PDA

View Full Version : Harlem



atraene
May 3rd, 2006, 11:03 PM
I'm in Harlem nearly every day because of work. I know a lot of the areas in Harlem and near by areas, but my question is is it a good move to live there? It's gotten better, that's for sure but never once lived there. IT looks like an interesting place with a lot of history behind it.

expose05
May 3rd, 2006, 11:15 PM
Alot of non newyorkers and outsiders still have the perception and idea of old harlem of late 1980's and early 1990's. Harlem is going through a rebirth and the crime stats are alot lower compared to the 1990's. Plus the brownstones are very beautiful.

atraene
May 3rd, 2006, 11:19 PM
so its not that bad to live there?

MidtownGuy
May 3rd, 2006, 11:27 PM
Depends on a block by block basis.

atraene
May 3rd, 2006, 11:30 PM
I found a few places in or around the Harlem area. 1 being in Sugar Hill, another in Washington Heights and another in MArble Hill.

Washington Hieghts would be a better area right?

Schadenfrau
May 4th, 2006, 01:04 AM
Like everyone has said, it's block by block.

Are you sure you're looking at Marble Hill? Though that's technically in Manhattan, it is physically located in the Bronx.

atraene
May 4th, 2006, 01:48 PM
I heard and read before that anything above 94th street isn't so good. Is that true?

Can someone give me a link to a site that gives information on Harlem in these days?

BrooklynRider
May 4th, 2006, 04:07 PM
http://www.hometoharlem.com/HARLEM/HTHADMIN.NSF/harlem/homepage?open

NewYorkYankee
August 4th, 2006, 03:23 PM
Alright, after waiting forever to decide to come back to NYC I had to take the last option with housing. I had to go through a student housing service in NYC, Pace dorms were full. Alas, even with this housing company I had to take their last option. Now, before I ask this, if your going to reply with "If you're scared to live there, you don't need to be in NYC", "This is an ignorant comment by an uneducated person", "This neighborhood is safe as ever, NYC crime is down blah blah blah" etc. I don't want to hear it. I want to hear useful information about this neighborhood. My building is located on 131st street and St Nicholas Avenue in Harlem. The only time I've been to Harlem is with my black friend on 125th. I'm white from a southern town, where I rarely see a single black person. So, Im somewhat nervous, J.B.'s sad death does not help. So, anyone can provide me with tips, info on the area I would appreciate it.

Derek2k3
August 4th, 2006, 04:29 PM
130th-131st Street & Nicholas Avenue is where I usually park when I take the subway downtown. I know there are a few tall public housing buildings lining one side and a park on the other. Also, St. Nicholas here doesn't seem half as busy or litter strewn as the blocks east of it.

I never feel scared walking through Harlem, but then again, I'm not white. I do feel a little uneasy while walking pass the large colonies of "roaches" that congregate on the corner at night but if you don't look at them and look like you have places to be they won't bother you.

NewYorkYankee
August 4th, 2006, 06:44 PM
Do you think I'd feel better if I brought my car to the city? Lets not think about cost, traffic etc. Do you think I'd feel more comfortable having it rather than relying on calling car services?

lofter1
August 4th, 2006, 07:14 PM
Sounds like you're assuming you'll always have a parking spot right in front of your door and will be able to zip into the building. Doubt it will be like that.

milleniumcab
August 5th, 2006, 02:57 AM
Alot of non newyorkers and outsiders still have the perception and idea of old harlem of late 1980's and early 1990's. Harlem is going through a rebirth and the crime stats are alot lower compared to the 1990's. Plus the brownstones are very beautiful.

A lot of outsiders still have the perception and idea of old New York City of 1970's and 1980's.. New York City is reborn and crime stats are lowest it has been in the last 50 years...

BUt when it comes to safety margins, Harlem is still one of the unsafe areas when compared to many other neighborhoods in the city...

Is it safer?.. most definitely... Is it safest?... No way in hell..

NewYorkYankee
August 5th, 2006, 11:34 AM
Wonderful! Ugh My car is sounding pretty good.

NoyokA
August 5th, 2006, 02:40 PM
Wonderful! Ugh My car is sounding pretty good.

A car in the city is never a good idea for a student. I don’t know why you would want a car in the city to ease your trepidation, if anything it would be more symbolic of security than it being an actuality. Parking is never easy to come by in anyplace in Manhattan. Driving home from classes late at night, you would feel more safe looking for a parking space and having to settle for one many blocks from your house in an area perhaps dangerous and unknown to you, instead of walking three blocks from the subway station at 135th and St. Nicholas, which is a major, well lit Avenue? Looking for a parking space in and around the culdesacs of housing projects, where you will be forced to look, is asking for trouble. I have no problem walking around Harlem, but I always feel some amount of trepidation when I’m forced to walk by projects, where there are no lights and no storefronts, and plenty of places for some one to jump out and mug you.

Your fear of Harlem is somewhat self-inflicted and it sounds like with your current attitude it will spur a vicious cycle. If you act smartly and act with confidence and treat people as they are you will have no problems. If you walk around miserable and afraid people will pick up on this and the criminals which exist in Harlem as they do in most every neighborhood will prey on you as a victim which you would warrant.

Hopefully you can adjust to Harlem and vanquish your fears and prejudices and just live your life, fear free. Harlem is by no means a death sentence like you're making it out to be, its a neighborhood like anyother only with a demographic largely non-white. There are many students living in Harlem as it still is a cheap alternative, just follow their example and you'll be fine. That said its not the only neighborhood with a significant student population, perhaps an APT. in Queens or Brooklyn would be a better solution for you.

NewYorkYankee
August 5th, 2006, 03:16 PM
I wouldnt park my car on the street. If I bring it I'll put it in a garage. near my building. Thanks for the reply Stern, you're helpful. BTW, attending CCNY this year?

NoyokA
August 5th, 2006, 03:33 PM
I wouldnt park my car on the street. If I bring it I'll put it in a garage. near my building. Thanks for the reply Stern, you're helpful. BTW, attending CCNY this year?

If you have a garage, parking obviously wouldn't be an issue on the homefront. I still wouldn't recommend it, these are all low-end estimates; insurance in NYC is Extremely expensive, think $200 a month, the garage expenses $100 a month, gas $100 a month, think atleast $500 a month when taking busses and subways would only cost you $76 a month and nothing more. Then there's parking at Pace and everywhere else, there's cost, time looking for a space, and the possibility that your car will be ripped off once you find one. There's the commute, they'll be days when you will be late to class because the traffic is so heavy and everyday will be a headache behind the wheel along with the crazy cab drivers. NYC is mass-transit oriented and it is not intended for cars. There is no way I can recommend having a car for an everyday commute in NYC, but the choice of course is yours.

Lastly I've transferred to the SUNY Buffalo for the fall semester since there Master's program cuts off two years from CCNY's, I'll also be taking summer semesters to cut off another year, something that I found difficult at CCNY. I'll be back living in NYC in no time.

NewYorkYankee
August 5th, 2006, 03:46 PM
Well, the point of my car is that I will not take public transit at night. Im not going to do it, period. So I would have to take cabs back to my dorm building. Lets say Im out after dark 6 nights a week, especially in winter. Taxis are going to be very exspensive going all the way to tHarlem.

Schadenfrau
August 5th, 2006, 03:53 PM
And to add to what Stern said, there aren't even any parking garages remotely near where you'll be living. I assume that when you'll be living on St. Nicholas Terrace, not Avenue. 131st Street would come off of the Terrace.

I agree that a car is a very false sense of security. If you're worried about walking, you'd be doing far more of it with a car than you would if you just rode the subway.

What sort of tips are you looking for, NYYankee? Restaurants, bars, shops?

krulltime
August 5th, 2006, 05:02 PM
Well, the point of my car is that I will not take public transit at night. Im not going to do it, period. So I would have to take cabs back to my dorm building. Lets say Im out after dark 6 nights a week, especially in winter. Taxis are going to be very exspensive going all the way to tHarlem.

If you feel more comfortable take the subway (1,2,3) to maybe 72nd street (or even 96th street or up to Columbia University) and then take a taxi (lots of taxis on broadway) from there to where you live in Harlem. I am pretty sure that doing the calculation... taking public transportation and at least taking a taxi some of those nights that you need to, will still save you money than having a car. Just an idea. :)

Schadenfrau
August 5th, 2006, 05:32 PM
What exactly is the basis for not wanting to take public transit at night?

I can see not wanting to take the subway at midnight or something, but not taking it at 6-7PM, which is rush hour, is ridiculous.

I know that you don't want people to tell you that NYC isn't for you, but if you really refuse to take the subway at rush hour, well, the city is not for you.

i_commit_sins
August 5th, 2006, 10:27 PM
A car in the city is never a good idea for a student. I don’t know why you would want a car in the city to ease your trepidation, if anything it would be more symbolic of security than it being an actuality. Parking is never easy to come by in anyplace in Manhattan. Driving home from classes late at night, you would feel more safe looking for a parking space and having to settle for one many blocks from your house in an area perhaps dangerous and unknown to you, instead of walking three blocks from the subway station at 135th and St. Nicholas, which is a major, well lit Avenue? Looking for a parking space in and around the culdesacs of housing projects, where you will be forced to look, is asking for trouble. I have no problem walking around Harlem, but I always feel some amount of trepidation when I’m forced to walk by projects, where there are no lights and no storefronts, and plenty of places for some one to jump out and mug you.

Your fear of Harlem is somewhat self-inflicted and it sounds like with your current attitude it will spur a vicious cycle. If you act smartly and act with confidence and treat people as they are you will have no problems. If you walk around miserable and afraid people will pick up on this and the criminals which exist in Harlem as they do in most every neighborhood will prey on you as a victim which you would warrant.

Hopefully you can adjust to Harlem and vanquish your fears and prejudices and just live your life, fear free. Harlem is by no means a death sentence like you're making it out to be, its a neighborhood like anyother only with a demographic largely non-white. There are many students living in Harlem as it still is a cheap alternative, just follow their example and you'll be fine. That said its not the only neighborhood with a significant student population, perhaps an APT. in Queens or Brooklyn would be a better solution for you.

ditto kid.

NewYorkYankee
August 6th, 2006, 12:32 AM
Of course Ill take the train at rush hour, I wouldnt mind then. But Im saying after 9 P.M. or so I wouldnt like it. Are you sure there are no garages near 131 and St Nick Terrace? Also, I just like driving and my car in general. Since the first visit to NYC I never really have liked the subway or buses.

lofter1
August 6th, 2006, 12:45 AM
I never really have liked the subway or buses.

In that case you might have to change your wny name ;)

Schadenfrau
August 6th, 2006, 01:29 AM
I'm certain that there are no garages in the area, NYYankee:

http://www.nyc.gov/html/dcp/html/parking/pidpindex.shtml

It's kind of sad to me that you were so excited to move here, and seem to have missed falling in love with what makes most people want to stay here.

As you've seen, it's really not a driving kind of place. And in all honesty, it doesn't matter that you're from a small, Southern town where there are no black people. This isn't a small, Southern town with no non-white population. You've either got to accept that, or you've got to think long and hard about staying here.

I'm not saying that to rile you up, but because I grew up in a similar sort of place. Getting used to city life was a big change, but I never at any point thought that my provincial upbringing was reason enough to validate any sort of biased thought or excessive protective behavior. As individuals, we change for the city; the city will not change for us.

In full confession, my friend was murdered a block away from the apartment you're talking about. It was horrible, and senseless, and tragic, but it would not stop me, nor anyone who knew him, from telling you that living there is a bad decision. I've been around that area at all times of night and day and never encountered a problem. Who's to say if you would or wouldn't? All you can do is use common sense and hope for the best.

I think people really do themselves a disservice by cloistering themselves away in neighborhoods they deem to be safe, and refusing to set foot anywhere else. You can't have knowledge without experience, and you can't learn without trying.

People need point fingers of blame when tragedy strikes- the victim was in a bad neighborhood/drunk/dressed inappropriately/confrontational/any number of things. Really, they just want to assure themselves the same thing could never happen to them, when really, they know that it could.

I realize this post sounds like a downer, but I'm really just trying to help you be a bit more sensible and pragmatic. You won't protect yourself by owning a car or taking a cab every time it gets dark, NYYankee. You came to this city for a reason, and I think that you'd regret leaving so soon and experiencing so little.

NewYorkYankee
August 6th, 2006, 01:34 PM
I plan to experience the city this short time that I have left. I liked the city, I really did. I just don't like not having my car and the winters are brutal. Harlem is not very dangerous, but it still is nevertheless. I'm worried becuase it does have the conotation of being dangerous, and its strange area to me. Ive spoke with several people about the area and the replies I've got included, but were not limited to, "Don't walk alone at night ever", "Don't use the subway at night." Hearing these sort of comments don't exactly make me feel safe in the area. I am by no means racist, if I were NYC would have never cross my mind for obvious reasons. I also feel that using cabs often, or bringing my car arnt awful things either. I'm just using precaution for my safety. No, I'll admit, NY is not for me as I once thought it to be. It is a great city though. I enjoyed my first year there, and I also plan to enjoy my 2nd year (or single semester) there also. I like cities as I always have, just not NY. Cities that have been more appealing to me the past year include, Miami, Atlanta, and L.A. I've been telling people the past year, "New York is great to visit, just not for me to live there."

katenyc
August 6th, 2006, 02:58 PM
I absolutely love NYC..and am not afraid at night in the subways. Most of the time, theres just as many people writing the subway at 3 am as there is at 3 PM!

Anyways, I have a question for all those Harlem gurus. My school ran out of housing this year - I'm a senior. I'm finding alot of decent looking places in Morningside?

Can anyone tell me a bit about that?

ablarc
August 6th, 2006, 03:02 PM
Morningside is nice but it's not Harlem.

NewYorkYankee
August 6th, 2006, 03:08 PM
I can't believe there are no parking garges close to my buidling. I thought there would be becuase I always saw a lot of parking garages in Manhattan. Could someone please tell me what avenue there are a lot of yellow cabs on around 131st street and st nicholas terrace?

katenyc
August 6th, 2006, 03:12 PM
Morningside is nice but it's not Harlem.

ah okay, so is it technically considered Manhattan? I know it at least BORDERS Harlem.

katenyc
August 6th, 2006, 03:13 PM
I can't believe there are no parking garges close to my buidling. I thought there would be becuase I always saw a lot of parking garages in Manhattan. Could someone please tell me what avenue there are a lot of yellow cabs on around 131st street and st nicholas terrace?
Don't bother bringing your car to Manhattan. Worst idea ever. Seriously. I'm a student who's lived in NYC for 3 years. So glad I don't have a vehicle.

Schadenfrau
August 6th, 2006, 03:18 PM
Anything on the island of Manhattan is considered Manhattan, KateNYC. Morningside Heights is just south of Harlem. Parts are quite nice, and there are lots of good restaurants and bars. There are also lots of students, so the area would be conducive to college life.

NYYankee, there are always plenty of cabs on 125th and St. Nicholas Avenue, right next to the train station.

katenyc
August 6th, 2006, 03:21 PM
Ah, I see. I'm clueless when it comes to anything above 90th street. I'm so used to within Manhattan, that I'm absolutely unaware of the geography outside of Manhattan (talk about ignorance). I'm sad that my school ran out of housing, because I'd have to say living in Tribeca wasn't a bad deal for a 21 year old.

Schadenfrau
August 6th, 2006, 03:44 PM
That's not a bad deal at all, but you do realize that Manhattan runs all the way up to 215th Street, right?

http://www.nycsubway.org/maps/route/

It's kind of amazing how many people, not even students, have lived here for years, and think that because I live in the Bronx, I must be hours away from anything. I have to show them the map to point out that I live closer to midtown Manhattan than many people living in Manhattan themselves.

katenyc
August 6th, 2006, 04:44 PM
Yes, I do. I just have no desire to go higher up in Manhattan due to the fact that there's no reason to, and because the subways...do take about an hour to get up there at times. I feel no need to go past Central Park unless neccessary because everything I need is there and below.

Schadenfrau
August 6th, 2006, 06:33 PM
You might not need what's above Central Park, but I think you might be pleasantly surprised by what you find up there.

Morningside Heights is a fun neighborhood, and you would probably really enjoy visiting the Cloisters and surrounding neighborhoods. If you plan on living in Manhattan after graduation, and don't anticipate earning 100K plus a year, living uptown is a great idea.

Maybe it's just me, but once I went uptown, I never went back. Living downtown is fun, but after I graduated college, the passed-out frat boys on my stoop were not so entertaining.

If you don't mind me asking, which streets are you looking at?

NewYorkYankee
August 6th, 2006, 07:11 PM
Schad, are you sure there are cabs on 125th street? I went there once I didnt see any. The only place in Harlem I've seen them is on Lexington Avenue around 110th street.

Schadenfrau
August 6th, 2006, 07:27 PM
There are many cabs on 125th, just wait by St. Nicholas. I've done this tens of times, but if you have trouble finding a yellow cab, remember that a livery is not so bad there. Just negotiate the price before you get in the car. It will never be more than $1 more than the yellow cab price.

You really do seem like a sweet kid, and if you need any advice after that, please PM me.

NewYorkYankee
August 6th, 2006, 08:37 PM
Im not bothering with a PM, this is my last question. Is there no where closer to my building that cabs are plentiful than 5 blocks to 125th?

krulltime
August 6th, 2006, 10:19 PM
What is wrong with what I advise you to do? Get a cab on broadway when you get off from the train (or bus) in an area you feel like is comfortable to you. If you need a cab to come to your apartment then there are numbers you call and then they go there to pick you up. I think that is possible. This is not too difficult to accomplish. In the daytime Harlem might seem very safe to walk aorund or take public transit. I believe most crimes occur at night time.

NoyokA
August 6th, 2006, 10:29 PM
Im not bothering with a PM, this is my last question. Is there no where closer to my building that cabs are plentiful than 5 blocks to 125th?

I went to City College and I would grab a cab time to time at around 10 at night, it was not because I was afraid of the area, theres always students around, but because I had a large portfolio and didn't feel like lugging it around on buses and subways. Needless to say there was always a plethora of cabs at 135th and Amsterdam, right in the vicinity of where you'll be living.

I'm starting to get the impression that no amount of convincing will satisfy you. We've met Brandon and your not that much different from me and Im giving you my word that you'll be fine. Everyone else is trying to help you as well. If you take our advice and move in with an open mind you will be fine. Will it be a challenge, for you there is no question and thats okay too, life is all about challenges. Approach this as a challenge and make the best of it, don't give in and strive to make the best of it and you'll be alright.

NewYorkYankee
August 6th, 2006, 11:27 PM
I dont appreciate my name, even first, mentioned on this forum. Thank you. Second, I also get the impression that most people on this forum would rather die than admit white boys are targets in Harlem. Thats a fact. No, Im not saying it WILL happen, but it could. You, yourself Stern, have told me guys sitting on a stoop have made threatening remarks to you as you've walked by. Although this is just a form of intimidation, its still something I'd rather not deal with. My continued questions shouldnt make you assume I wont change my mind, Im just trying to get as much information as possible. If you don't bother giving any more information to me, I could care less.

NewYorkYankee
August 6th, 2006, 11:42 PM
Also, I do plan to go in with an open mind. If I didnt, I wouldnt even considered Harlem for a dorm choice. As time, and replies, progress on this thread I do get a little more comfortable. But, as you said, it will take time for me to adjust.

NewYorkYankee
August 6th, 2006, 11:44 PM
What is wrong with what I advise you to do?

Not a thing. I planned to do this all along. I was talking about getting a cab at my apartment to go downtown.

pianoman11686
August 7th, 2006, 12:15 AM
Cities that have been more appealing to me the past year include, Miami, Atlanta, and L.A. I've been telling people the past year, "New York is great to visit, just not for me to live there."

I've visited all three of those, and I can honestly say, I'm disappointed to hear you say that, especially considering how enthusiastic you used to be about New York. What changed your mind? Is New York just not a good place for a student? I went to high school in Manhattan, but that's not at all similar to college life. I go to school in North Carolina now, and I think it's a great place for a university, but not for long-term residence. I can't imagine living anywhere other than New York when I graduate.

In any case, I truly hope you make a good decision on how to spend the rest of your years at school. It's not something you want to waste, especially not on a count of not liking the area where you're living. Personally, I couldn't imagine having to commute to school every day, as my commute is usually no more than a 5 minute walk. But I will say this: I think a lot of the suggestions you've gotten here from everyone is some of the best you'll find anywhere. If you really want to spend more time studying at Pace, and your biggest concerns are how to get back to your dorm in Harlem, I'd heed the advice of people here that know what they're talking about. There's no reason for them to steer you wrong.

Good luck, NYYankee!

ablarc
August 7th, 2006, 07:23 AM
^ I think pianoman has it about right, but you're correct to take precautions. We used to have a sweet kid on this forum who thought Harlem was safe, and you know what happened to him...

pianoman11686
August 7th, 2006, 11:02 AM
While that is true, and as horrificly tragic as TLOZ's death was, it's those kinds of rare events that exert an inordinate amount of influence on people's opinions, unjustly so. How many hundreds or thousands of other students live in the area that go to Columbia, or other schools in New York, and will never encounter any problems? How many other people live there permanently and never feel threatened?

It's times like these that you have to look at the odds. Every time I board an airplane, I'm just a little nervous when we take off. I know statistically, that's the most dangerous time during flight, but I also know that it is exceedingly rare for there to be any problem at all. Ultimately, it doesn't stop me from boarding a plane 10 times a year.

How many times do we hear of people getting killed while crossing the streets in Manhattan? Cab driver lost control, freak accident. How many times are people warned that San Francisco is due for another major earthquake, but yet they continue to live there and prosper? How many times are we told everyday almost, on the news, about some new health or safety threat, yet we continue to leave our homes and interact with the outside environment?

The point I'm trying to make here is that you shouldn't change your life because of the risk in doing something. Sure, don't do anything stupid, that you know has an unacceptably high probablity of causing harm to you or to others, but don't make special arrangements to avoid them. Exercise common sense and rationality. If you really wanted to, you could find a myriad of reasons not to leave your house every day, because life is full of risks and possible harms - driving a car, walking on the street, flying an airplane, breathing - that are just not worth the fuss. If we worried about everything we could worry about, we'd lose our minds. Just the other day, I caught a bit of a program that talked about America's next great disaster: a super hurricane in New York, a mega tsunami on either the West or East Coast, the biggest earthquake in history occurring in - not San Fran, not LA, but Memphis, of all places. It led me to conclude that anything can happen anywhere at any time. A terrorist could be minutes away from setting off a bomb in Manhattan, yet I choose to come in to the city every day for work. Like I said earlier, unless you really don't want to study at Pace, then take what housing you can find, and do what everyone else does. Otherwise, transfer to a different school, and don't worry about getting home safely.

Do what you will enjoy, and don't make sacrifices because of uncertainty, because uncertainty is all around us.

NewYorkYankee
August 7th, 2006, 11:42 AM
I dont think NY is good for college students if you want a campus school. Thats what I want. Im transfering to either the University of Florida or University of Miami for spring '07. Like I said earlier, using public transportation has never appealed to me, I want my car. And we all have seen that a car in Manhattan is tough. So, I want a large city but one that is car oriented, which is just about any excluding NY.

Schadenfrau
August 7th, 2006, 11:45 AM
What exactly is it that you dislike so much about public transportation?

NewYorkYankee
August 7th, 2006, 12:10 PM
It's dirty, hot as hell, uncomfortable, why stand up when I could be sitting down driving? I'd just rather have my climate controlled, roomy, clean car is all.

pianoman11686
August 7th, 2006, 12:18 PM
Is your aversion to dirt and crowds so great that you'd rather spend all that extra money on parking, fuel, insurance, and car maintenance, not to mention waste time sitting in traffic? I'm not a huge fan of subways either, but they get the job done. Besides, these days most subway cars are air-conditioned, and much cleaner than they ever have been.

NewYorkYankee
August 7th, 2006, 12:29 PM
Much cleaner than they ever have been, but still disgusting. I personally don't care for the stench of piss every time I enter certain stations. And yes, I'd rather have my car. I'm a car type of person.

ZippyTheChimp
August 7th, 2006, 12:37 PM
I've been following the discussion, and what I've suspected from the start is a key point:

I want my car.
More than the car's function as a secure means of commuting is the car as a symbol of freedom. When a lived in a room in my parents' house, owning my own car meant a measure of independence - that I was in control of something.

As my children are grown and we are in Manhattan, the logic against car-commute is obvious, but I have always owned a car. I can go where I want when I want, but it's at a family residence in Brooklyn.

Being a student in Manhattan is tough without a family support group in the area. Car-commuting is tough in Manhattan. Put the two together, and college takes a back seat to car maintenance.

I don't think there is a good solution for you, New York Yankee.

pianoman11686
August 7th, 2006, 03:02 PM
I apologize if this has already been explained, but thinking about your problem, I was just wondering if your housing was already set in stone. I know you went through a housing service. But what if you found a cheap studio somewhere downtown, near Pace? Have you considered comparing the cost of that vs. the (probably lower) cost of living in a dorm uptown, but with the added cost of commuting and owning/maintaining a car? Going by Stern's math, I wouldn't think that the difference (per month) between a studio downtown versus your dorm uptown would be greater than $500/month. I could be wrong, but I'm just thinking out loud.

NoyokA
August 7th, 2006, 03:15 PM
I apologize if this has already been explained, but thinking about your problem, I was just wondering if your housing was already set in stone. I know you went through a housing service. But what if you found a cheap studio somewhere downtown, near Pace? Have you considered comparing the cost of that vs. the (probably lower) cost of living in a dorm uptown, but with the added cost of commuting and owning/maintaining a car? Going by Stern's math, I wouldn't think that the difference (per month) between a studio downtown versus your dorm uptown would be greater than $500/month. I could be wrong, but I'm just thinking out loud.

Not a bad idea pianoman, Brooklyn is also an excellent option (there are many rooms in houses available for under $1,000 a month). When I went to City College last year I looked at the Towers (the place in question) for a split second and immediatly scoffed at the price, I could be wrong but I remember $1,200 a month. For $1,200 a month you can find a place in a better location. I don't know if you signed a lease, hopefully you didn't if you did perhaps you can sublease the space.

krulltime
August 7th, 2006, 03:31 PM
Why do you guys keep giving advise to NewYorkYankee? He said he hates public transportation. Let him have his driving experience in Manhattan. Maybe one day he will hate gettting stuck in traffic so much. Then he will look back and think about the advise we gave him. I think he will like to live in Los Angeles anyway. People who drive seem to do. This city isn't for everybody. Especially if you love to drive.

I remember when I used to love to drive when I was living in Philadelphia. I hated public transportation there. Still does when I go there (since I don't owned a car anymore). But experiencing public transportation in NYC, I really don't missed my car anymore. I can actually for the first time say that I really enjoy public transportation. NYC change all of that for me.

I do drive occasionally, when I rent a car to take some trips here and there. It is actually good to know how to drive... I think that everyone should know anyway. I wonder if there is a big percent of people (than other cities) who are born in this city and have never drive before and never will. I wouldn't be surprice if that is true.

pianoman11686
August 7th, 2006, 03:33 PM
Krull, there's nothing wrong with trying to give advice. Speaking about my idea specifically, it would actually involve minimal use of public transportation if NYYankee could find a place to live on the Lower East Side/Downtown Manhattan. That way, he wouldn't need to worry about having a car, or dealing with mass transit to commute.

Stern, that seems like a lot to pay, especially for a student. From a quick search on the NY Times' Real Estate section, I've already found several studios (some in which people are looking for a roommate) to rent for under $1000/month.

NewYorkYankee
August 7th, 2006, 04:51 PM
I wish it wasnt set in stone. But my parents already paid 4500 for the fall semester up front. So, it's too late. We were upset I wasnt going to have a dorm and took the first thing that popped up. I'm not bringing my car to the city this time. I'm going to use the subway in the day and use cabs at night. I used cabs often last year when living downtown so this shouldnt be much diffrent. Although, you guys are going to hate this, if I do stay at Pace next semester (If I dont get into UF or UM until next fall) I'm living in Brooklyn Heights...and bringing my car. lol I like NYC, and I like driving, there is no sense why I can't enjoy both while I'm here.

kliq6
August 7th, 2006, 05:07 PM
Yankee it seems that you didnt really know much about NY at all and came here, anyone could tell you that cars and Manhattan often dont go together. If you wanted a campus life, what gave you the idea Pace at the edge of the Brooklyn Bridge would give this to you? maybe you should have visited the city more and gotten to know it, not just view it in movies like so many do and then are surpirised when they get there.


From the time he started posting i could tell he would not make it, good luck in life.

NewYorkYankee
August 7th, 2006, 05:35 PM
Kliq, it seems you dont know much about what you're talking about. I visited 5 times before I came to school here last fall. So I think i got to see it pretty well, thank you. I thought I didnt want a campus school at the time, I thought I would like Pace. Things change when you start them, and people change their mind. You can keep your snide remarks to yourself, good luck in life! Oh yeah, your PM to me was pointless and ignorant.

lofter1
August 7th, 2006, 06:26 PM
When I first started coming to NYC (back in the ice age of the mid-70s) a friend had a car -- a bomb of a mustang -- and it was a ball driving around at all hours of the night.

Until that one time on W. 73rd (who woulda thunk it?) when a car pulled up next to us and the guy pointed a gun at us ...

We ducked FAST :cool:

Didn't keep us from using that car whenever possible.

NewYorkYankee
August 7th, 2006, 06:42 PM
I dont think having a car in NYC is THAT bad. I mean, if you like it you like it. You've just got to be patient in traffic and parking.

NoyokA
August 7th, 2006, 08:14 PM
Is NYC a good place for a college student looking for the residential campus expierence, ie. large and frat parties, no.

Should one experience the college experience, absolutly if they so desire.

I just hope you'll be back to NYC after you graduate, NYC is a great place for young urban proffesionals, the yup's. There's no place like NYC for a recent college grad, I don't think NYC is right for you this year, but I have a feeling that this isn't the end of the affair, I hope to see you back.

NewYorkYankee
August 7th, 2006, 08:16 PM
I hope to see you back.


Then come to 131st and St Nicholas Terrace Aug 26th. HaHa

NoyokA
August 7th, 2006, 08:26 PM
Then come to 131st and St Nicholas Terrace Aug 26th. HaHa

I was already planning to visit friends from CCNY and since the Towers are on the CCNY campus I could see myself paying a visit. One big advantage is that you are in a dorm environment and are not living by yourself in an unfamiliar neighborhood. Put yourself out there, keep your door open and meet people in common areas and your trepidition will be eased.

kingpin8399
August 9th, 2006, 01:17 PM
im moving to the towers for the fall also, ill split a cab w/ you :D

NewYorkYankee
August 9th, 2006, 02:55 PM
im moving to the towers for the fall also, ill split a cab w/ you :D

Check your Private Messages. Top right hand of page.

milleniumcab
August 9th, 2006, 11:12 PM
In that case you might have to change your wny name ;)

Why is that lofter1?..New Yorker's can be CAB LOVERs, too..:D

lofter1
August 10th, 2006, 12:30 AM
Granted ... But unless you're Mr. Moneybags you've got to learn to love either the subway or the busses, too

NewYorkYankee
August 10th, 2006, 01:22 PM
Yup, I love cabs. Like I said, even when I lived in the Financial District last year I would always take cabs. Now I hope I don't have to hear "I'm not going to Harlem."

Schadenfrau
August 10th, 2006, 01:34 PM
I'm sure you won't hear that, NYYankee. I think you're taking this whole thing way too seriously. It's a dorm, not a tragedy.

NewYorkYankee
August 10th, 2006, 04:06 PM
I'm sure you won't hear that, NYYankee. I think you're taking this whole thing way too seriously. It's a dorm, not a tragedy.

Let's just say I'd much rather be living with my friends in Brooklyn Heights.

bubdanose
August 11th, 2006, 09:10 AM
If your folks have all that extra money for parking, insurance, college, etc.....I would think they might want to see you in a safer place, I know I would if you were my youngin....bet they don't know the half of what you are thinking....lol.... and you are doing a lot of thinking....

You seem to have already made up your mind....debating for me, is not an option, with a mind already set in cement....:)

respectfully submitted....

NewYorkYankee
August 11th, 2006, 12:30 PM
Like I said, they already paid 4500.00 up front for this semester. So, I'd rather not make them waste that money.

NYatKNIGHT
August 11th, 2006, 02:07 PM
You'll survive, probably have fun, and have lots of stories to tell once it's all over.

NewYorkYankee
August 11th, 2006, 03:36 PM
I used to defend Harlem in it being safe, its easier to say those things when you live in the Financial District.

Schadenfrau
August 11th, 2006, 03:49 PM
No, it's not easier to say that when you live in the Financial District. Don't you think you will be more familiar and comfortable with the area once you actually live there?

NYYankee, you really seem to be setting yourself up for a bitter and miserable semester. If that's how you want to live your life, so be it, but I imagine you'd have more fun if you just let go.

MrSpice
August 11th, 2006, 04:21 PM
No, it's not easier to say that when you live in the Financial District. Don't you think you will be more familiar and comfortable with the area once you actually live there?

NYYankee, you really seem to be setting yourself up for a bitter and miserable semester. If that's how you want to live your life, so be it, but I imagine you'd have more fun if you just let go.

One does not have to live in Harlem to know that is still not even closely as safe as the Financial district - especially the poor areas with housing projects and dirty stores and streets around them. "Safer" does not mean "Safe"

NewYorkYankee
August 11th, 2006, 04:23 PM
No, it's not easier to say that when you live in the Financial District. Don't you think you will be more familiar and comfortable with the area once you actually live there?

NYYankee, you really seem to be setting yourself up for a bitter and miserable semester. If that's how you want to live your life, so be it, but I imagine you'd have more fun if you just let go.

No, its easier to say it when you don't live there. If you're not there you don't have to worry walking around at night or on the subway. It's easy to say "Oh Harlem is fine!" when walking casually down Park Row.

I'm trying to not set myself up for a bitter semester. But, I don't like this neighborhood, and I don't like that I'm stuck there. But, I'm going to try and make the best of it.

Schadenfrau
August 11th, 2006, 04:25 PM
How many times have you even been there?

NewYorkYankee
August 11th, 2006, 04:25 PM
"Safer" does not mean "Safe"

That's exactly what I think and what makes me nervous.

NewYorkYankee
August 11th, 2006, 04:26 PM
How many times have you even been there?

3 times this past year. Never alone, and twice at night.

Schadenfrau
August 11th, 2006, 04:44 PM
If you're that hellbent on believing that danger is just waiting around a corner for you because you're not walking with the aforementioned "black friend," I don't know what to tell you.

I will say that all of the drama you seem to be creating about the situation is not worth the $4,500 your parents have already paid.

ETA that I did not post that "Safer does not mean safe," that was MrSpice.

MrSpice
August 11th, 2006, 04:56 PM
How many times have you even been there?

One cannot even compare the luxurious financial district with corporate offices and condo conversions with Harlem which is still primarily a very poor neighborhood. Some of the areas in the Harlem have average income below 20K/year and have some of the highest welfare rates in the country - especially the housing projects. East Harlem around 110 street and 3rd avenue feels really scary at night. There are plenty of nice areas in Brooklyn and Queens that are safe and have a lot of shopping and life after dark where one can live for less money. Most of Harlem is still not a good place to live, IMHO.

NewYorkYankee
August 11th, 2006, 05:04 PM
ETA that I did not post that "Safer does not mean safe," that was MrSpice.

My mistake, I don't know how your name came in that qoute.

Schad, please be assured I'm going to give this a fair try and not scream the first day "I hate this." But, when I was in Harlem it felt, dark and dingy. Why, I dont know. But I am going to be there for a semester, so I might as well just live with it. Thanks for your advice and help along the way, it's been appreciated.

kingpin8399
August 11th, 2006, 07:33 PM
Does anybody have any pictures of the St. Nicholas Park or Hamilton Heights areas? I believe thats the part of harlem the dorm is located, thanks

NewYorkYankee
August 11th, 2006, 10:52 PM
I was told by a member of this forum, who shall remain nameless, never go into St Nicholas Park, even in the daytime.

Schadenfrau
August 12th, 2006, 12:03 AM
NYYankee, that person-who-shall-not-be-named already posted that quote for all to see.

Really, for your own sake, just ask for some restaurant or bar suggestions, please. You're starting to depress me, so I can only imagine what you're doing to yourself.

Let me begin: Max Soha is great!

http://nymag.com/listings/restaurant/max-soha/

lofter1
August 12th, 2006, 12:25 AM
East Harlem around 110 street and 3rd avenue feels really scary at night.

You're throwing fuel on the fire ... no one is talking about East Harlem in this particular case.

NYY: You may have seen it but here's a link to a page at the CCNY website with lots of info on the new neighborhood: http://www.ccny.cuny.edu/neighborhood/neighborhood_moreinfo.htm

NewYorkYankee
August 12th, 2006, 12:36 AM
NYYankee, that person-who-shall-not-be-named already posted that quote for all to see.

Really, for your own sake, just ask for some restaurant or bar suggestions, please. You're starting to depress me, so I can only imagine what you're doing to yourself.

Let me begin: Max Soha is great!

http://nymag.com/listings/restaurant/max-soha/

Well, I didnt want to go spouting out what people have said to me. Especially if they say it to me outside of thos forum. Thanks for the restaurant tip.

NewYorkYankee
August 12th, 2006, 01:05 AM
Going with Schad's advice, anyone have any good tips? I'd prefer the Hamilton Heights area, as opposed to the area East of St Nicholas Park. The Morningside Heights neighborhood is also an option. I'm looking for good restaurants, supermarkets, coffee houses, and juice bars. Any suggestions?

NoyokA
August 12th, 2006, 02:05 AM
One cannot even compare the luxurious financial district with corporate offices and condo conversions with Harlem which is still primarily a very poor neighborhood. Some of the areas in the Harlem have average income below 20K/year and have some of the highest welfare rates in the country - especially the housing projects. East Harlem around 110 street and 3rd avenue feels really scary at night. There are plenty of nice areas in Brooklyn and Queens that are safe and have a lot of shopping and life after dark where one can live for less money. Most of Harlem is still not a good place to live, IMHO.

Please! What racist garbage is this? Yes there are poor black people in Harlem. Im so ****ing tired of this bullshit discrimination, the ideologies put forth on this thread are harmful. As a child I was raised on section 8 housing, was this because my mother who raised me as a single parent was lazy or a drug addict, no it was because my mother worked three jobs and I was raised poor. I experienced class discrimination firsthand, even though my mother tried her best so that I wouldn’t know that we were poor. I am very grateful to have had this time in my life and had to rely on the good graces of family, friends, and yes the government. This was indelibly important because at a young age I became grounded and acquired a grown-up sense of responsibility and an ambition that I never wanted to have to rely on the government for my well-being. Some other things I find missing from these condescending posts is that the system is inherently flawed in New York City, I know people who must force members of their household not to work and must turn down advancements so that their income doesn’t rise past a certain ceiling so that they are in turn tossed out of their home. There is no middle ground in NYC you are either poor and can afford housing or you are rich and you can afford housing, there is no room for attaining a middle class status. Second please realize that for many the state of the poor people in Harlem is a result of the real criminals, white-collar criminals that live and work in the financial district. I know a number of hard-working educated black people who live in Harlem who work or had worked in midtown only to be layed-off or were caught up by a glass ceiling. They tell me straight up, you don’t know what it’s like for someone from the hood, and knowing their character I have no other choice then to believe them. It’s easy for white collar criminals to pad their pockets from taking advantage of people from the “hood”, its little wonder why people from the “hood” turn to crime, and its no different. And then there’s another large faction of poor blacks in Harlem that never even had the chance to an education, education is not the same across the board, black-kids in Harlem simply don’t have the same opportunities. And through it all, through everything that’s against them, living their lives in an eternal struggle, against racism and ideologies akin to those perpetrated by those on this board, through a vicious cycle of dead ends, they are beaten into a submission, and they handle it just as people would. There are those that turn to drugs and crime. What I find remarkable is how many black people have a positive outlook and I am amazed at their optimism and strength of spirit. When I lived in the city, whenever I would go on a work or school break, I would find a homeless person and would offer them a smoke, I would talk to them for however long my break lasted. What I learned from these people is irreplaceable, how they could even talk to me, since I would usually be dressed in my money clothing and here we were relating hardships and what they thought was really important, whether it was music, god, or family. I would never give them false hopes, and I felt bad about this, I would just tell them that the system does in fact suck and that I was just trying my best to make it in this world. These were caring individuals, they had no future but they had great hearts nevertheless. I remember I talked to this one poor middle-aged, uneducated black man, Gary on a bus right on St. Amsterdam Avenue in Harlem. He was wheel-chair bound and I tried showing him how to use a scientific calculator. He told me as we passed his housing roject, “Man, that’s where I live, I still live in the same room that I was born in! All I want in this world is to go travel, to go somewhere else, anywhere else, to get out of this hell hole and to do something with my life.” What was I supposed to tell him? He was a poor, uneducated, wheel-chair bound man. Yes Gary, you can do whatever you want! No I would never tell him that, I would just tell myself how furtanate I was and how I could never put down a fine human being like Gary. I could've and could still be in the same situation. I would say for the people that are spewing this class-discriminations that you should talk to the people that actually live in the “hood” before you cast your judgments upon them. But since you are no where near their situation in the first place, or have ever been or have since forgotten, I don’t think you would have the compassion or consideration to even know how to approach them, (these worthless harmful scum, that must be eliminated), especially since you are so far removed and above them.

Schadenfrau
August 12th, 2006, 02:19 AM
And that, folks, is why Stern is the moderator. A round of virtual applause, please.

NoyokA
August 12th, 2006, 02:28 AM
And that, folks, is why Stern is the moderator. A round of virtual applause, please.

Thanks Schandenfrau. You know where Im coming from and I know Im going to get flak for this. What I cant tolerate though is people classifying poor people as sub-human, inferior, and just plain ole' bad. All poor people are the result of circumstance. My circumstance, a single parent raising me after a bitter divorce, who has worked hard and has since established herself in the upper-middle class tier. My mother was poor but take my character as proof of my raising, my mother is a great person. Some people just don’t understand and it’s unfortunate. Sometimes I find myself caught up with materialism and I find myself becoming impressed with my self and looking down on other people and I catch myself. And I remember where I come from. I’m willing to bet that everyone who has expressed class discrimination in this thread was raised either in a middle class background or an all-white background, or both. I am so very grateful that I had such a grounding experience at a young age, such an experience is irreplaceable.

NewYorkYankee
August 12th, 2006, 05:50 PM
I did some searching around today to see what I could find about Hamilton Heights, the area I think our dorm is in.

From New York Magazine:

Typical residents—students, young professionals with college loans, new parents who need an extra room—have fled uptown for space. A lot of actor-singer-dancer-waiters live along (where else?) Broadway.

NoyokA
August 12th, 2006, 06:51 PM
I did some searching around today to see what I could find about Hamilton Heights, the area I think our dorm is in.

From New York Magazine:

Typical residents—students, young professionals with college loans, new parents who need an extra room—have fled uptown for space. A lot of actor-singer-dancer-waiters live along (where else?) Broadway.

This is all true. I knew a beautiful (white) apiring actress who lived in this area, once again you'll be fine...

NewYorkYankee
August 12th, 2006, 08:09 PM
Does anyone have any pictures of Harlem, or know where some can be found?

lofter1
August 12th, 2006, 11:25 PM
There are pictures of the surrounding neighborhood on the CCNY website

NoyokA
August 13th, 2006, 12:07 AM
I plan to carry mace with me.

Thats should do well against potential thugs carrying heat...

NoyokA
August 13th, 2006, 12:08 AM
Does anyone have any pictures of Harlem, or know where some can be found? I'm not interested in Spanish Harlem.

And Spanish Harlem wants you? God will you stop?

NoyokA
August 13th, 2006, 12:10 AM
Some more searching also found that CCNY is surrounded on three sides by huge housing projects. Not good for my confidence in the area.

You have no confidence in the area. You hold yourself so high and above it. I went to City College, it is not surrounded by projects. There are no projects surrounding City College, there are however two recently built luxury condo developments located just off-site.

NewYorkYankee
August 13th, 2006, 12:14 AM
You have no confidence in the area. You hold yourself so high and above it. I went to City College, it is not surrounded by projects. There are no projects surrounding City College, there are however two recently built luxury condo developments located just off-site.

Andrew please, if I held myself so high above it I wouldnt be living there. Look on the NYHA website, I know theyre not right beside of the campus, but they are NEAR it. I dont like being near housing projects, even you said you feel trepidation walking past. My anxiety of this area is not irrational and I dont know why you think it is.

krulltime
August 13th, 2006, 12:17 AM
Damn! You are still complaining about Harlem NewYorkYankee? How long are you still going to complain of what a burden living in Harlem will be for you? Please you need to move on... It might be to late to change your mind already. Maybe you made a mistake. Maybe you should have gone to another college outside the city. Unless your parents can afford to pay more for rent, I think NYC is just not for you.

NewYorkYankee
August 13th, 2006, 12:21 AM
Im not complaining, Im just talking about it now. I even asked for tips for shopping and such. Like I said, Krull, I'm stuck here. If I'm in NYC next semester I will be in Brooklyn Heights.

Schadenfrau
August 13th, 2006, 12:25 AM
NYYankee, you ARE being completely irrational.

If you don't like being near housing projects, get out of New York City. There's a big project right by Pace, just in case you hadn't noticed.

Instead of asking any sort of valid questions about your new neighborhood, you keep coming back and posting things like, "I'm going to carry mace!" or some other such horseshit.

Everyone has tried to be helpful and offer advice to you, and all you're offering in return is complete ignorance on the level of your average bigot who has never left, and should never leave, the sticks. If all you're going to do is howl about the injustice of having to live in a neighborhood with black people, go back to Tennessee and stay there.

krulltime
August 13th, 2006, 12:26 AM
Im not complaining, Im just talking about it now. I even asked for tips for shopping and such. Like I said, Krull, I'm stuck here. If I'm in NYC next semester I will be in Brooklyn Heights.

I think you said you don't like the East of Harlem or East of you dormitory place... than go west. That is the last alternative you might have. I think there is alot of shopping on broadway. Oh and careful of the 'bad black people'! (which you seem to be avoiding... you know they also walk around your dorms... who knows? One of them might be your doorman if you have one)

NewYorkYankee
August 13th, 2006, 12:28 AM
I'll check it out. BTW Krull, I was looking at an older thread of yours today of Morningside Heights. Kudos to you, excellent photo tour!

NoyokA
August 13th, 2006, 12:29 AM
Andrew please, if I held myself so high above it I wouldnt be living there. Look on the NYHA website, I know theyre not right beside of the campus, but they are NEAR it. I dont like being near housing projects, even you said you feel trepidation walking past. My anxiety of this area is not irrational and I dont know why you think it is.


I’m frustrated just like everyone else on this board who continues to give you advice and ways to deal with your situation and you continue to whine and act like a victim, there’s little wonder why this thread is rated a single star (terrible).

We can feel for your situation, I think we all do. It’s not easy for a kid from upper-middle-class suburbia strata to be thrown into a culture shock where you will for the first time in your life be a minority with a different skin color and socioeconomic background. You fear you will targeted. Your fear of the unknown is warranted but we’re telling you that things will be alright if you take appropriate measures. Instead of taking our advice and measures that will make this a valuable life-long lesson you cower and make an effort to make yourself a victim instead of trying to overcome your situation. The way things stand right now with the measures you’re taking and the negative attitude you’re going in with you stand a very good chance of running into trouble. I don’t want to see you run into any trouble, if you took my advice I could’ve almost guaranteed you wouldn’t. I’m done playing games, so continue to pay no attention to our advice, you afterall know better, the people on this forum only know the city like the back of our hands, but you still know better. You’re making yourself into prey, and lets just see how far you get…

NoyokA
August 13th, 2006, 12:35 AM
I'll check it out. BTW Krull, I was looking at an older thread of yours today of Morningside Heights. Kudos to you, excellent photo tour!

OMG! A white person survived morningside heights. How bout me? Or Eli who lives in morningside heights? Schadenfrau a female living in the South Bronx? Countless others! How is this possible, Harlem is afterall hell on earth!

Schadenfrau
August 13th, 2006, 12:36 AM
It’s not easy for a kid from upper-middle-class suburbia strata to be thrown into a culture shock where you will for the first time in your life be a minority with a different skin color and socioeconomic background.


I would actually be surprised if the prejudice evident on this thread is the result of an upper-middle-class upbringing. It sounds more to me like myopia of growing up in an area where very isolated, unsophisticated people make themselves feel better about their own mediocre lives by drawing a line around urban areas and scrawling, "Monsters Be Here!"

NoyokA
August 13th, 2006, 12:48 AM
I would actually be surprised if the prejudice evident on this thread is the result of an upper-middle-class upbringing. It sounds more to me like myopia of growing up in an area where very isolated, unsophisticated people make themselves feel better about their own mediocre lives by drawing a line around urban areas and scrawling, "Monsters Be Here!"

I took a cross-country trip a couple years ago and stopped by Arkansas. As a side-note Arkansas is one of the more liberal southern states. A farmer there told me that his son lived in NYC and that he couldn't understand why he would want to live there since you "Have to stand in the middle of the street in order to see the sky". I didn't tell him that the reason you can't see the sky is because the streets are lined with skyscrapers that are the pride of the city. I entitled him to his beliefs, its funny how those liberated of thought can allow for conservatives to fester, while we worry about our own self interests and expanding our horizons.

NewYorkYankee
August 13th, 2006, 12:53 AM
I'm finished with this thread. For those of you that would like to think of me as racist, go ahead. If you knew what you were talking about. It seems to me any mention of a poor neighborhood being dangerous on this forum is usually mistaken as racism. I'm going to live in Harlem, I'm going to give it a shot. To be frank with everyone, Im just afraid what happened to J.B. can happen to me.

Schadenfrau
August 13th, 2006, 12:56 AM
If that's really what you're worried about, then don't give yourself a false sense of comfort by thinking that sort of thing only happens in Harlem, or in any poor neighborhood, for that matter. Try picking up a newspaper every day.

NoyokA
August 13th, 2006, 01:05 AM
I'm finished with this thread. For those of you that would like to think of me as racist, go ahead. If you knew what you were talking about. It seems to me any mention of a poor neighborhood being dangerous on this forum is usually mistaken as racism. I'm going to live in Harlem, I'm going to give it a shot. To be frank with everyone, Im just afraid what happened to J.B. can happen to me.

The sad irony is that JB was not afraid of Harlem, he was a kind loving soul and perhaps that worked against him. What happened to him is not isolated to Harlem. You could just as easily look at living in Harlem as being an advantage as its less-likely of a place to be affected by a centrally planned terrorist attack. The point is you can die in your sleep and where you live shouldn’t affect how you live your life. Live it just the same, but anytime you live in the city you need to be smart about it.

Maybe your intent is not be a racist, but that doesn’t change the fact that your posts are. I’m a moderator and I am here to protect all of our forum members, and we have forum members here that live in Harlem, believe it or not! How do you think they feel when they read about someone labeling them as criminals and how someone is taking insane measures to avoid them? How do you think I feel, since I am planning on purchasing real estate in an up-and-coming part of New York City, perhaps Harlem when I graduate college?

ManhattanKnight
August 13th, 2006, 01:11 AM
I'm finished with this thread. For those of you that would like to think of me as racist, go ahead. If you knew what you were talking about. It seems to me any mention of a poor neighborhood being dangerous on this forum is usually mistaken as racism. I'm going to live in Harlem, I'm going to give it a shot. To be frank with everyone, Im just afraid what happened to J.B. can happen to me.

Frankly, I'm sure that I'm not the only one who's watched this self-pitying, attention-seeking, and, yes, racist, display who hopes that you really mean it this time. J.B. died while trying to help a fellow human being on a street corner in East Harlem; that's not likely to be your fate.

NewYorkYankee
August 13th, 2006, 01:11 AM
Bleh

NoyokA
August 13th, 2006, 01:18 AM
I apologize to anyone I have offended in this thread. Please be assured my intent was not racism. I also apologize for the continuous ranting. I'm going to go into this semester with a positive attitude, and try to enjoy it. So, to Stern and Schad especially, I apologize.

Great thats all I wanted to hear! The apology is nice. The going in with a positive attitude is even better!

ryan
August 14th, 2006, 06:57 PM
And that, folks, is why Stern is the moderator. A round of virtual applause, please.

ditto.

Ninjahedge
August 15th, 2006, 08:49 AM
Stern, I think you nailed it here:


We can feel for your situation, I think we all do. It’s not easy for a kid from upper-middle-class suburbia strata to be thrown into a culture shock where you will for the first time in your life be a minority with a different skin color and socioeconomic background. You fear you will targeted. Your fear of the unknown is warranted but we’re telling you that things will be alright if you take appropriate measures

He is not used to these things and is, quite frankly, scared.

The things he is hearing he knows to be true, but he wants to be back-patted and assured that his viewpoints are not as wrong as he thinks they might be.

Why? Well, not only are they his, but I would bet money that they are the views of his family and quite a few people around him. It is hard to look at the people you have been surrounded by your entire life and come to the realization of how wrong they are on some things.

I know I have felt something similar when I go to visit my family now. They are extremely tolerant of a lot of things, but culturally, they are still pretty isolated compared to NYC.

That is the one thing I have had to keep in mind any time I visit, is that I am living near and working in one of the most culturally and ethnically diverse (although arguably not homoginized) city in the world, and that the people I love and grew up with are still living in suburbia. I thank them for the accepting nature I got growing up or I would have found it hard at college, and hard in life where I am now, but I realize I have grown beyond my own origins.



We can hope that NYY, and people like him, DO come to the city and realize for themselves what is the truth about other peoples. To stop thinking that what they hear about blacks, indians, mexicans, asians, russians and a whole host of other minorities in NY is somehow true. To CLEAR HIS MIND of the prejudices he has grown up with and try to look at things through a clear lens and make his own decisions on the interactions he has in his own experiences, and hopefully that they follow the advice given by some of the people on this board (and on others like this) so as to not inadvertantly cause the reactions they were told to expect by their own making.




NYY, good luck to you. And remember, one of the first steps in fitting into a different environment is accepting it yourself. If you don't, you never will.

Schadenfrau
August 15th, 2006, 09:21 AM
Ninjahedge, I think you're being kind, but you've also got to got to realize that a good percentage of people on this forum didn't grow up in the city, and we've all managed to accustom ourselves to living here.

NewYorkYankee has had his back patted plenty. When he continues to ignore that in favor of beating his breast, he only has himself to blame.

lofter1
October 21st, 2006, 08:21 PM
NYC Park Named for Challenger Astronaut


http://www.nycgovparks.org/sub_about/parks_divisions/capital/images/mcnair/plan.gif
Copyright © New York City Department of Parks & Recreation


nytimes.com / aponline (http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/us/AP-Challenger-Playground.html?_r=1&oref=slogin)
By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
October 21, 2006


NEW YORK (AP) -- Two decades after the space shuttle Challenger exploded, city officials opened a playground dedicated to an astronaut killed in the accident.


The ribbon cutting took place Friday, on the eve of Ronald E. McNair's birthday. The $2 million playground in Harlem is near where McNair grew up. His father owned an auto body shop next door to the site.


The one-acre McNair Playground has a space theme. Jupiter is represented by a granite ring circling the park's green turf. A climbing set is based on the spaceship in the film ''2001: A Space Odyssey.'' Craters decorate a spray shower, and the phases of the moon are reflected in two spinning machines.


McNair, a physicist, was one of seven astronauts who died aboard the Challenger when it exploded shortly after liftoff on Jan. 28, 1986.


In 1984, he became the second black American to travel in space, after Guion Bluford, who made his space flight in 1983.


Ground was broken for the project in 1986, but during repeated construction delays, the property served as an illegal dumping ground and a meeting place for drug users.


''We've only been waiting 20 years for this,'' said Commissioner Adrian Benepe of the city Parks Department.


Copyright 2006 The Associated Press


***

Ronald McNair Park

http://www.nycgovparks.org/sub_about/parks_divisions/capital/images/mcnair/current-state.jpg

Project Team: Nancy Prince with Alex Hart and Susan Coker

www.nycgovparks.org/sub_about (http://www.nycgovparks.org/sub_about)


Site History


The land for McNair Park was acquired by the City of New York in 1986. The site is a level, open undeveloped, mid block area located between Lexington and Third Avenues and accessible from 122nd and 123rd streets. The area was once occupied by tenement buildings that are now gone. It’s located in Harlem, within Community Board #11 and Council District #8.


Design Intent In 1990, plans to develop the site into a multi-use park and science playground were never realized due to the economic recession in the early 90’s. Today, Council Member Reed (http://www.nyccouncil.info/constituent/member_details.cfm?con_id=41) gave $1.8 million to develop this important neighborhood park with active and passive recreation to commemorate the life of astronaut Dr. Ronald McNair. Dr. McNair lost his life in the Challenger space shuttle tragedy in 1986. Besides being an astronaut, McNair was also a physicist, aKarate instructor, and a performing jazz saxophonist.


The design of the park reflects McNair's interests in physics andspace science, and is manifested in the design of the play units, site furnishings, pavements and decorative lighting.


THE PLANETS OF OUR SOLAR SYSTEM


http://www.nycgovparks.org/sub_about/parks_divisions/capital/images/mcnair/planets.gif
The nine planets for a child size
exploration of the solar system


This park design was inspired by teaching tools found on the Challenger Center web site. The Challenger Center, established by the families of the 1986 Challenger astronauts, is a multi media resource for teaching school age children about space and science. One exercise engages students by having them compare the relative size of the planets in our solar system.


The design for Ronald McNair Park gives this exercise a large scale physical form. The nine planets can be found in the pavement and curbs of the park. For example, Jupiter is represented by a 77’-8” ring of pavement, incised with the planet’s name around a lawn area. Pluto is represented by a 1’-3” granite disk paver.


A PLANET WALK


http://www.nycgovparks.org/sub_about/parks_divisions/capital/images/mcnair/planet_walk.gif


To show the vast scale of our solar system we are proposing a planet walk from the Sun to Pluto along the sidewalks of 122nd. Street in front of the park, west and around Marcus Garvey Park to Pluto. The size of the planets and the distances between their orbits will both be in proportion. Planet walks have been very popular in other cities around the US. Planet markers could be stainless steel set in the sidewalk.


PLAY EQUIPMENT FOR FUN AND LEARNING FEATURING SPACE SCIENCE AND PRINCIPELS OF PHYSICS


http://www.nycgovparks.org/sub_about/parks_divisions/capital/images/mcnair/equipment.jpg


Analemmatic sundial - This will be a pattern in the pavement.
A child stands in a designated spot according to the month and their body will cast a shadow that falls on numbers thereby telling the time.


Earth Sundial - This is a stationary globe with New York located at the top. Sunshine will move across the globe as it does across the earth.


Spacestation play equipment- One large play unit will look something like a space station. A small unit will allow young children to roll play and pretend they are operating a spaceship.


The Phases of the moon - The phases of the moon will be found in a custom climber that will have spheres that are ½ black and ½ white.


Spinning equipment- several play pieces both for younger and older kids will spin. The spin rate can be controlled by leaning in or out.


Whisper Dishes- These will be a pair of parabolic curved steel dishes that face each other across the park. One child whispering into one dish can be heard by a child at the dish across the park.


A SPRAY SHOWER FEATURING THE MOON


The spray shower will have a precast concrete dome with moon like craters. Water will mist, spray and run in a small trough around this moon providing water play opportunity for various age children.


Trees, shrubs, perennials and groundcover will surround all the interesting and active features of this park. These plants will be both typical of McNair’s native South Carolina and well adapted to our northern urban setting. A synthetic turf lawn will provide a soft place for play, relaxing and special events. The layout of the playground will accommodate a future comfort station. Solar powered light emitting pavers will also be included in the paths to amend the standard park lighting and give an ethereal glow at night. The park will also include plenty of comfortable benches, drinking fountains and trash receptacles.


Copyright © New York City Department of Parks & Recreation

ice9
October 24th, 2006, 05:46 PM
Kind of late in joining in on this thread.. but i really liked that post by Stern.. such a great post!!!!!!!!!!! Just had to comment on that haha

OP was pretty horrible, but it's nice to see that there wasn't much trolling within the thread, despite the guy being annoying

caonima
December 27th, 2006, 04:13 PM
Alright, after waiting forever to decide to come back to NYC I had to take the last option with housing. I had to go through a student housing service in NYC, Pace dorms were full. Alas, even with this housing company I had to take their last option. Now, before I ask this, if your going to reply with "If you're scared to live there, you don't need to be in NYC", "This is an ignorant comment by an uneducated person", "This neighborhood is safe as ever, NYC crime is down blah blah blah" etc. I don't want to hear it. I want to hear useful information about this neighborhood. My building is located on 131st street and St Nicholas Avenue in Harlem. The only time I've been to Harlem is with my black friend on 125th. I'm white from a southern town, where I rarely see a single black person. So, Im somewhat nervous, J.B.'s sad death does not help. So, anyone can provide me with tips, info on the area I would appreciate it.

don't listen to those real estate agents' crack. harlem is beautiful, however, it's still too dangerous to move in. yes, crime rate had been down a bit, but look at the scary data carefully. it's far far from safe. and remember, those guys have legs, so they are roaming all over the area (that mean, the chance to say "block by block" is indeed very limited ). gentrifying? tell you the truth, most new buildings are just occupied by the local origins again.....

lofter1
December 28th, 2006, 12:13 AM
... remember, those guys have legs, so they are roaming all over the area ...
wtf?

Gulcrapek
December 28th, 2006, 06:19 PM
NERJ5GVBKTGR DUJ,

I just wrote a 50+ line post and pressed the wrong button and it's gone. I had a whole response lined out. *****

NewYorkDoc
October 20th, 2007, 01:42 PM
Here I am again, reviving a thread that was very controversial. This is NewYorkYankee, for anyone who may not be familiar with the new name. I'm still in NYC after all, I live in Brooklyn. I did transfer, although not to the University of Florida or Miami, but to Brooklyn College.

The experience I had in Harlem was an eye opener to say the least. I went in reluctantly and very apprehensive for what the semester would bring me. I'll admit the first day I was there I had worked myself up so much I almost passed out when walking around.

The good news is that I learned a lot living there. I learned a lot about people, and about myself. I went in judging the guys on the corner and old men sitting on the stoops. I left with the understanding that no one can be judged based on outward appearance, or by neighborhood they live in.

Living in Harlem has taught me to embrace the diversity that I craved when moving to New York. It taught me to forget stereotypes, fears, and plain stupidity. I am very glad that I lived there for one semester, and I cherish the lessons I learned from it.

NoyokA
October 20th, 2007, 01:52 PM
Here I am again, reviving a thread that was very controversial. This is NewYorkYankee, for anyone who may not be familiar with the new name. I'm still in NYC after all, I live in Brooklyn. I did transfer, although not to the University of Florida or Miami, but to Brooklyn College.

The experience I had in Harlem was an eye opener to say the least. I went in reluctantly and very apprehensive for what the semester would bring me. I'll admit the first day I was there I had worked myself up so much I almost passed out when walking around.

The good news is that I learned a lot living there. I learned a lot about people, and about myself. I went in judging the guys on the corner and old men sitting on the stoops. I left with the understanding that no one can be judged based on outward appearance, or by neighborhood they live in.

Living in Harlem has taught me to embrace the diversity that I craved when moving to New York. It taught me to forget stereotypes, fears, and plain stupidity. I am very glad that I lived there for one semester, and I cherish the lessons I learned from it.

This is great to hear. We all have misconceptions and fears, the important thing to remember is to keep an open mind and try to make the best of what you think might be an uncomfortable experience. You did this, it sounds like you learned alot and are a better person for the experience, everythings a learning experience.

Schadenfrau
October 20th, 2007, 02:31 PM
NewYorkYankee/Doc, congratulations. I'm really pleased that you opened your mind and saw things for how they really are.

I have to say, I'm slightly surprised in the best kind of way. Granted, you were young when you moved here, but you're obviously capable of learning the lessons you need to learn, and I've now actually got some faith that you might just be suited to this city after all.

As corny as it sounds, good for you- really. This is maybe the most touched I've ever been on these boards.

NoyokA
October 21st, 2007, 03:29 AM
I'm still in NYC after all, I live in Brooklyn.


Where are you living in BK?

NewYorkDoc
October 22nd, 2007, 02:16 AM
Ditmas Park. I really like it here because of the diversity of people, proximity to Brooklyn College,and plethora of .99 cent stores. The best part though? My rent is < $850.00 a month.

NoyokA
October 22nd, 2007, 02:51 AM
I'm probably going to move to either Queens or Brooklyn once my current lease is up. Manhattan might be an amazing place to live, but the rents are ridiculous.

NewYorkDoc
October 22nd, 2007, 03:22 AM
I'm probably going to move to either Queens or Brooklyn once my current lease is up. Manhattan might be an amazing place to live, but the rents are ridiculous.

It's overpriced for a student, in my opinion. I know folks that share in Manhattan for more than I pay a month to live alone. But, to each his own I suppose. A lot of people I know won't consider living outside of Manhattan. I often hear, "If I don't live in Manhattan, I don't want to live in New York."

With that, do you, or anyone else, believe the rents will ever go down?

I would love to live in the east village, but I just can't afford to yet.

NoyokA
October 22nd, 2007, 03:37 AM
It's overpriced for a student, in my opinion. I know folks that share in Manhattan for more than I pay a month to live alone. But, to each his own I suppose. A lot of people I know won't consider living outside of Manhattan. I often hear, "If I don't live in Manhattan, I don't want to live in New York."

With that, do you, or anyone else, believe the rents will ever go down?

I would love to live in the east village, but I just can't afford to yet.

The thing with rents is that they never go down. This is especially true in Manhattan.

NewYorkDoc
October 22nd, 2007, 04:07 AM
Well then the entire island one day will only be available to those with incomes of $100,000+. Which is very, very sad.

NoyokA
October 22nd, 2007, 01:18 PM
That's basically what it is now. Unless you have a rent-controlled apt. you're either making over 100,000 a year or you're making under 20,000 and living in public housing. Alot of landlords wont even rent to someone making under a certain amount, the demand is that high! And the demand will only get higher. The good news is Queens, Brooklyn, and the Bronx are getting nicer and are arguably already as an exciting place to live as Manhattan, especially Brooklyn.

NewYorkDoc
October 22nd, 2007, 03:35 PM
That's basically what it is now. Unless you have a rent-controlled apt. you're either making over 100,000 a year or you're making under 20,000 and living in public housing. Alot of landlords wont even rent to someone making under a certain amount, the demand is that high! And the demand will only get higher. The good news is Queens, Brooklyn, and the Bronx are getting nicer and are arguably already as an exciting place to live as Manhattan, especially Brooklyn.

I don't think it's at that point just yet, not the entire island that is. Harlem and Washington Heights/Inwood are still lower, although not much, than downtown. Plus, studios, and maybe some rare one bedrooms, can still be had for individuals making under $100,000 in several areas below 96th St. It's coming though I think, and with it NY may lose some appeal.