Page 13 of 18 FirstFirst ... 391011121314151617 ... LastLast
Results 181 to 195 of 260

Thread: Proposed - The New South Street Seaport - by SHoP Architects

  1. #181
    Forum Veteran
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    West Harlem
    Posts
    2,805

    Default

    That's a really, really nice model.

  2. #182
    Forum Veteran
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    New York City
    Posts
    2,129

    Default

    The model is well constructed, certainly. I can't decide if I like this design though

  3. #183
    NYC Aficionado from Oz Merry's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    7,476

    Default

    SHoP Tweaks Pier 17 Design To Let the Sun (And Rain) In

    by Sara Polsky


    [Rendering by SHoP.]

    After receiving Landmarks Preservation Commission approval for its SHoP makeover of the South Street Seaport's Pier 17, developer Howard Hughes agreed on lease terms with the Economic Development Corporation and prepared to enter the ULURP process. In the meantime, Howard Hughes also went before some Community Board 1 committees to present a few modifications to Pier 17's future shopping mall. The Tribeca Trib has the deets. The modifications will split the mall building into two parts, allowing light (and rain) in. "We think that would be pretty fantastic and really have this great engagement with the waterfront," ShoP's Gregg Pasquarelli explains.


    [Via Tribeca Trib.]

    SHoP also modified its proposal for the Link Building (above), the future home of a food market on the southwest corner of Pier 17. The Landmarks Preservation Commission didn't like the original design, which blocked the neighboring Tin Building; the revision is glassier. Here's one more look:



    Howard Hughes is seeking a food market operator now.

    Hughes Corp. Shows Newest New Plans for Pier 17 [Tribeca Trib]

    http://ny.curbed.com/archives/2012/1...nd_rain_in.php

  4. #184

    Default

    That will probably get community/landmark approval: what's not to like LOL. It is interesting to see all the former design iterations this building has gone through; think of all the time 'shoP' would have saved if they would just bring a box of crayons to those community/landmark meetings and and let 'them' design the site. It all seems like much-to-do over nothing; while the piers deteriorate and the public has to suffer more deferred and delayed progress with our city infrastructure.

    All in all, it looks like we are finally 'getting there' with the new seaport building; and the final product does look lovely.

  5. #185

    Default

    Was the change worth it, maybe making the building less mall-like?




  6. #186

    Default

    So they still want to replace a charming, historicist, though somewhat kitchy, shopping mall with a near-soulless, generic glass box shopping mall. Is it really worth it? The one major advantage this design has is the green roof deck, but I'm not sure if it makes up for the multiple levels of wooden balconies that surround the existing structure. These balconies, with their boardwalk feel, wooden lounge chairs, and unobstructed views of the bay, with the skyline towering above and ships passing below, are a splendid feature that is entirely missing from the new design. The surrounding promenade is very generic, while the roof deck seems to have its views somewhat obstructed. The north plaza, aside from its appealing bleacher seats, looks pretty stark and uninviting, especially for a public space that will remain in shadow for most of the day. Maybe I am missing something, or maybe the renders don't do the project justice, but I'm just not sold on the design. At least it's better than the previous proposal.

  7. #187
    Senior Member DUMBRo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Out Yonder...
    Posts
    180

    Default

    It looks like a pavillion at the 1958 World's Fair in Brussels.

  8. #188
    Disgruntled Optimist lofter1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    NYC - Downtown
    Posts
    32,654

    Default

    Doesn't say New York, or Seaport, or much of anything. Looks like a glorified shopping center (which it basically is).

    And that lounge deck area is going to be in shadow for a long part of the day. OK for July & August, but otherwise ...

  9. #189

    Default

    It's such a generic design they actually had to spell out "SEAPORT" in garish letters across the rooftop. All other references to its historical roots are effectively nonexistent. This design could be placed anywhere else in the country and labeled in giant rooftop letters as needed: "EXHIBITION HALL", "MUSEUM", "SLAUGHTERHOUSE", "FOR SALE", or whatever other use.

  10. #190
    Senior Member DUMBRo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Out Yonder...
    Posts
    180

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by LeCom View Post
    It's such a generic design they actually had to spell out "SEAPORT" in garish letters across the rooftop. All other references to its historical roots are effectively nonexistent. This design could be placed anywhere else in the country and labeled in giant rooftop letters as needed: "EXHIBITION HALL", "MUSEUM", "SLAUGHTERHOUSE", "FOR SALE", or whatever other use.
    True dat. It belongs in Seattle...right below the Space Needle.

  11. #191
    Jersey Patriot JCMAN320's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Jersey City
    Posts
    4,444

    Default

    I agree with you LeCom; I too like the current building there. Even though it's a bit kitch it definitely gives the whole area a somewhat nautical feel if somewhat contrived. The new proposal looks like that could be a mall anywhere. There is nothng special about it that screams Seaport other then that rediculous sign.

  12. #192
    NYC Aficionado from Oz Merry's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    7,476

    Default

    C.B. 1 endorses Pier 17 plan on certain conditions

    BY ALINE REYNODS


    Community Board 1 is concerned about the amount of outdoor space that will be available
    to the public on the rooftop of the future Pier 17.


    Local residents have lingering worries that a developer’s current proposal to overhaul Pier 17 would deprive the public of open space and obstruct the panoramic views the Seaport is famous for.

    After hours of discussion, Community Board 1 has finally weighed in, officially, on developer Howard Hughes Corporation’s proposal for the historic pier. The board has voiced approval of the design but has reservations about it. For starters, the board is asking that the city deny the developer’s request for a waiver of the design and view requirements for the lot. The board is also asking for a docking layout that is flexible enough to allow ships to easily moor there, and for the pier as a whole to have at least the same amount of open, public space as is specified in the pier’s original 1985 master plan. The board has also requested that Howard Hughes take necessary measures to restore the Seaport as promptly as possible following the destruction caused by Hurricane Sandy.

    The board’s resolution on the design will be sent to Manhattan Borough President Scott Stringer, who will also review the Pier 17 proposal — after which the design will be evaluated by the City Planning Commission and, finally, by the City Council.

    One of the greatest concerns C.B. 1 members expressed at a joint committee meeting on Thurs., Nov. 8 was the availability of the 45,000-square-foot outdoor space on the future mall’s rooftop. Joseph Lerner, a member of the board’s Seaport/Civic Center and Waterfront Committees, fretted about the space being blocked off from the public by private events.

    “You can have weddings, Bar Mitzvas, whatever you want up there, and we’re out of luck!” he told Chris Curry, the developer’s senior executive vice president of development. “To me, that’s not open space — it can still be taken away.”

    Planning Committee chair Jeff Galloway and committee member Tammy Meltzer both sided with Lerner, asserting that outdoor public space is a scarce, precious amenity in Lower Manhattan that must be preserved for the community.

    “I don’t care if there are five parties up there at once,” said Meltzer, “as long as there is public access.”

    Curry assured the board members such private festivities wouldn’t take up the entire rooftop. “We can move the seating around to make it as open as often as it can be,” he said, adding, “You could be meandering around the green area without a ticket on the roof.”

    Curry and Gregg Pasquarelli, the leading architect of the Pier 17 redesign, also noted that the proposal provides more public space than is currently available at the pier — even excluding the proposed rooftop space — and that the rebuilt pier will be open to the public as soon as the project is completed in 2015.

    “There’s nothing there now,” Curry said of the current mall’s rooftop.

    Still, Meltzer brought forth an idea, which the board espoused, of recommending to the city a provision in Howard Hughes’ lease agreement with the Economic Development Corporation, the pier’s owner, that would restrict the amount of square footage of the future rooftop available for rent.

    “We’ll ask that the open space on the roof be maintained as available open space for a majority of the time for the public [and ask] the Borough President to examine an appropriate limitation in terms of the percentage of space and time that it can be privatized,” said Galloway in summing up the board’s written request.

    In its resolution, C.B. 1 also approved the developer’s plan to construct a year-round, rooftop theater, another public amenity board members said is badly needed in Lower Manhattan.
    “We have no theaters here — not one,” said Seaport/Civic Center Committee member Harold Reed. “I don’t think we need more people coming down there in the summer, but we need lots more people coming down there in the winter.”

    The board, however, is opposed to the permanent performance stage Howard Hughes is proposing to erect along Fulton Plaza — the area facing Fulton Street next to the Link Building — since it would at least partially obstruct the view of the harbor from the uplands. It is backing the South Street Seaport Museum’s request for a restrictive declaration guaranteeing that the views be maintained from Fulton Street to the East River.

    C.B. 1 chair Catherine McVay Hughes inquired about the possibility of incorporating the stage into a portion of the Link Building, instead.

    “You’d still maintain your view corridor, and then you could just close the doors when you’re not using it,” she suggested. The views of the historic boats moored at Piers 17 and 16, she added, is what makes the South Street Seaport a historic district and not just another shopping mall.

    Curry didn’t respond to this idea at the meeting and declined comment on it afterwards.

    Seaport/Civic Center Committee member Paul Hovitz, a resident of the nearby Southbridge Towers, isn’t convinced that the Fulton Plaza stage would give local merchants more business.
    “I think blocking the view corridor is of much greater concern,” he said, “and I think if we can have that venue on the roof, we can have the performances up there, which leaves that [plaza] area more open to the original purposes of the Seaport.”

    Finally, while C.B. 1 is sanctioning the rezoning of the pier and the surrounding waterfront area — which would match the zoning standards of the rest of Downtown’s East River Esplanade — board members are concerned about future uses of the Tin Building and the New Market Building.

    Said Galloway, “We’re asking that any future development of [these] buildings be such that they be used as a community center and public market.”

    Paul Selver, an attorney representing the developer, assured the board that Howard Hughes would be required to craft and submit a second Uniform Land Use Review Procedure (ULURP) application before touching either of the city-owned buildings.

    Michael Levine, C.B. 1’s director of land use and planning, said the city is intent on approving the rezoning of the area to make it consistent with the zoning of the rest of the southern portion of the waterfront.

    The alternative of rezoning individual plots of land would violate city code, he noted. “If we said that we wanted to zone one lot and not the whole stretch, the city could be subject to a court action for spot zoning,” explained Levine. “So it’s better for us to say the [developer] should come back to us in the future and not say that we’re only going to approve one lot.”

    http://www.downtownexpress.com/c-b-1...in-conditions/

  13. #193
    NYC Aficionado from Oz Merry's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    7,476

    Default

    After Storm, Moving to Update a Mall at the South Street Seaport

    By TERRY PRISTIN


    SHoP Architects
    A rendering shows plans to transform the Pier 17 shopping mall at South Street Seaport.



    Nearly two months after Hurricane Sandy devastated the South Street Seaport on the East River in Lower Manhattan, Dumpsters still line its cobblestone streets and nearly all of the stores west of Franklin D. Roosevelt Drive remain closed.

    But the storm surge largely spared Pier 17, the seaport’s long-maligned shopping mall to the east. The operators of the mall, the Howard Hughes Corporation of Dallas, say it escaped damage because it is three feet above the pier, which in turn sits well above the water. And so, the company, which holds the ground lease to the city-owned pier, is moving forward with its plans to transform its dated festival marketplace into an open and airy three-story retail and entertainment center.

    The local community board voted last month to support the proposal, despite reservations about the signage and some other design features. Though the plan is still working its way through the city’s land use process, the developer’s agreement with the city Economic Development Corporation requires that construction begin on July 1. David R. Weinreb, the chief executive of Howard Hughes, said in a telephone interview that the company would meet that deadline.

    After being blocked off by metal gates and closed until this month because of concerns about the stability of the pier, the mall is now open, though some stores are still closed. Inspectors from Halcrow, an international engineering company hired by Howard Hughes, recently determined that the structure was sound. The pier is south of the Brooklyn Bridge, just beyond Fulton Street.

    “The pier got a solid rating,” Christopher J. Curry, a senior executive vice president at Howard Hughes, said in a recent interview at the company’s offices on Fulton Street. City officials confirmed that no problems were found at the pier.

    In addition to Pier 17, the company controls 170,000 square feet of space farther inland at the seaport, including stores like Brookstone, Ann Taylor and Coach, which suffered extensive storm damage.

    “We’re working diligently to remediate the shops,” Mr. Weinreb said. Asked whether the closed stores would remain at the seaport, he said, “We’re in discussions with our tenants about what is in their best interests. Many of those tenants enjoy very good sales and fully expect and want to be back open.”

    From the mid-1980s to the early ’90s, the seaport was a big draw, especially for young people, who crowded its bars and restaurants. But then it fell out of favor with New Yorkers, though it has remained a must-see for visitors taking in other downtown sites, retail specialists said.

    The operators of the mall at Pier 17 have long wanted to give it more cachet with city residents. Shortly before the economic crisis, a previous owner, General Growth Properties, a mall developer, introduced a much more ambitious plan for the seaport, including a 42-story tower, which was unpopular with residents.

    The Howard Hughes Corporation, which is primarily known for its vast master-planned communities like Summerlin, near Las Vegas, acquired the shopping center in 2010, when it was spun off from General Growth as the mall company was emerging from bankruptcy.

    Completed in 1985, the Pier 17 shopping center was developed by the Rouse Company, the creator of marketplaces in Boston and Baltimore. (General Growth bought Rouse in 2004.)

    But by the time the mall opened, the marketplace concept may already have been outmoded. The existing mall “has basically been a disappointment to everyone over its life,” Hardy Adasko, a senior vice president for planning at the city Economic Development Corporation, testified last week at a City Planning Commission hearing. His agency sees the redevelopment of the pier as a way of advancing its long-term investment in the waterfront, he said.

    In contrast to the marketplace design, which was intended to shield visitors from the grittiness of the port, the new structure will capitalize on its waterfront location, offering abundant views of the bridge. Outdoor space on either side of the pier also will be enhanced.

    But the community board and officials of the South Street Seaport Museum say Howard Hughes is impeding views of the river and the ships maintained by the museum by operating a seasonal stage near the pier during the warm months. Mr. Curry told commissioners, though, that the stage will remain.

    The new structure will include two levels of glassy retail space that can each accommodate a store of 60,000 square feet — a scale that is rare in Lower Manhattan.

    On the floor below those two levels, shoppers will be able to wander through an unenclosed area designed to resemble a neighborhood of city blocks, said Gregg Pasquarelli, a principal in SHoP Architects, whose projects have included the nearby redeveloped Pier 15 and the new Barclay’s Center in Brooklyn. SHoP is working with James Corner Field Operations, one of the designers of the High Line.

    “The inspiration was an authentic street pattern,” Mr. Pasquarelli said. “Though you have the ability to move vertically you do not feel you are in a shopping center.” In bad weather, glass doors will descend from the upper floors to provide protection.

    A flat roof will replace what Mr. Pasquarelli describes as the faux historic gables on the existing structure. The developers have pledged that at least 10,000 square feet on the roof will be open to the public at all times. There will also be a space for events, but Howard Hughes has not decided whether to incorporate a removable enclosure so that it could be used year round, as the community board has requested.

    In his testimony before the planning commission, Mr. Curry also promised not to lease space to big-box retailers like Walmart and said the company planned to install a “world-class” food market in the so-called Link Building, a 13,000-square-foot structure next to the pier that is part of the redevelopment plan.

    But otherwise, in the year since it signed its redevelopment agreement with the city, Howard Hughes has spoken in only the most general terms about how it will fill the space at Pier 17 and has not said how much it plans to invest in the project. The developer initially hired Crown Retail Services to market the space, but the two companies parted company earlier this year.

    Pressed by Amanda M. Burden, the planning commissioner, to describe the “flavor” of the tenants he was seeking, Mr. Curry said, “Retail is an important element of the project, but will not dominate it.”

    Mr. Weinreb said he was traveling extensively nationally and internationally to market the project to “tenants unique to New York from all over the globe” and “great chefs from all over the world.”

    But there will be competition, because Howard Hughes is marketing Pier 17 to tenants just as two other major retail projects are under way in Lower Manhattan.

    Brookfield Place, the Battery Park City office complex formerly known as the World Financial Center, is updating its retail and restaurant space and planning to install a food market on the Hudson River waterfront in the style of Eataly in the Flatiron district. And Westfield is developing a 365,000-square-foot shopping center to be spread over multiple levels at the World Trade Center.

    Elizabeth H. Berger, the president of the Alliance for Downtown New York, a business improvement district, said Manhattan below Chambers Street is “underretailed,” particularly for a rapidly growing residential population of 60,000. “I think Lower Manhattan will only benefit from a density of retail experiences,” she said.

    Jeffrey D. Roseman, an executive vice president at Newmark Grubb Knight Frank, a brokerage, said an attraction like Cirque du Soleil might help Pier 17 withstand the competition. “If they are able to figure out the right kind of tenant mix, then it could be a home run.” he said.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/26/n...s&emc=rss&_r=0

  14. #194
    NYC Aficionado from Oz Merry's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    7,476

    Default

    Good.

    Is the comparison with the Pepsi and Domino signs
    a negative reflection on those iconic landmarks, or have I misintrepreted that?

    If not -->
    .



    Pier 17 Plan Approved, Minus Controversial Signage


    by Sara Polsky



    The City Planning Commission met this morning to take its official vote on the plans for the South Street Seaport's Pier 17, and a tipster reports that the plans for a Pier 17 makeover were unanimously approved—with two modifications. The smaller one is that the pier must incorporate moorings for maritime use. The bigger one, which will please some anxious neighbors, is that there will be no rooftop Seaport signage. City Planning Commissioners had declared the proposed signage a blight on the area at an earlier meeting, and compared it quite unfavorably to the Pepsi and Domino signs, so the decision is no particular surprise. Construction on the pier redesign should begin by July 1 and will include a new shopping mall with a 10,000-square-foot roof space and a food market in the pier-neighboring Link Building.

    http://ny.curbed.com/archives/2013/0...al_signage.php

  15. #195

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Merry View Post
    Is the comparison with the Pepsi and Domino signs a negative reflection on those iconic landmarks, or have I misintrepreted that?
    The comparison is a negative for the Seaport sign.

    The comparison was first made by the developer in the presentation to the LPC:
    Michael Bierut of Pentagram, the company that designed the pier’s proposed signage, told the Landmarks Commission last fall that the sign is inspired by giant industrial signs like the riverfront Colgate clock in New Jersey. The simple lettering, he said, would be made of channel glass and lit from within to give the letters an “even soft glow.”

    “Our challenge as sign designers was to bridge [two] worlds,” Bierut said. “To do something that was congruent with the historic character of the overall site, but yet had a certain kind of logic with the contemporary architecture.”
    Oddly, the LPC accepted it.

    But there was never really a historical place called "The Seaport." Actually "South St" is more historically significant. From the LPC designation report, a mid-19th century description by Thomas Floyd Jones: "Looking east was seen on the long river front from Coenties Slip to Catherine St, innumerable masts of the California clippers, and London and Liverpool packets, with their long bowsprits extending way over South St, reaching nearly to the opposite side."

    At the time in ports around the world, docking a ship this way was called a "South Street."

    The CPC commissioners didn't see the the same connection as that of the other signs:
    Planning commissioners last week acknowledged the history of such illuminated industrial signs such as Pepsi and Domino, but said the concept did not translate for them.

    “We really have to respect the integrity of the waterfront,” said Commissioner Maria Del Toro. “And I like the iconic signs, but this is not an iconic sign, so let’s not put it in the same category.”

Page 13 of 18 FirstFirst ... 391011121314151617 ... LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Is the South Bronx Hip?
    By ASchwarz in forum New York City Guide For New Yorkers
    Replies: 28
    Last Post: March 16th, 2015, 09:58 PM
  2. Riverside Park South
    By Kris in forum New York City Guide For New Yorkers
    Replies: 85
    Last Post: September 8th, 2012, 03:53 PM
  3. Barretto Point Park in the South Bronx
    By Edward in forum New York City Guide For New Yorkers
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: January 4th, 2008, 01:02 AM
  4. South Bronx Musical Tour
    By Kris in forum New York City Guide For Visitors
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: July 20th, 2003, 04:43 PM
  5. Peking to Sail Away - Seaport museum to sell tall ship
    By ZippyTheChimp in forum New York City Guide For New Yorkers
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: April 22nd, 2003, 10:26 AM

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  


Google+ - Facebook - Twitter - Meetup

Edward's photos on Flickr - Wired New York on Flickr - In Queens - In Red Hook - Bryant Park - SQL Backup Software