Silvio Berlusconi- King of Italy, Right Wing Pustule

[Ninjahedge]

Originally Posted by Fabrizio

Zippy: I owe you zero. My post is there for all to see.

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Fab, the point is, you edited it while he was responding, then criticized him for something that you edited out. Then when confronted, instead of saying "oops" and brushing it under the rug, you imply that that oversight was somehow a mistake on his part implying his own invalidity in commenting on your post.

Netiquette usually implies that if you change something, even if the change happens before someone posts, that you admit to the change if someone comments on it before the change. He wasn't nettling you about it, he was making a comparison/comment (not like picking at a misspelling that you corrected).

Don't force him to start quoting your posts when he replies to insure that what he replies to stays. That kinda ruins the whole rule-set here.....

Ninja: I posted some statistics on unemployment in Europe with the comment: "for what it's worth"

This gets hard Fab. That can either be seen as an aside, or a bit of defensiveness depending on how it is read. One of the hazards of the net. I find that sometimes emoticons or textualized actions help sometimes. [Edit, so does redundancy?]

/me shrugs

It was met with this snide remark, from a moderator big on lessons in class no less:

"I'm sure he has the trains running on time."

It was a bit snide, but that seemed to fit with the general mood things were taking "Fabrizo dear"

A popular reference to Italy's fascist past. Zippy was successful in setting the tone for the rest to follow.

So popular I failed to see it until you both pointed it out.

Ya gotta learn, a veiled insult is only an insult when you tell everyone else what it is. I saw it more as a commentary that some things were being done that were not as important as others. I can also appreciate the veiled Mussolini reference, but I do not take it any further than HINTS at an attitude that has the wrong flavor for his professed policies and direction. Like I said, that pic is not flattering in a sense that it IS threatening and imposing. The message is clear in the arms crossed, the body slightly turned and the scowl.

One thing though, you seem to be pretty good at deflecting commentary, but you seem to step right back in the poo when you turn to insult or degrade the original poster. It is one thing to flick off a comment and treat it as less important, but when you then question the validity of the person behind it, you will NOT get them to agree and you WILL get them to defend themselves.

Granted, others do the same. But, and here's the classic, Just because others do it does not make it right.

And I apologize to the forum for taking the bait.

--

That wasn't bait. That was more of a "piff". A flick-off with no real malice behind it. You get that a lot just because people do not feel you take them seriously.

MTG was that canary. He exploded in a torrent of yellow feathers from your first post, but others are also effected by what and how you post. It just takes them longer to get ruffled.

I am not saying you should stop, but just to be aware, you DO have your hands on the wheel of this thread. When you give it a good tug, it will swerve. Just be more careful how long and often you yank it, k?

[Fabrizio]

Ninj:

"It was a bit snide, but that seemed to fit with the general mood things were taking "Fabrizo dear""

Things were taking?

Again Ninja: it gets difficult for me to constantly correct your posts: Zippy's was the first post, a provocation and setting a tone. I was also told "Enjoy your guardhouse duties here." ... "testy nationalism"... etc.... all personal comments before my "Zippy dear". Do we have that straight? And I have no reason... none... to engage in Netettiquette with this fellow.

In the meantime: I said I apologize to the forum for taking the bait. That is enough from me. And since I do know better it was stupid on my part.

[Fabrizio]

About those employment statistics: I mean what I say, "for what it's worth". Make of it what you will.

For me it means, along with other indicators, Italy's performance is good under this recession. Last year, unemployment was at 6 something. No banlk failures. No wild phenomena of home foreclosures. These good showings do not mean all is rosey: Italy has a huge internal debt among other intrinsic problems ... and economic news today seems to change with the wind... so we'll see... but compared to others, we are not doing that bad.

[ZippyTheChimp]

Originally Posted by Ninjahedge

It was a bit snide, but that seemed to fit with the general mood things were taking "Fabrizo dear" `

It's that much of the tone of this forum, especially in Politics, is sarcasm.

Ooooh, my post was provocative.
Ooooh, my post set a tone.

I mean, hello...look at the thread title.

We have numerous threads about the US and other countries that are dripping with vitriol. There's one thread that insults the PM of Italy, and one Italian that has his shorts riding up over it.

When like 2/3 of you posts are on one thread, and no post goes unanswered, well, that's being on guard duty.

Sometimes you just have to step away. It's just one freaking thread on one forum.

[Fabrizio]

"It's that much of the tone of this forum, especially in Politics, is sarcasm."

Then let's remember that when I use sarcasm.

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[Ninjahedge]

Originally Posted by Fabrizio

Ninj:

"It was a bit snide, but that seemed to fit with the general mood things were taking "Fabrizo dear""

Things were taking?

Again Ninja: it gets difficult for me to constantly correct your posts:

Then don't.

Especially when you are wrong.

Zippy's was the first post, a provocation and setting a tone. I was also told "Enjoy your guardhouse duties here." ... "testy nationalism"... etc.... all personal comments before my "Zippy dear". Do we have that straight? And I have no reason... none... to engage in Netettiquette with this fellow.

Then leave. You are bitching and moaning all the time and yuor poor little Italy is always the brunt of so much unwanted criticism. Poor you, we all cry for you.

YOU set the tone. Your endless bickering with MTG and others. It is NEVER "your fault" you point fingers at everybody. Tell me Fab, if it is always everyone elses fault, why are they all arguing with YOU?

In the meantime: I said I apologize to the forum for taking the bait. That is enough from me. And since I do know better it was stupid on my part.

That is not an apology. That is backhanded at best. "I apologize for yuor stupidity" kind of thing., or in this case, "I apologize for reacting to your insults".

WTH? You really need to learn how to apologize correctly, all you do is piss people off the way you do it now.

[Ninjahedge]

Originally Posted by Fabrizio

"It's that much of the tone of this forum, especially in Politics, is sarcasm."

Then let's remember that when I use sarcasm.

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Sarcasm is different that vitriol.

One is a bit more bitter to those forced to taste it.

[Fabrizio]

Vitriol? Did you say vitriol?

Originally Posted by ZippyTheChimp

We have numerous threads about the US and other countries that are dripping with vitriol.

Then let's remember that when I use vitriol.

[Fabrizio]

Ninja: I am curious about your 2 comments about the photo of Berlusconi that Zippy posted:

You write:

"The pose? What do you think a pose like Silvio is doing is supposed to convey? A willingness to converse, or a tough guy imposing stare? It's the same pose, therefore the comparison is passing, but still telling. He is trying to emote the same feeling as displayed in the Mussolini picture, except he is not in a military-style uniform."

And

"Like I said, that pic is not flattering in a sense that it IS threatening and imposing. The message is clear in the arms crossed, the body slightly turned and the scowl."

Do you feel that he is posing for the camera or is it a candid shot without us knowing the moment or context? Your post implies that you believe it is posed. Is that true? Do you believe that? Just curious.

(Oh... and on a scale of 1 to 10 let me know where this post lies on the bickering/sarcasm/vitriol index).

[Ninjahedge]

Again, denial.

Either you are using it, or your delivery is so skewed that your innocent postings are read my more than a few as biting condescending "play the innocent" posts to all they are addressed to.

Communication means telling someone else something. If people all think you are bitter and venomous in your responses and that is not what you intended, you did not communicate very well.


/me shrugs

Meh.

[Fabrizio]

Ninj: I'm writing down all of your good... and voluminous... advice and personal observations. It means so much to me and I'm sure to others here.

[Ninjahedge]

About as much as your comments mean to us?

Do tell.

Or, rather. Don't tell. Keep your own sage wit and snappy repartee to yourself and hold onto all the "joy" you impart to others for you to enjoy.

[Fabrizio]

I've tried 2 times now to get the thread back on track. Both times ignored.

So perhaps we can try again? Since these2 posts were buried in the advice and personal observation extravaganza, I'll post them again.

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Ninja: I am curious about your 2 comments about the photo of Berlusconi that Zippy posted:

You write:

"The pose? What do you think a pose like Silvio is doing is supposed to convey? A willingness to converse, or a tough guy imposing stare? It's the same pose, therefore the comparison is passing, but still telling. He is trying to emote the same feeling as displayed in the Mussolini picture, except he is not in a military-style uniform."

And

"Like I said, that pic is not flattering in a sense that it IS threatening and imposing. The message is clear in the arms crossed, the body slightly turned and the scowl."

Do you feel that he is posing for the camera or is it a candid shot without us knowing the moment or context? Your post implies that you believe it is posed. Is that true? Do you believe that? Just curious.


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And this:

"About those employment statistics: I mean what I say, "for what it's worth". Make of it what you will.

For me it means, along with other indicators, Italy's performance is good under this recession. Last year, unemployment was at 6 something. No banlk failures. No wild phenomena of home foreclosures. These good showings do not mean all is rosey: Italy has a huge internal debt among other intrinsic problems ... and economic news today seems to change with the wind... so we'll see... but compared to others, we are not doing that bad."

--

However if you both want to continue with your ranting please do.... don't let me stop you.

[Alonzo-ny]

If this off topic discussion continues I am going to lock the thread. I have repeatedly said discussion about how people post should be discussed in Forum Issues.

[MidtownGuy]

Italy Scores Poorly On World Gender Gap Report

Katie Baker

Thanks to the antics of Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi--his excursions with escorts, his insistence that beauty queens be included in his Parliament, his description of his country as a land of "beautiful secretaries"--Italy's getting slammed often these days for its culture of chauvinism. Now, the World Economic Forum's annual Gender Gap Report gives heft to those accusations. This year, Italy places a dismal number 79 (out of 134 ) on the ranking of nations by gender equality, falling five places from 2008. By contrast, the rest of Europe scored well: Scandinavian countries took the first four spots again this year, and eight other European nations placed in the top 20. Even Kazakhstan and Uzbekistan bested Italy, by 32 and 21 places, respectively.

Italy scored particularly poorly on measures of economic opportunity, because women account for only 43 percent of the workforce, and only one third of senior positions in Italian companies are held by females (compared with 43 percent in the U.S.). And Italy ranks among the worst (116) for equal pay for equal work.

While it's hard to accuse Berlusconi of being single-handedly responsible for keeping Italian women down, his crass comments reflect lingering cultural prejudices, critics say. Last month, more than 100,000 exasperated women signed a petition decrying Berlusconi's "sexist" remark to an opposition politician that she was "more beautiful than intelligent." His act sounds more like Borat every day, only women aren't laughing.

http://blog.newsweek.com/blogs/wealt...ap-report.aspx