Bush Step Down - January 31st

[BrooklynRider]

Massive protest to demand that Bush step down and take his program with him. As Bush gives his State of the Union, the country is in a State of Emergency. Join thousands of others as we drown out Bush and let the world know we demand he Step Down NOW!

When: Tuesday, January 31, 2006
Where: Times Square
Time: 8:00PM - 9:30PM

Bring noisemakers, pots, pan, posters and, most important - FRIENDS & FAMILY. How bad does it have to get before you speak up?

http://worldcantwait.net/index.php?option=com_frontpage&Itemid=1

http://worldcantwait.net/flier/souflier.pdf

[MidtownGuy]

Thank You, BrooklynRider for posting the info. I will certainly be there.

[Schadenfrau]

I'll be joining the crowd, too. Thanks for posting this.

[ASchwarz]

I'll be there and I'll spread the word.

[MrSpice]

So you want Cheney to be president for the next 3 years? He may disappoint you.

[ZippyTheChimp]

I expect at least one of you to get arrested, or I will lose all respect.

Mr Spice, you have a good point.

[BrooklynRider]

So you want Cheney to be president for the next 3 years? He may disappoint you.

Perhaps, you might want to read the FAQ section of the website. You are very quick to make this blanket statement, in total ignorance of the truth. Your commentary offers proof that you've waded into this thread, willfully ignoring the link and information that explains the entire basis for the protest.

I'm sure you are very comfortable with our administration, being one of the millions of Russion people who happily brought to us the failed communist dictatorships of the past. I'll assume this type of behavior in Russia finally reached a tipping point. Now we have former communists, who were all too happy to stand on day long lines for their daily potato ration, living in America telling us how great it is. Oh brother.

I'm guessing the former residents of commie dictatorships feel all warm and cozy with Cheney. He is directly evolved from the Stalin mold.

[lofter1]

^^ S N A P ! ! !

[sfenn1117]

Hmm I'm not Russian and I support Bush? I respect your liberal opinions, but sorry, Bush isn't going anywhere. Neither are conservative politics in general.

[BrooklynRider]

Hmm I'm not Russian and I support Bush? I respect your liberal opinions, but sorry, Bush isn't going anywhere. Neither are conservative politics in general.

That's not the issue. Mr. Spice has spouted off in places, where he cited his emigration from Russia. He has stated he supports torture. He supports the presidents spying on Americans. In short, he supports turning this country in the Russia he left behind. That is where those references come from.

As for my reaction, the website provided explains that we are not seeking the resignation of Bush - just to see Cheney ascend. It's more in-depth than that.

[NYatKNIGHT]

Bush isn't going anywhere. Neither are conservative politics in general.
This kind of protest isn't against conservative politics in general.

[Edward]

He has stated he supports torture...In short, he supports turning this country in the Russia he left behind.
Actually, Russia does not have torture as an official policy - so US would be better if if was like Russia in this department.

[MrSpice]

BrooklynRider:
1) The mere fact that I immigrated from Russia has nothnig to do with the fact that your protest against Bush won't have no effect on him or his stepping down. NYC is a predominantly democratic town, most people here don't like Bush and any demonstration short of Million Man March won't even attract any attention from the press. You see anti-Bush protesters on Union Sq every day. Why would he resign so soon when the congress is controlled by the people that support him? I think you are just bored and looking for ways to spend your free and act out your frustrations in this rather childish manner.

2) I very much deplore the anti-democratic events that are going on in Russia. Making this kind of judgement that I "want to turn USA into Russia that I left behind" is kind of silly and immature. I very much support the free markets, the free and open democracy with liberty and justice for all - unlike the current Russia where the government controls the press and the business and markets are not really free. Just because I came from Russia one day, does not mean I support what is going on there. And I strongly believe in democracy and feel you, Mr BrooklynRider, constantly exaggerate what is going in our country today to make your politically charged statements that are so left-wing that they remind me of the Russia I left in the 90s.

3) I don't support torture. But to demand the CIA to read people their rights as if they arrested someone who stole chewing gum in Brooklyn is totally unrealistic. We are talking about people that blow themselves up and kill innocent civilians. These people are total lunatics. As far as I undestand, torture is mostly inaffective. But CIA, as far as I know, may use methods that can be considered torture by the European standards. In any case, no torture has been proven as of yet. The only information we have is that CIA secretly brought some terrorist suspects to Eastern European countries and they were detained there. You love to jump to conclusions even if they have nothing to do with the fact. If we get a proof that those suspects were indeed tortured, we can expect an investigation in Congress and McCain will have something to say about it. And CIA and its methods were not born today. They have existed for dozens of years and I doubt those methods were any different during Clinton years and I hope they were not.

[BrooklynRider]

Mr. Spice-

You keep peppering us with opinions without first educating yourself on the topic. I won't address your droning response other than to say IF YOU ACTUALLY READ THE WEBSITE FAQS (which you still have not done) you will see that this protest is not a "New York" protest, but rather a national protest taking place in cities across the country. You insist on tossing your opinions out on a subject website and protest you know NOTHING about - despite the information being readily available. I'm going to have to ignore you in this thread going forward because you want to talk about something you have proven to show NO INTEREST IN.

[MidtownGuy]

I think you are just bored and looking for ways to spend your free and act out your frustrations in this rather childish manner.


I can speak for myself and many acquaintances, that we are absolutely appalled at the actions of this administration and have decided to gather in a peaceful manner to express our dissatisfaction. Why do you have any problem at all with that?

Furthermore, every one of my friends who will be in attendance are extremely successful, self-actualized people. Not "bored", but disgusted, and they will carve out time from extremely busy schedules to attend.

Appalling to me are the millions of Americans, whether born here or not, who are marching along, zombified by the media, and in lock-step with the Bush Crime Family.

[MrSpice]

MidtownGuy: I don't have any problem with this protest, per say. I just think they any protest should have attainable/achievable goals. When the premise of the protest is "impeach Bush" - something that is just not going to happen in the next 3 years - think kind of protest won't be considered to be serious. And the vast majority of people that are just as unhappy with Bush and his policies as you are, won't be likely to support such a drastic step (impeachment). Therefore, this kind of protest will be looked at by most people as just one of many highly partisan, out-of-the-mainstream events. There are some realistic demands that those that don't support the Bush administration can make:
1) Investigate the Abramoff affair quickly and use the open congress hearings to make sure the public knows who is involved.
2) Demand an independent investigation of all these matters.
3) Reduce the forces in Iraq in the next few months, demand that the administration provides the timetable for withdrawal.
4) Anything else that you feel should be done and really can be done.

It's like going to an open house for an apartment and making a very low offer - the seller won't take you seriously.

[lofter1]

I very much support the free markets, the free and open democracy with liberty and justice for all - unlike the current Russia where the government controls the press and the business and markets are not really free.
Do you really believe that the USA operates under the premise of "free markets" and "free and open democracy with liberty and justice for all"?

I suggest you head down to NYC Housing Court for a few hours to get an idea as to how the "justice" system works (judges wanting to clear dockets and case loads, very little focus on either law or justice).

While we can all sing the old song that our experiment with Democracy is the noblest one around, in practice it is very far from what was foreseen (setting aside the fact that the USA originally set down that only male landowners could vote, etc., etc.) or what the promise could become.

The Citizenry has the right and duty to keep the elected officials in line.

What you are saying about Bush could easily have been said about Nixon in '69 - '72. But the tides turn ...

Does Bush listen? Doubt it.

But that shouldn't stop the People from making every effort to voice their Discontent -- something that the TV networks (who use the public airwaves owned by the People) seem to have very little interest in. Perhaps they don't want to rock the boat because they're all pretty much fat & happy.

[lofter1]

Investigate the Abramoff affair quickly and use the open congress hearings to make sure the public knows who is involved.
2) Demand an independent investigation of all these matters.

As you yourself have pointed out the Republicans control both sides of Congress, so the likelihood of anything "open" in regard to the crap surrounding Abramoff et al coming from the DC gang is very unlikely.

[ZippyTheChimp]

I don't have any problem with this protest, per say. I just think they any protest should have attainable/achievable goals. When the premise of the protest is "impeach Bush" - something that is just not going to happen in the next 3 years - think kind of protest won't be considered to be serious. You are still missing the point of this protest, and in fact most protests in America that have produced change.

When the "mainstream"of America, however it is defined at the particular time, gets involved, politicians take notice.

Civil rights protests in the 50s and 60s did not lead to the immediate enactment of laws. It put the issue on TV where the mainstream could see it.

Stop the War protests did not end hostilities in Vietnam, but when the participation in those protests moved from "hippies" and "draft-dodgers" to mainstream America, the war began to wind down.

Bush will not step down, and I doubt there will be any impeachment. In fact, if there is a change in leadership, everything that goes wrong will be blamed on the change itself. The purpose of this protest is to demonstate broad-based displeasure in the current polices if the administration.

[deezee]

MidtownGuy: I don't have any problem with this protest, per say. I just think they any protest should have attainable/achievable goals.

this is precisely the kind of thing that we were told when i started protesting the vietnam war in 1966. i won't even go into the other things that were done to us at that time. but to sit on your ass and do NOTHING is exactly how this country got into the mess it's in now. the "attainable goal" as you see it, is getting this action to occurr. but the real goal is to get people to THINK and ACT. oh, and by the way, i am sure that your line quoted above is the same one that the guys who signed the declaration of independence got from their loyalist friends. can't you just hear them saying in the vernacular of the day "never gonna happen so why bother"?
aren't you glad that they didn't listen either?

[MrSpice]

How can such a simple point can be repeatedly missed? I am not saying you should not protest. Civil prostest is what democracy is all about. I just don't feel the theme of this particular protest makes any sense (i.e., impeach Bush). I understand what you are saying - set the protest goal very high (impeachment) and then maybe the those in the government will notice and change a few things. I just feel that by aligning the protest around the extreme goal like this, very few people will be drawn to protest with you. And the general public won't support it. It reminds of the Peta protests where the general public loves animals, but when Peta protests against inhuman treatment of rats, people just switch the channel. This is just my opinion.

lofter1: Legal system is not and cannot be perfect. Especially in large cities, where the party leaders push judges whether the have credentials or not, the caseloads are large and the private sector pays much better wages, judges sitting on the bench are not always the best qualified people. In fact, there were several scandals involving the relationship between the Democratic party operatives and the the judicial selection process in Brooklyn. The selection of judges is one of the least transparent elections we have in this city. Every time I vote, there's a list of judges one has to choose from. No one knows who they are. And since most of the voters in this city are democrats, they just select the names from the list of judges in the "Democrats" column. Just because the US overall is one of the most efficient and free democracies, does not mean you won't have significant problems, corruption and misuse of power. I am sure the situation in the Housing court in rural New Hampshire is much mush better (and the taxes are much lower too).

[ZippyTheChimp]

How can such a simple point can be repeatedly missed? I am not saying you should not protest. Civil prostest is what democracy is all about. I just don't feel the theme of this particular protest makes any sense (i.e., impeach Bush). How can you repeatedly miss the point that has been explained to you, in different ways, by several people?

[NYatKNIGHT]

The actual displeasure by millions of Americans of this administration and its policies is not at all adequately conveyed in the media, only a large scale protest with an attention-getting theme makes the news whether that be a realistic goal or not.

[MrSpice]

NYatKNIGHT: What media are you referring to? Every newschannel I turn to has 5 know-it-all guys talking about Bush's low approval ratings. The fact that millions of Americans don't support Bush is hardly a secret. It seems like the New York Times has a story about Bush's lack of support every single day.

[NYatKNIGHT]

Every news channel, really? I'm not seeing that at all. The citing of lack of support is but a smidgeon of what such ineptitude deserves, IMO. "Low poll numbers" is pussyfooting around the actual contempt. The Clinton haters were on 24/7, and that was just a blowjob. Those 5 know-it-alls give equal time to what the Democrats are or are not doing, as though their lack of leadership deserves equal headlines. Though you may think the Democrats are weak, what does it matter, they have no control over what is happening.

Last Sunday: Chris Matthews show was about how the Democrats aren't taking advantage of Bush's low poll numbers. Then everyone agreed that the Abramoff scandal wouldn't touch Bush so badly, and so on and so on....I stand by what I said. What you see on t.v. does not nearly convey the actual anger, complete lack of trust, and utter contempt shared by millions, starting with the election of 2000.

[ZippyTheChimp]

Also, and this applies to either side of an issue, in polarizing times such as now, people tend to depict the media as biased. If you search around news of particular events, you will find many sources that report on the reporter rather than the event. The New York Times was villified as a "traitor newspaper" for releasing the story about domestic spying.

Nothing is as powerful as people gathering in large crowds of protest, especially diverse crowds.

[BrooklynRider]

NYPD is trying to force the protest south of 42nd Street. Bloomberg has really signed on to this Nazi movement. He has repeatedly tried to silence and sideline dissent and protest in the city.

[MrSpice]

Bloomberg has been a democrat all his life. He gave a lot of money to the democratic causes. he switched to the republican party only because it was the only chance for him to win. The 42nd street area is a major throrughfare. That's one of the main tourist attractions in the area as well. I am sure his only intention is to preserve the order in the city. You won't find any city that will give you a free-for-all rights to protest in the middle of busiest intersection. Any large protest is a logistical challenge for the police and for businesses in the area. Don't worry - there won't be that many people at this protest. Most people will be at home watching State of the Union :)

[MidtownGuy]

I am heading over to the protest now. I hope there is a good turnout, despite the weather. I will take some pictures if there is a crowd to boast of.

Regarding Bloomberg, he has done some things that I like, such as supporting the Highline's transformation, but overall I do not care for his handling of protests I have attended in the past. And let's not even talk about hosting the Republican Convention in NYC- something I will never forgive.

Will report back later...

[lofter1]

A graph of raw polling data comparing the standings of Nixon / Clinton / Bush2 at the same points in their presidencies (er, "regimes" as is written on the graph):

http://www.mysterypollster.com/photos/uncategorized/0131_pollkatz_clinton.jpg

Clinton: BLUE / Nixon: YELLOW / Bush 2: RED

[lofter1]

There are some realistic demands that those that don't support the Bush administration can make:
1) Investigate the Abramoff affair quickly and use the open congress hearings to make sure the public knows who is involved.
2) Demand an independent investigation of all these matters.

Read on to see how UNREALISTIC this proposal is ...

Proof That Bush's Removal of the Abramoff Prosecutor was a Political Deal to Scuttle the Investigation (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/martin-garbus/proof-that-bushs-removal_b_14818.html)

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/martin-garbus/proof-that-bushs-removal_b_14818.html (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/martin-garbus/proof-that-bushs-removal_b_14818.html)

On Friday, January 27, immediately after Bush announced Noel Hillman the federal Abramoff prosecutor was leaving his position to become a federal judge, I wrote that it was a political deal to stop the Abramoff prosecution. I posted an article (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/martin-garbus/bushs-blatant-attempt-to_b_14700.html) on Huffington Post on January 29th.

We now know there was a political deal between the Bush Administration and New Jersey Democrats to get rid of the Abramoff prosecutor, Noel Hillman, by offering him a federal judgeship in New Jersey.

It's a deal that had been in the making for over a year.

It came about this way. The Democrats wanted Magistrate Federal Judge Susan Wingenton to be a federal judge. The Bush Administration said no.

We also know that in 2002 Bush got rid of a prosecutor. U.S. Attorney Black, who was about to indict Abramoff in Guam. That indictment also related to Abramoff's purchasing of influence. It's the modus operandi of this administration. Bush got rid of him, put in his own man, and the Abramoff prosecution ended.

This year the Bush Administration agreed to give the Democrats who they wanted in exchange for the Democrats agreeing to remove the Abramoff prosecutor. Wingenton got her appointment; the Democrats agreed to the removal of Noel Hillman, and he accepted a judgeship.

The approval of the two Democratic Senators from New Jersey was necessary for Hillman's appointment. Corzine gave that quiet approval just before he became governor. Frank Lautenberg on his website (http://www.lautenberg.senate.gov/) issued a press release, today announcing both the Wingenton and Hillman appointments, under the title "President Nominates Federal Judges for New Jersey."

Both Corzine and Lautenberg knew they were removing Hillman.

Why?

Meanwhile the media has made no mention of the story.

[MidtownGuy]

Turnout was decent, I thought, considering the rain. The crowd represented every sector of society.The energy level was high and the speakers very impassioned. here are some images.

http://static.flickr.com/17/93873393_56acfddc51_b.jpg

http://static.flickr.com/36/93873394_5c34b51e92_b.jpg

http://static.flickr.com/40/93873395_b556746f84_b.jpg

http://static.flickr.com/33/93873396_97bf5cf8bb_b.jpg

http://static.flickr.com/11/93873397_6b7d60ed6a_b.jpg

http://static.flickr.com/30/93873398_0b6c0c50a0_b.jpg

http://static.flickr.com/36/93874019_20bae0badf_b.jpg

[BrooklynRider]

I went to the protest. Much more satisfying than watching Bush - of that I am sure.

I'm going to DC on Saturday for the national protest.

[MrSpice]

I was trying to find some headlines and news about this protest on the internet - could not find anything about it. I watched our local news - they said nothing about your protest. Is it just a few guys protesting at a local bar or something? :) I only see that Cyndy Sheehan was arrested when she was protesting in DC

[ZippyTheChimp]

You seem to be investing a lot of time in such an insignificant topic.

[MidtownGuy]

You'll never find good coverage of protests anymore in the mainstream media unless something gets busted up or burned... Even if there had been 80,000 out there, it might not be in the "news".
The fact that you didn't find any stories has nothing to do with how many people were out there, it has more to do with how bad the American media sucks in the year 2006.

I didn't go out there thinking we'd be on the front page of the Times. I knew we wouldn't. I went out there to express my discontent, network with like minded citizens, and gain the energy to continue with my head up while my country goes down the toilet.

As you can see from the above pics, it was slightly more than a "few guys proesting at a local bar" .

[MrSpice]

I am glad you had a chance to protest. It's nice that some cares about issues and federal politics in this town.

[NYatKNIGHT]

I watched our local news - they said nothing about your protest.
...hmmmm.....the t.v. news not conveying the anger people have toward this clown..... :p

[MrSpice]

try to find it:

http://abclocal.go.com/wabc/index?section=news&id=3254583
http://ny1.com/
http://www.wcbstv.com/

[BrooklynRider]

I was trying to find some headlines and news about this protest on the internet - could not find anything about it. I watched our local news - they said nothing about your protest. Is it just a few guys protesting at a local bar or something? :) I only see that Cyndy Sheehan was arrested when she was protesting in DC

These days it is hard to be surprised that the beliefs and convictions of some people are based entirely upon reporting by corporate owned media conglomerates, like broadcast and cable news networks or daily newspapers. Ignorance is a willful thing. You can show photographic proof to some people and they still won't believe it, because it wasn't on the cover of the New York Times. Of course, time comes when you realize those people are mere ciphers.

[NYatKNIGHT]

try to find it:
Oh, I don't need to, I'm sure it isn't there. They don't report anti-Bush.

[MrSpice]

So what's the latest update? Did Bush step down? I am asking because I just saw him on TV :)

[lofter1]

was he moving his lips? more lies? justifications? false promises? deals for oil?

i forget ... what success has he had lately?

[ablarc]

Machiavelli says it's more important for a ruler to seem pious than to be truthful.

[BrooklynRider]

Some more pics....

http://nyc.indymedia.org/en/2006/02/64138.html