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Thread: 290 Mulberry at Houston - by SHoP Architects

  1. #151

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    Read the marketing information ( a link is at post #43)--the developers actually BRAG about in-floor heating, also called radiant heating.

    It's a simple construction, one that is used in a lot of residential buildings. It's seen in a lot of newer, upscale hotel bathrooms, as well. The luxury of stepping out of the shower and onto a warmed floor is intoxicating to some, a little benefit that probably adds $10/ day to your room. I had a room at Las Vegas' Bellagio a few years ago with a heated marble bathroom floor, and it was an indulgent luxury. In-floor heating is popular, especially in the South, for zone-heating applications.

    The floor plates are poured, the electric or hot water in-floor heating elements are added, (either embedded directly into the concrete, or resting just above the floorplate) then all of that is covered over in wood flooring ( or marble, or slate or whatever)-- for the hip, contemporary look the developers think people want.
    In order to heat the place on a winter's day, one must also heat the concrete slab that the elements are next to or buried into. Then, before radiating heat into the room, the wood flooring needs to rise to a certain temperature; it is super-inefficient and uses a hell of a lot of electricity.

    What kind of an electric bill could a tenant, who has to warm his 1,600 sq feet during a chilly New York Winter, anticipate???
    Last edited by Hof; January 22nd, 2012 at 04:17 PM.

  2. #152
    Disgruntled Optimist lofter1's Avatar
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    What if the radiant heating is connected to a hot water heating system powered by a boiler (basically an extension of the radiators, installed in the floor)? But on second thought that means the boiler would have to be kept running year round. If it's electrically powered then the price to operate will be crazy.

  3. #153

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    I wonder if the building is on a steam line???
    A lot of the older Manhattan buildings heat their apartments and stores directly from a live municipal steam line. Think Big Allis...Steam's been around since New York was a baby. Entire neighborhoods came into being because of their proximity to Municipal steam lines. Miles of 130-year old, high pressure steam pipes are laced under the City's streets . You see their damp, smoky presence bleeding off pressure all over town, momentary white tendrils drifting upwards on the traffic's passing breeze, slithering out of manholes and grates like Casper, The Urban Ghost. Ocassionly, one blows up and tears through the tarmac, causing a boiling hot, Yellowstone-like eruption on a dense City street that parboils anything within a hundred yards and pushes cabs around like hot rubber duckies.

    --Steam enters the building from a main line, (generated by a few steam plants located on the riversides) and is forced into smaller and smaller pipes under pressure, compressing into hot water, then usually into a basement boiler where it's stepped down. It circulates, warming the radiators throughout the building through heat convection, thus warming (somewhat) the dwelling units. Most of the steam lines are around Midtown East and points South, so that section of 7th Ave or Houston could be fed from a nearby generating station. I'll have to burn up some Google pixels and try to find a steam pipe map of Manhattan. Never tried that.

    If steam is acually available for 290 Mulberry, it would be a very efficient means of filling the in-floor heat coils with the hot water they need, thereby trashing one of my ideas about the building. (ie: Steam=hot water without the homeowner's electric bill landing on four figures every month during the Winter.).
    Last edited by Hof; February 3rd, 2012 at 10:57 AM.

  4. #154

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    And HOF you are right about the wood floors: I thought you referring to sub floor being wood joists. The finished floor is solid hardwood over a reinforced concrete slab sub floor.

    LEED indeed. LOL

  5. #155
    Disgruntled Optimist lofter1's Avatar
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    I live nearby and haven't ever heard talk of steam lines beneath the streets down here. I think that innovation, for the most part, came a bit later, after much of this area had been developed (which generally runs from 1830 - 1900).

    Con Ed started supplying steam to NYC buildings in 1882. Now the closest steam generating plant to Little Italy area is on the East River at 14th Street.

    The original steam generating plant was downtown, on a plot where the WTC site is now.

    "Today, Con Edison operates the largest district steam system in the United States. The system contains 105 miles of mains and service pipes, providing steam for heating, hot water, and air conditioning to approximately 1,800 customers in Manhattan."

  6. #156

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    Quote Originally Posted by lofter1 View Post
    More from CURBED on 290's new cantilevering neighbor ...



    East Houston Tumor To Be Red, Tiered and Terraced

    CURBED
    April 22, 2008
    by Pete



    Pity the poor residents of 51 East Houston Street. A bit of digging around reveals
    that the owner there goes by the mysterious name of Sultan's DaVinci Ltd.
    When we posted the news about the tumorous growth rising over that little
    walk-up some readers couldn't believe their eyes. But one guest commenter
    had no doubts and kindly directed us to the Arpad Baksa Architect website
    for a look at what's to come. And then the mystery deepened.



    There it is, 14 stories of stepped-back bright red brick, with windows
    amiss and some big cross braces propping it up atop the worn old bricks of
    Number 51. However, Baksa's site says "15 Residential Units," which is quite a
    difference from the "41 Dwelling Units" shown on the project's application at DOB.
    Either way, this new one isn't some dinky little thing like those teeny dollhouses
    around the corner on Mott Street. It's big and bold with terraces out front,
    sitting high above the madness of Houston Street. The west facade seems to
    offer a big blank wall, apparently a match for another one going up on the
    corner at 290 Mulberry. Out back, a tier of balconies will face the trees and
    quiet of Old St. Patrick's Cathedral down the block. A little bit of this and a
    lot of that, all made possible by Sultan's DaVinci, who is probably a real pussycat.
    During the upcoming months of noise and construction the residents of
    51 East Houston will certainly know who to thank.


    The north exposure (L), the south exposure (R) and blank walls on the sides.


    The new neighbor at 290 Mulberry, turning a blank face to the Baksa site.

    · A Tumorous Neighbor for SHoP and Kopp [Curbed]
    · Portfolio > On the Boards > 49-51 East Houston [Arpad Baksa website]
    · SHoP Piling On the Bricks at 290 Mulberry [Curbed]
    http://www.arpad-baksa-architect.com/
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  7. #157
    Disgruntled Optimist lofter1's Avatar
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    Horrible.

  8. #158
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    On Sunday, workers were cleaning the inside of windows at 290 Mulberry.

  9. #159
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    Yeah, I walked by on Saturday afternoon and it was clear they were back at work over there. The site over on 3rd Ave and maybe 11th streets was also above ground. I went for a long walk. Work was going on at some other long dormant site over by Grand St as well I forget which.

  10. #160

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gulcrapek View Post
    On Sunday, workers were cleaning the inside of windows at 290 Mulberry.
    Still empty apartments in there: all these years later, and in THIS strong market? I don't know the 'whole' story, actually only what is available on this thread, but it sure seems like the 'financials' on this development is a total fiasco. It would be interesting to get all the details on just how this project has gotten derailed: but, good intel on this one is not easy to obtain.

    As said before, this is IMHO a 'fine looking' architectural design - particularly the wavy brick facade - but it obviously takes
    Much more than a cool modernist design to to sell-out this development.

    Anyone from shoP who may care to comment would be great.....

  11. #161

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    NoLita Condo Project Reborn as a Rental

    By C. J. HUGHES

    Published: July 5, 2013


    Water leaked in and wrecked boilers. Stucco peeled. Vandals stole copper pipes.


    But after suffering the indignities that can occur over years of sitting vacant as a stalled condominium project, 290 Mulberry Street, at West Houston Street, is bouncing back — this time as a rental.
    Called the Mulberry House, the 12-story tower offers 9 units, all of them 3-bedrooms, in a configuration that the building’s promoters say is among its most appealing qualities. “There’s never been a lot of new developments in New York at that size, and there’s a huge demand for them,” said Lucie Holt, an agent with Town Residential, which is handling the marketing.


    http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/07/re...ntal.html?_r=0

  12. #162

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