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Thread: Sam Chang / McSam Hotels

  1. #466

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    The vast majority of these hotel sites are not zoned for residential, and don't have the appropriate footprints for office. They're being built as hotels because that's the highest and best use.

  2. #467

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    I'll add that, although tourism in NYC has been increasing steadily, there is no immediate shortage of hotel rooms.

    Occupancy rates average about 85% during the year, peaking at about 93% in the heaviest months. This is about where it was at the start of the century, and it fell under 80% during the years following 09/11.

    Hotel room construction is outpacing the increase in tourism:
    Richard Born, principal of BD Hotels, which owns and operates 25 hotels in New York, says he likes the city's long-term prospects but worries that the wave of new supply could put a damper on the market. He sees occupancy falling beginning next year because hotel supply is expanding 6% to 8% a year, while city tourism is rising at a slower rate of around 4% to 5%. "That could put downward pressure on daily rates or cause new hotel construction to slow," he says.


    Others are more optimistic. Mr. Meliker says that a better gauge for hospitality is the city's employment growth, which continues to look positive and will drive more business travel, he says. That means room rates can continue to climb even if occupancy stays the same, Mr. Meliker adds.
    http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/...21911381744056

  3. #468
    Fearless Photog RoldanTTLB's Avatar
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    We're talking about downward pressure on rates that exceeded an ADR of $280 in 2012. I don't see this as a real sob story for the current hoteliers. Considering the US ADR was $118 with occupancy of 68%, something tells me NYC hotels are doing fine, and it remains profitable to open WAY more of them. An excess of 1-2% a year will take over a decade to even approach the national average occupancy.

    Mind you, this is utterly divorced from the architectural merit, or lack thereof contained in these buildings.

  4. #469
    Build the Tower Verre antinimby's Avatar
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    ^ I think a better comparison would be to use the rates for New York's peers like Los Angeles, Chicago, San Francisco, Boston, Washington, etc.

    Using the average US rate, which may include, for example, motels in rural areas near interstate highways can be misleading.

  5. #470

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    @ Roldan:

    My post was about this...
    NYC has a big-time shortage of hotel rooms
    Not about the health of the hotel industry.

  6. #471
    Fearless Photog RoldanTTLB's Avatar
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    This suggests NYC is decimating its peers: https://www.hotelnewsnow.com/Article...r-hotel-demand

    I contend that NYC does have a big time shortage of hotel rooms if occupancy and prices are running as hot as they are compared to other major cities. From a market perspective, it is unlikely so many hotels would be under construction right now if investors did not believe the same. I recognize that does not make it "the truth," but it's also not a meaningless gauge.

  7. #472
    Crabby airline hostess - stache's Avatar
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    Prices run high here simply because everything including real estate is more expensive in this area, regardless of demand.

  8. #473

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    Quote Originally Posted by RoldanTTLB View Post
    You have to be careful in calling items peers just because they appear on the same list. The thrust of the article is CBD vs overall market.

    NYC hotel occupancy has always been high in comparison to the rest of the country, in line with world cities noted for tourism. Miami rate might appear low, but the demand is seasonal (although beginning to flatten out), so hotels have low occupancy during off-peak. NYC is only down below 80% in Jan and Feb.

    As Stache noted, all prices are high in Manhattan.

    Instead of ADR, a more useful measure might be change in ADR. In 2012 the national average change was 5%; in Manhattan it was 2%
    http://www.pinnacle-advisory.com/man...rket-2013.html

    I see a hotel market that can accommodate growth, but not a critical shortage of rooms.

  9. #474
    NYC Aficionado from Oz Merry's Avatar
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    There are some awesome buildings in that second photo.

    The existing 4-storey building is expendable but a modern mcsam monstrosity certainly won't fit in here either .


    Permits Filed: 337 West 36th Street, 18-Story Garment District Hotel

    By Stephen Smith


    337 West 36th Street, low-rise at center pre-demo, via Google Maps

    Another day, another limited service hotel permit filing in Manhattan’s Garment District. With zoning that forbids new residential development and a market where rents from new hotel rooms far exceed those from new office space, cheap hotel builders have dominated new construction in the Garment District.

    The latest permit filing for such a structure is for 337 West 36th Street, where a slim, 18-story hotel tower is planned for the north side of the street, between Eighth and Ninth Avenues.

    The owner is listed on the permit as Dun Zhang, but prolific skinny limited service builder Sam Chang, of the McSam Group, told The Real Deal that Zhang and others are his partners in the building. Last week a construction worker was crushed to death at another McSam project on an adjacent lot, facing the rear of 337 West 36th Street, at 324 West 37th Street.

    The hotel will have 72 rooms, per the permit filing, spread over nearly 25,000 square feet of space, rising on a narrow 25-foot lot, in place of a four-story brick building.


    337 West 36th Street (four-story brick building in center), image from Bing Maps

    Permits list the architect as Flushing-based Cheng-Yang Lee of Atelier CS. The location is tourist-friendly and the design will surely be low cost – something that the Department of City Planning and City Council brought upon themselves by leaving the area designated exclusively for commercial uses.

    http://newyorkyimby.com/2014/09/perm...ict-hotel.html

  10. #475

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    The existing 4-storey building is expendable but a modern McSam monstrosity certainly won't fit in here either .
    Look closer...that's a Poon (just as bad) right next door, to the west.
    Look near the top of the pic, just east of center, that's 37th, you can make out the Orange safety netting...
    from another McSam already going up- right next door to another, and across the street from another (yes both sides of this block).
    There are also two more planned directly north on 38th, plus the triF***ed cluster on 39th, 5 (soon to be 6) more on 40th...
    oh yeah and the new one on 8th.
    At this rate it's the "awesome buildings" that won't be fitting in- Hell, it wouldn't even surprise me at this point if they started replacing
    the one's that are left with more McSam $hit.

  11. #476
    NYC Aficionado from Oz Merry's Avatar
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    ^ Well spotted, 99 . I was actually going to say "...awesome buildings...except for that thing next door", but my attention was drawn away by the beauties om 36th instead.

    I defer to your superior knowledge of what's not visible in the photo .

    I hope your grim prediction doesn't come true.

  12. #477
    NYC Aficionado from Oz Merry's Avatar
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    Further to this post:




    A Bland Hotel Will Replace This 110-Year-Old New York Church

    March 23, 2015, by Hana R. Alberts


    Photo by Kate Leonova via PropertyShark.

    A prolific builder of uninteresting hotels—Sam Chang of McSam Hotel Group—is building another one on West 36th Street between Eighth and Ninth Avenues. But here's the rub: in order to put up a 20-story, 406-room structure, first he has to demolish the former Christ Church Memorial building. Built in 1905, the parish house and church served as a place for Presbyterian worship as well as a community center and theater until 1975, when the Postgraduate Center for Mental Health took it over. It's just a hair outside the Hudson Yards special district, so developing it is a boon. That's probably why Chang bought it for $50.8 million last year. Though demolition and new-building permits are still pending, a tipster writes in that the century-old former church is already nearing its end.



    Photo of the interior in 1909 via the New York City chapter of the American Guild of Organists.
    For more old photos and a detailed history of the building, head over to Daytonian in Manhattan.

    From the tipster:

    Nothing major has occurred on the exterior facade so far besides the removal of lighting fixtures. Crews have been working inside. I'm told they are prepping for demolition. Water, gas, and electrical systems are in the processes of being disconnected from the grid. Utility teams have been working in the street and sidewalk in front of the building. I'm hoping that the developer intends to (or is required to) incorporate the existing structure into the development of this site, but that does not seem likely.

    The tipster is sad to see the church go, and asked: "Is there anything that can be done for this building at this point?" Sadly, because the Christ Church Memorial building isn't landmarked, the answer is, "Not really."

    It says something that even notoriously pro-development Post writer Steve Cuozzo is sorry to see the church go; it was the site of his first job in New York City—at the nonprofit performing arts center that occupied the site in the early '70s, between its stints as the church/community center and the mental health clinic.

    Here are some pre-demolition photos from a brave soul:











    The Crumbling Building That Captured My Heart [NYP]
    The Block That Time Forgot [NTP]
    The 1905 Christ Church Bldgs-- 344 W. 36th Street [DiM]

    http://ny.curbed.com/archives/2015/0...ork_church.php

  13. #478

  14. #479

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    I concur.

  15. #480

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    What a sorry sight:










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