Modernizing at LaGuardia: $1 billion makeover

[futurecity]

Hmm, glanced at your response.

You did, but you didn't take the time to aknowledge or anything I wrote, just proves that you entered into this disucssion without any real desire to add to it.

Childish for saying that it costs a lot to build an island?

http://www.dailycommercialnews.com/article/20050517800

And google Dubai if you would like.

Again, I never said the island idea was the best one or cheap, but the fact that big ideas are bandied about in other cities means that all ideas are taken into account, even the unattainable ones. The PA doesn't discuss visionary ideas, it just doesn't - which is bad for NY's future. Everyone knows that off-shore islands cost a mountain, but those cities that have done it have reaped the benefits. A green field site would be easier and just as effective.

I love the way you do not answer a question by calling it childish and think that the government has SO much money it can throw away that much to just build an island because people, which you have not sited in any solid way, "might" want it that way.

BTW:

Again, I never said ''just build an island''. I want the PA to discuss all ideas openly for the good of NY's air transport future -- if the island was proven to be an opportunity for the long run, to create a real super hub, then so be it, if not, well at least they contemplated it. Rememer that the investment could be worth it in the long run, again why are you thinking only 5 years down the road?


[/b]

Proves your ignorance.

Red bank IS a piece of land, adjacent to Manhattan, right on the waterfront, with high density areas. Google it for yourself.

Redbank is a outer suburban town. It would never serve as an extension of manhattan, or another CBD. Don't kid yourself, it is a historic town that wouldn't be open to large scale development. I can't believe you could be so ignorant as to bring this up

[ZippyTheChimp]

His posts are contradictory.

He acknowledges the need for another airport, but opposes Stewart without offering any alternative. Then compounds it by proposing to close one of the three, still without any site for #4.

He dismisses proposals that he opposes by stating the money will never be spent to provide the infrastructure to support it, then turns around and assumes it will be spent for the proposal he favors.

He keeps accusing others of short-sightedness, but is taking that very approach in regard to Stewart. Again, my example of Floyd Bennett was ignored.

He asserts that political-will is all that is holding back JFK expansion into Jamaica Bay [political will to overcome environmental issues], then tries to use environmental issues as a basis to close LGA.

He claims exclusive understanding of hubs and has access to airport-insiders, but has not offered one piece of documentation to support his proposal.

[Ninjahedge]

You did, but you didn't take the time to aknowledge or anything I wrote, just proves that you entered into this disucssion without any real desire to add to it.

Again shows your lack of knowledge. You seem to be a reactionary that is not taking time to think about what they are posting. This one sentence seems to be a stream of consciousness.

"Acknowledge (spelling) OR anything" makes no sense, and you have a run-on sentence. No biggies, if you were not going around calling other people ill-informed or childish.

As for redBank, I will admit that is my problem.

Try this instead:

RedHook.

[futurecity]

Again shows your lack of knowledge. You seem to be a reactionary that is not taking time to think about what they are posting. This one sentence seems to be a stream of consciousness.

"Acknowledge (spelling) OR anything" makes no sense, and you have a run-on sentence. No biggies, if you were not going around calling other people ill-informed or childish.

As for redBank, I will admit that is my problem.

Try this instead:

RedHook.

Jesus, are you a pedant or what... so go on, divert the conversation..nice. This isn't a formal writing exercise, I'm writing fast and thinking fast buddy, and I'm not wasting time thinking about whether or not my sentances are perfect enough for your poor little eyes. Try sticking to the actual ideas and talk about the issues, not spelling.

Redhook isn't suitable and would have no where near the ammount of developable space that LGA could bring.

[ZippyTheChimp]

You already used pedant.

[stache]

It's getting very SSP.

[futurecity]

His posts are contradictory.

He acknowledges the need for another airport, but opposes Stewart without offering any alternative. Then compounds it by proposing to close one of the three, still without any site for #4.

Yawn, I told you I liked the 'idea' of Stewart airport. Why do I have to repeat myself. I said it will not WORK, get it? There is no political will to invest in a train fast enough to reduce the time needed to get there. I did say that another airport was vital, and that is an alternative, you see. How the hell am I supposed to know where to put #4 as of now? There are countless rural sites that could be slated for an airport, that would be easier to get to than Stewart. That is why I am falling back to JFK/EWR as the only possible solutions b/c new airports are very hard to build today with NIMBYs and if you look at a map of JFK, you can put another runway in there either on the bay or over the hangers.

He dismisses proposals that he opposes by stating the money will never be spent to provide the infrastructure to support it, then turns around and assumes it will be spent for the proposal he favors.

Go on, you haven't once explained your vision for Stewart... I told you, you are talking about HSR here, and there is no WILL to do it. I assume they'll spend nothing on anything. I said that if they were serious about Stewart, they would''ve suggested a proper rail solution from the begining, but they don't consider it anything more than a regional reliever airport. It is clearly not in their plans... you should see that.

He keeps accusing others of short-sightedness, but is taking that very approach in regard to Stewart. Again, my example of Floyd Bennett was ignored.

You are kidding I hope. Bennet field has nothing to do with this time, you can't draw similiarities. There was no such thing as the mega-hub then.

Stewart is not a serious 4th airport and everyone, even the NYDOT knows it. They consider it a regional, reliever airport. Where is the propsal for proper access from NYC? Do you know how much the Tappan Zee with a Metro North track will cost? 16 billion dollars. Think about what that money could do to JFK or EWR.

He asserts that political-will is all that is holding back JFK expansion into Jamaica Bay [political will to overcome environmental issues], then tries to use environmental issues as a basis to close LGA.

I will say it again. I do not believe that the loss of a small segment of Jamaica bay outweights the horrendous blight that LGA diffuses over the surounding aras. You disagree, fine. You do not have documentation that could prove wetlands are more important to health than direct exposure to aircraft fumes and noise, do you?

He claims exclusive understanding of hubs and has access to airport-insiders, but has not offered one piece of documentation to support his proposal.

I said airline insiders, people who I can discuss my ideas with. Never did i say I knew people in the PA or people who were actually planning this...you don't read what I say properly. Of course there is no documentation as of now, these are my ideas - this is not a proposal, and I never implied it was. I said I talked to some people who had some good ideas and agreed that my ideas were reasonable.

[futurecity]

You are overly optimistic about Stewart.. I look at it as palmdale #2 or Mirabelle #2. I learn from history and I see no real interest from the authorities in investing what is required into Stewart.

When HKIA was announced, so was the HSR there w/ all the necessary infrastructure. When Kansai was announced, the same. Stewart has seen no such concrete plans for the future which leads me to believe it will never every be anything more than a regional reliever.

You claim that it is the best option, but I have seen no decent DOCUMENTATION from you on how stewart is going to be accessible..

[ZippyTheChimp]

Yawn, I told you I liked the 'idea' of Stewart airport. Why do I have to repeat myself. I said it will not WORK, get it?

Same thing

Go on, you haven't once explained your vision for Stewart...

I said this thread, and my response to your post, is about your idea to close LGA. Why do I have to repeat myself?

You are kidding I hope. Bennet field? You are a man living in the past. Stewart is not a serious 4th airport and everyone, even the NYDOT knows it.

Can't you read? I made an analogy that Floyd Bennett was once thought of as being too far from Manhattan to be a viable airport (psst JFK is further away), just as you now think that Stewart is too far away.

I will say it again. I do not believe that the loss of a small segment of Jamaica bay outweights the horrendous blight that LGA diffuses over the surounding aras.

You can say it as many times as you want; you don't know what you're talking about.

You do not have documentation that could prove wetlands are more important than direct exposure to aircraft fumes and noise, do you?

We have a thread on Jamaica Bay. I'm knowledgeable on the subject, and actually do know insiders who've been involved in its restoration. If you wish to debate me on wetlands management, go to that thread. But you'd better know what you're talking about.

I said airline insiders, people who I can discuss my ideas with.

Man-on-the-street. Nobody.

Like when I said your posts seemed like Google Earth view of the area, you said you had a house in New York. We both know that's bull.

[futurecity]

Same thing

No, it is not. I told you, I like outlying airports if a proper concrete proposal is made to make them accessible.. I have seen nothing of the sort that would give me hope on Stewart.

I said this thread, and my response to your post, is about your idea to close LGA. Why do I have to repeat myself?

Because Stewart is directly related to my idea to close LGA and you seem to think it is a solution, which it is not in its current form.

Can't you read? I made an analogy that Floyd Bennett was once thought of as being too far from Manhattan to be a viable airport (psst JFK is further away), just as you now think that Stewart is too far away.

Of course I know what you meant. A different era, and in no way relates to stewart today. You can't compare the two situations.

You can say it as many times as you want; you don't know what you're talking about.


We have a thread on Jamaica Bay. I'm knowledgeable on the subject, and actually do know insiders who've been involved in its restoration. If you wish to debate me on wetlands management, go to that thread. But you'd better know what you're talking about.

Man-on-the-street. Nobody.

What a joke -- so its ok for you to know people in wetland management, and not for me to know airline people? Double standards, huh? I could say your wetland people are just men-on-the-street.

You obviously know nothing about the subject of pollution, b/c you are willing to allow people in Queens to suffer from it. You think noise pollution is not a problem -- there have been countless studies that show the harm it does, especially to kids. Don't patronise me. You say I don't know what I'm talking about yet you offer no understanding of the situation. So, therefore, I will assume that you are avoiding the question out of ignorance.

Like when I said your posts seemed like Google Earth view of the area, you said you had a house in New York. We both know that's bull.

Of course I have a residence there and have lived there often. How dare you presume I am lying.. Why do you think I care about NYC and its improvement? You just like to discredit me. You have formed an unfavorable opinion of me, probably b/c you are over protective of NYC, and whatever I say now you will attempt to belittle. That to me is a childish attitude to take. Then you go after my life and my personal situation....Jesus, I'm sick of your arrogant attitude. You presume to know everything about me, now? You are a nasty piece of work. Did I ever make presumptions about your life? NO.

I will say now that just b/c you have different ideas and you disagree, does not give you right to attack everything I say, especially my personal situation.. It makes you appear prejudiced and malicious, as if you have it out for me.

Here is another thing that I find incredibly hypocritical -- you value the wetlands, yet you don't give a shit about the effects of LGA on the surrounding residents....you are really a fantastic environmentalist - don't quit your day job I don't need to be an expert in wetland management to notice this rather odd kink in your rhetoric that doesn't fly. Did you even study a map of JFK? -- you don't even realize that only a small portion of the bay would be claimed if a new runway were added.

I am willing to drop this whole thing and agree to disagree. I will not continue to talk to people who have an agenda against me, who are out to discredit me. We wil all see who is right regarding Stewart in the years ahead and I feel like my forsight will proove correct. I am sure that the PA takes your side on LGA, as they are rather conservative and care little about the common man. However, I also am sure that NYC will find itself in a major bind when it comes to Air Transport capacity in the future due to lack of action/vision, unless of course (god forbid) the city never recovers from the current economy

[ZippyTheChimp]

You can't just make things up.

Where have I heard that before?

whatever I say now you will attempt to belittle.

I mostly ignore your threads.

Come to think of it...

You can't just make things up.

[stache]

futurecity, I'm hoping this particular line of thought is drawing to a conclusion.

[futurecity]

You can't just make things up.

Where have I heard that before?


I mostly ignore your threads.

Come to think of it...

You can't just make things up.

That idea was a pretty good one -- do you know why? Because it is a well tested idea the world over (linking commuter rail through cities) -- London, Paris, Milan, I could go on and on. Ignore them if you want. I really don't care. I enjoy talking about the big-picture, you seem to prefer living in the world of what is ''realistic" otherwise you would give me some credit.. I live in the world of potential. I guess I will ignore your posts from now on too.

I think my ideas are great, and I'm happy about it -- nothing you can say would ever dissaude me.

[futurecity]

futurecity, I'm hoping this particular line of thought is drawing to a conclusion.

Sure, I'll cease discussing this if it causes you so much heartache -- of course I still feel that I am correct and that you are not - but such is the nature of life...we will see soon enough.

[stache]

I think that's a good idea.