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Thread: Mt. Sinai Center for Science & Medicine - by Skidmore Owings & Merrill

  1. #16
    Crabby airline hostess - stache's Avatar
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    Jun 2004
    Nairobi Hilton

    Default On a side note -

    Quote Originally Posted by krulltime View Post

    "Mount Sinai is also totally reconstructing one of its existing buildings (120 feet in height) located at 5 East 102nd, between Madison and Fifth Avenue to consolidate and modernize its ambulatory and neighborhood health care programs....This project will begin construction in the fall of 2006."
    I spoke to a Sinai employee today and he said the above building will house most of the hospital's clinics, except for dental.

  2. #17


    Mount Sinai hopes to sell site for 32-story condo tower

    Mount Sinai Hospital has retained Newmark Knight Frank to sell the apartment building at 1212 Fifth Avenue and an adjacent parcel that can be developed with a transfer of 315,000 square feet of development rights to create a 32-story residential condominium tower.

    1212 Fifth Avenue is a 15-story prewar apartment building on the southeast corner at 102nd Street and it contains 76 units "primarily occupied by Mount Sinai entities and employees who will vacate apartments and office and professional space as directed by Mount Sinai."

    The hospital says that "the apartments not occupied by Mount Sinai entities or employees (the 'non-Mount Sinai tenants') are either rent-controlled (9 units) or rent-stabilized (3 units.). The building is currently heated by steam from Mount Sinai and "the successful bidder must arrange a new heat source for 1212 Fifth Avenue because the Mount Sinai steam will be cut off at a scheduled date to be agreed with Mount Sinai at signing of a purchase, sale and development agreement."

    The new building will have "certain Mount Sinai mechanical facilities to be located in the base" and the developer "will receive fee title to all space except the space reserved for Mount Sinai for such mechanical facilities." Contiguous and adjacent to the new building will be a planned Mount Sinai Center for Science and Medicine, which is a separate project. The new building will have a courtyard for pedestrian and vehicle access between it and 1212 Fifth Avenue, according to the hospital.

    The 16-story apartment building at 1200 Fifth Avenue on the northeast corner at 101st Street was sold by the Mount Sinai Medical Center to Joseph Nakash, Joseph Chetrit, Lloyd Goldman and Mann Realty for about $61 million.

    The building is just to the north of the famous medical center, which had owned the rental apartment building for about three decades.
    The building was erected in 1928 and designed by Emery Roth, the architect of such major residential skyscrapers as the San Remo and the Beresford, both on Central Park West, and 870, 880, 993 and 1125 Fifth Avenue.
    The new owners of the building began a condominium conversion. The building has 59 apartments and when it was sold in 2004 about half of them were occupied by tenants covered by rent control and rent stabilization. By mid-2006, about a third of the units had been sold with prices for studio units starting at about $760,000, two- and three-bedroom apartments with prices between about $1,400,000 and $4,700,000 and five-and six-bedroom units with prices starting at about $5,500,000.

  3. #18


    Are you kidding me? This building has the perfect fit for 5th avenue on the park. There is so much garbage up there. Nothing amazing, but I (and I know most others) hate to see buildings that "fit" NY being destroyed.

  4. #19
    Forum Veteran macreator's Avatar
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    Feb 2005
    East Midtown


    I'm a little confused. From the article it sounded like the current apartment building is being retained and an adjacent parcel is being developed.

  5. #20
    Forum Veteran MidtownGuy's Avatar
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    Mar 2005
    East Midtown


    Actually, I became confused as well. I think they mean to tear that lovely building down. Such a shame if it's true.

  6. #21


    No 1212 5th Ave is not being demolished. I think the article was just reporting its transaction.

  7. #22


    Yeah I wasn't sure myself, but I figured I'd post it.

  8. #23
    Crabby airline hostess - stache's Avatar
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    Jun 2004
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    The way I read it 1212 (at 102nd. St.) will be sold with the idea that it will be torn down. 1200 (at 101st. St) was previously sold and is going condo.

  9. #24
    Build the Tower Verre antinimby's Avatar
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    Sep 2004
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    No need for sad faces. 1212 ISN'T going anywhere.

    The lowrise, unremarkable 1970's building behind 1212 is the one that's going to get replaced by "a new 32-story" tower.

    They're going to transfer 1212's air rights over to that site, so 1212 will be safe forever.

  10. #25

    Default 1212 Safe?

    1212 may be safe, but roughly 30 of the 76 apartments face east and will have no view out the window except for the face of the massive new tower. I pity all the buyers of condos at 1200, which Sinai sold last year, who were not told of Sinai's plans. Many of them were looking forward to the views toward the east that they thought they were purchasing. 1212 has been a wonderful building to live in for our family for many years. It will be interesting to see how that changes in the coming period. I'm not enthusiastic about this sale.

  11. #26

    Default 1212 Still Unsold

    Luckily, the developers who have been considering the purchase of 1212 have been intelligent and have decided against the purchase. Any condo going up east of 1212 would need to be 25 stories high before owners would have any view of the park. Madison Avenue is about 40 feet lower than Fifth Avenue at this address, so you'd need to be on the 20th floor just to be even with 1212's 16th floor penthouse, then you'd need another 50' to have a view of the far side of the park. So the only condo that would really have a park view would be the top floor or so.

    The other views from the condo would be the massive ugly Annenberg Tower to the south, an overhauled parking garage with a new facade to the north, and the projects to the east. For my money, these aren't the views I'd purchase and I certainly wouldn't want my condo to be directly over a hospital research laboratory given the potential toxic exposures.

    As for a direct sale of 1212, if I were the buyer, I'd want to be certain that Sinai wasn't going to build a tower directly behind it so that apartment owners wouldn't lose their eastern exposures (for some owners, that's all they have). Otherwise, why bother?

  12. #27


    Not sure I understand your points.

    Views are rarely critical to a site's value. Park Avenue is arguably the most prestigious uptown street and has limited views. Tribeca and Soho are arguably the most prestigious downtown areas and have even more limited views.

    As for the residents not wanting a luxury condo as neighbors, I think you're completely wrong. The potential buyer of the existing building will likely insist the proposed building be built as soon as possible, because it will make the existing units much more valuable. Nothing attracts wealth like existing wealth.

    Not sure how to respond to your research lab comment. I have never before heard an educated person express alarm towards medical uses as downstairs neighbors. In fact, medical uses are usually the preferred uses for the lower floors of the most prestigous buildings in the city. Take a stroll down Park Avenue.

  13. #28


    1) Research labs are very different from other medical uses. A doctor's office is one thing. A research lab is another. I spend some of each day within a pharmacology lab. It's not the sort of place I'd want a floor or two below me.

    2) Interesting point about Park Avenue. I think most people would say that Fifth and CPW are far more prestigious given their views of the Park. Park Ave may represent old money, but on Fifth and CPW you get your money's worth. But I certainly understand your point.

    3) Your other point is fascinating: nothing attracts wealth like existing wealth. That would represent a foolish fiscal decision. Wealth is attracted to opportunity, which usually is found (from a real estate perspective) in poor areas that one thinks will become wealthy within a reasonable timeframe. Wealth now is attracted to parts of the City like Harlem. The last place I'd invest is where others have already invested. It's a bad idea in the stock market, and just as bad in real estate. (And in this case, you end up with no view).

    I think in a number of ways, we're looking at this differently. After over 40 years of living in NYC, I'm willing to pay for only several things: Noise free living in an apartment with plaster instead of drywall; a view of the rivers or Central Park; proximity to the subway; sunlight from multiple angles (goes with the view). Everything else is secondary. The actual address doesn't matter at all.

  14. #29

    Default 1212 Sale Falls Through

    As I predicted, the sale of 1212 fell through due to the failure of the zoning board to approve what was a ridiculous plan. The zoning board got this one totally correct and denied the plan to put up a sliver condo tower east of 1212. Instead, Mt. Sinai will build a perfectly adequate 8-10 story science building on the east third of the block. They're now saying 10-12 stories, but they'll probably make do with about 8 stories.

    Back to 1212. Now it's a question as to whether Mt Sinai Medical Center will sell the building alone. Given how much trouble the folks who purchased 1200 have had selling the units there, and given the current economy, I suspect Sinai will hold onto 1212 for the time being.

    This has worked out well for all involved. The 1212 tenants will still lose their eastern view, but at least they won't lose the sunlight and view of the sky that they'd have lost had the sliver condo been built. Sinai gets their science building. And all are happy.

  15. #30


    The sliver plan is as of right. The air rights will be sold. Permits have already been submitted to DOB.

    I don't know how your are connecting the 1212 site with the sliver site. They are separate sites.

    I also don't know what you mean by "zoning board". Are you referring to BSA (Board of Standards and Appeals)? They have no jurisdiction on the matter.

    The zoning envelope already allows for the transfer of air rights.

    The science building you are referring to has been planned for quite some time and is independent of the sale of the air rights.

    Also, what do you mean by "sunlight and loss of sky"? Am I missing something? How would a tall, skinny building block more sunlight and sky than a short, squat building? Using an apples to apples comparison, sliver towers do the least possible damage to light and air.
    Last edited by ASchwarz; April 22nd, 2008 at 12:28 AM.

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