinds of explosions that took place two weeks ago.

Ninjahedge
July 21st, 2005, 01:41 PM
A British police officer, who declined to be named under police rules, said that at 12:38 p.m. an unidentified person threw a rucksack onto a northbound train and that some kind of explosion ensued. The officer said the person who threw the bag ran off and escaped capture by subway travelers.

Sounds like copycats.

ablarc
July 22nd, 2005, 09:08 PM
There was no evidence then and there isnt even any now, that any muslims did this, but he assumed some did.
Maybe it was the Quakers.

.

ZippyTheChimp
July 24th, 2005, 12:03 AM
July 24, 2005
Britain Says Man Killed by Police Had No Tie to Bombings

By ALAN COWELL (http://query.nytimes.com/search/query?ppds=bylL&v1=ALAN COWELL&fdq=19960101&td=sysdate&sort=newest&ac=ALAN COWELL&inline=nyt-per) and DON VAN NATTA Jr.
LONDON, July 23 - Scotland Yard admitted Saturday that a man police officers gunned down at point-blank range in front of horrified subway passengers on Friday had nothing to do with the investigation into the bombing attacks here.

The man was identified by police as Jean Charles de Menezes, a 27-year-old Brazilian, described by officers as an electrician on his way to work. "He was not connected to incidents in central London on 21st July, 2005, in which four explosive devices were partly detonated," a police statement said.

At the same time, the police said they had found a link between four attackers on July 7 and the men who tried to carry out carbon copy attacks July 21. The July 7 attacks killed the bombers and 52 others.

A flier in a backpack found with undetonated explosives on a London bus was for a whitewater rafting center at Bala, North Wales, where two of the July 7 bombers had been photographed just weeks before the attack, a police official said.

The police also said late Saturday that after the failed attacks on July 21, they found a mysterious package - possibly a fifth explosive device - in Little Wormwood Scrubs, northwest of London.

The explosive was "almost exactly the same" as ones in the failed attacks on that day, a police official said.

Of the fast-unfolding developments, the most overwhelming for many Londoners, was the police admission that an apparently innocent man had been gunned down in full public view - a killing that left the city even more rattled after a wave of attacks, alarms, scares and shootings that, in a brief three weeks has propelled London from the euphoria of the Live 8 concert in Hyde Park to a sense of embattled siege.

"For somebody to lose their life in such circumstances is a tragedy and one that the Metropolitan Police Service regrets," a police statement said, noting that the police had started a formal inquiry.

The admission by the police that it had killed a man not involved in the investigation revived and fueled an already tense debate over the arming of British police officers. It also came after a series of police misstatements since July 7 when the first bombers struck. [Page 10.]

The shooting shocked many of the country's 1.6 million Muslims, already alarmed by a publicly acknowledged shoot-to-kill policy directed against suspected suicide bombers. And it has dealt a major setback to the police inquiry into suspected terrorist cells in London.

"This really is an appalling set of circumstances," said John O'Connor, a former police commander. "The consequences are quite horrible." Azzam Tamimi, head of the Muslim Association of Britain, said: "This is very frightening. People will be afraid to walk the streets, or go on the tube, or carry anything in their hands."

A cousin of the dead man, interviewed on Brazil's leading television network, identified him as João Alves Menezes and said he was an electrician who had been working in England for more than three years. The cousin, Alex Pereira Alves, identified Mr. Menezes' body in London, the network said.

Mr. Menezes was from the interior state of Minas Gerais, home of the bulk of migrants from Brazil to the United States and Europe and had been in Britain legally, Mr. Alves said. He would have been on his way to work that morning, he said, and had no reason to flee the police.

"How could they have done such a thing as to kill him from behind?" Mr. Alves told the Globo Television Network. "How could they have confused and killed a light-skinned person who had no resemblance at all to an Asian?"

Another cousin, Aleide Menezes, said in an interview with Brazil's national radio network that Mr. Menezes understood English well and would have understood the officer's instructions. Other relatives, in television and newspaper interviews, said the family was Roman Catholic and that Mr. Menezes had nothing to do with Islam.

In an official statement issued late Saturday, the Brazilian government said it was "shocked and perplexed" by the killing and was waiting for an explanation.

The shooting occurred the day after the copycat attackers tried to bomb three other subway trains and a bus, but their bombs failed to explode. Plainclothes police officers staking out an apartment followed a man who emerged from it, then chased him into the Stockwell subway station and onto a train. The man tripped, and one of the officers in pursuit fired five rounds.

After the shooting, Sir Ian Blair, the police commissioner, said the man was "directly linked to the ongoing and expanding antiterrorist operation," and the police issued images from closed-circuit cameras of four suspects in the failed attacks. They said the man they shot may not have been one of the four, but he was still being sought in their inquiry.

A Friday statement said that the man's "clothing and his behavior at the station added to their suspicions," apparently referring to reports that the man was wearing a bulky jacket on a summer day.

Through most of Saturday, the police refused to give any further details. Then, in the late afternoon, Scotland Yard issued its statement admitting the "mistake." So far in the investigation, the police have detained two suspects. It was not clear whether those men were among the four caught on security cameras.

In the latest alarm on Saturday, police cordoned off an area in north-west London, and Peter Clarke, head of London's Anti-Terrorist police, said that a package that was discovered appeared "to have been left in the bushes, rather than hidden."

"Naturally this is a matter of concern," he added.

The link between the two bombing teams, at the white water rafting center in north Wales, is the latest in a series of connections made by detectives since Thursday. They have found that the bombs for both teams were made of the same homemade material, were roughly the same size and were carried in similar backpacks, officials said.

Asked if Prime Minister Tony Blair would address the killing of Mr. Menezes, a spokeswoman said Mr. Blair was "kept updated on all developments, but this is a matter for the Metropolitan Police. We have nothing to add." But with the nation jittery after the attacks and the shooting, Mr. Blair was expected to confront political passions likely to be inflamed by what his critics are depicting as excesses of a war on terrorism that have eroded freedoms.

"This policy is another overreaction of the government and police," said Ajmal Masroor, a spokesman for the Islamic Society of Britain.

Both the government and the police have sought the support of British Muslims to assist in the inquiry.

"This will turn people against the police, and this is not good," said Mr. Tamimi, of the Muslim Association. "We want that people stay beside the police. We need to convince the people to cooperate."

Civil rights groups also seemed likely to demand new curbs on the police at precisely the moment officers have been given much freer hand to pursue the investigation.

"No one should rush to judgment in any case of this kind, especially at a time of heightened tension," said Shami Chakrabarti, director of Liberty, a civil and human rights group. She acknowledged, however, that officers faced "knife-edged, split-second decisions often made in times of great danger."

In a country used to unarmed police officers, the shooting seemed to be a stark turning point - one that seemed even more portentous after the police admission on Saturday.

The killing revived a never-resolved debate among the public and the police over the arming of officers. In one recent case, officers faced trial after shooting a man carrying a wooden table leg in the mistaken belief that he was armed.

Some police officers authorized to carry weapons now say they prefer not to because of the risk of prosecution if they make mistakes.

Normally British police officers are under orders to give ample warming and, if they have no choice but to open fire, to aim to wound. However, according to London's mayor, Ken Livingstone, that has given way to a shoot-to-kill policy in some circumstances.

"If you are dealing with someone who might be a suicide bomber, if they remain conscious they could trigger plastic explosives or whatever device is on them. And therefore overwhelmingly in these circumstances it is going to be a shoot-to-kill policy," he said after the shooting Friday, but before the acknowledgment by the police that the dead man was not part of the inquiry.

Police guidelines for dealing with suspected suicide bombers recommend shooting at the head rather than the body in case the suspect is carrying explosives.

Except in Northern Ireland, at airports and nuclear facilities, British police officers are not routinely armed. A small percentage of officers - roughly 7 percent in London - have weapons training, which is also required for the use of Taser stun guns, available to nearly all police forces. As routine weapons, officers carry batons and tear-gas-like spray. Of more than 30,000 officers in London, around 2,000 are authorized to carry weapons, a Scotland Yard spokesman said, speaking anonymously under police rules.

Even before Saturday's police statement, Britons had been bracing to see how their vaunted sense of fair play and civil rights survives the onslaught by attackers and the measures to combat it.

"Many civil liberties will have to be infringed to impose the requirement on all communities, including Britain's Muslims, to destroy the terrorists before they destroy us," the author Tom Bower wrote in The Daily Mail on Saturday.

The country's Muslim minority has expressed vulnerability to a backlash since it was announced that the July 7 bombers were all Muslims, three of them British-born descendants of Pakistani immigrants in the northern city of Leeds. Groups linked to Al Qaeda have claimed responsibility for both sets of attacks.

The Islamic Human Rights Commission said it feared that "innocent people may lose their lives due to the new shoot-to-kill policy of the Metropolitan Police."

The rash of attacks, incidents, alarms and arrests has rocked a city that, even during the days of I.R.A. attacks, was used to being warned in advance about bombings. Indeed, after several years of an I.R.A. truce in mainland Britain, the howl of police sirens, the popping of gunfire and the thud of explosives has ended a mood of complacency underpinned by Britain's relative prosperity.

Now, after the bombings on July 7, the attempts on July 21, and the shooting incident, the city seems far less sure of itself.

"The realization that the events of July 7 were not an isolated conspiracy has changed the way that we travel on the city's public transport system, probably forever," Damian Whitworth wrote in The Times of London, recounting how "suspicion, fear and panic spread like a virus" through the subways.

The Independent said, "There seems to be a state of denial about the pervasive sense of fear that exists in London at the moment."

At the same time, British authorities are facing unusually frank criticism from officials and leaders of some Muslim states.

Prince Turki al-Faisal, the Saudi ambassador, said in a radio interview on Friday that it was a "true criticism" to say Britain had offered sanctuary too easily. "Allowing them to go on using the hospitality and the generosity of the British people to emanate from here such calls for killing and such I think is wrong."

President Pervez Musharraf of Pakistan also noted that some Islamic groups banned in Pakistan "operate with impunity" in Britain.

Reporting for this article was contributed by Stephen Grey, Souad Mekhennet and Hélène Fouquet in London, William K. Rashbaum in New York and Larry Rohter in Rio de Janeiro.





Copyright 2005 (http://www.nytimes.com/ref/membercenter/help/copyright.html) The New York Times Company (http://www.nytco.com/)

Ninjahedge
July 25th, 2005, 10:49 AM
I got about 3/4 of the way through that... The NYT sure tries to cover all angles, doesn't it?


I think this is a shame, but one thing is good:

They admitted to the mistake instead of trying to drop a gun on the "suspect".

Aside from that, this is a tough one. Did the guy try to run? Was the only crime he committed being in the wrong place and looking too scared when a cop pulled a gun on him?

It is a shame that 50 people out of millions in the city are killed, and that may serve to change the lives of all those that were not hit.

ZippyTheChimp
August 1st, 2005, 06:53 AM
August 1, 2005
Europe Meets the New Face of Terrorism

By ELAINE SCIOLINO (http://query.nytimes.com/search/query?ppds=bylL&v1=ELAINE SCIOLINO&fdq=19960101&td=sysdate&sort=newest&ac=ELAINE SCIOLINO&inline=nyt-per)

LONDON, July 31 - One attack was deadly, the other was not. But taken together, the two terrorist strikes that hit London in July highlight a new, more ominous face of terrorism in Europe.

It transcends ethnic lines and national causes, blends ideological fervor with common criminality and is rooted to a large extent inside the target country. Shifting assumptions about the nature of the terrorist threat, it also complicates efforts to devise strategies to combat it.

Although some senior intelligence and law enforcement officials said they began to recognize the mutating threat at the time of the train bombings in Madrid in March 2004, the London bombings have reinforced the lesson that, by all accounts, the centrally controlled Al Qaeda of 9/11 is no more.

"We are seeing a terrorist threat that keeps changing," said Pierre de Bousquet, the director of France's domestic intelligence service, known as the D.S.T., in an interview in Paris. "Often the groups are not homogeneous, but a variety of blends."

"Hard-core Islamists are mixing with petty criminals," he added. "People of different backgrounds and nationalities are working together. Some are European-born or have dual nationalities that make it easier for them to travel. The networks are much less structured than we used to believe. Maybe it's the mosque that brings them together, maybe it's prison, maybe it's the neighborhood. And that makes it much more difficult to identify them and uproot them."

In the case of the London attacks of July 7 that left 56 people dead, including the four bombers, three of the attackers were ethnic Pakistanis born in Britain, the fourth a British citizen and convert to Islam born in Jamaica.

The strike that followed two weeks later, in which the four bombs did not explode, was carried out by an intriguing crew that the police say included a British resident born in Somalia, an Ethiopian who apparently posed as a Somali refugee to gain legal residency in Britain and a British citizen born in Eritrea who acquaintances say was radicalized in prison. The nationality and legal status of the fourth would-be bomber has not been disclosed.

The police still say they have not found conclusive evidence linking the two attacks, although the explosives used in both cases, as well as other elements of the episodes, appear to be similar.

None of those identified so far as being involved in the two attacks are believed to have been a battle-hardened veteran of Chechnya or Iraq, and most of them are too young to have been trained in Qaeda camps in Afghanistan, which were destroyed in 2001. They may have learned their bomb-making techniques and terrorist strategies at home, investigators and intelligence officials say, although the officials caution that they do not yet know the extent of the support network behind the attacks or whether either involved a foreign mastermind.

Britain's most senior counterterrorism official himself anticipated what was happening over a year ago. In a little-noticed speech to a conference in Florence in June 2004, Peter Clarke, the counterterrorism chief of Britain's police force, pointed out "the complete change, the recalibration" that Britain was making in investigating the new threat.

The shifting nature of the threat was made apparent early last year with Operation Crevice, one of Britain's largest counterterrorism operations ever, Mr. Clarke said. Seven hundred officers thwarted what they believed was a plot to construct a large bomb intended for a site somewhere in London. In more than two dozen police raids, more than half a ton of ammonium nitrate fertilizer, which can be used in making bombs, was seized and eight ethnic Pakistani British citizens were arrested.

"Before this there was the perception that the international terrorist threat was something that came from abroad," Mr. Clarke said in the speech. "It came from the Maghreb. It came from the Middle East. It came from Chechnya. It came from Afghanistan. These individuals, however, were all British citizens."

"The parameters," he said, "have changed completely."

"If we take one or two leaders away," he added, "very quickly they are replaced and the network is reformed."

He called the homegrown trend "deeply worrying." Equally worrying, he added, was that the "key conspirator" in the plot revealed by Operation Crevice was only 22 years old, and that others were 18 and 19.

A confidential British government assessment of the emerging threat from young British Muslim radicals, prepared last year for Prime Minister Tony Blair, concludes that poverty is not an indication of radicalism, that students and young professionals from working- and middle-class backgrounds "have also become involved in extremist politics and even terrorism." Those recruits, the report warns, "may have the capability for wider and more complex proselytizing."

Extremist organizations have set up outlets on university campuses and, if banned, simply open up again under different names, said the document, whose contents were first disclosed in The Sunday Times. The document divides young extremists into two broad categories. The first category is "well-educated undergraduates" and those "with degrees and technical professional qualifications in engineering" or information technology. The second is "underachievers with few or no qualifications, and often a criminal background."

In particular, the report said, "Muslims are more likely than other faith groups to have no qualifications (over two-fifths have none) and to be unemployed and economically inactive, and are over-represented in deprived areas."

The idea that the terrorist threat is increasingly homegrown and transcends both ethnicity and direct links to a global Qaeda conspiracy is welcomed by Pakistan, which has been accused of not doing enough to root out the remnants of Al Qaeda. Three of the four bombers in the first London attack were of Pakistani descent and at least two had spent time in Pakistan.

"When the first bombing happened and everyone focused on Pakistan, we said, 'You may be making a mistake if you have a unifocal view,' " said Maleeha Lodhi, Pakistan's ambassador to Britain, in an interview. "It's much more mixed up than people think. What you're seeing is something very lethal and it has nothing to do with ethnicity."

"We are seeing a lot of local groups that seem to have a random pattern, no operational linkage or even inspirational linkage," she said. "Some may claim to be Al Qaeda, some not, and that is foxing everybody."

Earlier attacks reflected some of the same elements found in the London bombings. First came Casablanca, then Madrid.

In May 2003, a dozen young, poor, undereducated men, all born and reared in the same slum in Casablanca, Morocco, attacked five sites there, four apparently chosen for their Jewish connections. Forty-two people died, including the attackers.

"It was local guys thinking global," said Olivier Roy, author of the book "Globalized Islam."

"They didn't target a symbol of the Moroccan government," he added. "They inscribed their actions in a global perspective. I'm not sure the ethnic Pakistanis involved in the first London attacks have anything to do with Pakistan."

The train attacks in Madrid in March last year represented more of a blend. While most of those involved were Moroccan, some were from other countries. Some of the attackers were radicalized Muslims, others common criminals.

The most senior member of the team, and the suspected local leader of the cell, was a Tunisian who aspired to be a fashion model but became a successful real estate agent before turning radical.

The Madrid plotters included native Spaniards, who had no connection to global jihad, including a former miner who was arrested on charges that he stole and handled the explosives used in the operation and a 16-year-old nicknamed "The Gypsy" who was given a six-year youth detention sentence last November after pleading guilty to transporting explosives. In searching for the mastermind of the Madrid attacks, the Spanish authorities have focused on a number of foreign-based suspects, including an Egyptian and a Syrian.

In London, investigators are trying to determine whether the cells involved in the attacks were homegrown or had any operational link to a wider network.

Investigators say that while they see the terrorism threat in Europe as more homegrown, the inspiration is increasingly Iraq. In the past several months, a number of European countries have uncovered cells of native-born men poised to travel to Iraq to fight alongside the insurgency.

In an interview published in Le Parisien on Friday, Interior Minister Nicolas Sarkozy of France said at least seven Frenchmen had been killed while fighting with the insurgency in Iraq.

The ever-shifting nature of the threat has made it increasingly challenging, in Britain and elsewhere, to come up with a strategy to combat it. Police and intelligence officials acknowledge that they are still too focused on threats linked to clearly identifiable ethnic radical groups, both domestic and international, and not enough on homegrown blends.

In a cover letter to the 2004 British report on counter-terrorism, Sir Andrew Turnbull, the cabinet secretary and one of Mr. Blair's closest aides, said the goal of Britain's strategy was "to prevent terrorism by tackling its underlying causes, to work together to resolve regional conflicts to support moderate Islam and reform and to diminish support for terrorists by influencing relevant social and economic issues."

But, he added, "without being clear about the nature of the problem, one can only tentatively identify possible responses in general terms."

Hélène Fouquet contributed reporting for this article.



Copyright 2005 (http://www.nytimes.com/ref/membercenter/help/copyright.html) The New York Times Company (http://www.nytco.com/)

ablarc
October 15th, 2006, 05:54 PM
"It was local guys thinking global," said Olivier Roy, author of the book "Globalized Islam."

Investigators say that while they see the terrorism threat in Europe as more homegrown, the inspiration is increasingly Iraq. In the past several months, a number of European countries have uncovered cells of native-born men poised to travel to Iraq to fight alongside the insurgency.

In an interview published in Le Parisien on Friday, Interior Minister Nicolas Sarkozy of France said at least seven Frenchmen had been killed while fighting with the insurgency in Iraq.
Thank you, Mr. Bush. This is your legacy: a new terrorist haven.