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Thread: Race for the White House

  1. #1261
    Moderator NYatKNIGHT's Avatar
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    ^That's probably what should be done. Their votes need to count and be counted at some point. Yes, the states were rightfully penalized for moving their primaries, but the voters shouldn't be disenfranchised, not by the Democrats, and it wouldn't hurt come November.

  2. #1262

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    Re. the Florida delegates, my understanding is that it was a kind of gamesmanship by the largely republican state legislature to move the primary up and deny the democrat candidates any meaningful campaign influence.

    *****

    Ron Paul: No John McCain endorsement

    by Jason George

    Republican Rep. Ron Paul told the Tribune this morning he will not back Sen. John McCain as his party's nominee unless the Arizona senator "has a lot of change of heart."

    "I can not support anybody with the foreign policy he advocates, you know, perpetual war. That is just so disturbing to me," Paul said.
    "I think it's un-American, un-Constitutional, immoral, and not Republican."
    continued

  3. #1263

    Default will ron paul supporters back obama?

    I'm inclined to think that's where his support will go. Paleoconservatives like Pat Buchanan also seem to be moving that way. It just doesn't seem likely to me the republican party can survive if this group of people switches to the democratic party.

  4. #1264

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    i-dude... your drive-by 'punditry' is getting old. Having proven yourself repeatedly incapable of engaging in issue based analysis, you've moved to inane horse-race hackery -- lovely.

    Suggestions:
    • Provide a link verifying your contention that Pat Buchanan seems to be "moving" toward supporting Obama.
    • Rethink the ridiculous assertion that core conservatives will, if they leave the republican party in disgust (due to abandonment of, less spending, lower taxes, balanced budget, to name a few), they would move to the democrat party.


    I usually just ignore you and your provocative title bar queries, but I've got to call you out on this one.

  5. #1265

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    Delegate count confusion

    Salon.com only counts pledged delegated - those allocated by voting results. By their count:

    Clinton 758, Obama 799

    Associated Press includes superdelegates (not bound to a particular candidate at the convention). By their count:

    Clinton 1136, Obama 1108

    Real Clear Politics also includes superdelegates in their total. By their count:

    Pledged
    Clinton 925, Obama 1004

    Total
    Clinton 1138, Obama 1144


    Is it real clear?

  6. #1266

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    Quote Originally Posted by investordude View Post
    Paleoconservatives like Pat Buchanan also seem to be moving that way.
    The only "movement" I've noticed is that in his role as a political analyst for MSNBC commenting on the Democratic primaries, his view over the last month as to whether Obama could secure the nomination has shifted.

    At no time in any telecast I've viewed did he express any support for any Democratic candidate.

  7. #1267

    Default he's voiced oppossition to John McCain, so who does he vote for?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a9Dd-yg2A4E

    Do you guys actually ever watch the news or just comment about it? Buchanan is clearly pretty anti-McCain. Which by process of elimination means he either stays home or votes for a democrat. I'm speculating he's pro-Obama, like most of the other commentators that agree to work for MSNBC which, lately, seems more anti-Clinton than even Fox News.

    Jasonik, the only punditry that's absurd is you're still talking about Ron Paul as though he matters in this election. You've got a choice - vote for McCain, vote for a democrat, or stay home. I'm wondering which of those choices Ron Paul supporters are going to pick. Which are you in favor of, assuming the option to vote for Ron Paul in November doesn't look like it will be an option.

  8. #1268
    Disgruntled Optimist lofter1's Avatar
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    Willie Brown (former Mayor of San Francisco / Speaker of the House CA State Legislature) was on Charlie Rose last night and spoke about how the Super Delegates make their choice (Brown was formerly a SD for CA, but is no longer one).

    Brown stated that the job of the Super Delegates, when no candidate has received the adequate number of delegates via primaries / caucuses, is to cold-bloodedly choose the candidate that has the best chance of winning the general election. Their purpose is to assure victory for the Party. SDs will take into consideration such things as the fact that delegates which were won in a caucus tend to be less representative of the general population than delegates won via Primariy votes (attendance at caucuses apparently are skewed towards younger college-aged voters & older more affluent voters -- both of which are big groups for Obama).

    Brown, a master politician of the old style, wouldn't declare his support for either Clinton or Obams. But IMO Brown senses that Hillary is electable in November and that Obama, for all his brilliance and charisma, might not be.

  9. #1269
    Disgruntled Optimist lofter1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by investordude View Post

    Buchanan is clearly pretty anti-McCain. Which by process of elimination means he either stays home or votes for a democrat ...

    You've got a choice - vote for McCain, vote for a democrat, or stay home.
    i-dude: You've not covered all the bases there ^

    Another time honored choice at the polls:

    A Write In Candidate

  10. #1270
    Chief Antagonist Ninjahedge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by investordude View Post
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a9Dd-yg2A4E

    Do you guys actually ever watch the news or just comment about it?
    OK, that was just plain stupid.

    1. It had NOTHING to do with him saying they would go Democratic. AAMOF,

    So do you think the republican establishment will go to McCain? Start writing checks....

    Buchannon: If he wins this thing I think they're gonna say 'well it looks like he's the guy'.
    How does that back your original challenged statement?

    Buchanan is clearly pretty anti-McCain.
    But he is not anti-Republican. Please show us where he has said he will vote for Hillary or Obama over McCain?

    Which by process of elimination means he either stays home or votes for a democrat.
    SPECULATION! Where did you get this from? Because Buchannon does not like McCain Republicans will vote Democratic? NO proof, NO justification for that assertion.

    I'm speculating he's pro-Obama, like most of the other commentators that agree to work for MSNBC which, lately, seems more anti-Clinton than even Fox News.
    More unproven speculation.

    ID, the one thing you have to realize is that it is OK to speculate, but when you make these blind assertions and expect us all to agree with you when you have NOTHING backing them up you are wishing for a miracle!

    You can make a bunch of what if's and try to predict what you think might happen, but when you say it as if you are dead certain about it, you lose credibility in the eyes of those around you.

    ASK what others think about your statements and thoughts. Don't say them like they are fact on a site like this!

    "Do you think the republicans that supported Ron Paul will go for Obama? I think there is a good chance of it!" flies better than "Buchannon hates McCain, therefore Republicans will vote for the Democratic Candidate."

    Jasonik, the only punditry that's absurd is you're still talking about Ron Paul as though he matters in this election.
    Be more specific. You just threw chum in the water and all you will get from it is ill feelings. Where did he SAY that he supports Ron Paul?

    You've got a choice - vote for McCain, vote for a democrat, or stay home.
    You left out "or Leave"

    I'm wondering which of those choices Ron Paul supporters are going to pick.
    Then WONDER, don't force your opinion at us with ill-fitting reasoning!

    Which are you in favor of, assuming the option to vote for Ron Paul in November doesn't look like it will be an option.
    Better to ask a question, but please find me where he said he was going to vote Republican in the first place? I don't remember him saying that...

  11. #1271

    Default i did ask a question

    Ninjahead, my title was "will ron paul supporters support Obama?" Then I speculated that they would, though of course if I knew the answer then I wouldn't have asked it as a question. The ironic part is then there's a complaint that I put it in the title of my post. Isn't the purpose of a title to summarize and make clear what the post is about? If someone is skimming this, they can ignore a post that isn't interesting to them after reading the title.

    My intent isn't to create churn for jasonik. You've got a good point I shouldn't assume that jasonik supports Ron Paul - sorry if that's presumption.

  12. #1272

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    In my analysis, there are three choices for conservatives, two are contingent on the democrat nominee.

    If Clinton is the nominee, they'll hold their nose and support McCain.

    If Obama is the nominee, fracture the party - endorse an antiwar third party libertarian and hope that Obama doesn't win the popular vote, lessening his mandate.

    Of course, with McCain as the republican nominee, insane militant globalists can pray for or provoke a terrorist attack against the US and go totally martial law on the populace forcing Commander in Chief McCain down our frightened throats. Ten months are easily enough time for Bush to frame Iran for something that goes down in Iraq or Pakistan and attack them, perhaps institute a draft and even postpone the election.

    BTW, I DO support Ron Paul, it's pretty clear if you've been paying attention. With a gun to my head, I'd choose Obama over McCain -- and if it were between Hillary and McCain I'd probably say "pull the trigger" (but I'll write in Paul regardless).

  13. #1273
    Chief Antagonist Ninjahedge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by investordude View Post
    Ninjahead, my title was "will ron paul supporters support Obama?" Then I speculated......
    You should have stopped there. Your speculations are very poorly supported and rather bluntly stated.

    I knew the answer then I wouldn't have asked it as a question.
    Look up Rhetorical. Yuor question kind of smelled of a question that was not really seeking an answer, but rather a way for you to voice your opinion.

    The ironic part is then there's a complaint that I put it in the title of my post. Isn't the purpose of a title to summarize and make clear what the post is about?
    Not really. Most people do not go that far. Most people simply post what they want to say in the body of their post, at least on most of the sites I have been to.

    If someone is skimming this, they can ignore a post that isn't interesting to them after reading the title.
    I do not even read titles. But I have to agree with Jason that a lot of your titles seem to come out of left field.

    And saying that someone does not HAVE to read it is a lame defense for an ill-prepared speculation.

    My intent isn't to create churn for jasonik. You've got a good point I shouldn't assume that jasonik supports Ron Paul - sorry if that's presumption.
    I know you may not intend it, but you do this on a lot of posts. Jason does not have much tolerance, period, but I do agree on some of the points he makes about your posting style.

    Try to take some of it to heart when you voice yourself on serious issues and threads.

  14. #1274

    Default are we using procedure to engage in censorship?

    Ninja, I think you're looking to look for some procedural reason to censor right wing viewpoints on the blog. My question wasn't rhetorical, and I appreciate jasonik's answer. But your premise seems to be that I can't also state my own views, but should rather simply ask questions. This is typical of the left - they find excuses to engage in censorship instead of engaging in debate. Why am I not surprised?

  15. #1275
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    Quote Originally Posted by lofter1 View Post
    Willie Brown (former Mayor of San Francisco / Speaker of the House CA State Legislature) was on Charlie Rose last night and spoke about how the Super Delegates make their choice (Brown was formerly a SD for CA, but is no longer one).

    Brown stated that the job of the Super Delegates, when no candidate has received the adequate number of delegates via primaries / caucuses, is to cold-bloodedly choose the candidate that has the best chance of winning the general election. Their purpose is to assure victory for the Party. SDs will take into consideration such things as the fact that delegates which were won in a caucus tend to be less representative of the general population than delegates won via Primariy votes (attendance at caucuses apparently are skewed towards younger college-aged voters & older more affluent voters -- both of which are big groups for Obama).

    Brown, a master politician of the old style, wouldn't declare his support for either Clinton or Obams. But IMO Brown senses that Hillary is electable in November and that Obama, for all his brilliance and charisma, might not be.

    I would disagree on her chances of winning. Obama and her are close on most issues ( war and healthcare biggest differences) but in the end especially with McCain as the reps guy, id expect that with Obama in the race more christian conservatives would stay home and nt really care while if it isHillary, no matter how much they dislike John, they will come out to stop her. She has basically 46 percent of the people in this country already hating her and not willing to considered her at all, Obama has much much more upside in a general.

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