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GINGER
January 22nd, 2006, 04:53 AM
Asking people who use the subway regularly,seems the logical thing to do so here goes.
I've used the London underground regular and find it so easy but looking at maps of the New York subway it looks much more difficult,as a novice what do you basically look for?Do you look for your destination and then work your way back?Are the subways clearly sign posted when you get underground?Are the destinations on the front of the trains?Is the subway safe late evening early morning?Any info would be great!!
Thanks in anticipation.
A complete novice.

stache
January 22nd, 2006, 05:29 AM
They also show subway stops and have an overlay of the streets. :)

jc37
January 22nd, 2006, 02:38 PM
The subways are clearly signposted, just know which train you want to take and whether you are going uptown or downtown. If you look at a subway map, you'll know which train you need to take, for example 456 run up and down on the east side, the E runs across midtown and down 8th ave. They are generally very safe at all times of day, however I wouldn't recommend taking them alone very late at night. As long as you are traveling with at least 1 other person, you will be absolutely fine. Good luck!

Ninjahedge
January 23rd, 2006, 09:44 AM
You can also try this GoogleMap/Subway overlay "hack" site:

http://www.onnyturf.com/subwaymap.php

It is pretty handy in that it shows you where the actual stations are in relation to a scaled map rather than the NYT's colorful schematic.... ;)

GINGER
January 23rd, 2006, 10:31 AM
Nice one Ninjahedge,looks a litlle clearer when shown like that,i'm pretty sure that once we've used the subway once it'll be easy!:o

GINGER
January 31st, 2006, 12:38 PM
Can you buy a five day subway ticket?If so what is the approximate cost??
Thanks.
Ginger

ZippyTheChimp
January 31st, 2006, 12:54 PM
Metro Card is the name of the NYC transit fare ticket.

There are two types of cards: Pay-per-ride or unlimited-ride.

The unlimited ride has several options:
http://www.mta.nyc.ny.us/metrocard/mcgtreng.htm#unlimited

GINGER
January 31st, 2006, 01:05 PM
Thanks Zippythechimp looks a good deal to me,just the info I needed!!

david lee
February 1st, 2006, 12:02 PM
You can also try this GoogleMap/Subway overlay "hack" site:

http://www.onnyturf.com/subwaymap.php

It is pretty handy in that it shows you where the actual stations are in relation to a scaled map rather than the NYT's colorful schematic.... ;)

Thanks Ninjehedge that is so helpfull

King_Thing1234
February 4th, 2006, 12:31 AM
The subways are clearly signposted, just know which train you want to take and whether you are going uptown or downtown. If you look at a subway map, you'll know which train you need to take, for example 456 run up and down on the east side, the E runs across midtown and down 8th ave. They are generally very safe at all times of day, however I wouldn't recommend taking them alone very late at night. As long as you are traveling with at least 1 other person, you will be absolutely fine. Good luck! don't give the woman wrong information man.. i wouldn't recomend taking the subway past 8 p.m. and that thing about going with another person is totally wrong only people on the subway that late at night is blacks and spanish kids (no effence im black myself just stating a fact) i'm just saying if you haven't grew up in ny they can tell by your nervousness and how you don't fit in they will attack anyone of any race as long as he/she as money the subway is very dangerous at night..people get stabbed,shot and jumped all the time you really shouldn't take it late at night.... because they will just make you nervous they will stare at you until you do and then follow you off the train take your money maybe even hit you most of the ghetto kids have guns or weapons on them and aren't afraid to use them..they will hurt you if you even say leave me alone it's not like the suburbs and these kids have nothing to live for (in their minds) so they don't care about going to jail or other stuff and theres no police officers down by the subway they are mostly upstairs and considering there has been numerous cop shootings/killings in NY it doesnt matter if they were there or not but im not saying this to scare you it's perfectly fine during the day-light but when it gets dark they all go out and start trouble especillay in the summer but NY is a great place you just have to know how to get around... and you'll be fine have a great time :D

GINGER
February 4th, 2006, 08:40 AM
Thanks for the honest info King Thing1234,I think travelling around strange(I mean that as in it being new to me!)cities means you have to vigilant and possibly blend into the background as much as possible!!Which is hard being ginger,19 stone and speaking with an English accent!
Thanks any way and just to put the record straight,i'm a bloke!!!:D

ryan
February 4th, 2006, 12:10 PM
Ginger, and anyone else who might read this thread,

Myths about predatory black and latino kids who all carry weapons and are just waiting to attack are well, myths - not honesty. And hateful bigotry with I would take "effence" to. This is the New York City of the past or from some movie from the past. The recent subway shootings that stand out in my mind have all been during the day in very populated areas. Freak random crime that in a city this big is statistically pertty uncommon)

The subway is very safe at any time of day (8pm too late? good grief). I might suggest you take a cab past 11 or so, but more for the convenience (you'll have to wait for the train and you might be uncomfortable waiting on empty platforms after reading BS about every black and latino kid wanting to mug you). I see tiny women riding the subway alone at night all the time with no fear. An English guy would be fine - accent or no. There's no reason to be scared.

ZippyTheChimp
February 4th, 2006, 12:25 PM
Don't pay any attention to King Thing. He is just a troll.

I doubt any of the black people I know would qualify their opinion on safety in the subway with:

im black myself just stating a fact

macreator
February 4th, 2006, 01:22 PM
Don't listen to this guy -- I frequently take the 6 train home around 11:00 PM at night and find it to be both very crowded and very safe.

Perhaps the advantage of having a subway system that has a lower capacity than the number of people that use it is the fact that trains are always busy.

This guy is just a racist who thinks all Hispanics and Blacks are somehow knife-wielding muggers waiting to prance upon tourists.

Now, I wouldn't recommend taking the subway past midnight --- but if you did I wouldn't be that worried.

I can't name a subway shooting over the past year that was an act of random violence. They were all between two criminals. And none of them were at night ironically.

Schadenfrau
February 4th, 2006, 02:25 PM
Ginger, pay no mind to the troll behind the curtain. I agree wholeheartedly with Ryan and Maccreator.

GINGER
February 4th, 2006, 04:44 PM
Thanks everyone,we travel the London underground regularly and never find it uncomfortable/nasty,our problem is that the only way we see the NY subway is on films(I know it seems corny!!)so our impressions are based in a negative sort of way!!!!!
I'm looking forward to all the ways of travelling round NY,be it trains,subway,taxis or by foot!!!Thanks all,any more opinions will be great!!!

Please don't ridicule this question too much,but are the guardian angels still knocking about the subways,I seem to remember a long time ago they patrolled the London underground!:cool:
Thanks.
GINGER

Ninjahedge
February 4th, 2006, 05:21 PM
Nope.

They went out with Music Videos on MTV.....

lofter1
February 4th, 2006, 06:06 PM
Ummmm, not necessarily ...

http://www.guardianangels.org/index.php

http://www.guardianangels.org/images/beret13.jpg (http://www.guardianangels.org/speaker.html)

GINGER
February 4th, 2006, 07:26 PM
Nope.

They went out with Music Videos on MTV.....

Am I missing something here????:cool:In England we still have music videos on MTV!!!!!:rolleyes:

matvail2002
November 7th, 2006, 12:41 PM
Hi! I am new on this forum and I have a couple of questions on the NYC subway?
1)Which station (in particular) and train is the most dangerous. Any experiences?
2)Which line is the best one to do for fun?
3)If you are a man do you recommand going to the Bronx by day?

Cheers,

Matt Vaillancourt

Schadenfrau
November 7th, 2006, 01:14 PM
They only let women into the Bronx between 6AM and 5PM.

spatulashack
November 7th, 2006, 01:42 PM
Hi! I am new on this forum and I have a couple of questions on the NYC subway?
1)Which station (in particular) and train is the most dangerous. Any experiences?
2)Which line is the best one to do for fun?
3)If you are a man do you recommand going to the Bronx by day?

Cheers,

Matt Vaillancourt

Hey Mat! Welcome to the forums. Pretty much all stations in Manhattan are perfectly safe most time of day. Certain stations that receive less traffic during late hours in Queens and the South Bronx might be a little unsafe. As for most "fun" line, it depends what you find fun. The 7 line is the fastest in the system on Manhattan-bound trains. I find taking the Q or B over the bridge provides some interesting sites. If you are interested in taking a tour of Manhattan from the southern most tip to the northern end, the 1 line makes all stops from South Ferry all the way to 215th street. One of the best deals in the system is the A line which travels all the way to Far Rockaway for 2 bucks. Transfer to the S at Broad Channel to visit Rockaway Park and be sure to take the A that says, "FAR ROCKAWAY" and not "Lefferts". Also a great deal is taking a Brooklyn-bound B train which runs Express to Brighton Beach. Transfer to the Q to visit Coney Island and make a day out of riding the Cyclone. As for your third question... I don't really understand it. Most areas of the Bronx are safe by day for both sexes.

daver
November 7th, 2006, 01:47 PM
don't give the woman wrong information man.. i wouldn't recomend taking the subway past 8 p.m. and that thing about going with another person is totally wrong only people on the subway that late at night is blacks and spanish kids
Sheesh, that is totally not true. I don't get out of Manhattan on the subway, but I know for sure that it is fine there WAY past 8PM. I've ridden with my kids (aged 4, 5, 10, and 12) past midnight from uptown to downtown, then across the ferry without any problems or fear. I've ridden as late as about 2AM, and as early as 4AM without issue. I would reccommend riding the car with the conductor on it in the middle of the night, and I would reccommend against sleeping on the subway at those times, just in case. I don't know if it is a lot rougher in the other Boroughs, but I haven't seen any trouble in Manhattan. Oh, and my wife has ridden with one or two friends (girls) up to about 2AM without any problem also.

NoyokA
November 7th, 2006, 11:53 PM
NYC is a 24-hour city. It is a 24-hour city for people of all races. You will have the same break-down of blacks and latinos as white people at any time of the day. The time of the day has nothing to do with anything. However if you ride the subway uptown or to Brooklyn you will see the demographics change. For instance a 6 going uptown at 4 a.m. you will find something like 75% white at 59th, 50% white at 86th, 25% white at 96th, and then near 0% white past-there. I've been the only white person on a subway before and have had no problems.

Schadenfrau
November 8th, 2006, 02:49 AM
Frankly, if people are too afraid to sit in a subway car in which they're not amongst the racial majority, I don't think that person should be taking the subway at all. Cab it and get the hell out.

daver
November 8th, 2006, 09:04 AM
Frankly, if people are too afraid to sit in a subway car in which they're not amongst the racial majority, I don't think that person should be taking the subway at all. Cab it and get the hell out.
Heck, if you are worried about not being in the racial majority, no matter what your race, you are probably flat out in the wrong city. 2cents

luby
November 13th, 2006, 12:14 PM
Hi I am going in febuary and I a girl from England, if this guy thinks that way surley others must do so as well, I was really looking forward to going to NYC but now he has me really nervious. I know cites are cities where ever you are and there are known no go areas within each city so you have to be carefull whilst out and about but we don't usually carry guns in England in fact the only gun I have ever seen is on a policeman and that was not the norm as our policemen don't carry guns. I think I would die of fright if anyone came upto me with a gun, they would not have to shot me. I did believe NYC to be quite safe now with its zero tolerance policy on crime but by that guys comments maybe this is not so. Will I have to stay in the hotel room at night, please advice, will I be safe going out of a evening, Febuary the nights get dark very early.
Luby

lofter1
November 13th, 2006, 01:08 PM
not to worry ... come to NYC and enjoy ...

but be forewarned ;) ...

Do Not Fall In Love

Spotted by ToyRobot on the door of an North bound "R" train (Brooklyn to Manhattan)

Wooster Collective / Culture Jamming (http://www.woostercollective.com/culture_jamming/)
Posted by marc Novbember 8, 2006 at 9:38 AM (http://www.woostercollective.com/2006/11/24_hour_wireless.html)

http://www.woostercollective.com/2006/11/08/donotfall.jpg

krulltime
November 13th, 2006, 01:34 PM
Hi I am going in febuary and I a girl from England, if this guy thinks that way surley others must do so as well, I was really looking forward to going to NYC but now he has me really nervious. I know cites are cities where ever you are and there are known no go areas within each city so you have to be carefull whilst out and about but we don't usually carry guns in England in fact the only gun I have ever seen is on a policeman and that was not the norm as our policemen don't carry guns. I think I would die of fright if anyone came upto me with a gun, they would not have to shot me. I did believe NYC to be quite safe now with its zero tolerance policy on crime but by that guys comments maybe this is not so. Will I have to stay in the hotel room at night, please advice, will I be safe going out of a evening, Febuary the nights get dark very early.
Luby

The subway is very safe. I think that you are going to be in all the tourist areas of NYC. Then in that case you are going to be super safe... no matter what time at night you take the subway. So don't listen to that troll person (King_Thing1234).

ablarc
November 13th, 2006, 01:43 PM
luby,at this point I think it's safe to say that the streets of New York are safer than London's --certainly anywhere you're likely to find yourself as a tourist.

luby
November 13th, 2006, 02:28 PM
thanks guy's, you are all right, I will be staying in the tourist areas, I don't know if it's not bombs we have to worry about it lunatics as well. but no one is going to put me off my holiday and shopping spree, of course
Pen

BRT
November 15th, 2006, 02:01 AM
I've ridden as late as about 2AM, and as early as 4AM without issue.

And to close the anecdotal gap, I've ridden the 6 multiple times around 3AM, and, well, I'm still alive to post this! :D

I actually think riding the subway late can be an interesting experience for a tourist. Seeing public transit still relatively well-used late at night drives home what a 24-hour city this is. It's just inconvenient if you are tired, or if you've had a few adult beverages . . . nothing pleasant about waiting half an hour or more on a train.

NoyokA
November 15th, 2006, 02:49 AM
And to close the anecdotal gap, I've ridden the 6 multiple times around 3AM, and, well, I'm still alive to post this! :D

I actually think riding the subway late can be an interesting experience for a tourist. Seeing public transit still relatively well-used late at night drives home what a 24-hour city this is. It's just inconvenient if you are tired, or if you've had a few adult beverages . . . nothing pleasant about waiting half an hour or more on a train.

I would gladly take holding in my bladder for however long than my current situation, there's nothing unconvient about the subways when it comes to a night out on the town. Living in a non-subway city for the first time, I'm finding it difficult to go out drinking, I don't dare think about drinking and driving. Its great to get as drunk as you want and then pay a $2 fare to get home. Can't wait to move back to NYC!

ablarc
November 15th, 2006, 08:08 AM
...if it's not bombs we have to worry about it's lunatics as well.
One and the same thing.

daver
November 15th, 2006, 09:18 AM
Yah, along those lines ... my wife and I always had to decide on a designated drunk before moving to NYC. The subway has alleviated that requirement from our nights out, it has been nice. There are precious few public restrooms in NYC, however, and even fewer worth using. So make sure you go before leaving the bar/restaurant. That is my tip for the day. :D

ablarc
November 15th, 2006, 09:35 AM
^ So when are they going to start installing those European style pay toilets we've been promised so long?

lofter1
November 15th, 2006, 09:59 AM
^^^ Don't hold your breath ...

But isn't that what Starbucks are really for?

daver
November 15th, 2006, 10:15 AM
^^^ Don't hold your breath ...

But isn't that what Starbucks are really for?
Ghetto lattes and public pot-tees.

I would welcome the pay toilets. I can generally control myself (I like to think!), but when I have my kids with me it becomes a comedy, I have to withhold liquids from them ("but I'm thirsty." "I already gave you a sip, you can have more at 2PM.") and have forced bathroom breaks ("but I don't have to go." "YOU ARE GOING. GO NOW!") whenever the opportunity arises.

Times Square station has a surprisingly decent restroom, as long as you are there at a time that it is manned.

lofter1
November 15th, 2006, 12:32 PM
... when are they going to start installing those European style pay toilets we've been promised so long?

Another instance of the private sphere showing up the government ...

Charmin to New York: ‘Go in Style’


http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2006/11/15/business/600_adco.jpg
A rendering shows what a toilet paper will do to get noticed over the holiday season in New York.
Twenty stalls will be available.


nytimes.com (http://www.nytimes.com/2006/11/15/business/media/15adco.html?ref=business)
By CLAUDIA H. DEUTSCH
November 15, 2006


ADVERTISING


NEVER stand when you can sit, and never pass up a chance to go to the bathroom.


It’s the kind of oft-repeated advice that New Yorkers find useless. In Manhattan, chances to get rid of that morning coffee are few and far between.


But the search for relief is about to ease, at least for the 15.3 million people who the New York Travel Advisory Bureau predicts will visit New York over the holidays. From next Monday through Dec. 31, the Procter & Gamble Charmin brand will operate a public restroom in the heart of Times Square, amply stocked with Charmin Ultra, and complete with attendants who are assigned to clean up after each use.


“Let’s face it — there aren’t a lot of environments where a bathroom tissue message is relevant,” said Dennis Legault, brand manager for Charmin. “But the message is very relevant when people really need to go.”


The 20-stall restroom will be at 1540 Broadway, between 45th and 46th Streets, in space formerly occupied by a bar, Bar Code. It will be open from 8 a.m. to 11 p.m. (except for Christmas Day, when it will close at 6 p.m.). Two of the stalls will be accessible to people with disabilities, and baby changing stations will be available. There will also be a seating lounge, with its own photo-op: A six-foot stuffed Charmin bear, just waiting to have its picture taken with a visitor.


It is not on street level, but it will be hard to miss. Charmin representatives will be roaming the Times Square streets dressed as toilets, handing out fliers advertising the restroom’s location. Electronic billboards at local airports will announce it, too, and Charmin will prominently post the location on its Web site. Doris Roberts, Raymond’s mom on “Everyone Loves Raymond,” has agreed to do the ceremonial first flush on Monday.


A huge billboard over the door to the restroom itself will say “You are in New York. Go in Style.” Right under that will be a sign saying Charmin Restroom.


“Think of it as our holiday gift to New York,” Mr. Legault said.


Brand specialists say it is actually New York’s holiday gift to Charmin. “Really, how often do you get to introduce your product in a one-on-one fashion, to a highly motivated audience that is almost certain to respond with gratitude?” said James R. Gregory, chief executive of the brand consulting firm CoreBrand.


Charmin first tested the idea of free bathrooms in 2000, when it refurbished a restroom at the Ohio State Fair. “It was a way to try the idea without investing lots of money,” Mr. Legault said.


Follow-up research showed that there was a definite increase in Charmin’s sales, and that even three months later, people remembered the Potty Palooza, as Charmin calls its spiffed-up johns. The research showed that people even stayed longer at the fair. “In the past, they stayed as long as their bladders held out,” Mr. Legault said.


But a Times Square restroom is a bigger gamble for Charmin. This is the first time the brand will operate a restroom for longer than a few days. And, since Times Square gets visitors from all over the world, it will be hard to check whether the restroom has pumped up Charmin’s image, let alone its sales. Charmin representatives at the site will try to talk to visitors as they go out, even get e-mail addresses or phone numbers so they can contact them down the road. Still, Mr. Legault concedes, “evaluating this is going to be a challenge.”


Mr. Legault declined to discuss budget, except to say that the restroom is second only to television advertising among this year’s promotional costs.


Neither Charmin nor Vornado, the real estate company that owns the space, would divulge what Charmin is paying in rent. But upstairs retail space in the area goes for $150 to $225 a square foot per year, and the restroom will occupy from 7,000 to 8,000 square feet.


Cost, in fact, was the main thing keeping Charmin from doing this sooner.


“Real estate is so expensive in New York, we just couldn’t be sure the economics would work,” Mr. Legault said. “But we know that New York is the center of the universe, so we just had to give it a try.”


Branding experts say it is money well spent. “This will provide a much-needed service for women, who I suspect are Charmin’s main buyers,” said Judy Hopelain, a partner at the marketing consultant Prophet Brand Strategy.


Michael Watras, president of the brand consultant Straightline International, figures that the costs, no matter how high, are a pittance for what the promotion will glean. “They’re showcasing their brand to a gazillion people in the toughest place in the toughest city,” he said. “They’ll get more publicity than any advertising campaign could ever provide.”


Still, it is not a risk-free approach. If those attendants fall down on the cleaning job, or if the lines at the restroom are too long, there could be a backlash, the branding specialists said. And, when Charmin closes the Potty Palooza at year-end, gratitude could quickly become resentment. “When you introduce something that people like, it’s never a good idea to take it away,” Mr. Gregory warned.


Copyright 2006 The New York Times Company

ablarc
November 15th, 2006, 11:08 PM
^ An example of grace, "freely given, unmerited favor," according to the dictionary. Folks, however, think they're entitled to it. Funny, huh?

NoyokA
November 16th, 2006, 12:41 AM
This is one hell of an expensive advertising campaign. Im sure the signage and ground rent are over $20,000 a month. Fiscally I don't see how they will make a return, even if everyone that uses that bathroom buys Charmin, how much of a profit do they actually get from rolls of toilet paper? I am sure that it will be a tourist destination though for the first month, whenever something opens in TXSQ its always mobbed for a month and then returns to more natural levels. McDonald's, Toys R Us, Nasdaq, it'll be the same here, people will use the bathrooms even though they wont really have to. And then they'll walk away thinking, wow, NYC is cool! I hate tourists...

lofter1
November 16th, 2006, 01:23 AM
Don't forget that the Macy's Thanksgiving Day Parade goes right by that storefront and the new sign will by seen by TV viewers of the parade.

No doubt some marketing deal has been cut with NBC for "x" number of shots showing the new sign / "x" number of seconds of air time.

spatulashack
November 19th, 2006, 05:14 PM
This is one hell of an expensive advertising campaign. Im sure the signage and ground rent are over $20,000 a month. Fiscally I don't see how they will make a return, even if everyone that uses that bathroom buys Charmin...

The point of almost any advertising campaign is to increase awareness of the product and identify a brand image. Charmin doesn't expect to make money from this. It's no different than having a major company sponsor an event. They are paying lots of money and not getting any immediate return on their investment but the idea is that it will help the company in the long run. Sorry, I'm an Advertising major so I just had to correct you. :D

Ninjahedge
November 20th, 2006, 10:37 AM
He knows that.

What he is saying is that he cannot see where advertisement for something like that at Times Square will have the intended result.

Me, I can't STAND the ad campaign. Every time I see those cartoon bears dancing around I can only think of 2 things.

1. "Does a bear sh*t in the woods?"
2. A bear wiping his butt after taking a sh*t in the woods.

Somehow neither makes me want to get up and buy a mega-pak of Charmin at the local BJ-Costco-Sams-BigBox club. :p

OmegaNYC
November 20th, 2006, 11:10 AM
.

Me, I can't STAND the ad campaign. Every time I see those cartoon bears dancing around I can only think of 2 things.

1. "Does a bear sh*t in the woods?"
2. A bear wiping his butt after taking a sh*t in the woods.

Somehow neither makes me want to get up and buy a mega-pak of Charmin at the local BJ-Costco-Sams-BigBox club. :p

You and I think alike. Get out of my mind, NINJA!!! :eek:

OmegaNYC
November 20th, 2006, 02:17 PM
Ummm, this may sound dumb. But I got a question..... Please don't laugh at me.... How in the heck do you refill your Metrocard?? :o

Ninjahedge
November 20th, 2006, 02:19 PM
I THINK you can do it at a machine, but I usually just go up to a booth, give them the card and the $$ and they put it on there.

Pretty simple really. Just check your cards expy date!!!!!

OmegaNYC
November 20th, 2006, 02:24 PM
I THINK you can do it at a machine, but I usually just go up to a booth, give them the card and the $$ and they put it on there.

Pretty simple really. Just check your cards expy date!!!!!

I tried doing it by the machine, but I don't know where to put my card in. Do you use the same slot that the card popped out in? I don't want to look like a fool, with about 50 people standing behind me. :p

daver
November 20th, 2006, 02:25 PM
Ummm, this may sound dumb. But I got a question..... Please don't laugh at me.... How in the heck do you refill your Metrocard?? :o
As long as the card isn't expired or near expired, just put it in the machine and do your thing (pick "refill.") When it doesn't take your cash, switch to credit. When it doesn't take your credit, switch to cash. When it doesn't ... oh wait, we are out of options. This is point where we kick the effing machine and go see the guy in the booth who looks at us like we are retarded while staring pointedly at the machine...

P.S. If this was the how not to look like a tourist thread I would remind you that real NYr's just throw their empty cards on the floor of the station and get a new one.

Ninjahedge
November 20th, 2006, 02:40 PM
No, they throw it on the floor infron of everyone, they go to the "depository" boxes and stuff it in any crack available but the one that they are supposed to use, they flick it on the track.

They just don't DROP it! They have to drop it while standing 5 feet from a garbage can!!!! (Hey, it isn't THEIR job to keep it clean, that is for someone below them, no matter how low they really are).

I hate when people do that (can you tell?) ;)

daver
November 20th, 2006, 02:50 PM
I hate when people do that (can you tell?) ;)
lol. Some lady on the SIR platform in St. George a couple weeks back as some guy throws his spent MetroCard on the ground as passing through the doors: "Oh! So THAT is what we do with our trash now! OK EVERYONE! EVERYONE! LET'S ALL THROW OUR TRASH ON THE GROUND! THAT'S WHAT WE DO WITH OUR TRASH!" She was livid, visibly red. I'm not even 100% sure the guy even noticed. Maybe he had an iPod, but he just kept walking, lol.

Wife's friend came to visit her maybe a month or so ago from AZ, she was amazed. "B-b-b-but! People just throw their trash on the ground! Or in the street! EXCUSE ME! EXCUSE ME LITTLE BOY! Did you just throw that wrapper in the street?" "Yes." "Well, pick it up and put it in the garbage can RIGHT THERE!" 11 year old kid stares at her like she is from Mars and walks off. "EXCUSE ME! EXCUSE ME!" "Um, people do stuff like that here, you are probably just going to have to let it go." "HUH?!?!?"

Ninjahedge
November 20th, 2006, 03:17 PM
Actually, more people have to NOT let it go.

I see people walking down the street emptying their pockets of bank receipts and gum wrappers as they go.

Nevermind Jaywalking, have the cops give tickets to intensional litterbugs!!!


Oh, and while they are at it, they can also give tickets to the people that use the public trash cans as their own dumpsters, filling them up early, and forcing people into a bizzare form of Garbage-Jenga as they try to do the right thing and throw out their trash....

daver
November 20th, 2006, 03:29 PM
Actually, more people have to NOT let it go.

I see people walking down the street emptying their pockets of bank receipts and gum wrappers as they go.

Nevermind Jaywalking, have the cops give tickets to intensional litterbugs!!!


Oh, and while they are at it, they can also give tickets to the people that use the public trash cans as their own dumpsters, filling them up early, and forcing people into a bizzare form of Garbage-Jenga as they try to do the right thing and throw out their trash....
"NO HOUSEHOLD TRASH." Words to live by.

I put my stuff in the trash can, but I don't think I'm ready to start publicly accosting people who litter on the streets. Maybe it is a failing in myself, but I just flat out don't give a crap enough to get into it with someone about it. Convince me otherwise, I am open to your arguments. I would certainly be supportive of police action, give 'em a summons.

Punzie
July 14th, 2007, 12:42 AM
The New York Times
July 8, 2007

Weekend In New York | Subway Survival

Where the City Schleps

By SETH KUGEL (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/k/seth_kugel/index.html?inline=nyt-per)

HERE'S an abbreviated list of what tourists interviewed recently from Battery Park (http://travel.nytimes.com/travel/guides/north-america/united-states/new-york/new-york-city/attraction-detail.html?vid=1154654608111&inline=nyt-classifier) to the Metropolitan Museum of Art (http://travel.nytimes.com/travel/guides/north-america/united-states/new-york/new-york-city/attraction-detail.html?vid=1154654608225&inline=nyt-classifier) said were problems they encountered on (otherwise wonderful) trips to New York:

• It's hard to figure out which restaurants the natives go to.

• The subway.

• Chinatown is too touristy.

• The subway.

• That cheap hotel found online turned out to be shabby.

• The subway.

• The subway.

• The subway.

• It's illegal to carry a concealed weapon.

• The subway.

Souvenir hawkers take note, it looks as if it's time to add something to the back of the “I ♥ New-York” T-shirt: “But I hate the subway.” It's too dirty, visitors say. Too loud. Too hot. Too confusing which MetroCard to get. Can anyone tell me if it's safe to take late at night? And what was that muffled announcement about “express to Brooklyn?”

Alma Buss of Plano, Tex., in town with her husband, Leroy, and her granddaughter Bethany, wished they could make it work. “We try,” she said, “we really try.” But it's unbearably hot — especially in the depths of the No. 7 train platform in Times Square (http://travel.nytimes.com/travel/guides/north-america/united-states/new-york/new-york-city/attraction-detail.html?vid=1154654608271&inline=nyt-classifier).

“A, B, C, D, where do they go? Which one's an express?” asked Patricia Wundersee, a military pay technician at Fort Riley, Kan.

“When should you not get on the subway?” asked Doug Ivey, in from Tennessee (http://travel.nytimes.com/travel/guides/north-america/united-states/tennessee/overview.html?inline=nyt-geo).

“It's rundown,” said Fernando Guerrero of Mexico City (http://travel.nytimes.com/travel/guides/north-america/mexico/mexico-city/overview.html?inline=nyt-geo). “Considering what country we're in, it's really unsuitable.”

Those who moved here as adults remember how it feels. It takes weeks, if not months, for that multicolor spaghetti jumble to morph into a comprehensible map and for the screeching of brakes to fade away. But now, despite complaints galore, few New Yorkers would trade it for a cleaner, close-at-midnight-and-go-hardly-anywhere system.

But if you're only here for a few days, how to survive? Take taxis and tour buses? You can't really claim you've been here until you've swiped a MetroCard and received a “swipe card again at this turnstile” message and a courtesy jolt to the pelvis, or experienced the utter discombobulation of emerging back onto street level and having no idea which way is north or south or east or west.

So, visitors, here is your crash course (New Yorkers: add your own tips here (http://travelcomments.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/07/05/weekend-in-new-york-subway-survival/#respond):)

Plan your route You've journeyed back in time to pre-G.P.S. navigation.

Get a map from the token booth attendant; it's free and comes with citywide technical support. New Yorkers have an entire lobe of the brain dedicated to calculating subway routes, and a soft spot for tourists who can't find their way. So stare at the open map, express confusion loudly, and 9 times out of 10 someone will magically offer to help. And though that person who comes to your aid may have an Indian accent, she won't be talking to you over a scratchy line from Bangalore (http://travel.nytimes.com/travel/guides/asia/india/bangalore/overview.html?inline=nyt-geo).

If you're too immersed in the modern age to work with paper maps and human interaction, try www.tripplanner.mta.info (http://www.tripplanner.mta.info/) or www.hopstop.com (http://www.hopstop.com/) for MapQuest-like help. Both are surprisingly functional on BlackBerrys and Treos, though Trip Planner is New York-only and requires fewer clicks. Check for notices about service changes and get a second (human) opinion.

MetroCard math Here's the basic rundown: Official price is $2 a trip, but if you buy five, the sixth is free, effectively cutting the price to $1.67 a trip. (Multiple riders can swipe the same card.) Compare that with the individual unlimited passes — the one-day for $7, worth it if you're going to take at least five trips before 3 a.m. the next morning, and the $24 seven-day pass, if you're sure you're taking at least 15 trips.

Dirt and noise The subway has been around since 1904, so expecting it to be as clean and quiet as Washington (http://travel.nytimes.com/travel/guides/north-america/united-states/washington-dc/overview.html?inline=nyt-geo)'s or even Mexico City's is unreasonable. (Mr. Guerrero, are you listening?) That's not grime you're seeing, it's historical charm. And those creatures scurrying down the tracks are, um, underground squirrels. As for the screeching cars, how else can you tell the train is coming? A computerized announcement? Flashing lights? So unromantic.

Safety No one will fault you if you want to take a cab back to the hotel at 3 a.m. But you don't have to. Around 3 a.m., the Manhattan trains can be so jammed with late-night revelers (and a few jealous bakery workers) that you'll feel silly for even having worried about your safety. Two incentives to take a cab late at night: trains are less frequent, and should you fall asleep on the way, the cabby will wake you up at your destination; subway cleaners will wake you up at 4:30 a.m. — in the Far Rockaway section of Queens.

The heat In summer, stations can be a tad stuffy. Some prefer the terms “stifling,” or “living inferno.” One possible solution: come back in the winter. Another: buy cold water from the underground newspaper vendors (it looks as if they wouldn't have a refrigerator back there, but nearly all do). Once you realize those people are stuck there all day, it's harder to feel sorry for yourself.

The wait Sure, but a taxi doesn't provide entertainment. Check out the crazy fingernails on that woman. Is that guy really playing the theme from “Happy Days” on his sitar? Who'd have thought there'd be so much legit artwork? And a special for science lovers: understand how anthill traffic works by observing the teeming underground corridors of the Times Square stop, where miraculously people never bump into one another.

Bearing the noise There are five kinds: a) The rumbling that says the train is coming; b) the honking that indicates a train is bypassing the station; c) the cursing that follows; d) the unimportant, clearly enunciated announcements (“thank you for riding New York City transit”); and e) the vitally important incomprehensible announcements (blah-blah-will-be-skipping-blah-blah-now-running-express-blah-blah-shuttle-bus).

Solutions: bring earplugs, and ask for help.

Finding a restroom: Good luck.

Copyright 2007 (http://www.nytimes.com/ref/membercenter/help/copyright.html) The New York Times Company (http://www.nytco.com/)

http://travel.nytimes.com/2007/07/08/travel/08weekend.html?ref=travel

frish
August 14th, 2008, 03:55 AM
Sorry for bringing up the old topic, but as a first time visitor to US and NYC last August I must say I had no problems riding on a subway. I was going with my bf from Pittsburgh from JFK to Manhattan by subway around 9 PM. I remember that I wasn't really thrilled to do it at that time of the day, but it was the cheapest way to get to Downtown. As we didn't really know where to take of and which train to take next to get W47th st, we asked some black girl across us and she tried to figure it out for us. Then some black family came in to give their opinion which way would be the fastest. In the end some black thuggish looking guy joined the discussion. 5 minutes from then we had half of the train car trying to help us out. I doubt that they were that bored. ;)

Anyway, my experience was pleasant and I can't wait to visit The Apple again.

Triborough
August 14th, 2008, 01:27 PM
I always try to help people find their way, and there are a lot of people who do. I also have given advice to tourists trying to figure out the MetroCard machines, too.

The Benniest
August 14th, 2008, 02:27 PM
That is one thing I definitely noticed about New Yorkers when I was in New York by myself in July. When I was visiting in March, I was with a large tourist group where the leaders knew exactly where they were going (most of the time), so I never had to ask for directions

I don't know why people always say New York is dangerous and New Yorkers are mean. It drives me crazy! I had maybe one person who would not help me find directions, and I had to ask a lot of people for directions, whether it be which downtown/uptown is, or "Is this train going to Brooklyn?" :)

Triborough
August 14th, 2008, 09:18 PM
I don't know why people always say New York is dangerous and New Yorkers are mean. It drives me crazy! I had maybe one person who would not help me find directions, and I had to ask a lot of people for directions, whether it be which downtown/uptown is, or "Is this train going to Brooklyn?" :)

What is the most fun is when several people get involved and each tries to come up with some more efficient routing.

AmeriKenArtist
August 16th, 2008, 01:15 AM
The NYC subway has, for the most part, a very well-signed system. I have my pet peeves but I'll keep them to myself. I spent much of my career constructing/engineering directional signage. I, as a visitor, find myself giving directions to many people each day that I am in New York. I am always tempted to say "read the f****** signs!" but I don't. I help as any civilized person should.

Triborough
August 16th, 2008, 03:55 PM
I have this amazing publication created by Massimo Vignelli for the TA in 1970. It is a binder roughly 12x18 inches and was quite fun lugging it home on the subway! Should have gotten two or three of them, though.

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/137/334746135_cf26858666.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/triborough/sets/72157594441672864/)

AmeriKenArtist
August 17th, 2008, 12:51 AM
the typical "Helvetica" typeface is used here.

Triborough
August 17th, 2008, 10:40 AM
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

It is not Helvetica.
It is a totally different typeface.

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/167/449768169_f6c40c1a8a.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/triborough/449768169/)

frish
August 21st, 2008, 05:06 PM
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

It is not Helvetica.
It is a totally different typeface.

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/167/449768169_f6c40c1a8a.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/triborough/449768169/)

Not sure, but I think I saw that in MOMA. Does anyone know which font is that? It's just freaking awesome.

EDIT: I think its Akzidenz-Grotesk (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akzidenz_Grotesk). Correct me if I'm wrong.

brianac
December 5th, 2008, 06:22 AM
December 4, 2008, 7:00 am

How Helvetica Took Over the Subway

By Jennifer 8. Lee (http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/author/jennifer-8-lee/)

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2008/12/04/nyregion/chamberscomparison-480.jpg
Standard, left, was the dominant subway typeface before Helvetica, right. The differences between the two sans-serif typefaces are subtle. (Photos: Jennifer 8. Lee/The New York Times)

It was the letter J that opened the door for Helvetica into the subways.

Today, Helvetica — a 1950s-era typeface that has gained fame and popularity (http://movies.nytimes.com/2007/09/12/movies/12helv.html) because of its versatility — is the official standard in the New York City transit system. But that been true for only 20 years or so.

The legacy of the 104-year history of the subway, itself a belated amalgamation of three separate systems, has resulted in a hodgepodge of signs in different styles, materials and sizes (http://www.forgotten-ny.com/SUBWAYS/Subway%20signs/signsub.html). Some have been preserved because of their historical significance. Others remain because they were overlooked or forgotten in subsequent renovations (a stark sign in the Port Authority (http://www.flickr.com/photos/jenny8lee/3006898548/) was left over from the 1950s). We often overlook them in our harried daily commuting. But the passing glimpses of the signs are faint echoes of past fashions, mores and eras.

City Room took a daylong tour with Paul Shaw (http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/29/realestate/29scap.html?_r=1&oref=slogin), a New York historian who has an encyclopedic knowledge of signs in the in (http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/29/realestate/29scap.html)the city and the subway system (see his recent article) (http://www.aiga.org/content.cfm/the-mostly-true-story-of-helvetica-and-the-new-york-city-subway). He is known to scold people for confusing the terms “typeface (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Typeface),” “lettering” and “font (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Font).” (The word “font,” familiar in an age of software drop-down menus, has alas become conflated with “typeface” in general conversation.)

Only a typeface aficionado like Mr. Shaw can point out remnants of Helvetica’s predecessor — Standard (also known as Akzidenz Grotesk (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akzidenz_Grotesk)) — scattered around the underground labyrinth. Mr. Shaw says the subway design team original chose Standard as the universal typeface in 1966, not Helvetica. A manual of that time declared that “of the various weights of sans serif available, Standard Medium has been found to offer the easiest legibility from any angle, whether the passenger is standing, walking or riding.” (Sign legibility when your audience is in motion (http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/12/magazine/12fonts-t.html?ex=1344744000&en=98f91dfee8879900&ei=5124&partner=permalink&exprod=permalink) continues to be a vexing problem.)

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2008/12/04/nyregion/subwaysign-190.jpg
Helvetica only became the standard typeface for the subway system in recent decades. (Photo: Shannon Stapleton/Reuters)

Helvetica was originally created in Switzerland. It was a neutral typeface from a neutral country (http://coupland.blogs.nytimes.com/2006/08/27/i-luv-helvetica/) and gained runaway popularity starting in the 1960s for its modern grace (http://coupland.blogs.nytimes.com/2006/08/27/i-luv-helvetica/). But the subway system looked elsewhere.
“It was an incredibly courageous thing to do at a time when Helvetica was riding high,” Mr. Shaw said.

The differences between Standard and Helvetica, both sans-serif faces that lack edges (or “serifs”) at the tip of their letters, are subtle, (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:AGcomparison08.svg) most noticeable in the ends of characters like the C, 2, 3 and 5. The J was a particular problem in Standard — because in certain subway maps and signs, the J wasn’t hooky enough (http://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?85782), Mr. Shaw says. The Helvetica J, on the other hand, had quite a firm curve (http://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?85774), which made it the J of choice for an updated subway maps and trains.

Thus, between 1980 and 1989, Helvetica “crept into the system.”
Before the sans-serif rivalry of recent decades, there was the golden age of the serif typeface in the subway systems. The earliest station signs were often in ornate terra cotta forms, colored in part because early subway designers wanted people to be able to identify their stops while they were in a fast-moving train (http://www.forgotten-ny.com/SUBWAYS/oldsubwaysigns/subwaysigns.html).

From 1901 to 1908, John L. Heins and Christopher G. LaFarge designed the earliest subway motifs in the popular Beaux-Arts style (http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9407EED7173BF933A25753C1A9629C8B 63&fta=y), evoking classical architecture using ceramics, metal and wood. It was an aesthetic of swoops and curlicues, cornucopias and floral medallions (http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/03/arts/design/03subw.html?_r=1&oref=slogin). These terra cotta signs can still been seen at Bleecker Street (http://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?85381) and Spring Street (http://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?11093) on the No. 6. line, and the Borough Hall (http://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?30489) stop on the No. 4 and 5 lines.

A successor, Squire J. Vickers (one of the coolest names in New York City history!) pared down their ornate style (http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/03/arts/design/03subw.html?_r=1&oref=slogin), in part because of his minimalist aesthetic and in part because of the economics of the Great Depression. Mr. Vickers, who was the architect for perhaps three-quarters of the system, is largely known for his mosaics (http://www.nytimes.com/slideshow/2007/08/02/arts/20070803SUBWAY_index.html), which were practical in that they were easier to clean because of their flat surfaces.

The mosaics of those days were hand cut and hand assembled by craftsmen, with precision yet irregularities. Over time, as stations have been renovated, the original mosaic motif has been mimicked, with mixed results. Among the nicer additions: a Chinatown station that now has Chinese characters in mosaic form (http://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?48532) at Canal Street. But on the No. 1 platform at 34th Street, Mr. Shaw pointed out an original hand-assembled mosaic that was probably an original from the opening of the station. Then he pointed out a neighboring mosaic sign that had been clearly machine-cut because the curves were too smooth and it was missing fine details (http://www.flickr.com/photos/jenny8lee/3006066561).

He shuddered. But it was nothing compared with the horror he felt at a mosaic at the 18th Street stop (http://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?142) on the No. 1, where the proportions of the typeface were simply all wrong.

At some stations, there is a odd splicing of signs and styles — half traditional and half modernist. That’s because of the station expansions that happened after increasing ridership forced the IRT’s five-car local stations to be lengthened to accommodate longer trains in the 1940s and ’50s.

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2008/12/04/nyregion/subwaysign2-190.jpg
A sign from an R1 subway car, built in the 1930s for use by the IND system. (Photo: Preston Rescigno/Getty Images)

Meanwhile, a bewildering array of signs had accumulated, according to Mr. Shaw: porcelain enamel and hand painted, directional and informational, serif and sans serif, blue and green. There was no unified style, or as Mr. Shaw puts it less tactfully, it was a “visual mess.”

The current unified New York subway system began to take shape (http://www.nycsubway.org/faq/briefhist.html) when the city took over the bankrupt Interborough Rapid Transit (IRT) and the Brooklyn-Manhattan Transit (BMT) in 1940, eventually merging them over time with the city-operated Independent lines (IND). The IND — which started in the 1920s and includes the A, B, C and D lines — always used sans serif (think of old images from “Take the A Train,” not a serif anywhere to be seen).

In addition, after a decade of construction, a new mile-long tunnel connection opened up in 1967 (http://select.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=F30812FC385B1B728DDDA80894DB405B 848AF1D3), changing the travel patterns of thousands of commuters by allowing trains from Brooklyn to have access to a number of the north-south Manhattan lines and creating a number of new (free!) transfer connections.

“No one could understand those signs because of the confusion,” Mr. Shaw said.

And the signs weren’t entirely updated for the change. A mild panic set in at the Atlantic Avenue station when officials arrived early to find old signs still hanging, prompting them to cover the outdated signs and maps with newspapers, according to research Mr. Shaw did at the time.

The resulting subway map, as one writer put it in 1968, was “a battlefield filled with typographers and color-experts locked in mortal combat.”

With a spaghetti bowl of subway lines, transit officials began debating a move to color-coded system in the 1960s (http://select.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=F60C11F73C5F137A93C2AB178ED85F42 8685F9), where each line would be assigned its own color.

But then the subway declared a unified system of signs. An early design template for sign was touse black and red writing on a white background.

But that was changed to the white on black we know today when transit officials determined that those would be easier to read in low light of the subway system. Some of the few remnants from that era can be seen at Bowling Green stop (http://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?65587) on the No. 4 and 5 lines.

Helvetica ousted Standard by 1989, though today the emergence of digital signs — like those on the L line platforms and the N/R subway lines — has demanded the adaptation of new typefaces, some which impress Mr. Shaw with their form and functionality. Others less so.

And around the subway system, Standard can still be spotted. At the Chambers Street station on the No. 1, 2 and 3 lines, a Helvetica sign and a Standard sign sit directly opposite each other on neighboring pillars. And many subway cars still have their four-digit numbers written in Standard.

And sometimes, Helvetica and Standard may have mated and produced an offspring. At one subway stop, Mr. Shaw stopped to squint at a sign that read “Station Dept Cleaners Rm (http://flickr.com/photos/jenny8lee/3006905374).” The sign was mostly in the Standard typeface, except for the capital R, he pointed out.

The Standard R has a straight diagonal leg, while this one was curved, like the one in Helvetica. “Always look at the capital R,” he said, “because it can tell you a lot.” (Others who are finely attuned to typefaces (http://coupland.blogs.nytimes.com/2006/08/27/i-luv-helvetica/) are often jarred when Helvetica is misused in movies, appearing as an anachronism. (http://www.nytimes.com/2006/01/01/movies/01edidin.html))

“We’ve got a mutant,” he declared, as he took out his camera and snapped a photo.

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2008/11/16/nyregion/86thstreet.480.jpg
Mosaics of terra cotta with serif lettering were used in the early days of the subway, and many — like this one — still survive. (Photo: Todd Heisler/The New York Times)

http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/12/04/how-helvetica-took-over-the-subway/#more-4927

Copyright 2008 (http://www.nytimes.com/ref/membercenter/help/copyright.html) The New York Times Company (http://www.nytco.com/)

Bronxbombers
December 5th, 2008, 02:58 PM
Thanks very very much for all of the posts. When I will be in NYC during late July 2009. I will take subways for visitors. Itl will be my first time to take public transportation in New York City. I am from L.A. And public transportation really really sucks in Los Angeles,CA.

scumonkey
December 5th, 2008, 03:47 PM
BB I think you need to read this info about quoting:
http://wirednewyork.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6707

Bronxbombers
December 5th, 2008, 11:42 PM
I will buy NYC subway maps for New York City subways. Before I will take subways in New York City.