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Thread: Dept of Sanitation Garage in Hudson Square

  1. #31

    Default

    Correct me if I'm wrong:

    1. HRP is crap because the city wants to put a garage across the street, to replace a garage that is in the park.

    2. DSNY sucks, so just eliminate it, and you won't need a garage.

    I hear speeches like this all the time at CB meetings. They offer nothing in the way of a solution, only present straw-man arguments that convince many people that these meetings are a waste of time.

    Since you've deemed any garage unnecessary, you don't have to come up with an alternative in Manhattan - a large space space free of traffic.

    Thank you for your input.

  2. #32

    Default Timing?

    Does anyone know the timing of all this? How long will it take DOS to get the needed approvals to move forward with construction?

    I think Downtowner makes a very good point about how we treat the areas around our parks. I can't really think of any other cities where they have something like what they are proposing. Now, we are on an island so the situation is a bit different but does the garage need to be right on the border of the park?

    CB2 - thanks for the info on OEM and the safety concern. How does one make sure that OEM is fully aware of the situation so they can get involved? Has anyone heard anything from the local politicians on the issue?

  3. #33

    Default Tow pound

    What about the city's tow pound? Do they have to leave their pier also? That would be nice to get rid of them permanently.

  4. #34

    Default DSNY-UPS Garage Interior Layout Drawings

    I found an RFP for engineering and design services on the City website dating back to December, 2005 (an estimated $6mm contract). This gives us an idea of how the second, third and fourth floors would lay-out. Wonder who won it?

    Why burden Hudson Square with Mid-Manhattan's (CD5) garbage?

    Why not move the salt-pile to CD3 under the Manhattan Bridge?
    It is under-utilized and more centrally located for CD's 1,2,3 and 5...
    Why so many private vehicles (non-mandated employee parking)?
    Attached Files Attached Files

  5. #35

    Default Think SMALL

    Thanks for the link Projectnyc.

    Where does UPS fit into this scheme? The basement floor is taken over by many small vehicles (I guess they ramp down to that level from an entrance at the southeastern part of the plan.) The same vehicles that I mentioned earlier which I presume is taxpayer subsidized free parking for DSNY employees.

    Also there appears to be only one way in and one way out for all the trucks, and it sure looks like it's on Washington Street at the northeastern part of the plan if I'm reading the plans correctly. That is going to be one tangled mess on Washington Street.

    The whole building could be made into a two story structure by excavating the portion in the basement marked with an "X" and using it for the offices that are currently on the second, third and fourth floors, Or store more trucks down there. Why is all that office space needed at that location? Doesn’t DSNY have their headquarters somewhere in one of the outer boros? If you eliminate two thirds of the office space, you eliminate the need for the space that the DSNY small vehicles take up and also those DSNY employees’ private vehicles.

    If you eliminate two of the three sanitation districts from the garage then the whole project is a reasonable fit. If one wants to talk about fairness, why should one district take on the storage problems of two other districts?

    One more thought. Since there needs to be some kind of relationship with UPS, why doesn't the City go into contract with UPS and use the refueling depot that UPS uses at Houston Street? A simple card would be used to read who's using how much fuel. At least it gets the fuel storage problem away from on top of the tunnels.
    Last edited by CBTwo; January 22nd, 2007 at 01:11 PM. Reason: more space

  6. #36

    Default Wait a minute, I'm confused

    Wait a minute here.

    After studying the plans for the new garage and what the total project’s scope is I must ask, “Where is the refueling station and the scrubby dub dub part of the plan? None of that is being shown in the “main” building. If it’s at the new facility on the triangle of Spring, Washington, and Canal streets. How are the trucks going to access that and then neatly go to bed in the garage?

    Are they going to go down Washington Street, turn right on Canal street, go through the facility, turn left on Spring Street, turn right on West Street, go up to Clarkson Street and turn right, and then make another right and proceed down Washington to the garage? HUH? Or will they come across Canal street on their maiden approach to access the refueling station?

    Or am I reading the whole plan wrong and the feed into the garage is from West Street? It would be nice if the planners at least show a north arrow on their drawings.

    This does not look like the original “concept” plan shown on page one of this forum. Page one shows a “Swiss cheese” approach to entering and existing the garage. But obviously that would not work because of the ramping problem.

    Once again I am confused.

  7. #37

    Default

    There are two entry/exits on Washington St and two on West St.

  8. #38

    Default Where?

    Where does it show the two entrances and exits on Washington and two on West Street? I'm not talking about the conceptual sketch on page one, I am talking about an updated drawing. Is there a link to a drawing that I am not seeing? I was using the link provided by projectsnyc.

    Those drawings do not show the ground floor plan so I was interpreting that plan by using the least wasted space and giving UPS the most available space on that floor.

  9. #39

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by CBTwo View Post
    Wait a minute here.

    After studying the plans for the new garage and what the total project’s scope is I must ask, “Where is the refueling station and the scrubby dub dub part of the plan? None of that is being shown in the “main” building. If it’s at the new facility on the triangle of Spring, Washington, and Canal streets. How are the trucks going to access that and then neatly go to bed in the garage?
    This information is in the scoping document.

    http://www.nyc.gov/html/dsny/downloa...s/MJLMN125.pdf

    The garage has its own refueling tank:
    The garage would have one 10,000 gallon diesel fuel storage tank and a tank each (1,000 gallons) for motor oil, waste oil and hydraulic oil.
    The truck washing and refueling facility (Block 595, Lot 87) would be reconstructed on the site of the existing MN1 Garage (14,575 square feet). The facility would house four 4,000 gallon diesel fuel tanks, one 4,000 gallon unleaded gasoline tank, one 4,000 gallon ethanol tank, one 2,000 gallon hydraulic oil tank, one 2,000 gallon motor oil tank, and one 1,000 gallon waste oil tank.

  10. #40

    Default Circulation plan

    Can some one show me a flow plan of this project? Any architectural office or city planning group could probably do this.

    Starting with where are the trucks coming from, and how are they getting here. Once here (assuming they are someplace on Washington Street below Houston) how and where do they go through the process? Do they refuel first or do they go through the wash first, where and how? After that where do they go? Are they teleported to the garage or what?

  11. #41
    Disgruntled Optimist lofter1's Avatar
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    Default

    The pdf file posted by projectsnyc is, as was pointed out, from 2005.

    This image is from what was recently released and shows the entrances / exits:


  12. #42

    Default

    Chimp thanks for the link.

    And yes I realize that fuel is being stored there. Your reference says it’s in the garage and then your other reference says it’s in the new washing and refueling facility.

    Where is the refueling facility? Someone has to make up their mind on this. Or are there two refueling facilities? I notice one has a large capacity gasoline and ethanol storage, so much for the “harmless” diesel fuel storage.

    I also, thanks for giving me a sanitation district map through the link, noticed that MN1 is in Tribeca, not in the Village. Why is the Village MN2 responsible for Tribeca’s MN1 garbage truck storage? Aren’t there a lot of spots down on the East river where Tribeca MN1 can park their trucks? We are talking fairness here aren’t we?

    BTW I noticed you live in Battery Park City, are there any available spots down there for this project?

    Lofter,

    Yes I see the plan and it sure looks to me that UPS is getting screwed big time with all the problems of having DSNY take up most of the first floor plan with their circulation flow with all those entrances. The diagram does not show the circulation plan for the facility, it only shows the entrances and exits. How does the processing of the garbage trucks work?
    Last edited by CBTwo; January 22nd, 2007 at 03:22 PM.

  13. #43

    Default

    At the risk of repeating myself, in a rational world, land with river and park views and adjacent to luxury housing is not used for sanitation garages.

    There is also a safety factor. Kids and adults on bikes, strollers and rollerblades are constantly using Spring St. to get to HRP. Since DOS uses the streets and sidewalks as parking lots and an extension of their facilities, people can get hurt. Two cyclists have been killed on the path in recent months. The park does not need to have its reputation tarnished further.

    The role of Spring & Canal St. as gateways to the park must be taken into account. Even without Trump, there is increasing residential density that needs to get to the park through Canal and Spring.

    Even if DOS get to use the UPS facility, the streets leading to the park must be kept clear for pedestrians and bikers/skaters.

  14. #44

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by CBTwo View Post
    Where is the refueling facility? Someone has to make up their mind on this. Or are there two refueling facilities?
    The answer is obvious.

    Why is the Village MN2 responsible for Tribeca’s MN1 garbage truck storage? Aren’t there a lot of spots down on the East river where Tribeca MN1 can park their trucks? We are talking fairness here aren’t we?
    When you flush your toilet, the crap is processed at the North River Plant. Why should MN9 be responsible for it. When you turn on your toaster, where does the power come from? Does MN2 have any power plants? MN3 has one. Why should they provide your electricity?

    Community districts are not autonomous municipalities.

    BTW I noticed you live in Battery Park City, are there any available spots down there for this project?
    No.

    My only interest is getting the garage off Gansevoort. I don't like the ides of the waste transfer station, but that involves barges, and must be on the waterfront. The garage involves trucks.

    Yours is not the only westside neighborhood that has to put up with city infrastructure. Besides the sewage plant, there is a subway power station, a fuel transfer station, and waste transfer station at W59th; a huge DSNY garage at W57th; a postal service repair garage, and DSNY repair garage on W24th.

  15. #45

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Downtowner View Post
    At the risk of repeating myself, in a rational world, land with river and park views and adjacent to luxury housing is not used for sanitation garages.
    At the risk of repeating myself, you have again avoided confronting the problem.

    Land with river and park view pretty much takes care of the westside. We could always put the garage in Harlem. It has Highbridge Park, but doesn't meet your third criteria of luxury housing.

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