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TomAuch
August 5th, 2005, 08:58 PM
This is just a trial balloon I'm floating, so I'll give you a caveat....

Hudson County, the county in NJ that contains Jersey City, Secaucus, Weehawken, and Hoboken, is similar to the other five boroughs culturally and financially. When you are in Jersey City, you feel like you are in Downtown Brooklyn, only without subways. When you are in parts of Hoboken, you feel like you are in the Village, only things are slightly cheaper. Here is my proposal: make Hudson County a part of New York State, and have New York City annex it as a sixth borough. I doubt this will ever happen, but I believe that NYC and the residents of the Hudson County cities would benefit greatly as a result.

Jeffreyny
August 5th, 2005, 10:28 PM
I've always considered that area NYC's 6th borough. It's more of a borough than Staten Island. The cities in NJ that you mention depend on NYC for their livelyhood. Most professionals who live there work in the city.
They are very much directly connected to the city in the same way Newark Liberty Airport is 1 of the 3 NYC. airports.
If they weren't bordering the city they'd be industrial river towns with a depressed economy.

ablarc
August 7th, 2005, 10:44 AM
A proposed land swap: Hudson County for Staten Island?

TomAuch
August 7th, 2005, 12:15 PM
Works with me :D

Dynamicdezzy
August 7th, 2005, 09:17 PM
It would make for a much easier subway connection to staten island incorporating hudson county. having the same lines run through hudson county to staten island much like manhattan and the bronx. It would be nice to have a train run express from brooklyn (and/or queens) to hudson county and then have it go into manhattan that way it would (forcefully) be incorporated into the rest of the city. The city pretty much flows in the same direction the subway does. If i implement a new subway line in queens (or bk) that will take me express into the Manhattan (even though it goes to former NJ 1st) and it takes me just as much time if not less than taking a current line directly into the city then it would be worth using. As long as the city is the final destination ppl will get on, just as long as this "New" borough gets tied in. Just an opinion.

asohn
August 8th, 2005, 12:22 AM
First, Hudson County should merge into one city.

If it were to do this, it would have a population of 600,000 (19 in USA) and a population densiy of 13,043/sq mi. - 3rd in the USA, below New York (26,401) and San Francisco (16,633) and above Chicago (12,749).

Ninjahedge
August 8th, 2005, 09:14 AM
First, Hudson County should merge into one city.

If it were to do this, it would have a population of 600,000 (19 in USA) and a population densiy of 13,043/sq mi. - 3rd in the USA, below New York (26,401) and San Francisco (16,633) and above Chicago (12,749).

Nice thought, but not practical.

The demographics from these towns are as different as night and day, with a yuppie gentrification seeping in as the condos and "luxury" domiciles are built anywhere that is either close enough to se ethe city, or walk to a method of transportation to the city.

Also, the corruption is VERY stron in all of these districts, and will take generations to either remedy, or at least get to the same level as everywhere else.

I do wish there were more direct lines to areas like Brooklyn from Hoboken, but given the record of the NYC Transit system and the fact that the Path trains have been doing remarkably well in comparison, I would NOT try to merge them in any way shape or form...

It would be nice, however, to extend the PATH lines past things like the WTC and 33rd streets.

Having an extension to Brooklyn (say the Heights, or Prospect Park), and/or up past 33rd street to Central Park would be incredible.

asohn
August 8th, 2005, 07:13 PM
Nice thought, but not practical.

The demographics from these towns are as different as night and day, with a yuppie gentrification seeping in as the condos and "luxury" domiciles are built anywhere that is either close enough to se ethe city, or walk to a method of transportation to the city.

Also, the corruption is VERY stron in all of these districts, and will take generations to either remedy, or at least get to the same level as everywhere else.

I really don't think that the differences between the towns are so drastic. In fact, they're probably less drastic than the differences between different neighborhoods in Manhattan. Don't you think it's impractical for towns like Guttenberg and West New York to have seperate governments when they are part of a continuous urban area? If anything, the current situation is impractical.

JCMAN320
August 8th, 2005, 07:27 PM
I think Guttenberg and West New York should merge with North Bergen and Union City should merge with Jersey City and become and extension of the Heights. Union City is the youngest city in the state it was formed in 1925 as a merger of the smaller municipalities of West Hoboken and Union Hill. When JC was formed and they voted for annexing other towns. Union Hill wanted to join the newly formed city of JC in 1838 but it wasn't contiguous because West Hoboken was next to the JC Heights and they voted to be independent. The only reason I say consolidate these cities is because they don't have much history and they have small governments that would be served better by the larger municipalites. Also they don't have much history compared to Bayonne, Jersey City, Hoboken, and Weehawken which are all rich with deep history going back to the 1660s

asohn
August 8th, 2005, 07:53 PM
I think Guttenberg and West New York should merge with North Bergen and Union City should merge with Jersey City and become and extension of the Heights. Union City is the youngest city in the state it was formed in 1925 as a merger of the smaller municipalities of West Hoboken and Union Hill. When JC was formed and they voted for annexing other towns. Union Hill wanted to join the newly formed city of JC in 1838 but it wasn't contiguous because West Hoboken was next to the JC Heights and they voted to be independent. The only reason I say consolidate these cities is because they don't have much history and they have small governments that would be served better by the larger municipalites. Also they don't have much history compared to Bayonne, Jersey City, Hoboken, and Weehawken which are all rich with deep history going back to the 1660s

Well, Jersey City is itself an amalgamation of other smaller cities. Even if all the cities were to combine into one, couldn't they still retain their individual identities and histories?

debris
August 9th, 2005, 04:05 PM
Nah, you're not getting greedy enough. I'd make a play for Newark, Irvington, Orange, East Orange, and possibly Elizabeth as well. The suburbanites in Essex have been whispering secession for years, and I think they'd let it go. Only problem is, the urban areas in NJ are the power base for the Democratic party. That's why its not practical, the rest of the Dems would never allow it. You'd have to wait for the Republicans to control all levels of power in NJ with veto proof margins.

I've floated a similar solution before: simply roll up the MTA into the Port Authority. Then you could run all the subways into NJ you want (I'd start with the 7 and 6 connecting to the uptown and WTC PATH, and the E train to JC, Bayonne, and Staten Island, for starters).

BrooklynRider
August 9th, 2005, 04:48 PM
I'll secondthe motion to trade Staten Island for at least Hoboken.

Ninjahedge
August 9th, 2005, 04:55 PM
So long as we get the smoking ban, I am all for it... ;)

macmini
August 9th, 2005, 06:38 PM
I love New York but why does everyone assume that everyone wants to be apart of New York. I like to think of the NJ Goldcoast to be the mecca of NJ like NY all the boroughs are great but Manhattan is King. TomAuch how dare you insult the Village by comparing it to that Hellhole known as Hoboken. An BrooklynRider you can have Hoboken but you have to keep Staten Island.

Ninjahedge
August 10th, 2005, 09:46 AM
I love New York but why does everyone assume that everyone wants to be apart of New York. I like to think of the NJ Goldcoast to be the mecca of NJ like NY all the boroughs are great but Manhattan is King. TomAuch how dare you insult the Village by comparing it to that Hellhole known as Hoboken. An BrooklynRider you can have Hoboken but you have to keep Staten Island.


Hellhole?

Excuse me, this is one guy living in that "hellhole". When was the last time you were here? If it has not been in the past 10 years I would shut my mouth and take an oh-so-expensive $1.50 trip across the river to take a look.

It sounds like you are going on the word of others, or ancient history, rather than what is currently true.

macmini
August 10th, 2005, 11:17 AM
Ninjahedge!!!! I live in Jersey City and I been to Hoboken plenty and I still Hate! Hate! Hoboken. Mostly the poeple everyone has a stick up thier a#* you people really need to get over yourselves.

estryker
May 1st, 2006, 04:30 PM
oh screw it . . . why not just chop New Jersey in two, give the lower half to Pennsylvania and the upper half to New York, make Hudson County, Bergen County and Newark boroughs of New York City. merge the Port Authority, MTA, and NJT while we're at it, so that they can be finally forced to work together successfully. Imagine the Regional Plan Association in charge of the NYC metro area's development and transit planning? Ah. . .utopia!

After all New Jersey was nothing more than an accident of history, a land gift from King James II to to two friends who had been loyal to him through the course of the English Civil War. The Deleware and Hudson rivers were completely arbitrary natural boundaries. Before that, present-day Jersey city was settled by the Dutch (1630s), like present-day New York . . . . and parts of southwestern New Jersey were settled by Swedes (mid-1600s), like southeastern Pennsylvania.

Now we're burdened with all the crap that comes from abitrarily drawn political boundaries and the petty squablling and posturing that happened across them.

Oh well . . . now, back to reality . . .

OmegaNYC
May 28th, 2006, 03:14 AM
I think it would be cool to consolidate some of the ultra-small towns, that NJ is filled with. And merge them into a larger city. Example, all of lets say, Passaic County, would merge into Paterson ( or just the lower part of the county which is more urbanized then the North). Hudson can be Jersey City, Essex could be Newark, etc. NJ is a state that is lacking when it comes to major large cities (though JC is taking that title away) NJ is less then 10,000 sq miles, yet it has a high number is cities and towns (over 560 I believe) However, NJ has a very strong home-rule laws, and consolidationof towns will NEVER happen. Ahhh... a man has the right to dream.... :p

ablarc
May 28th, 2006, 08:49 AM
Now we're burdened with all the crap that comes from abitrarily drawn political boundaries and the petty squablling and posturing that happened across them...
...like Africa. Colonial powers created the borders to suit themselves, but ignored tribal and other more viable lines of demarcation.

JCexpert558
August 10th, 2007, 05:40 PM
How large would Jersey city be if it became Hudson County.:confused:

ablarc
August 10th, 2007, 08:42 PM
^ Well, how large is Hudson County?

JCMAN320
August 11th, 2007, 02:43 AM
Well the population would be approx 610,000 people on an area of 62 sq miles making it larger than Boston if JC were to merge.

JCexpert558
August 11th, 2007, 10:54 AM
If it did happen would it be bigger than Boston in industry to?

JCexpert558
August 11th, 2007, 11:09 AM
Also I bet that someone could make it happen and turn Jersey City into Hudson Borough. Also with all that room Jersey Citys rank in biggest cities would go up because it would have more room and that would make the population bigger, and the Metro area.

JCexpert558
August 11th, 2007, 12:26 PM
I found out that they dont count the city by total area 62sq/162km2 it's couted by the land 47sq/120km2. So if hudson County became Jersey City, we would be smaller than boston MA

LocoAko
August 12th, 2007, 05:54 PM
I absolutely love the idea of having Hudson as a borough, including possibly Newark. Whether or not we kick out SI is a whole other issue. :D

But while we're on it - what is the actual chance of this happening realistically? I know we all like to talk about it, but aren't things so set and developed by now that it'd be virtually impossible to do this, especially since it's not 100% necessary?

And extending the PATH past 33rd and WTC... what a dream! :rolleyes:

JCexpert558
August 13th, 2007, 10:05 AM
It could happen if the City council of Jersey City would allow it.

MikeKruger
August 13th, 2007, 01:31 PM
I'd like a train like the PATH running from the Hoboken terminal under Hoboken to Port Authority and replacing the 126 bus :)

LeCom
August 21st, 2007, 11:26 AM
The "sixth" borough? Sixth after what, Staten Island? Hudson is much more of a boro than Staten Island is or will be in any near futute. If anything, Staten Island is the sixth borough.

Too bad we all know this topic of discussion is just a pipe dream and likely won't come true for years to come, if ever.