Oh, and where's our green roof?
Oh, and where's our green roof?
It means nothing to you b/c you don't understand it, and have no interest in entertaining the thought that you may not understand it, so just dismiss it. This is your M.O.Quote:
Originally Posted by ZippyTheChimp
To be fair, this project has been delayed significantly by litigation, and the economic landscape has changed a lot over that time.Quote:
Originally Posted by BrooklynRider
The new design still costs $800m, only saving $200m.
Maybe you should review my posts on this thread, the Jets thread, and others about similar projects before you conclude that I don't understand it.Quote:
Originally Posted by BrooklynLove
This is a discussion forum, and posts get critical analysis all the time. Maybe you're the one who doesn't understand it, and are frustrated because you can't answer the criticism except with meaningless sound-bites.
If you can't take the criticism, don't post.
Are there any renderings of the new plan for the arena complex?
I'm not a fan of deconstructionist designs - so I'm not terribly disappointed by the change in architect...
As it may, BrooklynLove's comment is sited on Curbed this morning:
The De-Frankified Barclays Center React-o-Matic!
Friday, June 5, 2009, by Joey
http://curbed.com/uploads/2009_6_barclaysnew.jpg
Following yesterday's formal announcement of the junking of starchitect Frank Gehry's Atlantic Yards arena for a cheaper design, a look at how the Interweb is reacting to the new Barclays Center, aka The Hangar:
1) "Bye-bye Gehry calls into question whether Barclays Bank, which bought $400 million naming rights for the starchitect's landmark design, will be willing to fork over that kind of cash for...an airplane hangar. It's doubtful." [Develop Don't Destroy Brooklyn]
2) "It's fine. The Gehry design was a bubble age easy credit wet dream. Get the NBA franchise here and all good things will follow. Brooklyn is to Manhattan as Honda is to GM." [Wired New York]
3) "Frank Gehry is designing the individual buildings and the larger development to complement the surrounding communities, creating a sense of scale that fits the low-rise feel of nearby neighborhoods and the more urban feel of downtown Brooklyn." [BarclaysCenter.com]
4) "None of the news coverage this morning notices that, as I pointed out last night, that the rendering omits the much-touted Urban Room, a large, glass-enclosed public space. Given the hold-up in constructing the flagship Building 1 (formerly Miss Brooklyn), the Urban Room became an impossibility and, I'd contend, so became Gehry's design." [Atlantic Yards Report]
5) "I really get a feel for the scale and massing and architectural character with those 'ghost towers'. The arena itself is astonishingly banal. If I had seen it on any other blog, I would have assumed it was in Houston." [Curbed commenter 'doc']
6) "i guess if lebron wants to play in a frank gehry building in 2011 he better take a basketball with him to disney hall in la" [Twitter/Trojan_Talking]
· Atlantic Yards coverage [Curbed]
I read the Atlantic Yard Report earlier this morning.
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Given that Forest City has been working with Ellerbe Becket for three years, did the developer--when the plan was approved in 2006--really intend to build the Gehry design?
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“The current Atlantic Yards plan bears increasingly less resemblance to the project that was approved in 2006,” said Vin Cipolla, the president of the Municipal Art Society [MAS]. “The replacement of Gehry further reduces the public benefits of the project, which urgently needs re-evaluation and oversight.”
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The MAS, in its testimony on the project, said it couldn't support it without major changes, though it praised Gehry's design. In fact, the MAS suggested that, with a north-south re-orientation of the arena, Fifth Avenue could be kept open.
The arena has, in fact, been reoriented, as the graphic at top suggests, but there's been no evidence that the Empire State Development Corporation is reconsidering the closure of Fifth Avenue.
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Meanwhile, the Regional Plan Association (RPA), which has been increasingly critical of the project, must now realize how it was played, given its testimony at the 8/23/06 hearing on the Draft Environmental Impact Statement:
Regional Plan Association supports construction of the signature western block of the project largely as proposed. This block, featuring the basketball arena and four towers, is an excellent example of city-making that will bring tremendous benefits to the area. These initial towers have been designed by the expert hand of Frank Gehry and, along with the arena, will become iconic images representing the borough soon after their construction.
i used to read your posts until it became clear that you're only really interested in reading your own posts as well. that you think my comment is about taking criticism is telling. you don't listen and you think that you know everything about everything. any discussion with you is about starting with your conclusion and you beating everyone over the head with it until they relent or lose interest.Quote:
Originally Posted by ZippyTheChimp
^
I've asked you before what it is that you do that is different.
You've taken a position that you want an NBA team in Brooklyn, and nothing else matters.
I'm not the only one who's noticed.
You're the one that dismissed opposing viewpoints as cheerleading, and then followed it by posting a Ratner press release. Was the irony lost on you? Yes, I read my posts; maybe you should read yours.
Every step of the way in this thread, as the project has morphed into something unrecognizable, you've rationalized with things like "but happening."
How does "Brooklyn is to Manhattan as Honda is to GM" promote a discussion? It seems to dismiss discussion.
Grow up. This isn't Brownstoner, or wherever else you got your "reputation."
If you've got anything further to add, send me a PM.
He's not the only one who disagrees with you- at least not this time...Quote:
Originally Posted by BrooklynLove
The new design is worse than crap ;)
A design befitting of those who think anything new is OK for Brooklyn -- quality be damned.
Because of their experience with professional sport arenas, it sounds logical that Ellerbe Becket would have been a collaborator in the early stages of Frank Gehry's design process. But it's incredibly difficult to conceive how an economic reduction went from Frank Gehry to an Indiana fieldhouse. Calatrava, to his credit, has fought to stay engaged in the value-engineering modifications to the WTC transit hub.
At least the Conseco FieldHouse was born from a concept: a celebration of Indiana high school basketball where a small rural school could send five players to the state championship. Conseco FieldHouse played on myth and memory to defend its fieldhouse design. But what is happening in Brooklyn? The PR well has been poisioned by many sides. I'm skeptical to believe anything or anyone because the hidden agendas alone could build this project.
The development process in New York City is broken. The damage is strewn throughout every borough: Atlantic Yards, Hudson Yards, the WTC, the list goes on. Integrity (w/ transparency) is a PR mirage, a lie told so often, it goes down easy, like koolaid. Major reform is needed at both public and private levels, from public policy, design review, financing, and community benefit.
Right now, all are players and all lose. Not a pretty sight.
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Originally Posted by scumonkey
Ok but that wasn't the point of contention. This was -Quote:
Originally Posted by lofter1
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Originally Posted by BrooklynLove
Can't agree with you on that point either :cool:Quote:
Brooklyn is to Manhattan as Honda is to GM.