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Thread: AIG Building - 70 Pine Street - by Clinton & Russell \ Holton & George

  1. #61

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    Just WOW- was an incredibly beautiful skyline view!!

  2. #62

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    The visual impact of 60 Wall really depends on the viewing angle. It's a particularily unpleasant log when viewed from places like the Manhattan Bridge or the Brooklyn Promenade, but less so from most other perspectives, though 1 Chase and the Water Street towers compensate for that "loss" at most other angles.

  3. #63
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    Perhaps it's not having experienced the skyline without it, but 60 Wall is not that offensive to me - it just tells me I'm looking at the Financial District. Kind of like a signpost.

    On topic, I feel 70 Pine is really underappreciated by the public. I hope its bricked up/shaftway/louvered windows are re-opened now.

  4. #64
    Build the Tower Verre antinimby's Avatar
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    Most of the public don't appreciate or even understand architecture anyway.

    To them, anything new and shiny is great while anything old and ornate is...well...old.

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    Really? I'd argue the opposite.

  6. #66
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    Yes, really.

  7. #67
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    I agree that most people don't. You need go no further than tests like this:

    http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/...yscrapers.html

    to know that. The fact that boring/ugly rental buildings fill almost immediately anyway is further proof. Add to the fact that older buildings rent much more cheaply than newer ones, despite any aesthetic advantages is another reason.

  8. #68
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    I wonder why more people don't appreciate architecture? If anyone has any thoughts on this subject, please share - but do not harrumph in cynicism, state "people are dolts," and then move on to another thread to gush about some au courant topic of the architecture scene. The American popular indifference - if not alienation - from the art of architecture is a serious subject, which impairs both the construction and preservation of quality buildings. Attention must be paid!

    So your thoughts, please. Don't be shy. Here's something to chew over: in politics, the worst mistake politicians can make is to blame the voter. Even when the public is wrong (which they are most of the time) they must be understood before a democracy can be led into progress. Maybe the public doesn't care about quality architecture because most of the buildings constructed after 1945 are disposable dreck, and the noteworthy buildings designed and built after WW II are too esoteric for most people to appreciate, much less admire, like, or enjoy. If this is indeed true, than architects themselves need to do a better job of either explaining their work or designing buildings that please the people who use them.

  9. #69
    Fearless Photog RoldanTTLB's Avatar
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    From an American perspective, I don't think there's much appreciate for architecture as part of the larger disregard for the built environment. The idea that we are in control of our own fates (from manifest destiny to common sayings like "guns don't kill people, people kill people" to the belief that fat people are fat solely because of their own actions) sort of down plays it. When designing something to promote walking it's called social engineering. "Liberals are trying to MAKE me walk." As though GM isn't trying to make you drive by promoting road building? This is a common theme. One of the pieces that goes along with it is the belief in a free market it. If X is being built, it means people must have asked for it. Period. That means whatever is being built right now is what people must be asking for. I think all of this ties together strongly to an idea of American Exceptionalism that permeates the society. That's not to downplay other cultures beliefs about themselves, but I suspect there are very few British who think Jesus was British, but give a search for Americans thinking Jesus was American and the results will be eye opening.

    Anyway, to tie this all up, most people feel like they're in complete control of their own choices (not affected by the built environment) but the sad corollary is that these same people feel they have little control over the built environment, so it is what it is. There's a certain slowness to it all. It's why it takes years for new subway stations to ramp up ridership. People are busy with themselves, not the world around them. Also, with the way NY is changing, much of the population here is not from NY (I know I'm not), and most people are coming here for reasons other than the architecture. I think the same could be said of almost any city.

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    That is a very interesting perspective, RoldanTLB. Americans like to think they are the masters of their own fate, but when they are run over by people or corporations with more power and influence, we yield and defer instead of objecting, believing that people with money and power have the same right to master their own fates, regardless of the cost to the community.

    Orwell famously put it like this: "All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others." Here's another old way of saying the same thing: "America is a land of equal opportunity where there is plenty of ice for everybody; it's just that the rich get their ice in the summer and the poor get theirs in the winter." The writer Anatole France observed thusly: "The law, in its majestic equality, forbids the rich and the poor alike to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal bread."
    Last edited by ttk; June 30th, 2011 at 04:24 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RoldanTTLB View Post
    People are busy with themselves, not the world around them.
    This is the crux, in my opinion. For example, if you polled a cross-section of 1,000 New Yorkers (or Americans), showing them photos of the old Penn Station and the new one, and asked them which they preferred, I think a majority (at least 65%) would pick the classic, demolished McKim, Meade, White structure. However, if you took that same 1,000, only about 20 of them (2%) would actively protest/fight Old Penn's demolition. The remaining 600+ who prefer the more beautiful, awe-inspiring structure - despite not being interested or educated in architecture - are simply too busy with the demands, perceived or real, of their own lives that trump architecture - especially, if it doesn't directly affect them (their wallet).

    Environmentalism is in the same boat. Bluefin tuna and great buildings take a back seat. I don't like it, but it seems to be the way of the world.

    Of course, I could be wrong. I remember reading a depressing article about Madagascar - once an ark of biodiversity and now largely de-forested. Western biologists showed photos to local villagers of two landscapes: one was the pristine, primary rainforest - with huge trees and lots of wildlife. The other was of a stripped hillside with a black-smoke-belching refinery. All the villagers picked the refinery as the place they wanted to call home - because it represented America/progress/cell phones/wealth, etc. Built environment for the masses could be the same, for all I know. Maybe they prefer the latest McSam over something like 70 pine because it looks more likely to contain flat screen tvs versus typewriters...
    Last edited by RandySavage; June 30th, 2011 at 10:46 PM.

  12. #72

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    Check out the photos I took from the now abandoned observation deck of this extraordinary building
    http://wirednewyork.com/forum/showth...816#post370816

  13. #73

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    This has long been a favorite NYC building. Is there any significance to the lighting of the tower? It seems to alternate colors sometimes red and sometimes blue.

  14. #74
    NYC Aficionado from Oz Merry's Avatar
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    With all the talk of $88m apartments and such, $205m seems like a piddling sum for such a magnificent building. But I guess appreciation of magnificence in architecture isn't quite what it used to be. And the market doesn't care about its architectural/historical significance either, I suppose .


    Metro Loft closes on purchase of 70 Pine

    A joint venture between Metro Loft Management and Eastbridge Sarl has closed on the acquisition of 70 Pine Street for $205 million, according to public records filed with the city today, and is planning a hotel and residential conversion of the 66-story Art Deco building. Real Estate Weekly said that the building will be transformed into 700 luxury apartments and a high-end hotel, with the conversion slated to be completed in 2013.


    As The Real Deal previously reported, Korea’s Kumho Investment Bank, which first purchased the building along with 72/74 Wall Street, from AIG for $150 million, was facing litigation from a former developer of 70 Pine Street in December, in a battle that could have threatened the scheduled sale of the building.

    Sciame Development filed a $7.7 million suit in state Supreme Court Dec. 19, alleging breach of contract after KIB hired it to take over as developer of the Pine Street project, at the former AIG headquarters, from Youngwoo & Associates, but failed to pay the company millions of dollars after deciding in June to sell the property to a partnership that included Ronnie Bruckner and Metro, which is led by Nathan Berman.

    The status of that suit was not immediately clear.

    http://therealdeal.com/blog/2012/01/...se-of-70-pine/

  15. #75
    NYC Aficionado from Oz Merry's Avatar
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    Fantastic photo of AIG and the Federal Reserve Bank Building .



    http://www.flickr.com/photos/kstrahm...-18964236@N00/


    More beauties:



    http://restlus.blogspot.com.au/2012/...en-lane-2.html

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