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Thread: Amanda Knox gets 26 Years

  1. #1501
    Chief Antagonist Ninjahedge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dougm View Post
    Not following you. If they are guilty, 2 and a half years is enough? For murder?
    Subtle difference, but vital.

    Is the purpose of a punishment to "pay the piper" or to discourage any similar or repeat offense?

    If it is the former, they still owe quite a bit (if it was indeed them). If the latter, it has already been proven that they COULD be convicted on very little actual evidence. The message has been sent to many, that even if there is nothing pointing strait at you, there are ways for those in charge to bend the fingers to a more "desirable" destination.



    The whole thing is a sham. 9lbs is NOTHING. It is a shot put! People hurl those things quite a bit further when needed. Hell, maybe they should have gotten a bunch of similarly built men to go out there and throw rocks around to see if they could indeed do what was needed.

    Also, what about the trajectory? This is a big rock, did it go through the window and just float? Did it hit the bed? The wall? The ground? What marks were left.

    DNA? The discrepancy between the amounts of DNA left by one and the other is daunting. For something so emotional and spontaneous, to be that meticulous about one persons trace evidence and not the other is crazy. Was she wearing rubber gloves and a hair net?

    Also, where are the other knives that actually fit the stab wounds? Whose DNA were on them? Did they take turns round-robin or did Amanda play ambidextrous rogue and hit her with one in each hand?

    As for behavior, a person coming in in a T-shirt or a dress does not change who they are and what they did. Seeing a murderer in a suit just makes me sick, and to think that that kind of presentation matters so much is just plan sad.

    What all of this comes down to is simple. Whether they did it or not, the police screwed up the investigation. None of the evidence is a clincher, and there are too many loose ends that require too many contingencies and allowances to reconcile.

    You should NOT convict someone because one of MANY POSSIBLE SCENARIOS points the finger at them. That, at most, designates a SUSPECT, not a PERPETRATOR.

    If you have another viable scenario, then you cannot convict someone just because you "feel" like one is more likely than the other. There has to be proof of one or refutation of all others.

    This is just peacocking.

  2. #1502

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    ^^

    The Idaho Innocence Project was sourced through friends and family in Italy?

    Her defense attorney would more likely find experts, people that he has worked with in the past, or who have reputations within the local juristiction.

    I am not casting aspersions on the Idaho group. Just suggesting that they have less credibility in court than local experts will.
    Last edited by eddhead; May 26th, 2011 at 02:51 PM.

  3. #1503

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    Quote Originally Posted by eddhead View Post
    ^^

    The Idaho Innocence Project was sourced through friends and family in Italy?

    Her defense attorney would more likely find experts, people that he has worked with in the past, or who have reputations within the local juristiction.

    I am not casting aspersions on the Idaho group. Just suggesting that they have less credibility in court than local experts will.
    NO. The point is, if I was charged in a foreign country, I would try to find experts in that country, but it would be much easier for me (and my family, who still lives in my home country and does not speak Italian) to find people in my home country that can explain to me what points to challenge. Especially when the local "experts" in Perugia appear to all work for the police, or are afraid to challenge what the police experts say.

    I was just saying it is not so unusual for the Knox family to get help from an expert based in the US.

  4. #1504
    Chief Antagonist Ninjahedge's Avatar
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    Discounting an imported expert because of a gross geographical position is very low.

    Unless you are talking about ones in, say, Guam or some other Doonesbury-like spoof location.

    If all they have against these guys is Potatoes they should be flayed and stuck on a stake for all the lack of actual meat they have on their bones.

  5. #1505

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ninjahedge View Post

    The whole thing is a sham. 9lbs is NOTHING. It is a shot put! People hurl those things quite a bit further when needed. Hell, maybe they should have gotten a bunch of similarly built men to go out there and throw rocks around to see if they could indeed do what was needed.

    Also, what about the trajectory? This is a big rock, did it go through the window and just float? Did it hit the bed? The wall? The ground? What marks were left.
    There was a fresh dent in the inside shutter that appears to be where the rock hit, and it ended up in a bag of clothes, which tipped over onto the floor. The rock had some chips off of it where it was found on the ground, partially sticking out of the top of the bag.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ninjahedge View Post

    DNA? The discrepancy between the amounts of DNA left by one and the other is daunting. For something so emotional and spontaneous, to be that meticulous about one persons trace evidence and not the other is crazy. Was she wearing rubber gloves and a hair net?
    It really is not possible to have cleaned up two people's DNA and left another's. The lack of AK and RS physical evidence in the murder room either means they were not there, of if they were there, stayed a distance from the killing, which makes no sense.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ninjahedge View Post

    Also, where are the other knives that actually fit the stab wounds? Whose DNA were on them? Did they take turns round-robin or did Amanda play ambidextrous rogue and hit her with one in each hand?
    No other knives were found that are claimed to be part of the murder. There were 3 wound areas in the victim's neck, and all experts agree that the knife from Sollecito's apartment could not have made the first 2 -- it is way too large. That knife also does not match the bloody knife imprint left on the victim's bed sheets. The defense experts that testified said that the knife could not have made any of the wounds, and a smaller knife is likely to have made them all. The prosecution brought an expert that claimed the larger knife could have made the third wound.

  6. #1506

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    Quote Originally Posted by dougm View Post
    NO. The point is, if I was charged in a foreign country, I would try to find experts in that country, but it would be much easier for me (and my family, who still lives in my home country and does not speak Italian) to find people in my home country that can explain to me what points to challenge. I was just saying it is not so unusual for the Knox family to get help from an expert based in the US.
    My point is that if you were charged with a crime in another country, you would not rely upon yourself, your friends, or your family with finding experts. You would rely upon your lawyer who would likely rely on someone local.

  7. #1507

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ninjahedge View Post
    Discounting an imported expert because of a gross geographical position is very low.

    Unless you are talking about ones in, say, Guam or some other Doonesbury-like spoof location.

    If all they have against these guys is Potatoes they should be flayed and stuck on a stake for all the lack of actual meat they have on their bones.
    Yeah, we covered this awhile back. The key point is what information the expert has and his credentials to make it, and if anyone agrees. Not his office location.

    Allthough I must admit, at this point if I had to rely on an expert from Guam or from Perugia, Italy, I think I would roll the dice with Guam.

  8. #1508

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ninjahedge View Post
    Discounting an imported expert because of a gross geographical position is very low.

    Unless you are talking about ones in, say, Guam or some other Doonesbury-like spoof location.

    If all they have against these guys is Potatoes they should be flayed and stuck on a stake for all the lack of actual meat they have on their bones.
    I am not sure I agree with that. I think an American jury might have a difficult time accepting testimony from an Italian Lab on a case involving an Italian defendant. Sorry, but I believe a US expert-witness would carry more weight, and I am of the opinion that a defense attorney would be aware of that sensitivity and act accordindly.

  9. #1509

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    Quote Originally Posted by eddhead View Post
    I am not sure I agree with that. I think an American jury might have a difficult time accepting testimony from an Italian Lab on a case involving an Italian defendant. Sorry, but I believe a US expert-witness would carry more weight, and I am of the opinion that a defense attorney would be aware of that sensitivity and act accordindly.
    I think this discussion point has gotten off track a bit. Amanda's defense lawyers are Italian, and they do have Italian experts both advising and testifying on her behalf. The DNA expert from the US is just consulting with them, and will likely not testify, for the reasons everyone has stated -- the court will probably not only not give the testimony of an expert from outside Italy that much weight, but they may be offended. It is just consultation.

  10. #1510

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    New development, from legit sources, no less.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/...uBH_story.html

    This seems significant to me. Any thoughts, Fabrizio? You could tell us how this looks from the Italian side.

  11. #1511

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    Rocco Girlanda wrote a book about AK and heads the italian -US foundation. Maybe Fabrizio and us could join and then we could all be friends

  12. #1512

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    ^ I mentioned this stuff at the very beginning of this thread. And have hinted since... but to really delve into it takes time and willing listeners. I tried to discuss the issue of biased, power hungry magistrates in the Berlusconi thread: impossible. Have you noticed I have not come to the defense of Mignini here? (except for posting an article by Andrea Vogt that cleared up the BS about his conviction.) The problem is general and the hand-slap he got in Florence (by another magistrate) is truly not important. It is believe me a technicality.

    I don't have time now, but the key for Knox if she wants to be home tomorrow is through the PM. Even if she is guilty.

    Berlusconi has tried to recontruct the judicial system here... but the other ex-communists and die-hard lefties will have none of it. "Berlusconi is only doing it for his interests". Well, believe it or not those interests are also in the interest of most other Italians. The Migninis of Italy are far above the law. The Berlusconis are too... but the Migninis are in the statosphere.
    Last edited by Fabrizio; May 26th, 2011 at 04:39 PM.

  13. #1513

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    Seriously politically it is the Berlusconi party throwing a swat at the judicial system (they no like). It seems like the judiciary is just another political football or something.
    I also think Rocco thinks she is innocent. Why else would you meet with someone multiple times if you really thought they were a guilty murderer.

  14. #1514

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fabrizio View Post
    ^ I mentioned this stuff at the very beginning of this thread. And have hinted since... but to really delve into it takes time and willing listeners. I tried to discuss the issue of biased, power hungry magistrates in the Berlusconi thread: impossible. Have you noticed I have not come to the defense of Mignini here? (except for posting an article by Andrea Vogt that cleared up the BS about his conviction.) The problem is general and the hand-slap he got in Florence (by another magistrate) is truly not important. It is believe me a technicality.

    I don't have time now, but the key for Knox if she wants to be home tomorrow is through the PM. Even if she is guilty.

    Berlusconi has tried to recontruct the judicial system here... but the other ex-communists and die-hard lefties will have none of it. "Berlusconi is only doing it for his interests". Well, believe it or not those interests are also in the interest of most other Italians. The Migninis of Italy are far above the law. The Berlusconis are too... but the Migninis are in the statosphere.
    I assumed there was a political context. I think that those of us that live in the U.S. expect that when things hit the press, there can be a groundswell of questions being answered, even by unelected officials. However, I don't want to apply that model to Italy. I can only assume that anyone in Italy making public comment about the case would have more impact than anyone in the US doing it.

  15. #1515

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fabrizio View Post
    ^ I mentioned this stuff at the very beginning of this thread. And have hinted since... but to really delve into it takes time and willing listeners. I tried to discuss the issue of biased, power hungry magistrates in the Berlusconi thread: impossible. Have you noticed I have not come to the defense of Mignini here? (except for posting an article by Andrea Vogt that cleared up the BS about his conviction.) The problem is general and the hand-slap he got in Florence (by another magistrate) is truly not important. It is believe me a technicality.

    I don't have time now, but the key for Knox if she wants to be home tomorrow is through the PM. Even if she is guilty.

    Berlusconi has tried to recontruct the judicial system here... but the other ex-communists and die-hard lefties will have none of it. "Berlusconi is only doing it for his interests". Well, believe it or not those interests are also in the interest of most other Italians. The Migninis of Italy are far above the law. The Berlusconis are too... but the Migninis are in the statosphere.
    BTW -- I understand that you don't have to defend Mignini to think that Amanda is guilty. In the same way that people don't have to like everything Amanda has ever done to think she is innocent.

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