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Thread: Israeli State-Sponsored Terrorism

  1. #61

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jasonik View Post
    Doesn't answer the question.

  2. #62

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    ^It wasn't trying to.

    *****

    Israeli Military Surprised by Relative Lack of Hamas Response
    Two Killed in latest Hamas Firing, But Israel Anticipated Much Larger Response

    Posted December 29, 2008

    An Israeli soldier was killed in a mortar strike on a military base in western Negev today, and a civilian was killed in a strike on the city of Ashdod. A handful of others were also wounded in the attacks from the Gaza Strip. The toll in three days of fire from the strip is at four killed and eight wounded.

    And while the casualties have indeed been a story in the Israeli press, the real issue behind these articles is not how many Israelis have been hit in Hamas strikes, but how few. The Israeli military projected a much larger response to the onslaught it has unleashed on the Gaza Strip, but though Hamas has spoken in hushed tones of a third intifada, its strikes have been shockingly limited.

    No one seems sure why Hamas hasn’t responded in greater force. but the Israeli media is speculating that it is either a tactical decision by Hamas to make the enormous Israel-inflicted toll in the Gaza Strip seem all the more disproportionate or a testament to the success of the military’s killings over the past three days. So far no credence has been given to the other possibility: that Hamas wasn’t nearly the grave threat Israeli intelligence officials made them out to be.

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    compiled by Jason Ditz [email the author]

  3. #63

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    Quote Originally Posted by ZippyTheChimp View Post
    Since you think it's so simple, all we need to know is...who signs the papers, and who among the Palestinians makes it stick.They couldn't even hold a cease-fire. Let me know when you figure it out....
    You can't be serious. The entire world knows that if Israel left the occupied territories and agreed to a Palestinian state with 1967 borders (including a capital in East Jerusalem), peace would occur. The fact is, however, that Israel refuses this basic demand and blocks peace.

    I am disturbed by some American Jews who think that Israel can do no wrong and always is the victim. That is not true. At the moment (as in the past), Israel is perpetrating a Nazi-style holocost. Do you really think that the entire world (outside of the US and Israel) is wrong?

    Lastly, the US is the only entity that can broker peace because it is the only entity that can push Israel to make the concessions that it must. The EU, China and the UN know the concessions that must be made, but Israel will not listen to them.

  4. #64

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    Quote Originally Posted by londonlawyer View Post
    You can't be serious. The entire world knows that if Israel left the occupied territories and agreed to a Palestinian state with 1967 borders (including a capital in East Jerusalem), peace would occur.
    I asked you a simple question. Who signs the papers?

    What do you mean "peace would occur?" It has a life of its own; it just happens?

    You're a lawyer; this should be easy for you. We have a contract. What names go on the dotted line?

  5. #65

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    There was a protest today in my town against Israel. Which is very significant because my town is off any political radar.

    This is an article I read a while back on the BBC:

    Olmert condemns settler 'pogrom'


    Cars and homes were burnt as settlers rampaged after the eviction
    Outgoing Israeli PM Ehud Olmert has compared the violence used by Jewish settlers against Palestinians in Hebron to bygone anti-Semitism in Europe.
    He told Cabinet he was ashamed by recent scenes in the West Bank city, which he said amounted to a pogrom.
    The settlers shot and wounded three Palestinians and set fire to property after Israeli security forces evicted a Jewish group from a disputed building.
    Correspondents say Mr Olmert's use of "pogrom" has particular resonance.
    It is usually associated with the anti-Semitic violence Jewish people experienced in Europe and Russia in the 19th and 20th centuries.
    "As a Jew, I was ashamed at the scenes of Jews opening fire at innocent Arabs in Hebron. There is no other definition than the term 'pogrom' to describe what I have seen," he told Cabinet members, according to public radio.
    "We are the sons of a nation who know what is meant by a pogrom, and I am using the word only after deep reflection."
    Video from an Israeli human rights group showed two settlers shooting Palestinian rock-throwers on Thursday.
    About 600 Jewish settlers live in the city, with several thousand more in surrounding settlements.
    It is not the first time Mr Olmert has used the word to condemn Jewish settlers - in October he described a rampage through a Palestinian village in the West Bank as a pogrom.

  6. #66
    Crabby airline hostess - stache's Avatar
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    Calling them settlers indicates a peaceful existence. They are actually invaders.

  7. #67
    Chief Antagonist Ninjahedge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by londonlawyer View Post
    You can't be serious. The entire world knows that if Israel left the occupied territories and agreed to a Palestinian state with 1967 borders (including a capital in East Jerusalem), peace would occur. The fact is, however, that Israel refuses this basic demand and blocks peace.
    That is never the case. Both sides will push to get what they want.

    Who cares that you get Yonkers and Forest Hills if what you really want is the Empire State Building (West Wall? Or is that the Wailing Wall......).

    The whole of Israel is too religiously and historically significant to expect people to be happy with what they perceive as being less than what the other has. Human nature.

    And some will take it much further than others.

    So no, peace will not just break out if we all go back to 1967. It may mollify the attacks for a while, but once the new equilibrium is reached, conflicts will arise again.


    Edit: Add to it the fact that the "settlers" are still violent and invasive themselves. Why do they need to settle there? If their lines are so far out compared to what they had, why do they want more? It goes both ways. These two adolescents need to be sent to Juvie.

  8. #68

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    Quote Originally Posted by londonlawyer View Post
    Peace is not elusive. If Israel agreed to a Palestinian state with pre-1967 borders, peace would occur tomorrow. However, Israel refuses to give up East Jerusalem and its illegal settlements in the West Bank; therefore, it impedes peace.
    Sounds a little like the deal that was offered to Arafat just before Clinton left office, yet peace did not follow.

  9. #69

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    Quote Originally Posted by ZippyTheChimp View Post
    I asked you a simple question. Who signs the papers?

    What do you mean "peace would occur?" It has a life of its own; it just happens?

    You're a lawyer; this should be easy for you. We have a contract. What names go on the dotted line?
    Mahmoud Abbas is the Palestinian leader. He would sign, together with the soon-to-be Israeli PM, Netanyahu (i.e., war criminal).

    Peace should have happened over 40 years ago, but the Israelis refuse to let it happen and instead choose to victimize the Palestinians. When the Israelis returned land stolen from Egypt, peace occurred between them.

    Hopefully, Obama will not give the Israelis the carte blanche freedom to kill and terrorize Arabs that Republicans give them.

  10. #70

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    Quote Originally Posted by eddhead View Post
    Sounds a little like the deal that was offered to Arafat just before Clinton left office, yet peace did not follow.
    Arafat would have gone for it. However, Barak was playing games. He stated that he would let the Israeli citizens vote for it knowing that they would never cede East Jerusalem and all of the West Bank.

  11. #71

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    Quote Originally Posted by londonlawyer View Post
    Mahmoud Abbas is the Palestinian leader. He would sign, together with the soon-to-be Israeli PM, Netanyahu (i.e., war criminal).
    That's like saying George Bush will sign it. And who in Gaza is going to listen to him? And what does he do about Hamas?

    Peace should have happened over 40 years ago, but the Israelis refuse to let it happen and instead choose to victimize the Palestinians.
    Since you like to go back all the way to the Irgun, here's the original partition plan, which was observed by the Israelis for two decades, and rejected by Palestinians and virtually all Arab states.



    Look familiar?

  12. #72

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    Or look at the original British Mandate, and see how all the land was divided.


  13. #73

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    Zip,

    You're obviously not unbiased on this issue. That's fine, but it does not make a debate reasonable.

    Sadly, the days of moderate Israeli leaders like Rabin are over and peace will be elusive.

  14. #74

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    Give me a break.

    Look at your over-the-top posts and tell me which of us is more unbiased.

    You're grabbing at straws.

  15. #75

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    The 1949 'Green Line' is the third from left.

    Statistics and Tables (about the scope of Israeli settlements in the occupied territories)

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