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Law & Order
October 6th, 2005, 05:25 PM
CNN: BREAKING NEWS

New York City is raising threat alert level for subway system, CNN has learned. AP reports a "credible security threat" as reason.

evil_synth
October 6th, 2005, 07:19 PM
Did they say anything specific against the metro-north communter rail lines? Are they a target too? Will those lines be checked as the subway?

lofter1
October 6th, 2005, 07:23 PM
Ididn't hear about this until I got home @ 7PM...

I entered Herald Square station about 6:30 PM -- no cops, dogs, nothing.

So why are they issuing this alert if their not sending out additional security?

Looks like I'll be walking for the next few days ...

Because this stuff creeps me out :mad: :mad: :mad:

lofter1
October 6th, 2005, 07:30 PM
Be sure to let us know if your bag gets searched or you see anything going on ...

BrooklynRider
October 6th, 2005, 09:34 PM
Actually, this is what happened:

Bush, sagging in the polls, makes a speech about terror - terror - terror. Us against them. They want to destroy us. Us. Them. Us. Them. Stay the course. Not gonna run. Stopped ten attacks. Us. Them. Us. Them. Karl Rove about to be indicted. America's enemies. Fight for democracy. Can't let the extremists get us. Us. Them. Us. Them. Us. Them.

Later that day.....

Hey, Mike! It's Mike Chertoff on the phone.... I said, "Mike Chertoff!".... Yes, you do - he's the new head of Homeland Security. Says he has hard facts - details of a planned attack on the NYC Subway.... Why yes the president did make that speech this morning...I know, what a strange coincidence. But, you know they already foiled ten planned attacks. Ten!..... I don't know he didn't say.... No the news outlets can't confirm them either... Anyway, Mr. Chertoff is holding.... Says, its "urgent!"....

Later that day....

We have received credible evidence that a well-orchestrated attack is planned against the NYC subway system. Don't you worry about a thing. Everyone should continue take the subway as usual.... I'm sorry I can't disclose the details.... No, we won't raise the terror alert from orange to red... People should just continue to spy on their neighbors, snitch on their friends, spread fearful rumors and continue to help us build a network of intimidation to rival anything the KGB, SAVAK or the SS ever had.

Later that night...

Mr. Mayor, what was the threat... I can't comment... What precautions are being taken?.... I can't comment.... Who informed you of the threat?... The Federal Government.... Were they credible on WMDs?... No commment... The White House / CIA Leak?... No comment.... National Preparedness for Disasters and Acts of Terror?.... No comment... The link between Iraq and 9/11?... No comment.... Is this all a coincidence that it happens a few hours after George W. Bush is sagging in the polls, was handed a defeat by his own party on the latest military appropriations bill, is getting hammered by conservatives over his latest Supreme Court choice, and is on the verge of seeing his chief political stategist indicted? Is it just a coincidence or more of a convenience?.... No more questions... See you all on the subways in the morning!...

Later that night...

Wow Mike! Is it a coincidence that this happened on the same day you skipped out on another mayoral debate? Wow! You would've gotten hammered in the press for the second snub. Even non-partisan groups were critical of your snub. But WOW, this is really convenient. Now the terror threat will be on page one and your picture will be plastered everywhere. It's like a Rudy Giuliani moment. Wow! What a coincidence!

stache
October 7th, 2005, 12:08 AM
I'm using my clear vinyl backpack for the duration.

BrooklynRider
October 7th, 2005, 09:49 AM
Guess everyone is ignoring those important words that were also reported: "not deemed credible".

lofter1
October 7th, 2005, 10:04 AM
NY1 & CNN have just reported that Penn Station has been partially cordoned off due to a "suspicious package"

BrooklynRider
October 7th, 2005, 10:08 AM
It's probably just unopened cleaning supplies that no one would sign for.

kmistic
October 7th, 2005, 11:47 AM
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20051007/ts_nm/security_newyork_dc

Amtrak officer at the scene told Reuters, "It was a soda can with a green liquid bubbling out, but it doesn't seem to be anything." By late morning, passenger were free to move freely. Amtrak operations were never disrupted.

lofter1
October 7th, 2005, 12:28 PM
Later that night...
Wow Mike! Is it a coincidence that this happened on the same day you skipped out on another mayoral debate? ...Wow! What a coincidence!
What are you saying??

A politician would use fear to his advantage?????

Oh, come on now ....

Bush: NYC Acted Alone in Unveiling Threat


Oct 07 11:47 AM US/Eastern
http://www.breitbart.com/news/2005/10/07/D8D39HF04.html


WASHINGTON -- President Bush said Friday that New York City officials exercised their own prerogative in publicizing a subway terror threat, declining to second-guess that decision or suggest they had overreacted.

"Our job is to gather intelligence and pass it on to local authorities. And they make the judgments necessary to respond," Bush told reporters.

Administration security officials had said on Thursday the threat to New York was of "doubtful credibility," a phrase repeated earlier Friday by Bush's spokesman.

"The level of cooperation between the federal government and the local government is getting better and better. And part of that level of cooperation is the ability to pass information on. And we did, and they responded," Bush said during a picture-taking session at the White House with the prime minister of Hungary.

Asked if he thought New York officials had overreacted, Bush said: "I think they took the information we gave and made the judgments they thought were necessary. And the American people have got to know that, one, we're collecting information and sharing it with local authorities on a timely basis. And that's important."

Earlier, White House spokesman Scott McClellan told reporters: "In this case, we notified New York City officials early on of the intelligence information that we had received. And while it is specific, you heard our homeland security officials say it is of doubtful credibility. It is something we continue to analyze."

Copyright 2005 The Associated Press.

ryan
October 7th, 2005, 12:45 PM
Wow Mike! Is it a coincidence that this happened on the same day you skipped out on another mayoral debate? Wow! What a coincidence! I don't think this could possibly be said any better.

Gregory Tenenbaum
October 7th, 2005, 08:07 PM
You can switch places with me and Ill be riding the subway non stop.

Just please take care. That goes for everyone.

lofter1
October 7th, 2005, 08:13 PM
So has the mayor always taken the subway to work? Doesnt he live on 68th Street or something?
It's been his usual practice to travel on the subway -- not sure if he "always" takes it, but it's not like this is the first or only time.

NoyokA
October 7th, 2005, 09:12 PM
I made the poll.

NoyokA
October 7th, 2005, 10:07 PM
Do you ride the subway? Or better yet, who here does or did ride the subway? (If thats to personal please just delete it).

No that's not personal. Not to get off-topic but you don't have to ask if its too personal or not, just don't ask personal questions. This is a question about subways in a thread about subways, its hand and hand with a poll. Its not directed towards a specific person so no one is pressured to answer. The problem that arose about your questions was that they would be directed towards someone and it had nothing to do with the topic.

I mostly take the subway, I take the bus alot, and I only occasionally take taxis.

NoyokA
October 8th, 2005, 12:14 AM
When I ask its not always off topic. I have been asked myself.

Do you still take the subway?

In the first part of your post I dont understand what you're asking.

Do I still take the subway?

Yes.

stache
October 8th, 2005, 08:53 AM
Generally speaking, I take the train away from home and the bus back. Sometimes this means I can use my transfer for the return. :)

Gulcrapek
October 8th, 2005, 11:38 AM
The train from Brooklyn to Manhattan and back on Fridays and usually Saturdays. Train to Brooklyn Thursday night. So not that often. I am a bit more nervous than I would have been but I'm not going to sacrifice the completion of my work.

lofter1
October 8th, 2005, 01:47 PM
I either take the subways or walk -- depending on how rushed I am.

Very occasionally I take a bus, and even less frequently grab a cab (usually just later at night when I don't want to wait for the infrequent R train).

NewYorkYankee
October 8th, 2005, 01:49 PM
I take it atleast 6 times a week. I go to Union Square and back downtown. Im not afraid no more than I usually am, although, I am a bit aggriavted with the "Higher Security". I have yet to see a single officer, even in 14th street.

TLOZ Link5
October 8th, 2005, 01:55 PM
Not once since July 7th have I been stopped to have my bag searched.

As for the terror warning, the 6 train was as crowded as ever yesterday; people seem to be either taking the warning in stride or with a grain of salt.

lofter1
October 13th, 2005, 01:10 PM
This makes me feel so much safer...

No wonder Bloomberg called out the troops to watch the subways:

Terror Tip for the Rich

E-mails warned bigs of city attack

By ALISON GENDAR
DAILY NEWS POLICE BUREAU CHIEF

http://www.nydailynews.com/front/story/355272p-302744c.html


The city's rich and well-connected were tipped off to last week's subway terror threat days before average New Yorkers, the Daily News has learned.

At least two E-mails revealing the purported plot were sent to a select crowd of business and arts executives early last week by New Yorkers who claimed to have close connections to Homeland Security and other federal officials, authorities said.

http://www.nydailynews.com/static/images/graphics/leak.jpg


The NYPD confirmed that it learned of the E-mails on Oct. 3 - three days before Mayor Bloomberg, Police Commissioner Raymond Kelly and the FBI went public with the threat.

"I have just received a most disturbing call from one of my oldest friends from growing up in Washington," one E-mail began. "He called with a very specific caution to not enter or use the New York City subway system from Oct. 7 through 10th."

A second E-mail sounded a similar ominous tone: "As some of you know my father works for Homeland Security, at a very high position and receives security briefings on a daily basis.

"The only information that I can pass on is that everyone should at all costs not ride the subway for the next two weeks in major areas of NYC."
One of the E-mails was dated Oct. 3 with a 6:05 p.m. time stamp, about 90 minutes before Bloomberg was fully briefed on the threat, a police source said.

The early warning infuriated several police officials, who noted that Homeland Security officials had challenged the credibility of the threat after the city and FBI warned the public.

"We're briefing the mayor, ratcheting up security, talking about when to go public - and Homeland Security is downplaying the whole thing while their people are telling friends to stay out of the subways," a police source said. "It's pretty bad."

NYPD investigators obtained copies of the E-mails on Oct. 4, as Bloomberg and Kelly were finalizing a plan to respond to the threat, and police officials gave the E-mails to the Homeland Security Department, police said.

'Members of our corporate security network informed the Police Department of the E-mails' existence days prior to any announcement of the threat," NYPD Deputy Commissioner Paul Browne said yesterday.

Homeland Security officials confirmed that they were told about the early E-mail warnings.

"We have looked into them, but do not consider them to be of great significance," Homeland Security spokesman Russ Knocke said yesterday.

"At best, they were based on anecdotal accounts of very limited information," he added, declining to reveal whether the feds were investigating.

The News obtained copies of two E-mails, one with the foreboding subject line: "Alarming call from Washington." Unsigned versions were also posted on Snopes.com, a site that examines urban legends.

One of the E-mail senders, when reached by The News, declined comment.

The plot, calling for terrorists to detonate bombs hidden in briefcases, suitcases or strollers, has been largely discredited since the public warning.

Bloomberg has defended his response, arguing the city had no choice but to act on the "specific threat." He has said he held off alerting the public until Oct.6 to give authorities time to round up suspects in Iraq.

Ninjahedge
October 13th, 2005, 01:16 PM
There is always inside information that is given out to people in the inner circle before everyone else.

One main reason being that those select people will not cause a panic and disrupt the city's operation.

If Trump decided to stay in NJ over that period, I do not see NYC suffering.

OTOH, if 1/2 the workers decided to call in sick, or try to work from home because of worries like this, it would effect everything.

So, when the threat is not confirmed, you let it leak to a few friends/important people. Once you are fairly sure of it, then you let the general public know.

NYatKNIGHT
October 13th, 2005, 01:46 PM
I still have yet to be searched or see anyone searched. I do occasionally see more cops standing around talking to each other outside, but that's about it.

When I see them actually look serious, maybe I'll think twice about using the subway, but until then I ride stress-free daily. (See Cannabis Rasta thread) ;)

BrooklynRider
October 13th, 2005, 02:11 PM
There is always inside information that is given out to people in the inner circle before everyone else...

Everyone else in this case would include the Mayor of the "threatened" city, who would be responsible for implementing precautions and emegency response, and received notification AFTER the "inner circle".

Ninjahedge
October 13th, 2005, 05:35 PM
Um, no it wouldn't.

Brooklyn, I know where you are coming from on this, but the problem comes with deciding who is to be let know about it.

Was the channel to Bloomie secure enough that they would not get an undue scare into it?

Is this like an insider stock tip with no real credential? At what point do the people tell everyone else and:

A) Ruin their advantage
B) Scare the crap out of everyone on something that may not matter.

How many times have we gone to "orange"?

How many people even pay attension now? (Is it still there even?).

Point being, as bad as it may be, there is a reason some people are told before others. Primarily because telling everyone at the same time almost never works.

lofter1
October 13th, 2005, 08:19 PM
... the problem comes with deciding who is to be let know about it.

Was the channel to Bloomie secure enough that they would not get an undue scare into it?

Yep, another questionable judgment call by the Bushie Squad.

Seems some of the DC gang decided it was more important to tell their relatives here in the City than the man in charge of NYC.

Clearly the "channel" used by the emailers wasn't too secure.

I wouldn't be surprised if Bloomberg first heard about this "threat" from one of his business pals.

Imagine the follow-up phone calls!



How many times have we gone to "orange"?

NYC is on constant ORANGE .

BrooklynRider
October 13th, 2005, 09:25 PM
...Point being, as bad as it may be, there is a reason some people are told before others...

If you knew others were being told, as it was reported they were, would you have wanted to be told too? That is the basis of what we are talking about here.

"Connected" people getting "insider" information that can mean the difference between life and death. The comparison to stock trading is apropos only the stakes are human lives.

The only reason we can rationalize it is because it didn't happen. If something did happen and you were reading this, would you be upset and angry? If so, then it is entirely reasonable to find this report outrageous and worthy of criminal investigation.

lofter1
October 13th, 2005, 09:36 PM
"The Department of Homeland Security is looking into whether or not agency officials tipped off family members about last week's alleged terror threat ... "

Sounds like a job for JOSE: http://www.wirednewyork.com/forum/showpost.php?p=68912&postcount=2

Subway Terror Threat News May Have Been Leaked Ahead Of Public Disclosure

October 13, 2005

http://www.ny1.com/ny1/content/index.jsp?stid=1&aid=54228


A report in Thursday's Daily News says people received emails about the potential threat as early as October 3rd, three days before Mayor Michael Bloomberg's announcement about the suspected plot.

Governor George Pataki called the reports "disturbing,” and Police Commissioner Ray Kelly also expressed concern. But Kelly says people should wait for the outcome of the investigation before they draw any conclusions.

“It is inappropriate. Yes, obviously we're concerned about that if in fact this is inside information being put out by a public official,” said Kelly. “But I think that it is important that we wait until we make a judgment."

After the threat was announced, the Department of Homeland Security downplayed it. Four days later, the city scaled back security after learning there was no clear information an attack was imminent.

A Homeland Security spokesman said in a statement: “We take any potential leak of sensitive or classified information very seriously."

lofter1
October 13th, 2005, 09:41 PM
The signal that will notify NYers that NYC is moving from Code ORANGE to Code RED:

Simultaneously every Helicopter and Black Limo on Manhattan are seen heading away from NYC.

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