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ironmike9110
May 22nd, 2006, 10:52 AM
Whats are the bad neighborhoods/areas to avoid in NYC. I'm talking about the places where if you walk through, you might get mugged. I know North Manhattan (Harlem, Inwood, Washington Heights) are supposed to be pretty bad...so what are they in the other 4 boroughs???

kliq6
May 22nd, 2006, 10:58 AM
You sound racist to me

MrSpice
May 22nd, 2006, 11:00 AM
Whats are the bad neighborhoods/areas to avoid in NYC. I'm talking about the places where if you walk through, you might get mugged. I know North Manhattan (Harlem, Inwood, Washington Heights) are supposed to be pretty bad...so what are they in the other 4 boroughs???

East New York, parts of Flatbush and Crown Heights in Brooklyn
Jamaica in Queens
South Bronx. Many areas in the Bronx are not very safe at night (much safer than a few years ago, but still not very safe).

MrSpice
May 22nd, 2006, 11:04 AM
You sound racist to me

Is anyone who is concerned with his/her safety a racist? I think what you're saying smeel like unreasonable political correctness. All of us living in the city know that some neighborhoods are safer than others. That's just the truth.

kliq6
May 22nd, 2006, 11:10 AM
true, but if your not from here, and the first thing you ask is what safe or not, thats just wrong, come here and see for yourself, dont judge people and areas just on the race they may or may not be.

Schadenfrau
May 22nd, 2006, 11:12 AM
Maybe Kliq6 is talking about the post where IronMike said that he didn't want to live with any blacks or Chinese, only "Italian-Americans."

Ninjahedge
May 22nd, 2006, 11:49 AM
Maybe Kliq6 is talking about the post where IronMike said that he didn't want to live with any blacks or Chinese, only "Italian-Americans."

Then why drag that into a thread that had nothing to do with the other?

He did not call out any races in his question, and that should be avoided in the answers as well.

Maybe the mods should sanitize this thread a bit.

ryan
May 22nd, 2006, 11:53 AM
Inwood seems ok to me.

lofter1
May 22nd, 2006, 01:22 PM
Madison Ave. in the high 30's and into the 40s -- lots of lawyers around there, so watch your wallet ;)

ironmike9110
May 22nd, 2006, 02:57 PM
I never mentioned race in this thread...Yea, a couple months ago i made the thread about italian americans but thats because i always wanted to live around other italians because i mainly lived with german and irish my whole life i thought it would be cool to live with people of the same heritage. I can care less what color or nationality you are, dont mean **** to me, and if it did i dont think i would want to move to NYC. Example of how i can care less, I just switched from a 90% white gym that to about a 65% black gym with some whites,mexicans and all other races mixed along with it. I will never go back to the other gym,i love this new gym, and guess what, the equipment isnt half as good as the old gym, but the people in the new are cool as hell and their all different races.

---

All i wanted to know was what areas where unsafe, so anyways, someone said most of the Bronx is bad?? What would be the good neighborhoods then??? And would you reccomend moving to Brooklyn instead if im going to be college student and fresh in the city, or do you think ill be fine in the Bronx? thanks.

ryan
May 22nd, 2006, 03:28 PM
Madison Avenue can be avoided in it's entirety. But that's my own wishful thinking...

Zerlina
May 22nd, 2006, 03:37 PM
I think that every big city can be "unsafe"!
And I agree with Lofter... your wallet can be in danger if your neighboords are lawyers!!! Oh God... I was forgetting that I'm a lawyer too! Ah ah ah!;) :D :D

kliq6
May 22nd, 2006, 03:50 PM
Woodlawn, Belmont, Eastchester, Country club/Throgs Neck and Riverdale would be places for you to look at in the Bronx.

as for Bk or BX, it depends where your going to school

Jake
May 22nd, 2006, 04:15 PM
By my racist strict standards, avoid anything on the eastern side of Brooklyn, and central Brooklyn is not for you unless you enjoy the great diversity of jewish ghettos, if you want Italians, Bay Ridge and Bensonhurst are your best guesses in this borough but you guys are dying out here and fast (I miss you :() so unless you like halal meat and la-di-da-da-da-dum-da-li-di-d-ta music all the time this may not be such a great place either. These days Italian neighborehoods are as Italian as Tunisia (aha, that's actually a great comparison I think)

Simply put if you have the money to buy a house move to Bay Ridge because there's plenty of places away from the masses that are quite beautiful, how much you'd actually enjoy renting here I don't really know.

People on this site are quick to jump to the RACIST! conclusion. Is it REALLY that goddamn outrageous that I want to live in a place that has American values and American culture? I TOLERATE others but nothing more than that, I have never said anything about the fact that I must see these people on the street but it's that everything American has been pushed aside for some crap in foreign languages is unacceptable to me.

Cut the liberal crap, you can't evict me for preferring THIS country over China, Mexico, Iraq, Pakistan, Puerto Rico, and everyplace else.

ironmike where do you live? I'll trade you my fake-italian/irish-but-really-arab neighborehood for your german irish, how about that?

or better yet, save some money and move to Battery Park City or Lennox Hill where nobody is racist but employs minorities to help those good old aspiring Americans.

ZippyTheChimp
May 22nd, 2006, 04:32 PM
Jake, cut the crap.

The man asked a question. The thread is not another soapbox for you to spew your venom, and lament how miserable your life in New York is.

kliq6
May 22nd, 2006, 04:44 PM
NYC has always been ethnic, when Italians moved to Bay Ridge they displaced others, its a cycle, its what this city has always been about and unless immigration is completely stopped it will always be like that, so why bother to complain, its reality

Jake
May 22nd, 2006, 05:04 PM
Jake, cut the crap.

The man asked a question. The thread is not another soapbox for you to spew your venom, and lament how miserable your life in New York is.

yes the man asked a question and was labeled a racist, very fair

Ninjahedge
May 22nd, 2006, 05:36 PM
yes the man asked a question and was labeled a racist, very fair


IOW, stow it Jake. I brought up the same point without trying to rattle people's cages. Please try to do the same if you can.

MrSpice
May 22nd, 2006, 05:44 PM
true, but if your not from here, and the first thing you ask is what safe or not, thats just wrong, come here and see for yourself, dont judge people and areas just on the race they may or may not be.

There are some areas in New York City (like East New York) that are really dangerous even after the fall in crime. Hundreds of murders that still ocurr in this city happen mostly in bad neighborhoods. And if you're a nice person, you would help others coming to the city and let them know what areas they should avoid,. And you want to judge for yourself and try walking dangerous neighborhoods, especially at night, feel free to do so and risk your own life. I think that you're so brainwashed and you don't even understand how silly what you just said sounds. When I move into a new, unknown to me city, I want to live in a safe area - sorry for being so selfish and I don't want to "test" neighborhoods for safety with my own life. He is doing the right thing - asking questions. And you're not helping him. Have you visited East New York or Faltbush in the evening? Please try that tonight and report back tomorrow.

Schadenfrau
May 22nd, 2006, 05:51 PM
In all seriousness, if people are going to post about how awful neighborhoods are, it should either be based upon hard facts or personal experience, not some idea they've cooked up on their own. Many neighborhoods in Brooklyn have far worse crime than Flatbush.

If anyone has "risked their own life," I'd love to hear about it.

ironmike9110
May 22nd, 2006, 05:57 PM
Jesus Christ, what the hell happened to this thread. All im doing is asking what areas are safe and what areas are unsafe and it turns into a race war...Like Mr. Spice said i am trying to learn about the city before i move into a place thats going to get me killed. I have about 1 year to learn as much as i can about the city, and i plan to. When i move their, i want to make sure im in a safe neighborhood and am somewhat knowledgable and can continue to learn from there...

MrSpice
May 22nd, 2006, 05:59 PM
In all seriousness, if people are going to post about how awful neighborhoods are, it should either be based upon hard facts or personal experience, not some idea they've cooked up on their own. Many neighborhoods in Brooklyn have far worse crime than Flatbush.

If anyone has "risked their own life," I'd love to hear about it.

The best indicator of that is property values. The safe areas are usually the most expensive ones while the dangerous ones have the lowest property values and not too many developments/sales at all. The other related indicator is wealth and income. The safest areas have high average income and worst areas usually are the poorest. Poor areas also tend to have a lot of publuc housing projects that not only look really hedious, but also breed crime and not a good place to be. Income distribution maps for NYC can be found on the internet. I think the best strategy is to choose a reliably good area.

MrSpice
May 22nd, 2006, 06:02 PM
Jesus Christ, what the hell happened to this thread. All im doing is asking what areas are safe and what areas are unsafe and it turns into a race war...Like Mr. Spice said i am trying to learn about the city before i move into a place thats going to get me killed. I have about 1 year to learn as much as i can about the city, and i plan to. When i move their, i want to make sure im in a safe neighborhood and am somewhat knowledgable and can continue to learn from there...

To give you good advice, we need to know this:
1) What is you budget and what kind of apartment/house you desire?
2) How important is fast commute for you and where are you planning to work? For example, Bay Ridge is a nice and safe area, but commute can be pretty bad.
3) Do you have kids and is it important for you to be in a good public school district?
4) Do you feel that having a car is a must and would love to have it? Parking can be very expensive in Manhattan (from $300/month and up).

ironmike9110
May 22nd, 2006, 06:13 PM
To give you good advice, we need to know this:
1) What is you budget and what kind of apartment/house you desire?
2) How important is fast commute for you and where are you planning to work? For example, Bay Ridge is a nice and safe area, but commute can be pretty bad.
3) Do you have kids and is it important for you to be in a good public school district?
4) Do you feel that having a car is a must and would love to have it? Parking can be very expensive in Manhattan (from $300/month and up).


ok, this is good, i should have been more specific...my bad. Im only going to be a college kid, as in some of my other threads im looking to go to Baruch College after my first year of community college, thats why i have to wait one year. Im young and only need a studio apartment, i probably should have said im trying to find an apartment for around 800 a month so i know im not going to be able to find the safest place in the city, so thats why im just trying to weed out the really bad areas and trying to find places that arent too bad. Commute isnt going to be a big problem but i dont want to have to take an hour every morning to get to manhattan to go to school. Obviusoly the kids part about a school district isnt important and i know in NYC you dont need to have a car so i am planning to just use public transportation.

rknarr
May 22nd, 2006, 06:17 PM
Maybe ill jump in with my post here, im basically in the same boat as ironmike (see above) im looking for an apartment that has easy access to St. John's U. It possible to find an apartment in the queens area studio size in a decent building for 900 or so a month?

ironmike9110
May 22nd, 2006, 06:19 PM
Maybe ill jump in with my post here, im basically in the same boat as ironmike (see above) im looking for an apartment that has easy access to St. John's U. It possible to find an apartment in the queens area studio size in a decent building for 900 or so a month?


i forget, did you say your moving this year or next???

LeCom
May 22nd, 2006, 06:24 PM
Bed Stuy also.

rknarr
May 22nd, 2006, 06:26 PM
next year for Fall 07

MrSpice
May 22nd, 2006, 06:31 PM
ok, this is good, i should have been more specific...my bad. Im only going to be a college kid, as in some of my other threads im looking to go to Baruch College after my first year of community college, thats why i have to wait one year. Im young and only need a studio apartment, i probably should have said im trying to find an apartment for around 800 a month so i know im not going to be able to find the safest place in the city, so thats why im just trying to weed out the really bad areas and trying to find places that arent too bad. Commute isnt going to be a big problem but i dont want to have to take an hour every morning to get to manhattan to go to school. Obviusoly the kids part about a school district isnt important and i know in NYC you dont need to have a car so i am planning to just use public transportation.

You can find a decent studio apartment in the Midwood, Sheepshead Bay or Bensonhurst areas of Brooklyn for 800. Just make sure you're not far from the subway (never live further than 10 min walk from the subway) and make sure there are grocery stores and other businesses nearby. To get a good apartment, you may have to pay 1-2 rents to the broker. You may be able to find apartment without a broker if you're lucky. If we assume that you settled on the corner of Coney Island Avenue and Kings Highway in Brooklyn, it will take you about 40-50 minutes door to door to get to Baruch. Some Queens areas can be closer, but I don't know much about Queens.

In the areas that I mentioned above, ONLY choose apartments that are located in the buildings. I.e., never rent in a private house. Private house owners usually provide as little heat as they legally can. I know several people that rented in private houses and felt really, really cold in the winter. Apartment buildings have central heat that that issue is not a problem there.

ironmike9110
May 22nd, 2006, 06:36 PM
You can find a decent studio apartment in the Midwood, Sheepshead Bay or Bensonhurst areas of Brooklyn for 800. Just make sure you're not far from the subway (never live further than 10 min walk from the subway) and make sure there are grocery stores and other businesses nearby. To get a good apartment, you may have to pay 1-2 rents to the broker. You may be able to find apartment without a broker if you're lucky. If we assume that you settled on the corner of Coney Island Avenue and Kings Highway in Brooklyn, it will take you about 40-50 minutes door to door to get to Baruch. Some Queens areas can be closer, but I don't know much about Queens.


i was looking into bensonhurst too, so thats cool...After utitlites how much you think it would cost? And it would be 40-50 mins from there? One last thing, what are some good websites to look for nyc apartments? thanks.

MrSpice
May 22nd, 2006, 06:48 PM
i was looking into bensonhurst too, so thats cool...After utitlites how much you think it would cost? And it would be 40-50 mins from there? One last thing, what are some good websites to look for nyc apartments? thanks.

This is subway map:
http://www.mta.nyc.ny.us/nyct/maps/submap.htm

Bensonhurst has a shopping street on 86th Street between 18th Avenue and 25th Avenue (the most happening area is between 18th Avenue and Bay Parkway). The subway D line runs above that street. You can see 18th Ave, 20th Ave and Bay Parkway stations on the map - there's where bensonhurst is. The best web site is craigslist. There's local Brooklyn newspaper called "Bay News" that you can buy in most deli/grocery stores/news stands in Brooklyn. The reality is that you have to be here, walk around, look at apartments and see for yourself. Finding a suitable apartment is not easy, especially when you're on the budget.

ablarc
May 22nd, 2006, 08:06 PM
If anyone has "risked their own life," I'd love to hear about it.
Actually, I believe a member of this forum not only risked it but lost it.

How quickly we forget.

Schadenfrau
May 22nd, 2006, 11:23 PM
I don't think this thread calls for sinking to that level, Ablarc.

Qwerky
May 23rd, 2006, 07:05 AM
i wish i knew where everyone was talking about, are the neighbours really that bad? :confused:

MrSpice
May 23rd, 2006, 09:47 AM
I don't think this thread calls for sinking to that level, Ablarc.

But he is right, Schadenfrau. Harlem is still a bad neighborhood and that sad death was a grim reminder that this city is safer but still not safe and poor neighborhoods should be visited only during the day and caution should be excercised.

bkmonkey
May 23rd, 2006, 09:52 AM
Having recently been to Harlem at 2 in the morning and seeing the nightlife in the area, I would not call it a "bad neighborhood". People often characterize bad neighborhoods, by places that they are themselves afraid to go to, or don't understand. Im not saying anybody is racist, but its one thing to see a neighborhoold on television, or drive by in a car and its another to walk around it and get a sense on tv.
With that said, all the nieghborhoods that have elevated crime leves such as East NY and the South Bronx have MASSIVE amounts of police on duty, especially at night. I often see at least a patrolman on each block (on main streets) and cars driving by on the side streets.

MrSpice
May 23rd, 2006, 10:00 AM
Having recently been to Harlem at 2 in the morning and seeing the nightlife in the area, I would not call it a "bad neighborhood". People often characterize bad neighborhoods, by places that they are themselves afraid to go to, or don't understand. Im not saying anybody is racist, but its one thing to see a neighborhoold on television, or drive by in a car and its another to walk around it and get a sense on tv.
With that said, all the nieghborhoods that have elevated crime leves such as East NY and the South Bronx have MASSIVE amounts of police on duty, especially at night. I often see at least a patrolman on each block (on main streets) and cars driving by on the side streets.

But you cannot rely on the fact that there will be a patrolman on every block. If there's one - yes, it's very safe. But if some of those fine officers decide to get some pizza, it may not be that safe :)

Harlem is a big area - some parts are safer than the other. As I said, I would particularly avoid areas where there are large housing projects, especially at night. It's probably much safer to hang around one of the newly built condos in Harlem :)

Ninjahedge
May 23rd, 2006, 10:26 AM
So don't go walking about the neighborhood, at 3AM listening to your Ipod, talking on your Cell Phone looking nervously about you as you scurry to wherever you are going.

There ARE safer locations, but lets not focus on all the BS out there. Just give him the strait poop and leave it at that.

cathyx
May 23rd, 2006, 10:58 AM
Well might i have had luck when i was there (near Harlem a few ago)?
It was really quiet. Sure as I was a foreigner people looked at me with a lot of curiosity but it was funny, it was cool. The only thing that i regret is that it didn't work as i wanted 'businessly':mad: and so I'd have lived "la bohême" there, believe me!!!

Schadenfrau
May 23rd, 2006, 10:59 AM
This should be the final word on the subject:

http://www.ci.nyc.ny.us/html/nypd/html/pct/cspdf.html

cathyx
May 23rd, 2006, 11:09 AM
Schadenfrau, Sind Sie eine deutsche-sprächige person? :D (transl: are you a french-speaking person?).
thanks for the stuff but it's too long to be read... lol

Ninjahedge
May 23rd, 2006, 12:15 PM
Schadenfrau, Sind Sie eine deutsche-sprächige person? :D (transl: are you a french-speaking person?).
thanks for the stuff but it's too long to be read... lol


>cough<Deutsche means German>cough<

cathyx
May 24th, 2006, 09:36 AM
you're right, ninjahedge, it's "GERMAN-speaking..." L'erreur est humaine!!!:D

lofter1
May 24th, 2006, 10:36 AM
Club goers might want to avoid late nights around Chelsea / Ladies Mile area:

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/05/24/nyregion/24shoot.html

http://www.nypost.com/news/regionalnews/69057.htm

James_Oz
May 24th, 2006, 11:50 AM
I'm from Perth, Oz but from the research I've done these are the dodgy neighbourhoods in NYC (excluding Staten Island as it never comes up in any discussion on anything related to NYC, strangely) :

Manhattan
- Alphabet city (avenues A-D in the Lower East Side) - this is because a large number of housing projects remain;
- Harlem through Inwood (roughly above 100th street);

Brooklyn
- Brownsville
- East New York
- Bedford-Stuyvesant
- Red Hook

Queens
- Queensbridge
- Jamaica

Bronx
- Basically the whole of the South Bronx; there are tons of housing projects dotted throughout this area - Eg Melrose, Mott Haven, Tremont, University Heights.


Lets face it you can go anywhere with common sense and street-smarts. But from what my friends have told me the above neighbourhoods are filled with poor minorities who live in poverty, drugs and crime. Same as anywhere else. I'm not sure why you would want to go there unless you haven't seen neighbourhoods like these before.

I think the neighbourhood with the worst rep is the entire borough of the Bronx, due to "Fort Apache-The Bronx" and other films and its usage in pop. culture. But remember Tyson comes from Brownsville, and even Manhattan has its bad spots.

I think it would be particularly wise to steer clear of housing projects. These are filled with, and surrounded by, poor, bored people who are just waiting for a rich tourist-type to come by; it'd be like a field day for them. Anyway, you'll be able to tell fairly quickly by the vibe of any neighbourhood whether you want to be there or not.

Ultimately you're more likely to get run down crossing the street than be a victim of street crime in NYC, so I'd say chill out and enjoy your time in the greatest city in the world!

lofter1
May 24th, 2006, 11:57 AM
I'm from Perth, Oz ...

Well my foreign friend -- you are even more likely to get ripped off in any NYC restaurant / bar (simply due to the outrageous prices ) or hotel (same reason) -- but I guess in those situations you have agreed to have your money taken, so it is not the same, eh? ;)

James_Oz
May 24th, 2006, 12:07 PM
Perhaps, but come on. $1.99 for a 40 Oz of Colt 45? Nothing we have in Oz can compete with that kind of bargain!

Ninjahedge
May 24th, 2006, 12:16 PM
Perhaps, but come on. $1.99 for a 40 Oz of Colt 45? Nothing we have in Oz can compete with that kind of bargain!


I hear those Munchkins make a mean Barleywine though!!!

Just ask the Lollipop Guild!

ironmike9110
May 24th, 2006, 12:29 PM
so how is fordham in the bronx??? Someone said tremont is bad, does fodham have alot of housing projects...they have st. johns so i firgured they might be a little safer area.

Schadenfrau
May 24th, 2006, 12:39 PM
I think you need to go back to the drawing board, James. Apartments in Alphabet City are selling for millions of dollars, and Morningside Heights has very nice blocks. And Red Hook? Please.

Crime is based upon a lot more than housing projects, and criminals are mobile, not the "bored, poor minorities" sitting around waiting outside their apartments, looking for someone to rob.

Schadenfrau
May 24th, 2006, 12:53 PM
Here's a helpful guide to NYC neighborhoods:

http://www.newyorkmetro.com/realestate/articles/03/realestate2003/neighborhood_map.htm

Cross reference that information with the crime statistics I posted earlier in the thread, and you will find a much more reliable result than the hysterical warnings about risking your life and offensive sterotyping of poor minorities.

MrSpice
May 24th, 2006, 01:20 PM
Crime is based upon a lot more than housing projects, and criminals are mobile, not the "bored, poor minorities" sitting around waiting outside their apartments, looking for someone to rob.

Not all of them are, but many are just like that - as sad and as politically incorrect as it is.

Schadenfrau
May 24th, 2006, 01:34 PM
Many UES-dwelling Russian immigrants are reactionary fools, but not all of them. Sad, but true.

ryan
May 24th, 2006, 04:18 PM
Here's a link (http://www.walkingaround.com/) to a site that details the various ethnic groups in NYC neighborhoods. Should help everyone avoid the ethnic group(s) they hate.

NYatKNIGHT
May 24th, 2006, 04:29 PM
I was unaware that Park Slope is a lesbian neighborhood.

ryan
May 24th, 2006, 04:35 PM
It seems a bit out of date to me too. The site provides and email address (http://www.wirednewyork.com/forum/morgan@westegg.com) to send in updates. There are still lots of lesbians in PS (and a couple lesbians bars, which is a lot as far as these things go), but I hear they're moving to Bed Sty and Windsor Terrace. Not the most visible demographic...

Ninjahedge
May 25th, 2006, 09:34 AM
Here's a link (http://www.walkingaround.com/) to a site that details the various ethnic groups in NYC neighborhoods. Should help everyone avoid the ethnic group(s) they hate.

Do you always have to look at the glass as half full.....

....Of Crap?


And you know that you have to be careful of those stealth Lesbos. They can sneak up on you in a moments notice and.... Do... LESBIAN THINGS!!!!!!


Very dangerous!

arbeiter
May 25th, 2006, 10:03 AM
I definitely don't agree with Red Hook or Alphabet City being classified as unsafe.

I was mugged in Bed-Stuy a few weeks ago, but I'm still not going to avoid it. This is the price you pay for living in a city like New York.

MrSpice
May 25th, 2006, 10:22 AM
Many UES-dwelling Russian immigrants are reactionary fools, but not all of them. Sad, but true.

It is very possible that you are right and that most Russian immigrants that populate UES are fools. But here is the difference between your analogy and what I said:

Fools aren't any more likely to commit violent crimes, so as long as fools are only fooling themselves, it's their problem.

There's no statistics or any other reliable information that would indicate that russians living on the UES (a very small number) are fools. However, most of the violent crimes in the city, including robberies, assaults and murders are committed in those poor neighborhoods and they are not committed by russian fools - mostly (Russians are much better at cheating people out of their money for which there have been several well-publicized cases).

It's all a question of probability. When you know that the crime rate is high in a certain area, it does not mean that you're going to be attacked. But if you want to minimize your chances of being attacked or hurt, you better not venture into the areas where most crimes are committed, especially after dark. It's just common sense. But you're so brain-washed that you cannot truthfully and objectively look at the situation. It's obvious that poverty breeds crime.

ryan
May 25th, 2006, 11:38 AM
But you're so brain-washed that you cannot truthfully and objectively look at the situation. It's obvious that poverty breeds crime.

You're not being objective - you said the weathiest neighborhoods were the safest. Schadenfrau linked to actual crime stats. That's objective. The problem with the question of safety in this context is that people are throwing around racist and classist prejudices (which are subjective). We all have some kind of prejudice, so let's just drop the pretense and acknowledge that the answers most people are throwing out are not objective. Everyone is speaking to their own comfort in certain neighborhoods.

MrSpice
May 25th, 2006, 12:03 PM
You're not being objective - you said the weathiest neighborhoods were the safest. Schadenfrau linked to actual crime stats. That's objective. The problem with the question of safety in this context is that people are throwing around racist and classist prejudices (which are subjective). We all have some kind of prejudice, so let's just drop the pretense and acknowledge that the answers most people are throwing out are not objective. Everyone is speaking to their own comfort in certain neighborhoods.

Many of those precincts lie in the mixed neighborhoods. I.e., one precinct can cover some bad and some good areas. And looking at the objective statistics for the precincts, I see quite a bit of crime in areas like Brownsville and East New York for the precincts located in these areas.

timbaker
May 25th, 2006, 05:01 PM
You sound racist to me

I'll be visiting NYC next week, 5/29 - 6/1, and I too was curious as to what neighborhoods to avoid in order to better my chances of NOT being mugged. So, I began to read the thread, but you immediately turned the topic into racism.

How is it that someone "sounds racist" to you because they want to stay away from the "dangerous" neighborhoods? Let me give a quick math lesson if you will: If Neighborhood_1 had 50 muggings within a four block radius last year, and Neighborhood_2 had 2 muggings within the same radius, all other things being equal, it shouldn't take a math genius to figure out that a person has a lot better chance of being mugged in Neighborhood_1 than in Neighborhood_2, NO? And personally, I don't care if you're white, black, chinese, puerto-rican, or a combination of. If you're going to steal my wallet, I'm going to try to avoid you. So from that view, I am not racist - I avoid ANY and ALL people who want to rob me!!

This next one kills me:

...if your not from here, and the first thing you ask is what safe or not, thats just wrong, come here and see for yourself, dont judge people and areas just on the race they may or may not be.

Um, yeah, I'll get right on that. I'll show that I'm not a "racist" by strolling smack dab through the middle of all the downtrodden neighborhoods, alone at night, with no worries of being robbed to "find out for myself" :eek:

Let me guess... Your'e NOT a tourist advisor! Am I right?:)

It sounds to me like YOU have the problem with race, and I won't even humor you by indicating what race I am. But please, it's comments like these that cheapen the the struggle against racism, and even make them worse.

Cheers!

Schadenfrau
May 25th, 2006, 05:38 PM
Let me add a quick math lesson of my own.

We'll do a compare/contrast between the 19th Precinct on the Upper East Side and the 40th Precinct in the South Bronx.

19th Precinct, 2005:
Robberies- 307
Burglaries- 477
Grand Larcenies- 1,889
Number of Housing Projects- 3

40th Precinct, 2005:
Robberies- 553
Burglaries- 241
Grand Larcenies- 376
Number of Housing Projects- 11

How exactly are those numbers supported by the fear-mongering garbage posted on this thread?

It's important to remember that the majority of crime is interpersonal, particularly in poorer neighborhoods.

It seems like the people who are howling the loudest about the dangers of housing projects and the people who live in them are people who have no actual familiarity with what they're talking about.

Still, people will believe whatever they want to believe. If you'd pass over NYPD crime statistics in favor of someone living in Australia declaring that Red Hook and Alphabet City are no-go zones, by all means, go ahead. And have fun in Times Square, located in a precinct with 332 robberies and 617 burglaries last year. Oh, and no housing projects at all.

Ninjahedge
May 25th, 2006, 06:51 PM
Schade, stop posting district tallies and start posting criminal backgrounds of individuals involed in violent crime in NYC.

We all know numbers, while they can't lie, can be made to tell some awfully wacky things.

(My bad, Kliq) came in here with his Minority Discrimination guns a-blazing when nobody was saying anything about them and managed to piss most of the people off, including the guy asking the question.

Wouldn't it be funny if the guy was black? Well, maybe not funny, but definitely Ironic.

->ryan chipped in, but he was not the gun-blazer.... Again, my bad on the original<-

As for the arguement, there is no point in saying anything to either of you guys on a subject you are obviously charged about. It never ends and always gets more heated.

The only thing I can ask of both of you is to do the forum a favor and play dumb to any inferred reference YOU feel has been made in these venues. Most of the time there is no reference, intended or not, and it only serves to divide the community.

Asking someone to be careful or more considerate in a PM is one thnig, but shouting "racist" when someone talks of crimes in poor areas is just looking for a fight.

'Nuff said.

James_Oz
May 25th, 2006, 09:12 PM
Robberies and grand larcenies are hardly ever reported. So the statistics are flawed. Of course there will be more burglaries in an area where there is more to burgle.

Posting murder statistics might get you close, but likely not very close, to the reality of a given neighbourhood.

The poster asked for "bad neighbourhoods to avoid". I never said those mentioned were no-go zones. NYC is not Baghdad. However, you would probably be wise to avoid them for the most part. Sure, Alphabet City is supposedly reviving in Avs. A & B. But C & D are still very dodgy, apparently. Even Harlem has less crime than before but that doesn't make it a safe place to live. Just because this isn't 1970's NYC doesn't mean there aren't still some shitholes in the city that should be avoided.

The topic is probably moot anyway because you can generally tell a bad neighbourhood from some distance away. It's not like the poster is just going to stumble into the 'hood and ask some gang banger for directions to central park.

Schadenfrau
May 26th, 2006, 12:05 AM
Schade, stop posting district tallies and start posting criminal backgrounds of individuals involed in violent crime in NYC.

Asking someone to be careful or more considerate in a PM is one thnig, but shouting "racist" when someone talks of crimes in poor areas is just looking for a fight.

In response to the first suggestion, I'm not sure what good posting "criminal backgrounds" would do for anyone. The question posed in this thread was about neighborhoods, not whether or not specific criminals involved in specific crimes grew up in North Dakota or not.

Secondly, neither Ryan nor I threw down the race card. If you're going to play at being a moderator, give credit where it's due, Ninjahedge. I just jumped on the bandwagon; Ryan didn't even go that far.

Ninjahedge
May 26th, 2006, 09:04 AM
In response to the first suggestion, I'm not sure what good posting "criminal backgrounds" would do for anyone.

It would make it so that you would be able to see where most of these guys are coming from and where they did their deeds rather than where they were arrested as shown by district.


The question posed in this thread was about neighborhoods, not whether or not specific criminals involved in specific crimes grew up in North Dakota or not.

I never asked for that. How many live in the Bronx? Where did they commit their crimes and how. Don't divide it by precinct. Like I said, most of us do not know NYC by its police precincts, so reporting crime by them helps very little.

Also considering the fact that crime itself usually does not delineate where these precincts are laid out, it does not offer us a clear picture on where visitors should be more cautious about going.


Secondly, neither Ryan nor I threw down the race card.

Sorry, (my bad), Kliq was devils advocate at the start...

But comments like this:


Here's a link to a site that details the various ethnic groups in NYC neighborhoods. Should help everyone avoid the ethnic group(s) they hate.

Don't exactly help things.

Most of the people here were careful to try to associate crime with socioeconomic brackets rather than race.

If you do not see it that way, there is nothing I can do to make you.


If you're going to play at being a moderator, give credit where it's due, Ninjahedge. I just jumped on the bandwagon; Ryan didn't even go that far.

Go how far? That makes no sense Schade. As for "playing" moderator, I am just trying to get you to stop arguing. Since when is that a bad thing? You mean I am only allowed to come on here and argue with people or avoid the topic when I see a subject that is getting out of hand?

Did I ever threaten any action? "Stop this or I will tell on you!". No, I didn't.

And stop using "moderator" like a curse word. I would rather have things moderated than unbridled OR restricted.



I reigned myself in on a long (probably about 30 minutes worth of typing) response to all the things you and ryan are going on about, but it would have served no purpose.

It would not have answered the threads original question and it would not have changed either of your minds. You think your posts here are going to do anything about changing anyone else's minds? The only thing the arguing has done has made a new, and possibly quite moderate person, alienated from this forum.

We should all try to avoid this. I have been to enough forums that have died because the long-time squatters there start marking their territory on everything and anyone that comes in. As the long timers fade out, and are not replaced by anyone new, the discussions stagnate and all you are left with are 5 people having the same arguments over and over again.

Lets not do that.

No finger pointing. No "well he started it". Nothing. Lets try to keep the arguments to a low roar and make this forum more inviting to new people that may not be 100% what we are looking for, but still contribute to the community.

If not, whatever. Your choice. Your life.

Asta.

krulltime
May 26th, 2006, 09:13 AM
Ryan came in here with his Minority Discrimination guns a-blazing when nobody was saying anything about them and managed to piss most of the people off, including the guy asking the question.

Ryan? Don't you mean kliq6?

MrSpice
May 26th, 2006, 10:12 AM
Let me add a quick math lesson of my own.

We'll do a compare/contrast between the 19th Precinct on the Upper East Side and the 40th Precinct in the South Bronx.

19th Precinct, 2005:
Robberies- 307
Burglaries- 477
Grand Larcenies- 1,889
Number of Housing Projects- 3

40th Precinct, 2005:
Robberies- 553
Burglaries- 241
Grand Larcenies- 376
Number of Housing Projects- 11

How exactly are those numbers supported by the fear-mongering garbage posted on this thread?

It's important to remember that the majority of crime is interpersonal, particularly in poorer neighborhoods.

It seems like the people who are howling the loudest about the dangers of housing projects and the people who live in them are people who have no actual familiarity with what they're talking about.

Still, people will believe whatever they want to believe. If you'd pass over NYPD crime statistics in favor of someone living in Australia declaring that Red Hook and Alphabet City are no-go zones, by all means, go ahead. And have fun in Times Square, located in a precinct with 332 robberies and 617 burglaries last year. Oh, and no housing projects at all.

Why don't you show as an example and take a walk in East New York or Crown Heights after dark?
Have you been to Harlem after dark? I am not talking about a subweay station on 125th Street where lots of people are coming from work in the evening. I mean, deeper into Harlem in the evening?

have you ever been to these neighborhoods? Well, I have. And it's pretty scary - not because I am biased or have prejudice, it is objectively scary. Try it and then we will talk about precincts.

James_Oz
May 26th, 2006, 10:25 AM
Agree with above.

It's so easy to objectively sit back and quote crime statistics.

Hell half the neighbourhoods that are only moderately "bad" in NYC would make many people feel intimidated.

There are even neighbourhoods in my little country-town of a city that are unbelievably dangerous to walk through, alone, after dark.

Of course this isn't to say that you will be jumped, bashed, and killed by walking through any of the neighbourhoods I mentioned. But you will likely feel intimidated walking through them and are putting yourself at some risk if you go there after dark, alone.

So, the general rule is - avoid far eastern Brooklyn, Jamaica etc in Queens, south Bronx and far northern Manhattan. You will then be avoiding the majority of "bad neighbourhoods".

arbeiter
May 26th, 2006, 11:46 AM
James, what business do you even have in here?

This fearmongering is exactly why New York continues to have a bad reputation among some. Sure, Avenue C and D aren't perfect, but who goes that far east? All of the bars and restaurants are west of there.

It seems some people are coming on here just to have their already-determined viewpoint upheld, and are not interested in advice from locals.

Go hang out on West 79th if you're really that freaking scared, people. We don't need you around our 'real' neighborhoods.

NYatKNIGHT
May 26th, 2006, 12:19 PM
It seems some people are coming on here just to have their already-determined viewpoint upheld, and are not interested in advice from locals.You nailed it.

James_Oz
May 26th, 2006, 07:13 PM
The original poster asked a simple question, which I answered. Pretty straight-forward.

As far as I can tell the "locals" here are only interested in stating that NYC is a city without a single bad neighbourhood.

You even stated yourself - "who goes that far east"? I dunno, but the original poster now knows not to. Which is why he asked the question in the first place.

If you're that freaking hardcore, go back to loitering outside Morrisania Air Rights. We don't need you street - toughs on west 79th.

Bright Lights, Big City
May 28th, 2006, 03:42 PM
Jake said:

"Cut the liberal crap, you can't evict me for preferring THIS country over China, Mexico, Iraq, Pakistan, Puerto Rico, and everyplace else."

Just so you know, Puerto Rico is part of the US, not another country.

Perhaps this is part of what you love about America - not needing to know that Puerto Rico is part of your country.

peace

BL, BC

milleniumcab
May 29th, 2006, 01:46 AM
You said you wiil be staying for 3 days. Don't worry you won't have time to hit the BAD STREETS. I drive a cab and tell all tourists what I'm gonna tell you. Use your common sense and you will be allright. New York have never been safer but don't take a hundred dollar bill and wave it in the air. Get it...:):):)
I'll be visiting NYC next week, 5/29 - 6/1, and I too was curious as to what neighborhoods to avoid in order to better my chances of NOT being mugged. So, I began to read the thread, but you immediately turned the topic into racism.

How is it that someone "sounds racist" to you because they want to stay away from the "dangerous" neighborhoods? Let me give a quick math lesson if you will: If Neighborhood_1 had 50 muggings within a four block radius last year, and Neighborhood_2 had 2 muggings within the same radius, all other things being equal, it shouldn't take a math genius to figure out that a person has a lot better chance of being mugged in Neighborhood_1 than in Neighborhood_2, NO? And personally, I don't care if you're white, black, chinese, puerto-rican, or a combination of. If you're going to steal my wallet, I'm going to try to avoid you. So from that view, I am not racist - I avoid ANY and ALL people who want to rob me!!

This next one kills me:


Um, yeah, I'll get right on that. I'll show that I'm not a "racist" by strolling smack dab through the middle of all the downtrodden neighborhoods, alone at night, with no worries of being robbed to "find out for myself" :eek:

Let me guess... Your'e NOT a tourist advisor! Am I right?:)

It sounds to me like YOU have the problem with race, and I won't even humor you by indicating what race I am. But please, it's comments like these that cheapen the the struggle against racism, and even make them worse.

Cheers!

milleniumcab
May 29th, 2006, 01:58 AM
I live in probably the best neighborhood in Manhattan. Guess what, I'll go meet my wife at the bus stop every night, on her way home from work at 2:00 am.. Like I said before, use your common sense, you will be allright, especially if you are visiting...;)
Why don't you show as an example and take a walk in East New York or Crown Heights after dark?
Have you been to Harlem after dark? I am not talking about a subweay station on 125th Street where lots of people are coming from work in the evening. I mean, deeper into Harlem in the evening?

have you ever been to these neighborhoods? Well, I have. And it's pretty scary - not because I am biased or have prejudice, it is objectively scary. Try it and then we will talk about precincts.

Bright Lights, Big City
May 29th, 2006, 03:43 AM
As a visitor to NYC, I've been in many of the "bad" neighborhoods most tourists go out of their way to avoid, and I've come to learn that you are no more at risk in the South Bronx or Brooklyn North, or Harlem than anywhere else in the city.

That said, if you are not interested in poor neighborhoods and lack street smarts, then these neighborhoods might be very intimidating.

But really, is it any coincidence that all the bad neighborhoods listed in this thread just happen to be black and latino neighborhoods. I just can't help but think that people are afraid of these neighborhoods because they don't understand the culture and are under the impression that black and hispanic people are more violent/dangerous than other races.

If you scratch off Harlem, Wash. Heights, the South Bronx, North Brooklyn, Alphabet City east of Avenue B, Jamaica Queens, you've just segregated yourself from some of the most interesting and exciting ethnic neighborhoods in America.

I think that the fear of these neighborhoods has as much to do with race and class as it does fear of crime. It comes down to false perceptions that minority neighborhoods are more dangerous to tourists / non-residents than other New York neighborhoods, but this is BS. When I was in NYC last summer a couple tourists from Baltimore were walking around Times Square when they stumbled upon a jewelry store robbery. One of the tourists got shot and was in pretty bad shape. This happened in the biggest tourist district in the entire city, not in some "ghetto" north of 110th. Perhaps these same tourists had been told to avoid Harlem and all the other neighborhoods that are always listed as "no-go" areas (what is really meant by "no-go" is
"neighborhood where whites may feel threatened"), and thought to themselves, "Times Square wasn't on the list, so it must be safe."

The fact is that crime is random, and though some neighborhoods have higher rates of crime, that doesn't necessarily mean you have a higher chance of being a victim there.

Of course, some white people are comfortable with the notion that blacks and hispanics are dangerous and their neighborhoods are ghettos, but if you go up to Harlem or the South Bronx you'll find the people there to be pretty much the same as anywhere else. If you can possibly detach racial prejudices from your perception of the city, you'll soon find that these "no-go" neighborhoods are the most interesting neighborhoods in the entire city.

peace

BL, BC

James_Oz
May 29th, 2006, 04:50 AM
Yeah, but who the hell is able to detach racial prejudices from their viewpoint? Basically nobody born in the last 100 years.

There's a reason why more black and latino people commit more crime than white people.

And accordingly, there's a reason why white tourists fear treading into neighbourhoods filled with people who are black and latino.

I don't give a **** about stereotyping. It's reality that matters.

Walk through the south bronx in a $1000 dollar suit, gold watch and $500 shoes - without serious firepower. And see how long you last. Contrast that with walking through the Upper East Side.

It's sad but true that certain ethnic groups commit crime more than others. But if you ignore that fact, you're worse than a racist - you're even more ignorant than they are.

Bright Lights, Big City
May 29th, 2006, 12:01 PM
Yeah, but who the hell is able to detach racial prejudices from their viewpoint? Basically nobody born in the last 100 years.

There's a reason why more black and latino people commit more crime than white people.

And accordingly, there's a reason why white tourists fear treading into neighbourhoods filled with people who are black and latino.

I don't give a **** about stereotyping. It's reality that matters.

Walk through the south bronx in a $1000 dollar suit, gold watch and $500 shoes - without serious firepower. And see how long you last. Contrast that with walking through the Upper East Side.

It's sad but true that certain ethnic groups commit crime more than others. But if you ignore that fact, you're worse than a racist - you're even more ignorant than they are.

Typical cop-out. Just keep telling yourself that.

peace

BLBC

krulltime
May 29th, 2006, 06:16 PM
Walk through the south bronx in a $1000 dollar suit, gold watch and $500 shoes - without serious firepower. And see how long you last. Contrast that with walking through the Upper East Side.



What are you talking about?

Tourists with '$1000 dollar suit, gold watch and $500 shoes'? I dont' think so. Ordinary Tourists don't dress like that.

These rich people you are describing don't give a **** in visiting poor neighborhoods for tourism. Even if it happens to be a poor white neighborhood.

lofter1
May 29th, 2006, 06:20 PM
What ^^ ?? You never heard of "slumming"? ;)

Schadenfrau
May 29th, 2006, 11:26 PM
Walk through the south bronx in a $1000 dollar suit, gold watch and $500 shoes - without serious firepower. And see how long you last. Contrast that with walking through the Upper East Side.

It's sad but true that certain ethnic groups commit crime more than others. But if you ignore that fact, you're worse than a racist - you're even more ignorant than they are.

James, have you ever been to any of these neighborhoods you're ranting about, or have you just hear about them from your home in small-town Australia?

I've walked through the South Bronx wearing all variety of expensive and inexpensive clothing nearly every day for six years. All without the benefit of "serious firepower." Do you see how long I've lasted?

That's not to say that no one gets robbed in the South Bronx, or anywhere else in the city. Like everyone has said, use common sense. Also, learn a bit more about crime before you decide that you're an expert on the subject.

I'd advise you to use some common sense on this thread, too. You look more ignorant than anyone else you're deriding when you've clearly got zero experience with anything you speak of.

plado37
May 30th, 2006, 07:41 AM
Yeah, but who the hell is able to detach racial prejudices from their viewpoint? Basically nobody born in the last 100 years.

There's a reason why more black and latino people commit more crime than white people.

And accordingly, there's a reason why white tourists fear treading into neighbourhoods filled with people who are black and latino.

I don't give a **** about stereotyping. It's reality that matters.

Walk through the south bronx in a $1000 dollar suit, gold watch and $500 shoes - without serious firepower. And see how long you last. Contrast that with walking through the Upper East Side.

It's sad but true that certain ethnic groups commit crime more than others. But if you ignore that fact, you're worse than a racist - you're even more ignorant than they are.
I have not spent much time walking through the Bronx at 3 am, if any. However I do know that it can be a dangerous area. Let’s look at things in a different way. I live in UES, I am lucky enough to afford the absolutely ridiculous and outrageous rents that will come with it. The UES has predominantly been “the place” to live; it has never had problems with bad education because most of the kids who live there go to well off private schools. The education level is so much higher; the taxes it receives are incredible because of the surrounding wealth. The UES is the “White collar” living area of New York in traditional opinions. The farther away you move from the UES which ends on 86th street the farther way you are from the financial district and Mid Town. This means that expensive apartments are less abundant, and poverty starts to kick in. Rather then the strong white collar families, you are seeing the backbone NYC’s work force. The wages they receive are far from good, the education there children receive are far from good, and living environments are far from good. So maybe we should be a little more generous with our Tax money, instead of supporting and neglecting poor educational systems, maybe we should embrace them, and until we do no one will feel safe in those areas, including the people who live there that is where the problem lies. It isn’t because of ethnic groups that these areas are so dangerous, that is just a small minded parochial way of thinking. The problem lies in the educational system. James if you grew up in the Bronx where your parents had no money, the schools you attended were awful, and the people you looked up to were street thugs, don’t you think that crime would be rampant? These people do not know any better, it is not because of there race, ethnicity or religious background, it is simply because of our negligence as a society. I would assure you that if you made you grow up in the “projects” that you would turn into the exact opposite of what you are today. It is because they have no way out, and see no way out.

PS. We were all immigrants, if we gave these groups a chance then maybe they could prosper like all of us.

Ninjahedge
May 30th, 2006, 09:11 AM
It is not a question of shunning and ostracizing.

The main problem is that human beings are pack animals that are still very sight-oriented.

So what happens? We group together with people that LOOK like we do. Never-mind culture! Culture is secondary! You have to look like the people you are with.

It always gets me when there are so many punked-out young adults that want to look different, just like everyone else. Same goes with yuppies, homies and the rest of us.

Now take this nice little loop.

Most "blue collar" crime, namely muggings, beatings and the like, are perpetrated by people without the means and methods to rob, steal and take advantage of people in other ways (such as skimming off your 401K account, etc etc).

The direct need is there and the lack of alternative means relegates people at blue collar and below to more basic means of obtaining funding quickly.

Unfortunately, in NYC and certain other areas, this lower income bracket is not dominated, but definitely strongly represented by minorities and/or recent immigrants.

The general public, who is not too inclined to keep complicated items in their heads like the socioeconomic forces that make these situations happen, simply take the shortcut and directly associate minority with crime. It works for their life! They do not work in and around most of these people, and it is easier for them to just categorize and avoid them than it is for them to think and do the work for themselves in regards to finding out what they are all about.

So whatever. You guys can keep yelling at each other about this for a few more pages and have some guys coming up with ridiculous hyper-extrapolations such as Donald Trump walking drunk through Washington Heights with diamonds falling out of his pockets or you can start realizing what really motivates these responses and start dealing with them.


How? Hey, if I was smart enough to get people to think differently on a wide scale, I would be president not some schmoe posting on a BBS. ;)

I will leave all that stuff to you guys!

plado37
May 30th, 2006, 09:22 AM
I have to agree, you must all remeber America is the Land of Oppertunity, and New York City is the City which streets are paved in Gold...

Ninjahedge
May 30th, 2006, 12:48 PM
I have to agree, you must all remeber America is the Land of Oppertunity, and New York City is the City which streets are paved in Gold...

And that was a rare peice of inspirational elephant....blessing?

MrSpice
May 30th, 2006, 01:00 PM
James, have you ever been to any of these neighborhoods you're ranting about, or have you just hear about them from your home in small-town Australia?

I've walked through the South Bronx wearing all variety of expensive and inexpensive clothing nearly every day for six years. All without the benefit of "serious firepower." Do you see how long I've lasted?

That's not to say that no one gets robbed in the South Bronx, or anywhere else in the city. Like everyone has said, use common sense. Also, learn a bit more about crime before you decide that you're an expert on the subject.

I'd advise you to use some common sense on this thread, too. You look more ignorant than anyone else you're deriding when you've clearly got zero experience with anything you speak of.

You're right about common sense. But the question was specifically about neighborhoods one should generally avoid. Obviously, many people walk through South Bronx every day and have no problem. I lived in Sunset Park in Brooklyn for many years a while back. I had never had a problem even though it was a pretty touch neighborhood and some people did have a problem. When we talk about safe/unsafe neighborhoods, we are talking about probabilities. You can walk along Park Avenue at 5pm and be robbed, but the chances of that are quite low. Common sense is not walking in South Bronx at all unless work or familly circumstances demand it. It is common sense to avoid poor neighborhoods with well publicized and known gang/drug problems at night. And he is completely right - you are clearly steering the answer to this question into the politically correct mode. You point is: you have to be careful everywhere, just look around, all areas are the same, this is a big city - you're no safe anywhere if you're not careful... That's a total nonsense.

If you really think that you're as safe on the corner on 77th and Broadway on the wealthy Upper West Side as you are in the middle of South Bronx at 11pm, you're lying to yourself.

capoeta cypher
June 17th, 2006, 10:25 AM
Whoever made this thread is a ****. When someone usually refers to a "bad neighborhood", unfortunatly they mean a neighborhood that is mainly Black.

Oh, and the person who said Jamaica is bad, should learn about the area.

tbenson81
June 17th, 2006, 08:01 PM
There is absolutely nothing wrong with the original post. Why doesnt everyone on this board get a life and just answer the question. I am not from New York, but if someone asked what are the bad neighborhoods to avoid in Chicago - I could easily list them and say avoid this , this , this etc. Why cant someone do the same for NY without creating such drama?

The fact of the matter is - he is looking out for his well being and safety and that should be the number one concern for every tourist / visitor / new resident. Seems like there has been many replies on here from people with absolutely no common sense.

And for those who have been labeling the original poster a racist, you are the ones who have associated "bad neighborhoods" with minority groups, not him. So - Iron Mike - seems like there are some, but very few educated, intelligent people (Mr Spice / Zipper being 2 of the only ones) on this board......so you may want to ask your question somewhere else....to a better audience.

One of the best answers came from Oz on page 3. He just listed the boroughs and then the areas to avoid. Its not that difficult of a quesiton and those who are offended need to lose their insecurities and get a life.

Tony

lofter1
June 18th, 2006, 12:23 AM
Tony / tbenson81 -- Where are you from?

milleniumcab
June 18th, 2006, 01:01 AM
Since the only bad neighborhoods he can list are in Chicago, I'll guess Chicago..:)

OmegaNYC
June 18th, 2006, 02:55 AM
Well, as a outsider looking in. I really don't know the "bad" areas of NYC is. Though, I also feel that what one consider a "bad" area is up for debate. I live in Paterson, NJ. And people all over Jersey swear it is the worst place in America to live. When I tell people I'm from Paterson, they always tell me, "How can you live in such a rough city?". I think people just fear neighborhoods they don't understand, or not used to. I lived in this city my whole life, and I've never onced been mugged or attacked. I just use my head and know where to go, and what to avoid. If I feel like my safety is in danger, I will just leave. Simple as that.

Fabrizio
June 18th, 2006, 05:40 AM
This thread is just...strange....some of you folks are funny.

The original post simply asks: "Whats are the bad neighborhoods/areas to avoid in NYC."

So? My gosh...come to my country.... go to Naples and EVERYONE will tell you what neighborhoods to avoid. Has nothing to do with race...we&#180;re all white here....and I&#180;m half Neopolitan. But yeah...go into certain neighborhoods and see if you come back with your Rolex.

I lived in NYC for much of the 1970&#180;s and early 80&#180;s. Back then, there was a huge out-of-proportion street-crime problem with young black men. And so that&#180;s who you especially avoided in isolated areas at night. My black friends also did the same. There were of course a million reasons for the crime...and if I had been in these guys&#180; position, I probably would&#180;ve done the same...who knows....but none of that matters when you want to get home at 2 in the morning.... that&#180;s not the time to be a sociologist.

Excellent piece from NPR. Listen up:

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=4930683

http://blackvoices.aol.com/black_news/canvas_directory_headlines_features/feature_article/_a/plight-deepens-for-black-men-study-warns/20060320102309990001

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/entertainment/july-dec04/cosby_7-15.html

------------

Merry
June 18th, 2006, 06:56 AM
James, have you ever been to any of these neighborhoods you're ranting about, or have you just hear about them from your home in small-town Australia?

Why does expressing an opinion have to be referred to as "ranting". James_Oz didn't imply that he was an expert. Australia and the U.S. are demographically and culturally quite different. There is no need to be insulting and misleading about it. The majority of the Australian population lives in the major cities, albeit that they are, amongst other things, comparatively smaller than in the U.S. The U.S. also has many small towns.

Common sense is required to live safely in Australia, too.

ZippyTheChimp
June 18th, 2006, 07:12 AM
The only problem I have with James_Oz is the contradiction in his postings.


I'm from Perth, Oz but from the research I've done

Followed by:

Robberies and grand larcenies are hardly ever reported. So the statistics are flawed. Of course there will be more burglaries in an area where there is more to burgle.

Posting murder statistics might get you close, but likely not very close, to the reality of a given neighbourhood.


Agree with above.[that one should walk through a neighborhood]

It's so easy to objectively sit back and quote crime statistics.

I find it difficult enough to answer questions about neighborhood safety, given my own comfort level, and not knowing that of the person asking the question.

I don't know how someone on the other side of the world can do it.

tbenson81
June 18th, 2006, 08:40 AM
I am not saying Oz's post was accurate - I have no clue. I think thats what the poster is looking for though- just a simple straighforward answer.

And granted there is much debate on what neighborhoods are bad, some may think so and others not.

So, I will rephrase my question - because I would like to know as well.

For every resident New Yorker out there. In your best guess, what parts of Manhattan would Donald Trump not venture out to, by himself at night, (or even in the day time) on foot. In your best guess?

We are just using Trump as an example because he is a prominent New Yorker who is very smart and probably values his safety given his reputation and status. I dont want to hear any crap on why I picked him - he is just an example.

So can anyone who seems to know New York well (maybe Millenium Cab) just list the places (ie. Alphabet City, Harlem) etc.

I am indeed from Chicago. (How did you guys ever guess?)

Tony

Fabrizio
June 18th, 2006, 09:07 AM
"We are just using Trump as an example because he is a prominent New Yorker who is very smart and probably values his safety given his reputation and status. I dont want to hear any crap on why I picked him..."

Sorry Bud, but crap you will get...

You want a serious answer to this question: "In your best guess, what parts of Manhattan would Donald Trump not venture out to, by himself at night, (or even in the day time) on foot. In your best guess?"

Sorry but that&#180;s just so ridiculous. Ridiculous only because....well...what are you trying to prove? I doubt that the Donald hits the pavement alone very often. Maybe from a limo to his offices ...but even in that case he&#180;s got someone holding the umbrella.

-------------

ZippyTheChimp
June 18th, 2006, 09:47 AM
For every resident New Yorker out there.

We are just using Trump as an example because he is a prominent New Yorker who is very smart and probably values his safety given his reputation and status. I dont want to hear any crap on why I picked him - he is just an example. Do you expect to get a meaningful answer from any of us on what Donald Trump would do?

Speaking as a resident who values my safety and that of my family:

I would avoid Bushwick, Brooklyn.

lofter1
June 18th, 2006, 10:48 AM
The other problem with the way the question is posed is that NYC changes from block to block ... especially in Manhattan. This makes it very difficult -- and more than likely incorrect -- to label entire NYC "neighborhoods" (i.e.: areas that have been given a distinct name such as Chinatown, Washinigton Heights, Ft. Greene, etc.) as unsafe when it is more than likely that only very small pockets of those areas are to be avoided.

tbenson08: I'm still curious as to where you now live ...

tbenson81
June 18th, 2006, 11:15 AM
So Zippy - you are saying everywhere in Manhattan is safe?

I never expected you to forecast what Trump would do - You dont know - I asked what you think and where "you think" he would be unlikely to venture. And yes - I am looking for a meaninful answer. What parts of Manhattan would an upstanding, classy, family-oriented, educated individual want to avoid. Its not too difficult. I asked for a guess.......

Lofter- I have now answered your question 2 times in my 2 prior posts.

tbenson81
June 18th, 2006, 11:26 AM
This board is a lost cause

MrSpice or MilleniumCab. If you are married - you may not be. What parts of Manhattan would you feel very uncomfortable if your wife had to walk through there alone? (Daytime or night)?

Example: Central Park at night

Tony

lofter1
June 18th, 2006, 11:41 AM
Thanks ...

Chicago is a big place ... city center or ????

tbenson81
June 18th, 2006, 11:46 AM
I live in between Lakeview and Lincolnwood

Fabrizio
June 18th, 2006, 12:01 PM
After we´ve done Donald Trump, maybe we could do Martha Stewart:

What neighborhoods would Martha not venture out to, by herself at night, (or even in the day time) on foot.

In your best guess.

ZippyTheChimp
June 18th, 2006, 12:38 PM
tbenson81:

How did you get from my two statements in this thread:

I find it difficult enough to answer questions about neighborhood safety, given my own comfort level, and not knowing that of the person asking the question.

I would avoid Bushwick, Brooklyn.

to....

So Zippy - you are saying everywhere in Manhattan is safe?

I never expected you to forecast what Trump would do -That's exactly what you asked.

I am looking for a meaninful answer.If I told you what someone else would do, the answer would not be meaningful.

Before pronouncing this forum a lost cause, maybe you should attempt to understand the difficulty in defining "safe."

Case in point: Central Park crime stats:
http://www.nyc.gov/html/nypd/pdf/chfdept/cs022pct.pdf
One of the lowest crime rates anywhere in the city.

Would I be comfortable with my daughter walking alone through the park after dark?
No. But could say that about any isolated place anywhere. If something happens, you are alone.

So is it safe? Statistically, yes.

tbenson81
June 18th, 2006, 01:28 PM
the point is that everyone is making this a lot more complicated than it has to be.

lofter1
June 18th, 2006, 06:16 PM
What we are trying to explain is that it IS complicated, at least to those of us who live in NYC.

Neighborhoods in NYC are very BIG -- many, many blocks. It's not like you cross the street and crime ensues.

A woman was abducted & murdered just a couple of blocks from my home recently -- in what is thought to be one of the safer neighborhoods in NYC.

A nearby intersection has one of the highest pedestrian / bicyclist death rates in the entire city.

So by certain statistics you could say the neighborhood as a whole is not safe.

But that wouldn't necessarily paint a true picture ...

If you'd like to check out crime stats by NYC police precinct you can find all the info HERE (http://www.nyc.gov/html/nypd/html/pct/cspdf.html)

tbenson81
June 18th, 2006, 06:27 PM
This is where we are staying - Is this safe?

lofter1
June 18th, 2006, 06:52 PM
Looks fine: Google_Map (http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&q=420+w.138th+St.,+NY+10027&ie=UTF8&ll=40.820922,-73.951174&spn=0.003524,0.010632&t=h&om=1)

Across from City College, at the edge of the 26th Precinct ...

26th Precinct Patrols area bordered by W. 113rd St. to W. 141 St. between Hudson River and Amsterdam Ave

crime stats: http://www.nyc.gov/html/nypd/pdf/chfdept/cs026pct.pdf

tbenson81
June 18th, 2006, 08:15 PM
This is where the opening scene of Die Hard 3 was filmed. Looked a little shady.....you sure its ok? I guess it has to be if the Crime stats say so.

krulltime
June 18th, 2006, 10:14 PM
^ What do you mean by 'shady'?

lofter1
June 19th, 2006, 10:20 AM
"Die Hard 3" was shot way back in 1995.

Ninjahedge
June 19th, 2006, 10:43 AM
Well, as a outsider looking in. I really don't know the "bad" areas of NYC is. Though, I also feel that what one consider a "bad" area is up for debate. I live in Paterson, NJ. And people all over Jersey swear it is the worst place in America to live. When I tell people I'm from Paterson, they always tell me, "How can you live in such a rough city?". I think people just fear neighborhoods they don't understand, or not used to. I lived in this city my whole life, and I've never onced been mugged or attacked. I just use my head and know where to go, and what to avoid. If I feel like my safety is in danger, I will just leave. Simple as that.


My BIL works as a cop in Patterson.

Trust me, it is bad! ;)

Ninjahedge
June 19th, 2006, 10:55 AM
Maybe this would all work better if WE rephrased the question for him.

He is not from around here, and the definition that NYC has now for "Neighborhoods" does not quite fit. Chinatown is not a neighborhood, neither it Tribecca or SoHo. They are too big to be neighbohoods by NYC's own definitions.

A neighborhood is kind of the area where people know each other, visit the same grocery, same laundrimat, same barber etc etc. It would probably delinate an area that is about 1 block or so wide and about 5-10 blocks long.

Are there any areas that any of us would feel uncomfortable walking around at night if we looked like we were not native? I know I would feel uncomfortable walking down a back alley in Chintaown, but then again, what the hell would I be doing in a back alley???



In my own opinion, there are not a hell of a lot of areas I would avoid. NYC is not like the movies show. You will not be walking down the street in the middle of town with Crocodile Dundee and be mugged by a man wearing Michel Jackson attire.

You will also not turn a corner with your date after a broadway show and somehow end up in a scene out of Mean Streets.

So, in my opinion, I do not think you have much to worry about. Just don't be stupid.

MrSpice
June 19th, 2006, 11:07 AM
This is where we are staying - Is this safe?

That is not a safe neighborhood. Everything above 125th street on West Side is Harlem is generally not safe, especially after dark.


What parts of Manhattan would you feel very uncomfortable if your wife had to walk through there alone? (Daytime or night)?
I am married and I would be comfortable if my wife had to go through areas where there are lots of people, there are no housing projects and many stores and restaurants are open late at night. There are lots of areas like that:
1) Upper East Side and Midtown East - 1st, 2nd, 3rd avenue and 60s/70s/80s/90s streets are full of people and places to go to until very late hours of the night. On weekends, you will see lots of people walking around those areas.

2) Theater district - Times Square, 8th and 9th Avenue, 40s and 50s streets.

3) Soho, Greenvich Village, East Village - lots of people, bars, cafes, until early morning hours.

4) Park Slope and Carrol Gardens areas of Brooklyn - lots of places to go to.

5) Upper West Side - Broadway/Amseterdam/Columbus - 70s/80/90s and Columbia U. area.

6) Anywhere Downtown including Chinatown during the day and evening. Downtown becomes pretty empty late at night (after 9pm), although it's become more residential.

Schadenfrau
June 19th, 2006, 11:58 AM
There are housing projects in almost all of the neighborhoods you mention, MrSpice.

MrSpice
June 19th, 2006, 12:08 PM
There are housing projects in almost all of the neighborhoods you mention, MrSpice.

It's like saying: "there's crime everywhere"

How many housing projects are there in Times Square? How many are there on UES? You really want to stick to your political correctness and pretend that there's no difference between harlem where most people are poor and there are lots of housing projects and the areas I mentioned?

Either you're out of touch with reality or you're trying to stick to some kind of political agenda. But the truth is: NYC has improved a lot. Many of the bad areas got better. But poor areas are still dangerous, especially at night. Certainly, not a place for a women to hang out at night alone.

You should watch NY 1 more often - many of the reported muggings and other crimes happen around poor housing projects.

Fabrizio
June 19th, 2006, 12:22 PM
Mr. Spice is correct here....denying so is arrogant.

The original poster might also listen to this excellent piece from NPR (which I posted earlier but this is a new link). Speaks of the connection between poverty and crime:

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=4930683

More:

http://blackvoices.aol.com/black_news/canvas_directory_headlines_features/feature_article/_a/plight-deepens-for-black-men-study-warns/20060320102309990001

lofter1
June 19th, 2006, 12:26 PM
I know I would feel uncomfortable walking down a back alley in Chintaown, but then again, what the hell would I be doing in a back alley???

First you'd have to find one ...

There a just a handful of what could be described as an "alley" in Manhattan -- when they laid out the grid in the 1800's alleys were not included.

Most other alleys are closed off (see Shinbone Alley / Great Jones Alley) or have been built upon.

lofter1
June 19th, 2006, 12:29 PM
Everything above 125th street on West Side is Harlem is generally not safe, especially after dark.
It's this kind of sweeping statement that endears you to me, MS :confused:

Schadenfrau
June 19th, 2006, 12:38 PM
It's like saying: "there's crime everywhere"

How many housing projects are there in Times Square? How many are there on UES? You really want to stick to your political correctness and pretend that there's no difference between harlem where most people are poor and there are lots of housing projects and the areas I mentioned?

Either you're out of touch with reality or you're trying to stick to some kind of political agenda. But the truth is: NYC has improved a lot. Many of the bad areas got better. But poor areas are still dangerous, especially at night. Certainly, not a place for a women to hang out at night alone.

You should watch NY 1 more often - many of the reported muggings and other crimes happen around poor housing projects.

As I've posted before, there are no housing projects in Times Square. If you're curious about the location of other public housing, try an easy NYCHA search:

http://www.nyc.gov/html/nycha/html/developments/dev_guide.shtml

I was a block away from your apartment yesterday, and I walked through a very large public housing project, well below 96th Street.

Instead of "political correctness," maybe you should say that I stick to accuracy. I've never made the claim that all neighborhoods are equally safe, but if you're going to rant and rave about the terrors of housing projects, maybe you should remember the fact that you live next to one. A glass house is a glass house, whether it's in Harlem or Gramercy Park. You don't need to fret about the drama on NY1 to know that.

ZippyTheChimp
June 19th, 2006, 12:51 PM
The original question was not for a comparative study of crime levels among neighborhoods.

If neighborhood A has more crime than B, does it mean that A is a neighborhood to be avoided, but B is OK?

New York is pronounced a safe city, but almost 600 people are murdered each year. I gave my opinion that Bushwick is a bad neighborhood to be avoided. There are others, but I don't think I would make that blanket characterization about West Harlem.

Ninjahedge
June 19th, 2006, 01:31 PM
He is offering advice with a masonry hammer.

I do agree that Shade gets WAY to PC sometimes, but MS, you are using too broad a brushstroke in your descriptions.

I guess the only thing you should be mindful of is to go just about everywhere during the day, but if you do not feel comfortable there, do not stay there when night falls.

That is about it. It is not as if you were stuck in the field somewhere with no place to go, or in the movie-like steel/warehouse district right by the overpass after a recent rainfall where gangs, for some reason, avoid going out to clubs and having fun to just hang out there and beat up tourists and women with one broken heel. ;)


I hope you got the message Iron. The rest is just going to keep drolling on and on and on until something more interesting to argue about takes its place! ;)

Fabrizio
June 19th, 2006, 01:34 PM
Schadenfrau if YOU´RE going to stick to accuracy you should know that histrically housing projects have been a breeding ground for crime. We have the same problems here in Italy....and we all saw the problems with the projects in France. Certainly some are successfu, but the design of most, encourages crime.

Schadenfrau
June 19th, 2006, 01:37 PM
Where did I ever say that there's not crime in public housing projects? I was just pointing out that MrSpice is contradicting himself in telling people to avoid neighborhoods with housing projects, while saying that those same neighborhoods are the only safe places in the city at the same time. How does that make any sense?

krulltime
June 19th, 2006, 01:43 PM
^ I agree... Lincoln Center neighborhood has some housing projects. Those that mean that tourists should avoid this neighborhood?

Fabrizio
June 19th, 2006, 01:45 PM
His exact quote is the following:

"I would be comfortable if my wife had to go through areas where there are lots of people, there are no housing projects and many stores and restaurants are open late at night."

How would this sound:

"I would be comfortable if my wife had to go through areas where there are lots of people, and many stores and restaurants are open late at night. Uncomfortable if she were to walk through housing projects"

---------------

Krulltime: I would add: housing projects that contain a high percentage of young, poor, unemployed men ( listen to the studies on the NPR interview). The Lincoln Center projects don&#180;t house that demographic....it is a middle-income project.

Schadenfrau
June 19th, 2006, 01:55 PM
Fabrizio, look at this direct quote from MrSpice:

"I am married and I would be comfortable if my wife had to go through areas where there are lots of people, there are no housing projects and many stores and restaurants are open late at night. There are lots of areas like that:
1) Upper East Side and Midtown East - 1st, 2nd, 3rd avenue and 60s/70s/80s/90s streets are full of people and places to go to until very late hours of the night. On weekends, you will see lots of people walking around those areas."

MrSpice has posted many times about living on 93rd Street and 2nd Avenue, and he has posted many times about how no one should go anywhere near housing projects.

Now look at this:

http://www.nyc.gov/html/nycha/html/developments/manholmes.shtml

Lo and behold, it is a large housing project one block away from MrSpice's own home.

How does that add up?

MrSpice
June 19th, 2006, 01:56 PM
Where did I ever say that there's not crime in public housing projects? I was just pointing out that MrSpice is contradicting himself in telling people to avoid neighborhoods with housing projects, while saying that those same neighborhoods are the only safe places in the city at the same time. How does that make any sense?

There's a huge concentration of poor people above 96th street and lots of really crappy housing projects. How is that for accuracy? And walking above 125th in Harlem is kind of scary during the day, and is really scary at night. Once you drive along 3rd Avenue above 100th street after dark, it looks unlit and dangerous. To put it simply, people who care about safety should avoid all poorest areas of the city at night - period. That is the honest answer. And women should avoid all places at night where there are very few people. And massive poor housing projects in Harlem is not the most happening restaurant scene, if you know what I mean....

ryan
June 19th, 2006, 02:52 PM
Actually, women are most likely to be raped by someone they know. If that's why you're concerned for their safety, you'd be better off advising them to stay away from bars and parties. From Rainn (http://www.rainn.org/statistics/index.html):

http://www.rainn.org/images/statistics/perptovic3.png

Schadenfrau
June 19th, 2006, 03:02 PM
There's a huge concentration of poor people above 96th street and lots of really crappy housing projects. How is that for accuracy? And walking above 125th in Harlem is kind of scary during the day, and is really scary at night. Once you drive along 3rd Avenue above 100th street after dark, it looks unlit and dangerous. To put it simply, people who care about safety should avoid all poorest areas of the city at night - period. That is the honest answer. And women should avoid all places at night where there are very few people. And massive poor housing projects in Harlem is not the most happening restaurant scene, if you know what I mean....

But what about the massive housing projects a block from your apartment? How are you managing to miss these? They're right on the corner of 93rd and 1st. They're tall, too.

tbenson81
June 19th, 2006, 03:05 PM
You answer helps. You seem to be the only one who is being realistic.

ryan
June 19th, 2006, 03:14 PM
MrSpice is not realistic. At the very best he is exceedingly over-cautious regarding safety.

Fabrizio
June 19th, 2006, 03:15 PM
Ryan: I&#180;d say that most sexual crime (actually probably a good percentage of all violent crime) is commited among people who know one another. In your graph, it&#180;s the 31% we&#180;re concened about.

Schadenfrau: I can&#180;t speak for Mr Spice and I don&#180;t know the housing project you&#180;re talking about. I&#180;ve been to Lincoln Center towers and Peter Cooper Village and have felt as safe as anywhere else. I doubt that I&#180;d have the same feeling at a low-income project.

------------

Good design=lower crime:

http://www.news.harvard.edu/gazette/1997/12.04/MayorsLookatDes.html

krulltime
June 19th, 2006, 03:33 PM
Krulltime: I would add: housing projects that contain a high percentage of young, poor, unemployed men ( listen to the studies on the NPR interview). The Lincoln Center projects don&#180;t house that demographic....it is a middle-income project.

What are you talking about? I was not talking about the Lincoln Towers... I know what they are. I happen to live across the street from one. I am talking about the buildings called Amsterdam Houses and the Phipps Houses that are located all along 60th to 64th Street between Amsterdam and West End Avenues. Those are Low income housing projects.

Schadenfrau
June 19th, 2006, 03:36 PM
The Holmes Towers on the UES are low income projects.

Fabrizio
June 19th, 2006, 03:49 PM
Krulltime: Demographics...architecture...services.... I don&#180;t know the Phipps Houses but the Amsterdam Houses are largely seniors and it&#180;s well integrated into a wealthy community.

krulltime
June 19th, 2006, 03:52 PM
^ Really Fabrizo... how do you know that they are mostly seniors? I have been in the area tons of times and I have seen children and young adults hanging around.

Fabrizio
June 19th, 2006, 03:55 PM
As I said largely senior:

"where more than 50% of the population is 65 or older"

http://www.volunteernyc.org/org/7747108.html

krulltime
June 19th, 2006, 04:05 PM
These are the low income housing projects...


http://i.pbase.com/o4/55/435155/1/62136317.iHmrKjY0.LincolnHousingProjects.JPG

krulltime
June 19th, 2006, 04:21 PM
Yes Fabrizo there are older people in them... but there are young people aswell.

And you contradicted me earlier when I said that there are low income housing projects in the Lincoln Center neighborhood... I guess you were naive about it and needed me to clear it up for you.

Here is my post...


Lincoln Center neighborhood has some housing projects. Those that mean that tourists should avoid this neighborhood?

Here is your response...


Krulltime: I would add: housing projects that contain a high percentage of young, poor, unemployed men ( listen to the studies on the NPR interview). The Lincoln Center projects don&#180;t house that demographic....it is a middle-income project.

By the way... The Lincoln Towers are mostly Co-ops...

http://www.lincolntowers.com/images/info/history/lincoln.jpg

http://www.lincolntowers.com/info/history.php

Fabrizio
June 19th, 2006, 04:35 PM
Krulltime: spinning will get you nowhere.

About the Amesterdam Houses I said:

"the Amsterdam Houses are largely seniors"

In responce YOU said: "Really Fabrizo... how do you know that they are mostly seniors? I have been in the area tons of times and I have seen children and young adults hanging around."

I then posted a statistic about the project:

"...more than 50% of the population is 65 or older"

Therefore...yes, the demographic IS largely seniors.

Got it?

Furthermore: AS for, "you contradicted me earlier when I said that there are low income housing projects in the Lincoln Center neighborhood"

Nowhere in my posts have I contradicted anything you said.

I did assume you were speaking about the Lincoln Center Towers...which you cleared up, citing instead the Amesterdam and Phipps Houses. Note that there is a difference between being mistaken and contradicting.

krulltime
June 19th, 2006, 04:38 PM
^ LOL!

Sorry but I took it as contradicting me... You think you knew the area that well, but I guess you did not. You should learn more of the area before you make such mistakes next time.

Fabrizio
June 19th, 2006, 04:43 PM
"Sorry but I took it as contradicting me..."

Yeah well you were wrong. Nowhere in my post do I contradict you. Try a reread.

"You think you knew the area that well but I guess you did not. You should learn more of the area before you make such mistakes next time."

Bud, YOU&#180;RE the one who got it wrong about the Amesterdam Houses.

Furthermore: my "mistake" was in assuming what you meant... not in my knowlege of the neighborhood (of which, BTW I make no claims to be an expert).

Nice try. As I said: spinning will get you nowhere.

krulltime
June 19th, 2006, 04:47 PM
^ You just don't give up!

Yes you contradict me. Why don't you re-read my posts and your posts and will see that you did contradict me. Assuming that I don't know the area and its low income Housing Prokects and that I will make the stupid 'mistake' in calling the lincoln Towers low income housing projects?

Then you said the the low income housing projects are largely seniors... I tell you to come up with that info... and you did. But did I make a mistake that I have witness young people in them... Am I spinning around?

You are the one getting nowhere with me.

Fabrizio
June 19th, 2006, 04:54 PM
English 101:

Contradict: To deny the statement of.

Mistake: A misconception or misunderstanding.

Idiot: Me, for falling for this bait.

krulltime
June 19th, 2006, 04:56 PM
^ Yes that is right... you contradit me by denying initially that there were Low Income Housing Projects in the Lincoln Center Neighborhood by pointing out the Lincoln Towers were not Low Income Housing Projects. Which I was not talking about. Maybe you would have not responded at all or make such idiotic Mistakes and we will not been having these stupid argument to begin with.

Fabrizio
June 19th, 2006, 05:12 PM
Ok.... look Krulltime...let´s do it this way:

Show me where I DENY that "there were Low Income Housing Projects in the Lincoln Center Neighborhood".

Post the sentence. Thanks.

krulltime
June 19th, 2006, 05:14 PM
^ I did already and I said why you denied initially... look for it on my posts. I wont post them again.

MrSpice
June 19th, 2006, 05:14 PM
The Holmes Towers on the UES are low income projects.

But thery are surrounded but many luxury high-rises, so there are lots of people walking around in the area who are making enough not be interested in my wife's purse...

Not to mention one reason why UES, I think, is very safe: most luxury apartment buildings have multiple cameras in operation 24-7, so are bank branches and stores. Kind of difficult to do anything without being caught on camera....

Fabrizio
June 19th, 2006, 05:15 PM
Lol. Good one.

Schadenfrau
June 19th, 2006, 05:28 PM
But thery are surrounded but many luxury high-rises, so there are lots of people walking around in the area who are making enough not be interested in my wife's purse...

Not to mention one reason why UES, I think, is very safe: most luxury apartment buildings have multiple cameras in operation 24-7, so are bank branches and stores. Kind of difficult to do anything without being caught on camera....

You know who else has multiple cameras in operation 24-7? Low-income housing projects.

MrSpice, if you're going to make such weirdly bold and inaccurate statements as telling people never to walk in a neighborhood with a housing project, you have to be consistent. So, which is it: is your neighborhood safe or not? The Holmes Towers are below 96th Street, so you can't use that as a marker.

I think what you're really trying to say is that people should use common sense in sizing up the safety of a neighborhood, which is what practically everyone has been saying ALL ALONG.

ZippyTheChimp
June 19th, 2006, 06:11 PM
But thery are surrounded but many luxury high-rises, so there are lots of people walking around in the area who are making enough not be interested in my wife's purse...
Just for fun, let's compare the neighborhood where Mrs Spice carries her purse (19th precinct) with the intersection in question - Amsterdam and 138th St (26th precinct)

Precinct.....................19th................. .26th
2005
Robberies..................307.................... 264
Burglary....................478................... .111
Grand larceny...........1889....................356

:)

OmegaNYC
June 19th, 2006, 06:16 PM
Interesting find Zippy. ;)

MrSpice
June 19th, 2006, 06:29 PM
You know who else has multiple cameras in operation 24-7? Low-income housing projects.

MrSpice, if you're going to make such weirdly bold and inaccurate statements as telling people never to walk in a neighborhood with a housing project, you have to be consistent. So, which is it: is your neighborhood safe or not? The Holmes Towers are below 96th Street, so you can't use that as a marker.

I think what you're really trying to say is that people should use common sense in sizing up the safety of a neighborhood, which is what practically everyone has been saying ALL ALONG.

I would not advise my wife to walk alone next to the Homes housing projects. Especially in the eveing, I see a bunch of weird characters just hanging around there, doing nothing. I only feel safe there at 8 o 9 when some of the stores are open and lots of people are walking by. Housing projects breed crime. Harlem is just plan bad neighborhood and always has been. I really don't get your point and why you always defend well-known bad neighborhoods when people point it out.

MrSpice
June 19th, 2006, 06:33 PM
Just for fun, let's compare the neighborhood where Mrs Spice carries her purse (19th precinct) with the intersection in question - Amsterdam and 138th St (26th precinct)

Precinct.....................19th................. .26th
2005
Robberies..................307.................... 264
Burglary....................478................... .111
Grand larceny...........1889....................356

:)

You don't even need any kind of statistics to understand 138th street is a bad area. You spend there 5 min at 11pm and you know you should get the hell out of there. Certainly, not a place to be alone for a woman. I think it's obvious to any logical person. Schadenfrau clearly has a angenda because she would never choose to live there alone if she had to make that choice. There's a reason why people pay 2/3 times more to live in other areas...

Schadenfrau
June 19th, 2006, 08:34 PM
What in the world could my "angenda" be?

I do have my own apartment in the Bronx, MrSpice. Which neighborhood are you trying to tell me I would never live alone in?

lofter1
June 19th, 2006, 09:17 PM
hmmm ... maybe the area near 138th + Amsterdam should be reconsidered ...

One killed, one injured in fast-food restaurant shooting

6/18/2006, 12:37 p.m. ET
The Associated Press
LINK (http://www.silive.com/newsflash/metro/index.ssf?/base/news-18/1150649063301340.xml&storylist=simetro)

NEW YORK (AP) — A man in a fast-food restaurant shot two other patrons early Sunday morning, killing one and critically injuring the other, police said.

The incident took place around 3:45 a.m., at a chicken restaurant on Broadway near 136th street. The two males, ages 21 and 15, were ordering when another man entered the premises, said Det. Theresa Farello.

The man shot the two men. The 21-year-old was pronounced dead at the scene. The 15-year-old was in critical condition, Farello said.

No names or additional information was available. The shooter had not been found.

© 2006 SILive.com.

ryan
June 19th, 2006, 11:33 PM
What in the world could my "angenda" be?

I do have my own apartment in the Bronx, MrSpice. Which neighborhood are you trying to tell me I would never live alone in?

What?! A woman all alone? Who protects your purse?

Schadenfrau
June 20th, 2006, 01:24 AM
Don't you worry about me, Ryan. I sit safely in front of the TV, knitting baby booties and watching my soaps until a nice young volunteer man comes around with the TV dinners and funny pages of the day. One time I ventured out on my own and a strange man whizzed by on a bike, hollering something like, "Hey Mommy!" and nearly scared me half to death. I learned my lesson after that.

Fabrizio
June 20th, 2006, 03:03 AM
I don&#180;t know these projects (Holmes Towers) but the formula to many of them....towers in park like settings, lack of shops and normal street life activities does make for an uncomfortable setting. The bad urban design of many of these projects and how that can breed crime has been discussed and debated by architects, urban planners and sociologists for about the last 25 years or so.


Interesting article (NYTimes) about the Holmes Towers below.


"Three years ago, Rose Bergin watched, beaming, as her husband, James, cut the ribbon on a renovated park beside their longtime home, the Stanley Isaacs Houses. The couple had helped raise government money to install new playground equipment near Isaacs Houses and its neighbor, the John Holmes Towers, two public housing projects at East 93rd Street and First Avenue.

But since last summer, Ms. Bergin has watched the park sit mostly empty.

''We created this beautiful park, but it's sad because my neighbors are too scared to go out there, day or night,'' said Ms. Bergin, who is now a widow. ''Even I don't go out there anymore.''

In June, a 62-year-old woman was stabbed to death in her Isaacs Houses apartment. No one was arrested. The following month, a man who lived in Isaacs Houses threw himself from a 19th-floor window. The man survived, but the incidents sparked fears among residents about the overall safety of the two complexes, the only public housing on the Upper East Side.

The anomaly of a troubled project in this wealthy neighborhood has also frustrated Councilwoman Eva S. Moskowitz, who set aside $75,000 in city money two years ago to pay for two security cameras for the complex. But the New York City Housing Authority, which oversees public housing, never spent the money and it was recently revoked as part of city budget cuts.

When it comes to the safety of public housing residents, Ms. Moskowitz said she sees a double standard at work."

''A person is a person whether they live on Fifth Avenue or in a project,'' she said. ''There shouldn't be such a disconnect in the safety and services here.''

''The neighbors' fears are understandable,'' Captain Clary said, ''but there's a quantum level of difference between the crime at Isaacs and Holmes and the crime at the projects farther uptown.''

Such reassurances are small comfort for Ms. Bergin, who plans to stay indoors for now.

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9405EFDD1631F933A25752C1A9649C8B 63

Ninjahedge
June 20th, 2006, 08:43 AM
What in the world could my "angenda" be?

http://www.geocities.com/EnchantedForest/1130/freezegun.jpg

To try and take over the world?

MrSpice
June 20th, 2006, 10:02 AM
What in the world could my "angenda" be?

I do have my own apartment in the Bronx, MrSpice. Which neighborhood are you trying to tell me I would never live alone in?

Bronx is huge. Where is the Bronx? I have been in the Bronx many times. Some areas are scary during the day (South Bronx), while in other one can spend the whole night without feeling any anxiety (Riverdale, for example).

You should feel free to walk alone anywhere you like. But the question was for other people - where would I feel safe for my wife to walk around after dark. If you like hanging around in Harlem at night and risk your life, it's up to you. But let's try to keep other safe.

Fabrizio posted a good story that proves once again - housing projects should be avoided, especially at night.

ZippyTheChimp
June 20th, 2006, 01:14 PM
^
This is what you said.


That is not a safe neighborhood. Everything above 125th street on West Side is Harlem is generally not safe, especially after dark.

Housing projects can be unsafe due to their physical design, the same way any park can be unsafe.

No matter how you rationalize it, the entire neighborhood has less crime than yours.

Schadenfrau
June 20th, 2006, 01:35 PM
MrSpice, that took place a block from your home. How can you talk about avoiding the place?

And I've told you a million times: I live in the South Bronx.

MrSpice
June 20th, 2006, 03:40 PM
MrSpice, that took place a block from your home. How can you talk about avoiding the place?

And I've told you a million times: I live in the South Bronx.

Yes, just a few blocks away at night is a totally different feeling, especially at night Walk north towards 98th street, and it's getting bad quickly.

I don't know what you're doing in South Bronx and why you live there. It's possible that there are "normal" pockets in that area that are livable. I would never want my wife wondering alone in South Bronx. That was the original question.

Schadenfrau
June 20th, 2006, 04:06 PM
No one asked a damn thing about your wife, nor any wife at all.

OmegaNYC
June 20th, 2006, 09:44 PM
No one asked a damn thing about your wife, nor any wife at all.
lmao. Well the way I see it this. It is up to the person to decide what it "bad" or "good" about a neighborhood. If you feel unsafe in a certain area. Then don't go, or leave. That's the way I see it. :p

tbenson81
June 20th, 2006, 10:36 PM
He really is the only one here with any common sense here! Everyone else just looks like a fool, whipping up meaningless crime stats and producing 1 in a million crime scenarios. Spice seems to have enough street smarts to know which areas to avoid and is the only one who has really contrubuted anything of meaning to this thread.

ryan
June 20th, 2006, 10:44 PM
tbenson81, where do you live?

Avoiding Harlem in it's entirety hardly brings "street smarts" to my mind. Why not just avoid New York City altogether? That's the safest course. Can't argue with that.

tbenson81
June 20th, 2006, 10:47 PM
There is no reason to avoid NYC in its entirety. There seems like there are many areas where upstanding, quality indiviudals such as MrSpice reside. Those of you defending Harlem and 138th and Amsterdam arents making yourselves look too good. Tony

ZippyTheChimp
June 20th, 2006, 10:49 PM
Someone who judges an opinion to be worthwhile because it agrees with his own assessment based on one scene from a movie shot 11 years ago - is calling us fools.

Fool indeed.

tbenson81
June 20th, 2006, 10:53 PM
No - it takes common sense and just one quick look at the area to know its not somewhere I would like to be visiting anytime soon. That intersection was just a test to see who on this board possesses safety parallels similar to my own and MrSpice is the only one who passed. Everyone else failed miserably. But to each his own - if you are cool with that neighborhood, thats fine. Maybe I just have higher expectations and neighborhood standards than most. I wouldnt even want to be in a cab driving throguh that neigborhood, much the less on foot. Tony

ZippyTheChimp
June 20th, 2006, 10:58 PM
And how did you know enough about the intersection to set up the test?

tbenson81
June 20th, 2006, 11:01 PM
I saw it in Die Hard 3 and last time I was in New York, myself and a couple of friends decided to check out where it was. Thought it would be cool. This was back in 2003. We took a cab to the corner and even the cab driver said &quot;Are you guys crazy&quot; when we said we wanted out there. This was at 1:00 in the afternoon. Needless to say, better judgement set in and we headed back to the much &quot;safer&quot; areas of town. Tony Anyways - catch up with you guys later - have to see the Heat close this one out!

ZippyTheChimp
June 20th, 2006, 11:04 PM
Since you have already lied once, there is no reason to believe you were ever in NYC.

And if you were, it is even sadder that your life is so uneventful, that you have to troll around the internet for exitement.

Is your keyboard sticky now. Goodbye.

tbenson81
June 20th, 2006, 11:07 PM
You dont even make sense Zippy. When have I lied? Me posting on this board makes my life uneventful - I dont understand how that makes sense. You sound like a 12 year old kid with your sticky keyboard comment. Hell you probably are.

ZippyTheChimp
June 20th, 2006, 11:12 PM
You asked a question about an area you were already familiar with. That is a lie.

However, in my opinion, your visit to NYC is a lie.

Either way, you lied.

Your last comment convinces me of your age and intent on this forum.

ZippyTheChimp
June 20th, 2006, 11:12 PM
Trolls don't get the last word.