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zupermaus
June 20th, 2006, 12:22 PM
Thanx to imageshack.us

Hi, this thread was originally posted on skyscrapercity during the heatwave of 2003:

This is the London not so apparent from the usual picture postcards and surprisingly rarely photographed- the streetlife, the people, the human stories away from the visitor beaten paths, the real city away from the usual tourist wonders and blunders. Here are a handful of curio places not usually on the itinerary; my pics from a few random trips last July:
- so no Canary Wharf/ City skyscraper pics, no palaces or cathedrals, horseguards or red phoneboxes, but enjoy anyway, hope you like them
summer in the city:
everywhere you look you catch those 'London moments':
http://img24.exs.cx/img24/9923/highgaterestaurantintimate2004_0905_180900.jpg

http://img120.exs.cx/img120/9374/offspring200408102297qg.jpg
http://img203.exs.cx/img203/2931/offspringclearpic5pu.jpg

an alleyway kiss (didn't notice them till after)
http://img201.exs.cx/img201/4685/20040810074churchkiss0rb.jpg

http://img209.exs.cx/img209/6303/bugbug200408102888fd.jpg

http://img222.exs.cx/img222/5007/20040810005piccadonispensive6r.jpg

http://img203.exs.cx/img203/9275/20040810170paternostercolumn7d.jpg
weirdly empty street
http://img131.exs.cx/img131/2142/paternosterme3wr.jpg

symmetry
http://img203.exs.cx/img203/7586/20040810197symmetry5vg.jpg

more people who need to get a room:
http://img201.exs.cx/img201/4986/20040810043nikekiss6pu.jpg

zupermaus
June 20th, 2006, 12:23 PM
first off, Soho, the sex district also doubling as the gay/media/restaurant district with Chinatown on the side, bars, restaurants, cafes, theatres and clubs - over a million people pass through this district each night:
http://img127.exs.cx/img127/4697/bugbug22004_0810289.jpg

http://img86.exs.cx/img86/2593/20040810226comptoncrowd4mm.jpg

http://img110.exs.cx/img110/6773/20040810276comptonblur7hi.jpg

http://img212.exs.cx/img212/8535/tonysoho200408100969qn.jpg

http://img127.exs.cx/img127/3002/soho2004_0810081.jpg

http://img209.exs.cx/img209/1808/20040810262comptonawareunderwe.jpg

http://img40.exs.cx/img40/2020/nerocoke200408100019ki.jpg

I caught these Brazilian-esque revellers going to a bar opening:
http://img55.exs.cx/img55/9247/20040915213232carnivalhood0lj.jpg

http://img114.exs.cx/img114/2416/sohocarnivalewhitewalls6av.jpg

zupermaus
June 20th, 2006, 12:24 PM
http://img206.exs.cx/img206/7879/capitalcafenight5jt.jpg

Chinatown, the nearest London gets to a single community 'ghetto' though there are over 350 languages spoken and of the 85 communities 1/3 are of non white ethnicities, another 1/3 foreign born. Even then Chinatown's actually only a few streets and 180,000 other Chinese are spread out through the capital like the other minorities:
http://img215.exs.cx/img215/2566/chinabigstroller2gx.jpg

http://img51.exs.cx/img51/8933/chinawave8by.jpg

http://img159.exs.cx/img159/5273/20040915200616kingscrosschines.jpg

floating fish
http://img200.exs.cx/img200/3200/20040905191119chinacrowd8ht.jpg

check out the tattoo:
http://img81.exs.cx/img81/135/chinatownvendor200409051917146.jpg

http://img205.exs.cx/img205/5549/20040905184427chinamesideview0.jpg

http://img202.exs.cx/img202/9079/20040905184410chinagateadoni2y.jpg

http://img202.exs.cx/img202/9967/20040905191513chinatemple5ok.jpg

zupermaus
June 20th, 2006, 12:25 PM
my truly fave part of london, the sex district, just like any other part of the city, just the backdrop's different:
http://img212.exs.cx/img212/2597/20040810098sohoalley1ry.jpg

http://img9.exs.cx/img9/6643/adonisseated200408102618de.jpg

http://img219.exs.cx/img219/1149/20040810094colt6lw.jpg

spot the pimp
http://img221.exs.cx/img221/8468/sohooriginalbkshop200408102177.jpg

http://img71.exs.cx/img71/9426/bargainbooks200408102532gr.jpg

http://img226.exs.cx/img226/5770/20040810224comptonstart6gf.jpg

with the famous record stores on every corner:
http://img233.exs.cx/img233/2302/20040810093dive2fi.jpg

http://img233.exs.cx/img233/2051/soho20040810077foot8fy.jpg

http://img221.exs.cx/img221/2033/20040810090sohoflowermarket8oy.jpg

and one of 350 streetmarkets:
http://img222.exs.cx/img222/3280/soho20040810087market3wi.jpg

zupermaus
June 20th, 2006, 12:26 PM
more area cafe culture and pub crawls,
getting an outside seat in this cafe is golddust to watch the worlds most interesting streetlife pass you by on a Friday evening, and trying to distinguish the media whores from the whores, rich from poor, male from female:
http://img75.exs.cx/img75/4129/neroblur2004_0810306.jpg

life on the main drag:
http://img108.exs.cx/img108/5031/comptons200408102282qb.jpg

spot the couple
http://img180.exs.cx/img180/6105/20040810265nerolookers6od.jpg

http://img203.exs.cx/img203/9420/20040810254pulcinellanotice7vq.jpg

http://img233.exs.cx/img233/2879/stargarterpub0bd.jpg

West End shopping, a retail wonderland or inhuman nightmare depending on your wallet:
http://img219.exs.cx/img219/5300/20040810151piccadillybus4sm.jpg

BBC Braodcasting House rebuild and All Souls
http://img178.exs.cx/img178/1816/oxford200408100443ku.jpg


Piccadilly Circus, once the neon and advertising covered every inch of the facades from the Nineteenth Century till the Sixties - from which the council gradually took down to reveal these beautiful buildings:
http://img210.exs.cx/img210/6117/20040810135erosexpanse3ny.jpg

usual bunch of naked golden women divers
http://img114.exs.cx/img114/42/20040810153goldendivers4vv.jpg

although one last facade remains, by er, 'tradition':
http://img11.exs.cx/img11/736/picccokesign6kd.jpg

zupermaus
June 20th, 2006, 12:27 PM
(and by night)
http://img146.exs.cx/img146/8219/towerrecordsnight0hv.jpg

more shop till you drop, an Oxford St palace to consumerism
http://img61.exs.cx/img61/3566/20040810060oxfordpalace8wo.jpg

liberty's
http://img171.exs.cx/img171/1989/libertys2ov.jpg

Centrepoint Tower, demarcation of the tacky end of Oxford St
http://img22.exs.cx/img22/2518/20040810069centrepoint0rc.jpg

http://img177.exs.cx/img177/3108/oxford200408100413qy.jpg

Late workers heading home and depopulating The City (financial district)- density 400,000 per sq mile by day, 1400 by night and weekend:
http://img117.exs.cx/img117/2275/fleet200408102158sg.jpg

http://img11.exs.cx/img11/6209/cityworkersbuildings9wl.jpg

before night falls
http://img193.exs.cx/img193/9352/citysilhouettedwoman6ce.jpg

http://img138.exs.cx/img138/8993/20040819002underground8sh.jpg

tat-land, Leicester Sq:
http://img134.exs.cx/img134/7015/leicestershine200408101682xl.jpg

zupermaus
June 20th, 2006, 12:28 PM
http://img148.exs.cx/img148/4725/picchorses5vt.jpg

Millennium Bridge - three groups of people chance meeting on the same spot
http://img142.exs.cx/img142/3884/millbridge200408101813ix.jpg

Louise Bourgeouise:
http://img228.exs.cx/img228/2003/tatespider200408190221af.jpg

http://img209.exs.cx/img209/4324/tateroom200408190306vp.jpg

Surreal but cute
http://img118.exs.cx/img118/9656/tatelight8gj.jpg
these people are actually in a light installation in a huge coccoon- the walls change colour and allow you to practice your snow-blindness in shades of mauve, pink, white, green etc.

http://img222.exs.cx/img222/8080/20040819050millenniumreflectio.jpg

welcome to the Barbican, in The City, a total sixties timewarp of deeply unpopular luxury brutalism:
the first stairwell:
http://img210.exs.cx/img210/7229/barbicanstairwell4ly.jpg

leading up:
http://img99.exs.cx/img99/8586/barbicanstairwoman5pm.jpg

and into the open, brown concrete, walkways, laundrettes and rubber piping suppliers in all their glory (I kid you not):
http://img217.exs.cx/img217/2429/barbicantunnelview7fu.jpg

a flat here still sells for a £1million ($2 million/ 1.5 million Euros)
http://img207.exs.cx/img207/6253/barbdarkview2wz.jpg

zupermaus
June 20th, 2006, 12:29 PM
a few abstracts:
http://img217.exs.cx/img217/5023/20040915150600barbabstract6qt.jpg

http://img203.exs.cx/img203/5057/barbtowerreflected9qg.jpg

postmodernism ventured outside
http://img217.exs.cx/img217/513/barbwindowrrogers5gs.jpg

and the bridge between the Barbican and the outside world:
http://img217.exs.cx/img217/8008/barbbridgewomen7mq.jpg

Harringey, a community recently in the news for violence between Turkish, Kurdish and Greek organised gangs:
one of the main streets, full of mediterranean delis and caffs:
http://img184.exs.cx/img184/5089/haringeyhighst1fn.jpg
the sidestreets to the main blew me away, each marching uphill:
http://img77.exs.cx/img77/1931/haringeysilhouette7ng.jpg
http://img138.exs.cx/img138/1824/20040915180616lineofcars6yt.jpg
peace and quiet contrary to the scaremongering:
http://img63.exs.cx/img63/7386/20040915175222treelightpark3jk.jpg

zupermaus
June 20th, 2006, 12:30 PM
more 'village' london, follow the hat through Hampstead:
http://img219.exs.cx/img219/9945/20040905153840highgateadonibal.jpg

http://img227.exs.cx/img227/582/20040905153514highgatevanparki.jpg

http://img222.exs.cx/img222/1828/20040905180722highgateoverview.jpg

breakfast with a view
http://img132.exs.cx/img132/5746/highgatecorner8cq.jpg

http://img27.exs.cx/img27/8913/20040905153814uphillst1cy.jpg

http://img202.exs.cx/img202/9097/20040905154008highgatebikeshop.jpg

http://img156.exs.cx/img156/5568/20040905180815highgatecinema5h.jpg

http://img27.exs.cx/img27/938/20040905154150highgateadonigre.jpg

http://img19.exs.cx/img19/8194/20040905154339highgatebricksta.jpg

posh suburb
http://img215.exs.cx/img215/1411/20040905154454highgateposhsubu.jpg

zupermaus
June 20th, 2006, 12:31 PM
with posh trappings:
http://img114.exs.cx/img114/1024/highgaterolls1jr.jpg

the heath
http://img232.exs.cx/img232/5397/20040905155234highgatepath5em.jpg

deeper into the woods
http://img143.exs.cx/img143/7337/20040905155747hampsteadwood1et.jpg

and discovering a ruined folly
http://img114.exs.cx/img114/9436/highgatevineryoverview2me.jpg
http://img204.exs.cx/img204/1193/20040905161042hampsteadvines1g.jpg

200 year old vines
http://img222.exs.cx/img222/8518/20040905161236vinery0dq.jpg

lookout over a secret garden - met a long lost schoolmate down there just after this photo was taken (and one of the people sunning themselves)
http://img224.exs.cx/img224/2145/20040905161150hampsteadviewpic.jpg

journey's end:
http://img233.exs.cx/img233/6549/20040905161326adoniheathlookou.jpg

ablarc
June 22nd, 2006, 07:51 AM
London is so cool!

Thanks for the tour.

Sorry abou the red X's.

Gregory Tenenbaum
June 22nd, 2006, 08:09 AM
Nice photos

Interesting statistics about the 400,000 people per square mile by day, 1,500 by night.

I always feel in London that its a lonely city at night.

Unlike NYC and a lot of European cities.

zupermaus
June 22nd, 2006, 01:50 PM
thats funny, London is VERY alive at night, but just in my experience. Those stats were for 'The City', a specific district of London, not the city overall if you know what I mean. Anyway, where did you spend your time? The suburbs and shopping districts are quiet indeed, as is The City (the financial district I was referring too) as, well, no one lives there. You should come down, id love to show someone a real night on the toon.

Some places are more crowded than during the day, Soho alone has over a million people passing through it in a night and the West End overall gets very crowded at 6pm (after works drinks), 8pm (people going to the pubs), midnight (pub closing time), 2am (bar closing time), and 4am (first club closing). Its a nightmare for the police, with 500,000 clubbers on any given night, and literally millions of drunks that make the streets into one big urinal.
London gets trumpeted as having the world's best nightlife at the moment, though Madrid with 40,000 bars and where people are still preening in front of the mirror by the time Londoners are already drunk and looking for night buses, might have something to say about that. But the London 'scene' at the mo is shit hot, its all about the music though, not the accompanying crowds - live music, theatre, comedy and clubbing is very, very good - i just wish the people would vomit less and not punch each other so much ;).

But yeah, as hinted at, London has little in the way of life-as-life-is-lived after dark, even if it is crowded. It calls itself a 24hr city but one of Londoners bitches is that the only thing you can do after 10pm is eat expensively, drink and snort drugs. The shops, cafes, libraries etc are all shut unlike NYC, with a few exceptions here and there admittedly. But hell even the tube shuts down at midnight and youve got to manhandle your way onto a complicated, overcrowded and sometimes dangerous nightbus network, or run the even riskier gauntlet of minicabs.

Gregory Tenenbaum
June 23rd, 2006, 02:34 AM
i just wish the people would vomit less and not punch each other so much ;).

But yeah, as hinted at, London has little in the way of life-as-life-is-lived after dark, even if it is crowded. It calls itself a 24hr city but one of Londoners bitches is that the only thing you can do after 10pm is eat expensively, drink and snort drugs. The shops, cafes, libraries etc are all shut unlike NYC, with a few exceptions here and there admittedly. But hell even the tube shuts down at midnight and youve got to manhandle your way onto a complicated, overcrowded and sometimes dangerous nightbus network, or run the even riskier gauntlet of minicabs.

I agree - compared to a lot of cities I feel as if London is dangerous at night - the streets aren't full of people like some other cities. You can't walk everywhere safely, and no night trams like you get in Europe.

nick-taylor
June 23rd, 2006, 05:53 AM
I agree - compared to a lot of cities I feel as if London is dangerous at night - the streets aren't full of people like some other cities. You can't walk everywhere safely, and no night trams like you get in Europe.Coming from someone residing in New York which not only has a far larger history of violence, but is still significantly more violent than London (nearly as many murders committed in New York as in all of the UK!), I find that pretty funny! I think you'll also find that murder rates and the likes although not as high as that of American cities, tend to be higher than London (per head).

Also hardly any European cities operate night trams or heavy rai services (other than the odd late-night service), most cities resort to night bus services (London so happens to have the largest night bus network in the world). The main reason for this is not lack of express lines (London actually has more extensive express line coverage than New York has), but because closing the network in hours when people are less likely to use it is far more beneficial for repairs, upgrades and modernisation programmes.

The result for not running 24/7, is that the network is far cleaner, trains operate faster, there are less accidents and delays, stations are more accessible and contain modern amenities yet historical aspects have been restored. Sometimes you have to sacrafice something to get the better end result.

Gregory Tenenbaum
June 25th, 2006, 04:43 AM
Coming from someone residing in New York which not only has a far larger history of violence, but is still significantly more violent than London (nearly as many murders committed in New York as in all of the UK!), I find that pretty funny! I think you'll also find that murder rates and the likes although not as high as that of American cities, tend to be higher than London (per head).

Also hardly any European cities operate night trams or heavy rai services (other than the odd late-night service), most cities resort to night bus services (London so happens to have the largest night bus network in the world). The main reason for this is not lack of express lines (London actually has more extensive express line coverage than New York has), but because closing the network in hours when people are less likely to use it is far more beneficial for repairs, upgrades and modernisation programmes.

The result for not running 24/7, is that the network is far cleaner, trains operate faster, there are less accidents and delays, stations are more accessible and contain modern amenities yet historical aspects have been restored. Sometimes you have to sacrafice something to get the better end result.

Nick, this is not a Kick London on the Ground When It's Down post.

Relax.

ablarc
August 27th, 2006, 11:31 AM
Some places are more crowded than during the day, Soho alone has over a million people passing through it in a night and the West End overall gets very crowded at 6pm (after works drinks), 8pm (people going to the pubs), midnight (pub closing time), 2am (bar closing time), and 4am (first club closing). Its a nightmare for the police, with 500,000 clubbers on any given night, and literally millions of drunks that make the streets into one big urinal.

...live music, theatre, comedy and clubbing is very, very good - i just wish the people would vomit less and not punch each other so much ;).

But yeah, as hinted at, London has little in the way of life-as-life-is-lived after dark, even if it is crowded. It calls itself a 24hr city but one of Londoners bitches is that the only thing you can do after 10pm is eat expensively, drink and snort drugs. The shops, cafes, libraries etc are all shut unlike NYC, with a few exceptions here and there admittedly. But hell even the tube shuts down at midnight...
That's how I found it too. It's those absurd closing hours. You'd think Red Ken would be keen to do something about it, but things never seem to change. Why is that?

Gregory Tenenbaum
August 27th, 2006, 01:07 PM
People have been leaving London and the UK for centuries (to the New World, Australia, Canada, NZ) for this very reason (and similar reasons) - that is not a secret.

What I do find amazing however is that 2 centuries later English society remains in the grip of these odd social conventions (and others).

lorcar
December 19th, 2006, 03:45 AM
as italian, i have been in london several time, living there for at most 1,5 month in a row. Now i have been living in NYC since last august. I have always had great time in London, and have very good memories. If you see London with the sun, you will love it.
But i think NYC is much much much better.

It's cleaner. I would say, this is not a subjective point: Americans are cleaner than Brits. Plz, be clear i don't want to start a thread with insults or stereotypes, hope i am not offending anybody. I have also lived in Brussels, and belgian are a bit less dirty than brits, but still dirty.

The weather. In NYC you always see the light and the sky. This makes the huge difference, it's not the temperature nor rain/snow. London, like brussels, has a worst weather, maybe london is also better than brussels.

The people habit. It seems that in UK/Ireland people are not able to do anything else than drinking. More: nothing else than getting drunk. But this is common in northern european countries, while is not in those country where - in spite of the fact that the people drink like crazy - the atmosphere remains positive. I think Greece, i think Italy, I think at France, i think (but maybe i am wrong) at Spain. You don't feel surrounded by screaming drunks peeing around. And you don't see the disgusting (sorry again, it's my conservative viewpoint) show of women drunk in the street that you can experience only in london/dublin.

The food. The average NYC restaurant is better i would say than the average european one. Explain better. Although in america you don't have the least idea how we eat and what we eat and what it means having a tasting meal everyday twice a day (at home, not only when you go to the restaurant - where btw you cover all the food with ketchup and other sauces and several toppings) in europe it is easier to finish in a fake restaurant, where they just steal your money. In NYC i think the average place has eatable food, even more than italy, where you have to know where to go. In london the situation is better, and the restaurants are way more expensive than NY.

The people are great. There was already a post about the friendliness of newyorkers and how easy is to get in touch with people here. In this perspective, NY reminds me Naples, the only place in italy where probably people start to talk to you. Try Milan. Try Paris, London. NY is fantastic. The people are much more open than anywhere else i have been.

This also brings to the point that it is easier to meet girls in NY. Try Milan again. I heard my american friends (all cute guys) or also other foreigners complaining how tough and useless has been in this perspective their trip to Italy or Spain. In London is a bit different, is obviously a gret cosmopolitan city, and people are used to others. But talking about girls, i think the alcool plays a greater role in London than NY, where is a natural attitude.

NY is cheaper.

As you may understan at the moment i love NY. If i were offered to move to london or any other middle city obviously i would pick up London. But if i could choose the european capital to live in, Paris Berlin Marid Barcelona would come before London.
At the moment i prefer NY. Have friends working in finance in london, who have been here for several months, and i asked them how could they be back there after having been here. They all told me that london has so many positive aspects i ignore, and i have no doubt this is the case.
Maybe in some other months i will hate NY, not everything here is easy. But i remember i have never excited anywhere as i am here.
ciaociao

ablarc
December 19th, 2006, 07:42 AM
^ Interesting observations, lorcar. Thanks.

Fabrizio
December 19th, 2006, 09:35 AM
"it seems that in UK/Ireland people are not able to do anything else than drinking. More: nothing else than getting drunk."

I agree. And it is why I dislike England (although I have great English friends). I just dispise being surrounded by drunken people.

ALSO: In England and the US there is a"macho" culture that is dreary... a bore... and especially bad in England... combined with alchohol its a disaster. Italian men are more "feminine" in comparison: charm, clothing, "la bella figura".

The food part: I understand what you are saying, but with Italy, I think the subject is a bit more complicated. Because I "know where to go" Ill take Italy any day.... and I think the value is greater. But Italy is ONLY good if you really appreciate and understand wine, cheese, good oil, cured meats. Most tourists dont, and so they can have a very rough time and will often get second best. Italy is great if you are a regular customer in a restaurant... something obviously impossible for a tourist. In NYC everyone is treated well.

NYC wins on good cheap ethnic food.


-----

ablarc
December 20th, 2006, 07:48 PM
"it seems that in UK/Ireland people are not able to do anything else than drinking. More: nothing else than getting drunk."
Has there been any noticeable change since pub hours were liberalized?


Because I "know where to go" Ill take Italy any day.... and I think the value is greater. But Italy is ONLY good if you really appreciate and understand wine, cheese, good oil, cured meats.
Best restaurant meal of my life was in a small, cheap, working class joint near the station in Rome. Spaghetti with mussels: perfectly prepared, fresh and dazzlingly simple. The only other ingredients were butter, garlic and parsley. Hold the parmesan. Unforgettable.


Most tourists dont, and so they can have a very rough time and will often get second best.
Accustomed to goopy Italian-American dishes laden with red sauce and stretchy cheese, some Americans think they're shortchanged when presented with a svelte Italian pasta dish. The modest dab of red sauce is just there to keep the pasta from getting boring. What you're really after is the taste of wheat.

Fabrizio
December 21st, 2006, 04:09 AM
"What you're really after is the taste of wheat."

I'm impressed. (seems even few big-time food writers understand that).

nick-taylor
December 21st, 2006, 05:22 PM
"it seems that in UK/Ireland people are not able to do anything else than drinking. More: nothing else than getting drunk."

I agree. And it is why I dislike England (although I have great English friends). I just dispise being surrounded by drunken people.

ALSO: In England and the US there is a"macho" culture that is dreary... a bore... and especially bad in England... combined with alchohol its a disaster. Italian men are more "feminine" in comparison: charm, clothing, "la bella figura".

The food part: I understand what you are saying, but with Italy, I think the subject is a bit more complicated. Because I "know where to go" Ill take Italy any day.... and I think the value is greater. But Italy is ONLY good if you really appreciate and understand wine, cheese, good oil, cured meats. Most tourists dont, and so they can have a very rough time and will often get second best. Italy is great if you are a regular customer in a restaurant... something obviously impossible for a tourist. In NYC everyone is treated well.

NYC wins on good cheap ethnic food.


-----So I guess I should avoid Italians for all being connected to the Mafioso or Americans for being obese morons?

Fact is, while there are more idiots who do drink and drunk, they are still a minority and to generalise in such a way is highly ignorant. I've been out tons of times without coming across a drunk and when I have its been the lone loser.

And when I do see it, it is bad, but while binge drinking in the UK has peaked, on the continent it is rapidly increasing.

Fabrizio
December 21st, 2006, 06:48 PM
Nick:

First of all the original quote: "it seems that in UK/Ireland people are not able to do anything else than drinking. More: nothing else than getting drunk." was posted by another poster.

And I agree, I find the same thing. Hey, thats 2 of us in agreement here. Note also that Ablarc responded to that post by saying: "Interesting observations, lorcar. Thanks." So perhaps that makes 3 of us.

If in YOUR first-hand experience you should find "Italians .... all being connected to the Mafioso or Americans ........ obese morons" and would prefer to avoid them, thats fine with me.

Some "highly ignorant" generalizations from Wikipedia.... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binge_drinking

"The culture of drinking in the UK is markedly different from that of most other European nations (although it is very similar to that of the Republic of Ireland). In mainland Europe, alcohol tends to be consumed more slowly over the course of an evening, often accompanied by a restaurant meal. In the UK, by contrast, alcohol is generally consumed rapidly, leading much more readily to drunkenness. While being drunk in mainland Europe is widely viewed as being socially unacceptable, in the UK the reverse is true in many social circles. Particularly amongst young adults, there is often a certain degree of social pressure to get drunk during a night out. "

The French soccer player David Ginola commented:
"I was amazed when I came to this country at the way the women here behave,' he said. From London to Newcastle to Leeds to Manchester I saw women vomiting in the streets. It is disgusting the way they behave. In France the women will only drink a little bit. In this country the women try and keep up with the men, drink for drink. The women behave like men in sex as well as drink. In France they are much more sophisticated and modest. That is why I will not bring my children up here. I don't want my daughter to be an Englishwoman."

Gwyneth Paltrow says she is disgusted by the binge drinking culture among young British women.
"I really don't like drunk women. I think it's such a bad look. I think it's very inappropriate. "I think, 'Ooh, you're really degrading yourself to be this pissed out in public.'"

Binge drinking in the UK is commonly linked to football hooliganism.[6]

---------

More:

Some "highly ignorant" generalizations from Bloomberg:

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=10000102&sid=aaZZT4db_kvI&refer=uk

Some "highly ignorant" generalizations from the BBC:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/bbcthree/tv/binge_britain/index.shtml

-----

http://www.listener.co.nz/issue/3375/features/3165/the_unbearable_lightness_of_being_english.html

ZippyTheChimp
December 21st, 2006, 08:42 PM
Love the Nick-retorts.

Marksix
December 22nd, 2006, 06:17 AM
"

The food part: I understand what you are saying, but with Italy, I think the subject is a bit more complicated. Because I "know where to go" Ill take Italy any day.... and I think the value is greater. But Italy is ONLY good if you really appreciate and understand wine, cheese, good oil, cured meats. Most tourists dont, and so they can have a very rough time and will often get second best. Italy is great if you are a regular customer in a restaurant... something obviously impossible for a tourist. In NYC everyone is treated well.

NYC wins on good cheap ethnic food.


-----

what do you think of the Slow Food movement Fab? Has anyone in Italy actually heard of it or is it just a media thing?

I agree with you on the women thing - always said that Italian women are what French women "think" they are - style wise at least. English girls are of course, the best of all (the boss is in the room and she might read this...:) )



"Slow Food is a non-profit, eco-gastronomic member-supported organization that was founded in 1989 to counteract fast food and fast life, the disappearance of local food traditions and people’s dwindling interest in the food they eat, where it comes from, how it tastes and how our food choices affect the rest of the world."

Fabrizio
December 22nd, 2006, 07:21 AM
"I agree with you on the women thing - always said that Italian women are what French women "think" they are - style wise at least. English girls are of course, the best of all (the boss is in the room and she might read this..."

I have no post in this thread about Italian women (or any women for that matter)... so I really do not know what you are refering to.

If you really want to know: as far as the English women that I personally know: they are loyal, stylish, wise and witty. Its impossible to generalize in one-to.one relationships but I do like Italian, English and middle eastern women that I know (living in the west). Iranian women always seem to be amazing.

About SlowFood it is a very real and respected organization in Italy.

nick-taylor
December 22nd, 2006, 07:53 PM
Nick:

First of all the original quote: "it seems that in UK/Ireland people are not able to do anything else than drinking. More: nothing else than getting drunk." was posted by another poster.

And I agree, I find the same thing. Hey, thats 2 of us in agreement here. Note also that Ablarc responded to that post by saying: "Interesting observations, lorcar. Thanks." So perhaps that makes 3 of us.

If in YOUR first-hand experience you should find "Italians .... all being connected to the Mafioso or Americans ........ obese morons" and would prefer to avoid them, thats fine with me.

Some "highly ignorant" generalizations from Wikipedia.... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binge_drinking

"The culture of drinking in the UK is markedly different from that of most other European nations (although it is very similar to that of the Republic of Ireland). In mainland Europe, alcohol tends to be consumed more slowly over the course of an evening, often accompanied by a restaurant meal. In the UK, by contrast, alcohol is generally consumed rapidly, leading much more readily to drunkenness. While being drunk in mainland Europe is widely viewed as being socially unacceptable, in the UK the reverse is true in many social circles. Particularly amongst young adults, there is often a certain degree of social pressure to get drunk during a night out. "

The French soccer player David Ginola commented:
"I was amazed when I came to this country at the way the women here behave,' he said. From London to Newcastle to Leeds to Manchester I saw women vomiting in the streets. It is disgusting the way they behave. In France the women will only drink a little bit. In this country the women try and keep up with the men, drink for drink. The women behave like men in sex as well as drink. In France they are much more sophisticated and modest. That is why I will not bring my children up here. I don't want my daughter to be an Englishwoman."

Gwyneth Paltrow says she is disgusted by the binge drinking culture among young British women.
"I really don't like drunk women. I think it's such a bad look. I think it's very inappropriate. "I think, 'Ooh, you're really degrading yourself to be this pissed out in public.'"

Binge drinking in the UK is commonly linked to football hooliganism.[6]

---------

More:

Some "highly ignorant" generalizations from Bloomberg:

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=10000102&sid=aaZZT4db_kvI&refer=uk

Some "highly ignorant" generalizations from the BBC:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/bbcthree/tv/binge_britain/index.shtml

-----

http://www.listener.co.nz/issue/3375/features/3165/the_unbearable_lightness_of_being_english.html
My point has nothing to do with the amount a minority drink, but how you can dislike an entire country because of that minority. Hence my comparison with criminal organisations in Italy and lax health standards in the US - both are idiotic, just as stating that you can dislike a nation for a minority. Never mind that that you highlight England, when it is Scotland that has the obscene drink levels within the UK.

Yet the entire situation in the UK can be summed up with the rise of alcopops, and considering the continent is just starting to get acquainted to this group of drinks it won't be long till Italy or where ever else is in the same hole.

I won't bother with the articles as you haven't provided the methodology of sampling and is based solely on a very small group of participants across a vast area, ie sampling 7,000 people across several hundred million people is unlikely to provide realistic and engaging results. The actual participants could also be warped by various media factors as a negative media is likely to highlight problems rather than look for positives. The other is a comical observation, while the later goes over old ground and an issue you seem incapable of accepting:
- More foreign students are coming to the UK to study (and then leaving once they have completed their studies)
- More elderly people are leaving to have their own Dordogne, Tuscany or the Costa del Sol
- More students opting for gap years which occur between secondary and tertiary education

As an Italian you should be worried, because rich north Europeans are out-pricing locals from traditional localities for prime estates (1 out of 3 residents in the Dordogne are now British OAPs), recent immigrants are more capable, while young and aspiring individuals are finding it hard to make it due to a repressive socio-economic structure and are flocking to the likes of London and other northern commercial centres...all at the expense of the southerners such as yourself who remain in what are gradually becoming retirement enclaves. :D

The irony is, your ignorance of Britain (and specifically England) is just as bad as those who are ignorant about alcohol.

ablarc
December 22nd, 2006, 08:50 PM
Yet the entire situation in the UK can be summed up with the rise of alcopops, and considering the continent is just starting to get acquainted to this group of drinks it won't be long till Italy or where ever else is in the same hole.


the typical alcopop drinker consumes no more than two or three per occasion. This is because their sweetness makes them more filling or satisfying (Federal Trade Commission, 2003). Therefore, it has been hypothesized that if alcopops became much more popular, heavy drinking would decrease [1].

.

Fabrizio
December 23rd, 2006, 04:10 AM
Alcopops have been around for awhile in Italy too. They are considered trashy, the taste is un-Italian... and they are not a craze, nor a problem.

Of course there is drinking ... drugs... whatever here too. But the going-out scene is not marred by the slobby drunkeness you see all over the UK.

An interesting observation from a CNN report:

"You can see it in the pubs and the streets of Britain. You can see it in the statistics. But British don't drink that much more than other Europeans or Americans, but many do their drinking all at once. The French or Italians, for example, drink a lot of wine but they do it with their meals, they do it with their families and they do a bit of it every day. A lot of Britons tend to drink a week's worth of alcohol in just one or two nights on the town."

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0407/19/i_ins.01.html

-----

ablarc
December 31st, 2006, 11:04 AM
http://img40.exs.cx/img40/2020/nerocoke200408100019ki.jpg

National characteristics: think how much more closely spaced the tables would be if this were Paris.

nick-taylor
January 2nd, 2007, 05:46 AM
Alcopops have been around for awhile in Italy too. They are considered trashy, the taste is un-Italian... and they are not a craze, nor a problem.

Of course there is drinking ... drugs... whatever here too. But the going-out scene is not marred by the slobby drunkeness you see all over the UK.

An interesting observation from a CNN report:

"You can see it in the pubs and the streets of Britain. You can see it in the statistics. But British don't drink that much more than other Europeans or Americans, but many do their drinking all at once. The French or Italians, for example, drink a lot of wine but they do it with their meals, they do it with their families and they do a bit of it every day. A lot of Britons tend to drink a week's worth of alcohol in just one or two nights on the town."

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0407/19/i_ins.01.html

-----And who is to say that it won't spark on, Italy isn't exactly one of the most progressive countries in Europe. Sometimes that progressive pathway brings problems.

Of course all over the UK....and you bring up a transcript....if you knew anything about transcripts its that they specifically target certain people. I bet I could go to Italy and find areas that have drinking problems and compile the same results. It wouldn't mean that everyone in Italy gets legless, just like it doesn't mean that everyone in Britain gets legless.

Yet like I said previously - your ignorance of this country is as bad as those who are ignorant about alcohol. You are after all the forumer (http://www.wirednewyork.com/forum/showpost.php?p=94938&postcount=115) who claimed that ancestral Brits were residing in caves in the 1300's, while ancestral Italians were building the towers at San Gimignano...yet by then, Britain had built the first building on the planet higher than the Great Pyramid at Giza (2570 BC) and at 160m it was the worlds tallest building for 250 years from 1300 onwards. If the spires had not been destroyed by natural disasters, it would have remained the tallest building on the planet from 1300-1884 (when the Washington Monument was built), ie 584 years instead of the 250 years it presided.

Unfortunately for you, while alcoholics can seek rehab, ignorance is a condition that lacks any such assistance.

ablarc
January 4th, 2007, 08:35 PM
Unfortunately for you, while alcoholics can seek rehab, ignorance is a condition that lacks any such assistance.
Education?

pianoman11686
January 4th, 2007, 10:30 PM
By George, I think he's got it!

Fabrizio
January 5th, 2007, 02:41 AM
Nick: Only a the totally clueless will not see the humour in the thread you mention:

http://www.wirednewyork.com/forum/showthread.php?p=94938#post94938

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Margaret_Dumont

nick-taylor
January 5th, 2007, 04:12 AM
Sorry, but I don't buy an attempt at 'humour' as to what you posted, and continue to post about in other subjects regarding Britain. That might be an easy excuse to fall back on (as to what you truly think Britain was like) but defamatory comments isn't an acceptable position on forums which are meant to be the diffusion of information.

An ironic thing I did miss out from that sourced post is how you stated that you'd been drinking and that this led you to confuse words. How funny that you then go on about drunk and disorderly behaviour in this thread!

Fabrizio
January 5th, 2007, 04:57 AM
and I am now standing in a corner of the office taking a pee.

ablarc
January 5th, 2007, 07:04 AM
Lighten up, nick.

Fabrizio
January 5th, 2007, 03:41 PM
Nick: Sorry, but adding a WOODEN spire to a cathedral and calling it "The Worlds Tallest Building" is CHEATING. Anyone on this forum will tell you that.

From Wikipedia about the Lincoln Cathedral:

"Between the years 1307 and 1311 the central tower was raised to its present height of 83 m (271 feet). The western towers and front of the cathedral were also improved and heightened. At this time, a tall lead-encased wooden spire topped the central tower but was blown down in a storm in 1549. With its spire, the tower reputedly reached a height of 525 feet (which would have made it the world's tallest structure).

Please note the phrase: "the tower REPUTEDLY reached a height of 525 feet".

So we've got a WOODEN spire that REPUTEDLY reached a height of 525 feet.

Are we supposed to be impressed by what sounds like a fish story?

Also: Please note that in the above article it is called a "structure" NOT a "building".

AND.... AND the thing was blown down in a windstorm....oh c'mon! LOL.

(ROTFLMAO...I'm dying...I can't breathe...)

Over here in Italy, most of our old stuff is still standing.... some of it might be leaning ... but its still standing.

----------

Fabrizio
January 6th, 2007, 05:22 AM
BTW NICK: at the moment "The Worlds Tallest Structure" is a television antenna near Fargo, North Dakota. FARGO! And it has been since 1963. But have you ever heard of a North Dakotian having the gall to call it "The Worlds Tallest Building?" Man, you guys are desperate.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KVLY-TV_mast

dragonslayer
March 17th, 2007, 12:56 AM
Interesting statistics about the 400,000 people per square mile by day, 1,500 by night.

I always feel in London that its a lonely city at night.

Unlike NYC and a lot of European cities.

If you are looking for nightlife you should go to the west end, not the financial district (the city). Go to soho and the streets are packed all night - try walking along a pavement at 4 am and you'll soon find out.

lorcar
August 25th, 2008, 05:54 PM
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/24/world/europe/24crete.html?pagewanted=1&em



-----

krulltime
August 26th, 2008, 01:05 AM
^ Here is a video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JqlyKKhyy6Y

scumonkey
August 26th, 2008, 12:58 PM
I was hoping there would be a little footage of this:

...more than a dozen British women were charged in July with prostitution after taking part, the authorities said, in an alfresco oral sex contest. :D

stache
August 26th, 2008, 01:51 PM
No doubt there is something running around on the internet with this 'event'

Meerkat
August 26th, 2008, 09:04 PM
I was hoping there would be a little footage of this:
:D

Not sure what the fuss is about this. Just go up to Hampstead Heath one evening and you'll find hundreds of gay men enjoying alfreso oral (and other) sex.

scumonkey
August 26th, 2008, 09:15 PM
http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&VideoID=4014621

stache
August 27th, 2008, 01:39 AM
Very good, scumonkey!