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Thread: 100 11th Ave: Vision Machine - by Jean Nouvel

  1. #16
    http://tinyurl.com/2ag28z Front_Porch's Avatar
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    The new Nouvel building doesn't have a lot of corners (ok, I'm a stick-in-the-mud) but I do like the fact that they'll show you a preview of what your window arrangement is going to be. The attention to detail is a nice contrast to new buildings where they aren't even bothering to give you closet rods or towel bars.

    Plus, the floors are terrazzo, so we shouldn't have to hear about any warping/scratching.

    ali r.
    {downtown broker}

  2. #17

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    Tell me I'm crazy, but when I look at that facade.... the inticate lacy design... I see the Alwyn court on 7th and 58th. What other building in NYC could you compare it too? (You want some up-dated French Regency too.)
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  3. #18
    http://tinyurl.com/2ag28z Front_Porch's Avatar
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    I like the Allwyn Court comparison a lot.

    The idea of a "floating tree" somehow reminds me of walking through the underside of Lever House.

    ali r.
    {downtown broker}

  4. #19

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    I don't understand how anyone can call this "anti-urban". It looks and sounds so sophisticated.

    Street wall maintained...tied into the street. And my gosh the builders aren't afraid of food! I image the "open-air dining patio for the lobby restaurant" will be open to the public. It's also described as being on the "ground floor".

    I also see nothing about the usual parking garage.

  5. #20

    Default Gehry's building was really starting to grow on me

    Quote Originally Posted by pianoman11686 View Post
    Gehry's IAC is also anti-urban. But that doesn't keep it from being a great building.

    The context is the West Side highway in a formerly industrial part of Chelsea. If this were SoHo, I'd agree with you, but I see nothing wrong with this building. It certainly is eye-catching.

    Gehry's building was really starting to grow on me, especially as a stand alone object. I think the setbacks and scale of massing of IAC is much more appropriate than Nouvel's scaleless fishscales. Nouvel's building will ruin the effect of Gehry's unique building. The context is not just the back face of Chelsea Piers and the river, but it's an urban edge of the Chelsea neighborhood. A changing neighborhood that is gritty, but a neighborhood with scale and context. This building ignores that edge completely. Also, it's not a standalone block site like the IAC,it's a corner site. Gehry's IAC redefines the edge via it's sail like forms, but the massing maintains the edge.

    This look has been done before, and I am just not a fan of it. It's hyperactive ritalin addicted faddertecture. Nouvel is most successful when his buildings interact and react to their sites, such as the Arab Institute, the Cartier Foundation, and 40 Mercer here in NYC. This building could be anywhere, and that's why it's inappropriate and un-NY. While the formal investigation of a modular deconstructed curtianwall is fascinating, the questions remains, should you build it? And should it built to look like this? Just one of the problems with computers and technology is it allows you to create forms and assemblies that in reality is poor design and bad architecture. If there is anything that I find potentially interesting about Nouvel's building it's the logia space. It reminds me of the modular multilevel spatial investigations Paul Rudolph excelled at. But the curtainwall skin I find offensive.

    Here's another recent project with the same type of angled, modular glazing. This is an office building in Seoul by Barkow Leibenger. I like much of their other work, but find this to be grotesque. Do we really want to see this on the river? At least Nouvel appeaars to be expressing the window frames instead of butt glazing the joints which is a much superior detail.





    Last edited by finnman69; April 10th, 2007 at 01:14 PM.

  6. #21

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    "scaleless" ? the building sits on a 7 story base.... has a cornice line. And despite the window treatment, the individual floors seem to be visible. That is not "scaleless".

    The above building is something else entirely, I don't see the comparison. Here the glass is tinsely, unfortunately highly mirrored. It's a straight-up-and-down box. And: the window frames on the Nouvel building create a texture. But even so....the Seoul building is not so bad at all.

    http://images.google.com/imgres?imgu...it-it%26sa%3DN

  7. #22

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    Still drilling caissons.

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by finnman69 View Post
    Gehry's building was really starting to grow on me, especially as a stand alone object.
    That's exactly my point. Gehry's building is a stand-alone icon, an anomaly in its context. It's also anti-urban, but that doesn't keep it from being a great building. (Although I also agree with many of the points Fabrizio made about Nouvel's design.)

    I think the setbacks and scale of massing of IAC is much more appropriate than Nouvel's scaleless fishscales.
    The setback in Gehry's building was mandated by the zoning.

    Nouvel's building will ruin the effect of Gehry's unique building.
    Why? What proof do you have of this?

    The context is not just the back face of Chelsea Piers and the river, but it's an urban edge of the Chelsea neighborhood. A changing neighborhood that is gritty, but a neighborhood with scale and context. This building ignores that edge completely.
    People said similar things about Time Warner before it was finished. A few years later, that project has redefined its context, for the better, in many people's opinions. So will this project.

    Also, it's not a standalone block site like the IAC,it's a corner site.
    Huh? IAC also sits on a corner, doesn't it?

    I understand if you don't like the facade, but I see nothing wrong with the building's structural plan. A curving facade is one of the best ways to make a corner building more sympathetic to its context.

  9. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stern View Post
    Both buildings were designed to face the Hudson waterfront, not the Westside Highway or the Chelsea Piers. The highway and the piers only mildly detract from the architects vision.
    That doesn't have much to do with 'context' though. That's all I'm saying. The context is not the waterfront.

  10. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by finnman69 View Post
    This look has been done before, and I am just not a fan of it. It's hyperactive ritalin addicted faddertecture.
    I am in complete and utter agreement with you here. It think this building looks nice in the renderings, and it has the potential to turn out quite well, but I don't see much relation between the design and its site. I'd say the exact same thing about "Blue" -- nice, but what does it have to do with anything, other than being so of-the-moment?

  11. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by Citytect View Post
    That doesn't have much to do with 'context' though. That's all I'm saying. The context is not the waterfront.
    That's like saying the United Nations context is the FDR.

  12. #27

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    "a bizarre combination that wnd up fighting each other for attention"

    As much as sails fight for attention with the water:

    http://www.ayresfineart.com/gallery/marine/PC281.jpg

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    As scaless as this?
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  13. #28
    Forum Veteran TREPYE's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fabrizio View Post
    "scaleless" ? the building sits on a 7 story base.... has a cornice line. And despite the window treatment, the individual floors seem to be visible. That is not "scaleless".

    QUOTE]

    scaleless

    the massing is way out of place for the neighborhood



    I think the IAC and Nouvel's building together are a bizarre combination that wnd up fighting each other for attention.
    Well hey, unlike 90% of residental projects a little aesthetic upshowing of each other is more than welcomed on my behalf. A bit of a nitpick IMO.

  14. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stern View Post
    That's like saying the United Nations context is the FDR.
    Look, I'm not going to continue going back and forth with you about this. The UN sits off the street grid in a parklike environment and there is not a another building between it and the water. Not the same context as this building. You disagree. Let's move on.

  15. #30
    Disgruntled Optimist lofter1's Avatar
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    Hmmmm ...

    Who will try to get the last word in on this one


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