Page 4 of 18 FirstFirst 1234567814 ... LastLast
Results 46 to 60 of 260

Thread: Proposed - The New South Street Seaport - by SHoP Architects

  1. #46
    I admit I have a problem
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    North Koreatown
    Posts
    532

    Default

    This is the best site plan by any NYC developer in decades.
    The microblocks look terrific. The Hudson Yards people could learn a thing or two here.

    Still, I'm getting that "doomed from the start" feeling about this project.

  2. #47
    Build the Tower Verre antinimby's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    in Limbo
    Posts
    8,976

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ablarc View Post
    Wow, that tower sure is beautiful.
    And it also happens to be the part of the proposal that is most vulnerable.

  3. #48

    Default

    Quite an extraordinary proposal.

    What are the chances of its undisturbed approval? Pretty limited, I assume.

  4. #49
    Kings County Loyal BrooklynLove's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Brooklyn, planet Earth
    Posts
    2,757

    Default

    i hate that an extraordinary and sensible approach like this can be stopped by such a largely minority interest. the fact that .0000001% of those in nyc impacted by this could stop this project is just plain ridiculous when it's overall impact on the city would be overwhelmingly positive.

  5. #50

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BrooklynLove View Post
    the fact that .0000001% of those in nyc impacted by this could stop this project is just plain ridiculous when it's overall impact on the city would be overwhelmingly positive.
    And are we even sure that the impact on that .0000001% would actually be negative? Is the present setup better for anybody?

  6. #51
    I admit I have a problem
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    North Koreatown
    Posts
    532

    Default

    ^ The current Pier 17 could use some sprucing up, but I think it's basically pretty good. It has the essential tourist services: views, places to sit by the water, food, public restrooms, water taxi.

    I like the new plan. But knowing NYC developments, if Pier 17 is bulldozed, we're likely to be stuck with a vacant lot for 20 years.

  7. #52

    Default

    ^ A fair assessment.

  8. #53

    Default

    Thank God, Phyllis Diller Scofidio + Renfro are not the architects here. We would be seeing 10 story LCD screens, and a park with reclining chairs and hammocks.

  9. #54
    Disgruntled Optimist lofter1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    NYC - Downtown
    Posts
    32,654

    Default

    Interesting that my city councilman, Alan Gerson -- who was so friendly to NYU's development / privitization plans for Washington Square Park (it's reported that Gerson will be employed by NYU when he is term-limited out of office, and one should expect a public servant to kiss the butt of those who fill his pockets, no?) -- is now squawking about plans to open up Pier 17 and free it from the deadliness of the out-dated shopping mall structure that takes up almost the entire pier area. Maybe he's fishing for potential employment at General Growth (who it seems, from this report, is willing to pay the piper) ...

    South Street Seaport Building Plan Faces Council Roadblock

    NY TIMES
    By DAVID W. DUNLAP
    June 19, 2008

    A significant figure in the review and approval process facing the proposal to redevelop Pier 17 at the South Street Seaport, Councilman Alan J. Gerson, said on Wednesday that the plan was “certainly not going to pass in its present form.”

    “I’m not a soothsayer,” he added, “but I’m confident in that.” He said comments from his constituents were strongly negative.

    General Growth Properties of Chicago, which has controlled the seaport retail complex since buying the Rouse Company in 2004, has started a Web site, thenewseaport.com, dedicated to its redevelopment proposal.

    Mr. Gerson represents Lower Manhattan and will have an influential voice in the uniform land-use review procedure. His director of communications, Paul Nagle, said that General Growth had told Mr. Gerson of its “willingness to work with him” in refining the plan.

    Julie Menin, the chairwoman of Community Board 1, said that General Growth’s project “needs to be contextual” and must also take into account “a dearth of parks, community centers and schools” for the growing residential population downtown.

    The property is city-owned. The Bloomberg administration strongly favors the General Growth plan.

    Issue No. 1, Mr. Gerson said, was the height of the 42-story, 495-foot hotel and apartment tower that General Growth proposes to build at the foot of Pier 17. “Is the seaport area going to become another part of high-rise Manhattan?” Mr. Gerson asked.

    General Growth and its architect, Gregg Pasquarelli of SHoP Architects, have said that the tower has been designed to lessen its visual impact and that by stacking floor area vertically, open spaces would be created along the pier.

    But Mr. Gerson said that the plaza on Pier 17 would have a luxury hotel on one side and a restaurant and event space on the other, in the relocated Tin Building that once served the Fulton Fish Market.

    “Essentially, it’s a hotel complex that other people will be able to walk around,” he said, adding that this was “inconsistent with our efforts to open up the waterfront.”

    Other downtown civic leaders greeted the open space proposal enthusiastically.

    General Growth’s program calls for 423,815 square feet of retail space, 375,140 square feet of hotel space, 247,950 square feet of open space, 176,575 square feet of residential space and 32,000 square feet of space for a community center.

    Mr. Gerson cited some things he liked about the General Growth plan: that it would reclaim the north side of Pier 17, which is now not much more than a waterfront service alley, and that it would provide greenmarket stalls and a “desperately needed” community center in the market block on the inland side of the seaport.

    But over all, he said he was left with “a sense that it’s creating a private enclave and, in between, the public will have a few crumbs.”

    Copyright 2008 The New York Times Company

  10. #55
    Build the Tower Verre antinimby's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    in Limbo
    Posts
    8,976

    Default

    Here is a pic of what the pier currently looks like.

    The tower will be built on where the cruddy-looking warehouse now stands (at the rear of the boat) :


  11. #56
    Disgruntled Optimist lofter1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    NYC - Downtown
    Posts
    32,654

    Default

    For comparison ...


  12. #57
    Build the Tower Verre antinimby's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    in Limbo
    Posts
    8,976

    Default

    Seaport promises fresh food now, hopes for hotel tower later


    Downtown Express schematic of General Growth Properties’ plans for the Seaport, above. The firm plans to
    set up a fresh food market in August and hopes to build two hotels and move the Tin Building to the east
    end of the pier near a new amphitheater. New retail spaces would be built on a rebuilt Pier 17.
    General Growth’s image, below, shows a restored Tin Building and the hotel tower.


    By Julie Shapiro
    June 20 - 26, 2008



    A permament 16-stall, fresh food market will open this summer on South St., General Growth Properties executives said Wednesday after unveiling longterm redevelopment plans for Pier 17 and the rest of the Seaport mall.

    The market is the first piece of General Growth’s plans, which include a 495-foot tower the developer hopes to build north of Pier 17.

    Vendors for the market will sell locally grown produce and prepared food from the same stalls where fishmongers once hawked their wares, on South St. between Beekman and Fulton Sts., in the base of the building that now contains the Bodies exhibit. The market, which General Growth is building now, will be open seven days a week, year-round, starting sometime in August.

    The market is just one small piece of General Growth’s larger plans, which include a 42-story condo and hotel tower; a separate boutique hotel; half a dozen low-rise retail buildings; and the relocation of the landmark-protected Tin Building to the tip of the pier. To draw residents to a waterfront now dominated by tourists, and perhaps to win local support, General Growth also plans to build a community center and a public plaza the size of Bryant Park.

    General Growth hopes to start construction in 2010 and finish by 2014, although the 32,000-square-foot community center could open as soon as 2011 on the second floor of the building containing the Bodies exhibit.

    Julie Menin, chairperson of C.B. 1, praised the fresh foods market as a good first step for the project, but she said the market does not detract from the serious questions she has about how General Growth will mitigate the impact of the rest of their plans.

    She is suspending judgment on the project until General Growth makes a presentation to the Seaport/Civic Center Committee on July 8, but she did not sound happy about the height of the tower.

    “We’re going to take a very critical look in terms of what we think is acceptable and not acceptable,” Menin said.

    In addition to the proffered park space and community center, Menin also wants to see General Growth add a school to the plan to help alleviate the overcrowding Downtown.

    “We need to make sure we have something contextual for the Seaport area that takes into account some of these infrastructure needs,” Menin said.

    For now, a large mall blankets Pier 17, an outdated relic of the 1980s, said Michael McNaughton, a vice president at General Growth. The firm acquired Pier 17 when purchasing The Rouse Company in 2004.

    “That project has just lost its relevance in the local neighborhood,” McNaughton said during a presentation to Downtown Express Wednesday. “An enclosed mall isn’t right for these times and for the future.”

    Lower Manhattan’s exploding residential growth means a whole new potential market for the Seaport, but only if General Growth switches the pier’s focus.

    “We want to get the community to think the Seaport is for them,” McNaughton said.

    In contrast to the mall, General Growth would break the retail into smaller blocks with outdoor connections, more like the cobblestone shopping district on the west side of F.D.R. Drive.

    The most controversial aspect of the plan is a new condo and hotel tower on the site of the New Market building just north of Pier 17, which would be demolished and rebuilt under the plan. The tower would house retail on lower levels and then a 25-story hotel topped with 12 stories containing 78 condos.

    The proposed tower sits just outside the historic district that covers the rest of the Seaport. That omission gives the developers more license, but since zoning regulations cap the height of a new building at 350 feet, General Growth will have to apply for a variance and prove financial hardship in order to build the additional150 feet.

    General Growth chose to build a taller building so they could make the tower slimmer and less obtrusive, McNaughton said. If the city does not agree to the tower’s height, the whole project could be in jeopardy, he added.

    Robert Lieber, deputy mayor for economic development, expressed strong support for the project, but he also noted in a statement that the public review process still lies ahead and could alter the project to make sure it fits in with the community.

    To the south of the tower, a smaller boutique hotel would rise four to six stories on top of two stories of retail. The boutique hotel would have a rooftop pool but would not have the meeting rooms and ballroom that are slated for the larger hotel in the tower.

    Moving toward the water, several more low-rise retail buildings would dot the new Pier 17 and then will open up into a large plaza. Renderings show trees, benches and space for events and performances. Including smaller pieces of open space between the buildings and along the water, the project will create 4.2 acres of public space, McNaughton said.

    To the east of the plaza, General Growth hopes to place the Tin Building, which now sits on the west end of the pier, partly wedged beneath the elevated F.D.R. McNaughton sees the Tin Building, which was part of the Fulton Fish Market, as a dark, hulking barrier to the city’s East River Waterfront project, which would create an esplanade running along the river. To maintain the style of the city’s plan for the East River waterfront, General Growth hired SHoP Architects, the same firm the city is using.

    To the east of the relocated Tin Building, the pier would drop down amphitheater-style to the water, providing a quiet place for people to read or take in the views, or perhaps providing seating for a concert. McNaughton envisions the Brooklyn Philharmonic Orchestra serenading the pier from a boat docked at its end.

    Back on mainland, General Growth also plans to build 24 apartments above the buildings along Schermerhorn Row. McNaughton said General Growth has not decided whether the apartments and the condos in the tower will be market-rate.

    General Growth presented a series of images to Downtown Express, including a schematic of the entire site, but would only release two renderings for publication. The rest of the images can be found at TheNewSeaport.com.

    The project will go before the Landmarks Preservation Commission in September or October and then will go through the city’s Uniform Land Use Review Procedure (ULURP) next March, McNaughton said. The project lies within six overlapping special zoning and historic districts, which complicates the city, state and federal approval process.

    The biggest landmarking hurdle is the move of the Tin Building, which is in the city and national historic district. When it was built around the turn of the 20th century, the building was right on the water, unencumbered by the as-yet-unbuilt F.D.R. The Tin Building was heavily damaged in the mid-1990s by a fire, and the city only partly repaired it, McNaughton said.

    General Growth wants to rebuild the building as originally designed, restoring its original three stories. In moving the Tin Building to the tip of the pier, McNaughton wants to put it back in the sunlight and at the water’s edge, as it was 100 years ago. General Growth developed this plan in consultation with the Landmarks Preservation Commission, so he is optimistic that they will approve it.

    If the project gains all of the government approvals it needs, General Growth will vacate the pier in 2010 to demolish and rebuild it. Part of the pier was built from wood, and it is eroding and would have to be replaced eventually anyway. The Army Corps of Engineers, which withheld approval of the Hudson River Park for years, would have to sign off on the plan.

    McNaughton would not say how much the project will cost.

    General Growth has been working with a C.B. 1 taskforce for several months to flesh out plans for the community center space. Contrary to General Growth’s initial statements, McNaughton said this week that the community center is contingent on the rest of the project being approved by C.B. 1 and the city.

    “It would be difficult for us to build the community center if the project is not approved,” McNaughton said.

    John Fratta, chairperson of C.B. 1’s Seaport Committee, denounced the reversal and said the East Side needs a community center regardless of what happens with General Growth’s plans. Either way, he and the community are not sure the 32,000-square-foot space will be large enough.

    While Fratta was not surprised by the content of General Growth’s plans, he was surprised that the board did not get the first look at them.

    “It’s just unfortunate that they refused to meet with committee before they went public on the plans,” Fratta said. “It’s like they snubbed the community board and usurped our process.”

    General Growth offered to present the plan to select C.B. 1 members in a private meeting, but Menin, chairperson of the board, refused, saying the meeting should be public.

    Frank Sciame, a Seaport developer and chairperson of the South Street Seaport Museum, got a preview of the plans earlier this month and liked what he saw.

    “We think it’ll be a great addition to the neighborhood,” said Sciame, who worked closely with C.B. 1 to help protect and restore the historic district. “Something different was needed.”

    Sciame sees the tower as a way of anchoring the development and he said it will be the key piece that makes the rest of the project economically viable. Since the tower is not in a historic district, Sciame does not mind seeing it rise along the waterfront.

    Liz Berger, president of the Downtown Alliance, likes that the configuration of the buildings would open up view corridors down Beekman St., extending the feeling of the waterfront westward. She also likes that the architectural designs, inspired by fishing nets and ship rigging, do not try to recreate a faux-historic 19th-century pier, but rather reinterpret the past for the future. Berger, a Downtown resident and former C.B.1 member, wants General Growth to restore “bustling vitality” to the Pier 17 section of the East River waterfront.

    “What’s there now doesn’t work,” she said. “This is beginning of a very exciting idea…. I think it’s about time that we get it right at the Seaport.”

    © 2008 Community Media, LLC

  13. #58

    Default

    Architecturally: not my sort of thing (londonlawyer, you are not alone!!! ). I dislike the crunchy 'boutique' hotel thing more than the tower.

    Urbanistically: it looks like they are really trying to re-value that area. While the Fulton-St area is nice (I love the old fihermen's buildings...), the pier itself is kinda meh. I have seen frome xperience that even emdiocre architecture with good urbanism is transformative (in a positive way).

    And while I am a bit of a champion NIMBY myself (or rather, let's not build unless we have re-upped the better, existing stock first, etc.), I think objecting to the concept of high-rises in lower Manhattan is a bit odd

  14. #59

  15. #60
    10 Barclay = Decepticon Optimus Prime's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Isle of Manna-hata
    Posts
    284

    Default

    I like the plan, too. I think it breaks up the mass pretty well. The scale is nice. The tower could of course be taller and thinner but odds are it will go in the opposite direction.

    The only thing I would worry about is SHoP's facade treatments often turn out worse than rendered.

Page 4 of 18 FirstFirst 1234567814 ... LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Is the South Bronx Hip?
    By ASchwarz in forum New York City Guide For New Yorkers
    Replies: 28
    Last Post: March 16th, 2015, 09:58 PM
  2. Riverside Park South
    By Kris in forum New York City Guide For New Yorkers
    Replies: 85
    Last Post: September 8th, 2012, 03:53 PM
  3. Barretto Point Park in the South Bronx
    By Edward in forum New York City Guide For New Yorkers
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: January 4th, 2008, 01:02 AM
  4. South Bronx Musical Tour
    By Kris in forum New York City Guide For Visitors
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: July 20th, 2003, 04:43 PM
  5. Peking to Sail Away - Seaport museum to sell tall ship
    By ZippyTheChimp in forum New York City Guide For New Yorkers
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: April 22nd, 2003, 10:26 AM

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  


Google+ - Facebook - Twitter - Meetup

Edward's photos on Flickr - Wired New York on Flickr - In Queens - In Red Hook - Bryant Park - SQL Backup Software