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Thread: Proposed - The New South Street Seaport - by SHoP Architects

  1. #1

    Default Proposed - The New South Street Seaport - by SHoP Architects

    According to the Feb. 23, 2007 edition of AM NY, the current structure on Pier 17 likely will be razed, and it's possible that a tall, iconic structure may rise on the site. It would be nice if the South Ferry Terminal building proposed by Frank Williams would be built there.

    "Plan would raze South Street Seaport mall"
    By Michael Clancy, amNewYork City Editor
    mclancy@am-ny.com


    February 23, 2007

    South Street Seaport's Pier 17 will most likely be razed to make way for a mixed-use retail, residential and open space development, a spokeswoman for the property's leaseholder said Thursday.

    Though the company is exploring a range of options, the three-story shopping mall named for the pier it was built on will likely be demolished, said Cheri Fein, a spokeswoman for General Growth Properties, a Chicago-based real estate company that owns and operates more than 200 malls nationwide. Fein did not elaborate on the specific plans.




    Asked how high a new structure might go, Fein, of the public relations firm Rubenstein Associates, said: "The lower you go, the less open space there is -- but nothing has been decided."
    "There is also the recognition that it is not just a land-bound place," she said. "We want to make it 360 [degrees], so that it can be reached by the ferry as well."

    But according to one person familiar with the developer's initial plan, General Growth is considering a tall iconic building for the site, and would also build a ferry landing and relocate the landmark "Tin Building" of the former Fulton Fish Market. The rest of the pier would be left as open space.

    Preliminary concepts for the pier and the former fish market will be discussed publicly for the first time on Monday, when General Growth, which acquired the East River site in 2004, meets with Community Board 1 to get feedback on its nascent plans.

    Waterfront advocates said General Growth should be given a fair chance to articulate a vision for reviving the site.

    "We look at the Seaport as emblematic of every waterfront neighborhood today -- caught in the middle of looking back at the past and looking forward to the future," said Carter Craft, director of the Metropolitan Waterfront Alliance. "The synergy between commerce and maritime history has always been the vision but it has just eluded everybody thus far."

    On Monday, the company will reveal some basic mapping for the site to begin a dialogue about the project, which does not have a timetable, Fein said.

    "The ideas are for a mixed-use place that will provide services to the residential community, to the business community, to New Yorkers as a whole, and to visitors to the city -- in that order, whereas the plan by \[prior owners\] went in the reverse order," said Fein.

    It's too soon to say what kind of zoning approval, if any, General Growth would need to build, because the site lies within a number of special zoning, national, local, historic and landmark districts, said Jennifer Torres, a spokeswoman for the Department of City Planning.

    Most waterfront advocates would not shed any tears over the loss of the Pier 17 mall, a mix of chain stores, restaurants and specialty shops completed in 1983.

    The mall obstructs the view of the Brooklyn Bridge and is a cumbersome structure, said Lee Gruzen, of SeaportSpeaks, a group of local stakeholders.

    Thus far, she said, General Growth has done a great job of working with the community.

    "The future of the Seaport is grounded in bringing its maritime history to life in a way that benefits those who work, live and visit there," Gruzen said.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by londonlawyer View Post
    Asked how high a new structure might go, Fein, of the public relations firm Rubenstein Associates, said: "The lower you go, the less open space there is -- but nothing has been decided."
    It's nice to see that somebody "gets" it. Of course it's from the developer's side. Since they get FAR bonuses for open space and charge more for higher floors it is of course capitalism speaking. Hopefully the community will see it the same way!

  3. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by Deimos View Post
    Asked how high a new structure might go, Fein, of the public relations firm Rubenstein Associates, said: "The lower you go, the less open space there is -- but nothing has been decided."

    It's nice to see that somebody "gets" it. Of course it's from the developer's side. Since they get FAR bonuses for open space and charge more for higher floors it is of course capitalism speaking. Hopefully the community will see it the same way!
    It's probably the right approach for this site, but it's also the formula for "towers in a park."

    Quote Originally Posted by londonlawyer View Post
    "We look at the Seaport as emblematic of every waterfront neighborhood today -- caught in the middle of looking back at the past and looking forward to the future," said Carter Craft, director of the Metropolitan Waterfront Alliance. "The synergy between commerce and maritime history has always been the vision but it has just eluded everybody thus far."

    "The ideas are for a mixed-use place that will provide services to the residential community, to the business community, to New Yorkers as a whole, and to visitors to the city -- in that order, whereas the plan by \[prior owners\] went in the reverse order," said Fein.

    Most waterfront advocates would not shed any tears over the loss of the Pier 17 mall, a mix of chain stores, restaurants and specialty shops completed in 1983.

    "The future of the Seaport is grounded in bringing its maritime history to life in a way that benefits those who work, live and visit there," Gruzen said.
    Sounds like they think it's a unicorn. How do you accomplish this without turning it into a theme park like Mystic Seaport?

    Or is that actually hte answer?

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    Pier 17 is an odd thing as is the Seaport. It does draw tourists, but they arrive and are challenged to find anything worthwhile to do. It was a faulty plan. I have enjoyed cocktails on Pier 17 now and then, but cocktails can be had anywhere - including in a new iconic building. It sounds encouraging, but I think the word "iconic" is becoming one of those real estate terms like "sun-drenched." Show the public the design. We'll tell you if it is iconic or not.

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    Forum Veteran krulltime's Avatar
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    South Street Seaport plans studied





    27-FEB-07

    Community Board 1 held a public meeting last night for a presentation of plans by General Growth Properties, a real estate investment trust based in Chicago, to redevelop the South Street Seaport properties it acquired in 2004 from The Rouse Company as part of what was then the nation's largest retail real estate transaction.

    Gennell Vaughn of General Growth told the meeting that the company had no definite plan and was only "at the beginning of the process," which, she continued, "will take years" to finish and is "very complicated" as it falls into seven zoning, planning, preservation and urban renewal districts.

    In his presentation for General Growth, Gregg Pasquarelli, a partner with SHoP Architects, said that the company wanted to "provide amenities for the increasing residential population of the district and of Lower Manhattan, build on the positive momentum of the East River and Fulton Street corridor projects, preserve the authenticity of the seaport and its history, and create an experience of local, regional and international appeal," not just for tourists.

    He also said that the company hoped to improve waterfront views, and make South Street narrower to improve pedestrian access.

    He presented several possible scenarios included demolition of the existing Pier 17, and relocation of the "Tin" Building that formerly housed the Fulton Fish Market, either slightly to the south to open up waterfront vistas on Beekman Street, or to the north, or to east.

    One scenario, shown at the right, would create 506,000 square feet of commercial space and 2,530,000 square feet of residential space with a maximum buildable height on piers of 40 feet and on platforms of 350 feet.


    Such a building would permit the creation of about 100,000 square feet of "open space" whereas smaller buildings would allow less open space. The standing-room-only meeting was held in the community room of Southbridge Towers, the extremely handsome residential development that clusters high-rise towers about attractive plazas across Water Street from the Seaport.

    Several speakers questioned General Growth's representatives about the fate of commercial tenants still in operation at Pier 17, the future of the South Street Seaport Museum, whether its plans would include a ballfield for the community, whether an aquatic center could be included, what would be its impact on traffic and how could it accommodate another OpSail.

    The representatives said that the community board "had assisted GGP in identifying the core needs: school, playing field, community center, affordable housing, improved neighborhood retail," adding that the company has been trying to enhance the site with art and cultural events.

    They said that the city, which owns the site, had separated the museum, which a speaker at the meeting said was in financial trouble and relocating much of its collection, from the seaport prior to its acquisition of the seaport, adding, however, that it considered the museum to be extremely important for the future of the South Street Seaport, which was created in the early 1980s. The representatives also said that the configuration of the property did not lay out well for the creation of a ballfield.

    Julie Menin, the chairperson of the board, said that the community was facing "a real crisis" and was extremely interested in amenities such as a school and a community center. "Before we can even get to the issue of height, this community would have to see significant infrastructure improvement," she said.

    SHoP is designing the East River Waterfront Plan for the city and has designed the very handsome Rector Street Bridge at Battery Park City, the stunning Porter House on Ninth Avenue at 15th Street.


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    Crabby airline hostess - stache's Avatar
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    Southbridge Towers = extremely handsome?

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    Disgruntled Optimist lofter1's Avatar
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    I hope this is some VERY early preliminary massing study -- and has nothing to do with what might be intended for the Pier adjacent to the South Street Seaport Historic District:



    That ^^^ would essentially create a wall on the opposite side of the FDR for what appears to be ~ one-half the width of the core portion of the Seaport district.

    Why create avisual barrier between the streets of SSS and the East River?

    A tall one here should be on half the footprint -- and twice as high.

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    Forum Veteran macreator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stache View Post
    Southbridge Towers = extremely handsome?
    I too don't exactly think that "extremely handsome" is an apt description of Southbridge Towers.



    Link to image

  9. #9
    Crabby airline hostess - stache's Avatar
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    Your link came up "forbidden" for me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lofter1 View Post
    I hope this is some VERY early preliminary massing study -- and has nothing to do with what might be intended for the Pier adjacent to the South Street Seaport Historic District...

    That ^^^ would essentially create a wall on the opposite side of the FDR for what appears to be ~ one-half the width of the core portion of the Seaport district.

    Why create avisual barrier between the streets of SSS and the East River?
    Already pandering to NIMBY height obsession.

    A tall one here should be on half the footprint -- and twice as high.
    One third the footprint and three times as high.

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    Forum Veteran macreator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stache View Post
    Your link came up "forbidden" for me.
    Sorry, I guess Emporis doesn't allow image linking.

    I was just attaching an of the images from this Emporis page about the Southbridge towers

  12. #12

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    This would be an awesome site for a new New York City Opera House!!!

  13. #13

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    ^ Nice idea.

    But the developers want to make money.

  14. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by ablarc View Post
    ^ Nice idea.

    But the developers want to make money.
    I know. It sucks.

  15. #15
    Disgruntled Optimist lofter1's Avatar
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    The closest subway stations are blocks away from the Seaport.

    Ergo: A terrible site for NYC Opera or any other high volume arts center.

    Maybe after the 2nd Avenue line is built it would work, but now?

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