Page 3 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast
Results 31 to 45 of 67

Thread: Transportation for America

  1. #31

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ninjahedge View Post
    So how many of the 33% would ride the rail if they could bring their car?
    It doesn't matter. You don't need any of them; you have 54% who would prefer rail. Since rail ridership is now one-third of one percent, the majority of the 54% aren't getting that opportunity; they're in cars or airplanes. They're the ones you are targeting.

    As I said, you're not trying to make rail the dominant transport mode. That's not the case anywhere; probably only Japan even approaches it.

  2. #32

    Default

    While I so support High Speed Rail Tranportation, here is few of the main points to get Car Drivers and Plane Riders to ride our rail system:
    • First things first, Rail transportation needs to be quicker and safer than Jet Travel, as well as cheaper, which is stated below.
    • Infrastrucutural accessiblity, Public tranportation (e.g. Bus and Subway), Taxis and personal vehicles must be able to drop off people at one location around the station.
    • Travel ease, Every Rail Station needs to be ADA compliant and people need to be able to get on and off the train comfortably.
    • Rail transport attraction, Every train's price should be more afforable to all people, it shall not exceed the average plane ticket price to a destination.
    • Rail tranport comfort, Every train should have it's food cooked on board and it's food must be more delicious than plane food. Long Distance or lengthy train trips should provide a customer with better and cheaper options like bedrooms, and every train shall not be so short, it should be at least 12 cars long with plenty of train cars with beds.
    These are just some of the ways to attract people, also people should get to know rail transportation and our country needs to move more agressively to reach out to people. It is not like this method of transportation is not possible, it is just that us as consumers aren't satified with out rail system and not capable of showing our ideas for a practical and efficient rail system. Like China, Japan, India, Europe and many countries are all using their Rail System and their High Speed Rail Systems, why can't we?

  3. #33

    Default

    The question is, can this be done in an economically viable fashion (not requiring permanent operating subsidies). I tend to think not. I don't think it has anywhere else it's tried. These things tend to get built as public works, economic stimulus type projects.

    Quote Originally Posted by ForestHillsGardens View Post
    While I so support High Speed Rail Tranportation, here is few of the main points to get Car Drivers and Plane Riders to ride our rail system:
    • First things first, Rail transportation needs to be quicker and safer than Jet Travel, as well as cheaper, which is stated below.
    • Infrastrucutural accessiblity, Public tranportation (e.g. Bus and Subway), Taxis and personal vehicles must be able to drop off people at one location around the station.
    • Travel ease, Every Rail Station needs to be ADA compliant and people need to be able to get on and off the train comfortably.
    • Rail transport attraction, Every train's price should be more afforable to all people, it shall not exceed the average plane ticket price to a destination.
    • Rail tranport comfort, Every train should have it's food cooked on board and it's food must be more delicious than plane food. Long Distance or lengthy train trips should provide a customer with better and cheaper options like bedrooms, and every train shall not be so short, it should be at least 12 cars long with plenty of train cars with beds.
    These are just some of the ways to attract people, also people should get to know rail transportation and our country needs to move more agressively to reach out to people. It is not like this method of transportation is not possible, it is just that us as consumers aren't satified with out rail system and not capable of showing our ideas for a practical and efficient rail system. Like China, Japan, India, Europe and many countries are all using their Rail System and their High Speed Rail Systems, why can't we?

  4. #34

    Default

    I, for one, cannot wait to move to NYC and not own a car. It's going to be a godsend.

  5. #35

    Default

    @BBMW:
    Well, for the short run it is not a good deal. While as the population grows and on the long run, the rail transportation is the best bet because expanding Road & Air Transportation systems is much more expensive as well as less 'green'. 1 'Scheduled' Train Consist can eliminate 1,000s of cars off the road and 100s of jets off the air and busses off the road. I feel it is economically viable in the long run, not the short run. While we should start building these days, at least to Europe's level...

  6. #36

    Default

    ^
    This isn't a theoretical issue. Has the Shinkonsen <no way I'm spelling that correctly> gotten anywhere near break even (I'm not even asking it to turn a profit)? The TGV?

    And again, I'm not so much against HSR, so much as not look at it as a panacea, and not try to jam it into situations where it's going to be an inferior solution. Where it does make sense it should be done.

  7. #37

    Default

    @BBMW:
    Well, it is at least an great investment in the long run, HSR is way faster than a regular Amtrak Train and much comfortable to ride than jets. I also feel that it'll thrive if the price of HSR is comparable to road transportation prices, not the price of operating jets. I feel the main problem in America is rail transportation is too expensive, way too expensive and not competitive. If the price was to be more affordable for all people, including at least the upper-end of the poor, it would be an hit. Just add more railcars onto the line and work harder, it would work.

  8. #38

    Default

    Architects Get on Board


    SOM's Peter Ruggiero wants architects to fight for a new age
    of infrastructure, with high-speed rail leading the way



    A high-speed train crossing a viaduct in the Spanish countryside


    The past 100 years have witnessed the best and worst of times for American transportation infrastructure. A relatively short evolution from dirt streets and horse-drawn carriages to bullet trains and commercial jet aircraft has forever altered the design of transportation infrastructure. These systems require design that is not only functional but also beautiful, responding to the natural features of the locale and fostering a sense of community value and identity. As architects, planners, and engineers, we have a civic obligation to reinvolve ourselves in the design of infrastructure initiatives, just as we did more than a half-century ago.

    When America’s love affair with automobile travel began in earnest during the years following World War II, a new highway system was born, unrivaled anywhere else in the world. Crisscrossing the United States and incorporating massive bridges, tunnels, and other engineering feats, this new system of roads was celebrated for both its beauty and its innovation. During the mid-20th century, architects were called upon to design solutions that would make driving a more aesthetically pleasing experience. New York builder Robert Moses, for example, proposed plans for a six-lane Central Motor Expressway in 1953 that would run from Manhattan to the Eastern end of Long Island, taking advantage of existing parks and boulevards in Queens. His grand idea for a “romantic drive” through parkland was short-lived; Moses’ vision has become what we know today as the Long Island Expressway.

    As the highway movement gained momentum, beautification campaigns, many led by the federal government, lobbied to remove billboards and junkyards from the nation’s highways and to replace them with wildflowers and parkland. Wayside oases sprung up along the highways, offering food, lodging, and entertainment for weary travelers. Throughout these changes, America led the charge in the design and development of infrastructure and transportation systems, and good design remained at the forefront of planning initiatives.

    Today, however, political competition, exhausted government funds, and an influx of more appealing projects have left the American landscape littered with crumbling roads and bridges that are perpetually in need of repair and desperately outdated. Gridlocked traffic, overcrowded airports, and limited access to train travel has become the norm. Expansions or repairs that manage to get pushed through the system are often quick fixes and lack any architectural sensibility.

    Just as we did almost a century ago, America now stands at a critical juncture as we anticipate the introduction of a new generation of railroads onto our landscape: high-speed trains. Europe and Asia have embraced high-speed rail as the future of inter-city travel, and we are poised to have the same extraordinary opportunity to transform the way American cities connect. Once again, trains are becoming viable solutions for American travelers—but these are not like any trains we have seen before. High-speed trains offer travel times comparable to some airplanes, with speeds reaching 220 miles per hour. With this new mode of rapid transit comes a responsibility to re-examine and reflect upon the way we design and implement transportation and infrastructure systems. Looking back, the past century is filled with examples of infrastructure projects from which we can learn important lessons.

    Consider, for instance, the story of three New York City bridges: the Williamsburg Bridge (1903), the Manhattan Bridge (1909), and the George Washington Bridge (1931). The awkward and starkly utilitarian Williamsburg Bridge, designed by architect Henry Hornbostel and engineer Leffert L. Buck, shows us how unfortunate the results can be when a project is built solely for a functional purpose, with little consideration for design and form.

    The Manhattan Bridge, on the other hand, was designed with McKim, Mead & White as consulting architects and, while undeniably beautiful with its ceremonial entrance and distinctive balconies, serves as an example of what can happen when engineering details are neglected. While visually successful, the Manhattan Bridge has shown its deterioration over the years much more visibly than its neighbors.

    The Depression-era George Washington Bridge, a collaboration between engineer Othmar Ammann and architect Cass Gilbert, demonstrates that a bridge can be both structurally sound and extraordinarily beautiful. Gilbert’s influence is especially seen in the distinctive architectural features of the bridge’s approach. Le Corbusier once declared the George Washington Bridge “the most beautiful bridge in the world.” Still as graceful today, its integration of solid engineering and architectural qualities stands as a testament to careful planning and design-minded leaders.

    Elsewhere during the 1920s and 1930s, the notion of “the bridge as art” captured the attention of builders and government officials. Joseph Strauss, chief engineer of the Golden Gate Bridge (1937) in San Francisco, hired local architect Irving Morrow to design architectural treatments and flourishes for the bridge. The streetlamps, railings, pedestrian walkways, art deco towers—even the burnt red-orange hue—were the artistic vision of Morrow.

    On a much smaller scale, architect Edward H. Bennett’s Michigan Avenue Bridge in Chicago, one of the most visible pieces of infrastructure in the city, unites historically cutting-edge engineering with art and sculpture. Completed in 1920, the bridge was built as part of Daniel Burnham’s 1909 Plan of Chicago, still the preeminent example of integrating urban planning with architectural sensibility.

    Depleted budgets and increased demands for speedy road and bridge expansions and repairs have, in many instances, left today’s infrastructure projects devoid of any aesthetic richness or value. Architects, planners, and engineers should embrace these projects again as highly visible ways to begin rebuilding America’s transportation infrastructure systems.

    A recent and extremely successful project, one that shows the inherent potential for a fresh vision, is the new Interstate 35W bridge in Minneapolis. In August 2007, while undergoing structural repairs, the bridge collapsed during the height of rush hour. Instead of simply replacing the bridge that had once been, which possessed no aesthetic qualities and offered limited river views, the Minnesota Department of Transportation hired FIGG Engineering Group to create a sleek, modern, and high-performance replacement bridge.

    Not only was the new bridge completed three months ahead of schedule (with financial incentives for early completion), but careful thought and consideration were given to the visual impact of the bridge on the cityscape. This new bridge is made of white concrete instead of steel, and curved piers gracefully frame the river. Meanwhile, pedestrians and drivers on adjacent bridges are offered a view of the city uninterrupted by rusted steel trusses. Embedded sensor technology detects even the smallest of problems, meaning that the new bridge serves as both a beautiful piece of infrastructure and a model for other bridge designs.

    The impacts of well-designed infrastructure projects like the I-35W bridge can be felt almost immediately. By contributing to these projects and sharing their ideas and visions, architects, planners, and engineers can become critical members of the planning and engineering teams. Looking ahead to the big picture of American infrastructure, a fully realized high-speed rail system may be years away, but planning has already begun. We have immediate opportunities to become involved in the programming of this initiative, and have the knowledge and insight to support and enable the process, rather than simply watching from the sidelines, or confining our efforts to station design.

    High-speed rail seeks to use existing freight right-of-ways, meaning that grade separation will need to be designed. Raised rail lines and road underpasses will have an enormous impact on the American landscape. This is an opportunity for architects, planners, and engineers to ensure that comprehensive and thoughtful design is incorporated into this new system, establishing high standards and becoming the voice for alternative solutions that beautifully bring together form and function.

    Looking ahead to high-speed rail and the future of American travel, the Midwest, California, and Florida are planning now for upgraded rail lines. European and Asian countries have submitted proposals for rail routes that connect cities across the Midwest. Besides the visual impact of nationwide high-speed rail, determining where these new trains and tracks go will significantly affect the future of our cities, their development and growth, and how communities and local economies are interlinked.

    It is not too late for American architects to join the effort. We can be a voice for issues that might be overlooked in early planning stages, expanding the playing field and positioning ourselves to work with engineers and planners. By articulating the vision of high-speed rail and becoming involved in the process from the beginning, architects can usher in a new generation of train travel and make their mark on the future of American infrastructure.
    Peter Ruggiero

    Peter Ruggiero is a design partner at SOM Chicago.

    Copyright © 2003-2010 | The Architect's Newspaper, LLC.

  9. #39

    Default

    This is the kind of self-serving pap that you'll find in much of the press controlled by architects. Much of what it says is true, but that's also true of any other commercial. The comments about the Williamsburg Bridge are preposterous.

  10. #40
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Tribatteryparka
    Posts
    189

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ZippyTheChimp View Post
    New York builder Robert Moses, for example, proposed plans for a six-lane Central Motor Expressway in 1953 that would run from Manhattan to the Eastern end of Long Island, taking advantage of existing parks and boulevards in Queens. His grand idea for a “romantic drive” through parkland was short-lived; Moses’ vision has become what we know today as the Long Island Expressway.
    Planners initially wanted to widen the LIE at the time of it's building to accommodate a Long Island Rail Road branch down the median. Moses shot it down as "impossible." In reality, he wanted to make sure there was always the possibility in the future to widen it...but for more cars lanes...not rapid transit.

    Moses also rigged the LIE by making sure overpasses didn't have enough clearance for bus heights of the day. No mass transit was going to sully HIS beautiful creation.

  11. #41
    Disgruntled Optimist lofter1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    NYC - Downtown
    Posts
    32,654

    Default

    Well, you know the types that ride mass transport. So did Moses. One good way to keep areas 'exclusive' is to limit access.

  12. #42

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by nycla3 View Post
    Moses also rigged the LIE by making sure overpasses didn't have enough clearance for bus heights of the day. No mass transit was going to sully HIS beautiful creation.
    Are you sure you're not thinking of the Southern State Parkway?
    Last edited by ablarc; September 3rd, 2010 at 02:47 PM.

  13. #43
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Tribatteryparka
    Posts
    189

    Default

    ^Could be...I was citing the Robert Caro book from memory which is a dangerous game to begin with. Thanks.

    From the section in the book on the LIE: "...If Moses wouldn't build rapid transit on the Long Island Expressway, planners pleaded, at least let him build it with lanes for buses. Moses refused even to consider the suggestion...."

    I might have been Jedi mind-tricked into thinking the overpass snafu was the LIE when I reread that passage this morning without going further. It's a big frickin' book.

    Let me pour a bourbon and try and find the right passages.

  14. #44
    Crabby airline hostess - stache's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Nairobi Hilton
    Posts
    8,511

    Default

    Well at least he's dead.

  15. #45
    Chief Antagonist Ninjahedge's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Rutherford
    Posts
    12,773

    Default

    Here's the thing.

    Without him building these roads in the first place, would we have ever had the expanded development of the surrounding burbs to the extent they are now?

    I am not validating the design. I believe they are quite ugly scars cut through vibrant and diverse neighborhoods. The question would be, would any other figure have had the power and push to put ANY form of conduit through the already densely populated boroughs?

    It would have been better, at that time, if they had someone who would have build an inderground set of commuter tubes through these areas (when labor and cost of materials was so much cheaper), but what can you do?



    Back to the original question though. What would NYC have been like w/o these ugly arteries? Would it have grown so readily after the wounds healed?


    (BTW, what is with this Architectural back patting? I think SOM is trying to get its hand into something that it knows will be needed in the future (infrastructure expansion and repair) and that the only way an Architect can do that is by convincing people that everything would be ugly w/o them.)

Page 3 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. The Bank of America Tower a.k.a. One Bryant Park - by Cook + Fox Architects
    By NYguy in forum New York Skyscrapers and Architecture
    Replies: 3813
    Last Post: December 4th, 2014, 10:04 PM
  2. What is the Hatred of America and Americanism?
    By amigo32 in forum News and Politics
    Replies: 105
    Last Post: May 27th, 2009, 08:49 AM
  3. Trouble in Bush's America
    By ZippyTheChimp in forum News and Politics
    Replies: 55
    Last Post: November 24th, 2004, 03:20 AM
  4. Director's Guild of America Tower -110 West 57th Street
    By londonlawyer in forum New York Real Estate
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: July 18th, 2003, 11:37 AM
  5. Europe and America
    By ZippyTheChimp in forum News and Politics
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: March 13th, 2003, 08:48 PM

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  


Google+ - Facebook - Twitter - Meetup

Edward's photos on Flickr - Wired New York on Flickr - In Queens - In Red Hook - Bryant Park - SQL Backup Software