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Thread: 50 East 57th Street @ 432 Park Avenue (former Drake Hotel site)

  1. #106

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    "I have yet to see any definitive evidence showing that form of capitalism produces better results (read: nicer architecture) than the so-called bad/corrupt form of Macklowe et al."

    Well if you're talking about Macklowe, yes, certainly the new WTC will have nicer architecture than what Macklowe is producing. I'll put my bets on: Foster, Calatrava, Rogers etc.

  2. #107

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    The city needs a Bureau of Architecture - not to dictate any particular style, but to set minimum standards for appearance relative to the location.

    A DOB for the way a building looks.

  3. #108
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    Agreed on that point, as long as David Childs is not named commisioner or kaufman

  4. #109
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    Knowing this city, I wouldn't be surprised if somehow Kaufman would be appointed Commissioner and O'Hara the Chair.

    They are licensed in this city (even people like Calatrava or Foster aren't!) and they have lots of experience.

  5. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fabrizio View Post
    Well if you're talking about Macklowe, yes, certainly the new WTC will have nicer architecture than what Macklowe is producing. I'll put my bets on: Foster, Calatrava, Rogers etc.
    In this one case, yes: but considering the profile of the WTC project, it'd be a tragedy if the results turned out to be at or below Macklowe standards. Imagine hiring SLCE to design the whole thing!

  6. #111

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    I can't wait to see how lame this building will be. When Lois, "the moron," Weiss was predicting some 900 landmark, I knew that Macklowe, a.k.a. Robert Moses Reincarnated, would build a 600 foot (maximum) piece of garbage, cheap, glass box.

  7. #112

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    Pianoman writes: "In this one case, yes"

    In this ONE case?

    "That form of capitalism" ...aid from "federal and state governments".... has also helped produce some of America's finest architecture.

    In NYC: the original WTC complex... love it or hate it , it was an iconic symbol of NYC... the view of it recognized around the world.

    How's about Lincoln Center and it's theatres....the UN complex ... and let's remember the private/public relationship of New York's great museum & library buildings.

    The great bridges, tunnels, the subway, the parks.... all great architecture too.

    Let's not forget the City Hall building. How about the Manhattan Municipal Building? "one of the largest governmental buildings in the world.".

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manhatt...cipal_Building

    And let's not forget this baby:

    http://www.anders.com/pictures/publi...%20City_sm.jpg

    And this is just NYC.


    ---
    Last edited by Fabrizio; May 9th, 2007 at 06:31 PM.

  8. #113
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    The city needs a Bureau of Architecture - not to dictate any particular style, but to set minimum standards for appearance relative to the location.
    AMEN to that!

  9. #114

    Default bureau of architecture = patronage system with bribes

    Back in the real world, a government bureacracy on personal taste, aside from an unreasonable intrustion on artistic expression, would become a way to block projects until bribes were paid to city officials. It would also be expensive to implement and raise costs, driving builders out of the city.

    When was the last time a government bureau created value artistically? Maybe you guys are confusing New York City with Moscow?

  10. #115
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    Default You can see the results in San Francisco.

    It's a city that rightly or wrongly has decided to reduce construction in the interest of very demanding building codes. Your reference to Moscow is about fifteen years late. There's lots of hideous residential construction going on there and many old buildings are being torn down illegally without proper due process.

  11. #116

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    Here is good capitalism with the help from the good will of the city of Chicago:

    The Chicago Spire Receives Final Approval from The Chicago City Council

    Construction on Calatrava’s Architectural Icon to Begin within the Month

    CHICAGO--(BUSINESS WIRE)--Shelbourne Development Group, Inc. announced that The Chicago Spire, an iconic building designed by internationally renowned architect and engineer Santiago Calatrava, received final approval today from the 50-member Chicago City Council. This action follows unanimous approval from both the City Council Planning Commission and the Zoning Committee in April. The Chicago Spire is scheduled for completion in late 2010 with construction expected to begin this month.

    “The city of Chicago has enthusiastically embraced Mr. Calatrava’s vision, and we are both thrilled and humbled by the opportunity to add another architectural icon to the city’s skyline,” said Garrett Kelleher, executive chairman of Shelbourne Development Ltd. & the Shelbourne Development Group, Inc. “The Chicago Spire will be the world’s most celebrated address, and we look forward to beginning construction in a matter of weeks.”

    The Chicago Spire, designed by a development team with experience in constructing some of the most prominent properties in the world, will provide a lifestyle unsurpassed by any other distinguished residence in the United States or abroad. Located at 400 North Lake Shore Drive, where the Chicago River meets Lake Michigan, the 2,000-foot tall elegantly twisting tower will house 1,200 unique residences with the finest amenities available anywhere in the world.

    The Chicago Spire extends Santiago Calatrava’s artistic vision to create a modern and technologically advanced residential experience. Among its many extraordinary features, The Chicago Spire will include a spectacular four-story transparent glass lobby, unparalleled views from all residences, a six-story underground resident parking garage for 1,350 cars, and a one-acre landscaped public plaza.

    The building will feature several innovations in engineering, including the world’s longest elevator run, a steel perimeter and concrete core. Also, The Chicago Spire will be engineered to meet the gold standard of LEED certification, which dictates among other things that rainwater be recycled for landscaping treatments, river water be used for cooling and special glass be included to protect migratory birds. Shelbourne is currently receiving bids for the caissons, which are part of The Chicago Spire’s support structure.

    The Chicago sales center will be located in the NBC Tower, which overlooks The Chicago Spire site. The sales effort will be led by United Kingdom-based Savills, Plc. and will launch in early fall 2007 with a global marketing campaign. Savills is a leading international property advisor with experience marketing some of the finest residences around the globe, including One Hyde Park in London, and the Four Seasons Ocean Residence, a private ship.

    For more information about The Chicago Spire and Shelbourne Development Group, Inc., see http://www.shelbournedevelopment.com/ and http://www.thechicagospire.com.

    About Shelbourne Development

    Shelbourne Development, headquartered in Dublin, is one of Ireland's leading property development companies, widely regarded as one of the country’s most professional and progressive developers. In the past three years, Shelbourne’s experienced team, known for its track record in evaluating and capitalizing on cycles in property markets, has completed in excess of 1.5 million square feet of construction in Ireland. It currently has a development pipeline in Dublin in excess of $2 billion US. Shelbourne is currently pursuing developments and projects in Ireland, UK, France and Chicago. Garrett Kelleher, executive chairman of Shelbourne Development Ltd & the Shelbourne Development Group, Inc. holds significant investment properties in Europe.

  12. #117

    Default chicago proves the issue with patronage jobs

    Chicago is a city with a high crime rate that has managed to use patronage and corruption to keep a single family in office for 50 years, and where police can beat a girl up in a bar and they only get fired because it was on national news. My problem is your proposal generates patronage and corruption, which is unacceptable - Chicago proves this. Why not have government approve what movies we can watch to make sure they are also tasteful? It's been tried, ya know.

    And I simply don't believe the city council was the creator of grand design here. This is a "super tall" building. When people build super tall buildings, they make them nice because their visibility and grace is part of what you're selling. They're not doing it to please government bureaus.

  13. #118

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    Quote Originally Posted by investordude View Post
    Back in the real world, a government bureacracy on personal taste,
    I said this:
    not to dictate any particular style, but to set minimum standards for appearance

    Quote Originally Posted by investordude
    When was the last time a government bureau created value artistically?
    It's been done in New York with historic districts. And landmark laws are much more restrictive on developers than what I'm proposing.

    Quote Originally Posted by investordude
    Maybe you guys are confusing New York City with Moscow?
    Can't you think of other examples besides Moscow?

    Quote Originally Posted by investordude
    Why not have government approve what movies we can watch to make sure they are also tasteful?
    Overblown. Reads like a anti gun-control argument.

    Quote Originally Posted by investordude
    When people build super tall buildings, they make them nice because their visibility and grace is part of what you're selling. They're not doing it to please government bureaus.
    Then why are so many of them not nice?

  14. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZippyTheChimp View Post
    The city needs a Bureau of Architecture - not to dictate any particular style, but to set minimum standards for appearance relative to the location.
    A fantastic, but by no means original idea. The fact that a city of New York's beauty essentially has only the landmarks commision and NIMBYs (who can't be trusted to make decisions on quality) to check development is frightening. And with the current construction boom I feel like there is a real urgency to the issue. All we need is a few celebrities to champion our cause and make this a high priority political issue.

  15. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by lbjefferies View Post
    A fantastic, but by no means original idea. The fact that a city of New York's beauty essentially has only the landmarks commision and NIMBYs (who can't be trusted to make decisions on quality) to check development is frightening. And with the current construction boom I feel like there is a real urgency to the issue. All we need is a few celebrities to champion our cause and make this a high priority political issue.
    Call Alec Baldwin, he needs to do something to help his image

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