Manhattan vs. Hoboken

[KenNYC]

Could someone give me some decent pro's for living on Manhattan instead of Hoboken? As an out-of-country resident it's hard to do much research on my own - would be great to have some arguments. Been talking to a business partner of my father who lives in Hoboken and finds the idea of living on Manhattan totally ridiculous... I'd like to tell him to STFU, but would be nice to have something more substantial.

[RandySavage]

After college I lived in Hoboken for a year before moving into Manhattan.

The pros for me:
- Hoboken is a young, prosperous, bustling city; it feels like a burgeoning 6th borough of Manhattan overflowing with young professionals (can be good or bad depending on your age).
- It is condensed (1 square mile), so you can walk almost anywhere.
- Rents/bars/food are slightly less expensive than Manhattan (you get more for your buck).
- It's got a ton of really good, less pretentious bars and restaurants and some of my favorite pizza/Italian food anywhere.
- The river views of Manhattan are spectacular.
- The commute (I took New York Waterway ferry to Downtown) can be like taking a photo cruise two times every day.
- The PATH makes it relatively cheap and easy to get in and out of the City.
- The NJ Transit station makes it easy to get to the Jersey suburbs.

The cons:
- Hoboken is not Manhattan. In Hoboken, you can't step out of your apartment and immediately sense the NYC streetlife. In Hoboken, you can't pass some of America's greatest historical and architectural landmarks on your way to buy a jar of peanut butter. You can't jump on subway for 5 minutes or walk to the best museums, theaters and parks on the planet.

Also, when I was living in Hoboken, all of my friends lived in Manhattan, so afterwork drinks would be in Manhattan without exception. It can be difficult to PATH it back to Hoboken after a night of heavy imbibing - I typically would pass out, miss the Hoboken stop and wake up back at 33rd.

In sum, in Manhattan you get less for your dollar, but this is more than made up for in location and convenience. The only time I would recommend living in Hoboken over Manhattan is if: (i) you have a number of friends who live in Hoboken, (ii) most of your social excursions will take place in Hoboken rather than in Manhattan, (iii) you need the additional living space your dollar affords you in Hoboken and (iv) you're not inclined to spend a lot of time exploring the streets, parks, and cultural institutions of NYC.

[KenNYC]

Thanks, your summary pretty much excludes Hoboken for me on every single point.

[Sunnygirl]

RandySavage makes a good point re: the drinking. I got - um - a bit wasted in Hoboken, and then my sister had to drive me back to the UWS - thank godness she had a car, because I would not have made it back on the subway ... and would have probably given the cabbie my entire savings

[718Bound]

Also, when I was living in Hoboken, all of my friends lived in Manhattan, so afterwork drinks would be in Manhattan without exception. It can be difficult to PATH it back to Hoboken after a night of heavy imbibing - I typically would pass out, miss the Hoboken stop and wake up back at 33rd.

Oh man LMAO... Not laughing at you but that is one of the few things as of late that actually made laugh out loud as I read it on a forum... I started thinking about how much that would suck if it happened to me, knowing me and how I kinda "nap" sometimes during or after drinking.... ..but damn that made me laugh even harder because if I lived in NJ I could totally see myself dozing off on the "PATH home" at like 2-4am after a fun night and waking up at like 6 or 8 am on the PATH train going "opps I musta dozed off, was I snoring?" lmao

[Ninjahedge]

Thanks, your summary pretty much excludes Hoboken for me on every single point.

OK, been living here for about 11 years now (maybe more! Lost track).

It has some very good and bad points.

All depends on what you are looking for.

Parking: Sux. Less than Manhattan, but you tend to need it a bit more.

Groceries: Shop Rite moved in and the selection/price is MUCH better than most of the places in Manhattan, Queens, Brooklyn, the Bronx or any other place this close to downtown.

Beer: Plenty of it. The bars are nice (for the most part) and some better than others. Depends on what you are looking for. Reminds me of more of a White Bread Bleeker street. Manhattan is better (Blind Tiger is still my #1) but it is very easily reached by the path thrain 24/7, and if you are not prone to passing out, you can stuble home pretty easily (4am, 6am, whatever).

The commute is great if you are going to the financial district, or midtown up to around 33rd street. The West Village is also very easy to get to. Everything else takes a bit of time. Getting across to places like Park Slope or Brooklyn Heights will take forever...

Hoboken, unfortunately, is not as friendly. It has a bunch of new people moving in who already have their circles. Since their friends are all from around the area, they don't really go out of their way to meet new people, so it gets kind of sterile (especially since, ironically, most of the weekenders are coming from out of town and a lot of the Hobokenites are either in the city or down the shore).

It is not HOSTILE. Not anymore, at least. Also, the cops have gotten a bit nicer as well (they used to like to throw their weight around a lot on weekends. Gentrification has mellowed that a bit, but not when yuppies first started "invading").

Rent is cheap. It doe snot look like it, but many of the buildings around befor 1970-something are rent controlled. Call City Hall and ask Carol McLaughlin about it. Be nice! I had a 650 SF apartment, right downtown in Hoboken for about $700 a month.

That's about it I guess. All depends on what you are looking for. Hoboken is fine if you like the city, but it is slightly less divergent, diversified and exciting. But you hop on a train and you are there (and I have been there quite a lot). You work in Manhattan and it is pretty easy to stay out after work and come home later.

Do you have any other concerns? Food (great Thai, a cheap Steak place, and some comfy places as well as more trendy places here), music (Maxwells, Scotland Yard, or various generic weekend cover band bars), activities (ski club, movies in the park, volleyball league, soccer, etc)?

Let us know what you want and I will see if I can answer it.....

[Caspar]

I had a 650 SF apartment, right downtown in Hoboken for about $700 a month.

Whoa.

Hoboken sounds like a perfect place to live. At first anyway.

[Ninjahedge]

Sorta. There are problems, like i said.

It is pretty much filled with either "Townies" (long time residents), Project People from the "dead presidents" (streets like Jefferson), and "OMG I am living away from my parents after college!" Yuppies (25-35).

As the area got gentrified, the yuppies stayed longer and you now see the Saturday Stroller Brigade walking the streets (people used to move out, en force, when the kid was old enough to travel. About 1-2 years old).

Park space is at a minimum, and they have built a LOT of condos with no real contribution to green space or expansion of the town center, but I have to admt I am spoiled.

I have not been able to find another place that would offer such convenience (walking distance to supermarket, dry cleaners, Korean grocery, dozens of restaurants) in the Suburbs w/o paying using all my current assets plus my left kidney.

It is a very nice place, but has its problems as well. The place I had was originally rented to me back in 98 (or so) for $800, afterthe landlord made a silly $4 blunder no my rent increase, I was curious and asked around. Turned out he was cheating me for a while. I got about $2000 back from him, and got my rent lowered to $650 (he did not apply for tax abatement/carriage correctly, so he was forced to pay the taxes on my unit till years end).

Give you an ide on what a nice guy he was. Upstairs there were two women renting the identical footprint for $1500 a month. They contested him, got $6000 back and lowered rent to somewhere near $750.

He took them to court because two were living there and only one was on the lease. Yeah, $1500 a month is fine to do whatever you want for 6 months, but force him to follow the rules and that is another story.

6 months later they moved out. I have been tempted to write to all the residents there letting them know about the rent control. Maybe at Christmas. The guy was such a troll.

Anyway, like I said, mixed bag. If you go to Hoboken, make sure that you get what you can afford in the first place, THEN check rent control. You may be pleasantly surprised!

[MrSpice]

Could someone give me some decent pro's for living on Manhattan instead of Hoboken? As an out-of-country resident it's hard to do much research on my own - would be great to have some arguments. Been talking to a business partner of my father who lives in Hoboken and finds the idea of living on Manhattan totally ridiculous... I'd like to tell him to STFU, but would be nice to have something more substantial.

The main advantage of Hoboken is that you don't have to pay NYC tax. Especially if you work on the NJ side, that can save you a few thousands a year. Plus, the real estate prices - while high - still lower than those in comparable areas of Manhattan. And, like the rest of good NJ towns, it's a bit cleaner than your average street in Manhattan.

[KenNYC]

Appreciate the advice, but since I already got an apartment in Battery Park it's not really an issue for me anymore, I'm sure others here are debating the same decision though.

[AmeriKenArtist]

... that living in Battery Park would be a "quiet gem".. no?

[KenNYC]

Oh, yeah it's great that way. I'm like right north of WFC, so I got the entire esplanade where I usually go for walks in the night etc, there's little traffic (although some dude got hit by a taxi at West Hwy yesterday ), and it's quite nice. Coming from typical suburban areas I find BPC a lot more pleasant than I had expected was possible on Manhattan.

There's a bit of construction going on here still (Goldman Sachs, Milstein buildings and Visionaire mainly), when they are done I think the area will be quite superb.

[MikeKruger]

I am curious about this "rent-controlled" thing. If the building is managed by a corporation, could they still be charging you higher rent than they are allowed to?

My building is pretty old and uptown. Won't give more details because of privacy issues.

[KenNYC]

I can't imagine so, that being said the 'max rate' they can charge (at least in my case) is _a lot_ higher than market rate, they could charge me a solid $1200 more a month than they are by law, so I'm not sure how much this is actually doing to keep rents down.

[Ninjahedge]

I am curious about this "rent-controlled" thing. If the building is managed by a corporation, could they still be charging you higher rent than they are allowed to?

Yes. Friends of ours were in a medium sized building at 4th and Hudson. The building is actually kind of sad (tilting chimneys, a sagging and tilted staircase supported now by tube steel inside).

They had theirs checked, along with others, and it went down significantly.

Now the corporate (small) owners are trying to challange the law in court. Sad stuff. I would fee more for them if they had put something INTO the building to make it better, but they were just preppie slumlords.

My building is pretty old and uptown. Won't give more details because of privacy issues.

Call Carol McLaughlin over at City Hall and ask her nicely about it. She is really helpful so long as you are courteous about it.

Helped me when I was renting to get a load of cash back from my landlord. Just make sure that you are following your lease to the letter if you stand to get some $$. Some of these guys will try to fid any way to give you the boot to put some other ignorant (sorry) renter in your place that will ean them more money for the same capital output....