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peacenow9
July 22nd, 2005, 03:23 PM
The only nonviolent food is fruit

http://fruitarians.blogspot.com

miyom
July 23rd, 2005, 01:54 PM
allow me to be stupid for a moment, okay? come for the ride.

alright, how is being a fruitarian non-violent? i understand the theory; no "theft from animal or plant". you also haven't killed an animal, which i am all for. however, what's with the "not harming any plants" defense. who's to say when the life of a plant begins or ends? aren't you ingesting and then halting the life of a plant? you've killed it.

it was also said that the harvesting of vegetables kills and injures humans. isn't that a problem with the harvesting procedures and machinery themselves and not the eating of vegetables? live off air.

it should be noted that i didn't read the entire site, but like most people, felt i could open my big mouth and comment under/uninformed.

lofter1
July 23rd, 2005, 03:26 PM
This might generally be true, however I once knew a persimmon ...

ryan
July 23rd, 2005, 03:37 PM
There's lots of holes in that site... like forcing a cat to eat a vegetarian diet? That's just silly - cats are biological carnivores, and should eat more than 95% protein and fat to be healthy. Human biology allows us a choice of diets, but we're the exception, not the rule.

miyom
July 23rd, 2005, 04:48 PM
This might generally be true, however I once knew a persimmon ...
whoa. that took me an hour to get.

softsecret
July 24th, 2005, 12:31 PM
I love the idea and I wholeheartedly agree that we would all benefit from the Fruitarian diet, physically. But really... lets get real here. Does the writer really expect us to believe that we ingest the "panic" the animals feel when being slaughtered? Thats the thing will these Vegan groups and other forms of Vegetarian and Fruitarian people. They have to carry their way of thinking just a little bit too far. It turns people off.

Nothing tastes better to me than an ice cold, piece of watermelon on a hot July afternoon or biting into a peach, just picked off the tree, its amazingly sweet, warm juices running down my chin... but what about stepping out of the ocean at the beach, to the flavor of a hot, charred Ribeye, plucked off the grill, with a bit of salt... or coming in from work and smeeling an inch thick, grilled slice of Pork Chop, smothered in horseradish with a nice baked potato? Or the amazing odor, waking up on a lazy Saturday morning to bacon getting crispy in the skillet, with fried potaotes, eggs over medium, and a big steaming cup of coffee? Did I make ya hungry??? lol...

All things in moderation...

~softy~

miyom
July 24th, 2005, 06:27 PM
Thats the thing will these Vegan groups and other forms of Vegetarian and Fruitarian people. They have to carry their way of thinking just a little bit too far. It turns people off.
~softy~
It's true. It turns a lot of people off. It also makes it harder to identify and take on the label. In fact, though I am a vegetarian and have played with the vegan philosophy and diet, I rarely identify myself as such. It just conjures up so many negative ideas that I'd rather not associate myself with.

It's funny that often times people of a specific group or common mindset turn to these types of swaying tactics. Why do they even need tactics? Sometimes these people are a bunch of loonies. But sometimes they may have some legitimate arguments to support their way of thinking. They choose not to use these legitimate arguments to persuade people to change their actions and thoughts. Instead they chose to influence through exaggerations, "fictional facts" and fear. The truth would have been enough.




Nothing tastes better to me than [...]flavor of a hot, charred Ribeye, plucked off the grill, with a bit of salt.[...]or smeeling an inch thick, grilled slice of Pork Chop[...]or bacon getting crispy in the skillet. Did I make ya hungry???
All things in moderation.

~softy~
Being a fruitarian, vegetarian, vegan or whatever has very little to do with what "tastes better" to a person. Though the smell and taste of ribeyes and bacon may void the low quality of life and the inhumane method of slaughtering for YOU, it does not for SOME people. Good taste. Dead animal. Are these equal in importance? To someone who elects not to eat it based on their OWN set of principles, they are not. And PERSONAL principles are not ignored "in moderation" or any other quantity. Besides, people eat based on culture, availability, habit etc. All things that can change or be overridden by education and awareness.

I think that most people would be different if they knew different. Not forced differently or tricked differently. With or without the "knowledge" -eat what you want.

softsecret
July 24th, 2005, 06:38 PM
It's true. It turns a lot of people off.

ok, maybe I should have said..."all choices in moderation".... ;)

Ninjahedge
July 25th, 2005, 11:42 AM
OK, fruit eating is plant baby killing.

It is the equavalent of eating egg whites. So enough already.


Miy, relax on the animal hatred there. Not all people "forgive" the cruelty to animals because a ribeye smells good. But, at the same time, they do not want to forbid it absolutely because that would mean eliminating something they like from their lives.

I think 90% of the stuff most vegetarians see as inhumane (odd, since humans are omnivores, that killing an animal is seen as "inhumane"... ;)) could be DRASTICALLY reduced if we just REDUCED the ammount we ate.

Hell, if there was no McD's/Taco Bell that would get rid of half of the farms outthere as is!


Who says we need a 22 oz porterhouse? We could get by with 8oz so long as the salad, rice, potato/etc was good!

We need to come back into balance. Give our kids the meat/protein they need to grow up strong, but do not force it down their throats, or make their diets meat-centric. And cut back on our own adult intake of meats.

We will see what happens though. Changing societal trends is not easy to do, and people calling others names when they do not agree with each other will not get anything done either.

ryan
July 25th, 2005, 01:30 PM
I don't want to get into a big argument, but just because humans evolved into omnivores does not mean an omnivorous diet is most healthful. We probably evolved the very adaptable digestive tract we have because human intelligence allowed us to eat a wider variety of food than animals that are less able to solve problem, not because we need it. No one needs to eat animal protein to be healthy, and in fact americans have been force fed (ha!) an overstated idea of a healthy amount of protein by companies that sell animal protein. (hello dairy council, beef and pork advertising)

We only need about 3-4 oz of protein, which is about the size of a matchbook. After that amount, protein is stored as fat - and lots of it, because it is very caloric.

Ninjahedge
July 25th, 2005, 03:01 PM
Actually ryan, that is not entirely true. Protien requires a lot of energy to break down, so eating a lot of lean meat will not get you fat.

I am not trying to change your views, but give you a bit of, I don't know, perspective on things so when you try to argue your case you do not bring up things that are not true.

Associating untruths with your arguement does not lend it credibility, so.....(don't ;))

Anywho, if you think it is easy to get ANYTHING down the throat of a growing kid, you obviously have not had kids yet.

Quite honestly, neither have I, but I have been at the table with enough to know how hard it is. Tehre are not many sources of protien that kids find palatable. Lima beans? I hate lima beans and I am not that finicky!

The arguement can be stated that a lot of things are healthier, and that TODAYS vegan diet can have all the protiens that a human needs to grow and develop, but that is only after certain plants are included in the mix to ensure the appropriate aminos and peptides. If the kid does not like it, or any other reason comes up (short supply, etc etc), meat is an easy source of protien that does not require much knowledge of protien content to get all you need.


As I have said, if we were to reduce it to the ammount we need (and no, that would not be a piece of beef the size of a matchbox, unless you are talking about the bigger wooden ones with the strike on the side of the box) we would not have a need for chicken farms.


And one thing, try not to put human emotion into the minds of animals. We somehow think that all animals are happier out in the open. I am not going to argue this either way aside from saying that we really do not know what makes a cow happy in that respect. We THINK that that would make them happy, because that makes US happy. Like getting a pretty collar for the kitty, or a new bowl for the dog. But they might be just as happy with a pile of sweet hay in front of them in a closed barn as standing outside in the sun for 12 hours chewing grass and cud.....


We don't know, so do not make an emotional arguement if you want to try to convince people of what you are saying. It usually only leads to an emotional defense, and that never leads to a bunch of happy smiling faces at the end... ;)

miyom
July 25th, 2005, 06:12 PM
first, "animal hatred"? what on earth?


OK, fruit eating is plant baby killing.

It is the equavalent of eating egg whites.

second, i prefaced that post with "let me be stupid". i was just kicking some mess around. and um..no. eggs are unfertilized. seeds have been fertilized. eating egg whites is eating chicken menstruation. eating seeds is eating baby plants. this is soooo dumb. ha!







Not all people "forgive" the cruelty to animals because a ribeye smells good. But, at the same time, they do not want to forbid it absolutely because that would mean eliminating something they like from their lives.



third, like was previously stated, you have chosen what means more to you when you buy and consume these products. you have perpetuated and supported the problem. would you knowingly buy a wallet produced by children in unhealthy, abusive conditions because you thought it looked nice? buying = supporting. it applies for all things whether or not you "like" it, sorry.





(odd, since humans are omnivores, that killing an animal is seen as "inhumane"... ;))

fourth, i said the METHOD. please don't try to make me appear as some vegetarian/animal rights extremist, god. for the record, i am not against killing animals for food, though i do find it unnecessary. it's a myth that animals are frolicking in the pastures before their "day" comes. it ain't Charlotte's Web folks. I am against debeaking, oxygen-deficient, excessive ammonia sheds; growth homones which accelerates growth to the point of not being able to walk and legs break (legs and bones cannot support abnormally heavy bodies), heart and lungs not able to accommodate growth = congestive heart failure, living in an environment of excrement and other dead/nearly dead animals underfoot, fully conscious chicken dunked in boiling hot water and on and on and on... and that's only for chicken. (http://www.poultry.org/eggs.htm)





people calling others names when they do not agree with each other will not get anything done either.

okay. whoa! i will go out on the limb and assume that you are talking specifically to me when you say "people". if so, examples? i never called anyone any names. in fact, i went OUT OF MY WAY to make obvious that i was merely talking about a mindset and an individual choice. i respect that people have made choices, even if i don't respect the choices itself. i'm sure that works both ways. i also recognize that it isn't my place to make/trick/berate you into changing it (PETA you suck!). anyway, i don't make it a mission of mine to change societal trends, but i do want people to base choices on evidence not just because. you are making a choice, like most choices, that is way beyond what you see.

dumb, but smart. here. (http://www.themeatrix.com/)
where chicken nuggets are born. here. (http://www.factoryfarming.com/)

ryan
July 25th, 2005, 06:35 PM
I think Ninjahedge enjoys playing devil's advocate a bit too much...

Law & Order
July 25th, 2005, 06:38 PM
Sick. I can not tell you how much I would love to hang the owners of all these companys from there feet and put them through the machine throat cutter. Actually there is an idea. I saw the egg hatching place for a second on the Food Channel one, discusting. Thousands probaly millions of hens, not even able to move, with bright lights shining constantly, more hens above them and below them, and beside them.

I stongly advise people to go to the link miyom provided.

http://www.factoryfarming.com/

ryan
July 25th, 2005, 06:40 PM
Has anyone ever been to farm santuary (http://www.farmsanctuary.org/)? I keep meaning to go, but then it gets pushed down the list...

miyom
July 25th, 2005, 06:50 PM
And one thing, try not to put human emotion into the minds of animals. We somehow think that all animals are happier out in the open. I am not going to argue this either way aside from saying that we really do not know what makes a cow happy in that respect. We THINK that that would make them happy, because that makes US happy. Like getting a pretty collar for the kitty, or a new bowl for the dog. But they might be just as happy with a pile of sweet hay in front of them in a closed barn as standing outside in the sun for 12 hours chewing grass and cud.....
We don't know, so do not make an emotional arguement if you want to try to convince people of what you are saying. It usually only leads to an emotional defense, and that never leads to a bunch of happy smiling faces at the end... ;)

generally we are wrong when we apply "human emotions" to that of an animal, but i am pretty sure that in these conditions (http://factoryfarming.com/gallery/photos_dairy.htm) they are NOT happy. what do you think?

Jasonik
July 25th, 2005, 07:13 PM
Monocropping soybeans for tofuburgers is just as bad as those chickens stuffed in a barn.

Support good, ethical, and sustainable farming practices by purchasing organic free range and grass fed meat and poultry. Turning people off from meat does nothing to encourage the practices of these reputable farmers.

It's the same as swearing off giving money to all politicians and not voting because they're all slimy bums.

Vote with your dollars.

miyom
July 25th, 2005, 07:18 PM
We don't know, so do not make an emotional arguement if you want to try to convince people of what you are saying. It usually only leads to an emotional defense, and that never leads to a bunch of happy smiling faces at the end... ;)
hey! your argument isn't so great either. having an unsupported defense is equivalent to an emotional one. how much protein does an adult need? how much does the typical person consume? what are some sources; how much in each source? what are the physical consequences of eating too much protein? yes, too much.

i always felt that it was odd that we are always so focused on consuming enough calcium and protein. what about the plethora of other nutrients that go ignored? calcium, protein, calcium, protein. that's all you ever hear. it really sounds like some underground meat and dairy propaganda to get Americans to eat more of it or at least get us to believe that they are the only true and complete source.

http://veggietable.allinfo-about.com/articles/protein.html
http://www.vrg.org/nutrition/protein.htm

Law & Order
July 25th, 2005, 07:31 PM
Does anyone have any names of who is responsible for the treatment of these animals? Like the owners of the companies? Do big companies like Tyson, directly say how to treat the animals or do they get there meat from private companies?

miyom
July 25th, 2005, 07:50 PM
Monocropping soybeans for tofuburgers is just as bad as those chickens stuffed in a barn.

Support good, ethical, and sustainable farming practices by purchasing organic free range and grass fed meat and poultry. Turning people off from meat does nothing to encourage the practices of these reputable farmers.

It's the same as swearing off giving money to all politicians and not voting because they're all slimy bums.

Vote with your dollars.

a). i agree. i am not, though trying turn anyone off from eating meat. my behavior was changed when i understood where my food was coming from and how it was produced. i only hope that other people learn, too. i applaud the fact that you have made a connection between yourself, food/animals and money. i wish more people were like you, not neccessarily vegetarians.

b). i rarely eat soy 'meat' products, but still i don't understand the parellels you are drawing.

c). put money in most things and it's jacked. a lot of farmers stamp "free range" on their products and still have inhuman practices. it's a marketing ploy for people who have compassion. it's also loosely regulated. as it is,there is no inspection system for companies that label their eggs "free-range" nor any legal or commercial definitions for what is considered such. it would require that you do some research to find out exactly what you were purchasing.

"The term 'free-range' doesn’t really tell you anything about the [animal’s]…quality of life, nor does it even assure that the animal actually goes outdoors.”
— Peter Perl, The Washington Post Magazine, November 5, 1995

ryan
July 25th, 2005, 08:50 PM
Does anyone have any names of who is responsible for the treatment of these animals? Like the owners of the companies? Do big companies like Tyson, directly say how to treat the animals or do they get there meat from private companies?

Factory farming is the standard, so you name a company and chances are that they are responsible. Free range and certifified organic have real meaning, and part of the higher cost of these foods is that the farming practices are more humane/less environmentally damaging.


Monocropping soybeans for tofuburgers is just as bad as those chickens stuffed in a barn.

Monocropping is bad, for sure, but I would argue that it is not anywhere near as environmentally damaging as factory farming livestock. It doesn't waste as many resources, and creates less pollution. If you care about animal cruelty there isn't much of a comparision to make.

Small-scale farming is obviously ideal, and we can all support it by buying local and/or artisinal products.

Ninjahedge
July 26th, 2005, 09:00 AM
first, "animal hatred"? what on earth?



second, i prefaced that post with "let me be stupid". i was just kicking some mess around. and um..no. eggs are unfertilized. seeds have been fertilized. eating egg whites is eating chicken menstruation. eating seeds is eating baby plants. this is soooo dumb. ha!

Some are fertalized. Yo uhave no doubt had an egg from time to time that has feathers IN it. I know I have. Sometimes a few 'cks' get through the fence, if you know what I mean.


They said they were wearing condoms, but you can never trust those guys.


third, like was previously stated, you have chosen what means more to you when you buy and consume these products. you have perpetuated and supported the problem. would you knowingly buy a wallet produced by children in unhealthy, abusive conditions because you thought it looked nice? buying = supporting. it applies for all things whether or not you "like" it, sorry.

Ah, so ANYONE that purchaases ANY meat is the bad guy. You are not going to convince anyone with an arguement like that. I know people that go out and have a burger just BECAUSE someone tried that route of arguement on them.

How does it feel to be contributing to the killing of these decent, law abiding, american farm animals? ;)

And there you go mixing humans with animals again. Beef production is NOT IN ANY WAY RELATED TO SWEATSHOPS. What's next, comparison to clubbing baby seals? Come on already!


fourth, i said the METHOD. please don't try to make me appear as some vegetarian/animal rights extremist, god. for the record, i am not against killing animals for food, though i do find it unnecessary. it's a myth that animals are frolicking in the pastures before their "day" comes. it ain't Charlotte's Web folks. I am against debeaking, oxygen-deficient, excessive ammonia sheds; growth homones which accelerates growth to the point of not being able to walk and legs break (legs and bones cannot support abnormally heavy bodies), heart and lungs not able to accommodate growth = congestive heart failure, living in an environment of excrement and other dead/nearly dead animals underfoot, fully conscious chicken dunked in boiling hot water and on and on and on... and that's only for chicken. (http://www.poultry.org/eggs.htm)

Um, you did not even see the winkey face? You take this WAY too seriously if you cannot see that irony is irony. How is it Un-human to kill whaen that is what humans have done since their creation?

Whether YOU believe it or not, and qualify the statement by showing the equivalent of 1980's PETA footage on the "chicken concentration camps", does not matter. The eating these animals has been labeled as inhumane.

If these farms went out of existance 20 minutes from now, and people still ate chickens, there would STILL be people calling it inhumane, and that was my point.

The point you quoted was a general statement.

It also had a winkey face. :p


okay. whoa! i will go out on the limb and assume that you are talking specifically to me when you say "people".

Wrong, but you can continue.


if so, examples? i never called anyone any names. in fact, i went OUT OF MY WAY to make obvious that i was merely talking about a mindset and an individual choice. i respect that people have made choices, even if i don't respect the choices itself. i'm sure that works both ways. i also recognize that it isn't my place to make/trick/berate you into changing it (PETA you suck!).

Agreed, PETA sucks. They are hurting their cause now by alienating any borderline supporters because they do not agree 100% with what they are trying to accomplish.


anyway, i don't make it a mission of mine to change societal trends, but i do want people to base choices on evidence not just because. you are making a choice, like most choices, that is way beyond what you see.

dumb, but smart. here. (http://www.themeatrix.com/)
where chicken nuggets are born. here. (http://www.factoryfarming.com/)

Ah, two things. One, I was not accusing you of anything, but merely giving you a bit of a heads up in a discussion of this sort. I was being flat, blunt and general in all of the fore-warnings I issued, I was not singling you out.

You have not spoken a hell of a lot on this, at least recently, and I was just setting out the "avalanche zone" warning signs before you stepped on them.

90% of the arguements I have been in on this subject usually end up with the person who is displeased, usually the vegan, starting to get angry at the meat eaters and accusing them of being heartless uncaring murderers.

It starts of with once or twice removed statements, and then it passes through human affiliation analogies, and then it cuts right to the quick.

The problem with persuasion that most people do not see is that you have to apply it in small doses. If you apply too much, people get defensive. The natural instinct to this is to press harder, but that does not work too well.

So whatever. I am not going to push anymore because it won't really help things here.


Second, who says I eat chicken nuggets? I also do not like Shark Fin soup, if you want to find something that is really bestial for a food/myth that holds as much salt as rainwater. ;)

Ninjahedge
July 26th, 2005, 09:22 AM
hey! your argument isn't so great either. having an unsupported defense is equivalent to an emotional one. how much protein does an adult need? how much does the typical person consume? what are some sources; how much in each source? what are the physical consequences of eating too much protein? yes, too much.

How much is in a piece of meat?

How many of teh amino acids we need for a day are in one 4oz piece of meat?

How many vegetables offer the same in 4oz?

Since when do we eat only the primal constituents of any foodstuff?

I do not live on suppliments, I do not think you do either.

http://www.cptips.com/protein.htm shows some protein numbers for active cyclists (not necessarily "average" but still).

I follow the daily recommendations for intake as proscribed by the American Ditary Association (is that its official name... You know, the pyramid). I try not to go over that, but when I get a craving for beef, I eat it. When I get a craving for green leafys, I eat them....

BTW, the article recommends about 1.2-1.7G/Kg of body mass for people training. That comes to about 120g a day.

Here are some protein stats:

1 cup cottage cheese-----28 grams
1 can (3oz) tuna fish----22 grams
3 glasses milk-----------24 grams
8 ounces lean beef-------66 grams
1 cup kidney beans-------13 grams
1/4 cup peanut butter----32 grams
1 chicken breast---------27 grams
3 egg whites-------------12 grams

So.....

I do not feel like Googling everything to back up statements that I already know to have a basis. Especially when it is not a court case. You know what I am talking about, please do not force me to go through the trouble of finding out which veggies have the aminoes needed to complete the dietary needs when I am NOT a vegan and I do not plan on being one.......

Please?


i always felt that it was odd that we are always so focused on consuming enough calcium and protein. what about the plethora of other nutrients that go ignored? calcium, protein, calcium, protein. that's all you ever hear. it really sounds like some underground meat and dairy propaganda to get Americans to eat more of it or at least get us to believe that they are the only true and complete source.

I would not doubt it, but I think these things are the ones that are needed as building blocks, and are the hardest ones to repair the damage from if you do not get enough.

Calcium is not readily absorbed later in life and bone mass decreases pretty quickly. It is better to start with more in the beginning, because getting it later is very difficult.

As for Protien, I think it is only vital to people who are still growing. Whether that is because they are kids, or because they are physically training, same diff really. You need the aminos, in the proper proportions to be able to build the structure you need.

The general population, however, ironically consumes MUCH more protien than it needs. They usually consume more than all but the shake-drinking trainers!

We do need to re-ajust our way of thinking on that one!


http://veggietable.allinfo-about.com/articles/protein.html
http://www.vrg.org/nutrition/protein.htm

I am at work now, so I am not going to look at the sites right now on vegetarian dot org, suffice to say, I thionk they outline the places to get most of the protiens needed in a vegan diet.

But, this is not a concern to me. I do not know if this is a slanted site or not, so I will not debunk them w/o reading them.

-------

As for all the pictures of FeatherSchwitz, come on! I am NOT saying that all these places are nice. Look at one of the first posts I made saying that a REDUCTION in the amount of meats eaten would help alleviate the problem. That and an effort to seperate the "humane" treatment of farm animals from outright abolition of meat.


If they think that is crowded, you should see the chicken apartments here in Manhattan!!! ;)

Ninjahedge
July 26th, 2005, 09:27 AM
a). i agree. i am not, though trying turn anyone off from eating meat. my behavior was changed when i understood where my food was coming from and how it was produced. i only hope that other people learn, too. i applaud the fact that you have made a connection between yourself, food/animals and money. i wish more people were like you, not neccessarily vegetarians.

A point I see as well.


b). i rarely eat soy 'meat' products, but still i don't understand the parellels you are drawing.

I hate veggie "burgers" and soy "meat". Serve tofu as Tofu and leave it be! But I guess marketing wants to sell the food, not get people to change what they believe to be tasty....


c). put money in most things and it's jacked. a lot of farmers stamp "free range" on their products and still have inhuman practices. it's a marketing ploy for people who have compassion.

$$


it's also loosely regulated. as it is,there is no inspection system for companies that label their eggs "free-range" nor any legal or commercial definitions for what is considered such. it would require that you do some research to find out exactly what you were purchasing.

Then that needs to be addressed rather than saying that "people do not need to eat meat". That is difficult to sepearte though, because the peopel that are willing enough to go out and fight for this legislation are also ones that want people to change their lives and see things their ways.


It is amazing how much harm activists can do sometimes when they do not seperate the causes they are fighting for.......(Activists are not the only ones that have this problem, look at what happened recently with the labor unions!)


"The term 'free-range' doesn’t really tell you anything about the [animal’s]…quality of life, nor does it even assure that the animal actually goes outdoors.”
— Peter Perl, The Washington Post Magazine, November 5, 1995

It just means that they got their stove in the kitchen for free!

;)

Edward
July 26th, 2005, 09:42 AM
I am curious - if eating meat is violence and murder, can the same argument be extended that a person taking antibiotics is a murderer? Where to draw a line? Anything less than a chicken is OK to kill? A mosquito? Mammals not OK, fish and insects OK?

How about the methods of killing? Direct killing not OK, but gasing with exhaust of industrial plants OK? What's then - dismantle industrial society?

ryan
July 26th, 2005, 11:02 AM
I think the only one calling meat eating murder is ninjahedge.

Anyhow, I am an evolutionary snob, so I agree with Edward's logic - I feel worst about killing mammals, less so about fish and poultry... though I don't eat any meat (or insects). I don't think there's a hard line so much as a gradient. I started going towards vegetarian in the 7th grade when my science teacher disected a chicken leg to teach the class how human tendons and ligaments work. A bit too facile a comparison

ryan
July 26th, 2005, 11:03 AM
Some are fertalized. Yo uhave no doubt had an egg from time to time that has feathers IN it. I know I have. Sometimes a few 'cks' get through the fence, if you know what I mean.

This is really the funniest thing I've read in weeks...

Ninjahedge
July 26th, 2005, 11:40 AM
This is really the funniest thing I've read in weeks...

I am glad it was MEANT to be funny... ;)


And as for the murder thing, if you do not see me directly associate someone to saying something, please do not do it yourself.

"people" are people, not you, or the others on this board. If it was, I would say "you" or... "the people on this board"... ;)


I think I am going to start putting Zoloft in the drinking water...... :D

Edward
July 26th, 2005, 02:45 PM
So much for thoughtful discussion. I am closing the thread.