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Thread: Proposed - The New South Street Seaport - by SHoP Architects

  1. #166

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    Quote Originally Posted by antinimby View Post
    Do you automatically cheer for everything new?
    What's wrong with cheering for something new that he likes? Are you always automatically so cynical and negative?

  2. #167

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    Odd that the larger open pier area is on the shady north side.

  3. #168

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    Quote Originally Posted by antinimby View Post
    Do you automatically cheer for everything new?
    Anything new that replaces old dilapidated, run down, rat infested, pieces of crap structures like this one, yes.

  4. #169
    Build the Tower Verre antinimby's Avatar
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    ^ So the fact that it is a nondescript, boring glass box makes no difference as long as the rats are gone?

    You do realize that "dilapidated" can be rehabilitated and that rats can be exterminated right?

    Quote Originally Posted by futurecity View Post
    What's wrong with cheering for something new that he likes? Are you always automatically so cynical and negative?
    Are you always belligerent and ready to argue? Mine was a simple question to bigchet about why he's always cheering to get rid of everything existing for the new.

    It had nothing to do with you and yet you decide to butt in and make it into another personal attack. You must be a bitter, hateful person.
    Last edited by antinimby; March 10th, 2012 at 10:48 PM.

  5. #170

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    The old was a nondescript wood and glass box with a silly nonfunctional dormer contraption roof, but the new with the garden lawn and concert hall just adds so many more benefits for the people of NYC and tourist.

  6. #171
    Build the Tower Verre antinimby's Avatar
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    ^ Fair enough.

    I'm disappointed that it couldn't have been done in a more attractive, memorable structure. That proposed glass box could be any mall.

    This very prominent site deserves a more inspiring design.

  7. #172

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    I agree with you, A/N. I would have liked an iconic structure like the Sydney Opera House or the IAC building.

  8. #173

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    The other building design was far more attractive: see " for comparison"
    http://wirednewyork.com/forum/showth...l=1#post235724

  9. #174

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    I think if they build the proposed tower behind it the whole site will come together and will look sensational.

  10. #175
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    So they're going to kick out all the stores and restaurants on Pier 17 and demolish the existing structure?

  11. #176

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    Quote Originally Posted by ZippyTheChimp View Post
    Odd that the larger open pier area is on the shady north side.
    I was wondering that myself. Shouldn't the views be of the harbor and the Statue of Liberty, as opposed to the Brooklyn Heights promenade?

  12. #177

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    Some more news on this project: this may not answer the 'sun exposure' question, but there is some more detailed information and graphics. http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/3140...et-seaport.htm

    My personal experience of being on the waterfront is that the direct 'southern exposure' of the sun can be a bit overwhelming; due to the glare of the direct sun, heat, ect. So, my guess is that ShoP decided to use the building itself as a 'shade structure' which provides more atmosphere and comfort: particularly during the summer months.

    This new building will definitely attract more people to the seaport; the 'curb appeal' and the 'user experience' has all been well designed by ShoP Architects.
    Last edited by infoshare; March 16th, 2012 at 03:06 PM.

  13. #178
    Disgruntled Optimist lofter1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BPC View Post

    Shouldn't the views be of the harbor and the Statue of Liberty, as opposed to the Brooklyn Heights promenade?
    The big attraction from the north side deck & patio will be the Brooklyn Bridge, looming large to the north.

  14. #179
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    I visited Pier 17 the other day. It was busy. The tourist shops and the food court were doing a decent business. It was a good place to stop along the East River bike path.

    There's been some serious neglect -- most obviously, the broken and rusted deck chairs on the terraces. But Pier 17 could be quite nice with some minimal updating.

    Do we really need to close it down for years for this massive gut reno? I look at these ambitious plans and think, the financing is just begging to run out right after the gutting, leaving us with ... nothing.

    An alternative: Renovate Pier 17 floor-by-floor, in the wintertime. Don't close anything for more than a few months. Upgrade the floor tile. Add more beadboard to the walls. Add some better chairs. For the north side of the pier, rotate the uses by season: In the summer, beach volleyball, hammocks and picnic tables. In the winter, a heated tent with a beer garden.

  15. #180
    NYC Aficionado from Oz Merry's Avatar
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    South Street Seaport Preservationistas: Oh no! PoMo Don’t Go!

    by Tom Stoelker


    Detail of the Pier 17 model presented by SHoP at yesterday's Landmarks hearing. (AN/Stoelker)

    The PoMo aficionados were out in force at yesterday’s Landmarks Preservation hearing for the new proposal for South Street Seaport’s Pier 17. It would seem that just as debate on the value of 1970s Brutalism shifts into high gear, the 1980s PoMo crowd is revving its engines. As preservationists and developers whacked it out, some larger questions about context and neighborhood integration arose.


    The "sliders" on the "North Porch" of the pier act stand alone porch swings.

    The SHoP-designed tectonic glass response to Ben Thompson’s wood-clad gables of the exiting 1985 Pier 17 building is a clear break from the past, both literally and figuratively. SHoP’s Gregg Pasquarelli didn’t mince words when he told the New York Times “We’re taking away the po-mo and making it a real waterfront market building.” But Thompson, who died in 2002, had plenty of defenders on hand yesterday, including a statement from his wife Jane Thompson, who warned that real estate in the new plan “will inevitably rise to premium rates; privatization will intensify, which forces a turn to luxury retail.”

    Elise Quasebarth, of the preservation consultancy group Higgins Quasebarth, testified on behalf of Howard Hughes Corporation, the developer, that many of the upland elements planned in conjunction with the 1980s “festival marketplace” are still fundamentally robust. The SHoP worked with James Corner Field Operations to further integrate the street grid through a north-south connection to the East River Waterfront Esplanade and east-west connections to Beekman and Fulton streets.


    The model as seen from the northern perspective.

    But the deal between NYC Economic Development Corporation and Howard Hughes has a distinct cutoff point at the so-called Tin Building. The empty 1907 structure, which formerly housed a market, sits at the river’s edge where the pier juts into the river. Though the plan has the support of Community Board 1, the board did encourage a master plan that carries through the entire South Street Seaport Historic District. Further complicating matters, the district actually cuts through half of Pier 17. The board resolved the districting by extending the boundary to incorporate the north section of the pier as well.

    The concern was driven home by local wine merchant Marco Pasanella who testified that the uplands should be considered as part and parcel pier plan and that only a “holistic” approach would work, particularly while the pier is under construction. Pasanella said the big picture should ensure that the plan attract similar tenants and “the right sort of visitors.”


    As viewed from the East River perspective.

    Speaking on behalf of the Howard Hugh’s Corporation, senior executive vice president Chris Curry said the taking the nearby elements into account, particularly the Tin Building, would require a separate ULURP. He added that the company wants to make an immediate investment, though that wouldn’t preclude additional investments down the line. For the time being however, the cutoff point leaves a few of Thompson’s gables left at the back of the pier. Pasquarelli said they would be painted a uniform color to visually drop away. The gables would still function as a mask for mechanical equipment. If all goes as planned, a little slice of PoMo might survive after all.


    As seen from a southern perspective.


    The lawn on the roof would be pitched like an amphitheater toward a concert stage.


    The area where the SHoP designed pier meets the Tin Building.


    Gang plank stairs lead up toward the upper level shops.

    http://blog.archpaper.com/wordpress/...8A%2FN+Blog%29

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