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Thread: Dept of Sanitation Garage in Hudson Square

  1. #61
    Disgruntled Optimist lofter1's Avatar
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    Battle Day #1, one week from tomorrow:

    A public scoping session will be held on January 31, 2007, from 7:30 p.m. to 9:30 p.m. at Kimmel Hall, New York University, 60 Washington Square South, Rosenthal Pavilion, Tenth Floor.

  2. #62

    Default

    Isn't that the same floor that NYU's Community Affairs and School of Proctology are located?

  3. #63

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    Quote Originally Posted by lofter1 View Post
    Battle Day #1, one week from tomorrow:

    A public scoping session will be held on January 31, 2007, from 7:30 p.m. to 9:30 p.m. at Kimmel Hall, New York University, 60 Washington Square South, Rosenthal Pavilion, Tenth Floor.
    What happens at a session like this?

  4. #64
    Disgruntled Optimist lofter1's Avatar
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    Usually a fairly calm presentation with visual aids ...

    But given this project there could be some noise ...

  5. #65

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    These types of meeting are usually for the quiet old time Villagers who have nothing else to do except chat with their neighbors and share the memories of how their community was before it went down the tubes.

    I’m not sure what refreshments will be served if any, but it will probably be bottled water and finger sandwiches.

    Then again if the “element” shows up there could be some noise. But there shouldn’t be a problem if that rowdy group takes the advice of the late Tex Antoine (Mr. Weatherbee to those that remember) who quipped, "With rape so predominant in the news lately, it is well to remember the words of Confucius: 'If rape is inevitable, lie back and enjoy it.”

  6. #66
    Chief Antagonist Ninjahedge's Avatar
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    Um, I vote thumbs down on that last post. I believe that even if the quote fit, it was rather discordant and looking for confrontation.

    Also, the apparent lack of any confidence that anyone would be of any use at the meetings, either being "old and useless" or "noisy and discordant" indicates an overall lack of confidence in the system and a disheartening attitude that will only lead to arguements on the board.

    CB2, lighten up, will ya?

  7. #67

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by bigkdc View Post
    What happens at a session like this?
    Everything that happens from now until construction begins is in preparation for the Final Environmental Impact Statement, which is the necessary legal document covering all aspects of the project.

    The scope of work that was issued will be discussed at the Jan 31 meeting. There will be a presentation, and comments by attendees will be entered into the record. Generally, no issues are resolved at this meeting, just gathering of information.

    Down the road, there will be a Final Scoping Document, followed by a Draft EIS and a Final EIS. Public comment is taken on all of them.

    If you've never gone through the process, I recommend you attend the sessions. It's only a few nights over a year or more.

  8. #68

    Default

    Yeah it sounds interesting....I think I will try to check it out

  9. #69

    Default Tired Cliches from the NY TIMES about throwing stones

    NY TIMES
    January 28, 2007
    Big Deal
    Few Views Are Forever

    By JOSH BARBANEL
    DOUGLAS PINTER, a San Francisco real estate developer and the former chief executive of a long-forgotten Internet start-up, is used to the ups and downs of the business world, but his introduction to the pitfalls of New York City real estate has been a bit abrupt.

    Just last month, Mr. Pinter closed on his $2.4 million 10th-floor apartment in a notable new condominium, the Urban Glass House, the last residential commission of Philip Johnson, modeled loosely on the architect’s own home in Connecticut and marketed as a “modernist luxury residence.”

    Mr. Pinter liked the building’s light and airy look, even though its location, at Spring and Washington Streets, was in a grungy no-name land between Greenwich Village, TriBeCa and SoHo. It is across the street from ventilation shafts for the Holland Tunnel. Still, some upper-floor apartments have views to the south, and most of the apartments have views of the river to the north and west. At least for now.

    But in the last month, with most of the 40 apartments in the building sold or in contract, the New York City Sanitation Department said that it planned to take over a large parking lot just to the north and diagonally opposite the Urban Glass House. It would put up a garage as tall as a 15-story building and longer than a football field that promises to block much of the view of the river from many apartments.

    Having a view blocked by a newer, bigger building is an old story in New York. But seldom has the view from such a distinctive building been threatened so soon after the ink on so many sales contracts has dried. The building opened in October.

    Since then, Mr. Pinter and his neighbors, an affluent mix of models, minor celebrities and Wall Street executives who spent $2 million or more for their apartments, have been gathering information and organizing.

    Mr. Pinter, who calls himself semiretired, said he was looking for “like-minded residents” to join him at a hearing called by the Sanitation Department to discuss plans for the new garage.

    “It’s a shame,” Mr. Pinter said. “Invariably something would have been built there, but here is a building that was critically acclaimed architecturally, modest in size and scale and not gaudy, facing a consolidated sanitation garage.”

    The Sanitation Department plan was put forth in a 46-page document posted on the department’s Web site. The document was dated Dec. 28 but was first spotted in early January by residents of the neighborhood. The plans call for putting up a garage 140 to 150 feet high on the lot, which is bounded by Spring, Washington and West Streets and to the north by a large office and warehouse building. The Urban Glass House tops out at 137 feet.

    The garage’s ground floor would be used by the United Parcel Service, which now parks its trucks on the lot, while the rest of the building would be used by the Sanitation Department, consolidating three garages. A smaller garage just to the south of the parking lot and next to the ventilation shafts would be turned into a truck wash and refueling depot, storing 13,000 gallons of fuel and oil.

    Vito Turso, a deputy sanitation commissioner, said that the garage was needed to replace garages along the river in the newly established Hudson River Park. “We are trying to be as understanding and as good a neighbor as we can to that community,” Mr. Turso said, “recognizing that we still need to provide refuse collection, recycling and snow removal to that part of town.”

    Abe Shnay, a partner in the group that developed the Urban Glass House, said that buyers were still signing contracts and that most were aware that the parking lot could someday be developed. At one point, he said, there were rumors that a high-rise would go up on the site. “The reality is that on the upper floors the best views are to the south, incredible views of the upper harbor and the Statue of Liberty,” he said.

    But Michael Shvo, the president of Shvo Marketing, a real estate company that is not involved with the Urban Glass House, said he always tells buyers, “There are only two views in New York that are guaranteed: if you are on a park, or if you are facing a brick wall.”

    My Comment: It is 29,000 gallons not 13,000 gallons of fuel contemplated on top of the Holland Tunnel entrance (needs to get his facts right).

    The reporter fixates on looking west (scenic vistas) when he should be more interested in quality of life issues (proximity of residential to manufacturing) like traffic safety, noise and air quality. The City has been actively promoting the potential of Hudson Square and really can't have it both ways now either...the neighborhood has clearly reach a tipping point.

  10. #70

    Default Times article

    That column is generally pretty gossip oriented and rarely gets too deep into any issue. I think it is good that the story is getting out and I am sure as this thing proceeds the NY Times will write further articles about the situation.

    I have a feeling there will start to be a steady stream of letters to the editor on the subject.

  11. #71

    Default

    If Nino Vendome, the original developer would have been allowed to build the Johnson building originally designed for the site, "Architecture as Art," there would presently be a much larger stink from both residents and those that could appreciate fine architecture.

    Alas, it was too ambitious for some individuals in the community, and it became what it is, moderate and non threatening.

  12. #72

    Angry where is the common sense?

    Quote Originally Posted by projectsnyc View Post
    NY TIMES
    January 28, 2007
    Big Deal
    Few Views Are Forever

    “It’s a shame,” Mr. Pinter said. “Invariably something would have been built there, but here is a building that was critically acclaimed architecturally, modest in size and scale and not gaudy, facing a consolidated sanitation garage.”
    It is this NYwired member (thus far) that has said what best reflects my personal sentiments.
    Last edited by infoshare; January 28th, 2007 at 02:54 PM. Reason: typo

  13. #73

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Downtowner View Post
    It is customary when building a handsome new park, at least in the cities I know, to put amenities next to the park, such as hotels and residences, where people can enjoy the park and have views of it. Symbiotically, when you are in the park, the handsome residences that line the park form an important part of their charm and appeal. Likewise, elegant buildings at an entrance to a park define the experience before you even enter.

    I can't think of Regent's Park in London without the uniform elegant townhouses ...
    Those townhouses --and vast residential palaces like Chester and Cumberland Terrace-- were conceived as part-and-parcel of the development or Regent's Park. The Regent and his architect, John Nash, wanted to gift the public with the park, while making money from the housing, whose value was enhanced by the park.

    This self-same idea was trotted out recently in Brooklyn, where NIMBYs rose to oppose it. It's such a good idea, it should be adopted as the paradigm for park development in New York: the profits from the residential helps finance the park's construction and maintenance. There's no reason to mean-spiritedly oppose this because some benefit from it financially. I would hope some benefit finacially from every good act. No need for envy.

  14. #74

    Angry envy

    Quote Originally Posted by ablarc View Post
    There's no reason to mean-spiritedly oppose this because some benefit from it financially. I would hope some benefit finacially from every good act. No need for envy.
    Yes, this just one of the many unstated objections of the NY NIMBY. Glad to see you are not in the least bit fooled by the many nimby 'straw man' arguments: as so many all too often are.
    Last edited by infoshare; January 28th, 2007 at 03:14 PM. Reason: typo

  15. #75

    Default Fair Share

    I consider myself a tin man not a "straw man". Mark me stupid, but what is a "straw man?"

    I see several of the supporters of this garbage hut on this forum have no problem with sharing the reponsibility as long as it doesn't affect their little tree lined alcoves of the Village, Soho, and Battery Park City. They say "Share in the needed infrastructure." Well I don't exactly see them sharing a four block long UPS terminal in their little Shangri-La's. We have enough of our fair share of trucks in Hudson Square. The UPS trucks, along with the lines of idling buses feeding the FEGS center on Vandam street, as well on the northern end with FedEx contributing their fair share of trucks, is a bit over the limit for the fair share amount of a small but concerned neighborhood.

    Let those other NIMBY's have their "fair share" of all this "good for the city's benefit structures."
    Last edited by CBTwo; January 28th, 2007 at 06:30 PM.

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