Originally Posted by ablarc
I don't think so. This is not that one ugly building that you get used to...you know... the ugly building that you sort of filter out. This is a massive attack... how many hotels are these guys building?
Oh, I dunno. Most of these are in lifeless backwater areas that you'd never visit anyway, Fabrizio. They'll modestly enliven those areas. Hardly a massive attack.
27 to 36, depending on who you mean by "these guys":
Economic necessity for these piles?
NYC has had record numbers of tourists over the past 5 years WITHOUT this crud.
So there is no way that any argument of necessity holds water when trying to justify how these look.
And I'm amazed that architects (admittedly I am not one) on this site are justifying these as innocuous, background, better than a parking lot. It exhibits a lack of imagination to take the position that this is all one can get for the money.
Regarding similar garbage outside NYC: I've been looking for a place to stay in a specific locale (2 rooms / 1 night) for an upcoming trip on the west coast and all I can find are these disgusting Comfort Inn / La Quinta dry-vit covered faux-Spanish Colonial boxes on the highway (I've been digging around for hours). They all seem to be built by corporate frick heads without any sense of life in their brains. Give me an old-fashioned 1960s TraveLodge anyday.
And now that they have what they regard as a reasonable place to stay, there will be even more. If enough of these are built, the price of a room might even come down.
Waving the banner of imagination at the arrayed forces of America's corporate hierarchy is like standing in front of a tank in Tienanmen Square. To them, it's not a question of imagination, but science. The science of good business and maximized profit.It exhibits a lack of imagination to take the position that this is all one can get for the money.
Sure, anyone can imagine something better: you and I both. They'll dismiss you summarily because you're not an architect, and they'll dismiss me because I am.
What do you want to do? Can I interest you in a truckload of fertilizer?
How many preservation letters have you sent to the authorities, lofter? Pick the battles you can influence.
And my point is: if we weren't such supercilious snobs full of the certainty of our own infallible taste, we'd see that these things are nowhere near as bad as a lot of other abominations. We let those go by because as vehicles to display our knowing and refined taste, they're not nearly as juicy. Easy virtue.
Eureka.They all seem to be built by corporate frick heads without any sense of life in their brains.
"Build you bottom line from the carpet up" quote Dupont'
I personally find these building to be "innocuous" and agree with some members on this thread who or are making - what I view as being - a more reasonable assessment of this Architects work.
Mediocre designs ARE an economic necessity, but more to the point of what Ablarc was saying: they are an inevitability given the PROGRAM this architect MUST follow.
Consider this perspective. The "disconcerting" window spacing on the facade of the building is a function of the physical dimensions of each of the individual hotel rooms behind them: in turn, the room dimensions are a function of the current 'mill-runn width' of commercial grade carpeting.
In a sense, one could say the aesthetic design of this "ugly" building has been determined by the carpet manufacturing industry; Thus the quote (taken from the Dupont site) "build your bottom line from the carpet up".
So if any one entity is to be held accountable for the "disconcerting appearance" of this building; it is at 'Dupont' that I am pointing the finger of blame.
And - in closing on a positve note - at least we can thank Mr.Kaufmans' (and his mediocre designs) for bringing about what I think is one of the best threads I have ever read here at wiredNY.
Last edited by infoshare; February 24th, 2008 at 11:03 AM.
Har har har.
Only a depression or disaster will cause that to happen, not an increase in supply.
Amazing how successful that one fellow was in the face of that approaching tank.
Watching on the TV back then we all were sure that young Chinese fellow was dead meat. But something human happened (although it just might be that the Chinese authorities did dastardly things to that brave soul once they got him out of public view --BUT it is also possible that the memory of his brave act still sits in the minds of the Chinese people and that image will one day give them the impetus to rise and claim their rights).
For the record let's be clear that you made this offer. I don't accept delivery.
Straw man. You know full well that almost all the Chang / Kaufman buildings are not in distrcits that have any protections.
In the case such as Kaufman's 1 Greene where there was a review process I took part, but -- alas -- the wizards at the Community Board & LPC deemed the faux historicism to be "good enough".
In another case (Rector / Trinity Place) I submitted a request for Landmark Consideration, but received a reply from LPC that since Chang had already submitted a building permit that the building was a goner.
You misunderstood me. What I was trying to say was: in addition to grousing about something not very important that you can't do anything about (Kaufman), have you invested time and effort into causes that are/were important and that you can/could have influence(d)?
You could have written about Midtown townhouses, for example, or Washington Square or the Pennsylvania Hotel or 2 Columbus Circle. Did you?
(Btw, if you think you spy a straw man in one of my posts, read it over to be sure; I try to give them a wide berth, but my syntax is often imperfect.
He was trying to stop the government, not jut the tank. Government's policy stayed the same.
.
Last edited by ablarc; February 24th, 2008 at 11:08 AM. Reason: added second quote and response.
Another Worthy Cause: Grants Tomb
As a side note: don't forget Grants Tomb Terrace - Recently the entire roof structure (and some of the doric colums) have come crashing down. I often wonder why this one is being ignored and left to rot: while other - far less important - preservation issues get massive public protest. This is perhaps due to what the clinical psychiatry field refers to by the acronym: SADD - Selective' Attention Deficit Disorder. (LOL)
http://www.wirednewyork.com/forum/sh...9&postcount=11
http://www.wirednewyork.com/forum/sh...87&postcount=2
Sorry to digress ....... I will get back to the topic.
Last edited by infoshare; February 24th, 2008 at 11:31 AM.
^ Yeah, this one is a three-alarm fire. Who do we write to? Benepe? The Feds?
Somebody organize an e-mail campaign, complete with addresses and names (he suggested, dumping it in the lap of others
A WiredNY challenge
I propose a WiredNY challenge: I will pick this topic up on Grants Tomb thread. Basically I would like to get a few of us to agree keep this (grants tomb that is) topic active here on WNY and regularly add as much content (photos/links/graphic) & commentary as possible (given what ever limited time we each have) as often and as best we possibly can - nothing more than that need be done. i think it will get public attention as a result: I will start by posting new photos of the site conditions TODAY - any additional help posting to that thread from other members would be great.Somebody organize an e-mail campaign, complete with addresses and names (he suggested, dumping it in the lap of others
See you on the GRANTS TOMB thread.
cheers
^ Let's get rolling!
You seem to have a problem with the west side?!
And use your low opinion of it to help justify placing
all this crap architecture there. (and we are being pelted with it)
An area is only as good as what you make of it.Oh, I dunno. Most of these are in lifeless backwater areas that you'd never visit anyway, Fabrizio. They'll modestly enliven those areas. Hardly a massive attack.
I understand your points about what Kaufman has to work with however....
Keep piling garbage like this all in the same neighborhood and it WILL actually become an area you'd never want to visit!
I'm sorry BUT....the areas on the west side that these affronts
to the eye are springing up in are NOT backwater areas!
That horrible pile posted a few back are right off 8th ave.
less than a block from the new Times building.
With all the construction in the area these piles will soon be in a prime location!
As a resident of the west side, (and one that has to see 7 of these awful eyesores) every time I look out my windows),
I would actually have preferred the parking lots to look at,
a much taller and grander building, or even a facade that used a plain one colour brick motif- rather than the skittles and
McDonalds Red lipstick brick patterns that Gene uses.
scumonkey, this is nonsense. Chill out.
I don't find it nonsense .... and I was chilled till I read through half your posts on the subject.
I understand a lot of what you have had to say ( and don't disagree with it),
but I don't half to agree with all of it, or keep my mouth closed when I hear something that I think is nonsense!
^ That's right, and you don't have to attribute attitudes of malice to people ex nihilo.
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