London.

[Codex]

The best thing London & Paris have going for them is the fact that they could soon be less than 2 hours away from each other by train. From January 2010, the Channel Tunnel is to be opened up to numerous operators rather than just Eurostar, with some operates pledging to significantly cut journey times and others planning new train routes such as direct links between London and German cities such as Frankfurt and even Berlin.

Travel between London and Paris is now becoming so easy fast and frequent, that the two cities are becoming virtual suburbs of each other.

Brussels is even closer to London, and could be a mere 1 hour 30 minutes if the proposed new trains come in to operation.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/tr...two-hours.html

http://business.timesonline.co.uk/to...cle6307749.ece

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/8353277.stm

[zupermaus]

^gorgeous!

I think this can be fairly said of NYC in 2009 as well. Of course there are a few rough neighborhods...but I can hop on the subway and get off somewhere in Queens, or Brooklyn or the Bronx, to find utterly stimulating and safe neighborhoods. Racially diverse, full of various cultures, etc. You'll find charming architecture throughout the boroughs as well as neighborhoods bursting with flavor.

I don't know if you've ever gotten off the R train on Steinway in Queens and walked through Astoria...but if you do, you will find a mind boggling mix of people, cultures, stores, and structures. Ditto dozens of other neighborhoods across the city. Jackson Heights (Little India), Little Morocco, Flushing (NYC's second Chinatown, exploding with Asian culture)...Brownstone Brooklyn, the Russian neighborhoods along the sea... it's simply endless. I was in Washington Heights yesterday...nice architecture and sizzling hot Latino culture.

The thing that makes me sad is that so many European tourists insufficiently explore these areas, they only see the core (Manhattan). This is partially because of a lack of time. After all, Manhattan is a huge bite to chew on in a week or so..and if they do venture to other boroughs, it was a stroll down 1 avenue or two and then back on the subway to Manhattan, so it's hit or miss whether they actually saw the good stuff. NYC is just so huge, dense, and safe at the same time.

I'm sorry for being long winded but I hope I can inspire our European friends to broaden and update their idea of New York City beyond the reputation of skyscraper island surrounded by a ring of crime-ridden urban jungle.

Yep totally agree, London suffers the same problem - tourists stay in the West End where the mass commericalism and history is, whilst few venture into the East End where the urban vibe is. Many European tourists visit not for the history (they have that in spades at home), but for the cutting edge and the 'cool' moniker, yet are faced with horribly dated places meant to be 'on the scene' according to 10 year old guidebooks, eg Camden Market (populated now exclusively by tourists and out of towners trapped in 1990s cyberpunk/ gothdom), Ministry of Sound (so very commercial), Heaven (so, so bad, only the severely out-of-touch end up there), Fabric (out-of-towners, soon to be closed), Notting Hill (over gentrified and staid), Spitalfields Market (now a middle class, middle England nirvana).

The best places are now almost exclusively in the East End from anything goes Dalston (taking over from gentrifying Whitechapel, Hoxton and Islington, which are massive nightlife areas now), to London's former most crime ridden area, Hackney, now the new epicentre for artists, more than anywhere else in the world it's said. Walk a few metres from posh Spitalfields, full of tourists, and youll find where all the freaks have been hanging, Brick Lane Market, full of Londoners and streetstyle, yet so few make that connection.

[Codex]

Yep totally agree, London suffers the same problem - tourists stay in the West End where the mass commericalism and history is, whilst few venture into the East End where the urban vibe is. Many European tourists visit not for the history (they have that in spades at home), but for the cutting edge and the 'cool' moniker, yet are faced with horribly dated places meant to be 'on the scene' according to 10 year old guidebooks, eg Camden Market (populated now exclusively by tourists and out of towners trapped in 1990s cyberpunk/ gothdom), Ministry of Sound (so very commercial), Heaven (so, so bad, only the severely out-of-touch end up there), Fabric (out-of-towners, soon to be closed), Notting Hill (over gentrified and staid), Spitalfields Market (now a middle class, middle England nirvana).

The best places are now almost exclusively in the East End from anything goes Dalston (taking over from gentrifying Whitechapel, Hoxton and Islington, which are massive nightlife areas now), to London's former most crime ridden area, Hackney, now the new epicentre for artists, more than anywhere else in the world it's said. Walk a few metres from posh Spitalfields, full of tourists, and youll find where all the freaks have been hanging, Brick Lane Market, full of Londoners and streetstyle, yet so few make that connection.

London is increasingly looking East, with the Olympics at Stratford, Canary Wharf, the O2, ExCel Centre, Thames Gateway and as you have mentioned the increasing gentrification of areas such as Hoxton and Whitechapel. It is only through improvements to areas and some degree of gentrification that tourism can be encouraged.

http://www.lda.gov.uk/server.php?show=ConWebDoc.3027

http://www.visiteastlondon.com/

http://www.abc.net.au/arts/stories/s2733933.htm

http://www.excel-london.co.uk/visitors/afterhours

The new London International Convention Centre, an extension of the already succesful ExCel Centre will help to attract people to the East of London.

Pics - http://www.excel-london.co.uk/module...d=62&style=icc

ExCel is already home to such events as the British International Motor Show and London Boat Show, whilst the O2 has become globally famous as a concert venue, and was to be the venue of the final Michael Jackson Concerts.

ExCel is also planning to open a large casino and numerous luxury hotels are springing up around the area -

http://business.timesonline.co.uk/to...cle5439269.ece

Finally in terms of nightlife, the West End is overpriced, however you are not going to get many wealthy tourists wanting to go east, as they would rather be at the celebrity haunts in the West End. I am fairly sure that China White or other such venues are not your idea of a good night out, but then again the East End may not be their ideas of a good night. London has a diverse nightlife, and although the East End may attract the more alternative scene, the West End with it's bright lights big city appeal is always going to be the choice of venue for many .

[londonlawyer]

I don't understand why some New Yorkers can't admit that London, from an aesthetic perspective, clobbers NY. These are typical London streets. Walk through Central London, and block after block for miles looks like this.







NYC used to look like this (the overwhelming number of buildings in London were developed in the 19th and 20th Centuries), and fortunately, many many areas of pre-WWII buildings remain. More importantly, Londoners take pride in their property. Schlocky blocks like the ones that I post regularly are redeveloped in London and with great projects -- not bland boxes like Zuckerman, et al build. Moreover, such drek is far less common in London than in NY.

[scumonkey]

[MidtownGuy]

Those streets are very pretty and neat... in a cohesive, monotonous way. Yes it's nice to have that type of thing in a few neighborhoods but I wouldn't trade miles and miles of dramatic canyons (lined with structures from every era) for miles and miles of that.

Personally, I wouldn't ever want to trade the diverse, soaring canyons of NY.
Such amazing diversity on a dramatic scale replicated nowhere. Soho's cast iron buildings, elegant townhomes of the Upper East Side, soaring terra cotta masterpieces downtown, charming row houses in the village, the wealth of art deco, the stately buildings along Riverside or Central Park (San Remo and friends, hello?), the variety is just endless.

London is great, but it's not more beautiful than New York. No city is. We have it all here. The drama and variety is unsurpassed.

[Alonzo-ny]

Alright guys. I'm drawing a line. This thread was opened to be a positive showcase of London. The rest of this discussion can be continued here.

I hope the discussion continues there because I always love to compare my two favourite cities. Though contribution like [/broken record] adds nothing and is pointless in a discussion.

[londonlawyer]

....
London is great, but it's not more beautiful than New York. No city is. We have it all here. The drama and variety is unsurpassed.

That's fair enough. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

[Alonzo-ny]

Shoreditch by Captured City on SSC

[Alonzo-ny]

[Alonzo-ny]

Some more from Flickr:

[Alonzo-ny]

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[Alonzo-ny]