New Calatrava-designed Tower in Chicago to surpass Sears Tower

[malec]

The latest design is absolutely amazing and looks even better when rendered at the actual height:

http://img406.imageshack.us/img406/384/spire9cw.jpg


This must be built, no questions asked

[BVictor1]

There is now a website for this project.

www.chicagospireonline.com (http://www.chicagospireonline.com)

[ablarc]

"The Chicago Spire will make Chicago's skyline the most beautiful experience of the 21st century and will begin a new legacy of tall buildings." --Santiago Calatrava.

This may be true, but the man needs a lesson in modesty.

[spyguy999]

^Perhaps, but what official website doesn't boast about its building?

Not sure where BVictor is, but he posted these photos today. Looks like there's some activity on the site again.



http://img256.imageshack.us/img256/6919/p1060575cl2.jpg

http://img256.imageshack.us/img256/1828/p1060576vx9.jpg

http://img256.imageshack.us/img256/1207/p1060595ny1.jpg

http://img256.imageshack.us/img256/108/p1060596ky6.jpg

[ablarc]

^Perhaps, but what official website doesn't boast about its building?
The website can brag as much as it wants; it's just commercial speech.

You expect better from an individual and an architect --especially a great one.

[spyguy999]

You expect better from an individual and an architect --especially a great one.

He's made similar comments before in various articles and interviews. Whether he means them or not, I don't know.

If he wants to see this tower built, and receive his paycheck, he will need to boast and schmooze buyers as much as possible in order to sell the huge amount units.

[Zephyr]

New Information now supersedes this post.

- Z

[lofter1]

Very cool -- thanks.

I reduced it in size ...

***

[spyguy999]

Version E (?) shown last night at CAF. There will be another presentation in 2 weeks where they are supposed to show the "final" version before seeking zoning approval.

First ones from Tom In Chicago
http://img456.imageshack.us/img456/2711/largetu5.jpg
http://img456.imageshack.us/img456/6200/originalah5.jpg


The next few come from Edward Lifson (http://www.edwardlifson.com)
Still seven sides
http://img456.imageshack.us/img456/5721/img6153oj5.jpg
Base
http://img456.imageshack.us/img456/1010/img6151fu8.jpg
Bridge
http://img456.imageshack.us/img456/1676/img6144bu9.jpg
His idea for DuSable Parkhttp://img456.imageshack.us/img456/1290/img6142hr3.jpg

[spyguy999]

Photos of the model from the New Eastside http://www.neweastside.org

http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/6691/spiremidlevelop800x562yv2.jpg
http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/3456/spiregrondlevelop800x57qw0.jpg

http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/4240/spiredusablemodelfromeovn6.jpg
http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/4906/spiredusablefromseop800cu6.jpg
http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/8761/spiremodelfromwop800x59yk2.jpg
http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/1876/spiremodelsop495x600my3.jpg

[BVictor1]

Originally rendered and posted by STR on Skyscraperpage.com


http://img168.imageshack.us/img168/9599/twt04.jpg

http://img168.imageshack.us/img168/3972/twt02.jpg

http://img168.imageshack.us/img168/5360/twt03.jpg

http://img168.imageshack.us/img168/6827/twt05.jpg

http://img168.imageshack.us/img168/3638/twt01.jpg

[Johnnyboy]

I love the building and the renderings but on the last picture it looks like a giant blunt.

[lofter1]

LOL ^^^

Calatrava needs a little "boost" for his inspirations :cool:

[antinimby]

Yeah, what happened? The midsection seemed to have gotten bigger.

Is that just STR or does it really reflect the change in design?

[BVictor1]

More detailed renderings are to be released on Monday at a neighborhood meeting.

[homeandaway]

Fill Us In When You Get Home!.

[spyguy999]

Another day, another revision. Hey, at this rate there might be another version by the PM meeting tonight.

First three photos by brian_b
http://img469.imageshack.us/img469/3237/spire1of2.jpg
http://img469.imageshack.us/img469/3080/spire2tu2.jpg
http://img469.imageshack.us/img469/4995/spire3bb3.jpg

From the Tribune:

Developer and Calatrava in the morning presentation
http://img252.imageshack.us/img252/2932/28630227xz3.jpg
http://img259.imageshack.us/img259/1914/csvid02su6.jpg
http://img471.imageshack.us/img471/2254/csvid03zz7.jpg

[BVictor1]

Photos of renderings from Mondays events.
http://images.photo.walgreens.com/3497%3B%3A9%3A4%7Ffp69%3Dot%3E2335%3D45%3C%3D36%3C %3DXROQDF%3E23237355768%3C9ot1lsi

http://images.photo.walgreens.com/3497%3B%3A9%3A4%7Ffp6%3B%3Dot%3E2335%3D45%3C%3D36% 3C%3DXROQDF%3E23237355768%3C7ot1lsi

http://images.photo.walgreens.com/3497%3B%3A9%3A4%7Ffp69%3Dot%3E2335%3D45%3C%3D36%3C %3DXROQDF%3E23237355769%3A6ot1lsi

http://images.photo.walgreens.com/3497%3B%3A9%3A4%7Ffp6%3C%3Dot%3E2335%3D45%3C%3D36% 3C%3DXROQDF%3E23237355768%3C2ot1lsi

http://images.photo.walgreens.com/3497%3B%3A9%3A4%7Ffp6%3C%3Dot%3E2335%3D45%3C%3D36% 3C%3DXROQDF%3E23237355769%3A8ot1lsi

http://images.photo.walgreens.com/3497%3B%3A9%3A4%7Ffp68%3Dot%3E2335%3D45%3C%3D36%3C %3DXROQDF%3E23237355768%3C4ot1lsi

[ramvid01]

The base looks kind of cool and it seems sort of cantilevered, sort of like Citicorp on 53rd. Is that the only part of the design they changed?

[homeandaway]

very, very swanky and it looks like its got the creators from the turing torso and the new tower in Shangai - Jin Mao Tower. - agree?
So when or will the construction start?.
~Alex~

[TREPYE]

Photos of renderings from Mondays events.


http://images.photo.walgreens.com/3497%3B%3A9%3A4%7Ffp6%3B%3Dot%3E2335%3D45%3C%3D36% 3C%3DXROQDF%3E23237355768%3C7ot1lsi

http://images.photo.walgreens.com/3497%3B%3A9%3A4%7Ffp69%3Dot%3E2335%3D45%3C%3D36%3C %3DXROQDF%3E23237355769%3A6ot1lsi

http://images.photo.walgreens.com/3497%3B%3A9%3A4%7Ffp6%3C%3Dot%3E2335%3D45%3C%3D36% 3C%3DXROQDF%3E23237355768%3C2ot1lsi

http://images.photo.walgreens.com/3497%3B%3A9%3A4%7Ffp6%3C%3Dot%3E2335%3D45%3C%3D36% 3C%3DXROQDF%3E23237355769%3A8ot1lsi

http://images.photo.walgreens.com/3497%3B%3A9%3A4%7Ffp68%3Dot%3E2335%3D45%3C%3D36%3C %3DXROQDF%3E23237355768%3C4ot1lsi


Woe!:eek: That is one incredible looking base! ;)

[lofter1]

The mini-me twisting tower in the plaza next door ;) ...

http://images.photo.walgreens.com/3497%3B%3A9%3A4%7Ffp69%3Dot%3E2335%3D45%3C%3D36%3C %3DXROQDF%3E23237355769%3A6ot1lsi

[Alonzo-ny]

I really dont like that base, doesnt seem to fit right with the elegance of the rest of the tower, seems tacked on.

[pianoman11686]

Is it just me or does this tower "twist" more than its earlier renderings suggested?

[Eugenious]

I really dont like that base, doesnt seem to fit right with the elegance of the rest of the tower, seems tacked on.


Huh? Whats tacky about it? It beats the base of Freedom Tower that's for sure. Kinda futuristic and open vs. closed tower of doom.

[Alonzo-ny]

Huh? Whats tacky about it? It beats the base of Freedom Tower that's for sure. Kinda futuristic and open vs. closed tower of doom.

The rest of the tower elegantly twists and cascades down then there are these random shapes there that dont seem to have a reason, id have the whole base transparent like the OLD freedom base. I agree still better than freedom tower although "most people who say that havent even seen the plans" quote Mr Childs

Crude but remove cladding to show structure and make transparent to be like the rest of that part of the base
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/157/438728794_5ccca45aa5_o.jpg

[BVictor1]

The rest of the tower elegantly twists and cascades down then there are these random shapes there that dont seem to have a reason, id have the whole base transparent like the OLD freedom base. I agree still better than freedom tower although "most people who say that havent even seen the plans" quote Mr Childs

Crude but remove cladding to show structure and make transparent to be like the rest of that part of the base
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/157/438728794_5ccca45aa5_o.jpg

Um yeah,,!!!

I think that if they were removed the building would most likely collapse:eek:

And we wouldn't want that now would we?:rolleyes:

[Alonzo-ny]

Um yeah,,!!!

I think that if they were removed the building would most likely collapse:eek:

And we wouldn't want that now would we?:rolleyes:

Uh, im not an idiot, if you read my post it says remove the cladding TO SHOW STRUCTURE, if you look to the right of the image you will see the structure im referring to, behind the cladding.

[Citytect]

I like the base. Removing the cladding would be a mistake, in my opinion. The building just doesn't scream structural expressionism to me. Making the base reveal the structure would cause it to seem stylistically tacked-on even more than it does now (although, I don't think it looks tacked-on as it is). To me the base looks like an organic extension of the tower - like roots on a tree. The only things I find questionable on the base are the horizontal lines on those flying buttress-like elements.

The tower itself seems a little blunt to me (no pun intended).

[ablarc]

Base, shaft, crown.

Shaft is best.

Base is a mess.

[Alonzo-ny]

I like the base. Removing the cladding would be a mistake, in my opinion. The building just doesn't scream structural expressionism to me. Making the base reveal the structure would cause it to seem stylistically tacked-on even more than it does now (although, I don't think it looks tacked-on as it is). To me the base looks like an organic extension of the tower - like roots on a tree. The only things I find questionable on the base are the horizontal lines on those flying buttress-like elements.

The tower itself seems a little blunt to me (no pun intended).

I couldnt disagree more, i think my biggest problem with the base is the fact that the rest of the tower is very geometric and has a symetrical plan but the part of the base i have the problem with is not symetrical and its geometry seems random, if it has any. Imagine seeing the the tower, from a really close perspective, only able to see ten floors at a time and imagine panning down the tower top to bottom and you should see the base would be a rude interruption to the rest of the tower.

[Citytect]

Imagine seeing the the tower, from a really close perspective, only able to see ten floors at a time and imagine panning down the tower top to bottom and you should see the base would be a rude interruption to the rest of the tower.


I would find it neither rude nor an interruption, actually. Each of the seven sides is sliced away at the bottom in an arching direction that reflects the shape made as any of the sides spirals upward (particularly toward the top of the tower). It doesn't seem arbitrary to me at all.

I do agree with you about the sections you labeled "make transparent" on the rendering. They do present a problem, but I fear that the structure behind is solid and wouldn't benefit from cladding transparency.

Also, these renderings appear to be created in a way that makes each of the design elements stand out separately from one another. As a result the elements look especially contrast-y. However, I don't think the differences rendered between the blues and white would be so noticeable in reality. It's a complicated base design, but I don't think the reality would be as "busy" as the renderings suggest.

[Alonzo-ny]

The arch curves very agressively to side and if you continued its path it would stick out the side of the tower instead of flow up the natural form of the tower. Basically the tower isnt twisting as much as the arch is curved. i also think the rest of the tower comes across as elegant but these arches are large and brash.

Maybe it is just the renderings, i guess if the arches didnt stand out so much maybe i wouldnt have so much of a problem with them.

How "final" is this design?

[Citytect]

The arch curves very agressively to side and if you continued its path it would stick out the side of the tower instead of flow up the natural form of the tower. Basically the tower isnt twisting as much as the arch is curved.

I'm not saying the arch is the same as the twist of the tower, only that, to me, there is a clear similarity between the two lines.

[Alonzo-ny]

I'm not saying the arch is the same as the twist of the tower, only that, to me, there is a clear similarity between the two lines.

ok. at this point im going to agree to disagree or this could turn into a never ending discussion!
when do you think we will get the chance of seeing the real thing?

[Twista]

I was walking around and I saw them working on it they were like drilling holes. I didn't have my camera with me or otherwise I ould have taken a picture of it. But my question... Is it underconstruction?


I think they should build it because it be good for Chicago.

2000 feet is huge.

[BVictor1]

I was walking around and I saw them working on it they were like drilling holes. I didn't have my camera with me or otherwise I ould have taken a picture of it. But my question... Is it underconstruction?


I think they should build it because it be good for Chicago.

2000 feet is huge.

No, it's not under construction yet. They are taking core samples currently to determine how deep the caissons will need to be anchored into the ground. Of course it will be into bedrock, but they have to test the stability of the rock to dsee how deep they might need to drill into it.

Ity's supposed to go before the plan commission on April 19th, then it will go through zoning and finally it needs to be approved by the city council.

[spyguy999]

The changes to the building were approved by the plan commission today.

Some new renderings:
http://img356.imageshack.us/img356/1154/cs1io0.jpg
http://img369.imageshack.us/img369/4298/cs5gg7.jpg
http://img451.imageshack.us/img451/2738/cs6bt7.jpg
http://img356.imageshack.us/img356/7498/cs7es1.jpg
http://img369.imageshack.us/img369/9076/cs4up7.jpg

http://img451.imageshack.us/img451/6968/cs2it2.jpg

As well as some photos of the model from the Tribune:
http://img262.imageshack.us/img262/3081/29178879me8.jpg
http://img262.imageshack.us/img262/9684/29178874lv4.jpg
http://img262.imageshack.us/img262/4630/29178891zc9.jpg

There's also new website (not much on it yet) that hopefully won't offend ablarc :)
www.chicagospire.com

[antinimby]

Just beautiful--elegant, graceful, nicely proportioned.

This one will be hard for any other tower in the country...the world actually, to upstage in the future.

[ASchwarz]

Just beautiful--elegant, graceful, nicely proportioned.

This one will be hard for any other tower in the country...the world actually, to upstage in the future.

Except it doesn't make any financial sense. I would be shocked if this building is built. The only way it could be built is if it were dramatically downsized in height and bulk, or if the developer and his banks are willing to take a massive financial bath.

Unless you build this in Dubai, it doesn't come close to making economic sense. It's a beautiful vision but would have to command stratospheric prices that would be much higher than anything ever asked for a condo building anywhere on earth.

[Alonzo-ny]

I really like this tower (although i have questions of the base), and it really shows the difference between an established city and dubai. This is how you get the attention of the world in a good way without building countless ugly cheap towers that will be too tall to blend into the background in the future.

[TREPYE]

Its awesome how it is a totally unobstructed building next to the waterfront.

[drcronex]

I'm perplexed, Stern. How can the design be unoriginal? I can't think of another building in the world like it--save, perhaps, Calatrava's new tower in Sweden. And that looks positively blah compared to this thing.
I agree.
The Chicago structure reaches a level of beauty that the Malmo structure dosen´t have. In fact I feel the building in Sweden is quite clumsy and fake.

[lofter1]

Will this tower be done in time for the Chicago Summer Olympics?

[SolarWind]

Will this tower be done in time for the Chicago Summer Olympics?
Yes, if all goes as planned. According to the press release "Construction is expected to begin spring 2007, with completion anticipated in 2010." Chicago is bidding to host the 2016 Olympics.

http://home.businesswire.com/portal/site/google/index.jsp?ndmViewId=news_view&newsId=20070419006238&newsLang=en

If you already knew that and posed the question with a bit of sarcasm, my answer would be, I certainly hope so. I'd hate for this project to run into financial problems and only get partially completed by 2016.

[BVictor1]

From the Chicago Tribune

Evolution of the Chicago Spire
Zurich-based architect Santiago Calatrava¹s design for the twisting, 2,000-foot Chicago Spire has gone through numerous changes since it was unveiled as the Fordham Spire in 2005. Here is an architectural chronology of the project, which would be located across Lake Shore Drive from Navy Pier and would be the nation's tallest building:

July 2005
Chicago developer Christopher Carley unveils the Fordham Spire, a twisting, 115-story skyscraper designed by Spanish-born architect Santiago Calatrava. The tower would include hotel rooms on its first 20 stories and condominiums above. The building's roof would rise to 1,458 feet, 8 feet taller than Sears Tower, while a steel spire would bring its total height to 2,000 feet. With each floor rotating slightly over the one below it, the tower would twist 270 degrees from bottom to top, creating an effect comparable to a whirring drill bit. Parking is in a tiered 4-story podium attached to the building's base.
(Chicago Tribune architecture critic Blair Kamin)
http://a1022.g.akamai.net/f/1022/8153/5m/images.chicagotribune.com/media/photo/2007-04/29186466.jpg

March 2006
The Chicago Plan Commission approves a revised plan for the Fordham Spire, in which the roof rises to 1,570 feet, with a 30-foot water tank above it stretching to 1,600 feet. The spire still rises to 2,000 feet, but its structure is modified so it can accommodate broadcast antennas. The project now has 124 stories, with more condominium units and fewer hotel units than the original version. Its floors now make a 360-degree turn from ground to summit. Parking is shifted to a separate 6-story structure to the tower's north.
http://a1022.g.akamai.net/f/1022/8153/5m/images.chicagotribune.com/media/photo/2007-04/29186527.jpg

December 2006
With Dublin-based developer Garrett Kelleher having taken control of the project after Carley could not get it off the ground, another design emerges, this one with no broadcast antenna or hotel. Kelleher decides those uses are not feasible. The tower, now 150 stories tall, becomes all condominiums, about 1,300 of them, tripling the number of hotel and condominium units Carley envisioned. The tower's rotation is cut to 270 degrees and it has an almost flat, domelike top that causes it to be nicknamed the "Twizzler Tower." The parking garage is moved underground and the tower footprint is shifted to the north of its site, creating the possibility for more riverfront open space.
http://a1022.g.akamai.net/f/1022/8153/5m/images.chicagotribune.com/media/photo/2007-04/29186531.jpg

January 2007
After the December 2006 version of the tower is widely panned, Kelleher and Calatrava unveil the architect's latest design to the Tribune. It restores the tower's 360-degree rotation and has a tapering, tiplike summit. The design remains a work in progress, however, and it is not shown in public meetings.
http://a1022.g.akamai.net/f/1022/8153/5m/images.chicagotribune.com/media/photo/2007-04/29186569.jpg

March 2007
Kelleher and Calatrava publicly unveil the revised design to Chicago community groups, but the unveiling actually contains more than one version of the tower. In the first (at left), the tower rotates more than 400 degrees from ground to top, appearing visually hyperactive. In the second, the skyscraper has a 360-degree rotation and a more subtle silhouette. The tower becomes wider near the top than the January 2007 version because of complex structural requirements.
http://a1022.g.akamai.net/f/1022/8153/5m/images.chicagotribune.com/media/photo/2007-04/29186702.jpg

April 2007
The Chicago Plan Commission approves the final plan for the Chicago Spire. The approved version is the second plan unveiled in March 2007, with a 360-degree rotation and a tapering, conelike profile. A spokeswoman for the developer says Kelleher plans to build about 1,200 condominium units. The design includes a riverfront plaza and a new plan by Calatrava for DuSable Park, just east of the tower across Lake Shore Drive (foreground). The developer will contribute millions of dollars in construction costs to build the park.
(Source: Tribune files)
http://a1022.g.akamai.net/f/1022/8153/5m/images.chicagotribune.com/media/photo/2007-04/29186759.jpg

[BVictor1]

http://www.suntimes.com/business/350713,CST-FIN-spire20.article

Light my spire
DEVELOPMENT | City planners OK Calatrava tower
April 20, 2007
BY DAVID ROEDER droeder@suntimes.com

The Chicago Spire, all 150 stories of architectural flair, advanced through a key stage of zoning approval Thursday, two days after its developer presented to city planners evidence of his financial stability.
Garrett Kelleher, executive chairman of Shelbourne Development Ltd., refused to discuss his assurances to the city. Kelleher, a Dublin, Ireland, builder working with celebrity architect Santiago Calatrava on the building, has claimed backing from Anglo Irish Bank.
Garrett Kelleher, executive chairman of Shelbourne Development Ltd., refused to discuss his assurances to the city. Kelleher, a Dublin, Ireland, builder working with celebrity architect Santiago Calatrava on the building, has claimed backing from Anglo Irish Bank.
But he's been a mystery in local development circles because he says he has no partners in what could be a $2 billion venture and because he vows to start construction without advance sales of the building's 1,200 condominiums. Other developers face condo pre-sale thresholds before a lender will release construction money.

http://media1.suntimes.com/nixoncds/image/042007spire2.jpg_20070420_01_32_24_22-282-400.imageContent
Artist renderings of Architect Santiago Calatrava's Chicago Spire as it looks at the building's base.
(Shelbourne Dev./S. Calatrava)

http://media1.suntimes.com/nixoncds/image/042007spire1.jpg_20070420_01_39_31_24-282-400.imageContent
Artist renderings of Architect Santiago Calatrava's Chicago Spire lakefront location. (Shelbourne Dev./S. Calatrava)
But he's been a mystery in local development circles because he says he has no partners in what could be a $2 billion venture and because he vows to start construction without advance sales of the building's 1,200 condominiums. Other developers face condo pre-sale thresholds before a lender will release construction money.
The Chicago Plan Commission, which advises the City Council on major projects, unanimously approved zoning for the building, which would be the tallest in North America. Kelleher and city officials revealed the developer has committed $9.5 million toward the future DuSable Park.
The building would go up on vacant land at 410 N. Lake Shore Drive, and DuSable Park, a dream of neighborhood activists for years, would be on the lakefront straight east of the tower.
Issues such as size, height and impact on traffic come under the plan commission's purview, not a developer's funding sources. But persistent doubts about Kelleher's wherewithal led him to confer Tuesday with Lori Healey, the city's planning and development commissioner.
She said she would not reveal what Kelleher presented because it's his private business. "I believe he has the marketing plan and resources in place to move things to completion," Healey said.
When the financial issue came up at the plan commission, Kelleher said he showed the city a letter explaining Anglo Irish's commitment. "I demonstrated to them how I am going to proceed," he said.
He also testified, "I have absolutely no doubt this project is going to sell out."
Kelleher said later that he was "thrilled" with the commission's endorsement and looks forward to completing a new chapter in Chicago's architectural history. Calatrava accompanied him to the hearing and received applause from commission members and the audience after he described his treatment of the site.
Computer graphics and Calatrava's impromptu drawings emphasized the tall building's human scale and its connection to the park, public space that could seem like a vast front yard for the spire.
Kelleher has promised to market the condos at market-busting prices to the international elite. City officials, pursuing a bid for the 2016 Summer Olympics, would like a skyline addition that certifies Chicago as a destination for the world.
"This should be approved today because it enhances the international quality of Chicago," said Ald. Burton Natarus (42nd), in the final days of his tenure representing downtown and the Near North Side.
Natarus said concerns about Kelleher's finances must be pushed aside. "We have to help the developer complete this project. Otherwise, the whole world will say Chicago doesn't have it," the alderman said.
The plan commission's vote sends the zoning matter to the full City Council, which could approve it May 9.
Leaders of several civic groups praised the project, although some included caveats that they wanted to be involved in ongoing plans for traffic management, a future auto ramp to lower Lake Shore Drive and other issues.
An especially enthusiastic supporter, Bob O'Neill, president of the Grant Park Advisory Council, advised Kelleher to serve his critics crow on the 150th floor once the building opens.
City officials said the developer will be obligated to provide funds for DuSable Park in phases before his building is completed. Other work such as the Lake Shore Drive ramp and a pedestrian bridge to the park will come at the developer's cost, they said.
A prior version of the building, with a different developer at the helm, received zoning approval last year. It was the same height but contained only about a third of the space of the new version.
Kelleher needed a zoning change to accommodate the larger size and a change in the use. The old version contemplated a hotel, which Kelleher has jettisoned.

[BVictor1]

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/chi-070419spire,1,4563307.story?coll=chi-news-hed

Financial questions tower over Spire's political win
By Susan Diesenhouse
Tribune staff reporter
Published April 20, 2007, 12:49 AM CDT


The political hurdles facing the developer of a proposed tower in Chicago that would be North America's tallest structure don't seem nearly as daunting as the financial ones.
The Chicago Spire took another step toward becoming a 2,000-foot-high reality Thursday when the Chicago Plan Commission recommended that its current design by famed architect Santiago Calatrava be approved by the city zoning committee.
But given Garrett Kelleher's reticence to reveal project cost or unit prices and the fact that he has yet to start marketing or secure the necessary loans, questions abound about the financial feasibility of a project that could cost more than $2 billion.
During the hearing, Kelleher, chief executive of Shelbourne Development Ltd. of Dublin, said the tower would be "a unique building in a happening city."
Regarding questions about the project's finances, Kelleher told the commission that a top executive at the Anglo Irish Bank, headquartered in Dublin, "fully supports me and I have shown their letter to the City of Chicago."
But one high-rise developer wonders if that would be sufficient.
"The world's tallest buildings are so expensive that they need countries or major corporations to bankroll them," said Steven Fifield, chairman of the Fifield Cos., which has built office and residential towers in Chicago and elsewhere in the U.S. "The Anglo Irish Bank is not big enough to be the sole lending source on a project that could approach $1,000 a square foot to develop.
"That just isn't credible."
Moving through the city approval process, Kelleher's firm wants to increase the amount of space to be built on its 2.2-acre lakefront site to 25 times the lot size, rather than 10 times the lot size. That would enable Shelbourne Development to build a 2.4 million-square-foot tower. It also seeks permission to build exit and entry ramps linked to Lake Shore Drive.
Now that he has the Plan Commission's approval, Kelleher will ask the City Council's Zoning Committee for its OK of the twisting 150-story tower's design and site plan Thursday. If he clears that hurdle, he'll bring his project to the full City Council on May 9 for the final go-ahead.
Prospects appear good.
"This is a wonderful project, and everyone is very enthused," said Constance Buscemi, spokeswoman for the city's Planning Department.
Shelbourne also has offered to pay $9 million toward the development of the nearby 3.2-acre DuSable Park. In exchange, Kelleher acquires a valuable marketing tool: He will offer prospective buyers a home with an expanse of much-treasured waterfront green space.
Streeterville residents support the project on the north bank of the Chicago River at Lake Shore Drive, but they "continue to be concerned about traffic, completion of a [lakeside] bike path and the [DuSable] park," said Gail Spreen, president of the Streeterville Organization of Active Residents. She asked that neighbors be kept informed of project plans.
If, as expected, the spire gets a green light from the city, the 40 months of construction will get under way this spring, said Thomas Murphy, general counsel to Shelbourne. But, he added, the development firm has not yet hired a general contractor. It also has not started pre-construction marketing, routine for U.S. projects that will seek outside financing. But Kelleher said that during the third quarter he will start selling residences in the tower, which is expected to have 1,200 luxury condominiums, retail space and underground parking.
Real estate experts have estimated the project's cost could reach $2.4 billion, and at a time of rising construction costs, building such a tall structure is even more expensive because the higher it soars, the more complicated the engineering.
"Tall buildings, especially when they are slender, must be stiffer to withstand the force of wind, which means that the structure calls for more steel, an expensive prospect," Fifield said.
Furthermore, such towers require that more interior space be devoted to elevator service, so there's less space to sell. Murphy said he expects the Spire to yield only about 65 percent sellable space.
Another factor that could increase the complexity and cost of the project would be excavating to build underground parking so close to the water. To dig below the water level while keeping the site dry, Shelbourne would use a process called slurry wall construction that calls for great skill and time, both costly commodities.
Given the cost, Shelbourne might have to sell the units for $1,500 a square foot or more.
"You can get that in New York, Las Vegas, Los Angeles, London," Fifield said. "But Chicago is a kick-the-tires kind of town, so that will be more of a challenge."
Kelleher plans to market the Spire worldwide in such places as Dubai, Russia's St. Petersburg, Beijing, Singapore and Madrid, in addition to New York and other parts of the U.S. Already, he said, "the number of inquiries exceeds the number of units. I have no doubt this project will sell out."
sdiesenhouse@tribune.com

Copyright © 2007, Chicago Tribune

[Luca]

... (http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/chi-070419spire,1,4563307.story?coll=chi-news-hed)a project that could approach $1,000 a square foot to develop...

That's 10K a square meter = 5K in GBP. About half what something like that costs in London. Is central Chicago THAT cheap a place to live in?

[lofter1]

Yes, if all goes as planned. According to the press release "Construction is expected to begin spring 2007, with completion anticipated in 2010." Chicago is bidding to host the 2016 Olympics.


If you already knew that and posed the question with a bit of sarcasm ...
No sarcasm intended ... and I sincerely hope that Chicago succeeds in winning the opportunity to host the olympics in '16.

[drcronex]

On closer look, I am totally convinced by that white model but not by subsequent images, as shown in the Chicago Tribune. Which shows crooked traditional curtain wall windows.

I think there is a problem in working out the concept, something is not right with the design process.

Maybe Calatrava went out to dinner? :rolleyes:

[spyguy999]

A nice video that was shown yesterday

http://link.brightcove.com/services/player/bcpid770169321

The building will also be LEED Gold now.

[MidtownGuy]

Impressive! Thank you for posting that link .

[Punzie]

http://d.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20070420/capt.551d2639fc3a4033a6682fa41d9f64d6.chicago_skys craper_cx113.jpg
In this photo released by Shelbourne Development Group,
architect Santiago Calatrava makes a presentation of his design of
'The Chicago Spire' to the City of Chicago Planning Commission
on Thursday, April 19, 2007.
The planning commission approved the development on Thursday.
(AP Photo/Shelbourne Development Group, Brian Kersey)

[BVictor1]

http://d.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20070420/capt.551d2639fc3a4033a6682fa41d9f64d6.chicago_skys craper_cx113.jpg

In this photo released by Shelbourne Development Group,
architect Santiago Calatrava makes a presentation of his design of
'The Chicago Spire' to the City of Chicago Planning Commission
on Thursday, April 19, 2007.
The planning commission approved the development on Thursday.

(AP Photo/Shelbourne Development Group, Brian Kersey)



Who are you refering to exactly and in what reguard?

[Eugenious]

http://d.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20070420/capt.551d2639fc3a4033a6682fa41d9f64d6.chicago_skys craper_cx113.jpg
In this photo released by Shelbourne Development Group,
architect Santiago Calatrava makes a presentation of his design of
'The Chicago Spire' to the City of Chicago Planning Commission
on Thursday, April 19, 2007.
The planning commission approved the development on Thursday.
(AP Photo/Shelbourne Development Group, Brian Kersey)



Looks like somekind of a dildo or worse a toothpick, I still think the original june '05 proposal is the best by far. Dont understand why they did this.

'sigh'...oh well atleats its better than anything being built in here, 'ahem' Freedom Tower (of doom)

[BVictor1]

This was originally posted by Originally Posted by Kngkyle in the SSC Foums

Here is an insane animation showing what the Chicago skyline will look like in 5 years. Not all the projects are shown, just the big ones. Most of them are under construction or will be starting soon. It was made by Alliance on SSP.
http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/4/24/1014568/Chicago-2007-11-Animation.gif

[NewYorkDoc]

Quite the change, I must say I love the Calatrava tower.

[BVictor1]

Some diagrams that I've aquired.

http://img329.imageshack.us/img329/452/pdexhibits9151copyzy7.jpg

http://img408.imageshack.us/img408/9669/pdexhibits9152copypp5.jpg

http://img408.imageshack.us/img408/9125/pdexhibits9153copypf7.jpg

http://img329.imageshack.us/img329/9209/pdexhibits9154copyep8.jpg

http://img329.imageshack.us/img329/5136/pdexhibits9155copytr3.jpg

http://img329.imageshack.us/img329/6871/pdexhibits9156copyzp8.jpg

http://img329.imageshack.us/img329/3903/pdexhibits9157copyco6.jpg

[lofter1]

Excellent ^^^

Thank Ye :cool:

[Citytect]

I always thought the twisting spire that topped the first design of this tower was very awkward. The latest rendition is oddly my favorite - usually happens the other way.

[Alonzo-ny]

I agree i really like the tower. Still i wish the base wasnt so overcomplicated.

[BVictor1]

I agree i really like the tower. Still i wish the base wasnt so overcomplicated.

THat's what makes it so cool. Sometimes simple is boaring. Less is not always more, sometimes more is more.

[lbjefferies]

Can a tower be graceful and ugly at the same time? It's an incredibly well-executed design, but does anyone else feel like it's a little goofy? It'd look better at the Epcot Center perhaps.

[Alonzo-ny]

THat's what makes it so cool. Sometimes simple is boaring. Less is not always more, sometimes more is more.

sure but its the fact it is BOTH is what i dont like.

[Citytect]

Can a tower be graceful and ugly at the same time? It's an incredibly well-executed design, but does anyone else feel like it's a little goofy?

Yeah. It does have a bit of a novelty feel to it. While I like it and I applaud the effort to bring something different to the architectural scene in Chicago (and in the rest of the US for that matter), I wonder if its a little too different for such a very very large building. It's a building that demands attention. I hope that it doesn't become annoying.

[spyguy999]

http://www.shelbournedevelopment.com/press_release.php?id=76

The Chicago Spire Receives Final Approval from The Chicago City Council


09/05/2007

Shelbourne Development Group, Inc. announced that The Chicago Spire, an iconic building designed by internationally renowned architect and engineer Santiago Calatrava, received final approval today from the 50-member Chicago City Council. This action follows unanimous approval from both the City Council Planning Commission and the Zoning Committee in April. The Chicago Spire is scheduled for completion in late 2010 with construction expected to begin this month.

“The city of Chicago has enthusiastically embraced Mr. Calatrava’s vision, and we are both thrilled and humbled by the opportunity to add another architectural icon to the city’s skyline,” said Garrett Kelleher, executive chairman of Shelbourne Development Ltd. & the Shelbourne Development Group, Inc. “The Chicago Spire will be the world’s most celebrated address, and we look forward to beginning construction in a matter of weeks.”

The Chicago Spire, designed by a development team with experience in constructing some of the most prominent properties in the world, will provide a lifestyle unsurpassed by any other distinguished residence in the United States or abroad. Located at 400 North Lake Shore Drive, where the Chicago River meets Lake Michigan, the 2,000-foot tall elegantly twisting tower will house 1,200 unique residences with the finest amenities available anywhere in the world.

The Chicago Spire extends Santiago Calatrava’s artistic vision to create a modern and technologically advanced residential experience. Among its many extraordinary features, The Chicago Spire will include a spectacular four-story transparent glass lobby, unparalleled views from all residences, a six-story underground resident parking garage for 1,350 cars, and a one-acre landscaped public plaza.

The building will feature several innovations in engineering, including the world’s longest elevator run, a steel perimeter and concrete core. Also, The Chicago Spire will be engineered to meet the gold standard of LEED certification, which dictates among other things that rainwater be recycled for landscaping treatments, river water be used for cooling and special glass be included to protect migratory birds. Shelbourne is currently receiving bids for the caissons, which are part of The Chicago Spire’s support structure.

The Chicago sales center will be located in the NBC Tower, which overlooks The Chicago Spire site. The sales effort will be led by United Kingdom-based Savills, Plc. and will launch in early fall 2007 with a global marketing campaign. Savills is a leading international property advisor with experience marketing some of the finest residences around the globe, including One Hyde Park in London, and the Four Seasons Ocean Residence, a private ship.

[BVictor1]

More tree removal. 06/08/07
http://img126.imageshack.us/img126/4175/p1080634li0.jpg

http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/1922/p1080636xj9.jpg

[Derek2k3]

Poor tree. Each day I am more inclined to move to Chicago. Less than two years after its announcement, construction is starting. Everything about this tower would be impossible in New York. On a similar site we'd build a 35 story box that would take 10 years to complete.

[Alonzo-ny]

I really hope sometime in the near future there will be massive nimby backlash. Sometime when people wake up and realise, you know what these people are killing this city.

[BrooklynRider]

I'd take it in Manhattan in a minute.

[BVictor1]

duSable Park Site as seen from the boat. I haven't edited these, I just snapped them as I was giving my tour. 06/07/07

http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/6081/p1080610fg1.jpg

http://img375.imageshack.us/img375/673/p1080611uq2.jpg

http://img508.imageshack.us/img508/8009/p1080612hj2.jpg

[macreator]

Heck, I'd kill to have a few of those sleek glass curved curtain-wall residential towers seen in that last shot instead of the boxy towers we've gotten (and are getting) on Eighth Avenue.

[spyguy999]

Heck, I'd kill to have a few of those sleek glass curved curtain-wall residential towers seen in that last shot instead of the boxy towers we've gotten (and are getting) on Eighth Avenue.

Perhaps if you saw the other sides you might reconsider.

[sfenn1117]

If the 2,000 foot height limit was relaxed, does anyone think it would look good with a spire? It just looks like the top is missing something extra to me.

[ablarc]

Yeah. It does have a bit of a novelty feel to it. While I like it and I applaud the effort to bring something different to the architectural scene in Chicago (and in the rest of the US for that matter), I wonder if its a little too different for such a very very large building. It's a building that demands attention. I hope that it doesn't become annoying.
You put your finger on what's wrong with all the cheerleading for novelty. Nobody needs a city of Westins and Walkie-Talkies.

Maybe if we developed a little of the sophistication Fabrizio advocates we wouldn't howl so much for cheap tricks.

Worst novelty-vendor of them all: Libeskind.

[Zephyr]

If the 2,000 foot height limit was relaxed, does anyone think it would look good with a spire? It just looks like the top is missing something extra to me.

Garrett Kelleher, Santiago Calatrava's second developer, could only see the separate spire as a negative. The "tangled" spire, as he termed it, was either a surreptitious cover for a possible broadcast antennae (which he did not want) or more importantly, prevented the maximizing of livable space, which would convert into higher total value for the property. Santiago Calatrava now had the marching order to remove the spire from all subsequent versions. But this was truly one of those changes that was also a blessing in disguise. Mr. Calatrava was now free to pursue a design that would not need a spire to complete his sculptural statement - a point which he has emphasized repeatedly, long after the fact. Like many others, I believe this "starchitect" has done a splendid job in executing this particular aspect of his design, in varying degrees, for each of his subsequent versions - but there will never be a consensus.

That imbalance that you may see, and/or feel, among other things is an extension of Mr. Calatrava's desire to foster the appearance of motion in an otherwise stationary object. In this case, the motion is defined more clearly away from the base, as spiraling helical rails are manipulated by gradually increasing their spin as you ascend to the Chicago Spire's top. Since this is a motion of perception, it is highly subjective. The number of sides and degree of taper, can also factor into the perception of motion. But rotation of the floors which could be a factor is instead, always a constant of two degrees per floor in the same direction - something that is not always understood.

http://lynnbecker.com/repeat/calatravachicago/20070326presentation/20070326animationspiretip.jpg
... the appearance of motion in an otherwise stationary object ...

If the spire can be criticized as a negative, you might wish to include the base as well. If nothing else, the base can be seen as being at cross-purposes with the full effect of motion. But the base has been associated more with humanizing the form. Hence, this thin but mammothly tall building with the right base - so the argument goes - can make this supertall more accessible to those who formerly could only appreciate it from afar. Mr. Calatrava approached this need by eventually working through the details of various bases. For those familiar with his past skyscraper proposals, he has been criticized often for his bases. Even the Turning Torso in Malmo, Sweden, while much lauded as a skyscraper, was taken to task by some for being "ugly" or "unfinished" at ground level. And in the first version of Fordham Spire the base was referred to as having a "trophy" appearance and "too formal" by local critics in Chicago and Milwaukee. He continued to work through complete redesigns of that base for all versions of his Chicago building until he finally arrived at the one we now see.

http://filin.com.ua/data/16.ru/101/swissre_1.jpg http://media1.suntimes.com/nixoncds/image/042007spire2.jpg_20070420_01_32_24_22-282-400.imageContent
Comparing Bases: Norman Foster's existing Swiss Re (LEFT) versus Santiago Calatrava's approved Chicago Spire

What we have is and is not a Calatrava base. Yes he designed it, but it is also strangely derivative (see "Comparing Bases" above). As a matter of fact, if it weren't for its apparent need, one might be justified in championing a less compromised, artistic statement: a building with neither a spire nor a base - just a tapering, twisting, sculptural look, that gradually increases in intensity as one ascends to its summit?

In studying its components, the base can be divided into two segments. The lobby, or lower segment, is four stories high, and is larger at its top than at its bottom. The shopping/office area, or upper segment, even though it appears to be a mirror opposite of the lower, making it one of two halves that join together and form an egg-like base, is actually not a mirror opposite at all. The overlapping triangular facades that span the two segments and form an asymmetric arch on each of seven sides, masks the fact that the upper segment is a concave cylinder. Furthermore, the upper segment sits on a separate system of supports, doubling the total supports found in the main building. This doubling at the foundation can become a bit confusing upon first viewing. Then too the lower segment seems more thematically linked with the ground effects of the nearby landscape and plaza, whereas the upper segment transitions between lobby and main shaft and looks at times to be unresolved.

In my estimation, any real architectural glory will gravitate to the spiraling shaft rather than the derivative base. Afterall, Mr. Calatrava managed in the rest of this building to eschew many of the tired references to the past: by casting off not only a tacked-on top, but also substituting slope for setbacks, and concave window-walls over the more standard fare. The base, on the other hand, will capture the imagination of some and alienate others. At this very moment, on another blog, that base is being called "sublime" in one post and "messy" in another. I will leave you to your opinion, but as for mine, it will vary from day-to-day. For me elegant usually looks or is simple, yet manages to elevate in its execution. But there is nothing that looks or is simple about this base. True - it is difficult to take one's eyes off it - somewhat like the attraction to a puzzle, in order to solve it. If that base were here now, I would want to further explore its secrets. But where I once wanted to declare it "beautiful," I now substitute the word "intriguing" instead.

While Chicago Spire will not be the first of its kind, it has been skillfully reworked by Santiago Calatrava, through both the engineering and the aesthetics to produce one of the most integrative structures we could hope to have. By no means is it the perfect building in illustrating the multi-helix paradigm. The promise of this type of building is the answer it brings to skyscrapers of the future. If current research is any indication, these type of supertalls can be built higher and more stable, as load bearing structures, with this recent design alternative. But what will make them last in our memory will also be their beauty.

[macreator]

Perhaps if you saw the other sides you might reconsider.

Eeek, perhaps I spoke too soon then. Well, I'd still kill for that glass in place of some of the wavy stuff being fixed on some of the new residentials in NYC.

[Alonzo-ny]

Someone agrees with me about the base!!

[BVictor1]

I SEE CRANE PARTS
AHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!

http://img504.imageshack.us/img504/4487/p1080782gx8.jpg

http://img240.imageshack.us/img240/1746/p1080783ee9.jpg

http://img102.imageshack.us/img102/3748/p1080784eq4.jpg

[Punzie]

I"m not being facetious when I say that this website is very lucky to have somebody from Chicago to show us the progress of this masterpiece, play-by-play.:)

[BVictor1]

Shelbourne Development Awards Contract to Build Foundation of
The Chicago Spire
City grants permit – construction on Calatrava’s icon to begin within weeks

CHICAGO, June 26, 2007 – Shelbourne Development Group, Inc. announced today it has awarded Case Foundation Company a contract to begin construction on The Chicago Spire, the 2,000-foot tall twisting residential tower located at 400 North Lake Shore Drive. The City of Chicago has granted Case the permit and construction will commence within weeks.
"This marks a significant milestone, as it was the last step before officially beginning construction on The Chicago Spire" said Garrett Kelleher, executive chairman of Shelbourne Development Ltd. & the Shelbourne Development Group, Inc. "We're very proud to add Case to our outstanding global development team."

Case will provide 34 concrete and steel caissons that will comprise the foundation of The Chicago Spire. The caissons will be drilled 120-feet deep into the bedrock to support the 150-story building’s structure. In addition, Case will excavate a 104-foot diameter cofferdam 78-feet deep to create a dry work environment. The cofferdam – or bathtub-like structure will serve as the foundation for the core of the building.
Construction of this underground phase is expected to be finished in the first quarter of 2008. Environmental remediation is complete on The Chicago Spire site and Shelbourne’s environmental consultants STS have completed gathering field samples at DuSable Park. The Chicago Spire site has been cleared, secured and is ready for caisson construction. The Spire is scheduled for completion in late 2010.
The sales effort will launch in September 2007 with a global marketing campaign. The Chicago sales center will be located in the 18th floor of the NBC Tower, 454 N. Columbus Drive, which overlooks The Chicago Spire site. United Kingdom-based Savills Plc., a leading international property advisor with experience marketing some of the finest residences around the globe, will lead the sales campaign.
For more information about The Chicago Spire and Shelbourne Development Group, Inc., see http://www.shelbournedevelopment.com/ (http://www.shelbournedevelopment.com/) and http://www.thechicagospire.com (http://www.thechicagospire.com/).

About Shelbourne Development
Shelbourne Development, headquartered in Dublin, is one of Ireland's leading property development companies, widely regarded as one of the country’s most professional and progressive developers. In the past three years, Shelbourne’s experienced team, known for its track record in evaluating and capitalizing on cycles in property markets, has completed in excess of 1.5 million square feet of construction in Ireland. It currently has a development pipeline in Dublin in excess of $2 billion US. Shelbourne is currently pursuing developments and projects in Ireland, UK, France and Chicago. Garrett Kelleher, executive chairman of Shelbourne Development Ltd & the Shelbourne Development Group, Inc. holds significant investment properties in Europe.
#####

[BVictor1]

Took these about 30 minutes ago.

http://img158.imageshack.us/img158/397/p1080791hl0.jpg

http://img513.imageshack.us/img513/1037/p1080792sw4.jpg

http://img231.imageshack.us/img231/5278/p1080793eo7.jpg

[SolarWind]

June 26, 2007

http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/6261/dsc0106copyvq8.jpg

http://img244.imageshack.us/img244/4171/dsc0130copyfw8.jpg

http://img244.imageshack.us/img244/7195/dsc0125copysc8.jpg

http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/4873/dsc0119copyso5.jpg

http://img244.imageshack.us/img244/3379/dsc0120copyys6.jpg

[spyguy999]

Looks like a redesign of the base.

http://img503.imageshack.us/img503/8650/csnewiv0.jpg
http://img503.imageshack.us/img503/3238/csnew2hl8.jpg
http://img518.imageshack.us/img518/8179/csnew3bt4.jpg

[Zephyr]

Thanks spyguy999. I had already seen the latest on the official website, and I assumed someone would bring it here for all to see.

I'm embarrassed that I spent most of this afternoon just thinking about what is happening on this project. I'll explore only a few of my thoughts about these latest renders, and hold off on dealing with the rest of them.



SYMBOLISM: The good news is that this base is not as derivative as before, that is derivative in relation to signature Norman Foster - so there is no egg-like base (albeit a Calatrava illusion), and no diagrids. The latest base cleverly recalls one of Santiago Calatrava's many symbols for this supertall - not the smoke from a Native American fire on the plains, nor the spiral of a seashell, but rather a flower - the ripening flower that he famously projected onto a white screen, without further comment, at the conclusion of a packed meeting in Chicago. And from base to spiraling shaft, this ripening is transformed into splits where sides meet - a kind of over-ripening as it were. Like the Cheshire cat's "smile," the flower's "ripening/over-ripening" is metaphorically the remains that evoke the subject.

And what about those splits where corner windows are inserted? In the final version, these corner windows are beveled out of each side, but not framed - at midpoint they were attached to the rail. In the latest renders, however, they are framed on two-sides, and even have a gap without windows where the upper base meets the spiraling residences. So what happened to the multiple helix rails that appeared where the framed corners now stand? Extensive structural testing tells us they must be there, because the rails function as the lateral brace of the structure. But is this structural element behind the window, or behind some kind of sheathing, or does it look like sheathing but actually isn't?

We have been conditioned in much of modern architecture to expect "exposed" elements - especially structural. But in these latest renders, Santiago Calatrava appears to be headed in the opposite direction. After all the engineering effort that went into overcoming the need for arm-bracing for lateral load, creating that elegantly integrative, exterior rails solution for his Chicago building, we must now contend with a last-minute attempt to hide or disguise still further. These latest renders, moreover, carry the distinct possibility of a change in appearance for the rest of the building. Here's hoping that these latest changes are worth this continued aggravation in getting it right, and not the over-fertilization of a flower that leads to a wilting mess.


COLOR/REFLECTIVE: Gold, bronze, brown, or just reflective, have replaced the bluish tint on window walls above the base. In addition, the entire base has been included in a more uniform color or reflective window scheme.

I happened to like the previous bluish window tint but could have easily embraced a blue-green or marine green substitute. That is because all of these seem to fit into an appropriate river/lake color palette at this site. While color is not unimportant, consistent color or reflective color in the window walls, drawn from these traditional areas, will not likely make-or-break this building in and of itself. So there is no major objection that needs to be raised as far as I am concerned, although I am sure there will be those who will disagree.


http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1154/639922297_20185eb582.jpg
Comparing Renders - Previous to Latest
(Constructed from existing renders and posted by Chupper on the SkyscraperPage Forum)



LOBBY: Only after enlarging these photos did it appear that there is a definite clear-glass assembly surrounding the lobby portion of the base. The setting is simpler: the outer area consists of frameless glass panels, the inner walls and ceiling are likely wood slats to dampen overall sound and remove echo, the floor is polished and easily cleaned granite. But between this is a featureless proscenium, and that would be fine if you didn't know any better.

The sculptural design of the slat-covered ceiling does reminds us of the roof on the Bodega Winery (San Sebastian, Spain) or the similarly designed Wave Sculpture at SMU (University Park, Texas), both by Mr. Calatrava. But the effect is oddly alienating as applied. "Reminds me of a fancy humidor," one of my colleagues said. Maybe that seems harsh but it really isn't.

Not too long ago, those working on the project were planning a grand lobby: with lap pools on the perimeter, and at least a partially framed glass-block floor above the underground garage, with seating, green stands etc. None of this was made public, officially, but a few of the details did leak out, unverified. But it all went away by the final version, and remains that way in these renders. What is there is far more prosaic. A nice lobby, buy a transit lobby: hardly more than a way station on the path to somewhere else - not a destination in itself. With four stories of space to work with, this could be a great opportunity lost.


Reflecting back, Chicago Spire enthusiasts have become quite familiar now with "the Shelbourne shuffle," near the end of the last set of proposed changes. It starts with the visuals, which are displayed with changes in plain sight, or in a more retrograde version, the design elements deliberately do not match. Neither the initial press releases nor the people brought before the public to explain what is happening, would provide tangible information about the visuals. But privately, the version changes would make the rounds among the influencers and the city. And only after that would the public get the real story. The only surprise here is that this pattern, in a slightly abbreviated form, has crept into the site-prep phase, where it would normally not exist. And at the center of it all is a reworking of a major part of the building, the once heralded base, with the possibility of a reworked shaft in the offing.

I suspect the CS team will drop a few more renders onto the pile, and deliberately lose a few of the older images that exist today, before somebody (probably an architecture critic) forces them to acknowledge what they are evidently doing already. But if they are to get this project done, with these loose ends, everything must proceed at an accelerated pace, or they will be faced with the alternative of abandoning this strategy altogether.

[lofter1]

I like these changes ...



... I spent most of this afternoon thinking about what is happening here.

SYMBOLISM: ... one of Santiago Calatrava's many symbols for this supertall - the ripening flower.

https://www.terragalleria.com/images/np-tropics/npsa3808.jpeg

Wild Ginger flower (https://www.terragalleria.com/pictures-subjects/close-ups-of-nature/picture.close-ups-of-nature.npsa3808.html)

Tutuila Island, National Park of American Samoa

[SolarWind]

Thanks Zephyr. I enjoy reading your posts. I hope you will continue to post at SSP. I haven't seen you there in awhile.

[SolarWind]

July 11, 2007

Looking towards Lakeshore East
http://img167.imageshack.us/img167/5659/chicagospire2yr4.jpg

Looking east across DuSable Park at Navy Pier
http://img244.imageshack.us/img244/9357/dusablepark2tq2.jpg

Looking west
http://img505.imageshack.us/img505/4530/chicagospiregq4.jpg

Looking southwest over Ogden Slip (Trump Tower is visible to the left of NBC Tower)
http://img244.imageshack.us/img244/5271/ogdenslip2rs8.jpg

Looking west across the site
http://img516.imageshack.us/img516/9032/chicagospire2py9.jpg

[Zephyr]

July 11, 2007
Looking southwest over Ogden Slip (Trump Tower is visible to the left of NBC Tower)
http://img244.imageshack.us/img244/5271/ogdenslip2rs8.jpg

Looking west across the site
http://img516.imageshack.us/img516/9032/chicagospire2py9.jpg

Remarkable clarity in all your pictures, against a backdrop of a beautiful high-sky day. I particularly like these two, but for different reasons.

The O Slip has a balanced professional framing that I just love; the second has the site information with excellent depth of field (looks almost like a sculpture of a restless sea, made from soil).

Thanks for all of them.

[SolarWind]

July 30, 2007

http://img224.imageshack.us/img224/7419/dsc0259jn9.jpg

http://img256.imageshack.us/img256/9638/chispire2ov1.jpg

http://img175.imageshack.us/img175/2369/cs2ue5.jpg

http://img518.imageshack.us/img518/8630/cs1ck5.jpg

http://img518.imageshack.us/img518/9021/dsc0187hl3.jpg

http://img518.imageshack.us/img518/2476/dsc0176ya5.jpg

[Zephyr]

The Chicago thread has moved the Chicago Spire from Site-Prep to Under Construction !!!

[BVictor1]

A few shots from yesterday.

https://community.emporis.com/files/transfer/6/2007/08/550751.jpg

https://community.emporis.com/files/transfer/6/2007/08/550752.jpg

https://community.emporis.com/files/transfer/6/2007/08/550758.jpg

https://community.emporis.com/files/transfer/6/2007/08/550765.jpg

[ablarc]

So, why is the river turquoise?

[Zephyr]

So, why is the river turquoise?

Are you kidding?

[Citytect]

^He's not kidding. Do you know why the river is that color? We'd really like to know.

[ablarc]

Here, I'll help out with some possibilities that spring to mind: algae, industrial pollution, intentionally-released dye to improve the color, reflections from a man-made riverbed, naturally-occurring silica or other minerals. I've seen water of that color coming from mountain dam spillways in the former Yogoslavia, and perhaps from melting snow (neither can be the case here).

If the River is always this color, Chicagoans might be inured to it --unaware that most places water isn't that color. Come to think of it, neither is Lake Michigan.

[lbjefferies]

intentionally-released dye to improve the color.


My guess.

[ablarc]

^ Well, that's a plausible guess, but someone somewhere actually knows the answer. With all these folks from Chicago, you'd think one of them would know.

[Citytect]

After looking through some photos of the Chicago River and Lake Michigan, it seems to me that the color of the river is essentially the same as that of the lake. The river is just a lighter shade of that color because Lake Michigan is considerably deeper than the Chicago river. So the river takes the color of the lake as a result of its reversed flow. That's my hypothesis.

The question then becomes: why is Lake Michigan the color it is?

Here are a couple crappy photos I took from the Hancock Tower a few years back that show the color of Lake Michigan:

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b195/nova_cain/other/24.jpg
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b195/nova_cain/other/22.jpg

[Scraperfannyc]

The Chicago thread has moved the Chicago Spire from Site-Prep to Under Construction !!!

This is now the new occupied height to top in the USA. Love it. They did not fall for the spire crap either, just pure 100% occupied floors of goodness!

[Alonzo-ny]

some i took in 2005

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1316/1024259880_f50f41984e_b.jpg
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1343/1024259684_2fa0c6d631_b.jpg

[Zephyr]

^ Well, that's a plausible guess, but someone somewhere actually knows the answer. With all these folks from Chicago, you'd think one of them would know.

The Chicago River's color will inevitably travel off topic, unless it is related to how LEED certification is addressed by Chicago Spire through the Chicago River, or how the vistas are hardscaped by CS's plaza to take advantage of that setting etc. But the color of the river?

The color is different than the lake, but the explanation would take a while to get at the essence of that difference.

First off that picture you were observing, is highly saturated as you can see from the surrounding colors. The Chicago River is in reality a blend of colors: including browns, grays, and green, but mostly to-day it is murky green. It has flowed since 1900 from Lake Michigan rather than into that lake. That latter was the result of a nearly 15 year project to reverse the river flow by knocking down a riverbed ridge further inland, and using a step-like canal system to increase flow and permanently change the river's direction to go out to the Mississpi River, and dump whatever Chicago did not want.

Why do these elements have anything to do with color? Since its first significant settlement, Chicago's river was used for sewage. Sewage gave that river a decidedly darker hue, and stagnation caused the water to bubble up gases accompanied by foul odors. And most importantly, since Lake Michigan was the main source of drinking water, there were periods of cholera and especially typhoid, thought to be derived from the untreated sewage from the river seeping into Lake Michigan. Action was eventually taken to reverse the flow at great expense. But reversing the river, increasing the current, and controlling the descent of water to get it to the Mississppi River, also gradually changed the river's color and even transparency, but pollution still made the water brownish green in the city proper.

Then the city embarked on a programme to curtail runoff, and redirect sewage for treatment, and then jumped into something known as the "Deep Tunnel" project, in order to address other sewage matters. To some extent all of this helped to further reduce pollutants, and move the water from brownish green to a murky green. On some days, the water could look bluish green, in reflecting back the sky, but it is a bit of an illusion and perspective. Algae and decomposition in the river bed, still affect color, and industrial pollution downstream needs further curtailment. Yet there has been a great deal of change for the better. The Chicago River is in an evolving pattern of cleaner and less murky water, but it is also a work in progress. I've always found it humorous that Chicago's mayor talks of making the river into another Venice, with gondolas and extensive riverwalk paths with cafes, but I am sure he wouldn't want that river to be the same type of water as Venice's Grand Canal, that could only be accomplished by reversing the flow of Chicago history.

The water colors just mentioned can be found in many rivers that connect to one of the lakes of the Great Lakes where a major city resides. One need only look at the Don River in Toronto that has sewage going into Lake Ontario, or the recent past of the Cuyahoga flowing into Lake Erie through Cleveland, to see a pattern that resembles the earlier Chicago River. Cleveland and Toronto have adopted different strategies than Chicago, but transluscency, positive color changes, lower levels of pollutants, reduced runoffs, reduced soil erosion on the river beds, are all goals of these cities, and they all affect the color that we see.

[ablarc]

Finally, an answer --and a thorough one at that. Thanks. Are you a civil engineer?

* * *

Can you believe all the parking lots in Alonzo's second picture? Chicago seems to be dissolving like Houston. No one can be expected to walk in such a place.

Is Chicago still a city? Why does its powerful mayor allow this?

[Zephyr]

Finally, an answer --and a thorough one at that. Thanks. Are you a civil engineer?

* * *

Can you believe all the parking lots in Alonzo's second picture? Chicago seems to be dissolving like Houston. No one can be expected to walk in such a place.

Is Chicago still a city? Why does its powerful mayor allow this?

I am a structural not civil engineer. I am from upstate New York, but now I call Chicago home (although I only manage to get back there three months out of the year).

Those lots will disappear, based on the project pipeline. But then again, this is a bubble that seems to be doomed to bust, since the profile of 60 to 70% of those future projects look the same: residential mixed use. Mayor Daley is a force in this city and things get done when he brings his full attention to it, but he tolerates interests and corruption on a scandalous level some times, and I suspect that if you look deeply into the people who own those lots, they will likely belong to the politically well-connected.

Nevertheless, the cranes are out, and you can fall in love with this city just on the architecture alone. And the people there are abnormally knowledgeable about the history of that architecture, and Chicago's role in skyscraper history. Houston it is not, being a more diversified economy and zoned centrally. But that quest for bigness resembles a Texas frame of mind - only more urbanized in orientation.

[SolarWind]

September 11, 2007

http://img469.imageshack.us/img469/6601/dsc0130br5.jpg

http://img469.imageshack.us/img469/6433/dsc0128td8.jpg

[czsz]

^ That light brown brick thing really crapped up the context of that curvy kinda-Miesian tower yonder...

[JCMAN320]

Wow this tower is finally getting built, very impressive Chi-Town.

[NoyokA]

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1343/1024259684_2fa0c6d631_b.jpg

I don't understand Chicago, they have all these very tall buildings surrounded by parking-lots. Chicago Spire which will be the tallest building in the United States has a fairly recent 3 storey townhouse style building fronting its site. Furthermore the rents in Chicago are less than half the rents of New York, and even less than the rents of Jersey City. I just don't understand why they continue to build such tall buildings, I don't believe the labor there is that much cheaper either.

[czsz]

I just don't understand why they continue to build such tall buildings

Views? Prestige?

[Alonzo-ny]

They have nothing else to do. What is chicago like outside the loop? Any greenwich village, upp westside, chelsea like neighborhoods?

[BVictor1]

They have nothing else to do. What is chicago like outside the loop? Any greenwich village, upp westside, chelsea like neighborhoods?

Yes !...

There's Wicker Park, Bucktown, Uptown, Hyde Park, Andersonville and many other "creative and happening" places in Chicago.

[Alonzo-ny]

In my one day there i didnt leave much of the loop and and the park. Hopefully ill return sooner or later and check out the whole place

[DarrylStrawberry]

Spire sales being pushed back to January


(Crain’s) — Condominium sales at the Chicago Spire are being pushed back more than three months due to a delay with regulatory filings required by the federal government.

Condos were to go on sale Sept. 27 in the twisting, 150-story tower designed by renowned architect Santiago Calatrava that is to be the nation’s tallest building when completed in 2010.

A spokeswoman for the project, where foundation work has been under way for about two months, says sales of the proposed 1,193 condos won’t start until January because the necessary federal documents aren’t yet processed.
News of the delay is sure to fuel doubts about the capabilities of Irish developer Garrett Kelleher, who worked as a painting contractor in Chicago and was a small-time real estate investor here until just over a decade ago when he returned to Dublin and became a real estate tycoon, amassing a fortune that he says is more than $1 billion.


For Mr. Kelleher, head of Dublin-based Shelbourne Development Ltd., the delay means he must go longer without taking any contracts from buyers while financing the construction himself. Typically, condo developers don’t break ground until they’ve pre-sold half the units in their projects and are able to get bank financing.

“This is an incredible story about somebody taking an incredible risk,” says David “Buzz” Ruttenberg, chairman of Chicago developer Belgravia Group Ltd. “One of the most important things a developer can do is get a signed contract, because without them how do you really know if a deal works? He’s trying: ‘If I build it, they will come.’”

If the buyers don't come, however, Mr. Ruttenberg notes that the foundation now being built could also be used for a smaller building.

The local Shelbourne spokeswoman says the developer filed the documents to the U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development on time, but that the complexity of the 2,000-foot-tall project is making the process take longer than anticipated.

She says the three-month delay is primarily due to the regulatory holdup and that the launch was pushed back to January to avoid starting sales near the holiday season. She says Mr. Calatrava’s involvement in designing different interiors for all of the units also has contributed to the delay.

Mr. Ruttenberg and another source say such regulatory delays aren’t unheard of in real estate developments, and that HUD does sometimes kick back paperwork to seek additional information.

The filing that Shelbourne must complete to begin marketing condos is required by the Interstate Land Sales Full Disclosure Act, originally enacted in 1968 to protect people from buying land that couldn’t be developed — the proverbial swampland in Florida.

The act now applies to condo developments with more than 100 units when those units are sold more than two years before they will be delivered, according to a HUD spokesman in Washington. He says Shelbourne made its registration filing Aug. 20, and that HUD aims to process such filings within 30 days.

A “sneak preview” for the media where interiors and pricing are to be unveiled and an invitation-only party is still scheduled for Sept. 26, one day before sales were supposed to begin. The spokeswoman says even with the sales delay, all other facets of the project are on track and that doubters should simply look at the construction as proof Mr. Kelleher will deliver.

“All you have to do is look at the site to be convinced,” the spokeswoman says. “There’s tangible construction going on every day.”
Alby Gallun contributed to this report.

[Alonzo-ny]

[B]all other facets of the project are on track and that doubters should simply look at the construction as proof Mr. Kelleher will deliver.

“All you have to do is look at the site to be convinced,” the spokeswoman says. “There’s tangible construction going on every day.”
Alby Gallun contributed to this report.

Im not convinced of this buildings possibilities yet, i hope it gets built because its a great looking tower and in along with the trade centre buildings will put the spotlight back on the US away from dubai's massive amount of crap. However it just seems very unlikely at the moment, im sure finaciers are tightening up and to build speculatively at a time when people will find it harder to get financing to buy a condo, never mind over a thousand of them, seems foolhardy. but i guess we will have to wait and see.

[SolarWind]

September 11, 2007
http://img523.imageshack.us/img523/3971/dsc0121hl5.jpg

September 14, 2007
http://img523.imageshack.us/img523/4594/dsc0098gh0.jpg

[spyguy999]

Not very accurate, but...
http://img233.imageshack.us/img233/5660/untitledyc1.jpg

[SolarWind]

September 21, 2007

http://img221.imageshack.us/img221/8767/dsc0039fi7.jpg

http://img444.imageshack.us/img444/373/dsc0037aw6.jpg

http://img261.imageshack.us/img261/3451/dsc0038yh8.jpg

http://img444.imageshack.us/img444/171/dsc0040qw4.jpg

[spyguy999]

http://chicagobusiness.com/cgi-bin/news.pl?id=26508

Condo atop Chicago Spire to list for $40 million
Sept. 26, 2007
By Andrew Schroedter

Prices at the Santiago Calatrava-designed twisting tower, which is to be the tallest building in the U.S. when it’s completed in 2011, will range from $750,000 to $40 million for a penthouse in the 150-story skyscraper.
...
the project’s marketing director says the units will average less than $2,000 per square foot.
...
Mr. Grace says an international sales launch will follow the Chicago opening with "dedicated exhibitions" in 14 other international cities, including Dublin, Moscow, Hong Kong and New York.

[spyguy999]

http://img454.imageshack.us/img454/3220/1190836281spireplazalz0.jpg
http://img454.imageshack.us/img454/3403/1190836394suiteview2pp4.jpg
http://img454.imageshack.us/img454/2555/1190836418spiresittingagq7.jpg
http://img454.imageshack.us/img454/4804/1190836434kitchendk2.jpg
http://img454.imageshack.us/img454/9838/1190836454spirebathroomnq1.jpg

[spyguy999]

AP photos
http://img241.imageshack.us/img241/3486/captefc88eb50d2043d1946ec5.jpg
http://img490.imageshack.us/img490/5649/capt896bc948a05e4344a02eo4.jpg
http://img490.imageshack.us/img490/6492/capt22958cc759db4789a46it1.jpg
http://img241.imageshack.us/img241/5949/capta962d22c14dc4f8c819ke4.jpg
http://img241.imageshack.us/img241/424/capt23d884fb02df4a848dfuq2.jpg
http://img395.imageshack.us/img395/1/capt1df9a9a339584298a6cne5.jpg

[spyguy999]

The website, www.thechicagospire.com, has been updated with new renderings and some great vids/animations.

A few key images:
http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/8308/cs4iw8.jpg
http://img69.imageshack.us/img69/7012/cs3ai1.jpg
http://img515.imageshack.us/img515/9803/01as1.jpg
http://img517.imageshack.us/img517/4608/02cb7.jpg
View from the 140th floor
http://img69.imageshack.us/img69/6812/panoramicaex2gi2.jpg

[DarrylStrawberry]

As a dedicated New Yorker, this building makes me absolutely green with envy. What a beautiful building.

[czsz]

Certainly puts London's dildo to shame...

[Jasonik]

^Haaa!! Not only broad shoulders...

[NoyokA]

I like this building, but you have to admit it looks like a giant joint.

[czsz]

It definitely no longer resembles a "spire"...what happened to the long antenna that was supposed to be attached, and the more dramatic taper toward it? Not as economically efficient?

[TREPYE]

A building of this magnitude and importance should have some sort of night flare to it. It would bea shame to just have this beauty of a building disappear in the the evening sky.



http://img515.imageshack.us/img515/9803/01as1.jpg
http://img517.imageshack.us/img517/4608/02cb7.jpg
View from the 140th floor

[Alonzo-ny]

those renderings look rather sub par for a tower of this standard.

[BrooklynRider]

It looks like a drill bit or some freaky dildo.

[DarrylStrawberry]

It looks like a drill bit or some freaky dildo.

At 24,000 inches long, very freaky indeed.

[TREPYE]

those renderings look rather sub par for a tower of this standard.

Who cares?? The building looks beautiful even as a crayola drawing. Unlike some renderings we got to see briefly of the new Penn Station by SOM. They beatifully, sharp, colorful, detailed renderings of garbage architecteture.

[Alonzo-ny]

True, was just an observation.

[Zephyr]

I like this building, but you have to admit it looks like a giant joint.

If you say so ... but that could be said of many buildings - what about Foster's formerly named Swiss Re at St. Mary's Ax, or a half-dozen skyscrapers in Vancouver, or a John Portman tower anywhere.

Perhaps Calatrava invited this "joint" comparison by saying that his initial inspiration was that of Native Americans' smoke on the Prairie ... campfire smoke that is.:)

[Jasonik]

I hadn't heard that... clever. His work tends to employ overlapping metaphors and symbolism, that's the sculptor in him.

[BVictor1]

These were taken 10/29/07
https://community.emporis.com/images/6/2007/10/569108.jpg

https://community.emporis.com/images/6/2007/10/569112.jpg

https://community.emporis.com/images/6/2007/10/569277.jpg

https://community.emporis.com/images/6/2007/10/569278.jpg

https://community.emporis.com/images/6/2007/10/569279.jpg

https://community.emporis.com/images/6/2007/10/569102.jpg

https://community.emporis.com/images/6/2007/10/569103.jpg

https://community.emporis.com/images/6/2007/10/569104.jpg

[macreator]

It definitely no longer resembles a "spire"...what happened to the long antenna that was supposed to be attached, and the more dramatic taper toward it? Not as economically efficient?

I too miss the spire. Without it, the building design really irks me. This tower's design really calls for a nice, thin spire.

So many towers lately are getting spires fixed on them, and yet when a building actually needs one, a spire is nowhere to be found :confused:

[SolarWind]

November 5, 2007

http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/3397/dscc0046jm1.jpg

[lofter1]

How deep do they have to go there ^ until they hit something good and solid to build upon?

[SolarWind]

How deep do they have to go there ^ until they hit something good and solid to build upon?
I think about 120 feet.

[SolarWind]

http://img146.imageshack.us/img146/1299/44654325jc6.th.jpg (http://img146.imageshack.us/my.php?image=44654325jc6.jpg) <-- click

[BVictor1]

I too miss the spire. Without it, the building design really irks me. This tower's design really calls for a nice, thin spire.

So many towers lately are getting spires fixed on them, and yet when a building actually needs one, a spire is nowhere to be found :confused:

Uh, NO-No and NO

It doesn't need a spire as currently designed. You don't need to throw a spire atop every supertall.

[BVictor1]

The company I work for has decided to follow the construction, and will occasionally come out with newsletters like this.

I present, "Spire Watch, Volume 2"

http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/695/97166201vy0.jpg

http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/8060/24074944xx1.jpg

http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/3543/48678456bu0.jpg

http://img219.imageshack.us/img219/9836/92469431tg7.jpg

[lofter1]

Excellent --

Thanks, BV1

[Alonzo-ny]

Seconded very nice!

But why did you guys put lift in inverted commas? Is that a "thing" now in the US to refer to an elevator as a "lift"

[spyguy999]

http://img519.imageshack.us/img519/2008/cs6oe4.jpg
http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/9288/cs7bb8.jpg
http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/5803/cs8ie3.jpg
http://img413.imageshack.us/img413/9871/cs9vj6.jpg

[BVictor1]

Harry photos from SSP compiled into a timelapse.

http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff1/imagestorage3/spire.gif

[BVictor1]

11/27/07
https://community.emporis.com/images/6/2007/11/574206.jpg

https://community.emporis.com/images/6/2007/11/574210.jpg

https://community.emporis.com/images/6/2007/11/574212.jpg

https://community.emporis.com/images/6/2007/11/574213.jpg

https://community.emporis.com/images/6/2007/11/574216.jpg

[MidtownGuy]

awe inspiring.

[pianoman11686]

I really (really) want to get a look at this development's financials. Where's all the money coming from?

[lbjefferies]

goofy and too skinny, but I think I like it. The question is, will the home of "The Bean" be happy to be the home of "The Vibrator."

[Jake]

Wow that footprint looks tiny for a building of this height. What are the plans for tuned mass dampers in this thing?

[ablarc]

Must be no FAR in Chicago.

[BVictor1]

I really (really) want to get a look at this development's financials. Where's all the money coming from?

What for?

The developer is using his own equity to finance what's been occuring thus far.

[pianoman11686]

How much does he have, and how long during the construction process does he plan on relying on it?

My reason for asking is, even mega-developers like Trump don't rely on using equity. Given the nature of the project, and a host of other external factors (namely, the drying up of liquidity in recent months and the first actual decline in housing prices in 13 years), I'm confused why there hasn't been more scrutiny of the financing plan.

[SolarWind]

December 3, 2007

http://img147.imageshack.us/img147/659/dscc0066sl9.jpg

http://img248.imageshack.us/img248/6151/dsc0067dk8.jpg

[bigjersey]

How much does he have, and how long during the construction process does he plan on relying on it?

My reason for asking is, even mega-developers like Trump don't rely on using equity. Given the nature of the project, and a host of other external factors (namely, the drying up of liquidity in recent months and the first actual decline in housing prices in 13 years), I'm confused why there hasn't been more scrutiny of the financing plan.

A neighborhood realtor told me that the majority of sales are foreigners, mainly from Ireland. He told me that this building has become a point of national pride for Ireland (the developer I believe is Irish) and that Chicago has become the city of choice for new money Irish looking for a american address. While this is one man's opinion, I can tell you that in Streeterville there are numerous Irishmen among my international group of neighbors. In fact, in downtown several new contemporary Irish restaurants/pubs have opened in the past two years to appeal to this new crowd of downtown residents. Maybe it's because of Daley, or maybe its because of history and culture, but I've definitely notices an Irish influx over the past few years in Chicago. I think sales are driven by the favorable exchange rate and an international influx into downtown Chicago.

[Alonzo-ny]

There arent enough investors in Ireland to fill this thing.

Also did you actually answer the question?

[bigjersey]

If I knew the specifics about the financing I would have included it in my answer. But yes, I answered it tangentially. When $1000 a square foot = 600 Euro a square foot, it makes sense that Europeans would be more willing to purchase in that building. Furthermore, if the building is sold to 25% Irish, I would consider that a large enough block to effect the financing of the building. That is why my answer is relevant.

[liberal84]

If I knew the specifics about the financing I would have included it in my answer. But yes, I answered it tangentially. When $1000 a square foot = 600 Euro a square foot, it makes sense that Europeans would be more willing to purchase in that building. Furthermore, if the building is sold to 25% Irish, I would consider that a large enough block to effect the financing of the building. That is why my answer is relevant.

:D

Someone with a brain.

[Alonzo-ny]

Furthermore, if the building is sold to 25% Irish, I would consider that a large enough block to effect the financing of the building.

If, but its not is it, matter of fact have any units been sold yet?

[londonlawyer]

A neighborhood realtor told me that the majority of sales are foreigners, mainly from Ireland. He told me that this building has become a point of national pride for Ireland (the developer I believe is Irish) and that Chicago has become the city of choice for new money Irish looking for a american address. While this is one man's opinion, I can tell you that in Streeterville there are numerous Irishmen among my international group of neighbors. In fact, in downtown several new contemporary Irish restaurants/pubs have opened in the past two years to appeal to this new crowd of downtown residents. Maybe it's because of Daley, or maybe its because of history and culture, but I've definitely notices an Irish influx over the past few years in Chicago. I think sales are driven by the favorable exchange rate and an international influx into downtown Chicago.

No one from Europe or anywhere else overseas regards Chicago as their "city of choice" in the US. By the same token, people from the US, South America, Asia, etc. will focus purchase of European urban properties almost exclusively on London. They're not buying in more regional cities like Franfurt or Milan. By the same token, foreigners will not buy in Chicago.

That Chicagoans actually think that this is being built is a sign as to how simple and naive they are.

[londonlawyer]

A neighborhood realtor told me that the majority of sales are foreigners, mainly from Ireland. He told me that this building has become a point of national pride for Ireland (the developer I believe is Irish) and that Chicago has become the city of choice for new money Irish looking for a american address. While this is one man's opinion, I can tell you that in Streeterville there are numerous Irishmen among my international group of neighbors. In fact, in downtown several new contemporary Irish restaurants/pubs have opened in the past two years to appeal to this new crowd of downtown residents. Maybe it's because of Daley, or maybe its because of history and culture, but I've definitely notices an Irish influx over the past few years in Chicago. I think sales are driven by the favorable exchange rate and an international influx into downtown Chicago.

No one from Europe or anywhere else overseas regards Chicago as their "city of choice" in the US. By the same token, people from the US, South America, Asia, etc. will focus purchase of European urban properties almost exclusively on London. They're not buying in more regional cities like Franfurt or Milan. By the same token, foreigners will not buy in Chicago.

That Chicagoans actually think that this being built is a sign as to how simple and naive they are.

P.S.: Some yokel "neighborhood realtor" is hardly a source of credible information.

[ablarc]

No one from Europe or anywhere else overseas regards Chicago as their "city of choice" in the US. By the same token, people from the US, South America, Asia, etc. will focus purchase of European urban properties almost exclusively on London. They're not buying in more regional cities like Franfurt or Milan.
No, but they sure as hell are buying into Paris and Madrid.



(Plus Tuscany and the Riviera.)

[spyguy999]

No one from Europe or anywhere else overseas regards Chicago as their "city of choice" in the US. By the same token, people from the US, South America, Asia, etc. will focus purchase of European urban properties almost exclusively on London. They're not buying in more regional cities like Franfurt or Milan. By the same token, foreigners will not buy in Chicago.

That Chicagoans actually think that this being built is a sign as to how simple and naive they are.

P.S.: Some yokel "neighborhood realtor" is hardly a source of credible information.

A fairly plain tower U/C in the South Loop by another Irish developer sold more than 20% of its units to Irish investors. A building in Lincoln Park started marketing in Ireland before Chicago and has sold a decent amount of units even though it's fairly expensive by Chicago standards.

Why exactly does this project bother you so much? Bitter about something (maybe Macklowe destroying your precious townhomes)?

On any other forum your inflammatory posts would be grounds for banning. I suppose I can't expect that on WNY, though.

[londonlawyer]

No, but they sure as hell are buying into Paris and Madrid.



(Plus Tuscany and the Riviera.)

I said urban properties (therefore places like Tiuscany were excluded), and I said "almost exclusively" to take into account purchases in places like Paris.

[londonlawyer]

....

Why exactly does this project bother you so much? Bitter about something (maybe Macklowe destroying your precious townhomes)?...

It doesn't bother me in the least bit. I just think that it's idiotic that people are going on and on under the illusion that this building is actually under construction when there is no evidence that the preparatory work at the site will lead to its construction.

[ablarc]

I said urban properties (therefore places like Tiuscany were excluded), and I said "almost exclusively" to take into account purchases in places like Paris.
School of Words? ;)

It doesn't bother me in the least bit. I just think that it's idiotic that people are going on and on under the illusion that this building is actually under construction when there is no evidence that the preparatory work at the site will lead to its construction.
They're just pushing earth around for amusement.





(Oh, and Tuscany includes urban Florence, while the Riviera includes urban Cannes, Nice and Monte Carlo.)

[Derek2k3]

It doesn't bother me in the least bit. I just think that it's idiotic that people are going on and on under the illusion that this building is actually under construction when there is no evidence that the preparatory work at the site will lead to its construction.

Ridiculous comment.

[Alonzo-ny]

Ridiculous comment.

No it isnt, I read a story of how Donald Trump told contractors at an Atlantic City casino site to push dirt from one side of the site to the other in order to give an impression to investors that all was well on the project, guess what, it worked.

Yours is a ridiculous comment.

[liberal84]

^^^^^ Your point would be? Still doesn't change how and what investors will invest in! Using Donald Trump as an example is only hurting yourself and yet you have the nerve to say others make ridiculous comments? Especially saying something that even you don't know is true. Not only do you look like a fool but you're also contradicting yourself.

[ZippyTheChimp]

Not only do you look like a fool... That's not his picture.

[NoyokA]

Why is everything Chicago such a hot-button issue? Who cares?

[Alonzo-ny]

That's not his picture.

What makes you sure Im not King George V?

[SolarWind]

Just playing around in the dirt...

http://lh6.google.com/harry.r.carmichael/R11GWuyisJI/AAAAAAAAQ5c/d_6b8Gu6e0I/P1150322.JPG?imgmax=800

Photo posted at SSP by harryc.

[BVictor1]

It doesn't bother me in the least bit. I just think that it's idiotic that people are going on and on under the illusion that this building is actually under construction when there is no evidence that the preparatory work at the site will lead to its construction.

There's no evidence that it won't either...

If, but its not is it, matter of fact have any units been sold yet?

Not that's been reported to the public. The "official" sales center opening is January 14th.

No it isnt, I read a story of how Donald Trump told contractors at an Atlantic City casino site to push dirt from one side of the site to the other in order to give an impression to investors that all was well on the project, guess what, it worked.

Yours is a ridiculous comment.

Well, we all know that Trump is a blowhard. Did that dirt moving actually include foundation work?

No one from Europe or anywhere else overseas regards Chicago as their "city of choice" in the US.

Maybe not to live(which seems to be your opinion), but as a place to invest in property, there have been many Irish investors and visitors as of late.


That Chicagoans actually think that this being built is a sign as to how simple and naive they are.

P.S.: Some yokel "neighborhood realtor" is hardly a source of credible information.

And no air-head, wise ass, seemingly know-it-all Chicago hater is hardly a source of valid/valuable information on the goings on of Chicago Real Estate, or anything else Chicago related for that matter.

Why is everything Chicago such a hot-button issue? Who cares?

Really! For some reason just like to pounce.

[Chiboy]

London Lawyer is incredibly ill-informed. Chicago's star has been rising internationally for quite some time now. Germans and Dutch have long been present and now apparently, Irish are joining them.

Is it really a surprise that some Europeans prefer to invest in a higher, less-expensive, condo replete with a parking slot (in order to enjoy the open roads of a continent-sized country) in a rising world city?

And regarding the Spire itself, it sits on a gigantic body of water, steps from yacht clubs/boat slips and a 40 mile long stretch of parkland/beaches.

Frankly, I'd be amazed if this thing wouldn't be filled with buyers from a 3 mile radius. If some Irish join the party, Slainte!

[Chiboy]

Apparently the sales pitch will include more than just Irish.....looks like English, Spanish, Russians, Arabs, South Africans, Indians, Singaporeans, Koreans, Chinese , and Japanese will be invited to invest in l'il 'ol Chicago

http://img91.imageshack.us/img91/2730/511975634694355al8.jpg

and apparently New Yorkers as well ;)

[ablarc]

^ What, no South Americans?

[SolarWind]

December 19, 2007

http://img179.imageshack.us/img179/6728/dsc0130us0.jpg

http://img213.imageshack.us/img213/2357/dsc0128fw2.jpg

[Jake]

There's something about this site that really amazes me. I'm not sure if it's the proximity to water which reminds me of the twin towers or the fact that it appears more like a construction of a bridge than of a building. Either way it's really interesting.

[londonlawyer]

The Chicagoans' reactions are quite funny. They're so sensitive.

[Alonzo-ny]

Nice hole.

[liberal84]

The Chicagoans' reactions are quite funny. They're so sensitive.

You're the same way! Anyone says one small, itty-bitty thing about your overrated city and your over-sized ego explodes. You're the ones always picking a fight. You expect us not to fight back? Grow up.

[MidtownGuy]

Well I'm looking forward to visiting your fair city when this magnificent tower is completed. In the warmer months of course;)

[ablarc]

You're the same way! Anyone says one small, itty-bitty thing about your overrated city and your over-sized ego explodes. You're the ones always picking a fight. You expect us not to fight back? Grow up.
Actually, growing up is learning to turn the other cheek.

[ZippyTheChimp]

Good point.

It's funny how entire city populations get boiled down to two groups of neighborhood kids.

[ZippyTheChimp]

Several posts deleted.

Please stop the bickering.

[PIZ]

Hello everyone! This is my first post, decided there is no better building being devoloped right now to comment on in the world then this one, I love it!!!

I been reading these forums for about 2 years now, finally decided to join. I look forward to engadging in some interesting discussions with you New Yorkers.


From Chicago to you all...
MERRY X-MAS New York!

[SolarWind]

December 26, 2007

http://img297.imageshack.us/img297/2505/dsc0129kq6.jpg

http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/7039/dscc0140in2.jpg

http://img297.imageshack.us/img297/5486/dsc0132ix0.jpg

[ablarc]

^ Is this a leaky basement waiting to happen?

[Chiboy]

No, that's simply Chicago improving itself. It's very much an unstoppable process.

[Alonzo-ny]

^ You need to relax

[Jasonik]

Chicago KNOWS how to relax. They do it unstoppably.

[arcman210]

what a deep and narrow hole. interesting, for such a tall building it has such a small footprint. does anyone know how deep they are going? bedrock, or driving pilings? its closeness to the water makes me think there is alot more work to be done to make sure the water pressure doesnt compromise the safety of the foundation.

or is the building also going to be constructed somehow outside of this footprint with pilings? could this hole be just for the core or something?

[Derek2k3]

Just the core.

[ASchwarz]

I had dinner and a long conversation last week in Bucktown with a Senior VP at one of Chicago's largest commercial brokerages. He's worked in Chicago real estate for 15 years and knows all the major players personally, including the previous site owners (Fordham Companies).

I head the whole inside scoop. This building won't ever come close to receiving financing, not even if it sold every unit for record prices. It's literally an impossible building, not because it's in Chicago or because the credit market sucks, but because it makes no financial sense, not even if you moved it to Dubai.

My friend thinks the foundation will be built and the developer will sell off the property to a major developer, who will develop a very tall conventional tower, roughly half the height of this proposal. Carley will make a profit and, more important, has made a name for himself globally, which isn't bad for a carpenter who rode the Irish economic miracle to prosperity.

[pianoman11686]

^Makes sense to me. I wonder how Calatrava feels about it.

[spyguy999]

You mean Kelleher. Carley is part of Fordham Co. and is now working on the Waldorf Astoria project.

I'm still skeptical about the financing myself, but I've learned to enjoy the construction for as long as it lasts (hopefully till the building is topped out). Only the people behind the scenes actually know what's going on.

But after thinking about it, the scenario where Kelleher sells the land after completing the foundation is only plausible if he cannot build the Spire.

You have to ask yourself these questions:

Why go through the hassle of tons of meetings for a 2000' building if you intend to build a 1000'?
Why build a complicated foundation with 7+ underground floors meant for a 2000' if you believe the site is destined for a 1000'?
Why assemble a world class team (Perkins + Will, Buro Happold, Thornton Tomasetti, STS, Savills, etc.) if you didn't wan't to build this tower?
I'm sure Calatrava's time isn't cheap, so why have him spend time refining the Spire and designing a park, plaza, and bridge, as well as the interiors of the building, which is quite unusual?
Why lease and furnish an entire floor in the NBC Tower strictly for the sales center?
Why spend money on marketing this thing worldwide: ads, international roadshow, a website where Bill Kurtis narrates?
Why buy a mansion in Chicago and move your family from Ireland?

I believe that he has reason to believe that he can build the Spire as is. Or this is one of the greatest hoaxes of all time. Otherwise it makes no sense why he spent so much money and time just to secure zoning for a regular 1000'.

[ZippyTheChimp]

That makes sense too.

Time will tell.

[Chiboy]

I think people are forgetting here the importance of the falling dollar. As the dollar tanks, the project becomes cheaper and cheaper for those dealing in Euros. Believe it or not, the current hosing slump is the perfect time to market a marquee tower to foreigners.

The trump card (no pun intended) of the Spire is that it will NEVER have its views compromised. Units in it are as solid a real estate investment as anything I've ever come across.

I heard estimates of construction costs of around 2,000,000,000. Given there are about 1190 units, they'd only need to sell for 2,000,000 on average to turn a profit. Given the tremendous growth in downtown Chicago, the location and uniqueness of the product, and the coming mass retirement of millions of Midwesterner baby boomers who are less and less interested in retiring to Florida (my parents included), I believe this project will sell out rather quickly.

I see no reason why this won't grow to become America's tallest tower.

[Chiboy]

and remember, the financing will be done in Europe. In the current market, I can;t see an American bank underwriting it, but it would be a very good opportunity for a European bank to make a rather wise bet on the US dollar.

Why? Because most think the current low level of the USD versus the Euro is only temporary and can't go much lower. This would be a perfect time for a European lender to lock in a major bet on the future health of the US economy and currency.

The sales center doesn't officially open until January 14th. My guess is that a financing deal will be announced rather soon thereafter.

[pianoman11686]

^Unless the construction costs will be paid for in Euros, that logic makes no sense.

I assume the materials, the labor, and all the related fees will be paid for in dollars. You said it yourself: the exchange rate probably can't go much lower, so if they get the loan in Euros today, they won't have nearly enough purchasing power a year or two from now, when the project gets underway.

[Chiboy]

Why is the logic flawed. If a European bank loans the developer 2 billion dollars worth of Euros (that would be what 1.3 billion or so currently) and is paid back the same 2 billion USD when the dollar goes higher, let's say to 1.20, then they will be paid back many more Euros. That is depending on a recovery in the dollar in the next decade or so.

I'm not an expert in international finance, but it seems if I am in charge of lending at a European bank, it might be a wise time to add some dollar-denominated loans/assets at this time, no?

[pianoman11686]

You're looking at it from the bank's point of view. I'm looking at it from the developer's.

[Chiboy]

well, at least the Germans are talking about it...

http://www.architekturvideo.de/?p=215

[londonlawyer]

The credit crunch has affected banks worldwide -- not just American ones.

Moreover, I have said repeatedly that Chicago is not a city that will attract scores of foreigners seeking second homes. As much as Chicago wants to be "international," it isn't. It has always been very, very cheap versus NY and London, and yet that hasn't resulted in foreign purchases on the level that NY and London see. The cheap dollar helps NY -- not Chicago.

[Chiboy]

Whatever dude. You are totally clueless. This building is designed by a European, is being developed by a European, is being financed by Europeans, and and will be marketed WORLDWIDE.

Your condescension to Chicago is pathetic. It is very much an internationally recognized world city.

I know Asians who are buying homes in the northwoods of Wisconsin. If you take a moment to avert your stare from your navel, you might be shocked by the globalization of the world beyond the Hudson....

http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/071224/real_estate_foreign_buyers.html?.v=3
Mia Wilkinson, a transplanted Englishwoman who works for Rubloff Residential Properties in Chicago, deals often with British and other foreign executives transferred to the U.S. for a few years. "Before, people would stay in corporate rentals," she said. "But now these same people are turning around and buying properties."
Wilkinson, who has been in the U.S. six years, has bought property in Chicago herself.
The expansion of foreign real estate investment in the U.S. also means that areas that once were not popular with international buyers are now receiving interest. Doug Aitkin, who works for North Carolina's World Trade Center, said the Research Triangle area -- comprising the cities of Durham, Raleigh and Chapel Hill -- is now getting inquiries from French and Scandinavian home buyers, a new phenomenon.

[Chiboy]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21739273/

For investors from countries like Ireland, the exchange rate is providing a boost in spending power, said Phillip Hegarty, the sales director for Castleroc Estates, a Dublin, Ireland-based firm that works with Irish investors to buy residential and commercial real estate in the United States."It's an enticing investment," Hegarty said.
Hegarty said there is plenty of demand for investment in locations like Chicago and New York, and often that demand exceeds supply.
But New York and Chicago are not the only locations likely to provide popular options for foreign investors. Places like Florida and California are likely to see a surge in foreign investment.

[londonlawyer]

Whatever dude. You are totally clueless....

You're comical, kid. I am an extremely successful lawyer who has lived and traveled around the world. Moreover, unlike you, I have a vast knowledge of finance, and I can tell you that this project will not get funded.

[antinimby]

What this project does show is that Chicago is able to do things New York can't.

For example, in New York there would be no way in hell you can build a 2000-foot tower right next to a residential low-rise like this:

http://img297.imageshack.us/img297/2505/dsc0129kq6.jpg

...even the NIMBYs will laugh at you because they know you wouldn't be able to build something that large in a similar situation in NY.

Now, whether it will get built is a different matter but that has more to do with financing and economics and not because Chicago wouldn't allow, something that NY wouldn't be able to do.

[Alonzo-ny]

How many 2000' towers has Chicago proposed now? I think this is the 3rd or 4th. it doesnt have financing, everyone would have the right to go on about it if it had the financial backing but it doesnt.

Id very much like to see this get built but I dont like hearing everyone talk so surely about something so uncertain.

[Chiboy]

You're comical, kid. I am an extremely successful lawyer who has lived and traveled around the world. Moreover, unlike you, I have a vast knowledge of finance, and I can tell you that this project will not get funded.

Whatever, I own my own business in East Asia and have clients from over 60 countries. I travel back and forth to Chicago many times a year and see with my own eyes what's happening there.

And despite your vast knowledge of finance (I do consulting work for several banks in Asia), you are still an ass and represent the worst qualities of New York, which thankfully, have been diminishing greatly in the last 10 years or so.

You are almost retro I suppose....and totally clueless about Chicago's global stature.

[Alonzo-ny]

Im sure your childish tone goes down a storm at the office.

[slapter]

so I'm googling information tonite on the Chicago Spire and one of the links leads me to here.

And what do I see?

londonlawyer, lol.

How many Internet Forums have you been banned from? I think the classic was when you where banned for bitching about Chicago non stop and where banned for trolling on an International Forum about Chicago. Then you re registered under another named, busted and banned then again and again.

sooooo let me get this straight, 5 years of non stop bitching about Chicago, LMAO.

Remember teling me I enjoy sticking gerbils, because I'm from Chicago, guess where?

adios

oh btw, I am extremely impressed with you job as a highly successful lawyer :eek:

just to let you know I own everything.

[ZippyTheChimp]

Last warning.

[pianoman11686]

I'm not an expert in international finance, but it seems if I am in charge of lending at a European bank, it might be a wise time to add some dollar-denominated loans/assets at this time, no?

Whatever, I own my own business in East Asia and have clients from over 60 countries. I travel back and forth to Chicago many times a year and see with my own eyes what's happening there.

And despite your vast knowledge of finance (I do consulting work for several banks in Asia), you are still an ass and represent the worst qualities of New York, which thankfully, have been diminishing greatly in the last 10 years or so.

You're not an expert in international finance, yet you do consulting work for "several banks"? Just what kind of consulting do you do, exactly?

Based on my reading of your posts about engaging in exchange rate arbitrage to make the Chicago Spire financing more lucrative, I'm inclined to think you're simply - for lack of a better word - trolling here. No bank advising a client on a deal this substantial would recommend Euro-denominated financing, if it truly believed the Euro would decline in value relative to the dollar. That would result in potentially hundreds of millions of dollars in extra costs for the developer.

[Cytoskeleton]

Wait, I thought this was a forum to discuss the Chicago Spire.

I'm inclined to think you're simply - for lack of a better word - trolling here.

Yeah, clearly Chi's enthusiasm for the project constitutes trolling in this forum, which as far as I can tell is now largely meant for New Yorkers to naysay and dump on Chicago. Or, am I misreading it? I must say, I too have seen londonlawyer's bile in action elsewhere, and am mystified why that guy's allowed anywhere near any forum about anything Chicago.

Here's an attempt to redirect things a bit.

I think people focusing on the admittedly daunting financials are missing the point. In my view (and, I suspect Kelleher and Calatrava's) the Spire is a compelling attempt to see if art, high quality architecture, siting, and truly great branding can make the math work in the medium and long run. I mean, Calatrava's designed this thing down to the doorknobs. Skyscrapers (at least great ones) are often mostly about image and dreams - see, for example, the Empire State Building. Totally commercially inviable when built, but a testament to NY's collective willpower.

Look, even the surliest and most pariochial New Yorkers should be gunning for this to succeed. If it does, it will establish that great architecture actually sells big. And with a few recent exceptions (Nouvel tower near MoMA, anyone?), NY's architecture has been thuddingly average of late. Chicago's too - Trump tower will be decent, but not truly great. Why? The aesthetic of the bottom line. Let's see if great buildings can redefine this.

BTW, skyscraperpage has a great Spire forum with almost daily photos, including one yesterday showing the core as a frozen skating rink! Brrr!

[RandySavage]

^ I'm a New York guy, but I like Chicago and really hope this project comes through for the exact reason you stated. One of the few visionary projects in the U.S. right now.

Oh, and I would add the new WTC to your list of exceptions. As individual towers, people have their opinions, but taken as a whole, who can argue that the WTC is anything less than the largest and most spectacular American skyscraper project since the originals.

[BrooklynRider]

I'm excited by this project too, but I do agree that it seems a longshot to get built. Supertalls don't seem to meet with the same scrutiny in Chicago as they do in New York. Perhaps, that is just my perception. However, the proposed towers do get a lot of nationwide press only to fizzle out. I guess we'll find out if they are just pushing dirt around or building the tower. I hope it is the latter of the two.

[Cytoskeleton]

^ Oh, and I would add the new WTC to your list of exceptions.

That's another example of vision overcoming gravity, although of a different kind. I'm not sure the ensemble will have a form that burns itself into the memory (like the Spire, Sears, Burj Dubai, Petronas, Chrysler, the old WTC..). I'm willing to keep an open mind, though. I still don't have a good gestalt of the whole thing, and have probably been unduly put off by all the hoo-ha.

Talk about a fraught site - I definitely respect the present players, and making it come together must be like running uphill with a motorbike strapped to your back. It seems like everyone has some shiny memory of the old buildings that the new ones need to measure up to, myself a great afternoon spent shrooming on the observation decks of 2 WTC...

[Cytoskeleton]

I guess we'll find out if they are just pushing dirt around or building the tower. I hope it is the latter of the two.

Indeed, and likewise.

I think it's unlikely to be just dirt pushing and that it's more of a damn-the-torpedoes approach. They've done a lot already - I check the site out regularly (it's on one of my running routes), and Case foundations has made unbelievable progress. This includes sinking a lot of large caissons in the outer ring, driving the sheet piling and digging out the core, building secant walls, and putting in two very expensive on/off ramps to Lake Shore Drive. This site is just a lot better than those of some other Chicago projects that have evaporated, and there aren't any more like it, so something will materialize - put another way, they're building a tower, but is it THE tower?

...and as for supertalls getting less scrutiny in Chicago than NY, brother, you said a mouthful. The City's (that is to say, Hizzoner Mayor Daley's) attitude is definitely "Go for it, and screw the NIMBYs!" - Trump Tower, for example, was basically willed to be by Daley. Sure, there was some sort of design approval process - but once Daley ordained it, well, it was all over but the shouting.

[Chiboy]

Based on my reading of your posts about engaging in exchange rate arbitrage to make the Chicago Spire financing more lucrative, I'm inclined to think you're simply - for lack of a better word - trolling here. No bank advising a client on a deal this substantial would recommend Euro-denominated financing, if it truly believed the Euro would decline in value relative to the dollar. That would result in potentially hundreds of millions of dollars in extra costs for the developer.


Umm...I said dollar-denominated. If I am holding lotsa Euros and want to hedge against a future decline in the Euro....I exchange them for dollars now, and lend it to some real estate developer in the states.....

And eventually, I am paid back dollars over the next decade or so. Said dollars are hypothetically worth more than when I lent them, in my home currency (Euros)....

It's the same logic that will encourage foreigners to invest in this project. Is that so complicated to understand?

[pianoman11686]

Umm...I said dollar-denominated. If I am holding lotsa Euros and want to hedge against a future decline in the Euro....I exchange them for dollars now, and lend it to some real estate developer in the states.....

You said:

"If a European bank loans the developer 2 billion dollars worth of Euros (that would be what 1.3 billion or so currently) and is paid back the same 2 billion USD when the dollar goes higher, let's say to 1.20, then they will be paid back many more Euros."

I said I assume the construction costs wouldn't be paid out in Euros, so unless there's another aspect, the developer would lose out if the dollar appreciated. He'd be better off getting a loan in dollars.

And eventually, I am paid back dollars over the next decade or so. Said dollars are hypothetically worth more than when I lent them, in my home currency (Euros)....

It's the same logic that will encourage foreigners to invest in this project. Is that so complicated to understand?

Look, I understand the logic of what you're saying. What I'm saying is that a hypothetical European bank would not be making that kind of judgment. Investing 2 billion dollars in a currency hedge is chump change. ForEx trades amount to trillions of dollars/Euros/pounds/yen every day, so for you to make this out as some kind of special opportunity for a bank to make extra dough... it just sounded very amateurish to me. That's why I called you out on it.

You're right about encouraging foreigners to purchase units in the building, though. There's a lot of free capital still floating around overseas, and almost every US asset looks like it's on the clearance rack right now.

[Chiboy]

I figured anyone would understand that a cross-border loan also implies changing currencies. A currency hedge and a loan are very different things. But sometimes a loan, if done successfully, can become a de facto currency hedge.

[SolarWind]

January 9, 2008

http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/6356/dsc0098eo8.jpg

http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/9013/dsc0076bo5.jpg

[lofter1]

methinks it's a tad off-center :cool:

[BrooklynRider]

Anyone recall any other buildings that started with a circular hole?

[jet cm]

Anyone (http://picasaweb.google.com/jetcm101/RiverEast/photo#5154200973933289746Anyone) recall any other buildings that started with a circular hole?

Chicago 1999

a few more here: http://picasaweb.google.com/jetcm101/RiverEast

[Cytoskeleton]

Anyone recall any other buildings that started with a circular hole?

One Museum Park West, a ~50 story tower that complements an almost finished >700 ft, ~65-story tower to the east, is being started with a circular core.


http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=59102&page=94

about halfway down the page. you can see them using a similar jig as the one just used for the Spire's core (hmmmmm.)

These are part of a big boom in the district just south of Grant Park, right next to the lake. The almost-finished tower is pretty cool.

[PIZ]

Sale center is opening tomorrow! According to the sales center, they already have a bid on the $40 million dollar top spot! And the bid comes from a Chicagoan!:)

[JCMAN320]

Great to see this project moving forward. It is excellent. Cyto don't back down from the naysayers on this forum. Just keep standing up for your city and show em up by showing them that the project is moving forward. NY bias can be very narrow minded, but let it deter you in promoting your city or this great project.

[Cytoskeleton]

Great to see this project moving forward. It is excellent. Cyto don't back down from the naysayers on this forum. Just keep standing up for your city and show em up by showing them that the project is moving forward. NY bias can be very narrow minded, but let it deter you in promoting your city or this great project.

Naysaying from NY? Oh, I thought those were rat farts...

Look, this project is going to happen. And in the end, getting it done will be a great thing for NYC. It's frustrating to see the world's greatest city sink into a self-congratulatory swamp of architectural mediocrity. NY has always needed a kick in the ass to go for greatness...(Knicks tickets, anyone?)

NY naysaying never bothers me, but it more or less always follows the same script and ends up making these forums sort of dull. It's mildly interesting to see how far back this goes - check out the history of the 1892 Chicago Columbian Exposition (World's Fair). This is when NY'ers gave Chicago the nickname "The Windy City" (and you thought that referred the weather?).

By the way, if anyone's interested, a number of construction workers currently on the job on highrises in Chicago have started to contribute to skyscraperpage forums. Now THAT's interesting! See: http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=99367&page=115 (posts by Aqua Plumber).

[Scraperfannyc]

According to Forbes, NYC and Chicago are very close when it comes to the number of visitors and hotel rooms booked.

4. New York City, N.Y.
44 million visitors; 23.9 million rooms sold; score: 3.52

No surprises here. Year after year, the Big Apple takes an ample slice of the U.S.-visitor pie. In 2006, 44 million guests called on Times Square, the Met, the Empire State Building and New York's myriad other cultural and commercial draws.

5. Chicago, Ill.
41.3 million (2005); 24.8 million rooms sold; score 3.47

More than 41 million non-residents breezed into the Windy City last year to enjoy the multitude of cultural, business and recreational centers on the shore of Lake Michigan. The largest city in the Midwest, Chicago has long served as the area's unofficial capital and is a major U.S. transportation hub.

Source: http://www.forbestraveler.com/best-lists/most-visited-us-cities-slide-15.html?partner=playlist&thisSpeed=20000

[ablarc]

1. Las Vegas, Nev.
38.9 million visitors; 40 million rooms sold. Total weighted score: 4.48
Hmmm ... more rooms sold than actual visitors. What does this mean? Do they track individual visitors and record their return visits? Does no one take his family? Do some individuals absent-mindedly book more than one room per person? Are Forbes' statistics believable?

[Zephyr]

I've often wondered if this thread is about Chicago Spire, Calatrava, Chicago ... or something else entirely. :confused:
.

[Scraperfannyc]

Hmmm ... more rooms sold than actual visitors. What does this mean? Do they track individual visitors and record their return visits? Does no one take his family? Do some individuals absent-mindedly book more than one room per person? Are Forbes' statistics believable?

I assume some of the hotel bookings are not by visitors in this case. Goes to show what society prioritizes. Las Vegas is a city built for making a quick buck, entertainment and good food.

Good architecture nevertheless is one of the biggest things that tourists visit, such as the empire state building and the former WTC.

The spire will not have an observatory, which may annoy the tourists in this case.

[Cytoskeleton]

The spire will not have an observatory, which may annoy the tourists in this case.

Actually, the building will reportedly have a "meditation room" on the 151st floor that is RESIDENTS ONLY. This should help bring in buyers of the lower-down units - world's tallest yoga studio? Mingling with the uber-rich 2000 + ft above the deck? Not having a public-accesss observation floor is, IMO, a smart move (as is the absence of a hotel). This thing is essentially the world's tallest vertical gated community, and it's being marketed very much as such. The whole "private oasis in a city" thing. Who wants to have invading tourists traipsing in and out of your magnificent private tower, maybe finding a way to jump out the windows?

I'm trying to figure the numbers on this. As discussed on other pages, I think they only need to sell half of it at $1400/sq. ft. - assume about 30% private equity and US$ ~1.5 billion construction costs. The rest would be profit. I think this in part drives the height of the building up - even ignoring land costs, does building supertall really give you an economy of scale (1 150 story bldg costs less than 3 50 story bldgs)?

[Zephyr]

From another website ...

By my very rough calculations, with 30% private equity, a selling price of $1400/sqft, and a construction cost of $1.5bn, then selling about half the units would allow for completion of construction (anything more is profit, ignoring land costs), so from a financing perspective they probably need substantially less than half of the square footage sold to get construction loans to finish.

Either like minds or the same mind - dunno.

All I can say is that this building is going on at a steady pace in a currently depressed market in Chicago, and from the outset this latest developer has had eyes on the international clientele. It will take some time to sort out where things will go from a financial standpoint - not one day when formal sales began, the next few months, or perhaps beyond that. There still is a strong unwavering commitment that is palpable there, and a boundlessly intriguing project that is evident to many.

Since I have worked as a former sub-contractor on two Calatrava projects in the US, including this one, and currently live in Chicago although not a native, I prefer personally to just concern myself with where this building is at in its long-term construction plan, only glancing at that high-risk capitalisation that is more typical of Europe than America. Looks to me that all is "full steam ahead" for a project that will inevitable ride on choppy seas in the months, and maybe years ahead.

[Cytoskeleton]

From another website ...



Either like minds or the same mind - dunno.


Like minds. I'm really interested in the financial aspects of this project, and whether they're unique or a useful model for other developments. I follow Skyscraperpage's Spire forum as well. VivaLFuego's numbers mirror my own back-of-the-envelope figuring, and I thought it worthwhile to post them here for feedback. Plus, I really like to plagarize.

As for the pace of things, I've been watching the foundation work, and it seems to be moving at a breakneck pace. Those CASE people obviously ain't getting paid by the hour!

[Zephyr]

... I'm really interested in the financial aspects of this project, and whether they're unique or a useful model for other developments.

This financial model is not unique, it has been employed in Ireland, France and Germany in recent years for select projects, but all for far less sizeable ventures than this one.

The fact that Garrett Kelleher / Shelbourne became one of the practisioners of this model in Europe before taking on this Calatrava is worth noting. Also noteworthy is the early involvement of Anglo Irish, also experienced in high-risk financing.

[Cytoskeleton]

The fact that Gerrit Kelleher / Shelbourne became one of the practisioners of this model in Europe before taking on this Calatrava is worth noting. Also noteworthy is the early involvement of Anglo Irish, also experienced in high-risk financing.

cooooool. relevant specifics welcome.

[Zephyr]

cooooool. relevant specifics welcome.

Some of the detail you seek will be on that SSP - Chicago Spire thread, especially in the iteration that preceded the current U/C version of that thread (accessible through Archives).

Two or three of us spent some time referencing financial materials that went as far back as the 1990s, dealing with the so-called European Model, which starts oftentimes with the assumption of debt on an existing project, then proceeds to seeding the initial construction with developer/venture capital to generate sales during the construction phase, and subsequently drawing a second phase of capital investments that recovers the seeding, and ultimately jump-starts the project toward a more stable route to completion.

Since that information was repeated over-and-over again as the same question kept resurfacing on the Chicago thread, and will probably do so again, just wait if you don't want to investigate.

Such banks as Anglo Irish and Deka have been involved in these scenarios in Europe, and have been mostly successful when associated with certain developers that are adept at knowing when and how to apply this strategy. Garrett Kelleher is one of those types of developers.

[BVictor1]

01/15/08
https://community.emporis.com/images/6/2008/01/586095.jpg

https://community.emporis.com/images/6/2008/01/586096.jpg

https://community.emporis.com/images/6/2008/01/586101.jpg

[NoyokA]

Only in Chicago and Dubai would a 2,000 foot building rise next to a highway, a river, and some three-storey townhouses.

[BVictor1]

My photos from today's visit to the sales center.
https://community.emporis.com/images/6/2008/01/586520.jpg
View to the south

https://community.emporis.com/images/6/2008/01/586491.jpg

https://community.emporis.com/images/6/2008/01/586515.jpg
View to the northeast

https://community.emporis.com/images/6/2008/01/586504.jpg

https://community.emporis.com/images/6/2008/01/586511.jpg

:slob:
https://community.emporis.com/images/6/2008/01/586498.jpg

A few things:
-The building is going to be clad with stainless steel. The glass is going to have a very very light blue tint so that birds will be able to see it and not fly into the structure. The tint will basically not be noticible.
-The core area is going to excavated about 75' down.
-The top residential floor is the duplex on floor 141 - 142
-The garbage chute is going to seperate materials so that items can be recycled.
-The maple ceiling that you've seen in the lobby will actually undulate. The wood will be attached to some type of mechanism that will move like a wave does across water. The wood will be jointed together so that it pivots.

[Cytoskeleton]

post deleted by me. tiresome subject.

[lofter1]

Nice ^

Even better: If you scroll this page up & down medium slow then the building actually looks like it's cork-screwing :D

[Cytoskeleton]

My photos from today's visit to the sales center.
https://community.emporis.com/images/6/2008/01/586504.jpg


Amazing pics, man.

Maybe they could put some models of your boats in ogden slip?

this thing is going to cause some SERIOUS traffic accidents on northbound LSD - right as you come around the corner from grant park, it's just going to come out of nowhere...

[SolarWind]

January 18, 2008

http://img252.imageshack.us/img252/2761/dsc0010md0.jpg

http://img340.imageshack.us/img340/5396/dsc0003cj0.jpg