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Thread: 401-403 Greenwich St (TriBeCa) - 1st Ever Glass-Brick bldg - by Joseph Pell Lombardi

  1. #16

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    It's a nice bar-restaurant.

  2. #17
    Disgruntled Optimist lofter1's Avatar
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    The rendering in Post 2 it seems to indicate that the existing 1-story corner building next to the glass brick proposal sits on a lot that gave up some air rights to this new one and, given the placement of windows on the new south facade, that something up to 2-stories one day may rise on the corner.

  3. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by ZippyTheChimp View Post
    It's a nice bar-restaurant.
    It could relocate. It's an ugly building in a beautiful area.

  4. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by lofter1 View Post
    The rendering in Post 2 it seems to indicate that the existing 1-story corner building next to the glass brick proposal sits on a lot that gave up some air rights to this new one and, given the placement of windows on the new south facade, that something up to 2-stories one day may rise on the corner.
    Thanks for the information, Lofter.

  5. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by londonlawyer View Post
    It could relocate. It's an ugly building in a beautiful area.
    Relocate where?

    It's popular. Why should it leave the neighborhood? One block away in a ""beautiful hotel building," there existed a pretentious, overblown, overpriced restaurant called Ago.

    And the food was less than mediocre.

    Even the guests at the hotel eventually caught on, and it recently closed down. So now there's a nice building with no restaurant. Great for the neighborhood. but I'm sure the next overblown iteration is just over the horizon.

    How neighborhoods die.

  6. #21

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    As previously, we will agree to disagree.

  7. #22
    Forum Veteran MidtownGuy's Avatar
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    I agree with Zippy, that is how neighborhoods die.

    There is absolutely nothing wrong with that restaurant being there. If it's popular and serves the neighborhood why on Earth would you want it razed? It isn't offensive, just small. What's wrong with some things being small? Not every single corner has to be built up to the sky. Whatever they would build there will almost certainly NOT contain a restaurant. We've seen this over and over again. So, let's just force the popular restaurants out of our neighborhoods and what, let the residents eat ATM receipts?

    Neighborhoods are not just composed of buildings, they're made of businesses and livelihoods and a quality of life. I hope that restaurant remains there for as long as they keep serving good food. Don't just say they could relocate...it shows no understanding of what is happening everywhere in Manhattan regarding restaurants and small businesses. Plus the spaces for them just aren't being created anymore, they're just being demolished.

    As for the new glass block building, I think it's BRILLIANT! I love it. Build it now.
    Last edited by MidtownGuy; May 8th, 2009 at 05:20 PM.

  8. #23
    Crabby airline hostess - stache's Avatar
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    Wink

    But it doesn't look look Disney enough!

  9. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by MidtownGuy View Post
    I agree with Zippy, that is how neighborhoods die.

    There is absolutely nothing wrong with that restaurant being there. If it's popular and serves the neighborhood why on Earth would you want it razed? It isn't offensive, just small. What's wrong with some things being small? Not every single corner has to be built up to the sky. Whatever they would build there will almost certainly NOT contain a restaurant. We've seen this over and over again. So, let's just force the popular restaurants out of our neighborhoods and what, let the residents eat ATM receipts?

    Neighborhoods are not just composed of buildings, they're made of businesses and livelihoods and a quality of life. I hope that restaurant remains there for as long as they keep serving good food. Don't just say they could relocate...it shows no understanding of what is happening everywhere in Manhattan regarding restaurants and small businesses. Plus the spaces for them just aren't being created anymore, they're just being demolished.

    As for the new glass block building, I think it's BRILLIANT! I love it. Build it now.
    Agree with every word. ^

  10. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by MidtownGuy View Post
    I agree with Zippy, that is how neighborhoods die.

    There is absolutely nothing wrong with that restaurant being there. If it's popular and serves the neighborhood why on Earth would you want it razed? It isn't offensive, just small. What's wrong with some things being small? Not every single corner has to be built up to the sky. Whatever they would build there will almost certainly NOT contain a restaurant. We've seen this over and over again. So, let's just force the popular restaurants out of our neighborhoods and what, let the residents eat ATM receipts?

    Neighborhoods are not just composed of buildings, they're made of businesses and livelihoods and a quality of life. I hope that restaurant remains there for as long as they keep serving good food. Don't just say they could relocate...it shows no understanding of what is happening everywhere in Manhattan regarding restaurants and small businesses. Plus the spaces for them just aren't being created anymore, they're just being demolished.

    As for the new glass block building, I think it's BRILLIANT! I love it. Build it now.
    I have no problem with that restaurant being on that corner. I have a problem with that building which could be razed and that restaurant could then relocate to a new building there. If it's a financially viable business that will be around for the long-run, it could afford to do so. If it's not a financially viable business and simply gets by because it has an inexpensive lease that's been in existence for a while, it will fold when it must renew its lease (unless the restaurant owns the building).

    I respect your opinion. You and Zippy have a very New York perspective which is less concerned about aesthetics than about maintaining housing for the middle class and poor, restaurants that offer moderately priced food, etc. That is admirable. However, part of the reason that I vastly prefer London is that the Brits prize aesthetics and raze unattractive, post WWII buildings without worrying that low-end shops will be replaced by expensive ones. I can understand those who disagree with that perspective. I'm simply not one of them. Too much of NY is incredibly ugly and could withstand a makeover. New Yorkers just don't seem to regard that as a priority. Fair enough.

    By the way, I wouldn't even mind the ugly little building so much if it didn't result in the exposure of unattractive walls on the adjoining buildings.

    Last edited by londonlawyer; May 8th, 2009 at 09:46 PM.

  11. #26
    NYC Aficionado from Oz Merry's Avatar
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    Well said, MidtownGuy.

    Quote Originally Posted by MidtownGuy View Post
    As for the new glass block building, I think it's BRILLIANT! I love it. Build it now.
    And I totally agree. I think the design is wonderful.

    Quote Originally Posted by londonlawyer View Post
    ...Too much of NY is incredibly ugly and could withstand a makeover...

    ...By the way, I wouldn't even mind the ugly little building so much if it didn't result in the exposure of unattractive walls on the adjoining buildings.
    Maybe a quick lick of paint for both would help blend them in a bit for now ?? Any volunteers?

  12. #27

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    Windows would do wonders for that exposed party wall --if it's legal.

  13. #28

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    That small building IS ugly in a literal, face-value sense.

    IMHO that cannot be argued.

    But "literal face-value" is often not the best way to judge things asthetically. It lacks sophistication. There is context...history... purpose...

  14. #29

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    If that were a charming 18th or 19th century building, I would want it preserved. However, it appear to have been built post-WWII.

    By contrast, all of the other buildings surrounding the proposed new one are spectacular. The little building detracts from an otherwise beautiful block.

  15. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by ablarc View Post
    Windows would do wonders for that exposed party wall --if it's legal.
    It's legal, as long as it meets structural requirements.

    Quote Originally Posted by londonlawyer View Post
    I have no problem with that restaurant being on that corner. I have a problem with that building which could be razed and that restaurant could then relocate to a new building there.
    Unrealistic. A new building would be expensive, and people moving in would resist any entertainment oriented retail. That's just the way it is, and the reason you get 9-5's like banks and drug stores. Even if a restaurant were allowed, the rent would preclude the one that's there now.

    Yeah, the building is ugly, but you seem to be only concerned about how a city looks, and not with how it functions. An ugly city can function, but if a city doesn't function, it doesn't matter what it looks like.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fabrizio View Post
    But "literal face-value" is often not the best way to judge things asthetically. It lacks sophistication. There is context...history... purpose...
    That's true. It would be nice if everything looked harmonious, but that's often not the real world; so you have to judge what is gained against what is lost. A new building there would certainly improve that corner, but would it have any measurable effect on the all of Tribeca? Replacing another lively place with a Duane Reade might alter it a lot more.

    The expensive restaurants in Tribeca are great; I've been to most of them, and some are quite good. But they don't hold the neighborhood together day to day. How many people know there's a Danube inside that building (actually reopening as a French restaurant), or hang out at Nobu?

    Tribeca isn't elegant, or even architecturally cohesive; it's a polyglot of style that reflects the way the neighborhood developed. In waves - textile industry, manufacturing, produce. None of the buildings in that photo are spectacular; they are sort of crappy, and they exist throughout the neighborhood. If anything has destroyed the appearance of the area, look across the street to Citicorp.

    Back when it was Washington Market, the neighborhood was full of people, but they were workers, not residents. They sustained a lot of unique establishments. Places like Magoo's, where a starving artist could pay off a bar tab by giving the owner some artwork. Great onion soup. Or Suerkens. These places survived the worker exodus, and found new life among residents. Now that the neighborhood has filled up and they're needed, high rents and a mad rush to develop have forced many to shut down.

    http://www.downtownexpress.com/de_263/franklincafe.html

    http://vanishingnewyork.blogspot.com...of-delphi.html

    It's not like there's no place left to build. There are still many parking lots in the area, some on prime corners.

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