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Thread: Dept of Sanitation Garage in Hudson Square

  1. #391



  2. #392


    Perhaps the area of the LES that's filled with parking lots that they've dreamed of developing for years. The Hudson River waterfront seems to be the worst place for it.

  3. #393


    Anything big enough with adequate streets?

  4. #394
    Disgruntled Optimist lofter1's Avatar
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    Jun 2005
    NYC - Downtown


    The logical alternative is the original site choice: 29th / 30th <> West Side Hiway / Eleventh Avenue.

    But once the Hudson Yards redevelopment went into gear a few years back that previously sanctioned plot was [mysteriously] taken off the table.

    When the rail yards are redeveloped just imagine the amount of DOS action that will be taking place in that area.

  5. #395


    Quote Originally Posted by ZippyTheChimp View Post
    Anything big enough with adequate streets?
    It's a huge site. I don't recall the actual address. Curbed runs a story about the site periodically.

  6. #396


    CD3 profile. The first map is color-coded land use. (PDF)

  7. #397


    I think he's talking about the Seward Park area by the Williamsburg Bridge. Even more people live around there.

  8. #398
    Disgruntled Optimist lofter1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    NYC - Downtown


    CB2 profile (proposed site): [pdf]

    CB4 profile (original site): [pdf]

  9. #399

    Default It now turns out that Block 675 was taken off the table for DSNY because of the ARC

    Ironic, now that Gov. Christie has scrapped the new tunnel under the Hudson River, that this was indeed the reason that Joe Rose and City Government derailed the DSNY two district sanitation garage at Block 675 (West 29th-30th Streets). It turns out that ARC needed the land one block below (Con Edison) and so Joe Rose cut a deal with Con Ed to pay rent for 10-15 years while waiting for Hudson Yards to be built.

    All the garbage being thrown out at us at Spring Street for a mega three district garage that is HATED by the locals, started with this decision.

  10. #400

    Default Iconic Salt Shed Required by Design Commission at Canal Street

    Construction of a Salt Shed, 297 West Street, Manhattan
    Resubmission subsequent to the Committee Meeting of 04/06/09:
    In response to the comments of the Public Design Commission, the design team has studied various designs seeking to “achieve an iconic, sculptural form”, and now presents the two designs illustrated here.
    Both illustrated structures:

    create strong, sculptural forms comprising “an object rather than a building”,

    create an “iconic presence” at this important gateway corner,

    are a solid contrast to the metal fins of the adjacent Manhattan 1, 2, 5 Garage,

    have moved further from the adjoining Holland Tunnel Vent Structure, to respect that structure and facilitate truck circulation to the salt shed,

    house and protect the specified volume of salt,

    enclose the stored salt as requested by the community,

    meet the functional requirements of the Department of Sanitation.
    The two proposed structures express different aspects of crystalline forms—the faceted nature of all crystals, and the extruded forms found in many crystals. The two concept designs, as requested, are presented in plans, elevations and study models, and shown from various views and in relation to the garage building.
    The Faceted Option 1
    This design encloses the volume in a series of faceted planes thrusting up toward West Street. The triangular facets break up the planes, add structural rigidity, and respond to the daily and seasonal movement of the sun around the structure. Lifting the major walls allows the recessing of the base to expand the sidewalk, enhance the pedestrian experience, lighten the perceived mass, and create dramatic views of the garage entrance framed by the cantilevered projection above.
    The projecting upper mass creates opportunities for varied sidewalk paving, as well as for lighting the underside of the cantilever. It also helps guide the salt pile toward the entrance for more efficient loading.
    The Extruded Option 2
    This design encloses the required volume in a series of angled, vertical planes rising toward West Street. These vertical planes rise directly from the ground, with an angled line dividing treatments of the surface texture and expressing the slope of the salt mound enclosed. The folding of the exterior walls adds structural rigidity, allows for the play of sunlight and creates opportunities for night illumination.
    This varied plan with vertical extrusions results in an irregular roof line as seen from the pedestrian level. The vertical emphasis relates to the Ventilation Building beyond.
    M 1/2/5 Salt Shed- PDC Conceptual narrative Page 1
    M 1/2/5 Salt Shed- PDC Conceptual narrative Page 2
    Concrete Versus Cladding
    The design team continues to study the treatment of the exterior surfaces of the salt structure—as either exposed, textured concrete, or a surface applied cladding. (In evaluating these options we have retained Reginald Hough, FAIA—a leading architectural concrete consultant.) The containment structure will necessarily be poured-in-place reinforced concrete due to the forces generated by piled salt possibly extending to a height of 50’ at the West St. end of the building.
    Exposed Concrete
    Textured and appropriately colored, exposed concrete can express the actual structure, reflect the formwork in which it was formed, and provide the solidity and permanence this prominent location suggests. In either the faceted or extruded buildings, appropriate formwork can minimize visible surface imperfections and accommodate the joints between horizontal pour lifts. The required form ties can be designed as either invisible or pronounced, with glass or ceramic inserts to add visual interest. Concrete is a robust material with the appropriate gravitas to stand up to this key location.
    While cladding the concrete walls can create a more consistent and finished surface, it can create long-term maintenance issues. Porcelain enamel steel panels may not survive in a salt environment. Swisspearl or similar composite materials are thin, require a metal supporting grid subject to corrosion, and may be subject to damage or vandalism. Ceramic tile can be applied directly to the concrete surface but may experience freeze-thaw movement and spalling in this unheated structure. Cladding will be costly, and entail many individual units subject to damage and subsequent lack of replacement.
    We look forward to our presentation to and discussion with the Commissioners.
    Richard Dattner, FAIA
    Mark Yoes, AIA
    February 23, 2010

  11. #401
    Disgruntled Optimist lofter1's Avatar
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    NYC - Downtown


    New design revealed for the Salt Shed set for the triangle at Spring / Canal / West Street:

    New $10 Million 'Taj Mahal of Salt' Sprinkled Onto Hudson Square


    They've dubbed it "Rock Hudson"

  12. #402
    Chief Antagonist Ninjahedge's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2003


    4. The width and height of the rolling door should be minimized to prevent airborne salt.
    Yeah, they will be using pickup trucks to do the dispersal.....

    I do agree that they need to minimize the chance of salt blowing around and stuff, but they are acting like this is a major EPA hazard....

    Oh, and the building looks too funky. We do not need an "Iconic" salt shed. We just need something that does not look like a warehouse.

  13. #403


    "Salt Pound"

    A palindrome of sorts.

  14. #404
    NYC Aficionado from Oz Merry's Avatar
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    Oct 2002


    Salt Shed Stirs Strife in Soho

    Edgy design for proposed salt shed meets resistance from residents

    Tom Stoelker

    A proposed concrete shed would contain 5,000 tons of salt. Courtesy Dattner Architects

    On November 15, the Public Design Commission approved an icon-striving design for a salt shed, effectively clearing the way for its crystalline form to emerge just north of Canal Street in Soho. Designed by Richard Dattner, the multifaceted concrete form with more than $10 million allocated toward its completion will be by far the most expensive salt shed yet. Michael Kramer, a lobbyist and member of the Community Sanitation Steering Committee, opposed the structure at the hearing, saying that the design was not the issue.

    “No matter how much money the city has decided to spend on this design project, it’s in the wrong place, and we wish they’d consider otherwise,” he said.

    Rendered view of a proposed salt shed on Manhattan's west side.

    Concerns of rock salt toxicity to people and trees in the nearby Hudson River Park persisted at the hearing, backed by a lawsuit filed by area property owners at the appellate State Supreme Court. The proposal includes a truck garage for the Department of Sanitation to be placed adjacent to the shed, exacerbating the not-in-my-hood outcry. Kramer argued that the design precludes an opportunity for adopting an alternate and more contained plan—known as the Hudson Rise and proposed in June 2009—that would include a rooftop park over the garage and eliminate the salt shed.

    Dattner said the two buildings were designed together as part of a cohesive whole. For the garage with a “diaphanous, scrim-like surface,” the firm teamed with WXY Architecture, but Dattner claimed the shed for himself.

    Opponents of the crystalline salt shed question the appropriateness of its location.

    The building takes up 7,700 square feet of the 14,575-square-foot site situated in a manufacturing district, and holds 5,000 tons of salt. Most of the mass remains above the sidewalk, fluted outward and rising to heights ranging from 43 to 67 feet. Various panels contain concave triangular facets. Dattner, whose father was a diamond cutter, explained that convex facets would have made the structure look as though it were bulging and ready to burst. At the base, a 4-inch moat of roughly textured glass contains a series of lights that skim the form from below. Little flakes of mica embedded into the cement are intended to play off car headlights rolling on West Street, as are slightly protruding glass plugs at the seams. Dattner said the overall effect would be like “a thousand nonpolitical points of light.”

    Nina Bassuka, professor of urban horticulture at Cornell, submitted a protest letter presented at the hearing. “With all the best of intentions, it’s impossible to stop rock salt from blowing, spilling, or leaking out of the storage shed, particularly when trucks are being loaded,” she wrote. Once the Public Design Commission takes a last look at the plans on December 12, Dattner expects construction to begin in 2012.

  15. #405
    Disgruntled Optimist lofter1's Avatar
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    Jun 2005
    NYC - Downtown


    Salt in the Wound, or Industrial Bright Spot

    DECEMBER 27, 2010

    Architect Richard Dattner had thought more than most about salt even before he was hired to design a multimillion salt shed in Hudson Square, one of Manhattan's toniest neighborhoods.

    On a visit to his birthplace in Poland with his father some years ago, he toured salt mines, which he described as an "incredible underground world." For the purposes of designing this shed to house rock salt—part of a Sanitation Department complex that's drawn the ire of high-net-worth neighbors like James Gandolfini and Kirsten Dunst—he read the book about the history of salt, called, appropriately, "Salt," and he's kept an enormous salt crystal on his desk.

    "It's clear, it's transparent, it looks like a big piece of broken glass," Mr. Dattner says. "Not only is it one of the most important of elements for human life, which can't exist without it, but even politically, under Gandhi in India, salt has had many, many meanings."

    A rendering of the multimillion-dollar salt shed planned for Hudson Square, at the corner
    of Canal and West streets. The project has stirred controversy among residents.

    The Sanitation Department, of course, needs storage facilities for the salt it uses to make slippery city streets less so in the winter. Opponents say the new department facilities are re-industrializing a neighborhood that was making a transition away from all that to luxury residential.

    To house this substance, Mr. Dattner has fashioned a faceted, enigmatic concrete structure that will rise at the corner of Canal and West streets, and which evokes a salt crystal, a glacier, and, from some angles, a beached ship. It is scheduled for completion in about two years.

    "On one level, it's just like a big salt container," Mr. Dattner says. "On the other hand, this particular corner, where Canal Street meets West Street and the Hudson River, is one of the more honorific and important intersections in New York City. Tens of thousands of people drive by here, so it was important to do something that would memorialize the site, so it could become kind of a landmark and enlist this mundane function to a somewhat higher level."

    Mr. Dattner describes the shed itself, which will rise to about seven stories and hold more than 4,000 tons of rock salt, as "a series of crystals" emerging from the earth.

    Like actual salt crystals, this one will taper outward, so that a pedestrian walking next to the shed will be able to look up and see it arching ever so slightly above her. The rough-glass sidewalk beneath the pedestrian will be illuminated from below.

    "The lights underneath will make this thing look like it's coming out of a molten pool of salt," Mr. Dattner says. The light will also glitter off shards of glass inserted in the holes left behind by the ties inserted (and later removed) to give form to the drying concrete.

    "This will sparkle in the daytime and at night will catch some of the light from below," Mr. Dattner says.

    The neighboring stainless-steel and aluminum-scrim sanitation-truck depot now under construction—and also designed by Mr. Dattner—will consolidate a series of garbage-truck garages into one depot on the site of a former UPS plant.

    Mr. Dattner doesn't have much sympathy for opponents of the Sanitation Department project.

    "It's controversial because a lot of people fortunate enough to buy condos in this manufacturing district felt, hey, this shouldn't be a manufacturing district anymore. Now that I have my condo here, how dare they put up a salt shed in this industrial zone," Mr. Dattner says. "Our buildings, the garage and the salt shed, will be the two nicest buildings down there."

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