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Thread: Dept of Sanitation Garage in Hudson Square

  1. #151

    Default Report

    January 31, 2007 DSNY Public Scoping Hearing at NYU – Written Comments Deadline
    Extended to February 20, 2006
    Over 200 members of the public in attendance, strong turnout
    DSNY Personnel – Daniel Klein, DSNY Director of Real Estate
    Orlando Davis – Assistant to Daniel Klein
    Steven Brautigam – DSNY Asst. Commissioner of Environmental Affairs
    Richard Dattner, AIA – Architect for the UPS Site
    Edwards & Kelsey – Engineering Consultants
    Hydroqual – Environmental Consultants
    Elected officials representatives in attendance:
    1. Kate Kirk – Councilmember Christine Quinn
    No prepared statement, following closely will come before City Council…did a mailing to those
    in database…
    2. Gregory Bender – State Assembly Member Deborah Glick
    Extend comment period to 2/20/07 – consider a 2nd hearing – storage of combustible fuels at site.
    Above or below ground? Fires above ground led to collapse of 7WTC – traffic implications –
    heavily burdened neighborhood – additional truck traffic impact on neighborhood traffic patterns
    – vehicles idling – construction work impact on historic buildings – a slow earthquake –
    aesthetic impact of building – uncharacteristically tall – describe appearance of building – odor
    emanating from truck storage – full shadow study given the size upon HRP
    3. Adam Riff – State Senator Thomas Duane
    Proactive and long-awaited plan to relocate – fuel storage above HOLLAND TUNNEL –
    obvious safety threat – 3 CD’s economy of scale – downside trucks traveling greater distance –
    how much total annual truck mileage will increase – fair share of burden for all neighborhoods –
    how will 3 districts impact HUDSON SQUARE neighborhood, traffic environment heath, etc.
    Maintain balance within community for some other facility to mitigate damage.
    4. Maria Passanante Derr – CB2 - Chairperson
    February, 1999 – Mr. Klein extensive meetings – board resolution DSNY plan being contingent
    on a number of factor…CB4 agreed to accept 3 districts – CB2 would then accept trucks for
    CB1.
    Never contemplated inclusion of trucks from CB5 – phenomenal rate of growth in HUDSON
    SQUARE – never planned large structure – open air plan was approved = least impact – most
    flexibility – need a comparison of CB2 vs. CB5 – 4 committees on CB2 will be looking at this.
    5. Philip Mouquinho – CB2 Chair – Sidewalks
    33 years ago POWER BROKER came out – Robert Moses – didn’t care about neighborhoods,
    just wanted to get it done. Born and raised 3 blocks from proposed action…never heard of a
    worse idea in my life. HUDSON SQUARE has experienced wonderful renaissance – so what
    does the City do – they give us garbage facilities – I don’t fight progress – but we don’t need it
    here – 30th Street has existing garage – City was going to give us a sanitation facility – It’s not
    about NIMBY – HUDSON SQUARE is already designated as a red zone too much co2. Add
    hundreds of trucks, larger UPS storage of trucks – Let’s comment on the scoping, but let’s scope
    it somewhere else.
    6. Ian Dutton – CB2 – Traffic and Transportation – public member
    Just focus on traffic – poor air quality effect of noise – comprehensive study of effect of traffic
    on neighborhood – Canal Area Transportation Study – traffic effects on Houston, Spring and
    West Streets – employee parking should be discouraged – no special treatment – use public
    transit
    7. Saan Kahn – Manhattan Borough Presidents Office community liaison
    We’re just here to listen to community concerns.
    In attendance but not speaking
    8. For Congress member Jerrold Nadler – Drinkwater
    9. For City Councilmember Alan Gerson - Sarah
    10. Ann Arlen – CB2 Environment – public member
    1999 Resolution was chair of Environment Committee – CB1 and CB2 originally to be located
    on waterfront…”DSNY failure to convert trucks from diesel fuel…doesn’t belong in residential
    neighborhoods”. Anticipate maximum amount of pollution…ultra-low sulfur diesel…
    Can’t find filter to do pollution reduction. Be wise…can’t just buy into it. True pollution
    reduction actually in-use is. DEIS too late to have any CB2 meetings prior to Scoping Meeting.
    11. Carole DeSarem – CB1 – Chair TriBeCa Committee
    Extend time for CB1 to submit resolutions of concerns. number of trucks, storage of fuel, 9/11
    sensitivity. HOLLAND TUNNEL impact by accident or otherwise will shut down Lower
    Manhattan. Really has to be dealt with.
    12. Andy Neale – CB1 – TriBeCa Committee
    Comments until end of February.
    Members of the Public
    13. Richard Barrett – Canal West Coalition
    Extra-ordinary traffic on Canal Street…documented health hazards…traffic continues to grow,
    annually 3.5%. City done nothing to mitigate…City has put more residents at risk for asthma at
    HUDSON SQUARE. Nothing more we can do about Canal Street… studies, congestion, health
    concerns…
    Pm2.5 particulates…microscopic NY phenomenon. Diesel, truck and buses and tall buildings
    that track their fumes. Spitzer filed suit against NYS DOT about Jersey-bound Sanitation trucks.
    2004 Manhattan was declared a non-attainment area by 2010 for PM2.5. Hot Spot problem on
    Route 9A. Mobile 6 to be used…disparity between real world emissions and model predictions.
    Yale Study real world to be 500x higher than average, could be 15x20 higher. High Point in
    South Bronx study real world at receptors – diesel bus as culprit…obfuscation of health impacts
    of Holland Tunnel vent shafts…EPA characterized as stationary polluters. To separate
    incompatible uses NYC uses zoning…this is ludicrous and highly irresponsible. THIS PLAN
    SHOULD NOT MOVE FORWARD.
    14. Ross Graham – Co-chair Friends of Hudson River Park
    Lived on the Westside since 1965. Advocate for park and legislative stature being fulfilled.
    Nothing was happening, new buildings going up on Gansevoort brought a lawsuit and reached a
    settlement to move DSNY off by 2012. Until then they would pay a fee to allow for construction.
    Hope that problems can be mitigated.
    15. Denise Levine – resident 505 Greenwich Street near Spring Street
    Scoping underplays environmental concerns of neighborhood. Fuel storage poses safety and
    terrorist concerns. Effect of large-scale DSNY facility is within the boundary of the Waterfront
    Park. Maps contained in scoping documents suggest commercial and industrial uses ignores
    several large multiple dwellings that have recently gone up. Proposed facility will affect health
    and character of neighborhood. West Street to Varick, Canal to Spring Streets is heavily
    trafficked increase pollution and congestion. Recommend expansion to environmental study.
    Environment should become lead agency.
    16. David Reck – Friends of Hudson Square
    Registered architect, CB2 member…Led HUDSON SQUARE rezoning, major setback for
    neighborhood.
    CB2 recommended significantly larger area to rezone. M1 zone is quite bogus. C6 zone is C6-2A
    contextual zone…TriBeCa mixed-use district in the works at CPC with support of CB#1.
    Reviewed scoping document, DSNY should not be lead agency…. independent lead agency CPC
    or Environment. Defective statement on impacts includes other City review categories. Proposed
    SWMP is not a reality or supported by community, 4 facilities do not comply with Fair Share –
    Equitable Distribution. No resemblance to the 1999 proposal. Must examine other alternatives,
    scoping assumes no alternatives. Site in CB4 as late as 2005 was committed to this site.
    Re-Fueling station people have talked about risks…Note document to use 2000 census data,
    which is way too old for this area. Many live/work businesses in surrounding loft buildings
    should not be ignored. Canal Street Park was ignored. Parking and traffic…400-vehicle parking
    is not just the issue. new buildings have been built on parking lots --- 2000 spaces have been lost.
    Parking on street is very difficult, don’t destroy community parking and give employees parking.
    Park them in the garage…Trip analysis is needed…deceptive as noted…
    17. Michael Kramer – Testified for the Grant Organization
    My name is Michael Kramer and I am here to represent the Eugene M. Grant Company, owners of the St
    Johns Building for over forty years. Our building, bounded by Spring and Clarkson Streets from West to
    Washington Streets, is remarkable as it dates back to 1935, to an earlier era when Manhattan’s waterfront
    was the center of break/bulk freight and the St Johns Park Freight House was the terminus for the New
    York Central Railroad. We have always strived to be a good neighbor and a model corporate citizen for
    the City of New York and welcome the park-friendly relocation of trucks off of Gansevoort Peninsula.
    Our goal is to offer some common-sense alternatives to find a constructive solution that will minimize the
    impact upon our neighborhood with a “Fair Share” of services amongst the affected community districts.
    1. We have carefully read the CB#2 and CB#4 resolutions that date back to 1999 and find no reference to
    Manhattan Community District #5 which services Midtown Manhattan. Blocks 675, 1093 and 1094 were
    all listed as site alternatives in the FEIS study for the Hudson Yards re-zoning rather than the UPS site.
    We feel strongly that CD#5 which services midtown Manhattan should be sited outside of our district.
    2. We wonder whether the salt-pile could be stored in the existing CD#3 shed under the Manhattan
    Bridge. Last Sunday, this shed was only halfway full, and it would seem to be convenient to the adjacent
    Community District’s #1 and 2.
    3. On Gansevoort Peninsula, DSNY recently constructed a 70,000 sf temporary garage to house existing
    operations. Even when accounting for the salt-pile, why do you need to take over three sites with almost
    650,000 sf of build able space to replace this? Is it really “apples to apples” to what is being relocated?
    4. How much of your proposed garage will be used to store employee private vehicles? Perhaps a better
    use could be made of the existing or a rebuilt parking garage on Clarkson Street or maybe free Metro
    Cards would encourage the use of mass transit by your employees?
    5. We understand that the CD#1 garage at Canal and West Streets is now obsolete. Has a study been
    undertaken to design a new facility to house CD#1 and perhaps CD#2 DSNY trucks? Potentially you
    could build a building just as large as the “temporary garage” that was just completed at Gansevoort.
    We also have specific concerns that will need to be addressed in your DEIS as follows:
    1. With proposals for Piers 40 and 57 creating the potential for heavy traffic generators, and with the
    potential for more residential development just to the north of our building, our own possible future
    growth, and the re-zoning of Northern TriBeCa, how can we not have traffic hot-spots, noise and air
    quality concerns that would be exacerbated by the construction of a large garage at the UPS site? How
    many truck and car trips are generated by each Community Sanitation District that is proposed to be
    housed here? How can there not be a “significant impact” upon our socio-economic conditions?
    2. We understand that an RFP went out one year ago to contract for architectural and engineering services
    to design these new facilities. Why have we not seen any renderings? Are there plans sized to house only
    one or two (rather than three) Community Districts at the UPS site?
    3. Please tell us more about the acquisition of the UPS site for your requirements. Who will own this
    facility? How can we be certain that additional municipal services will not be relocated to this site?
    4. Finally, we are concerned about the location of a hazardous fuel depot so close to the Holland Tunnel.
    Thank you for the opportunity to present our public comments on the draft Scope of Work to consider this
    plan for a Consolidated Sanitation Garage for Manhattan Districts 1, 2 and 5. We will also submit in
    writing a more detailed technical response before February 12th.
    18. Gary Spindler – Testified for the 52 Clarkson Street Parking Garage (Owner)
    Testimony of Gary Spindler
    Scoping Hearing
    January 31, 2007
    My name is Gary Spindler. Besides being a resident of the Hudson Square/West Village
    Community, my partners and I, own the parking garage at 575 Washington Street, the site of the
    proposed Salt Storage Facility. Like so many others here, I first heard about the proposed
    condemnation of our garage for a Proposed Sanitation Facility only three weeks ago.
    The Garage
    Our parking garage has a legal capacity of 400 spaces, not the 80 spaces as set forth in
    the Scoping Document. We provide 24 hours a day; 7 days a week that fulfills the community’s
    needs. We are fully occupied and currently have a waiting list of names for spaces. Our facility
    has been providing a convenient, affordable service to the Hudson Square/West Village residents
    and businesses for over twenty years. There is a critical shortage of parking here. Over 1200
    parking spaces have been lost in the immediate area in the past few years, and it rumored that
    over six hundred spaces will be lost at Pier 40 if the new plans come through. It is unlikely that
    new parking spaces will be built, and other surface lots will disappear when development plans
    are approved. The high water table in this area makes building underground parking spaces in
    new buildings difficult and very expensive. The loss of 400 spaces at our garage will exacerbate
    the already unbearable traffic problems in our neighborhood.
    Alternate Site
    I operate parking facilities and am not an expert on the location of sanitation facilities.
    However, there must be alternative sites for the proposed Salt Storage Facility, other than our
    garage, perhaps the underutilized salt storage facility under the Manhattan Bridge. Did you study
    any alternative sites?
    Increased Traffic
    The increase in overall truck traffic caused by combining the sanitation facilities will
    have an enormous impact on the Hudson Square/West Village Community, causing increased air
    and noise pollution. The Scoping Document proposes to utilize traffic data generated almost 2
    years ago. This data is stale. Under customary environmental practices, traffic data is outdated if
    it is more than 12 months old.
    New Modern Facility
    Over the past six months, we had had several meetings with the Department of City Planning
    about replacing our existing garage with a modern facility to better serve our clients. With the
    proposed condemnation of our garage, our plans are totally up in the air and we are faced with
    what my attorney has called “condemnation blight”.
    Petition
    I am providing you with a petition signed by our garage customers protesting the
    destruction of our garage for a Salt Storage Facility.
    PLEASE FIND ANOTHER SITE THAT IS VACANT OR USE EXISTING
    UNDERUTILIZED SALT STORAGE FACILITIES INSTEAD OF TAKING OUR
    GARAGE.
    19. Joanne Hendrix – Resident
    Further impact upon neighborhood… scale back or do something else at that site.
    Expanding it into our expanding neighborhood is maybe not the place it should be.
    20. Murray Weinstock – Resident since 1980
    Completely different view…late at night HUDSON SQUARE sleeps, musicians unload their
    instruments, it is a different space…HUDSON SQUARE was dominated by rats of all different
    sizes amongst the garages on Greenwich Street not baby strollers. These rats made their nightly
    pilgrimage to Vandam Street not uncommon to see 10-15 running in each direction. Human
    traffic has now edged out the rodent population; say yes to DSNY we will recreate the day when
    rats will once again flourish.
    Rat management is not a perfect science. What studies have been made? I’m worried about that.
    21. Barbara Siegel – Canal West Coalition
    Board of Canal Park Conservancy – resident since 1979 – 466 Washington Street
    How will this relocation compliment our North TriBeCa neighborhood as it is rezoned in a major
    way to residential…mostly families and businesses with families…well within the 400 foot limit.
    In 1988 we started to research the Triangle in the middle of Canal Street…it was a company
    parking lot…another parking lot is very frightening to us and counter to the effort, which we
    made to have, Canal Park created. When built, trees lined both sides of Canal Street, because of
    DSNY; every tree on the northern side has been cut down. That will kill them. The South side of
    Canal Street has tremendous residential use and are historic…what will the construction impact
    be over the three years of construction. What is the impact upon Canal Park? Consider
    alternatives more emphatically; separate into three sections into three different areas. We lived
    through 9/11 and having some much fuel is a horror and so insensitive to residents. Canal Park
    will be both a State and Federal landmark for your scoping document.
    22. Leonard Steinberg – Prudential Douglas Elliman
    On behalf of several owners…why be so pc (politically correct) about it. Shocked and amazed
    about scale of building, prime residential property potential…a fraud has happened here, City
    has rezoned to residential then turns their back on them; their real estate taxes should be
    refunded.
    Vibrant neighborhood, west 30th street, no man’s land, what brain cells are being used at City
    Hall and why aren’t they being used? Impact of trucks already is a fraction of a fraction of what
    will happen? What kind of deal has been set between the City and UPS? I feel it could be a dirty
    deal.
    23. Residents of 505 Greenwich Street
    Your proposal is detrimental to those residents who have revived HUDSON SQUARE. Paint a
    big red arrow over the fuel depot on top of the HOLLAND TUNNEL. What is your evacuation
    plan for us? Rezoning has tried to bring in redevelopment to help HUDSON SQUARE grow;
    you are taking 50 steps backwards and encouraging people to leave the area…inconsistent with
    all the efforts of people here…vehement in our opposition.
    24. Warren Underjohn
    Zoning codes are useful but I would suggest that any proper Public evaluation on the economic
    impact on this neighborhood. My estimate within 200 feet is 500,000 sf is $672,000,000 real
    estate value, this gives you $100MM TO $200MM destruction of wealth. Compare to 30th street
    or on a dock or a barge or any other alternative.
    25. Sidney Spanier – 27-year resident 466 Washington Street
    I live with the trauma of 9/11. The emergency command center was installed in 7WTC should
    never have built so close to a terror target…I will predict that because the fuel is stored
    underground, however no one envisioned airplanes going into the Two Towers. HOLLAND
    TUNNEL is a federal landmark; find a better location that is not a terrorist target.
    26. Sean Sweeney – Director of SoHo Alliance + CB2 Member
    HOLLAND TUNNEL air vent is on the Federal Register of Historic Places should be considered
    in DEIS.
    Where the trucks coming and leaving from? Quite true about rats, in Central SoHo the rats have
    been there since Hudson came. Large problem with rodents. A more western location would
    have brought out a larger crowd.
    27. Andrew Berman – Greenwich Village Society for Historic Preservation
    Inherent contradiction locating CD districts in the community’s from which they come, without
    creating a buffer through denying rezoning. Condo Hotels in M1-5 and M1-6 zones will remove
    any buffers. Landmark designation calendared for other buildings as well.
    28. Marc Amaruso – CB1 Chair TriBeCa Committee
    Not enough time to comment on DEIS…On a personal note, this is a really stupid idea.
    29. Frank Dobbs – 38 Dominick Street Property Owner since 1984
    Name HUDSON SQUARE comes from the HOLLAND TUNNEL quadrangle – then the area
    became a slum for 150 years.
    30. Joan Krowle –resident
    Noise questions – back beeping by trucks 24 hours per day is something to be considered.
    31. Ann Boyle – resident since 1979
    During 1999 meetings the washing off of the trucks – are the striped bass still endangered?
    Where does the water go?
    32. Desiree Alvarez – resident of 533 Canal Street
    Historic natures of the neighborhood 510-516 Canal Street buildings are landmarked and on the
    National Register.

  2. #152

    Exclamation Listen to Leonard

    Quote Originally Posted by CBTwo View Post
    January 31, 2007 DSNY Public Scoping Hearing at NYU – Written Comments Deadline
    Extended to February 20, 2006
    Over 200 members of the public in attendance, strong turnout
    I read the entire report, many good comments and observations - but my favorite is #22.

    22. Leonard Steinberg – Prudential Douglas Elliman
    On behalf of several owners…why be so pc (politically correct) about it. Shocked and amazed
    about scale of building, prime residential property potential…a fraud has happened here, City
    has rezoned to residential then turns their back on them; their real estate taxes should be
    refunded.
    Vibrant neighborhood, west 30th street, no man’s land, what brain cells are being used at City
    Hall and why aren’t they being used? Impact of trucks already is a fraction of a fraction of what
    will happen? What kind of deal has been set between the City and UPS? I feel it could be a dirty
    deal.

  3. #153

    Default

    That is my fav as well. He just sold a ton of people apts right there on Spring St so he must be pretty pissed about the situation. There definitely seems like there is a piece to this puzzle that is missing.

    I'm just waiting for the whole fuel on top of the holland tunnel thing to get out a bit...the NY Post will have a field day with that one

  4. #154
    Disgruntled Optimist lofter1's Avatar
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    I point out once again (and not to justify future storage on this site) that the existing garage on the small triangle just to the west of the Holland Tunnel Vents at Canal / West / Spring (and directly above the Holland Tunnel tubes) has been the storage site of ~ 5,000 gallons of petroleum fuels for decades.

    Fortunately there has not been an incident there. But it does beg the question: Is this a wise / prudent place to store large amounts of fuel?

  5. #155

    Default

    In answer to your question. No it's not.

  6. #156

    Default Wanted: Conspiracy Theories

    Just wondering why one neighborhood (Hudson Square and Block 596) is being pitted against another (Hudson Yards and Block 675)?

    Remember,
    in spite of all the approvals being in place on 29th-30th Street (2003-2005), DSNY specified the UPS site as the preferred choice in settling their lawsuit (10.27.05) with the Friends of Hudson River Park...

    All things being equal, the cost of construction for either site is comparable...notwithstanding some of the statements that have been uttered in front of CB2.

    Both UPS and the various owners uptown all want "market value" for their properties.

    Please, no conspiracy theories from earlier than 1999...

  7. #157
    Disgruntled Optimist lofter1's Avatar
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    I really think it comes down to Bloomberg et al want Hudson Yards to be big and business-y -- and they figured that the DOS site plan didn't fit in there. Hudson Square became the dumping ground -- the newly-rezoned Residential lots down there have been built-out to a large degree and most of the units have been sold -- so the tax money is already rolling in from those new residents. With just a few buildable lots in the immediate vicinity they probably figured that the DOS project wouldn't thwart too much new development down that way.

    And they figured they could fight off whatever opposition appeared.

    They may have misjudged on my last point.

    At least that's how it seems to me ...

  8. #158

    Default

    One building adjacent to a sanitation garage in Hudson yards would contain more residents than in all of Hudson Square. If a few dozen people in a majorily commercial/manufacturing area kill this project there is something seriously wrong with city planning.
    Last edited by Derek2k3; February 23rd, 2007 at 10:06 PM.

  9. #159

    Default

    I guess some people don't quite get it. It's not just a few dozen people that see a problem with the use of the UPS site and the adjacent lot being the refueling station for the DSNY trucks. If one can be so bold to say the potential is, "A time bomb waiting to go off." Do you think for one minute some PA cop is going to stop a terrorist from his dedication to Allah? Both of those officers have their hands full just trying to get drivers to stop clogging all the streets approaching the Holland Tunnel at the evening rush hours.

    If the cheapo airlines would have secured their cockpits for a couple of thousand dollars a plane prior to 9/11, would there have been a 9/11? It's called thinking ahead.

    BTW Derek: Do you actually know how many people live in Hudson Square? I don't, and I have lived in HS since 1973.

    So if Bloomberg wants his precious Hudson Yard projects to go through, it's just a matter of a waiting game. He will be out of office in a few years and sanity will return.
    Last edited by CBTwo; February 24th, 2007 at 12:21 AM.

  10. #160

    Default ???

    Quote Originally Posted by Derek2k3 View Post
    One building adjacent to a sanitation garage in Hudson yards would contain more residents than in all of Hudson Square. If a few dozen people in a majorily commercial/manufacturing area kill this project there is something seriously wrong with city planning.
    So you think putting that much fuel on top of the holland tunnel is smart city planning? How about putting that many trucks into an area that has serious traffic issues already? Good city planning? How about further polluting an area that already has poor air quality due to all of the traffic? Sound planning? How about utilitizing waterfront property for a sanitation garage? That good city planning?

    The residential comparison is a factor but seems like it pales in comparison to the safety and environmental issues

  11. #161

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    The Real Deal reports that at 523 Greenwich Street an 18-story, 22-unit luxury condominium will be developed on the site. Carlton Advisory Services arranged $17 million in bridge and acquisition financing for the project.
    This will nearly directly overlook the new garage.

  12. #162
    Disgruntled Optimist lofter1's Avatar
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    At 18 stories they would be lucky if the top 5 floors "overlooked" the new 140' - 150' DOS garage ...

    The rest of the floors in the new building would look directly across the lower building on Washington / Greenwich and at the walls of the garage.

  13. #163

    Arrow 523 Greenwich St.

    Here is the map view of the new Greenwich Street building.

  14. #164

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Derek2k3 View Post
    The Real Deal reports that at 523 Greenwich Street an 18-story, 22-unit luxury condominium will be developed on the site. Carlton Advisory Services arranged $17 million in bridge and acquisition financing for the project.
    This will nearly directly overlook the new garage.
    Those are some big units at basically one per floor...

    My assumption is that the garage will actually look nice (using the rendering for the west 57th street one as a guide) so having a view of it won't be a problem. That being said, this condo will likely get a few years of awesome views until the garage is actually built (if it ever gets built)

  15. #165

    Default

    The loss of the taxi repair garage is definitely a plus for the neighborhood. At a lot footprint of approximately 5,000 square feet those are going to be some big condos to say the least.

    How did they ever get the OK to build residential in that M1 area above Spring Street? Special zoning for the development?

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