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Thread: Race for the White House

  1. #3181


    ^ What Optimus Prime said.

    The democrats seem to think that running on their own virtue is the same as running against the evils of the republicans. They are not the same. One reason Obama is unable to rail against Bush's misdeeds is the democrats ongoing complicity. Obama isn't running against the enablers and compromisers in his party (Pelosi et al.) as a 'reformer' -- he's running as their standard bearer. He missed his chance at being able to directly attack Bush and his perverse violations by capitulating to his own corrupt party on the FISA immunity vote.

    What good is connecting McCain to Bush when Bush is never directly called out?

    "Oh George, you irrepressible murderous scamp."

    As for Biden being an attack dog... he was DOA.

  2. #3182
    Forum Veteran
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    Aug 2003


    Quote Originally Posted by Fabrizio View Post
    There is a difference: Quayle looked dumb. He's not someone who gets the audience on his side just by walking into a room.

    Shops were not having a run on Dan Quayle reading glasses. Palin will be coming in on a wave.

    Palin is a beautiful woman, she really does know how to TAKE HER TIME speaking, she knows how to land a quip. Of couse Biden will beat her with content... but believe me.... if Palin could do so well in that acceptance speech she's a smart cookie. Maybe that speech was written for her, but the delivery was flawless.

    It's going to be interesting.


    And now in the middle of all of this we have to have the embarrasment of MSNBC having a meltdown...

    Palin is much smarter then Qualye from all that i can see, a better speaker and presenter and unlike Qualye has excited the party instead of boring it.

  3. #3183


    Quote Originally Posted by Jasonik View Post
    He missed his chance at being able to directly attack Bush and his perverse violations by capitulating to his own corrupt party on the FISA immunity vote.
    How do you win the election by running against both parties?

    You might want to check the attitudes of the electorate across party lines on issues like FISA.

  4. #3184
    10 Barclay = Decepticon Optimus Prime's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Isle of Manna-hata


    Good point, Zippy. I cringed when Kerry mentioned closing Guantanamo in his DNC speech. It was a mistake in what was otherwise a surprisingly good speech for him (IMO at least).

  5. #3185


    Quote Originally Posted by Optimus Prime View Post
    Besides, Bentsen annihilating Quayle did a whole lot of good, didn't it?
    Sarah Palin is a trap. If this election becomes about anything other than the last 8 years, the economy, and the fact that McCain's militarism makes us LESS SAFE, Obama is going to lose.
    Comparisons with Quayle are pointless; 1988 was a different dynamic.

    You had 4 years of Carter, followed by 8 years of Reagan, who endorsed his VP. The election was a lock - 426 - 111 landslide. Quayle was not a factor.

    You're right about Palin, but she shouldn't be ignored. Palin is Bush, and that's how she should be attacked.

    **On Meet The Press, Biden provided a clear-cut definition of how a politician separates church and state. Hopefully, this will be a bif topic at the VP debate.

  6. #3186

  7. #3187
    Chief Antagonist Ninjahedge's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2003


    Steve Martin and Tina Fey are running for President/VP?

  8. #3188


    Quote Originally Posted by Jasonik View Post
    As for Biden being an attack dog... he was DOA.
    The Democrats have never recovered from the things they said during those fierce primary battles. They'll also be resurrecting things Hillary said when she was running against Obama.

    Once upon a time Conventions were real events where nobody knew the outcome in advance because only a few states had primaries and therefore delegates were just that; they were there to wheel and deal and choose their party's presidential candidate. You could think of the convention hall as a giant smoke-filled room where the bosses..... Or you could think of it as our equivalent of the parliamentary system, where professional politicians select the candidates and the electorate chooses the dominant party that he will come from.

    You know which party would be the shoo-in if we had that system.

    I say: get rid of primaries; the public is too stupid to trust with such important matters as the party's standard-bearer.

    If the Republican ticket is elected and McCain dies, we'll truly have amateur government --and we'll deserve it for having such an amateurish system for selecting it. The process is naive and guarantees the product is unsatisfactory: look at who's president right this minute. The cynical and manipulative shall inherit the earth.

    The people are driven by whim and therefore they're malleable.

    Give me a smoke-filled room.

    Last edited by ablarc; September 8th, 2008 at 01:18 PM.

  9. #3189


    Quote Originally Posted by ablarc View Post
    I say: get rid of parties; the public is too stupid to trust with such important matters as the party's standard-bearer...

    Give me a smoke-filled room.
    They probably had to go outside to smoke, but Palin was chosen in that room.

  10. #3190


    Zippy, I thought he was running on a message of 'change?'

    As for telecom immunity, Obama was chosen in the democratic primary as the nominee during which his position was that he was opposed to immunity and would support a filibuster. Maybe he made a politically expedient decision. Maybe the democrats picked the wrong candidate. We'll see.

    A Climate of Discontent

    With record low approval ratings for congress, and him running on 'change' what is he running against if not Bush and his coterie of enablers -- both republican and democrat?

    Obama's been playing it safe for too long now, first Biden, then the Clinton Kumbaya convention. Obama's got to start calling people out for the damage they have caused and/or will cause in the future.

    First Obama needs to show that he understands where we are - how we got here - and whose fault it was -- differentiate himself from them and their wrong thinking -- and show us why his 'change' is better than the straight talkin' maverick's?

    He's got to get the intensity up if he wants to do anything more than defend against republican attacks and news-cycle manipulation. Democrats are smug and on their heels with the attitude that this is their election to lose. They just might do it.

  11. #3191


    You can run against the policies of Bush without alienating your own party-machine. Neither side is going to win by eroding its base.

    I agree that Obama must get more aggressive. Palin presents an opportunity if you ignore the media frenzy about her personal life.

    McCain can be attacked on his policies - picking a running mate with views that are the same as those of Bush.

    McCain can be attacked on his judgment - picking a running mate without proper vetting, and one that ironically disagrees with him on key issues.

    This can be done without attaching blame to Palin, and beating up on her. she is who she is; it's not her fauly she was thrust on the national stage; it's McCain's fault for putting her there.

  12. #3192


    The role of the MSM

    We're Gonna Frickin' Lose this Thing

    Adam McKay

    Posted September 8, 2008 | 10:41 AM (EST)

    "Stop saying that!" my wife says to me. But this is not a high school football game and I'm not a cheerleader with a bad attitude. This is an election and as things stand now, we're gonna frickin' lose this thing. Obama and McCain at best are even in the polls nationally and in a recent Gallup poll McCain is ahead by four points.

    Something is not right. We have a terrific candidate and a terrific VP candidate. We're coming off the worst eight years in our country's history. Six of those eight years the Congress, White House and even the Supreme Court were controlled by the Republicans and the last two years the R's have filibustered like tantrum throwing 4-year-olds, yet we're going to elect a Republican who voted with that leadership 90% of the time and a former sportscaster who wants to teach Adam and Eve as science? That's not odd as a difference of opinion, that's logically and mathematically queer.

    It reminds me of playing blackjack (a losers game). You make all the right moves, play the right hands but basically the House always wins. I know what you're going to say " But I won twelve hundred dollars last year in Atlantic City!" Of course there are victories. The odds aren't tilted crazy, but there is a 51%-49% advantage. And in the long run, the house has to win. The house will win.

    So what is this house advantage the Republicans have? It's the press. There is no more fourth estate. Wait, hold on...I'm not going down some esoteric path with theories on the deregulation of the media and corporate bias and CNN versus Fox...I mean it: there is no more functioning press in this country. And without a real press the corporate and religious Republicans can lie all they want and get away with it. And that's the 51% advantage.

    Think this is some opinion being wryly posited to titillate other bloggers and inspire dialogue with Tucker Carlson or Gore Vidal? **** that. Four corporations own all the TV channels. All of them. If they don't get ratings they get canceled or fired. All news is about sex, blame and anger, and fear. Exposing lies about amounts of money taken from lobbyists and votes cast for the agenda of the last eight years does not rate. The end.

    So one side can lie and get away with it. Now let's throw in one more advantage. Voter caging and other corruption on the local level with voting. Check out the article here on HuffPost about Ohio messing with 600K voters. If only five thousand of those voters don't or can't vote that's a huge advantage in a contest that could be decided by literally dozens of votes. That takes us to about a 52 to 48% advantage.

    I'm not even getting into the fact that the religious right teaches closed mindedness so it's almost impossible to gain new voters from their pool because people who disagree with them are agents of the devil. I just want to look at two inarguable realities: A) we have no more press and B) the Repubs are screwing with the voters on the local level.

    I'm telling you, we're going to lose this thing. And afterwords we'll blame ourselves the same way we did with Gore and Kerry (two candidates a thousand times more qualified to lead than W Bush.) Just watch.. McCain wins by a point or two and we all walk around saying things like "Obama was too well spoken." "Biden wasn't lovable enough." "I shouldn't have split those eights." "Why did I hit on 16? Why?!"

    So what do we do?

    1) We give definitive clear speeches like Biden and Obama gave the other day about how no one talked about any issues at the Republican Convention and how they outright lied. But we do them over and over again. 2) We use the one place where it's still a 50-50 game -- the internet -- as much as we can. 3) But most importantly we should bring up re-regulating the media and who owns it and what that conflict of interest is a lot more. By pretending there's no conflict of interest we're failing to alert the public that they're being lied to or given a looking at a coin at the bottom of a pool slanted truth. Every time a pundit or elected official is on any TV news program it should be a polite formality to mention that GE has made such and such billions off the war in Iraq by selling arms or that Murdoch is a right-wing activist with a clear stake in who wins and who taxes his profits the least. Disney, GE, Viacom, and Murdoch -- all want profits and the candidate and agenda that will get in their way the least.

    Obama and Biden should also create a "master sound bite sentence" and repeat it hundreds of times. It should be so true that even the corporations can't screw with it when it makes the airwaves. Here's my attempt: "Katrina, four dollar gas, a trillion dollar war, rising unemployment, deregulated housing market, global more."

    This race should be about whether the Republican Party is going to be dismantled or not after the borderline treason of the past eight years. But instead it is about making the word "community organizer" a dirty word and a beauty queen who shoots foxes from a plane. Someone is not in any way doing their job and it's the press. Or more specifically, that job no longer exists.

    Probably the worst offenders are the pundits who take the position that it's all just a game and say phrases like "getting a post-convention bump" or "playing to the soccer Moms." This isn't a game of Monopoly or Survivor. There are real truths that exist outside of the spin they are given and have an effect on lives. 250,000 Iraqi civilians are dead because we let our reality be distorted by the most effective propaganda machine in fifty years, the corporate American press. Money and jobs are flying out of this country as our currency becomes worthless and we're talking about the fact that McCain is a veteran. If someone busted into your house and robbed you would you then forgive them if you found out they were a veteran? Of course not. So why are we forgiving McCain for selling out his country by supporting the Bush agenda?

    This is it folks. If McCain takes power we fade and become Australia in the seventies: a backwoods country with occasional flashes of relevance. Except we've got a way bigger military and we're angrier. People will get hurt and we'll pay the bill for the bullets. I'm telling you, unless we wake up, we're gonna lose this frickin' thing.

    Adam McKay wrote and directed Anchorman and Talladega Nights. He's currently finishing his newest movie Step Brothers. McKay also co-founded the website Funny or Die with Will Ferrell and Chris Henchy. Adam wrote for Saturday Night Live in the nineties and was head writer for three years. Before all that he was a member of The Second City and IO Theaters in Chicago and was one of the founding members of the Upright Citizens Brigade. Adam also wrote for Michael Moore's the Awful Truth and played off guard for the Atlanta Hawks from 1988-92. He currently resides in Morocco where he is working on his newest novel, the novelization of No Reservations.

  13. #3193


    “We’ve had all kinds of vice presidents over the years,” Mr. Cheney said, when asked about how her experience differed so vastly from his. “Everybody brings a different set of experiences to the office and also a different kind of understanding with whoever the president is.”

    September 8, 2008
    Cheney Endorses Palin, Liked Her Speech

    By Steven Lee Myers

    The Caucus:
    The NYT Politics Blog

    ROME – Vice President Dick Cheney, not surprisingly, endorsed Gov. Sarah Palin as the Republican candidate to replace him, but the man who reshaped the office as much as other vice president in history suggested she would not necessarily replicate the role he has played under President Bush.

    “Each administration is different,” he said, speaking to reporters on Monday on the sun-dappled patio of the ambassador’s residence here. “And there’s no reason why Sarah Palin can’t be a successful vice president in a McCain administration.”

    Mr. Cheney’s remarks represented his first on Senator McCain’s choice as a running mate and offered insight into his own legacy in office. Put simply, the world’s not likely to see a vice presidency quite like his.

    “It won’t look exactly like the Bush administration or the first Bush administration, the Ford administration,” he said. “It’ll be relatively unique to this president and this time that they’re in office.”

    Even as Republicans gathered for their convention, Mr. Cheney travelled to Azerbaijan, Georgia, Ukraine and, now, Italy to rally international pressure on Russia over its war against Georgia. He brought to the trip a reservoir of experiences as an energy executive, a defense official and a hawkish skeptic of Russia that predated his two terms as vice president.

    If it might be hard for her critics to imagine Ms. Palin emerging from Air Force Two in Georgia or Ukraine to hector Russia, as Mr. Cheney did, that’s beside the point, in his view. A Palin vice presidency, he said, would be shaped by her own experiences and her partnership with a President McCain. Much of that, of course, remains unclear.

    “We’ve had all kinds of vice presidents over the years,” Mr. Cheney said, when asked about how her experience differed so vastly from his. “Everybody brings a different set of experiences to the office and also a different kind of understanding with whoever the president is.”

    Mr. Cheney, who has met the governor before and telephoned her after she was selected, described her speech to the Republican convention as “superb.” He singled out her joke about the difference between a pit bull and a hockey mom.

    “I loved some of her lines,” he said, laughing.

    Mr. Cheney skipped his scheduled appearance before his party’s convention because of Hurricane Gustav, but he watched her speech on television early Thursday morning in Baku, Azerbaijan’s capital, 10 time zones away.



    September 8th, 2008 8:20 am

    This is like Dracula endorsing Vampira. What clearer indication could there be that this is seen as nothing more than passing the torch for Bush-Mark 3? Hasn’t met her. Spoke with her once. Loved her speech. So what’s the difference between Cheney and the McCain VP vetting team?

    — DaveCB

    September 8th, 2008 8:25 am

    Cheney is entirely representative of the ‘base’ which Palin was chosen to pander to: old, white, male, rich, pro-oil, pro-nuclear, pro-war in Iraq, pro getting us into war in Iran, pro-provoking Russia into a possible war in the Black Sea area and in Georgia.

    Since that convention speech all I have heard is her give the same speech over and over again, while GOP surrogates campaign against the media’s ‘rough treatment’ of her? Say what? I don’t see FOX News being forced to demote its anchors because they are obviously partisan.

    Those examples of Palin’s speaking that I have been able to find on U-Tube and on other web sources prior to her appointment, reveal her to be a small minded, small town bigot, and religious zealot. Additionally, she seems to share one of the traits of McCain, she is more interested in finding a fight than in solving a problem.

    — ralph ng

    September 8th, 2008 8:56 am

    I’m sure Cheney’s favorite line in Palin’s speech (which she apparently keeps delivering word-for-word at every campaign stop while waiting for Bush’s people to write her a new one) was the one attacking community organizers. We all know how much Cheney cares about people and communities. Or maybe he was blown away by Palin’s ability to lie even more than he and Bush do.

    — Julie

    September 8th, 2008 9:05 amLink

    Cheny looked in the mirror and saw Palin and was pleased. They are both extreme right wing zealots.

    In her pentacostal church Palin says that the Iraq war is God’s plan. When Palin was mayor of tiny Wasilla Alaska she went from a town of no debt to a town of a whopping twenty two million dollar debt before the twon council stepped in and stopped her. The name Sarah Barracuda did not come from her basketball team as alledged but from her classmates who thought of her as ruthless. She lies about being against the bridge to no where when in fact she was a strong supporter of it. McBush loves to brag and lie about Palin selling the Governors jet for a profit. When in fact McBush knows that this jet ended up being brokered for a substantial loss. Palin is nothing but pretty window dressing that McBush grasped at as a political ploy to attract the evangelical vote which he had previously spurned.

    — Mike

    September 8th, 2008 9:08 am

    A 45 minute speech of sarcasm, vicious attacks, lies and no substance. Dick Chaney calls Sarah Plain’s speech superb? I would say John McCain’s speech was superb in comparison to hers. I hope they enjoy their convention bounce for now, but when as the serious campaign goes on, the American people will see McCain/Palin for what they actually are. Let’s hope so.

    — Nick (No, not that one - Z )

    Copyright 2008 The New York Times Company

  14. #3194

    Default A meditation for Barack

    "Elections are won by men and women chiefly because most people vote against somebody rather than for somebody." - Franklin Pierce Adams

    "True Terror is to wake up one morning and discover that your high school class is running the country" - Kurt Vonnegut Jr.

    "Itís just like when youíve got some coffee thatís too black, which means itís too strong. What do you do? You integrate it with cream, you make it weak. But if you pour too much cream in it, you wonít even know you ever had coffee. It used to be hot, it becomes cool. It used to be strong, it becomes weak. It used to wake you up, now it puts you to sleep." - Malcolm X, "Message to the Grass Roots," speech, Nov. 1963, Detroit

  15. #3195


    Re: We're Gonna Frickin' Lose this Thing

    In my clumsy way, I said much of the same a couple of weeks ago (before Palin):

    And I love where he said: "Obama and Biden should also create a "master sound bite sentence" and repeat it hundreds of times."

    I said: "The only sound-bite that the Obama camp has come up with that sticks in the mind is "Yes we can". And it's infantile."

    Last edited by Fabrizio; September 8th, 2008 at 02:15 PM.

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