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Thread: One Madison Park - 22 East 23rd Street - by Cetra/Ruddy Inc.

  1. #31
    Crabby airline hostess - stache's Avatar
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    Cool

    Thank you sfenn!

  2. #32
    Forum Veteran macreator's Avatar
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    I wish they'd reskin the Merchandise Mart building. It looks so awful wedged between the beauties that are the Metlife Tower, and the NY Life building.

  3. #33
    Disgruntled Optimist lofter1's Avatar
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    I second that ^ motion ...

    And maybe lop off about 15-20 floors

    278020




  4. #34
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    Lofter,

    You finally got a camera?

  5. #35
    Disgruntled Optimist lofter1's Avatar
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    LOL --

    Nope ... just grabbed those pics from the web

  6. #36

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    There are some empty, dilpidated buildings a little to the east of this site. I hope that they're razed too. The rest of this block, however, has some beautiful, ornate buildings.

  7. #37

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    July 2006
    When new condos kill views
    By Vanessa Londono

    More views vanishing quickly amidst new development, much to buyers' chagrin

    http://www.therealdeal.net/issues/JU...1151611273.php

    The block-long 15 Central Park West, foreground, during construction earlier this year, was set to blot out some of the park views of twin-towered 25 Central Park West.
    John Mehigan, a broker at Domain Properties, was about to close a deal on a seventh-floor apartment at 21 East 22nd Street earlier this year when it fell through.

    The buyer heard about a 40-story residential tower going up at 20 East 23rd Street and decided he didn't want an obscured view from the pied-a-terre, which faced north.

    "He had a cityscape view and partial view of [Madison Square] Park which would have been completely obstructed," Mehigan said. "He didn't want to be looking into someone else's apartment or have someone looking in on him."


    The views buyers are willing to pay top dollar for are constantly changing with the proliferation of new residential development throughout the city, like the 23rd Street building.

    "The only thing certain is that views are never certain," said Jonathan Miller, president of Miller Samuel appraisers. "When brokers sell a view, there is no guarantee; they sell it for how it is right now."

    Despite the occasional impermanence of views, apartment listings are quick to mention their scenic sights. But as more new condo towers rise in Manhattan, there will be fewer views in existing buildings and they will become more and more valuable, said Jeffrey Jackson, chairman of appraisal firm Mitchell, Maxwell and Jackson.

    The value of views has risen over the past two decades, Jackson said (see below). "We are more appreciative of views today as an urban society than in the past," he said.

    To ensure the longevity of a view, Miller suggests having a zoning attorney look at properties in the sight line of the apartment in question. "So many times, people already know how many stories a building will be," he said.

    But, Miller added, it can be hard to determine whether to buy an expensive property when buyers are uncomfortable not knowing exactly how the sight line will turn out.

    Residents near a public park or on the waterfront may have a more secure view, but that is not always the case. For years, residents of 25 Central Park West had views of the park over the empty lot that's now the home to 15 Central Park West, whose advertisements now boast full views of Central Park.

    "Many people buy apartments based on what is physically there and not what potentially could be there," Jackson said.

    Completed in 2001, the development of Trump World Tower on First Avenue had residents of 100 United Nations Plaza bearing price reductions and difficulties selling their units. However, there are times where view blocking can increase the property value, according to Corcoran Group senior vice president Greg Kammerer.

    "The construction of the Lincoln Towers [on the Upper West Side] worked as a positive," Kammerer said. "The expensive limestone buildings enhanced the neighborhood."

    When an entire complex of properties like the Lincoln Towers is developed, it elevates the value of neighboring properties, translating into higher property values.

    "There is a loss of scenic view but the association to the new units and upgrade in retail services increases the property value," Miller said. "However, more times than not, the view is blocked, but the neighborhood remains unchanged."

    More vulnerable to changes are buildings with views facing the lot line. According to Miller, the building code requires windows to have chicken wire glass when zoning allows another building to be right up against it. "Enjoy the view while it lasts," he said. "It has a shorter time frame."

    Buyers should also be wary of low-rise buildings, gas stations and garages that may be developed.

    Whatever may lay ahead, Miller maintains that views in terms of value to an apartment carry the most weight at the point of sale, and changes in views matter less over time. "It's one of those things that it's just a factor of life here; the skyline is not fixed," he said. "Over the years, it's been incremental changes, but it's constantly occurring."


    Manhattan views grow pricier

    Views have become an increasingly important factor in apartment value in Manhattan. "The value of a view has increased a magnitude of two to five times in the past 10 years," said Jeffrey Jackson, chairman of appraiser Mitchell, Maxwell and Jackson. "Having good natural light improves people's state of mind. We are more concerned about having a view than before."

    An analysis by Mitchell, Maxwell and Jackson shows the price differential between Manhattan apartments with a view and without a view growing over the last two decades.

    In 1983, apartments without views compared to apartments with views had a 10 percent difference in the price. But in 2005, the same apartments were resold with a 38 percent difference in price, the analysis found.

    Another study by the appraisal firm looked at three of developer Donald Trump's condominium buildings.

    In 1983, the difference in prices of a two-bedroom apartment with a view was 31 percent. In 1995, the difference was 71 percent, and in 2004, the difference in prices for an apartment with a view was 148 percent.

    "The markets now recognize the value of light and views and developers now price much more aggressively for this," Jackson said.

    The impact of view on overall property values can vary, with breathtaking views making up 20 to 40 percent of a given apartment's value, said Jonathan Miller, president of appraisal firm Miller Samuel.

    The size of the view determines how valuable it is to the overall apartment. A river view from a studio would have a smaller value in dollar amount in comparison to the exposure of an eight-room apartment.

  8. #38

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    "The only thing certain is that views are never certain,"
    And that's how it should be.

  9. #39

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    Does anyone know what's going on with the series of about 3 dumpy buildings just east of this site? They appear to be empty and have scaffolding on them. I hope that they'll be demolished.

  10. #40

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    Here's a pic taken 8/13 that showing the site.


    That building across from the Flatiron is worse than the relationship between Woolworth and 10 Barclay.

  11. #41
    Forum Veteran krulltime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Derek2k3 View Post
    That building across from the Flatiron is worse than the relationship between Woolworth and 10 Barclay.

    I believe those are rental apartments. The only thing that might save us is that some developer buys the property and converted to condominiums and change the hideous facade on the building.

  12. #42

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    60-story condo for Madison Square Park
    Construction is set to start on a two-building condo tower on the site of a former McDonalds on the busy edge of Madison Square Park. The Saya, at 20 East 23rd Street, will have views of the park, but will open onto 22nd Street, thereby sparing condo owners the often noisy 23rd Street sidewalk.

    The Saya will be, at 60 stories, one of the tallest buildings in the Madison Square Park area, which has seen fresh residential development recently with the nine-unit 50 Madison and the 192-unit Grand Madison at 225 Fifth Avenue (the former Gift Building). Condos at 50 Madison sold out last fall at $1,200 a square foot.

    The 90 units of the Saya, including 18 full-floor ones and a 7,500-square-foot triplex, will range from $1 million to $6 million, with the triplex priced at $30 million. Slazer Development is developing the project, and Cantor Pecorella will start the marketing in January. The Saya is expected to open in 2008. By Vanessa Londono

  13. #43
    Disgruntled Optimist lofter1's Avatar
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    LL: Where did you find that article? Maybe the PR people have gotten ahead of themselves (read on).

    I'm not in favor of 60 stories on this site ...

    From many areas downtown that will be right in front of the Met Life tower, thus ruining another great NYC vista.

    BOOOO -- HISSSSS -- BOOOOOOOOOO

    Looks like DOB doesn't like it so much either ...

    The "Last Action" on the original "New Building" Application filed on 5.24.06 shows it was DISAPPROVED by the Plan Examiner on 8.28.06.

    That original Application still says 47 Stories / 544 Feet / 97 Dwelling Units on that active "New Building" Application.


    A new DOB Application (Filed 8.24.06: "INSTALL FOUNDATION IN CONJUNCTION WITH NEW BUILDING #104444175") states:
    Last Action: APPLICATION PROCESSED - ENTIRE 08/28/2006 (D)
    This new Application also states: 47 Stories / 544 Feet / 97 Dwelling Units

  14. #44

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    Hi, Lofter.

    I found it on therealdeal.net.

    PS: I want to see the dumpy buildings to the east demolished. They appear to be empty.

  15. #45
    Disgruntled Optimist lofter1's Avatar
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    Looking at the photo above at least one building to the east of the empty lot will have to come down in order for the 23rd St. site to connect direct through to W. 22nd as is described.

    The "Metes and Bounds" on the DOB New Building App. describe a frontage on E. 23rd of 125' and frontage on W. 22nd of 33' (offset from each other). To my eye that means that little one on E. 22nd in the photo (to the east of the large white apartment building) is coming down -- and most likely the 6-story on E. 23rd that butts up againgst it (and maybe more).
    Last edited by lofter1; August 28th, 2006 at 09:01 PM.

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