Page 2 of 11 FirstFirst 123456 ... LastLast
Results 16 to 30 of 162

Thread: 290 Mulberry at Houston - by SHoP Architects

  1. #16
    The Dude Abides
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    NYC - Financial District
    Posts
    4,418

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ablarc View Post
    Why do banks think they need so many branches?
    Quote Originally Posted by MidtownGuy View Post
    This is getting really ridiculous now. I bet everyone who lives on that block, whatever kind of place they live in, run into Village Farms when they need something quick. Now it will be gone and another Wachovia moves in. When will someone on this forum agree with me that the only solution to this cancer is REGULATION. Yes, I said it, you worshippers of the free market. Limit the damn bank branches. Enough is enough. Or should we sit around on our asses a little longer? San Francisco has the solution and New Yorkers should take heed.
    I don't think regulation is the answer.

    The same issue came up in this thread. Macreator's response is correct: like most things in business, bank branches are cyclical. We're probably reaching the end of this latest upturn right now.

    The Real Deal published an article about this trend two and a half years ago: http://www.therealdeal.net/issues/Ju...1089814875.php.

    More from the Economist: http://www.economist.com/surveys/Pri...ory_id=2570075

    Bottom line: there's no reason to panic. Manhattan will not be completely overrun by bank branches, for rather obvious reasons.

  2. #17
    Forum Veteran MidtownGuy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    East Midtown
    Posts
    6,832

    Default

    Well Pianoman, I strongly disagree with you and macreator on this. And I don't like the idea of waiting around for possibly years(or not years, who knows that's the problem) to test your hypothesis. It's a quality of life issue that we will just have to disagree on.
    Singing the praises of the free market and unregulated business is wonderful and works well as a sound bite, but the fact is that the economy, business practices, etc are regulated in our society, often for good reason. We have zoning laws, building restrictions, a zillion things in our society that are regulated. Sometimes good, and sometimes bad. In my opinion, and in the opinion of a growing number of people, this situation with the ground floors in new buildings is not acceptable. For young people who know no different, it's impossible to understand fully my argument.
    "Competiton" is a loaded word with lots of different levels of meaning. And like regulation, there is good competition and bad competition. In my opinion, when rents or certain leasing preferences squeeze out long-standing businesses that are vital to everyday people trying to live their everyday lives, such as a bodega to grab something you need at a decent price, or a simple eating establishment, it's time for some of that societal regulation to extend to this issue. Plenty of people on this board will disagree with me, but when I read about the regulations in San Francisco, another iconic American city, they sound well-reasoned and fully compatible with capitalism as we practice it.
    Since it's cyclical, as you say, so will be the need to enforce whatever reasonable limits that might be enacted.
    You say don't panic. A subtle way of framing the opposite position on the issue as irrational. It isn't panic, it's well founded concern in my view, and of course it isn't just about bank branches.
    Last edited by MidtownGuy; January 16th, 2007 at 12:57 PM.

  3. #18
    Banned Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Park Slope, Brooklyn, NY
    Posts
    8,113

    Thumbs up

    ^^

    What he said. ::clap, clap, clap::

    My sentiments EXACTLY.

  4. #19
    The Dude Abides
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    NYC - Financial District
    Posts
    4,418

    Default

    Midtown: Trust me, I'm not just saying what I'm saying because it works well as a soundbite. And I don't think my youth is a limiting factor, because up until relatively recently, I was as strong a believer in government regulation as you are. My views on this have changed though, and I think regulation, especially the kind you're advocating, is very anti-capitalist, and in many cases, unjustified.

    A quick word about the free market and competition: I just can't accept that independent stores fail because of any reason other than simply being outperformed. If you have a business that's been a neighborhood staple for years, and a chain store comes along and steals your customers, how can you blame someone for that? One place is clearly better - at offering better selection, better prices, better service, and more convenience. It should win, because otherwise, the underperforming business is just being subsidized out of sympathy. Moreover, if it seems like an entire industry is disappearing in a neighborhood, not to worry - demand will eventually force it to return. Just look at how many Whole Foods are opening up all over the city in new condo towers: people need to shop for groceries, and the free market is providing it. Meanwhile, how many years have Manhattanites been lamenting the dearth of decent-sized, decent quality grocery stores?

    You bring up regulations on quality of life, but whose quality of life are we protecting? I can guarantee you, for every person like yourself who benefits from regulation of chains and banks, there will be at least another who doesn't benefit. And, if you do enact limits, who do you target, and where do you set the limit? Is it every bank, or just the bigger ones? And how do you guarantee you'll find small bodegas to move into retail spaces that are just simply too expensive? Are the public tax dollars going to be used to subsidize that as well?

    You bring up zoning and building restrictions as an analogy. I'm equally opposed to this; in fact, I started a whole thread on it not too long ago. It doesn't mean I'm against government oversight: people need to be kept in line, because there are a lot of crooks out there. But outlawing a company from opening another bank branch just because it's not a funky clothing store or a deli...what's the justification for that?

    Finally, I'm not trying to deliberately paint your concerns as irrational, but a lot of the time, it really does sound like you're having a fit about this issue, and I don't understand why. Actually, scratch that - I do understand, but I can't agree with you.
    Last edited by pianoman11686; January 16th, 2007 at 08:13 PM.

  5. #20
    Forum Veteran MidtownGuy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    East Midtown
    Posts
    6,832

    Default

    Your arguments sound okay in a strictly abstract sense, but we're dealing in reality here. That reality is, without regulations your life would be an unrecognizable mess to you. Your reasoning sounds like Ayn Rand zealotry.
    Moreover, if it seems like an entire industry is disappearing in a neighborhood, not to worry - demand will eventually force it to return.
    dude, what planet do you live on? That sounds like some kind of blind religious faith.

    But outlawing a company from opening another bank branch just because it's not a funky clothing store or a deli...what's the justification for that?
    That is a shameful misrepresentation of the position and bordering on straw man.

    Finally, I'm not trying to deliberately paint your concerns as irrational, but a lot of the time, it really does sound like you're having a fit about this issue,
    Does uncompromising disagreement with your position qualify as a fit? If so, I'm guilty.

    I don't understand why. Actually, scratch that - I do understand, but I can't agree with you.
    I really don't think you understand, but you have yourself convinced that you do. Whatever, I'm not going to piss back and forth all night with you on this.

  6. #21
    The Dude Abides
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    NYC - Financial District
    Posts
    4,418

    Default

    I don't want to go back and forth with you either, which is why I'll only ask one thing:

    Why do you think my "bank branch vs. bodega/funky clothing store" example is a straw man? Isn't that exactly what you want to see happen - government stepping in and telling a landlord he can't rent out to a bank or Duane Reade, and has to have an independent small business on the ground floor?

  7. #22
    Build the Tower Verre antinimby's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    in Limbo
    Posts
    8,976

    Default

    Governments do that all the time.

    From not giving a place a liquor license or in some cases we've seen, forcing the landlord not rent to a club or bar.

    Why should banks be treated any different then?

  8. #23
    Disgruntled Optimist lofter1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    NYC - Downtown
    Posts
    32,654

    Default DOB Permits

    DOB shows that on 2.2.07 a Permit was issued:

    Application filed to erect temporary fence for future demolition

    No actual Demo Permit has yet been issued.

  9. #24

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by antinimby View Post
    Governments do that all the time.

    From not giving a place a liquor license or in some cases we've seen, forcing the landlord not rent to a club or bar.

    Why should banks be treated any different then?
    Good point.

    Hard to argue with that one, except perhaps to say the government shouldn't be dictating location of liquor, bars and clubs either.

  10. #25
    Build the Tower Verre antinimby's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    in Limbo
    Posts
    8,976

    Default

    ^ Oh I agree.

    I was just saying what's really happening right now as in the case of the Zinc condo project, where community groups through the government pressured the developer to not lease to clubs or bars as a stipulation for their approval of the project.

  11. #26
    Disgruntled Optimist lofter1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    NYC - Downtown
    Posts
    32,654

    Default

    If y'all were to live on a block where all of a sudden 20 bars open within a couple of years you might think differently.

  12. #27
    Forum Veteran MidtownGuy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    East Midtown
    Posts
    6,832

    Default

    The point is we don't want 20 bank branches either.

  13. #28

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by lofter1 View Post
    If y'all were to live on a block where all of a sudden 20 bars open within a couple of years you might think differently.
    Quote Originally Posted by MidtownGuy View Post
    The point is we don't want 20 bank branches either.
    Yup, that's the point. Sauce for the goose, sauce for the gander.



    Oh ... I guess bars are a disreputable use, while banks ...



    Btw, I think lofter is aging into sympathy for the NIMBY. Just one word, young man: ... Earplugs!

  14. #29
    Disgruntled Optimist lofter1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    NYC - Downtown
    Posts
    32,654

    Default

    I wore them for the first time last summer when Con Ed was rebuilding the underground electric boxes on the street below my window (jackhammering 10PM - 4AM for 1 + month) ...

    They give me ear aches

  15. #30

    Default Ground floor is the key issue.

    I find the facade treatment to be more of the same graphics from the same (often good) architects. The corner windows have a selling potential, but the other windows do nothing, theyre just staggered. So what.

    Balconies, bringing the residents onto the facade... there are many ways of activating a facade so that it becomes a responsible contributor to its neighborhood. The watchful eye, the residents subtly engaging with the street. The first floor as a lively sidewalk engager. These are urban issues more important and far deeper than the free-market religiosity.

    And one shouldn't underestimate the value of a deli or its dissappearance. It is literally the extended pantry of any New Yorkers kitchen. These privately owned businesses are a cornerstone of why one lives in New York in the first place. Some of the main cornerstones of a neighborhood. If it takes a regulation, regulate it. Even the residents of the tower would use a deli a lot.

    So the first floor is of course the big issue here, window patterns or brick colors, box or not box are peripheral issues. The first floor can fit 2-3 small privately owned businesses and it should. A corner building on Houston? Of course it should load up with small privately owned businesses. By regulation of course. Why not? Otherwise unwise speculators will ruin the characters of the city that is constantly fighting this brain-dead market mediocrity. Yes there is life outside NPR's "marketplace" to explain how a neighborhood may need an investment.

    The second floor is also an issue. From a street level point of view, every building needs to contribute to its street, and the second floor is key.

    So if I gave the building a grade, I'd give it a "C."

Page 2 of 11 FirstFirst 123456 ... LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 51
    Last Post: February 22nd, 2014, 10:01 PM
  2. The Porter House - 366 West 15th - Conversion/Addition by SHoP Architects
    By Kris in forum New York Skyscrapers and Architecture
    Replies: 20
    Last Post: February 1st, 2005, 02:37 PM
  3. New Soho Condos on Houston
    By Zoe in forum New York Real Estate
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: July 18th, 2003, 10:47 AM
  4. 55 West Houston aka 160 Wooster
    By mc in forum New York Real Estate
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: July 15th, 2003, 11:19 AM
  5. Harlem Health Center - Perkins Eastman Architects
    By Derek2k3 in forum New York Real Estate
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: March 25th, 2003, 08:59 PM

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  


Google+ - Facebook - Twitter - Meetup

Edward's photos on Flickr - Wired New York on Flickr - In Queens - In Red Hook - Bryant Park - SQL Backup Software