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Gab
November 1st, 2005, 08:02 PM
Here's a website about subway around the world. So I would like to know which subway do you prefer? It's hard to tell you which is the best because I try 2 different subways in my whole life. I can tell you Montreal subway or Metro is simpler than New York subway. http://www.subwaynavigator.com/subway_site/eng/accueil/fset_subway.htm

Gab
November 1st, 2005, 08:14 PM
But people can comment about security, service and everything they want.

Gab
November 1st, 2005, 08:18 PM
The which do you prefer question is fine, but the which is the best is hard to answer. That might be both of them.

ryan
November 1st, 2005, 09:19 PM
I prefer the naked breasts in the Paris metro to Dr. Zizmor in the NYC subway.

Ninjahedge
November 2nd, 2005, 09:05 AM
Tokyo.

I think they have one of the cleanest, punctual subway systems on the planet.

One reason being, it was all built (or 99% built) after the war (I think?).

The fare system is confusing, but only for non Japanese speakers/readers, and even then you can catch on pretty quickly.

It is not as forgiving as the NYC subways in that depending on where you go, you will pay more or less. No "One fare anywhere".

I think a similar system would be good for Manhattan. Doing something like that would require a huge overhaul of the system first, and with the MTA's record of financial expertise.......

normaldude
November 2nd, 2005, 11:07 AM
I like the fact that NYC's subway runs 24/7, and has unlimited ride metrocards.

TLOZ Link5
November 2nd, 2005, 11:19 AM
Tokyo.

I think they have one of the cleanest, punctual subway systems on the planet.

One reason being, it was all built (or 99% built) after the war (I think?).



Tokyo's Ginza Line first opened in 1927 and its approximately nine-mile length was completed by 1939.

Given that the next-oldest line began construction in 1961, then you'd be right that nearly all of Tokyo's subway system was built after the war.

redhot00
November 2nd, 2005, 12:02 PM
It is not as forgiving as the NYC subways in that depending on where you go, you will pay more or less. No "One fare anywhere".

I think a similar system would be good for Manhattan. Doing something like that would require a huge overhaul of the system first, and with the MTA's record of financial expertise.......

I don't. Too many people already endure long commutes from the outer boroughs into the city on the train. Why make them pay more for it?

lofter1
November 2nd, 2005, 12:12 PM
The NYC subway is probably the most democratic system in the world ...

Users are not penalized for having to live far away from the city center (unless you consider nasty outer stations as a penalty).

If they tried to change the fare to a "pay by distance" scheme there would be blood on the tracks.

Ninjahedge
November 2nd, 2005, 02:17 PM
Tokyo's Ginza Line first opened in 1927 and its approximately nine-mile length was completed by 1939.

Given that the next-oldest line began construction in 1961, then you'd be right that nearly all of Tokyo's subway system was built after the war.


Good guess then!!!

I was just guessing on the materials and the construction style.

That, combined with what wear and tear is evident on the infrastructure, you can tell that it is not VERY old.

Ninjahedge
November 2nd, 2005, 02:19 PM
I don't. Too many people already endure long commutes from the outer boroughs into the city on the train. Why make them pay more for it?

Because that are the reason the system costs so much to run.

The more you ride, the more you USE THE SYSTEM!

Why is it fair for every train, plane and boat transportation system to charge more for going further, but somehow a great injustice to do the same with the subway?

Ninjahedge
November 2nd, 2005, 02:23 PM
The NYC subway is probably the most democratic system in the world ...

Users are not penalized for having to live far away from the city center (unless you consider nasty outer stations as a penalty).

If they tried to change the fare to a "pay by distance" scheme there would be blood on the tracks.

Loft, there is blood on the tracks when they decide to do anything with the MTA.

People do not want to pay more.

But paying more does not necessarily mean that everyone will have to, or that things such as metrocard monthlys would be eliminated.

I think dividing it into zones would probably be the easiest way to do it. If you have been to Japan, the system is quite complicated and would not be well suited for here.

I think this would also promote a bit more of a decentralization of the whole work area of NYC. People would be more inclined to find jobs closer to home if it cost them more.

It is what NJ has had to deal with since day 1.

Ygor
December 6th, 2005, 11:54 PM
I prefer the naked breasts in the Paris metro to Dr. Zizmor in the NYC subway.

I prefer the Dr. Zizmor ads in the NYC subway to the "Quit scratching your head" ads in the London Underground.

Mind the gap please.

manchesterexport
January 9th, 2006, 06:30 AM
Having only ever been on two (Manchester metro and London underground) I have to say the NYC subway looks mind-boggling!

archifreese
January 17th, 2006, 03:12 PM
i dont like the fare zones idea, i was a month in london this summer though i grew up in/with NY and MTA. i hated that my house was 1 stop outside londons zone 1 and i was paying SIGNIFICANTLY more to go to school in the zone 1 which was just 5 stops down the line. if i had lived inside the zone 1 area i would have saved about 10-15 US dollars per week on my farecard, but it would have nearly doubled my rent to be in zone 1 so its a win-lose either way.but in NY id die to see what the zone idea would cost me to go from sheepshead bay to my friends house on the UWS!!!!!!!

bkmonkey
January 18th, 2006, 12:12 AM
Living in Brooklyn, the fare zones idea sounds ridiculous. The reason why New York City, is successful, is because of high foot trafic. If New Yorkers cannot hop around their city, with unlimited cards, at a set price, then they will be inclined to work closer to home, shop closer to home, and eat closer to home. That will be bad for the city, and in the long run bad for the MTA, as people will just use the subway a little less. The city, relies on good cheap, reliable trasnportation. Most of the NYC's residents live outside of Manhattan. If their are chared more to get to Manahattan, it will be Manhattan that will suffer.

Gregory Tenenbaum
March 2nd, 2006, 06:33 AM
No doubt NY's subway is dirty, but lets face it, so is London's.

If you want to live in a clean environment, don't live in a city at all.

On that site, check out the Helsinki subway - that's mad - who can actually pronounce those stations?

And try Budapest too.

MrSpice
March 2nd, 2006, 01:38 PM
Living in Brooklyn, the fare zones idea sounds ridiculous. The reason why New York City, is successful, is because of high foot trafic. If New Yorkers cannot hop around their city, with unlimited cards, at a set price, then they will be inclined to work closer to home, shop closer to home, and eat closer to home. That will be bad for the city, and in the long run bad for the MTA, as people will just use the subway a little less. The city, relies on good cheap, reliable trasnportation. Most of the NYC's residents live outside of Manhattan. If their are chared more to get to Manahattan, it will be Manhattan that will suffer.

Or maybe it will give a boost to local neighborhoods that lose business to Manhattan because people can get there for cheap even if it's 1.5 hours in some instances. It does make sense to charge people more if they use up more of the sybway's resources. It is not fair to charge someone to commutes for 5 min the same as someone who commutes for 1.5 hours each way. People that commute less subsidise those with longer commutes. I think the zone fares that exist in London, Paris and Vienna would work well in New York if properly implemented.

MrSpice
March 2nd, 2006, 01:41 PM
The NYC subway is probably the most democratic system in the world ...


I think "one of the worst in the world" and "one of the worst managed" would better describe this system.

MidtownGuy
March 2nd, 2006, 04:22 PM
This is a rotten idea. Racists would love the effect on Manhattan's streets, keep those poor brown people in their own neighborhoods where they belong, right?

MrSpice
March 2nd, 2006, 05:01 PM
This is a rotten idea. Racists would love the effect on Manhattan's streets, keep those poor brown people in their own neighborhoods where they belong, right?

Maybe Queens residents would love the idea because more people would stay in Queens rather than going to Manhattan. And maybe many Brooklyn residents would love idea that when they hop on the train for 1 or 2 stops, they don't have to pay the full fare. And maybe the poor people would like the idea not to subsidize those addicted to long commutes - those who really cost the system most of the money.

What a one-sided view you have - on pretty much everything. Should we abanond bridge tolls so that poor people could come to Manhattan more easily? Would you support that?

Is everyone outside of Manhattan poor? Have you visited Manhattan Beach or Park Slope in Brooklyn, or Riverdale in the Bronx or Forest Hills in Queens? Some houses there cost millions...

MidtownGuy
March 2nd, 2006, 06:10 PM
What a one-sided view you have - on pretty much everything

That's funny, I was just thinking the same about you. I guess it takes one to know one.

All of your views are predictable , the same old talking points.

ablarc
March 2nd, 2006, 06:21 PM
All of your views are predictable , the same old talking points.
But, really... isn't that true of all of us?

MidtownGuy
March 2nd, 2006, 06:22 PM
Should we abanond bridge tolls so that poor people could come to Manhattan more easily? Would you support that?

Great straw man. Such a technique will not work with me.

MidtownGuy
March 2nd, 2006, 06:24 PM
Ah, ablarc, that was exactly my point. What he said of me, about being one-sided, is true of nearly everyone. I just echoed the same type of statement back to him.

Jake
March 2nd, 2006, 10:40 PM
Should I comment on this? I don't think anyone wants me to comment on this. :D

Swede
March 6th, 2006, 01:49 PM
I've used a few subways in my day (Sthlm, Cph, Prague, LDN, NYC) and IMO the NYC system is pretty easy to find your way around in. Except at the big stations where many lines meet, not the easiest lay-outs. But then, what system manages that?
London's tube tunnels are just way too cramped for me, not just the tiny train profiles, but the platforms are way too narrow too.
I guess it all comes down to what you're used to. Srockholm's subway was based on the IRT (iirc) so the MTA just feels more familiar, and the line I live on have very spacious stations deep in the bedrock.

ablarc
March 6th, 2006, 07:30 PM
Srockholm's subway was based on the IRT (iirc) so the MTA just feels more familiar...
Does this mean it's not metric?

kitchie
March 7th, 2006, 01:26 AM
Subways are great escapes when your in a hurry, that's why I wish they'll make it as neat and clean as before, especially NY subways. I find Tokyo city as one of the countries that has the cleanest subways.. :)

Swede
March 7th, 2006, 12:29 PM
Does this mean it's not metric?
huh? how would it not be metric? Just 'cause it's not nice even numbers for everything doesn't mean it's not metric. e.g. both systems use standard guage, as does the Swedish mainline railways - they're even connected at one place.
I'm sure tiny adjustments wer made, but supposedly there was a theoretical possibility of running IRT cars on the Sthlm system up until a few years ago (new signaling system).

ablarc
March 7th, 2006, 12:44 PM
...it's not nice even numbers for everything...
That's what I meant.

Anything can be measured in any system, but certain standard parts might not fit.

Swede
March 8th, 2006, 02:37 PM
Most railway(/subway) stuff is an international (ISO) standard anyway, so...

ablarc
May 29th, 2006, 07:56 AM
Subways are great escapes when your in a hurry...
They can be a different kind of escape as well. I used to go ride the subway to think.

bkmonkey
May 29th, 2006, 08:59 AM
Loft, there is blood on the tracks when they decide to do anything with the MTA.

People do not want to pay more.

But paying more does not necessarily mean that everyone will have to, or that things such as metrocard monthlys would be eliminated.

I think dividing it into zones would probably be the easiest way to do it. If you have been to Japan, the system is quite complicated and would not be well suited for here.

I think this would also promote a bit more of a decentralization of the whole work area of NYC. People would be more inclined to find jobs closer to home if it cost them more.

It is what NJ has had to deal with since day 1.

The are a few reasons this hasn't happend. The first, is because the consolidation of the IRT the BMT and the IMD happened in the 40's. the BMT, was based in Brooklyn, no one ever thought of charging more to go long distiances, especially since one of the consolidating companies built infastructure for that very purpose.

New York City, is extremely dense, even in bouroghs outside Manhattan. The reason we have such a large, quick transit system isn't just for the people in Manhattan, its for commuters as well. Charging more would curtail growth in fine neighborhoods, and penilize those living farther away.

zupermaus
June 22nd, 2006, 08:46 AM
London has the biggest and oldest underground in the world, not a great combination if you know what I mean. Its great if you're a tourist or if youre living art deco, or a design iconnoisseur.

NOT if youre facing the reality of using the bloody thing to commute, a network that, on average, a part of fails every few minutes due to aging infrastructure (they recently had to use a piece of 'computer' from the London Transport Museum), is currently being sold out to big business (the kiss of death to what remains of punctuality, comfort and value for money), exceeds the EU regulations every summer on temperatures for transporting livestock (due to age aircon cannot be built onto the carriages - the tunnel roofs are too low), and is plagued by network wide strikes on pressing problems such as uniform design, quality of their changing rooms, the near-sacking of a driver who went through 3 red lights (damn right) or the controllers who had 20 empty beercans found in the control room, or of course their pay, $60,000 p/a starting rate being too low to drive straight (or sober).

For example the other day the Metropolitan, Circle, District, Northern and Hammersmith& City lines (I cant describe how big that is) had 'temporary speed restrictions' put in place at the height of rush hour meaning the trains ran 3x less frequently, had to stop for 5 mins in the tunnel between stations and were horribly overcrowded, in 105 degree heat. People had to queue to get in the station, to pass the ticket barriers, to get onto the walkways, to get onto the platforms and finally to get onto the trains that didnt have standing room for them anyway, and that had to stop a few stops down the line due to the whole network collapsing around them. I had to change trains 3x, nearly faint and breathe armpit for over an hour, sweat trickling down my face, on what should have been a 14 minute direct route. I also punched the air so hard I pulled my bicep... I did mind the gap though. I can't describe how much enshitement was enforced on how many millions of people, all due to one signal failure at Kings X.

Also despite London touted as the 24hr city, the tube shuts down at midnight. They changed to an hr later on Saturdays to cater for the millions of pubgoers, but that meant an hr later opening on Sundays and to 1 million clubbers who relied on a 6am service. You see them queueing out the cold from 5am at every entrance. Apparently you cant just replace the trains like in NYC (due to there being a single track in Londons stone age network), you have to service them then and there, and that it takes them 5hrs to do so (what?? do they clean them with a single toothbrush??)...


anyway, sorry, just a rant from a long suffering Londoner. The system is suberb, really, just the service is shite, really.

AmeriKenArtist
July 21st, 2006, 09:53 AM
I enjoy both of these systems. Smaller configurations, especially the "spoke and hub (Boston)" designs are frustrating to me.....

ablarc
July 23rd, 2006, 11:17 AM
the "spoke and hub (Boston)" designs are frustrating to me.....
These need a loop ring, like Moscow's.

lofter1
July 23rd, 2006, 12:45 PM
^^ NYC could use a ring loop, too